The Dark Side of K-pop Survival Shows: Why They Do More Harm Than Good

[@MidnightTheories]

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[@Felipepavzin92]

@MidnightTheories thank you for raising awareness about the state of kpop survival shows a please send a fully KPOP Box for me a i am your biggest fan XOXO

[@Cookie-jl4st]

I feel so bad for the contestants of GP999 More specifically for the Chinese and Japanese girls 😢.

[@gwenmloveskpopandmore]

Yes and wishing the best for the upcoming males but the poor girls 😢

[@jiaverse]

you should feel bad for the korean girls too, they also went through hard filming hours?? And they're the ones who had to serve as translators bc mnet didnt provide any..

[@gwenmloveskpopandmore]

@@jiaverse oh yeah

[@k_n_c_y]

@@jiaverse Pretty sure they were referring to the fact that the foreign contestants either got vilified or disregarded on the show. That was one of the main controversies of GP999

[@avsambart]

The age thing really grinds my gears across ALL of kpop. I'm still waiting for it to change. Debuting 24-30 should be normal. And having a 10-15year+ career should be normal. Basically I wish JPop standards were also KPop standards *cries*

[@stevanboi5980]

thankfully, there's a newly debuted boy group called XEED and their youngest members are 26 and oldest is around 30 granted that some of the members were kpop idols in previous groups, it's still a big win

[@cmlkhf]

i agree but i don't think jpop is any better than kpop when it comes to ageism. sure, men in the jpop industry get to debut after 25 and have an idol career until their late 30s/early 40s, but women are expected to debut in their early to mid *teen* years and they're basically forced to leave the industry by their late 20s.

[@LeraEluna]

I'm not a jpop fan so i don't know much about jpop but don't they debut literal children? 🙁

[@cmlkhf]

@@LeraEluna yes. when it comes to debut/retirement age, jpop is better than kpop for male idols but worse for female idols.

[@avsambart]

@@stevanboi5980 ohhhh there is?! I'll be checking them out asap! Thanks for telling me.

[@Patricia_Morticia]

I'm not very familiar with K Pop survival shows or the culture of K pop in general so this video was a great introduction. Can we get a round of applause for the two female judges shutting down the guy belittling a female contestant for being 28 and "too old to debut". Seeing the little kids on a show like that should have raised all kinds of red flags, and that girl dancing to Ariana Grande's "Side To Side" when she was a literal minor at 13! Why did no one at any point step in and put a stop to that?

[@gwenmloveskpopandmore]

It’s because the South Korea government does not care. They haven’t cared in years sadly

[@gwenmloveskpopandmore]

Also welcome to kpop

[@shruthakeerthi4559]

People defended the show because she's pretty and "mature" for her age 😓 help- also they were like "she knows what she's doing!" As if-

[@nothing4120]

in the episode, the leader of the Side to Side group did mention her concern that her members being minor and how it kind of gave her a hard time to choreograph for the mission as the song is quite explicit as well as the concept they were going for and lowkey tackle about how inappropriate it is for their age. But yes, wonyoung(the 13 yr old) technically picked the song though, but then again no one knows exactly how much of that choice was hers.

[@chuforeichi]

Because they said the only ones who think it's sexual are the ones with a dirty mind. And that no one really pay attention to the sexual message in the song.

[@bsc1019]

I remember watching Produce 48 and thinking how rude the judges were to most of the Japanese idols who auditioned. It was like one after the other of all the Japanese girls were getting terrible rankings with the exception of Sakura. It was really disheartening to see how awful they were treated on the show

[@jiaverse]

Is it rude or is it being objective? Most of them didn't have that much basic skills. It's unfair to rate them highly considering that, since the krn girls will have to share the same rank with them even with a skill disparity in that case. even a lot of people debate that Sakura should have got a B or C to this day... Jurina was actually more complimented for her performance than Sakura, but alas, mnet wanted to push Sakura from the beginning so

[@Broth8492]

You're focusing on the wrong thing right now.

[@robinwangai3303]

It's always visuals over talent. That's how the Korean music industry works nowadays.

[@ariusbudiman7105]

K-Pop and J-Pop is different culture and cannot be mix! whether Japanese follow K-Pop or Korean follow J-Pop, so this Produce 48 survival show just for the sake of entertainment industry and of course for money that how this industry works.

[@newjeansfan238]

I saw this extract of YG in Mixnine who talked so much about the age of female idols and what you said is so true about asking female idols age but not male idols! Super Junior is still active and they are in their 40 years age, when female idols are too old in just their 25 years to debut and except BoA there is no old female group

[@jtmm5957]

Not jus BOA but tg Girls Generation and Kara just had a comeback ❤ I’m happy female idols like them have been able to get back to singing together despite the years long hiatus. Hopefully that kind of longevity happens for more female groups.

[@j.a9558]

They think fans are only devoted to male idol groups in terms of longevity but I'm happy Girls generation, Kara etc are proving otherwise.

