The Dalek siege that lasted 900 years

[@joshuagough3696]

It's kind of crazy to think that a 900 year seige is almost nothing to the Dalek war machine as a whole. That they could sit above that same planet for 900 years straight and just never stop fighting a war agaisnt the Doctor as well as the othet speicies there!

[@SomeBritishDud1]

The concept that after 3 millenia of on and off war with humanity starting with the conquest of Earth in the 22nd century, the Daleks just disappeared from the universe to fight the Time War in the 51st century is both amazing and terrifying. I like to imagine the Daleks were on the brink of victory, as we see in Into The Dalek and from a human perspective, they stopped and a Dalek wasn't seen again for centuries until the Paradigm rebuilt the Empire.

[@DalekJr625]

It's never too late to do a siege of trenzalore series. We know how it ends. But there's still a lot of creative things one could do with the series. Matt Smith is also older now so it will naturally work well rather than using CGI or makeup to age him up

[@DrBagPhD]

That's too good of an idea for it to ever happen.

[@DalekJr625]

@@DrBagPhD Unfortunately yeah

[@braddsfx8921]

I would've loved to see a Flux style short series about the siege on Trenzalore, clearing mapping out how it connects to the rest of the series, showing us tons of side characters and extra story. I feel if the general audience knew how tightly woven this story was into the entire 11th era, they'd appreciate it a lot more.

[@NaarmGigsIdiot]

I think a whole series would be stretching it a lot but a 3 episode long special would be amazing to see

[@reeceemms1643]

Though the time of the Doctor is amazing. I would have loved to see an enter Series of it. Seeing the Doctor fighting against these enemies. It would have also been a way to see several of those other enemies from classic who like the Mara rendered in modern CGI. But also several other the things that are mentioned like the Dalek attack on the Papal Mainframe.

[@robertdefoe2396]

From a writting perspective, this needed a series not a Christmas episode. In fact, important episodes should not be Christmas episodes due to the limitations regarding viewership and having to cater to everyone.

[@kattybratt1353]

honestly, if they turned the siege into the final season of doctor who, capping off the show for good with time of the doctor, it would have been the perfect ending. twelve is still my favorite doctor (alongside 2 and 9), but i think this could have been an incredibly satisfying if bittersweet ending. maybe the daleks end would have been different, or wouldnt have happened at all (adding to their cosmic horror). im sure in some alternate timeline this could have been the case, capping off this beloved series in a fantastic way also i so love your channel, keep doing what you love!

[@IShatTheBed]

While a series long siege would be interesting, I’m glad we got the time of the Doctor as is

[@nickthepick8043]

I think the Seige of Trenzalore could work either way. As a kid, over 900 years was a big deal to the uninitiated. So it really made me think how dedicated the Doctor was to keeping the universe safe. In addition, the point you made about Demon's Run interfering with the timelines and directly causing these events to happen is a good example of what happens when messing with time travel goes wrong. It's why the Time Lords need to be time-sensitive, otherwise they wouldn't be able to keep stuff like that from happening. As for the Daleks, I read in one of the books that the Paradigm Dalek Supreme actually killed the Dalek Prime Minister. The Dalek on the announcer was actually him. I bet he was seething when the Doctor sent his regards from Gallifrey.

[@duncankilburn7612]

Given the Doctor destroyed Skaro using the Hand of Omega, the Daleks were arguably fully justified in their war against the Time Lords and the destruction of Gallifrey.

[@robotx9285]

Futhermore The Timelords attempted to abort the Daleks completely in Genesis of The Daleks. The Dalek empire in itself was driven to near extinction multiple times over, (Dead Planet, Evil of The Daleks, Genesis of The Daleks and Remenberace of The Daleks) By just one timelord and a group of close allies. Daleks are evil, and the time war was pretty much always gonna happen, but their justification in this case is sound.

[@kryten1016]

I really wish the trenzalore plot line was brought up more

[@AcridGoblin]

This needed an entire series

[@thedaleklord2836]

I enjoyed the Siege of Trenzalore. In my fanfic, the Invasion of Disney, it's foreshadowed by the Red Supreme of the Children of Davros when he and the others escaped with the hijacked Parliament ship. Basically making the Children of Davros were the ones at the fields of Trenzalore (at the time now Purified) while the Paradigm went out with a bag in the COD-Paradigm Dalek Civil War.

[@ciandavies835]

Thanks for this video! As a big Doctor Who fan, I always found the dalek timeline confusing, and never knew that it was the dalek paradigm and parliament at Trenzalore! You've just gained a subscriber!

