The Dangers of First Fruits of Zion

[@annhanel3661]

I loved fellowship at torah club. I loved the sharing of ideas and sharing yahuwa with others. As a Seventh-day Adventist, this complimented my studies and makes our Sabbath school class deeper. My schedule prohibits me from attending now but the 2 or so years I attended was such a blessing. I will continue to follow and when i am able to donate again, I plan too. Shalom.

[@lnt5174]

I had been in a non denominational church my whole life.. 30 years. I felt there was a lot missing in what we were learning or not learning for that matter.. I have grown leaps and bounds after breaking off my filters and believing what I was reading, instead of reading what I believe. Torah is instruction, direction, it is Holy and good. Legalism isn’t Torah, legalism is your motive behind what you’re doing. What’s the first question Christian’s ask each other when they meet ? What church do you go to ? Like the church you go to means more than Yeshua.. why would we not want to follow His ways ? Not legalistically or in man’s tradition. That’s what got the first century leaders in so much trouble with Jesus. I love the Torah, I love learning about the feasts, about the amazing day Adonai gave us in Shabbat.. Do I as a gentile have to do any of it ?? No, not for salvation no. It’s free. But I do like learning about the feasts my messiah did. How He walked, how He worshipped. Pretty hard to complete Romans 11 if you strip the Jewish messiah of His culture.. I’m in awe of my savior and the beautiful nation I am grafted into .. Without their messiah we are lost. I pray for Israel and the Jewish people.. Maranatha

[@MariaGomez-yr1zw]

Thank you for this conversation and the helpful clarifications. They serve as a tool we can use if these sort of questions arise with the people we introduce FFOZ to. It gives us the vocabulary and Biblical passages to answer with. I look forward to the next episode as I have been promoting your HaYesod course to many of my friends and I'm expecting questions that I might not know how to answer. (Just found out FFOZ about 3 weeks ago, so I'm new at this 😅. Did your course in less than 2 weeks. I'm thirsty for Biblical truth, for sure... 😁) I will also approach the church hubby and I attend to encourage the pastors to have a look at HaYesod and hopefully present it to the whole congregation. It's vital that the gentile church grows in a deep understanding of what FFOZ teaches. The alternative, honestly speaking, is a sleepy/malnourished and ultimately, a dead church. So please, try to continue this conversation in a podcast soon! Thank you! Shalom

[@carolevans2039]

I was in Torah for a year or 2....so i can speak to both Christian and HR or Torah. While i was in the group i did not even know it was called HR or Torah Observant. Now after being out, and it was by hearing the voice of God His Holy Spirit, that I have gained insight. While most started out as Christians , and most if not all in the Torah groups are gentiles, we in the church were taught heavy on the NT. When Torah groups start talking about the jewish messiah and the feasts and sabbath that touches the deep places in us that want to know more about our Messiah. My conclusion, after several years out of Torah , and being taught by the Holy Spirit is that we as the church have missed a big section of scripture on the Covenants. When we gain understanding on the Covenants and promises, their timing, who radified them, their purpose, who they were given to as in the Sinai Covenant given to the people of Israel, and the "until" clause , until the seed until the messiah then we see and understand the parts we missed and see how the big picture points to the coming Messiah. Hope you can follow this as there is much to say and texting sometimes doesn't convey well. The Covenants Abraham, Noah, Sinai, and the Law of Moses, Eternal Better Covenant on better promises ALL have their place!. That being said the reason for saying Torah Observant or HR is dangerous comes when I as a gentile believer am told i must keep the feasts, the sabbath and the dietary laws or else i am in disobedience. That i am lawless. Scripture does not say that. Gal. Romans Eph. Hebrews... Acts 15 and the Jerusalem council and Paul. Jesus Yeshua himself does not speak on sabbath keeping but does speak to the other 9 commandments. And all is summed up, the Law the prophets and the Psalms, in the 2 greatest commandments. Blessings in the Name of Yeshua ha MashiYah

[@graft1514]

It’s my second yr with Torah Club that I’m so grateful. Satan’s most hate target is “Israel “ even using that word. Yeshua is “ the King of Jews”.not just king. Jews, Israel words exist to describe GOD of Israel !! Without Israel’s GOD. It’s just another pagan gods.

[@hope4living1]

Awwww love and miss y’all. Loved listening to this.🥰 If you’re pushing buttons in the church, the “Torah movement” and Messianic Judaism, you must be doing something right. Keep up the good work! 👍💪❤️🙏

[@russwayne2132]

I think it's ironic that "Christian leaders" find FFOZ dangerous, pretty much the same way that the Sanhedrin found Yeshua dangerous. People in power who believe they have the only truth will fight to keep their power. Pray for them to be shaken out of their false teaching so they will repent. Keep preaching truth, brothers.