[@light_bit]

Well. He indeed love younger female. he criticized sori because she was to old. But, at the same time. He smiled to see 99 line girl at that time dancing into sexy choreography. (Its also can represent many of girl group fans. (Well, no offense) And thats why Woolim try so hard to dress lovelyz like they still at school girl age when the fact they already at their 20's)

[@jiaverse]

I mean super junior isn't a good example though, not for the point you're making... Bc they're old now but they weren't that old when they debuted, iirc they fell into the age range of 16-21. Majoirty of idols of any gender debut in that age range, it's not that "you're too old to be an idol (at all)" but "you're too old to be newly debuting as an idol". so boa isn't a good example either, it'd have to be a gg who are debuting after the age of 23-25 or smth like that. Like kahi who debuted in late 20s and the beg member. never seen a male idol with a successful career start out that late so... i think what people want in the industry is not true and that female idols actually have the better track record of succeeding with later aged debuts

[@vixxexo6855]

@@jiaverse Yes I Know more female idols that debuted older than male idols. Like Park Bom, Kahi, Brown Eyed Girls, Solar, Irene and Dara all debuted at older age. They also all are succesful like Solar and Irene are in one of the most succesful girl groups ever. While I can’t name succesful boy group member that debuted at an older age. I think it makes more sense for boy group members to debut younger since they have to go to the military.

[@Markydarling]

I felt so bad when Seungri spoke on Sori’s age, but look how karma works because now he’s going to jail for 3 years 😂

[@CoCo-ov9eb]

Same, it was so disgusting the way he disrespected her. I hope he rots in jail.

[@azimiza1210]

Let's not forget how he badly aged visually after his scandal broke

[@Markydarling]

@@azimiza1210 Yea he looks old af and me and him are the same age

[@ubergamer2010]

He's actually getting out soon... barf

[@azimiza1210]

@Gowon Gang wow, he's probably counting days to start eyeing for teen girls again. His sentence was as light as a slap on the wrist. I have not been on twitter for a while but remember how disgusting his loyal twitter fangirls were.

[@bryanna9458]

that note from the producer from produce 101 about wanting to create healthy porn shocked me so much..i had to pause and take a second cause wtf 😭

[@miraaisha546]

Wait wtaf

[@HealingIsOk]

healthy... porn???

[@illtakeapotatochipandeatit390]

The fact that only the girls season was called “healthy porn” is disgusting

[@jasperthecrab2661]

we also need to acknowledge how no matter how many times mistreatment/rigging/favoritism/devil editing/issues with survival shows are brought up/discussed, that the reason companies can still create so many of these programs is that people keep buying into the hype and allure of it it's probably unfair to put the blame on the general public, but think about it. an equal amount of scrutiny has to be put on how viewers and fans fall for tactics like evil editing and how it's affected a lot of trainees' mental wellbeing, how entire hate mobs form around contestants making it or not making it to the final lineup, directed at young people who are pretty much still vulnerable to promises of fame and are exploited and scrutinized while being made to think that this is all part of the process. the fandom created around these programs are just as toxic to these trainees and idols, just in a different way

[@aransiosaenakeena]

My thoughts exactly

[@stephi1311]

the women going off at 18:23 - chef's kiss.

[@shrimpified4413]

this is also why i dont want to watch any survival show if there are underage contestants.. like it breaks my heart seeing them being exhausted in any way when they should be out in the real world to enjoy their child/teen years before adulthood.. and the parents that allow them to go on such shows should understand how damaging it can be for a young mind still developing

[@aestheticcat8976]

Another reason why I don't watch these shows is because it's just so important for them to debute, for some it's almost like this is their last or only chance to become an idol. So when they don't get the chance or get sent home, some often resort to harming themselves. It's difficult for me to think about this, how many think this way and what their mindset could potentially be when they get sent home instead of debuting especially considering how young some are. I can only hope they have the guidance of relatives, or a guardian to guide them to the right path plus teach them that it isn't the last or only chance if this is their dream. 🫤

[@GrizzlyNextDoor]

You should have mentioned the possibility of the Survival Show being a big FLOP like The Unit or not even debuting a group (*cough* mixnine *cough*). Basically giving the final participants hope for nothing. Making them being abuse in pain and stressed for nothing. (They should never be treated like that!) Also, you forgot to add that these shows can easily be rigged like Produce 48, Produce X 101 and Idol School.

[@bebebongBaebae]

She already made video on those subject.

[@burneraccountforthewin]

She's already made separate videos for each of those subjects. Check the chanel

[@gwenmloveskpopandmore]

Yes even as a 24U I feel sorry for the current members especially Xiwoo and their Japanese members Yuma and Takekuru they need to know they shouldn’t be in that group. 24K debuted in 2012 Same year as Exo and Btob but were always blacklisted in the industry.

[@emmakirton]

I've been a 24K fan since debut and they've always been great performers, they've just had such shit luck and lack of support

[@gwenmloveskpopandmore]

@@emmakirton oh yeah

[@snithasuresh9519]

why were they blacklisted ? did they do something ? idk much about them so im just curious

[@hwaseongs]

@@snithasuresh9519 they were blacklisted by former president park geun hye, who was impeached due to charges of corruption. the exact cause for the blacklisting is unknown, but their company speculates that it was due to them singing the theme song for the opposing candidate back in 2012.

[@snithasuresh9519]

@@hwaseongs ahhh that makes sense. Thank you !

[@annie_xo]

Honestly I don’t understand parents who allow their young children to take part in these competitions/shows. It’s incomprehensible to me that anyone would allow a 12 year old (or even younger, wtf) to participate. I think there should be an 18+ age limit.

