The cruelty of Steve Jobs and Elon Musk | Walter Isaacson and Lex Fridman

Lex Fridman Podcast full episode: • Walter Isaacson: Elon ...
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Walter Isaacson is an author of biographies on Elon Musk, Steve Jobs, Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Leonardo da Vinci, and many others.
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[@LexClips]

Full podcast episode: kzbin.info/www/bejne/l3iyh2iIbLJkgNU Lex Fridman podcast channel: kzbin.info Guest bio: Walter Isaacson is an author of biographies on Elon Musk, Steve Jobs, Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Leonardo da Vinci, and many others.

[@landomarkoba4944]

It's better if we let humans live their own lives and not draining their human energy cause if we harvest drain human energy via technology or satellite just so we can benefit from it making AI, does it profit humans when all we do is steal human energy harvesting it, can you think that it has bad effect on human health, we're is the kindness in our society, greed fame power control is all we think of, we need to stop stealing harvesting human energy just so we can make AI via Human Energy, what if someone drains their family's energy what would this rich politician would feel? That their own family has having bad health because someone is harvesting their family's human energy. Don't do unto others what you don't want others to do unto you. God doesn't steal nor take advantage on humans, God created us for us to live peacefully and not to steal or not to plan evil towards humanity. There is no love in this game, all you want is AI, if no humans, they cant make an AI anymore cause there is no source to get human energy, Can we leave humanity alone and not being rich by stealing human energy.

[@downkoadRumble]

90% of CEOs are psychopaths so are 100% of politicians, and 80% of all cops

[@thelastaustralian7583]

The Human Species is being dominated and controlled by subconscious forces ....

[@woolfel]

I've done my fair share of "hardcore" coding when I was younger and honestly it's BS. Coding late at night doesn't produce great code, it usually produces more crap than quality. When I was young, I bought into that myth and didn't know any better. Are there people that only need 2 hours of sleep a nite? Probably, but they aren't the norm. I've worked with plenty of software engineers that consider themselves hardcore, worked 12 hour days for months on end. The code the produced was an ugly pile and convoluted.

[@Cafeston]

I knew a person whose entourage boasted that he only needed to sleep 4 hours a night. He barely made it to his 60s. Is there a causality? I don't know. Did i stop buying into the superhuman bs? Definitely.

[@danpirau3969]

Your vision was probably lacking hardcore. Same with those hardcore software engineers.

[@wilsongo6133]

​@@danpirau3969yes, I think he missed the point. I got my friend that code well, produce the right outputs. But, he seem so angry at the point of rage with his code, and rewrite the entire thing. I think, another word for it is obsession with code. Not just the amount of hour you put in.

[@dannywithnuggets]

Just work harder and stop complaining

[@downkoadRumble]

90% of CEOs are psychopaths so are 100% of politicians, and 80% of all cops

[@ronobrien7187]

I work in the construction industry. It can be high pressure intensity when there is lives and large sums of money at stake. Things get heated when you have a group of earnest, talented, motivated people working together in those situations. The mature, rational adults in the group understand that it's just the job. Most typically you go out together for a couple of beers, as friends and work out the details of the day's events to come to better solutions. Through that process we all gain more respect for one another. Working in a no pressure, sensitivity-based environment, at best affords no opportunity for improvement and at worst fosters resentments which are never resolved, which leads to decay of morale.

[@lancejones4636]

When you are passionate about something - truly passionate - hardcore comes easy. The hours fly by. It is rewarding and tiring. Many people never experience this. I feel lucky to feel this way. I’m hardcore and 56 years old.

[@user-zy3zd3sx2d]

It's the people around hard core alphas that grow weary of them. That's putting it mildly.

[@alanlight7740]

I don't think it's healthy for most people or for society for the majority of people to be hardcore - except perhaps in their teens and twenties. But for a few people it's what makes them feel alive, and society benefits greatly from it. We would be wise to harness that energy rather than waste it.

[@10handz]

This is such an interesting segment. Touches on the different "camps" that are at the core of every entrepreneurial business I've been part of, across ages, different types of leaders, Just wish they made more conversation about the difference between hardcore/honesty/urgency vs. real cruelty and crossing personal/emotional line

[@geemolegeorge3815]

Its so interesting that you mentioned the nuances of such behaviour 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼

[@wishingwell1000]

urgency is a great point to mention

[@MrApw2011]

As an entrepreneur, I find that the young engineers I hire do this automatically. They are all uniformed, wanting to learn, willing to put in massive amounts of work but they are also honing their talents. I have experienced engineers who are skilled, competent, caring, produce excellence and help guide the younger guys but won't be playing video games after work hours. I don't see why a business leader would focus so intently on one or the other. I can't get my young guys to go home in a reasonable time and I can't keep my older guys focused unless there's a crisis so it seems like this idea is just about ego and thinking you're making a difference when all you're really doing is firing experience or ambition.

[@messiGrd]

It's Great to be hardcore when you're the owner of the company. Otherwise you will burn out at 27 or 28.

[@anon2034]

This.

[@gavinmc5285]

great to be hardcore at 19 - 22 then

[@AnonYmous-be9vw]

Warning for the "up at 2 am hardcore* types out there: you will burn out, and there's almost never a job out there that's worth more than your time with your friends and family, basic necessities aside. Working at Twitter would've sounded fun until I was about 25.

