The Deepest Game from the Shin Megami Tensei Franchise

[@Alfareon]

there's a youtuber named Marsh who started with the first game published back in the 80s. he's almost at the year 2000. poor guy has suffered for our enlightenment

[@dutchielander2478]

Marsh getting traction as a SMT youtuber makes me feel all warm and fuzzy. He's a great story teller, too.

[@Sh1ranu1]

That man has played last Bible so we won’t have to, truly suffering for us

[@grimnir7749]

Sub to Marsh!

[@avneelram3511]

Don’t forget that Marsh had also played the best SMT game ever: Jack Bros.

[@ArshadZahid_nohandleideas]

This guy’s shitposts are of impeccable quality

[@abel8831]

DDS being so overlooked is tragic. Genuinely amazing game.

[@DragonKingX78]

I agree, very underrated game.

[@abbthedreamer8378]

Especially the ost, this game has one of the most badass soundtracks

[@brub1738]

I will say DDS1 story is really good but in the context of it being a prequel to DDS2. if it was stand alone though it would be just alright.

[@nr2676]

If you release game in same month with Resident Evil 4, Shadow of Colossus and God Of War, no wonder this game was overshadowed.

[@sickrandy2946]

@@brub1738 that's why it's not stand alone lol

[@ninja011]

Small detail that is often overlooked, the term for stone in referring to the petrified people in DDS2, in Japanese, is the same term as Salt stone, AKA Rock Salt. It's a small Sodom and Gomora reference.

[@Uberwenis]

Damn, your wife has good taste bro Also, I love that you're doing more in SMT stuff. One of my all-time favorite game series Edit: I'd recommend either Nocturne or Strange Journey next. For me, Nocturne was what opened my eyes to the whole series (like a lot of people in the US, I imagine), and even though it hasn't aged perfectly, it's still good

[@DragonKingX78]

Yeah, really do enjoy this game series.

[@JellyJman]

She do lol, great games

[@gotinogaden]

I pretty much love everything about this game - the cell shading presentation, the amazing OST, the characters and their struggles, the slick customization system, etc.

[@DragonKingX78]

Yeah really wish we got more games in this series. I love the combat/skill system.

[@baddragonite]

Honestly SMT is the type of series where jumping in based on your gut usually can't hurt They're all fairly unique from each other

[@DragonKingX78]

They are unique, would be nice if all the games were on current consoles/systems.

[@ironman-fg3jh]

@@DragonKingX78 most of them can be emulated without any issues on an android phone. thats what ive been doing. best part is its all free

[@wodensthrone5215]

If the may rumor is true, they're bringing more Shin Megami Tensei games to the current systems and SMTV will be on Xbox and Ps5, I actually had to put down SMTV because of how horrendous it looks and runs on Switch.

[@DragonKingX78]

@@wodensthrone5215 SMT5 better be on PS4 as well.

[@wodensthrone5215]

@DragonKingX78 Nah, we really need to start leaving old technology behind, it's hindering the full potential of newer tech.

[@backupschmliff1156]

The writer for Digital Devil Saga is Satomi Tadashi, and he's also the person who did the writing for Persona 1 and 2, as well as The Caligula Effect.

[@meowy2k]

man i really LOVE the PS2 SMT games, these days it feels like Atlus wants to forget about these titles in pursuit of making Persona the most profitable game. its all about the money.

[@DragonKingX78]

Atlus wants to forget about everything that is not Persona 3+. Older games be damned.

[@dexusittogs525]

SMT is full of interesting stuff and I'm glad to see such a cool game from the series being covered here. Game really deserves more love.

[@DragonKingX78]

I agree, this games series really deserves more love.

[@gruglas]

"deeper than persona" 💀

[@ashleylee364]

he’s not wrong

[@KyngD469]

I would love to hear your analysis on Strange Journey and Strange Journey Redux. A lot of good things to dig into in that entry in the franchise. Humans. Nature. and the primordial mother.

[@Velociferon]

I second that. Especially with the hidden boss in Sector Grus

[@gldni17]

Props to your wife for recommending DDS, personal favorite of mine and something I recommend to just about everyone. It's one of the two games that really sparked my interest in Hinduism and Buddhism and helped me to form my own personal understanding and philosophy of how to live my life. The other game that got me to look into Hinduism/Buddhism was The Journeyman Project 3, btw. Substantially less depth, but an interesting look at the basic ideas of Buddism and the Samsara that might get you interested in learning more.

[@DragonKingX78]

Yes, love the DDS games.

[@joshdavis8381]

Nocturne is good not only as a game still, but I think about its story fairly often. It has me thinking about what kind of world I would like to see. The minimalist style of storytelling really works for this game too.

[@DragonKingX78]

Yeah, works for that game.

[@f.d.e.4106]

Bruh, the dream came true. The DDS is one hell of a lore/myth pit. The video is rad, thank you very much!

[@troyeteryx4921]

Loved that you read the concept of atma-brahman, please read Adi shankaraachaary's Vedanta which though not emotionally philosophical but has a lot of philosophies which inspired great scientists like Niel Bohr and Einstein.

[@SharinganSora95]

Yes. One of my favorite SMT games. Enjoyable gameplay, just the right amount of challenge, and my favorite art direction in the franchise.

[@DragonKingX78]

It's still my favorite.

[@DarkSeraph]

Kazuma Kaneko is an amazing artist he did the character designs for Persona 2 and his demon designs are cool.