[@ACEsParkJunheeWreckedMeHard]

It's not only Korea, I also saw that with Japanese shows. And there are going to be more and more shows in Japan. Avu-chan from the Japanese band QUEEN BEE for example stated why they were making a show in 2023 and Avu's only answer was "Survival shows are in right now so I allways wanted to host such a show" and many other famous Japanese artists allready did the same by either making their own shows or participating as judges on survival shows in Japan. IDK which show had the youngest participants in Japan so far, but I remember that one boy on Produce 101 Japan was 13 when he auditioned for the show.

[@dronesclubhighjinks]

I'm so glad you mentioned the role of the parents in all of this! Why does nobody talk about them? It seems there are an unfortunate number of parents in various cultures who want their kids to be rich and famous. If they did not allow their kids to participate, there would be nobody for the companies to exploit. But there seems to be an inexhaustible supply of ambitious parents, so the companies can do what they want with the kids. Same goes for sports. It doesn't seem to matter to these parents how many stories of pervs and abuse there are surrounding Hollywood and elite sports. (I know nothing about the Korean and Japanese entertainment industries, or elite sports, but if you would like to tell me, I would appreciate that!) I was wondering how a "popstar" career for a teen is perceived within Korean and Japanese societies. Are their parents proud? Do their parents brag about it? How do extended family members feel? How do the coworkers of the parents feel? Are they impressed or do they think an entertainment career is contemptible? Is it dependent on socio-economic status? If you know, I would love an answer! Within the western world, east Asian immigrant parents tend to be very ambitious for their children to become doctors and lawyers (or at least accountants and IT experts). They would consider the entertainment industry to be tacky, and beneath them. Although, they would also not be impressed with their child becoming a professional athlete or dancer, a blue-collar worker, or a police officer. I know examples of all 4. None of these careers require a university degree, and the immigrant Asian parents, along with upper middle-class white parents, think if a career does not have that as a requirement, then their kid is too good for that. (Most of the latter would not object to having a child become a professional athlete or ballet dancer. They would object to professional cheerleading or dance team. Ballet is an art form, even if it doesn't pay much. And parents of professional athletes are very much admired and envied at least by white parents, regardless of the ethnic background of the professional athlete.) Thank you for reading! If you have any answers, I would be grateful if you would provide them. I've tried looking it up online but it's difficult to find (or else I'm a moron!). I hope you have a great day! 😄🙏💐 Edit: Clarity

[@beyond.thepages_]

​​@@dronesclubhighjinksI think this is largely because of cultural differences. But I have also heard that it is because it is hard to find a job in Korea even with high qualifications since employers do look at their appearances as well. And even if they went overseas to look for employment, it would be hard since many countries don't recognise the certificates from Korea. That's what my friends from Korea said. That is one of the reason why their parents moved them here (I'm from Singapore btw) so that they have better education opportunities...

[@dronesclubhighjinks]

@@beyond.thepages_ oh wow, that is super interesting! Thank you so much for taking the time to respond!! I really appreciate it!! 🤗🎶💐🌺💕

[@foreveryoung10643]

Oh my I still have PTSD with Girls Planet 999. 😢 I remember how badly the Chinese group were treated plus evil editing and favored this member so she’ll debut.

[@galaxy_kitten95]

The whole topic on agism really makes my blood boil to no end. Why should age be such a factor in rather or not a female idol should debut? Can they keep up as just much as their youngest counterparts? Do they have the skills and stamina? I am sure they so, otherwise they wouldn't auditioned in the first place. That fact that it is ALWAYS men making such a statement, yet they don't say anything towards older male contestants. Bigotry and double standards at its finest. If you're going to talk crap, at least be fair and consistent. Shouldn't be brought up in the first place, but still.

[@bastetowl3258]

because they’re attracted to women that look like little girls in korea

[@kristi4113]

Truthfully…these shows just need to stop. Everything these kids are going through are just getting worse and worse: no food, no sleep, evil editing, language barriers, better-than-you judges and mentors. Since I know this crap will never stop, I’d prefer to see no male judges on the female shows and vice versa. One of Asia’s biggest problems is sexualizing kids, and these shows don’t help when an old ass man like YG is making age comments😵‍💫

[@TheAkumaChan]

I was 20 when I started dancing, including heels, burlesque, femme hip hop, basically all the overtly sexy styles. I don’t think many people who don’t dance realize how much confidence you need to have to have a healthy relationship between yourself and this type of dance. I never thought too much of young idols debuting and dancing until I started to notice some of the moves and looks they would have mimicked the ones I had in the dance studio. It made me so uncomfortable, and a bit nauseous. I have the luxury of dancing for myself, but what about those 14 year old kids, omg, what a horrible thought to have. Even more so when you realize they are most likely aware of who are watching their videos 🤢🤮

[@bastetowl3258]

a lot of these young female idols have ahjusshi fans so there are def grown men perving on them

[@HorrorHound87]

Survival Shows through the years through their deceptions and toxic drama making have shown themselves to be out of touch, abusive, exploitive affairs that if they had their way would turn the genre we love K-Pop into a Legitimate Joke.

[@martinhoDKB]

Only if it's done by MNET honestly

[@HorrorHound87]

What about MixNine aired on JTBC and The Unit on KBS both massive failures

[@martinhoDKB]

@@HorrorHound87 oh those 2 especially are up there jtbc and KBS have done mistakes as well don't worry but you know MNET is MNET honestly the only show's that i have not heard anything bad from the contestants is all shows by MBC and they made Under19, Wild Idol and My Teenage Girl even tho MTG had some interesting age gap and i did understand what was MBC trying to do with this highschool concept between grader's but in the end it was still not the best but other then that they're survival shows are generially just enjoable to watch no favoritism no evil editing for drama just contestants and their full personalities and talent

[@songkangsbabyface]

I remember watching I-Land and getting the worst anxiety from it as if I was the one competing. Main reason why I can no longer watch Kpop survival shows anymore.