[@arnavrawat9864]

I believe it's the CEO personality phenomena. People like that are disagreeable, machiavellian by nature. They are brutal not because it's needed, but because they feel like it, they want that one sided selfish operation. It's personality based.

[@alanlight7740]

For some the brutality is gratuitous, but sometimes brutality is required. And sometimes, to get the brutality when it's required, it's necessary to put up with people who are a bit too gratuitous with it. Because the nice guys can't just turn on the brutality when it's needed.

[@arnavrawat9864]

@@alanlight7740 Sure. That's the way it's done usually. Doesn't mean its the only way that can exist, but it is a way.

[@Kratoseum]

As long as the "hardcore" investment of the employees in the company is mutual and so given back by the company in "hardcore" pay and or shares, thats absolutely fine.

[@mikebarnacle1469]

Ya funny how everyone forgets to mention the comp side of it.

[@Brandon-youtube]

@@mikebarnacle1469 good comp shouldn't enable cruelty. You can be hardcore and direct without being cruel.

[@dudermcdudeface3674]

The "mean gets things done" idea is a total myth. _Assertiveness_ gets things done, and anything past that is just self-aggrandizing noise and heat that people put up with because they're more responsible than the offender. Replace an aggressive leader with an equally capable assertive one, and every single thing you can measure (and quite a lot you can't) improves drastically in a short time. In Elon's case though, "equally capable" would be an impractically tall order, so people will put up with him for the sake of the mission. But don't pretend his flaws are a feature; they're not.

[@samuellourencojacob4358]

This is the absolute truth.

[@zarmindrow5831]

Truth. Now here's your cookie and back to bed you go.

[@dudermcdudeface3674]

@@zarmindrow5831 Nice, one of those "truth-telling is childish" comments. You sound like a very successful and well-adjusted person.

[@zarmindrow5831]

Hey, just giving you props for using assertiveness in a sentence. It must have been on mama's vocabulary list for the day. @@dudermcdudeface3674

[@dudermcdudeface3674]

@@SwampCritter-df4od A great example would be George Washington. People were just gobsmacked by his ability to accept criticism. And not after some ego-driven twilight struggle where he would finally concede, but as soon as the weight of evidence was there. Even if it sometimes made him look tactically capricious. Putting on my amateur shrink hat, I don't think Elon's resistance to criticism is so much ego-driven as an OCD thing. Like he may be so plugged in to an idea that it's hard to see outside of it for a while.

[@mitchellblair3935]

I wonder if CEOs were only guaranteed the median salary at their company instead of millions in stock options if they would work hardcore…

[@MindfulPersonalGrowthop]

Oh they’d turn into immediate slackers and get confused at the mere thought of ‘hardcore’

[@Wittgenstein.]

Believe it or not but CEOs usually get paid that much because shareholders find them to create more value than any moron earning median salary

[@Calidastas]

I’m fine with working hardcore if the pay is hardcore also. The problem I have with people like musk (and maybe jobs, idk) is that bosses that create this atmosphere are usually just trying to steal people’s time. The workers are almost always wage slaves with (at most) a few months cushion saved and the young ones frequently less than that. Maybe with a few year’s experience they have a full year cushion. So, they have limited bargaining power unless they want to go through the pain of changing jobs (and possibly moving, disrupting their lives, etc.). So yeah, of course the owners want an atmosphere of “hardcore”. In America we’ve also created the concept of the white collar worker - which is just code for we’re going to tell you you’re smart and privileged and then expect you to work what would be considered overtime for free. And then we’re going to lobby congress to increase immigration for coders etc to depress wages. Net net the wealth gap in America is insane because capital has won the war that labor was too stupid to even know they were fighting. People are being massively taken advantage of, all while being told they should be grateful and you should work like hell to make me rich because one day you might get a few shares yourself. If we had any sense we’d go full Genghis Kahn on the top 1/10th of 1%.

[@mattcargile]

It’s about being part of something bigger than yourself and building something that would change the world. Could you imagine being on that first iPod team or powershell team or windows 95?

[@Calidastas]

@@mattcargile idgaf about that unless I’m being paid. This “ra ra we’re changing the world” BS is just another management motivation game. Go watch an Enron Employee Meeting - they’re trumpeting on about changing the world while they’re busy defrauding their investors and employees. The problem with people is that they’re by in large good natured and gullible af. So stealing from all you doughy eyed fawns is like shooting fish in a barrel. Give me a good salary and a nice slice of equity and then I’ll think about joining your crusade. Everything but cash and equity is straight bs.

[@riley_oneill]

@@mattcargile The people on those teams were exceptionally well paid though. They were under a lot of pressure in a difficult environment but between pay and stock did very, very well. There are plenty of employers who expect hardcore work, 100% effort all times, bust ass, risk debilitating injuries on the job, humiliate their workers regularly, and then pay slightly more than minimum wage. For his faults, Steve Jobs worked with people who became exceptionally wealthy at Apple. Some people think that carries over to minimum wage level work when it does not.

[@r2com641]

@@mattcargilethe last thing I give shit about is “changing the world” the idiotic statement and desire of narcissists. I want proper pay for my professional work, I’m not going to work more than 40 hours a week for some asshole

[@mattcargile]

@@r2com641 different strokes. You can change the greater world or your own personal world or a child’s world.

