The Debutante Who Made Awful Choices - Jon Ronson | On the Edge podcast 275

Jon Ronson is back on the show to discuss Carol Howe, a woman whose series of bad decisions led her into the heart of white supremacy cult. SPONSOR: If you’re ever injured in an accident, you can check out Morgan & Morgan. You can submit a claim in 8 clicks or less without having to leave your couch. For more info, go to ForThePeople.com/andrewgold
But could Carol Howe have stopped the Oklahoma disaster?
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Jon Ronson wrote some of my favourite books, including The Psychopath Test and So, You've Been Publicly Shamed. Check out the Debutante here: www.audible.co.uk/pd/The-Debu...
Follow Jon Ronson:
/ jonronson
www.jonronson.com
Andrew Links:
/ andrewgold1
/ andrewgold_ok
/ andrewgold_ok
/ andrewgold
#truecrime #debutante #jonronson
0:00 Klan didn't know Jon was Jewish!
4:42 The 2 mysteries of the Debutante
6:50 A series of VERY bad life choices
9:30 Joined Temple of Psychic Youth cult
12:20 Something happens (white kids)
15:00 Meeting Dennis Mahon (nutcase)
17:00 Why she joined white cult
19:45 Why Jon interviews scary people
22:50 Carol: leaves Dennis...then THIS
25:00 The truth about Carol's feet
28:00 Dennis STALKS Carol
30:00 Tragic End to Undercover Informant
33:15 How Jon got Carol's private tapes
36:00 Carol hooks up with Andy the German
37:20 Oklahoma City B0mbing
39:30 If they'd listened to Carol...
41:15 Why the b0mbing happened / incels
44:00 WACO & David Koresh
46:10 Who was John Doe 2?

[@AndrewGold1]

Do you remember the incident? Comments below! SPONSOR: If you’re ever injured in an accident, you can check out Morgan & Morgan. You can submit a claim in 8 clicks or less without having to leave your couch. For more information, go to ForThePeople.com/andrewgold

[@caterinadelgalles8783]

Wank. Just suck his dick 😅

[@kieranhart5776]

Andrew, please try to get an interview with celebrity Jason Beghe. That will be a legendary interview. He’s hilarious and a totally awesome person.

[@heatherwhelan1376]

That's a big law firm here in Florida. Congratulations on the new sponsor.

[@isabellalive]

I am a Morgan & i approve of this message.

[@Cheryl407]

Oklahoma City is not forgotten by many of us, and I am one who lived 5 blocks north of the Twin Towers Bombing.

[@JM-pg5rc]

Yes, that must have been a British centric opinion. People in the US have not forgotten.

[@Cheryl407]

@@JM-pg5rc I remember it so vividly and still think about how horrendous it was. It was upsetting to hear them refer to it as “forgotten”.

[@two-toned9645]

Yes, it was a bombing.

[@TheBreechie]

I’m not sure it’s English-centric to “forget” so much as this is very typical news heard about America so it doesn’t register as a significant event so much as more of the same. It qualifies to other countries but Americans, having lived through this and many other situations like it, have more experience and quantify it…

[@KLmoxie]

I don’t think it’s said in the context that you receive it, more so that it’s been forgotten in the mainstream news and top chats/topics of discussion.

[@JM-pg5rc]

By the third time you both said people forgot about the Oklahoma City bombing, I said out loud, “who the f forgot about the bombing?” It must be a UK thing or maybe your age Andrew. I can tell you that those of us that watched the aftermath of the bombing with the children being carried out and the grieving parents never forgot. Most shopping centers, schools and government buildings built barriers so that vehicles could not get as close to buildings as McVeigh’s. It’s been a constant reminder since.

[@2degucitas]

And 9/11 was NOT shortly after Oklahoma bombing. He's wrong on both!

[@MK-Hogan]

Yep, the major buildings in Chicago all have short steel or concrete pillar things spaced around the permitters.

[@LastingHope]

Yes! I don’t know anyone that’s forgot about it. It’s forever etched in my memory.

[@ac1646]

I'm a Brit and I've not forgotten. I recognized the photo on the thumbnail immediately. It was horrific. I remember the initial conviction of it being the work of international terrorists and then the grim truth emerging that it was an American national. It was (and still is) difficult to get your head around that. I'm older than Andrew though so maybe the comment about his age is accurate.