[@dollycoquette6671]

That time when i was watching I-Land, the part when taki was responsible for leading the group i felt so bad, he was not well at all. He needed rest, and he was pressured. Luckily Heesung helped him.

[@ponponderp]

dayoung grew up so much since her kpop star audition ☹️🥲 thank you for bringing up wjsn !! something else to note is yeonjung was on ioi & wjsn but she was one of the most hated members to make the ioi lineup

[@shakibaraki]

fans always complain how awful survival shows are but then completely forget about the whole discussion when the next one comes along and the cycle keeps going 🤥

[@bastetowl3258]

thats why i never watch these shows. i’m too old to watch a bunch of 13 year olds do sexual dances

[@mammonsimp6973]

The thing i hate so much is that they trying to debuted minors and some people on the internet sexualize them. Not to mention, some survival shows literally judge contestant for their visual, says that theyre ugly and fat (if theyre fat, then wtf am i??) which lead to low self esteem The viewers also at the wrong here. Some kpop stans tends to say 'they look healthy' when some idols are clearly underweight. Its so crazy how these people will support literally everything about their idols

[@FlipTheBard]

I never liked these survival shows, ever since they first started popping up they seemed so fake, so manipulated and so "just for entertainment" rather than to actually help people debut as idols or develop as artists or something.

[@g0gin0]

Produce rigging gaeun out of the lineup will forever hurt considering she is such an angel.

[@leme8108]

I hate how knetizens calls them old hags (especially ggs) when they start hitting 22 onwards

[@e.deborah7256]

I-Land was a breath of fresh air for me tbh. Not too many contestants. Available for global viewership and input. Stable environment. And, above all, minimum Mnet involvement and maximum Hybe involvement.

[@axelvinicius3365]

I-Land was also very terrible though. I can name more than 20 impressive trainees in Produce series, while in I-land it was hard to get to know even half of the cast because the other half just had so much screentime. Participating in a survival like this may increase the popularity and fanbase of a trainee and help them debut in another group, but I think I-Land participants got the short end of the stick even though they were hand picked by Hybe and should all be the very best. And Hybe collaborated with Mnet in villanizing some trainees.

[@karinvasu3005]

i dont know if youve seen the japanese version of produce 101. i highly highly suggest watching it. its so so possible to make survival shows more humane and even has evidence since pd101 japan is literally right there im so mad korean shows are like this when its entirely possible not to make them like that. how on earth is it so hard for them to do that? all of the participants have positive accounts of their time in the show, they all have more or less equal screen time their production team is completely different and they just used the produce name for fame but really i think pd101 japan is one of the most humane survival shows out there if not the best in general also those that have emerged from the program are really successful Permanent groups (the trainees were not tied to companies)

[@andredrw289]

I think there has to be some drastic changes to survival shows in general if they’re ever going to be at the height that they once were. Being as transparent as possible is a great start. An age restriction or range would definitely help. I know there are idols like Boa, Taemin and Krystal who debuted at 13 but nowadays it just feels uncomfortable now. Obviously giving them all the necessities that they need for dorm living like food and toiletries and no evil editing.

[@HailToTheMeep]

For those are interested: Check out an old article by VICE about Busker Busker who was on Superstar K in the early 2010s. They destroyed trainees and contestants.

[@DollfaceLizkah]

You should do a video on G.na, she was a very popular singer from Canada who was manipulated into accepting a sponsor. Then they basically ran her out of Korea. The whole thing was so gross and misogynistic and I don't see anyone talk about it. G.na did nothing wrong.

[@ND-kh5yw]

I know wtaf was that why did she just disappear why did no one question that I read like. One koreaboo article about that back in the day which basically just shared that knetz were saying she's a prostitute and that was IT like????? Poor g.na

[@Gambit166]

Behind the glitz and glamour, the K-pop industry and culture is rotten to the core. Thank you for documenting this.

[@newjeansfan238]

I totally agree that Survival show causes more harm specially to idols! Trainee and Idols group are so mistreatment even if they debuted, not paid: This year we heard about Omega X's mistreatment from a small company, it reminds me of TS company who closed their door and with B.A.P and Secret member's lawsuit against TS

[@sailorm4y4ri]

Jesus... there is so much exploitation and abuse. It doesn't matter if it is a part of the culture or in the contract. The production company can be sued if this happens in the States, and there are already so many companies trying to go around work protection codes.

[@justanotherlostperson3902]

People try to deny it… but they continue to support only young idols thats why younger and younger idols debut

[@ACEsParkJunheeWreckedMeHard]

And those are the same people who look at Boys Planet and write comments on the internet like "Why the fuck is Hui participating? Hes almost 30 and what will the 14 year old kids think who go on the show and see him?"

[@nsbynsn]

Because people doesn't want to admit their hypocrisy

[@yumimori1196]

The reason I don’t like and watch survival shows is because of power harassing, diets, and how they treat others (bullies). Why did votes needed to be manipulated and what is the motive?