[@elisabethrasmussen9232]

I read the Steve Jobs biography by Walter Isaacson years ago and loved all the in depth fine details

[@rudivanrooijen7611]

Fact is people differ. To get people to reach their potential some need a pat on the back and others need a kick in the butt. The cruelty by people in charge often comes from an inability to deal with such a multitude of personalities.

[@jenniferhoffman5100]

The oligarchs aren’t subject to the same forces their employees are. Their Psychological safety comes from their social and financial padding. They have no clue how their serfs have to deal with societal structures that they themselves are not even aware of. The ultimate arrogance, and we’re still making gods of these men.

[@wintercame]

Bingo!

[@Avenus112]

Oligarchs are appointed to industry by government. The private sector appoints people itself. Therefore, thry are not oligarchs. Their employees are not serfs, they do not live in feudal empires, they are staff who lease their time at the equilibrium price of supply and demand. Your narrative has no relationship with reality and only portrays your tall poppy syndrome.

[@jamesfrancese6091]

@@Avenus112 They were using a metaphor

[@besmart2350]

I think they insecure. Have an arrogant facade but deep inside very insecure, insecure to lose everything or be mocked

[@abcd123906]

A version of hard core (which I think strikes a reasonable balance between working hard and having a life outside of work, and which, admittedly, is probably still not as hard core as what the Elon Musks of the world would find satisfactory) is the idea that: you work only during normal work hours, *but* you work at an extremely high intensity *during* those hours and are highly efficient. You also don't waste time, don't goof off, and you self-impose a sense of urgency that whatever work must get done has to be done during those hours. It's surprising *how much* you can get done in an 8 hour day if you are *actually* working all of those 8 hours. *8 real hours* of work is actually a lot of work!!

[@oliviaglass3843]

Unless they force you to these unproductive endless meetings….😂

[@abcd123906]

@@oliviaglass3843 100% agree. Actually, I think your addition to what I've said is a necessary one, because 8 hours interrupted by even 1-2 hrs (let alone 3 or more) of unproductive meeting time also makes the "work hard, play hard" "pact" impossible.

[@Khawalidmi]

You can be honest without being cruel. I think people conflate these two. Instead of saying "This is the stupidest idea I have ever seen". You could say "Although this idea is interesting I think it won't work for a such and such reason, could you come up with a new idea by tomorrow." It will have a better effect on the person and you will get better result. I think this phenomenon of romanticizing cruelty is due to nerds never learning how to talk to people and being empathetic. So they want to justify not caring about people's feeling.

[@pho3nix-]

There's also a sense of entitlement to it, not just lack of empathy once someone becomes a millionaire (even if they grew up poor). If you have money it's much easier to be brutally honest and an asshole, it wont affect you.

[@socrattt]

You can always be kind, but if you sugarcoat the truth, the other person may not realize how truly bad their idea is. Most people cannot handle the truth, no matter how kindly you say it. With them, you have to tell them the truth slowly, in stages, over a long period of time. Top performers can handle ugly truths. Kindness is also best of course, but if you want the truth to not hurt, then what you probably want is a lie. There is no simple path. Delivering hard truths is also a nuanced process. Some people are too harsh, and some are too soft. Some find a balance, but it takes time to adapt to each person and environment.

[@sandyx7381]

You're wrong. As the founder you need to give plain blunt feedback. Else team will take you for granted

[@Dggb2345]

Go watch kitchen nightmares with Gordon Ramsey. It’s kind to say “Are you out of your fucking mind? “ when someone serves undercooked chicken and then mumbles some pitiful excuse.

[@cmc2110]

Some people need a deeper push, being nice doesn’t push you over the fence. Hardship makes us greater, people need pain to excel

[@grownmantravels]

I read Walter’s book on SJ during my honeymoon…..incredible biography….I’m now divorced

[@mr.goldenproductions_0143]

Lol maybe you should have been more of a dick to your wife

[@downkoadRumble]

90% of CEOs are psychopaths so are 100% of politicians, and 80% of all cops

[@sitanshurai892]

😂😂

[@janelleg597]

Jez

[@YoYo-gt5iq]

Jobs had a daughter who he denied while naming a computer the same name. That's about all I need to know about him.

[@vaska1999]

😮

[@rife133]

Who cares. You're probably writing this on your iphone, which HE created. Everyone knows his name and his work. No one knows who you are and no one cares about your opinion.

[@smartbart80]

I don’t think Elon was ever a working class kid, right? Not that it matters but just to be fair to the analogy.

[@Pezzerd]

I think was in reference to Jobs

[@minneminsken4995]

Elon Musk is a son of a millionaire. So are Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg. The only one that came out of the blue is Jan Com, the inventor of WhatApp. He had done it all by himself. He is the real genius among all this shit.

[@rmarysimmons8661]

Mai Musk was a single mom when she fled South Africa to Canada to get away from abusive ex.

[@dannyarcher6370]

Think I'm gonna have to watch the whole pod. This is an amazing clip.

[@celesasheldon6931]

Paperclip !

[@bgeigleg2508]

I think there is value to being both hard core and having a work life balance. For instance, some of the older more experienced programmers that can knock out code in 1/4th the time of a younger, less experienced programmer may not want to work 80 hours a week, but can get twice as much done in 40 hours than a less experienced programmer could get done in 80 hours. So, I think it's really a case by case situation. Plus, employees may be hardcore and work 80 hours a week for a while, but they will eventually hit a wall. And then, you have to find yourself another employee that isn't as experienced...