[@alidabotes6264]

I'm South African & I remember it & was horrified. The individual stories of the parents who lost children have stayed with me like the 911 horror. It affects people over the world & stays with you. It could be that I was older & had 2 kiddies.

[@carolinegodden4364]

I'm old enough to remember the horror of the Oklahoma bombing

[@1ACL]

No one forgot the OK city bombing.

[@A.Rasberry]

Who’s forgotten the Oklahoma city bombing? My route back & forth from home to college, I drove past the Branch Davidian compound seeing all the press & rubber-neckers such as McVeigh sitting there. I’ll never forget either tragedy… David Duke also showed up in my little college town twice while i was there to throw a casual Klan Rally down our main street. Blew my mind coming from a big city where all that seemed very far away. Clearly not.

[@karentracey9948]

Wow God bless ❤

[@JustMeELC]

You need to understand he is in the UK

[@A.Rasberry]

@@JustMeELC I do understand, truly. My impression was that he was speaking of Americans he spoke to during his research which made me wonder who over here forgot. I just happen to have that Waco/Oklahoma link being in the area and that I felt it very strongly as a college aged young adult. Not to mention the added Klan Rally witnessing. It was a very strange university experience.

[@noneyun9943]

Do you remember who was paying Timothy McVeigh’s mortgage the six months prior to the OK city bombing? The FEDS! That was one of the biggest false flag events they ever staged

[@JamesRichardWiley]

Being a prom queen does not make you a critical thinker.

[@carolinegodden4364]

Good point

[@charisma-hornum-fries]

Being a critical thinker doesn't make you a prom queen. Or whatever. You can be both and you can become neither.

[@doxasophosmoros]

Why is he using a photo of Australian SUPERMODEL ABBY LEE KERSHAW? thats not the police woman, its an aussie model!!! CLICKBAIT

[@Will0wFire]

Went straight to Audible and am listening to The Debutante now. I remember the Oklahoma bombing very clearly. It was the first time i was properly made aware of the death penalty and began to have thoughts about it as a punishment.

[@BooksofHighStrangeness]

"Properly made aware" of what exactly? How some innocent people MAY be murdered by a system that FEATURES front-line MURDER by our American cops ROUTINELY. Justified. Officer Safety. Administration Duty 4 a Life No American cop in 2023 is likely in anything close to a position of power without being a freemason. Further, The REAL purpose of 9/11 & Afghanistan/Iraq was to commit 1 final and grand FLEECE of the American people prior to Ripping the Operation Paperclip/Colonia Dignidad Veil off of your "programmed eyes." My sole brother and sole sibling died for a lie in serving the WMD-WAR CRIME IN IRAQ. TRUMP IS INDICTED? NOT 1 SAUDI FOR 9/11? 2 CIA ASSETS WORKED WITH 19? NOT 1 WEAPON OF MASS DESTRUCTION? IN MY EYES, THIS BASTARD GOVT AND CONSTITUTION KILLED MY BROTHER. KILLED THE PRE-1945 SOUL OF AMERICA.

[@artisanshrew]

*Me too!* *I was gonna but it on audible and was like - free w my subscription!? Well that's even better!* I LOVE EVERYTHING RONSON WRITES!*

[@JuliaGulia310]

I was 31 when the building in OC was bombed. It was a huge story all over the U.S. Seeing the aftermath was horrendous. I wouldn't expect it to make as big an impact in the UK. For example, I remember at least one huge terrorism incident in the UK, in the underground maybe, but can't remember the date. But I won't forget April 19, 1995, two years after Waco.

[@ac1646]

It did make a big impact in the UK. I'm also baffled as to why they mention it's forgotten. I can only assume it's an age issue as Andrew mentioned. Until then I had no idea that fertilizer could be so deadly. I'm pretty certain, but I'll have to check, that tight restrictions were placed on the purchase of it here in the UK.

[@scotishjohn]

​@@ac1646 😊

[@elliesimpson1313]

Then Columbine in 1999.

[@jesshart5736]

I can assure you Americans have never forgotten OKC bombing. Never forget 🇺🇸

[@scarba]

Cheated and listened to the podcast first. Ideally this conversation would have been another five hours, can’t get enough of it. Both lovely guys. Isn’t there a DJ called Ron Johnson? I always think twice when remembering Jon Ronson‘s name!