[@ShortyBoo482]

The only one I ever watched was No Mercy and that's because MONSTA X is my favorite group. Even though I watched it long after they had been a group and knew how things were going to end up, I struggled to get through it. Especially the episode where they had just sent Minkyun home and everyone was already upset and they brought in Changkyun and no one wanted to talk to him. I really didn't think I would cry watching that show, but I couldn't help it. I just felt so bad for everyone. After that, I decided I couldn't handle watching another one.

[@lurkingintheforest]

I love the fact those women stood up to that guy for that age stuff. It's sad that women have to go through that meanwhile those crusty men don't. People age, it's a normal part of life, that doesn't mean you're worth less.

[@RJ-vj9ws]

I don't know much about survival shows, I literally found out about them three weeks ago. But it really weirds me out how people accept them so readily. I've only heard about how i-land worked and that already put me off. The concept of the 'ground' sounds so... I feel bad for sunoo

[@Twiceuponaday]

The only survival show I watched was Girls Planet 999 because 3 Cherry Bullet girls went on the show. It’s not only traumatizing for the contestants but also viewers, that’s what I realized. Voting was frantic and difficult. I liked so many of the girls and I wanted to see them all debut and be successful but it’s impossible. Though there’s also the stupid amount of hate some of these contestants get. I don’t know if other shows had such an issue but in GP999, Sein got so much hate for falling asleep during Yujin’s performance. She was 15 and it was later announced it took 48 hrs (?) to record the first performances for all the members. Fans dropped her and her cell mates just for THAT. It’s wild… and then there’s hiyyih who got instantly hated from the start. “Oh she’s always mentioning her brother” when she never brought him up, only other people did. Even now she gets massive amounts of hate and I don’t understand. I personally feel trauma bonded to Kep1er which is why I love each of them so much and why I’m so invested in them because as a first time watcher of a survival show, it was traumatizing in a sense. But I don’t think I’ll ever watch one again… too much heart ache

[@binxdoesntbite]

As someone who's been robbed and raped, a kpop survival show isn't trauma. Grow up.

[@slug05]

​@@binxdoesntbite ...are you fucking serious

[@the_Morbo]

Another good video, as always! GP999 is the first and one of only two kpop survival shows I've watched. Undoubtedly the contestants deserve to be treated well and should receive compensation for their time. Having 12, 15, 20 hour performance/recording sessions shouldn't be considered normal, and exceptional cases should be followed by exceptional R&R. The pressure/stress of such a contest is probably unavoidable with every contestant trying to fulfil their dream of debuting, on the other hand a lot of people can pick up some exposure and make a name for themselves even if they don't make the final cut (Su Ruiqi wooo!). There are probably improvements to be made to the format. I really enjoyed the show "Miss Back" where "forgotten" idols got to tell their stories, connect with each other and have friendly performance contests. The premise is different to people trying to make their first break, but maybe the concepts can be mixed somehow? I don't know. While on the topic of a select few getting more exposure in editing during these shows I noticed Kim Suyeon (Sheon from Billlie) got a lot of screen time in this video 😄

[@gwenmloveskpopandmore]

Philippines also recently joined the survival show craze teaming up with MLD Ent, Kamp, and a Filipino company home to P-Pop acts BYGO and Bini. It’s called Dream Maker. It’s kinda like Produce 101 and Produce 101 Japan but with a twist! I hope MLD knows what they’re doing but at the same time I know they don’t and Poor Momoland is doomed now :( Actually they’re all doomed. MLD Ent sucks but I’m also happy for the Philippines.

[@martinhoDKB]

So now that Boys Planet from MNET and "Fantasy Boys" from MBC are coming at the same year and month now i wanna see what show is gonna be good in terms of enjoyment

[@angsilaw]

All of the contestants are lightskin (from photos I’ve seen) I hate the Philippines’s entertainment industry 😭

[@gwenmloveskpopandmore]

@@angsilaw they’re actually not that light skin I’ve been watching a bit of the show

[@angsilaw]

@@gwenmloveskpopandmore Is there at least a dark skin contestant and a contestant with natural curls please I’m begging for actual rep for the entire Philippines 😭

[@rejeylola]

actually ph did that via star circle quest which sandara park came from that show, 18 years ago

[@Carolina-bw6gy]

Not only sk companies and high powers in tv stations do rigged stuff in all types of korean reality shows, be it idol, korean hiphop, dance. The fans of kpop use of multiple ways to make their fav win, be it using apps or multiple spam accs, for votes, streams etc. Its a vicious cycle fed by the companies to show "how real fan you are". And this is how nugu idols and artists cant barely gain anything beyond just 5 minutes of fame in these bc they dont have: 1- marketing and companys influence; 2- have less money to pay the training, bc they have to work alongside idol work ; 3- they will start and end the reality less known in the midst of the instant recognition big 4 idols get. Still, kpop fans know what they are doing is delusional and how reality shows are corrupted but they watch anyway bc it is made in a invasive format. The trainees are young, suffering in battle royale esque entertainment challenges, they have to be 24/7 smiling and being interesting. The judges dont help at all, the idols are by themselves. And now the realities are multinational, its obvious how koreans and asian americans are prefered over chinese or japanese idols. The GP99 obviously made the chinese trainees the villains, editing all their scenes and script in a way to make them look rude or make a little mistake look like it was a failure.

[@aal1yah17]

I'm not a big watcher of survival shows like the Produce Series, Girls Planet 999 and others but I agree that if the producers focused more on the music it could potentially increase the viewership. However, I don't think these types of shows should keep going because it's a somewhat saturated market anyway because you're basically watching the same thing consistently in different formats. Also, the contestants shouldn't have to risk their mental and physical health just to be recognised for their talent and determination, it's really annoying how the producers only see the contestants as props that are marketable and profitable.