[@SamKingLion]

Experience is over rated. By an large, the younger programmers are a LOT faster than the older ones. Of course there are some exceptions, so don’t hold on to the one smarter guy you know and try to make a case for it!

[@mattcargile]

The best is hardcore and experienced. Top tier tech companies want both.

[@CistiC0987]

It's not just about code written fast but maintainable. What's the use of code written fast which nobody else wants to touch

[@CistiC0987]

Why the best would be the top tier? Somebody can be as happy working in 20 employee company working on stuff that he/she loves. It's not just about top tier FAANG. There is also a world outside of that, you know ...

[@mattcargile]

Being hardcore is in opposition to work life balance. If you have work life balance then you aren’t hard core. It all depends on how you define success. At the hard core level, success would be defined by top tier companies with high salaries and high impact on the world.

[@ollievorsina4563]

seems like we always forget to bring labor laws into this conversation

[@iamthemoss]

Why do so many successful people have to be terrible, I've seen it over my 40 year career.

[@midknight1968]

Richard Branson is a successful ceo and he did not hurt workers 😢 we need to teach empathy to people that are on the spectrum

[@bobpritham2660]

Yes. That's where Virgin Galactic comes in. 😂

[@midknight1968]

@@bobpritham2660 he has dyslexia not autism

[@masterq2.033]

He was a bootlegger , in other words, a thief. Being a thief harms people.

[@midknight1968]

@@masterq2.033 please show me proof of it and when? 50 years ago?

[@midknight1968]

I know, I have it too sadly , I was refacing to others that harm people for the lack of empathy

[@johnelectric933]

Being mean protects you from criticism. These people are so full of themselves.

[@sakalava47]

There are great leaders who get lots of motivation and sacrifice from employees and followers. A lot of football coaches can do it while maintaining accountability and making tough cuts when necessary.

[@downkoadRumble]

90% of CEOs are psychopaths so are 100% of politicians, and 80% of all cops

[@thesilversurfer7136]

Communication amongst people in general is deplorable. People are silent when they should speak up, people are rude and obnoxious when they should moderate their tone and language, people are self centered in a conversation when they should be listening. Steve Jobs and Elon Musk would never be tolerated if they had no money. With great privilege comes great responsibility. We never see these men stand tall and through their actions gain respect. No. They choose to rule by intimidation and fear. Autocrats who live in a bubble and everyone else is dirt under their feet. Yet it those who have no compassion or respect for anything that have created the mess humanity is in right now. Selfish, greedy people who control all of the world’s wealth and still that is not enough for them as they stand by indifferently watching the world burn.

[@vaunniethayer1484]

Great post, I couldn’t agree more.

[@carlharmeling512]

Cruelty is the taking of pleasure in the suffering of others. Making others suffer is not necessarily cruel. Suffering is sometimes unavoidable.

[@S.D.323]

Sounds more like sadism I'm pretty sure the word cruelty more refers to actions

[@carlharmeling512]

@@S.D.323 Cruelty refers to actual pleasure taken in the suffering of others. Sadism is action oriented. But that’s just me and my way of looking at things.

[@dimaqny]

I guess that’s why there will always be people who make changes and there will be millions of spectators who sit and discuss how wrong or right they are from the safety of their couch

[@ercanarisoy]

Jack Dorsey did the right thing, I think, he left the scene at the right moment. Power can poison anyone with or without a difficult childhood behind them 💰🙃

[@aemagnuson]

What? Elon saved the world.

[@MIWAENI]

@@aemagnusonnice joke 😐

[@robertacheson5976]

@@MIWAENIoh no your right, it was better when Twitter was taking their marching orders from our malignant intelligence community, who are basic the gestapo for the weathly. Was it better back then or was that not happening. Do you not believe the words that come out of their own mouths in the hundreds of emails that were sent to our big tech firms and that Elon was the only one with the balls enough to release.

[@indianmonk3380]

​@@aemagnusonhuh! When did this happen?

[@Dggb2345]

Balderdash

[@PelosiStockPortfolio]

I worked hardcore in tech for about 5 years in my 20s after I finished college, but I actually was really into it. I loved what I was working on. I started tapering off my work load around 27, the early advancement and experience gained allowed me to easily coast in my 30s, and I'm still coasting in my early 40s at director level. I have no further room to grow career wise, as VP is the next step up and I don't see myself getting there by coasting along. But that is fine with me, I make a shit ton more money than I ever expected I would, and I have had the time and financial resources to really enjoy my life, including those 5 years when I enjoyed being hardcore

[@mdarrenu]

You must have worked very hard and been pretty intelligent and obviously had good health in your younger years. Not many people get all those three. I had health problems and also was not very focused. FInally ended up doing okay in my late 40s and 50s - not as well as you I assume. I never could have been hardcore for 5 years - maybe when I was 16 to 19 before I started having problems with working myself to death.

[@Nerfunkal]

Having only experienced blue collar manufacturing hourly work coasting to me means getting fired for being a piss poor worker, there's only grind for nominal benefits, we're not in control of anything except the machine we're running, and it better be running or you're out of a job.