[@AndrewGold1]

aw thank you so much!

[@marcmielke]

A senator, he's far on the right.

[@hanagloriaedelblum5693]

We have a compassionate courageous senator named Ron Johnson too.

[@hanagloriaedelblum5693]

I forgot about the Oklahoma bombing too. Strange how we normalize atrocities the more they happen.

[@ProfessorCupcakeTV]

The cult she joined “Temple of Psychic Youth” was indeed a cult.

[@marcmielke]

Looking back on it, they didn't cover it up. They put out the disc of Jim Jones final service.

[@1WEdwards]

I will never forget Oklahoma or Waco. My British husband doesn’t have clear memories of either so I can understand why these guys don’t.

[@charisma-hornum-fries]

I'm Danish and I was an exchange student in WV in 94-95. I experienced a school shooting and the bombing. Both the agency and my Danish family wanted me home but none of them understood the experiences as my American family and friends did. We needed the time together for support. Eventually my Danish parents understood that and told the agency to let me stay.

[@Elisa-dp9oc]

The okc bombing is one of those things I'll always remember where I was and what I was doing when It happened. Maybe because I'm in Kansas but, I don't know anyone that doesn't remember it!

[@hamishandangie]

This was amazing Andrew...I held on to every breath....how exciting to have an interview with someone who's life was so interesting..most of us couldn't imagine.......getting Denton/ Parkinson vibes...

[@charisma-hornum-fries]

I lived 2 states over when he bombed Oklahoma City. I will never forget that terror.

[@jojowynne233]

Loving your chats! The story of The Debutante sounds very interesting. I love Audible. I normally just buy what I want to listen to, as I watch KZbin and listen to other true crime podcasts for free. I’m an Aussie and I haven’t forgotten about the Oklahoma bombing 😞

[@MG-1907]

Fyi the ATF were not in office that day... Come to OKC so you can learn the truths not these false rumors.

[@JuliaGulia310]

How many of us Americans give a lot of thought to the terror attack in London in July 2005? 52 dead and over 700 injured. I remembered something terrible happened in the London Underground but no details until I looked it up. I'm shocked that it was 18 years ago. I would have guessed maybe 10 years.

[@LilyGazou]

I remember. I remember a lot of the terror attacks in Europe. Bataclan theater.

[@artisanshrew]

💜❤️💜❤️💜❤️💜❤️💜❤️ *I am such a HUGE FAN OF JON RONSON, this interview started playing off of my playlist - long after I fell asleep - and EVEN IN MY DREAMS, I was ranting and raving to everyone I knew about how much I love his work!* *I also love his voice, his personality, his humor - everything about this man I just love!* *I would be so thrilled to meet him one day and I'd give anything to pick his brain and ask him questions!!!* *I would LOVE for him to do a deep dive on Ivermectin or vaccine injuries! The world wants to know the truth and if ANYONE could figure it out! Knowing he is not a Conservative would also make it least bias!* *Ronson is the BEST!!!* *Now I have something great to entertain me while I clean out my garage all day!* *THANK YOU!!!* ❤️❤️❤️❤️

[@celitacantrill10]

There was a nursery school on the 2nd floor. Horrific, I'll never forget that day.

[@anitaevans2432]

Jon Ronson has always been my favourite journalist. I love his wonderful sense of humour, his self deprecation, his ability to investigate interesting subjects via a quirky angle...& of course his subtle Welsh accent. I could listen to him for hours 💖

[@julieshearer9964]

I remember watching the news and there had also been a childcare centre in that building. There were bits of toys and stuff and adults rushing out carrying injured or dead kids?? Im possibly going insane and have just dreamt that but im pretty sure 🤔🤔but fk, you never know...😂🤣😂

[@Elisa-dp9oc]

You are remembering correctly 😢

[@julieshearer9964]

@@Elisa-dp9oc ohhhh , poor wee babes 😪❤️

[@ashleyw6160]

No love, you're definitely not going insane. My heart was so broken seeing those poor babies. I felt so helpless, knowing there was absolutely nothing I could do to help bc I'm in Tennessee & was barely a teenager at the time. 🥺💔

[@sweetpotatofries99]

No, it's true. There's a famous image from the bombing of a firefighter holding a toddler, limp and bloody.