[@swiftbird4846]

A fantastic insight as always. My thanks to you.

[@dalekbumps]

Thanks to you for leaving a nice comment! I appreciate it :)

[@cameronpearce5943]

I would have loved to have seen this as a series, each episode 100 or so years appart

[@lepterfirefall]

You explained the timeline far better than the series did. BRAVO!!! Makes the timeless child nonsensical.

[@dalekbumps]

Just to clarify - TTC explains that the limit on the Doctor's regenerations was placed on them at the same time as their memory was erased. So after their works with Divison was done, they got a complete Time Lord regeneration cycle spanning the First-Eleventh Doctors (including War and the second Tenth Doctor) before the Time Lords unlocked the limit at the end of the Siege of Trenzalore and allowed the Doctor to regenerate many more times. Rassilon states in Hell Bent that he has no idea how many regenerations the Doctor has left now that the 13-regen limit has been lifted

[@lepterfirefall]

@dalekbumps really? When does it state that? How can the timelords limit him like that as he had no limits anyway...he had already regenerated countless times before....this was seen in timeless child episode and implied via the fugitive doctor. Really 11th should have just automatically regenerated at the end and not needed the extra regeneration cycle. It fitted just fine until chibnal decided to retcon the whole history of the doctor....now its a mess. Oh well.

[@dalekbumps]

@@lepterfirefall its not a mess, it works just fine whichever way you look at it. Either the Doctor ran out of regenerations and needed a new cycle, or they needed the regeneration limit placed on them by Division lifted so that they could make use of their natural ability to regenerate an unlimited number of times. Either way, the number of regenerations works - from the First Doctor to the Eleventh Doctor, there are 12 regenerations, counting the War Doctor and the time when 10 regenerated and kept the same face. 12 regenerations is the normal Time Lord limit - a limit placed on them by Rassilon to mitigate challenges to his authority. The Time Lords offered the Master a new cycle of regenerations in The Five Doctors, so we know that the 12-regeneration limit is not a biological maximum, but an arbitrary limit placed on all Time Lords by Rassilon. Rassilon in Hell Bent fears the Doctor because whichever way you look at it, he has exceeded the standard limit of Time Lord regenerations and is therefore a threat to Rassilon's power.

[@lepterfirefall]

@dalekbumps Yes, the timelords could grant new regeneration cycles but it was never explained how. The limit thing was known before but none of this musing is said in canon. It's just an opinion. Opinion that is needed because of chibnal trying to be clever. Noone knew about the timeless child in universe. Did rassilon know? It was never said It was buried in the matrix by the division and he was used by the division as they knew he had unlimited regenerations. His memory was sealed in the watch, but there is no mention of a limit placed on the doctor, only that he believed he was just a regular timelord with regeneration limits. Am I wrong on that?

[@dalekbumps]

@@lepterfirefall all of these things are hypotheticals. Since the dawn of Doctor Who lore, we have never known how the limit on regeneration works. We have never known what the limits of Rassilon's powers are. We have never known what the true limits of Time Lord regeneration have been. These have all been shrouded in mystery, and are still shrouded in mystery. The Timeless Child reveal changes very little as far as we are concerned, because we knew so little in the first place. We only know what we can infer from what we see and from what we are told, which is next-to-nothing in the grand scheme of things. Time Lord lore bends like reeds in the wind - there are those who scream and cry when it bends too far, as they are ignorant of its resilience, and believe that it could break. Doctor Who lore bends often - but it does not break. Change is a natural and necessary aspect of it, one that we should embrace, not reject

[@59rlmccormack]

The story was excellent in the way it played out.

[@minotronic1959]

Would you ever consider making some kind of Dalek Iceberg? With the amount of knowledge you have on them I imagine it wouldn’t be too hard

[@dalekbumps]

I am in the process of making an iceberg video, though it will likely take several weeks :)

[@minotronic1959]

@@dalekbumps Sick, looking forward to it

[@AnubisX1]

hmm.... I don't think a TV series, but audio and books certainly. I also never viewed it at the entire dalek force was wiped out, as we only see the flagship hovering above the town. But it also bothered me why the daleks simply didn't blow up the planet, we know the parliament ship has that capability and its something they would do. This is my issue with the moffat era of the Daleks, its just a confusing mess. Victory of the Daleks was a good start but then it just all falls apart.

[@8158bolga]

It would’ve been interesting to have, basically, an entire season dedicated to one single story thread: The Doctor defends a town from evil aliens. It would’ve been episodic, and allowed us to see some classic enemies come back.