[@PelosiStockPortfolio]

@@Nerfunkal My definition of coasting is getting everything done at a professional level, which for me is averaging about 50 hours of work per week (there is no over time pay). There is a never ending list of things at work I could spend more of my time on, but I draw the line at around 50 hours. Averaging about 60 hours per week is my definition of "above and beyond". You get noticed, excellent reviews, excellent raises. About 80+ hours a week is my definition of hardcore. If you can consistently put in that many hours while sustaining a high quality of work, you will be given increasingly higher levels of responsibility to the point where your choices impact the entire company. That is what I did for around 5 years until I scaled back my hours so I could have a life again

[@Brandon-youtube]

27 now, just did my 5 hard core years, this gives me some hope as I don't think I have many more I can do. Would like something more comfortable yet impactful.

[@PelosiStockPortfolio]

@@Brandon-youtubeCongrats. One mistake I made after those 5 hardcore years was switching companies too soon. I should have stayed a little longer at the company I had built up momentum with, before switching. Basically you want to ride the momentum for as long as they are giving you increasing levels of responsibility, as that will be easier to do with a company that you have momentum with. Use that extra time to do a long job search, wait for the ideal position you want to apply to

[@ProdriveGT]

Cold hearts, doomed.

[@jamesdellaneve9005]

When we do a new vehicle introduction in aerospace, you have 7,000 people working crazy hours for the last 2 years. I did one and never wanted to do another one. The Program managers live a block away from he plant because they are needed 24 X 7.

[@jwilsonhandmadeknives2760]

it's not always a training issue. some workers are 50%-ers who actively seek to do the least amount possible. there are people who are incompetent. there are people who have risen beyond their capacity. there is a time to be a coach, and there are times to drop the hammer.

[@FromTheHeart2]

You measure great outstanding leaders to exactly that: the humanity in them. To be able to obtain outstanding results without the need to humiliate. I don't know of any at the level of global companies. But may be one day Humanity will be able to produce such individuals.

[@ayoutubechannelname]

The people able to produce outstanding results without being humiliated are exceptionally self-humbling. The people who are exceptionally self-humbling are the most likely to accept humiliation without retaliating or complaining. The self-humbling are more likely to accept less pay, less benefits, and less work-life balance whilst still believing they are in the right place. This is perfect for a leader who likes to “humble” their employees.

[@xDevoneyx]

@3:00 Brutal honesty and being nice are not mutually exclusive. I would say they aren't even related. One can be non-judgemental, honest, respectful, thoughtful, sensitive, righteous while still having effective communication without the need to sugar coat. I think the whole point is recognizing the kind of person you are dealing with. Some people need to be shouted at for them to hear what you say, for them to stop rattling and pay a moment attention to what you say. Because some people only pay attention being under a certain level of threat. Other people, mostly those who are intrinsically motivated, thruth speakers with high self respect and self reflectance would tell you there is no need in being rude or there is no need to shout in order to have effective communication with them, on the contrary. And in this blend of people with lots of personalities within your company finding that effective tone of communication, especially speaking to a group, can be quiet challenging for sure: You want to make sure people have their focus not too much on themselves, and no too much on the company either (or they might burn out). Like Walter says: which kind of work style fits your life at the moment? Those who would say: I'm all in, while they mentally are not, would then have the focus too much on themselves I would say. Very intersting fragment. Thanks.

[@samsonlovesyou]

This cruelty isn't some strategic necessity. These are character flaws of unempathic and narcissistic men. The reality is that they're just nasty and don't care about the needs or feelings of others, so it's easy for them to be cruel. It's not just in the business world, either. Jobs was notoriously cruel to his children. Simply, he had sociopathic traits.

[@adelnoppert370]

I think its also much easier for these geniuses to be cruel because they're always the smartest, they don't get it wrong often and so their position and reputation is never at risk. So in that position compassion only has to come from pure values and not out of necessity like with everyone else, which says something about their values

[@catherinepeery9837]

His father was very cruel, especially to Elon, who was also bullied by peers. It's a reflection of his upbringing. But isn't necessarily his values, but he's not cruel to his children or family. Complicated person who has multiple problems because of that cruely in his early life.

[@samsonlovesyou]

@@catherinepeery9837 There's a genetic component to personality, too. May have inherited the sociopathic gene.

[@boundary2580]

@@catherinepeery9837he is actually quite cruel to his family, just not in as visceral a way as his father or Steve Jobs. He has 10 plus children and in no way is capable of being present in all their lives. Many of them despise him, and he denounced one of his children’s decision to come out at trans with ridicule and accusing colleges of grooming her. She changed her last name because she no longer wants to be associated with him. Musk’s cruelty is more of a lack of care and indifference to his family unless they do something he doesn’t like.

[@alanlight7740]

I was never a fan of Jobs precisely because of his reputation for cruelty - but was it necessary? Probably not to that extent, which is why I'm no fan, but I've seen wishy-washy leaders and I'd take Jobs over them any day. Leaders who try to be too nice cause far more pain in the long run. But if Apple had not succeeded some other company would have introduced personal computers within a few years. I consider Musk a much better leader. He acknowledges that his style is not for everybody and even says that it probably isn't a healthy or wise choice to work like he does. But it _is_ effective. Look at the competition: without Musk the U.S. space program would be in shambles, the electrification of transportation would still be thirty years away, we'd have much more serious risks from artificial intelligence, and many people whose lives have been saved by Tesla's excellent safety record would be dead. If the cost of that is a CEO who occasionally says some mean things, I'll take that any day.