[@kweemykooffee8058]

On the flip side- Patricia Hearst & the SLA, Bromfmann galz & NEXIVM, etc.

[@zippymacadoo6336]

Dry dark humor. Love it!

[@sjohnson65456]

Americans will never forget the Oklahoma City bombing. I was what 7 years old, and will never forget not just what happened, but the feeling behind it. 🇺🇲

[@TheDmccoy]

My friend lost her best friend in the bombing. Luckily my friend didn’t go into work that day but dealt with survivor’s guilt for a long time. Such a senseless tragedy.

[@PaigeLovelace]

I have never forgotten Oklahoma City

[@karentracey9948]

Yeah i remember it ,when my grown up children mention day care,im like no! Ill look after them,killing me at 60 but,i remember.

[@jackieann5494]

Nobody could EVER forget ...the images , the horror , the heartache .

[@tracybailey680]

Jon Ronson is my favourite storyteller of all time!

[@marfta7414]

I think one more category, although smaller, for the case of someone being vulnerable to high-demand religions or cults is being uninformed to religion and cults in general. This was the case for me, as my non-exposure through age 17 caused me to be amazed when introduced to this group (JW) and seeing that they all were so sure of having "the truth" and seemed to know the bible inside and out, and have a world wide brotherhood. I didn't thing any other religions had their conviction. It was only after leaving 15 yrs later that I took a deep dive into religious groups and now realize that there are soooo many groups that "know" they have the truth and "back it up" using the bible or some type of group-thought technique, that feel only they have a true brotherhood, that the bible supports their teachings, and that they always speak in agreement. If I had learned (perhaps in my young teens) about the importance of being cautious about dedicating ones self to a group, I may have made different decisions. Unfortunately, that was pre-internet so it would have been much more challenging. But, with all the information available these days.... "Listen Linda!": When considering joining a group that may require you to see things there way only, and don't allow for your own critical thinking, do a deep research first, not after! It's super easy to see only the positives at first, only to discover the negatives and untruths afterward. Yet, you'll never get back those years spent in the group. It is also very important to find out what happens if a member decides to disagree and/or leave the group. This is a huge red flag to the fact that they are high-control group or cult. In my case, when I left all my friends and JW family considered me invisible or dead (not even saying hello). Any group that has that practice should be thoroughly researched, including seeing what ex-members have to say (although, most likely the group will say that ex-members are liars, angry, want to hurt the group etc., which is actually another red flag.

[@carolinegodden4364]

Thanks for you insight and context. What number of religions are there, I wonder... all man made. Not many actually teach us to have a daily relationship with Father Mother God and we don't need a go between. Church groups are great for fellowship... the issue is learning to discern those of integrity. 🐦 in Melbourne on the 🏖 2nd ☕ 12:05 Q

[@natashapeeters988]

I was born in and got out at 17 years old. In the eighties. It is fascinating to me that someone could enter the cult now.

[@sheilasmith7779]

Marfta: Had you realized the J.W. Bible, as their source material of "truth," was a significantly alteration of accepted Bible scripture, would it have made a difference in your faith? I am not making an argument in favor of Christianity. My argument is that to be "Christian," scripture is accepted as the source, of God's word, and the foundation of our belief. With the understanding that there have been minor corrections to scripture over the centuries, all versions, KJ, ESV, NLV, etc are primarily in alignment. J.W.s made their own Bible, eliminating, commonly accepted verses to suit their own theology. I have noticed that Christians have beliefs based on what they were taught, not on scripture. They have read very little scripture. Just my thoughts.

[@yikesmcgee8927]

I’ve lived in Arkansas and the ozarks for 25 years, and I’ve never heard of Elohim City!!! This is wild

[@kinkykitty77]

I think cuz it's in Oklahoma about 35 miles from Ft Smith. Doesn't surprise me a damn bit knowing what I learned about Harrison when I moved here a few months ago.

[@aerorella9998]

I moved from California to Northern Arkansas, around two hours from Harrison, forty-three years ago. Talk about a cultural shock. I met my husband here. His distant family is from Harrison and Marshal. I was either asleep in History class, or absent at a very inconvenient time, because I didn’t know that Harrison was where the KKK originated from until I saw it on the History Channel several years later. One of my husband’s cousins was the Mayor of Harrison at one time. We’ve never heard anything bad about the place. Been there several times. Whatever you can find there, you can find anywhere. I still believe the numbers are few. Every place (and Party) has their bad apples. Most people are good, and NOT racist…like we are constantly being led to believe.