[@amalio_3098]

I honestly dont know how they didn’t prepare for the elementary kids to know that they didn’t win😂😂its obvios they would be devastated

[@meagain7669]

Wth who brought these children to suffer & cry on camera hella sick!!!

[@jchan8539]

I liked produce 48. I watched it because I knew of most of the contestants from the akb group. This show brought me over from the jpop side to kpop. The ones that keep my interest are ones with contestants I am familiar with, shows like road to kingdom, and queendom2.

[@melissalozano2847]

As someone I stan MONSTA X a group that debut due Survival Show, literally I stopped watching this kind of content, and them as idols, warned us (MBB, their fandom) on watching these kind of contents, there's a whole darkness behind them but they actually can CHANGE.

[@HoneypeachWH]

It always stood out to me the way that idols would talk about the shows that they were on and how it’s literal hell broadcasting.

[@SBBunny93]

I need more content from you lol. I’m talking like every other day. Lol your are the best!

[@sabrinaleedance]

The age discrimination part makes me angry lol. Like man I'm 27 I must be ancient AF 🤣 but it's not like that at all really when it comes to western entertainment. Alot of our most popular female pop artists are late 20s, 30s and even 40s

[@gwenmloveskpopandmore]

Thank God Yang isn’t the CEO of YGE anymore 😮‍💨

[@ACEsParkJunheeWreckedMeHard]

Yeah he was ... weird. He for example dissed the CEO of my ulti-group's company for being poor and made people down who helped her. It was lucky at the end that one member of the group and their CEO menaged to get him to shut his mouth. In the audition round on MIXNINE he said some bullshit to the members of the group and one member gave it back to him and YG than stoped talking. And later on the CEO of my ulti's company who had 2 dudes winning in the show really destroyed YG because she was the only one who even read the terms and conditions of the contract and said to everyone "Did you even read it? Nobody should sign the contract! It's full of so many wrong things and if all the companies and idols would sign it than it will be the end of each of those companies!" she argued a lot with YG and instead of listening he just got mad at her for pointing out what was wrong in the contract. At the end MIXNINE failed because of her nobody signed the contract (luckly)

[@gwenmloveskpopandmore]

@@ACEsParkJunheeWreckedMeHard ace deserve better

[@newjeansfan238]

Thank you so much! I love your essay specially this! I don't watch survival show, i heard about Produce series'cheating but they continue with GP999, this one even i didn't see it, i heard so much about GP999 but i know Kep1er as new group with their song, it's after their debut that i heard they came from GP999 survival show

[@AxelXionSora]

I heard by a trainee that Idol School was wasn’t even supposed to be a survival show until the trainees got there and were told SURPRISE!! This is a survival show. It was in a Grazy Grace video who was the one who interviewed Alex who by the way is the idol AleXa who you definitely should go listen to.

[@oodo2908]

This harder than modern USA basic training. Even has some elements of special forces training!

[@DuxGalt]

I haven't watched any survival shows but I've watched lots of clips from them and know about many of them. I also follow a lot of idols and groups. I think there are some problems with the concept of survival shows partly because every part of the show has such a different view of their part. Like the judges care about finding a group that will do well and have wide interest so things like being old are a problem because if you are a woman in your 30s you have to make choices about having children and family which would make being an standard idol nearly impossible. Then from the view of the contestant they see it as a their chance to be seen and get picked up by some company by showing their skills and talent but because there are so many skilled people its not possible to bee seen. From the producers of the show's prospective its just about views and drama that drives them, so you get the editing. Lastly there is the viewer which I think goes into it wanting to find idol's they care about and support because of their traits and whatnot. All of those perspectives conflict in the conflicts brought up in this video. I think the only way to make it work is if you can get everyone on the same page on what they are producing, watching, participating and getting from the production. It's not likely that would happen though because ultimately to some its about running a business and to others its about talent and skill, and both sides have to meet in the middle. Lastly and perhaps a hot take. I don't mind the problems related to extreme physical and mental hardships associated with the filming. I think its ultimately an unfortunate but necessary filter for who is fit to be an Idol and who is not. Like just because you are attractive and talented is not enough you also have to smile through the pain and be able to in spite of your human weaknesses appear as an Idol who endure. I think this is what makes the ones we do see so successful because they can work 40 hours straight. It shows what humans can do if they are oriented properly. That discipline is what I find most appealing from kpop Idols. Particularly the bonds formed between members which honestly resemble that of soldiers who stormed beaches and fought with blood sweat and tears, together. If that bond is formed it keeps the group together, if anyone is at all weak then the group falls apart. From my understand and research on how groups are formed from trainees it does appear that's actually a strategy used by the companies. Every day could be your last as a trainee, through that mutual fear you and your peers seek to do the best, you loose friends over time to the cuts, things get harder and you still work hard even though there is still a chance you get nothing. Only the strongest make it into a group that will debut. So yes on one hand its a mega corporation putting young people through a meat grinder. However what's coming out is some of the most disciplined and talented people, in the world. Idol's global success and captivation is proof of that. I think if we lobbied so hard to stop the cruelness you might end up throwing that part out with it too and you end up artists who won't be able to live up to people expectations and groups that fall apart way more often and definitely not Idol's worthy of the name.