[@exas4791]

When people say they've nice boss and colleagues, it's because there r more than enough resources for everyone at the work place, regardless of their individual contributions. See how nice or sincere everyone is when resources r insufficient, and / or each employee has objective KPIs.

[@tenminuteamateurhour]

Reminds me of when I went to the movie theater and I asked them to change the movie for me mid-way because I didn't like it. Oh wait, that didn't happen because I'm not an idiot.

[@trinidad2450]

There's absolutely no excuse for cruelty, never, no. No one has a right. Don't try to make excuses for cruelty.

[@spacebuddy5339]

Musk: If something sucks I gotta tell people it sucks Me: Um Mr. Musk, renaming twitter to x suuuucks. Mic drop.

[@wilee.coyote5298]

Work to Live or Live to Work continuum?

[@philipkoekemoer4705]

We worked every day, for months, at the start up company I was at. Hard core. Got sold , made a viable product. No other way to get around it.

[@Sinnerswing]

I plan on purchasing this book.

[@SlipMahoneyBowery]

He’s trying to back out for turning CNN into politics not news.

[@digitalsamurai42]

The owners of CNN did that, he's just a chess piece 1

[@batmanrobin6848]

Yeah I’m not sure he was responsible for that.

[@SlipMahoneyBowery]

@@batmanrobin6848 he was SOLELY responsible. He’s back pedaling because he was instrumental in RUINING media.

[@SlipMahoneyBowery]

@@digitalsamurai42 they owners were the vehicle for sure, but he drove that vehicle. It was all about ratings, not honest news.

[@batmanrobin6848]

​@@SlipMahoneyBowery News Article from 2001: Several Republicans have contended that CNN shows a liberal bias in its coverage, perhaps a vestige of network founder Ted Turner's politics. Fox News Channel chief executive Roger Ailes says so repeatedly, and dubbed CNN the "Clinton News Network" during the last presidential administration. New CNN chairman Walter Isaacson, aware that his network is viewed warily by many Republicans, traveled to Washington for a series of meetings with GOP leaders. While Isaacson's representatives characterized the meetings last week as primarily meet-and-greet sessions, they said he wants to hear directly any criticisms that CNN is unfair to Republican or conservative views. CNN has been knocked on its heels over the past year by the growing strength of competitor Fox News Channel, a network with greater appeal to many conservative viewers.

[@DanielTorres-ko3kg]

It's better to examine the real problem from the company's purpose, whether teams achieve outcomes (clients) and impacts (Business). Questioning to push employees to work extra hours non-stop, or irrational extra work, or having on-demand "vacation" days because of Psychological Safety or irrational benefits, are inefficient ways to achieve the company's purpose. i.e. either teams will burn out pretty quickly or won't be motivated to move on. I believe discipline is a great value that can be added and is achieved by the company's purpose, one that the employees can identify themselves with. A person or a company achieves discipline by understanding Why an employee or the company does what it does.

[@SladeBling]

Working in tech wasn't for me, total waste of time tbh. The people I worked had a lack of morals very similar to Steve Jobs and Bill Gates. Steve Jobs was always a POS and Woz would definitely agree with this. Musk seems to be a lot better but his health will fail soon and he'll be out of the game.

[@jamesdellaneve9005]

True. Tech is a value-less environment. Add the amount of people with autism and you get a unfeeling environment. I work in aerospace. Lot of autistic engineers. Probably 5%. Our industry is more normal though.

[@elementaltamago1297]

If you're spending time commuting, you can't be all in.

[@donelmore2540]

I like the concept that people are packages, not totally one thing or the other. A female commentator (don’t remember who) said that she thought Kanye West suffered from mental illness, but that his genius and creativity came out of his mental illness. That comment made me stop and ponder.

[@starsky1012]

Elon musk demands a level of commitment from salaried employees that he never had himself as a salaried employee. It's stupid to expect people to be as motivated about the company as if they also personally spent $50 billion to own it

[@starsky1012]

@@Gnaritas42 He does have trouble finding people for his companies. That's not reality. And it's not a question of competency. It's a matter of being excited to grow a company that isn't yours. A salaried workers, unless they are very stupid, is never going to be as motivated to do that as the shareholding CEO. Employees who are highly motivated workers are more invested in their own self development than anything else. Especially for the best software engineers, they don't sit at the same company for long. They'll stay like 1-2 years and they hop around collecting stock options because they're very re-hirable.

[@starsky1012]

@@Gnaritas42 I feel like you're just making up everything you're saying as you go along because you love Elon so much lol

[@daryndobsonbailey9481]

I’ve worked in companies like this…. The good people left and and the scared people stayed… it doesn’t work….

[@godsentjesustosetusallfree9859]

We live one life. We aren't here forever. Why spread misery when you're going to die like everyone else?

[@alexb3617]

well i guess temporarily becoming hardcore is ok. but has to be temporary. if its more than 2 years, then you burn yourself up

[@ch3burashka]

"If he wasn't cruel, we might not have the Mac." This may be true, may not be - we will never know. The question that we can get an answer to is, "was the creation of the Mac worth the suffering?" And I'm not even talking about a binary option, a universe with Mac or one without. It just means the Mac (or something similar) would have come anyway, 5 years later.