[@kinkykitty77]

@@aerorella9998 while I was in South Carolina, I watched a KZbin video on worst places to live in Arkansas. I was just watching it and goofing around because my family lives here. I had to make an emergency move here because my mom and dad are sick. I lived here when I was a teenager in 93 and I don't remember learning that in history here or in history anywhere else. I ended up dismissing with the KZbin video said and then when I got here I was educated. I live in Conway and I passed one of the signs towards Harrison everyday on my way to work and some days I feel like I might go on an adventure one day but then I remind myself I probably shouldn't. I may take your word for it and go adventuring because I do not get out very much.

[@aerorella9998]

@@kinkykitty77 I really think you should, Rhiannon. (Beautiful name, btw.) And if you decide you’re not comfortable looking around there for whatever reason, it’s only a half hour past that, into Missouri, where you’ll run into Branson. Have you heard of Branson? It’s a blast! My husband and I go there all the time.😃

[@krexoriginal]

On the topic of people forgetting about the Oklahoma City and _both_ Twin Tower attacks (first was a failed truck bombing in the underground parking structure). I don't think amybody who was _alive_ at the time and about late teens or older has forgotten about them. They may be a more distant memory for some than others, but the will never forget. Those born after are a different story.

[@DoraSometimes]

I'm from Croatia(so quite far, far away) and I remember Oklahoma City bombing and Timothy McVeigh. Maybe I haven't forgotten because things like that never happened in my country and I'm always paying attention to all the insanity coming from US. This was such a pleasure to watch/listen. You two are fantastic narrators and it's was so easy to follow the story, no matter how many digressions there were😉

[@1ACL]

This was hysterical! Love him! ...and it figures a Colorado almost cult figures into the story...I live in CO now, and it's a wild west kinda place.

[@kieranhart5776]

Hey Andrew, I’m knew to your channel and am loving it. Thanks for exposing Scientology and other cults for what they really are. It’s a great outlet for someone who may be considering joining to check out before doing so. You really need to interview Jason Beghe. He’s my favourite x-Scientologist celebrity… He’s hilarious.

[@elliesimpson1313]

Yes. Great guy and actor.

[@Penhauer]

Get yourself someone who looks at you the way Andrew looks at Jon ❤

[@beckiskiss]

Two of them at the same time ought to be 🤯

[@joward481]

Wow great interview thank-you really excellent 👏👏. Signing up for Audible now so i can listen to the podcast ✌️.

[@celitacantrill10]

Andrew, I meant to tell you that I enjoyed this interview so much I watched every one of them

[@nerm5530]

Whoop! This should be a good one !

[@sedg83]

Hearing you do a Morgan and Morgan ad was surreal. I've always thought they were local to Fort Myers... I guess they're a lot bigger than i realized

[@lil_debbie]

This is so good!!!

[@alysoncaddick6344]

Thank you Andrew. Feeling poorly today, so sat listening to this funny and interesting interview. Can't wait for the day that you can get Louis Theroux onto your show! Would be the icing on the cake imo. Your gentle humour is so similar.

[@D2theBomb]

#LegendVLegend

[@studiosandi]

All of his books are brilliant!

[@anitaevans2432]

There certainly are. Jon Ronson is the best 😊

[@adamdales2626]

Borderlines force people to live emotionally entagled with them. If your mental health suffers they will never leave you alone, this is how they feel secure in relationships.😾😹😻🙀

[@conclavecabal.h0rriphic]

I’ve never forgotten the damn Oklahoma City bombing. It is one of my earliest memories.

[@svetlanastojanoska7185]

Wow awsome interview thanks Andrew 👍

[@newnormal1841]

Hard to believe a little truck Disintetgrated a reinforced cement concret rebarb structure. Think Theres no way. The building was prewired. 🤺💐

[@bloochoob]

I love Jon’s books too 🤓 I saw that Louis Theroux episode when he was with that family at their house, and they asked him if he was Jewish, pretty scary!

[@LostMittens]

I just watched a Tedtalk of Doug’s today about psychopaths earlier today. Now I’m watching him on your video. So cool 😎 Great Tedtalk btw!