[@XiomaraThaGoddessMeow]

Yeeees, I needed something to watch 😩✨🔥💚🔥✨

[@ichi_san]

these shows are so extreme. idol school sounds like an actual squid game minus the death. thank you for sharing this im shocked

[@le96g]

I love the chinese and japanese girls for speaking out. The koreans one can't do it without blurring who they are. The chinese girls were wild, they exposed all.

[@imveryanxious]

i'm so happy i never gave these shows any views, disgusting industry

[@Fuzzy_Llama]

I learnt about these years ago. Stopped watching such shows altogether.

[@helenmaghinay7304]

I've only watched one KPop Survival Show ever (Kpop Star 6), and after that, I was done. It's so stressful to watch, the format is long and winding, I just want to watch the performanced and skip all the "drama." I don't really get why people watch these, knowing that: a) Most of the promises or "prizes" don't happen anyway (debut, showcase, contract, what have you) b) They're RIGGED.

[@TuberoseKisser]

I never watched any of these shows, I want to listen to good, professionally made kpop, I don't really see the appeal in these type of survival shows.

[@HectorH-M]

The same Im Dayoung from Cosmic Girls. That's crazy

[@destinyhntr]

I think you should say "welcome to midnight theories and if you're returning, it's good to have you back." The repetition can get grating.

[@vittoriaangeloni374]

My personal opinion on survival shows: I like them and I don't think companies should stop doing this. Problems such as Evil Editing and mistreatment are big ones, but stopping producing these shows it's not the solution. Insted, I think that is beautiful that fans of Korean Survival Shows are talking about this. In other countries, such as Italy (where I am from), fans don't even think about these issues and producers can legally rig everything changing the rules every episode and nobody complains about this. Survival Shows are made only to create a group who can be successful but they also showcase trainees' abilities. Just look at Produce 48. Some small groups like EVERGLOW, LIGHTSUM, Purple Kiss and soloists like AleXa debuted with an already small but strong fanbase because some members prevously were contestants on that show. Also Somi and (G)I-DLE with PD101, Lapillus and Cherry Bullet with GP999. The perfect survival show will never exists, but if we continue to make videos like this and spread information, we can stop things like rigging, mistreatment and minors as contestants. But what I want to say is that not every survival show is bad and they are usually a good way to gain fans and they permits trainees from small companies to have a spotlight. PS I think that the first way to make survival shows more fair would be broadcasting them live and pre - recording just the preparation of the performances, the majority of survival shows do like this in Italy and I think it's a pretty good method, 'cause you can't control what happens live and you can't cut judges' speech after the performance. PPS Sorry from bad English, as you can imagine, it's not my first language.

[@inge9682h]

13:46 LMFAO THIS IS STILL THE FUNNIEST THING EVERRR 2JIN NEEDS AN AWARD FOR THAT ACTING

[@gwenmloveskpopandmore]

Welcome back midnight!! 🔮❤️

[@rumyum]

Im so angry for these contestants! Imagine enduring all of those harsh and inhumane conditions with little to no pay only to get evil edited or completely ignored. Its a shame these companies don't value the people making them money as much as they should. Its insane

[@Beomtology]

Seungri’s audacity is crazy because he wasn’t even supposed to be in bigbang since he had no talent at all 💀💀

[@rumyum]

I didnt finish the video yet but these conditions are insane. Those women are strong ah!!!!

[@NanaAddaeMinta-hi8cy]

The rap part was actually kinda funny

[@MichaelaBelle]

justice for my girl cai bing

[@NotAnotherKuromi]

I just want to point out in that that clip from the grazygrace KZbin channel, the channel name is very very difficult to read, being grey text & with that moving black & white background!

[@HailToTheMeep]

I have long suspected that idols in the kpop industry are not respected because they are treated like what that disgusting PD indicated: To satisfy the sexual longings of Koreans without feeling morally inferior to themselves and the world ("healthy p*rn). Self producing idol groups are changing this notion, and good PD with the right missions will help them with platforms. I could not bring mcan not finish this video. It is just TOO MUCH.

[@julia.e.carpenter]

If they’re capable and mentally stable then i supposed it’s okay. My main issue is the age limit, since before they’ve reached maturity, they could have hardships and can’t endure the idol life. If you’re in America, you could be involved in illegal substance, but if you’re in Korea, you could suffer from several cases of mental illness, confidence issue and etc. I thought 15 would be the best age limit but even Ahyeon from BabyMonster had health problems and can’t be involved in the group for six months. They need a break, like Lia from Itzy. After seeing Universe Ticket, i am shook to find four to five contestants are 11 to 13. Seowon made it and she’s 11, i can’t imagine what will become of the industry years later. Back in 2009, i thought Krystal and Sulli from f(x), Suzy from Miss A, Jiyoung from Kara or Sohyun from 4Minute would be youngest maknaes at 14.

[@Xiu7ww]

I feel like a lot of people stoped watching survival shows after what happened with X1 and produce x 101 it caused to a lot of people trauma and the fact that the line up of most of the produce series were rigged didn’t even help sad

[@NFKTN]

9:47 I highly recommend you guys to watch this PDX101 documentary by MBC which is found in YT

[@bunbund5776]

I'm suprised I just found out that Alexa was on produce 48

[@KaiBerries]

The fact the producer of one if the shows made it for something not sfw is just sick, the disturbs me so much..

[@HobieInTheBox]

"HEALTHY P*RN"?!?!? 💀 I'M SORRY???