[@prodantech]

Brutal honesty is different than being mean. There are other ways of accurately describing something without using the word “stupid”.

[@alanlight7740]

Some people will never get the message unless it's really driven home, while others need nothing more than a questioning glance. Also, some things really are incredibly stupid.

[@prodantech]

@@alanlight7740 Resorting to being mean to accomplish what you are saying is just a gap or weakness in a person’s communication skills. In a professional setting, we shouldn’t make things personal. Additionally, people perform at their best when they feel appreciated and valued. So, as a leader, we’d be shooting our selves in the foot if we’re mean to our employees and devalue them. Boosting productivity with healthy motivations is difficult and takes a lot of effort, but you get so much more out of it. My directs work so hard for me because of this and they produce fantastic work. I give direct and clear feedback which they gladly accept and they improve on it. The end result is pretty amazing from a productivity and product quality standpoint.

[@user-jr6bl9ih3e]

Nobody on their death bed will regret not working hard enough ... they'll regret not spending more time with family and friends and living life.

[@avengemybreath3084]

People regret not being disciplined and fully committing to a goal or a dream, sure they do.

[@JoeMisseri]

Enlightening clip.

[@theobserver3753]

To be at the very top you need to be ruthless and addicted to your work. Sad but true.

[@leifkemp]

Always go with hard-core!!💪🏼❤️ There should be no work/Life balance for a man until he gets his shit together, professionally. And, that means working your ass off. At any level.

[@jso19801980]

its strange to ask employees to kill themselves working for a company they have no stake or shares in

[@drewtokarsky3917]

Bronx Tale wisdom. "Is it better to be loved or feared"

[@Brandon-youtube]

I think there is a a pretty large line between being cruel and being meat n potatoes. I run into a lot of people in the professional world that don't take well to being direct, holding people accountable, and hearing the truth. All three of those things can be done without being cruel though.

[@HappyMathDad]

How is saying stupid idea better than bad idea? Even more important are the reasons why an idea is bad or "stupid".

[@monicarobledo8684]

It is not what you do but how you do. People grow when we praise them and they are destroyed when degrade them.

[@sarahdubois3572]

For certain people kindness is stupidity and for others cruelty is just to be real..

[@gavinmc5285]

narcissism, ego, bullying and abuse are all linked

[@secretgoldfish]

It can go too far either way.......but the results of 'over-encouragement awarding/rewarding' while over-prioritising faux-positivity (which is ultimately then meaningless without balance) just leads to apathy and stagnation. Balanced constructive criticism is probably the way to go......but over constructive-ness outweighing the criticism can result in the criticism not even being noticed, acknowledged or improved upon, especially when considering that we probably learn the most from our failures simply because we don't want to make the same mistake again and embarrass our ego's. I'm a part time uni lecturer/teacher and the amount of 'necessary' constructive criticism now required for students (who are now clients) is sad, as is the end result.....but the business of university doesn't care, nor do the client/customers who simply think they're buying their entitlement.

[@navskygupta5311]

Business is war; one can't be nice and run an enterprise

[@gavinmc5285]

business must be a continuation of enterprise by more mercenary means then

[@navskygupta5311]

real world is different; just try it out@@gavinmc5285

[@roberttaylor4999]

You can be honest, respectful and still lead people. Being honest and being rude can be separate. I tend to gravitate to John Maxwell's style of leadership. What many of these great leaders miss is that work life balance is important for most employees. If you love your job and are good at it, you can be successful.

[@daveinpublic]

People who are truly gifted don’t get as offended when you’re brutally honest. Sometimes brutal honesty is a breath of fresh air, especially in a company where whispers are common. Not saying everyone wants this style, but I do think that it breeds a feeling of openness which can feel great to some one who is confident in their field. And Lex really shouldn’t say this is the stupidest thing he’s ever heard about jobs and musk when he’s never created more than a podcast. Ironically, he’s calling two visionaries stupid because he’s so passionate about his viewpoint… which is exactly what they did.

[@entubaotraducciones272]

myspace is very hardcore now as well

[@glenneric1]

I think some of these CEOs want their employees to be as obsessive as they are without wanting to pay them what they get paid. You want someone to get obsessive start paying them in shares.

[@lancejones4636]

One man’s cruel is another man’s honesty.

[@indianmonk3380]

One of them is definitely lying

[@ericballi4701]

Yep, just ask Germans. Most would consider their blunt honesty cruel and rude.

[@gavinmc5285]

the old "my truth" justification of abuse

[@trevortaylor5501]

Interesting.

[@epenies]

There’s no need to humiliate, but telling someone something sucks is not humiliation, it’s being honest if that’s the appropriate assessment.

[@ayoutubechannelname]

It IS humiliation for the one having no business being there.

[@sygad1]

"are you hardcore" - shouldn't need to ask and it shouldn't be tied to job security, this is a hideous view of life, YOUR life is the only 1 you have, respect the little time you have and don't be bullied into believing that the only path to success is to squander it on someone else's belief of what work should look like

[@glenn5328]

Steve Jobs may have been powerful but he seemed to be pretty unpleasant and certainly not someone to be admired. It’s a cop out to say that their behaviour goes with the territory. Steve Jobs …..no thank you.

[@MemoTea]

But why then is the most common regret of people who are dying: "I wish I had not worked as hard as I did" ?