[@MissOrchid12]

I LOVE Ronson's books 💙

[@DestonieSalazar]

Any American that lived during that time has the OK city bombing visual burned into their permanent memory. It was the largest domestic attack that we had experienced to that date. I know you weren’t trying to be dismissive Andrew but you’ve got a lot of US viewers that that comment found a bit tone deaf. Much love to you and keep exposing these dangerous organizations.

[@JoSpring]

I remember the Oklahoma City bombing like it was yesterday. My ex-husband was one of the MPs at McVay's execution. Also, I now have a crush on your guest.

[@ediesaffron3593]

Was he really executed tho… ? 🤔

[@JoSpring]

@@ediesaffron3593 Yes

[@kathleencurtis4493]

Your studio looks GREAT!

[@kirstyleemurray6638]

Great interview

[@theanthonyrrmillsshow3876]

Very interesting, thanks for this video.

[@angiejones5918]

Living in the UK...I remember the Oklahoma bombing. Is it an age thing? If you are old enough you remember but if you are younger and relying on history books, it is unknown.

[@melaniebrehl6632]

I love Jon Ronson

[@NapaValleyVegan]

It is interesting how you made it sound like the ATF politely asked her if she would like to risk her life & be an informant. Our ABC organizations in the US do not ask. They most likely had crimes they claimed they could prosecute her for unless she did her duty & complied!

[@iainholmes2735]

Andrew, this is Ace. Always good to hear from Jon. Just havin an ideal morn: a scotch egg, a Newcy Brown and a bit of interesting stuff on the 'Tube we call You.

[@TheBreechie]

The studio is of a more elevated class but I kind of appreciated the direct cam. You wear your emotions on your face and it’s rather delightful to watch and mirror your reactions… loved the fancy studio, but I love the more authentic facial shots

[@krisbest6405]

Fabulous talk. Both very charismatic . Origin of swastika is interesting. L have Jewish grandparent and Mom said she was but NEVER followed any dogma or holidays etc. Plus German links. Surname Hoffman....Hoff River.

[@sweettea527]

I couldn't figure out what looked different, Andrew. You look so nice clean shaven!

[@jacquelinedesanctis7082]

You look handsome Andrew. A very fascinating interview. Thank you. PS... Sorry for the "handsome" 😂 no I am not weird but yes, this conversation was OTT mesmerizing.

[@themoviedealers]

BIGGGGG Ronson fan!

[@megankwisdom]

fascinating story, thank you

[@PaigeLovelace]

I remember Oklahoma City vividly and I also remember the story of Carol Howe and John ronson did her story fantastic

[@jessiefrye3045]

If you've ever seen a picture of The Firefighter holding Bailee Almon, you won't ever forget the OKC bombing.

[@sweetpotatofries99]

I hope he's doing well

[@bloochoob]

Been listening to this Debutante/Carol Howe story on audible. Absolutely berserk! I’m about halfway through. One of my friend’s crazy odd brothers was into Psychic TV in the 80s, and he knew Genesis P Orridge and other weirdos connected to that scene. If you delve in, you’ll probably find more creepy occult/culty craziness all connected around that, Austin Osman Spare, Aleister Crowley, Jack Parsons and his wife Cameron - Jack and Cameron were friends with L Ron Hubbard too. Quite a bit of poss video material for you, they’re absolutely bonkers people

[@elliesimpson1313]

I love Jon Ronson!! I've really enjoyed his books.

[@norseman43211]

Great podcast. Great Guest as well.

[@WarRadish]

Jon Ronson! One of the most interesting people I've never met.

[@zareenwilhelm5811]

“I could be doing a boring job now but I’m out with a horrible person and we’re having a chat” 😂

[@NatureFreak1127]

Why not both. 😆 Most of us do both.

[@zareenwilhelm5811]

@@NatureFreak1127 That takes too much energy! Think of a woman from the nineties, sitting in her couch on the phone, gossiping. He’s painfully hilarious.

[@j0nnyism]

It’s very easy to laugh at the nazis and just seeing them as a fringe lunatic group but it’s important to remember that at one time they were not

[@MrSandalwood]

Can't wait this is going to be good!!@

[@tomoconnell2727]

OMG, if i could go back in time & be a fly on the wall, i would choose to witness Jon Ronson talking to Genesis P-Orridge...