[@bastetowl3258]

the problem with the korean entertainment industry is that it’s extremely hierarchical and inefficient. in japan they would spend half the time it takes to film than korea does, maybe even less, and there are much better worker protections in china. the salaries for idols are also much higher in china, so they’re better off trying to make it big in china tbh. also the male version of produce 101 is not the same as the female one. the female one has the contestants showing way more skin and doing sexualized choreo whereas the male contestants do more cool and confident choreo fully covered. no women watching that show thinks of it as porn. it’s men that often sexualize everything about women from body parts to dance moves to professions and everything in between

[@asif0921]

Wang Yale getting evil editing for saying "why?" was the absolute worst 😢

[@flipside3512]

why I think it's style?

[@amirfakhribadri7994]

NEED TO REPOST AGAIN TO BIG MEDIA SOCIAL SHOW TO MNET IS PROBLEM .

[@bluebluechicken]

gunwook jumpscare on wild idol omg 😭😭😭

[@bluebluechicken]

wait another boys planet trainer jumpscare😭😭 was that seunghwan omg

[@bluebluechicken]

NA KAMDEN???

[@rejeylola]

since idol school was mentioned, you can watch in jessica lee's youtube channel on her experience in idol school (search jessica lee idol school)

[@wattswo]

I honestly have stopped watching survival shows for several years now. They are trash reality TV that are exploitative.

[@nothing4120]

correct me if I'm wrong but Pd101 S1 highly resembles the rounds and system that Sixteen had, no? maybe except for some aspects like the photoshoot one. Though, I'm aware that YG technically did the whole thing first. But it is quite interesting to consider that JYP might have inspired/influenced the format of pd101 and the shows that followed.

[@aghasearmyshawolblinkonce8039]

18:15 omg who are these two beautiful women? 😄

[@afiamahmood1313]

I don't know the other one, but one of them is Kahi.

[@maayafajfer2922]

Dude I feel bad that K-pop trainees have to go through these things when they are on survival shows

[@ACEsParkJunheeWreckedMeHard]

It's not only them. Japanese shows sometimes can also have problems. Not as bad as in Korean shows since Japanese shows are a bit more fair to the contestants, but especialy as Produce 101 Japan season 1 started to air everyone begun to spread crap ton of fake rumors. At that time X1 disbanded cause of the big Produce 101-scandal in Korea and so people took it too personal and begun to threaten the Japanese production-team with stuff like "We will destroy this show and TBS (The Japanese TV-channel) if the show is also rigged!", "We know for sure that they will also rig the Japanese show", "I bet the Japanese show is fake as fuck too" etc. And around the same time the majority of the foreign or mixed participants also had allready left the show (either on personal reasons or cause they just got eliminated in the process of the show) and so people, mostly from Japan, begun to also make stupid rumors about the leaving of the foreign and mied participants like "they probably all left cause they got bullied for being foreigners". People especially took the rumor too far as a Korean contestant who left the show on personal reasons without saying why left and went back to Korea. People who were his fans from hos previous boygroup than said they saw how he had the blinds and curtains closed in his apartment and wasn't leaving the house and they noticed how often a pizza-delivery came to his place and when he first ever walked out after like 2 or 3 weeks some fand claimed he was looking depressed to them. People took this too far and thought it was cause he might got bullied for being Korean. However this was of cause not true, but people were still making a lot bad rumors how thos was part of making the show riged and whats not. Later on the production team of the show held an official statement that Produce 101 Japan has nothing to do with the scandal from the Korean show and that people also should stop making all those rumors about the eliminated participants since they didn't got bullied and left on other terms. But some people at first didn't understood it and still said that they belived that Produce 101 Japan was also riged and that the statements were all a lie to cover up something, but thats not true. People still couldn't give up saying that PDJ would be also riged, even after the first season was over, some people even thought it must've been riged just cause the theme-song center Ren Kawashiri was also the most popular participant and won a place in the winner group called JO1. Luckly people stoped making wrong acusations and rumors when Produce Japan season 2 had aired

[@anukasmunakas]

yes, X1's contract was long but kinda misleading to leave out that the contract was 5 years together, with the first 2,5 years as solely X1, and the last 2,5 years promotng in X1 AND personal projects (as in, their already existing groups or their new groups)

[@ojjokie]

6:40 thats liang qiao not liang jiao

[@jenniekimchi5222]

24:08 um wtf 🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢

[@calripplebear1293]

The reality is, the lifestyle of an idol 'pushes them to the brink'. These people literally get next to no sleep regularly to keep up with the pace of learning new songs, being able to dance, sing, and memorize choreography. It's a merciless industry and only the most motivated and determined (along with looks) survive. Whether it is fair or right is not the question.

[@miaemblem8072]

24:05 this quote is.... Scary and disgusting

[@yuridang1408]

overcommercialisation and exploitation is a feature of the Kpop industry. Survival shows just show a bit more of that underbelly.

[@kirilvelinov7774]

New Kpop group 2024: Three of Hearts Leader:Hitomi Honda Nako Yabuki Rio Sakurai In 2020 they had a different lineup. Olivia Rodrigo left to pursue a solo career and was replaced by Rio Sakurai

[@2xsunny]

I'll never forget the fatshaming that happened on the Twice survival show

[@fyretrail8973]

Just a comment, but X1’s contract, although it was 5 years, was non exclusive after 2.5 years. So after that, they would’ve been able to promote with other groups.