[@Manuka_888]

"Well you're not hardcore, NO YOU'RE NOT HARDCORE, unless you live hardcore..."

[@DennisNedryisStillAlive]

hardcore parkour

[@pelado9293]

"I don't wanna be Elon's pet, baby you should better forget it"

[@gavinmc5285]

work hardcore, not smartcore

[@zakmoore3608]

And the phases in life are descibed by Shakespeare in "All The Worlds a Stage" soliloquy from As You Like It

[@DavidBrown-dh3hw]

Its not all about success. The true game of life is service but the ends don't justify the means. Hard core good but mean bad. There is a way to be psychologically safe but at the same time hard core and get sh*t done. Just pay people overtime if you want them to stay until 2am. That is fair otherwise the company is taking advantage of employees. Which also is not good.

[@NisseOhlsen]

Lex ? you keep flashin' the Strat. But where is the playing ? Where, Lex ?

[@atobaidoo8948]

As a leader, i find that it's true. Sometimes you must ger angry and harsh to move things. But there must be a balance. Be naturally nice and sweet on normal days so that times when you get angry and rought it surprises everyone and taken more seriously. If you're always angry and rough, people get used to it or think that's how you are and loses its effect. So yes, being rough and hard works and gets results. But balance it with being nice and winning your peoples hearts.

[@rayakusu-fosterB]

'WHEN 🤔 YOUR LIFE DEPENDS😌 ON IT', OPTION. ❤❤❤

[@celesasheldon6931]

They dish it out and can't take another's response at counter Punching IMHO

[@robertpaterson3229]

Drinking game, take a shot everytime Walter says "hardcore"

[@RFK_71]

I run from companies where the style of management is yelling and arrogant attitudes. I like being in a team environment where we have a common goal moving in the same direction - with respect. There is a time for reviewing the worker, and at that time, one can bring up what you feel is important to the company’s goals. Companies are not the military, they are corporations. They (employees) can go elsewhere for work.

[@QED_]

Then they should go elsewhere for work . . .

[@herOhface]

7:34 yes it is now a playpen for the blue check elite- vile

[@BookClubDisaster]

Guy's a bit of a sycophant. But that's the only way egomaniacs like Jobs and Musk give you access to write books about them.

[@thbemky827]

if someone tells you you have to work just as hard as them but they are becoming billionaires and you get a 6 figure salary.... then i fail to see how pushing people to make you rich is a good thing. all of his ideas can still exist without him treating people like slaves and being a douche

[@M4rt1nX]

No company is worth sacrificing life balance. Is just a jobb, they will never thank you for it.

[@ChristAliveForevermore]

I definitely relate to the type-A classification wherein such a person is inclined towards irritiablity and calling out stupidity wherever one perceives it. However, I'm not inclined towards an intense work schedule insofar as my "work-life balance" would be heavily impacted. So, I suppose I find myself in the center between the extremes of hyper-successful traits: I'm most certainly type-A, but I'm unwilling to sacrifice my peace for worldly success. I believe a fundamental philosophy of materialism is to blame for these billionaires' views on intense productivity. If one can perceive a higher spiritual reality that supercedes the physical, then, as the wise Yogis of India or the 1st century Christians would postulate, why aim for something as lowly as material gain? There are greater things in this life than the acquirement of stuff, be they money, property, or reputation. Some things don't decay with time...

[@aga5109]

True, but l think that progress would never have happened without highly driven people who want to change this world into the Paradise, demanding sacrifices from others.

[@yousufleads]

​@aga5109 neither would be children abused by Epstein

[@ChristAliveForevermore]

@@aga5109 depends on what you mean by "progress."

[@marjotfalkeisen7756]

Mosk feels he is doing something greater than earning money.

[@StillnessofMind]

It is all about balance. However, you will always get hard-core bosses who push their employees hard ( it is called Bullying and intimidation ) .. and expect their staff to do a 5 * job and pay them peanuts. I bet a lot of large scale entrepreneurs are like that .. such as apple products being made in China. What do you think the Chinese workers get paid ? Do you think they have any employed rights ?

[@HappyMathDad]

There are enough people that are either hungry for success, live to work or otherwise. And of course career wise they have an edge over the rest of US who are hard working. But want work life balance. I hope their edge gets blunted some day in the future.

[@cartomancycarmen]

Musk could’ve just bought BET, created X as a stand alone social media platform, and left Twitter alone 😅

[@daveoatway6126]

I don't thing "cruelty" is the right word.

[@jonmansson]

What a lot of bs of choosing if you’re in hardcore or not. Do we want everyone to be burnt out at their 30s?

[@avengemybreath3084]

Not everyone needs to work at a company like Twitter, or for a boss like Musk. There are plenty of softer places to work.

[@christianpatton142]

The issue isn't 'meanness' or 'cruelty'. The issue is kindness. There is short term kindness and ACTUAL kindness. Short term kindness requires little effort and is really about making YOU feel better, as opposed to bringing real meaningful change to a person/s life. Actual kindness takes a lot of time and effort but will actual make the world a better place for a person/s. So Steve Jobs made a lot of peoples lives better = true kindness.

[@Petromola]

Its the onlly platform without censorship. true freedom of speach

[@19951998kc]

Never could understand how Twitter had tweets. It should have named twits instead of tweets. I also found the word twit to be insultive. Maybe just me but i sometimes can see a deeper level.