[@valerienagy8764]

This conversation is riveting. I imagine that it would be great fun to have a small dinner party with Andrew, Jon, and a couple of the SPTV crew - I'll make the food and enjoy the conversation. That's an open invitation. Let me know when you'll all be in Philadelphia so I can get started!

[@alison155]

So so very interesting guy.. looking out for the book...

[@EDDIELANE]

Oh wow he’s so brave!

[@carolinegodden4364]

Listening 11:15 am Tuesday 6th June 2023 🐦

[@elizaline7571]

Bought the psychopath test after watching this. Great podcast and great book. 241!

[@artisanshrew]

*PS. Gen X NEVER forgot that bombing! We just wondered why our Government did!!!*

[@donnamorgan2522]

I saw an ep where Louis was asked by a White Supremacy group’s leader if he was Jewish…he handles tricky situations in a way you have to admire.

[@j0nnyism]

The cross burning is an appropriation of Scottish clan culture. The clans burned the cross when they called the clans to war presumably against the English

[@jillruben8924]

Damn I missed the beginning. It sounds so interesting.

[@randomrachel1232]

Oooh Ronson again … last time I watched him was when he had the cult I grew up in on his show years ago. Wasn’t on it myself but knew those who were

[@olegloginov2953]

"Weak with women "is the most likely explanation for that idiots behavior.

[@I_am_Lace]

@On the Edge with Andrew Gold - if you have to go stay with Jon, remember, stay out of the attic!! Lol 💌 Peace & Love from Oklahoma 💌 Oh & I am adopted but am happy y to say being adopted didn't turn me into a Nazi. Hahaha!! I have loved this podcast.

[@websurfer5772]

Yeah I'm adopted too, and I'm too sweet for my own good. I finally learned I needed to have boundaries in my 40s. Yes, we can have psychological issues but many of us may be the other way -- too nice.

[@michellemooresings]

My husband investigated BOTH of those cases. I don't remember anything about Carol, though, I'm assuming he does. From what he's shared with me (he's worked several Domestic Terrorism cases) the people who get involved are sometimes lonely people who have found a group who will accept them. Kinda misfits, if you will. Not all of them, of course, but I found it interesting. Neil Buford, who shot up a Jewish Community Center was exactly that kind. So sad. Carol seems potentially one of those kind. Some young men up what supremacists are simply out of curiosity. Borderline Personality is extremely serious and extra difficult to deal with it well. Her impulsiveness makes me think she could be. Ive known 2 and neither seemed necessarily emotional at all times. I look forward to watching his documentary. Oh. I know who John Doe guy was.

[@lannipie]

It has been suggested that Isreal Keyes knew McVeigh and that’s why his files have been upgraded to classified as domestic terrorism. There’s a thread that could be pulled at.

[@allisonstacey]

Goodness I barely remember but I had no idea how much was involved with the story

[@jCREATESj]

You failed to mention that included victims were the children who were being cared for at a day care center in the building. I remember the day well. I was visiting the Smithsonian Art Museum with my mother. Sirens went off the entries automatically shut and locked, I think. The guard told us there had just, like seconds ago, been a bombing in Oklahoma City. (Details at 5)

[@user-kz4ke8mg4r]

Andrew, I think you should start a cult! What you don't know about cults by now, you could write on the back of a stamp!

[@ArtByHazel]

Earth is a fascinating place to be in. Great conversation yet again. Stay safe everyone. ❤❤❤🌎🧿

[@jillruben8924]

What I did hear about Tim M was very interesting. Definitely want to listen to the podcast. Thanks Andrew ❤❤

[@sarahfellows3074]

Love Jon Robson, although he made me paranoid about psychopaths for years of my life 😂

[@raw6460]

I thought he said throbbing Gristle what a fab drag name 😅

[@virginiaviola5097]

I often think about how the Christian church was built on the foundation stone of St Peter.. the man who denied knowing Jesus 3 times in order to save his own skin.

[@efolinsky]

In Europe borderline is often known as emotionally unstable personality disorder

[@thawkereynolds]

I don’t know why you think that Oklahoma City is forgotten the name Timothy McVeigh still is known by most people 35 and older. If anything, the bombing of the twin towers before 9/11 is forgotten to me, I believe in 1993.