[@graysonbr]

There is this one guy out there on line that is really focusing hard on the danger of Torahism but I confronted him as nomism or works of the nomism as the problem. There were Romans that took pride of following their laws and works of Roman nomism. Too many of the wild branch have gotten too wild and assuming that they have their own covenant and doesn't understand that they were grafted in. Now there is a dispensation to those outside the land of Israel, all the New Testament is about the Torah is to be applied outside the land of Israel and the Spirit's role in the believer's life. I really think one other problem is not also understanding that America is a place outside the land of Israel where a type of nomism slips in. The message of the cross of Christ must be centered to prevent this as surveying Christ's death should provoke contempt upon any pride.

[@Liliesofthewadi]

Amen to that friend! Amen to that. I 100% agree, Christ MUST be at the center of our theology!

[@CA_Watchman]

These guys are pretty obscure FFOZ. They have a great business model of charging folk $100 usd a year to meet and zoom with others close by, who have been found to be (by me) ‘all over the place doctrinally’. Random folk at different stages of understanding.

[@ONeilPoppy-l1k]

Davis Karen Clark Kenneth Lopez Mark

[@graft1514]

GOD’s patriarchs and prophets didn’t make denominations. Yeshua’s disciples who all died for the mission didn’t make denominations either. We have to wake-up Jews and graft to them! And make one new man! Hallelujah hallelujah!!

[@trulyso734]

Not with Kabalism/Talmudism we dont! They worship Not God and then some appear to be waiting for a Different Messiah to come altogether! So no thanks, enough are the teaching heresies/errors across churches, adding 'new knowledge' would not help and isnt wise. (Just offering this opinion to others who may be considering this because they are not finding fellowship and/or good teaching of the bible at their local church).

[@Hebrewess8]

And there in is the “dangerous” part- you consider us, as those grafted into Israel, as “gentiles.” You’ve basically adopted the Noahide false doctrines.

[@Hebrewess8]

What about the definition of sin- for the Jews, any breaking of the Torah is sin, but for gentiles, we supposedly have a different standard for sin? We can break certain commandments from Yah and it’s not sin?! This “distinction theology” is from the pit of hell and is not in alignment with the Bible. You’re telling people they can sin against a most holy God! You will be held accountable for the sins of these people you’re lying to. Woe to you! 😩

[@firstfruitsofzion]

Breaking Torah as it applies to you is sin. No one person is beholden to all 613 commandments since many are specific to groups of people like Jewish men, Jewish women, farmers in Israel, kings, lepers, etc.

[@Hebrewess8]

@@firstfruitsofzion There is no, “as it applies to you” in Torah. It says in Torah there is one Torah for all.

[@trulyso734]

The christian's bible already has those Old Testament books of your Torah. Christianity and judaism are different in vital doctrines. I can appreciate some of it where there is overlap, but that is it.

[@firstfruitsofzion]

How little do you believe the overlap to be? "Those Old Testament books" are a significant page count of the Bible.

[@YeshuasTrueWay]

I am no longer a gentile because I am grafted in as a follower of Yeshua therefore I am now Israel. So I can wear tzitzit or a kippah or perform any mitzvah that is commanded of Israel. So since you also try to DIVIDE with your "distinction theology" I will unsubscribe.

[@firstfruitsofzion]

Before you unsubscribe, consider the words of Paul. You make it sound as though Gentiles who accept Messiah can/should take on all commandments incumbent upon Jews-this would include circumcision. Does Paul welcome Gentiles who become disciples to take on Jewish identity and all commandments incumbent upon Jews-including circumcision? "Only let each person lead the life that the Lord has assigned to him, and to which God has called him. This is my rule in all the churches. Was anyone at the time of his call already circumcised? Let him not seek to remove the marks of circumcision. Was anyone at the time of his call uncircumcised? Let him not seek circumcision. For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of God. Each one should remain in the condition in which he was called." (1 Corinthians 7:17-20)

[@graft1514]

Without Jews., no new Israel alone. It’s together!!

[@bengorton901]

When we are grafted in, we still maintain the distinction of being the wild branches of the tree and we do not become the natural branches. Which is exactly what the apostle Paul was addressing; specifically YOUR arrogance to the natural branches. We are gentiles that have surrendered to the king of Israel and we are servants of Israel because we love the God of Israel whom chose the Jewish people to be a separated holy people to be a nation of priests to the gentiles. The Temple is in their land and it is given to them to represent gentiles before Hashem and to represent Hashem to the nations. The immense suffering that the Jewish people have endured throughout the span of time should convey the same awe and respect we have for their Messiah that suffered on behalf of the world. A gentile brought near to the covenants of promise through casting allegiance to the Jewish messiah does not warrant the same honor as the Jewish people whom covenanted as a nation to follow Hashem in obedience and suffer the curses of disobedience. Now we gentiles have a blessed hope. We too can suffer as the Jewish people and their Messiah so that we too can share in the glory of such suffering. Luke 24:26-27 Was it not necessary that the Christ should suffer these things and enter into his glory?” And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he interpreted to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself. The scripture he shared was more than Isaiah 53. It says He began with Moses and the Prophet(s)