[@akshaytrayner1960]

Great vid

[@OptimysticPessimyst]

I have a small headcanon that The Time of Angels/Flesh and Stone is the Church going back in time to learn more of the Weeping Angels to protect the planet from them. Also small headcanon that the Angels on Trenzalore came from through the cracks as Timelord scouts. They’re flimsy yeah but fun. Also, because it’s only been said a billion times before, the Timelords giving The Doctor more regenerations makes The Timeless Child non-canon 😊

[@dalekbumps]

The Time Lords giving the Doctor a new cycle of regenerations does not make the Timeless Child 'non-canon'. We knew from as early as the Five Doctors that the 12-regeneration limit placed on Time Lords was not a biological limit, and was in fact totally arbitrary, as the Time Lords promise the Master a new cycle of regenerations as reward for helping the High Council. Rassilon limited all Time Lords, including the Doctor, to an arbitrary 12-regeneration limit. This limit was placed on the Doctor when their memory was erased and they regenerated into the First Doctor. It was lifted during the Siege of Trenzalore to alter history and ensure Gallifrey's survival. Wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey, with no changes to the 'canon'. Just yet more examples of petty Time Lord meddling to save their own wretched cabals from destruction

[@britanimations2002]

Yeah okay, I'll believe the Eternal was on the Parliament ship only when they confirm it. I would've thought they'd be somewhere of prominence in the Parliament but they weren't, so my theory is that he controls operations from a secret bunker in the Skaro city and is still out there even after the uprising in The Witches Familiar

[@dalekbumps]

I wonder if, like the Time Controller, the Eternal may have been banished to the end of the universe, or perhaps he escaped into another reality. Either that or he's secretly leading a clandestine cabal of Daleks that are secretly pulling the strings of Dalek history to their own ends

[@Wanten-the-stormtrooper]

@@dalekbumps Maybe the Victory of the Doctor audio set will give us more info on him so we can make more accurate guesses?

[@Eddo15878]

It’s strange to think that the daleks were just a survival mechanism for the kaleds and now they have a twisted history due to their drain for power

[@jackolantern147]

I would like to request a video on the Nightmare Child please.

[@snakedaemongaming6590]

Ok I never understood the krynoids being there Thanks for reminding me of the headache

[@BranchLineFrog]

Thank you for this, the story of this doctor was always confusing for me. I didn't like it when I was a kid and it first came out, but I think it's much better compared to the new stuff coming out now

[@Amthepope]

I always thought they should of just use a virus instead nano bots and force the surviving humans to help them it make more sense for the daleks anyways

[@thagerman8361]

Is that command and conquer OST in the back?

[@mini2239]

Big Finish could probably do something great with Trenzalore, something like Deep Space 9 might be good

[@randallmilessmith5705]

Well, we need to send trenzalore into a pocket universe lol

[@timecontroller8800]

Yes I really wish we had a hole series and I still think the paradigm survived this as there’s nothing that saids they have too and I know the astounding untold history of the daleks book saids they were fased out but I don’t treat everything that book saids as factual and dalek history can be interpreted in so many different ease oh well it’s all about what u think is cannon as doctor who doesn’t have one

[@dalekbumps]

I would like to think that the Paradigm are out there in some capacity, but since 2013 there's been basically nothing about them other than certain reference books clarifying that they all got wiped out at the end of the siege. If any more lore regarding the Paradigm Daleks appears at any point, like this new Victory of the Doctor audio, I'll make a video explaining it

[@BalrogsHaveWings]

What is the life expectancy of a Kaled mutant? Do they recycle the shell?

[@robotx9285]

They're biologically immortal. As long as the casing and mutant are properly maintained, the Dalek can live forever. Tho, if maintenance is neglected on for to long, there' a risk of the mutant developing a degenerative disorder where the ceature is unable to hold it' body and mind together. While cells that compose it' being never ever die unless directly destroyed.

[@UGNAvalon]

Couldn’t they just… evacuate the town, and let the surrounding fleets duke it out?

[@dalekbumps]

@@UGNAvalon the townsfolk had nowhere to go, and the Doctor had to stay put to defend it otherwise the army fleets would have gained access to Gallifrey, starting the Time War all over again

[@TheOvervoid]

Wait Moffat wanted it to be a whole season? Hm I'm 50/50 on that. Yeah it would have been dope but I could also see it not appealing to most of the audience.

[@grahamturner1290]

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