[@ReaverSTHLM]

The trope of fighting God to prove one's worth has been done to the point of parody in games - it's so obviously there to justify a climactic final battle. But I always felt like it worked well in DDS because of the context of the story. Given that the inciting incident was Sera's sadness and disillusionment being communicated to God, it makes sense that a display of effort, determination, self-sacrifice and hope would move the needle in the other direction. That's my reading at least.

[@michs7451]

Bravo! Thanks for covering two of my favorite games of all time, and drawing out their philosophical and religious significance. I'd suggest either Nocturne (Nietzsche, Gnosticism, Book of Revelation), Strange Journey, or Devil Survivor 1. I found these to be the most interesting on a philosophical level.

[@andresarancio6696]

Cannot empathize more on the challenge of which SMT game to start with. They are all godly. I personally suggest playing SMT2. It may be old and pretty infuriating at times, but I think it is the best at introducing the recurring concepts of the series. But really, all of them are fantastic and ocean deep in lore, references to culture, religion and mythology, etc. Only thing I would be wary about is playing 4 or 5 too early, as I think the conflict in those is better appreciated after playing more of the older ones

[@kevinmajoros6547]

So glad you covered the this. DDS is my favorite in the SMT and criminally underrated.

[@DragonKingX78]

Very underrated.

[@TrevRockOne]

Very nice video. It's been about 13 years since I've played DDS. Thanks for the refresher and elucidation.

[@DragonKingX78]

It would be nice if Atlus would let us play these games on currents consoles/systems.

[@antoniotrejo272]

I would love to see you analize SMT 4 and 4 Apocalypse, and Soul Hackers. I love your videos but also if you can make longer breakdowns or story explained in full of these games, that would be fantastic

[@_kishken_1595]

YYEEEEEESSSSSSSSS I’ve not only waited for more DDS content, but SMT content from you. This is awesome dude, keep it up

[@joshuahelmeke]

DDS 1 & 2 is such a great game. It’s a personal favorite of mine.

[@DragonKingX78]

Still my favorite of the SMT(and related) games.

[@snailthelostcow63]

I think one that stood out the most is how hopeful the ending is. Let's be real, it's an SMT game, played like an SMT game, and as bleak as an SMT game, yet it has such a bright ending and that makes it even more satisfying

[@DragonKingX78]

Far more positive then most endings for a Megaten game.

[@dutchielander2478]

Would love to have a remaster of both titles in one. Such a great story.

[@mateusgreenwood1096]

Your wife has great taste.

[@TheJackster-tl8oi]

The fact your lovely lady is a huge gamer is an absolute win! 🥇 keep up the content my man

[@drone124]

I never beat either games after getting stuck on bosses. I was too proud to look up guides. but I love SMT. so thank you for this video I never would've realized the profundity of this story otherwise. it's truly remarkable and deeply impressive so my appreciation for this wonderful series has only deepened

[@Eizenicus]

This game fucked me up. I played it for the first time like 7 years ago expecting another cool romp around the post apocalyse slaying demons, instead i was hit with serious moral conundrums and existentialism i havent experienced since Nier (and then nier automata smacked me even harder with that about a year later) Here we are today and i still haven't stopped thinking about it. Great video, dude, nothing i love more than seeing DDS getting the recognition it deserves.

[@giovanniprovost]

LETS GOOOO. DDS is so HUGE for philosophy too, great choice. STRANGE JOURNEY next

[@DragonKingX78]

Love DDS and yes Strange Journey(or Nocturne) would be a good second choice.

[@damiancrowley569]

I really like the SMT franchise, my first one was Devil Summoner

[@DragonKingX78]

My fist was Persona 1 and Nocturne was my first mainline game.

[@Locaneo]

Thank you so much for playing my second favorite game of all time, after FF9. The growth from data on a computer to being one with god is such a transcendent and powerful evolution that it gave me an understanding and greater care for existence. Everything is important from the smallest insect to the greatest god, we are all one. The next game I suggest is SMT 3 or Strange Journey; Redux. I recommend watching 1 and 2 first.

[@josephforjoseph]

There is a song from this game that Ive had in my personal playlist ive had since i was 16. I saw this lastest video of yours and thought "is that, that game?" In all my delving into philosophy and the Journey of the Self, would I have thought discovering the penultimate meaning of Hinduism would validate so many spiritual arguments Ive been wrestling myself with for so long. Thank you. For making this video.

[@Larrue]

Fun video! Thanks for giving megaten more spotlight!

[@NorthenTasawwuf]

Kundalini isn't stored in muladhara (that's why all the sex stuff doesn’t work and actually is corruptive in various excesses), it's just above in the sacrum bone and has it's own chakra, though muladhara is the gatekeeper/guardian of sorts.

[@Kageryushin]

I would recommend you look into Quantum Devil Saga, a light novel series which is the true "complete" version of DDS' plot, granted that most of the books are presently untranslated. DDS was originally intended to be mostly written by Yu Godai, but she was forced to leave production before the plot was fully complete due to illness, and so longstanding MegaTen staff members like Kazuma Kaneko stepped in and filled in the rest. What we got in DDS is the complete story of the Junkyard, but ultimately only the broad stokes of Yu Godai's original intent for the real world, with much of the narrative connective tissue missing. There's a lot of details in DDS which are just sort of _there_ and unexplained or otherwise don't make complete sense, such as Angel being intersex and Sera's mother (as you touch on in the video) which are much more fleshed out in the QDS novels. There's also even more philosophical navel-gazing. It's a good series, with my one grievance being that Godai is a fuckin' fujoshi and it shows. Although frankly speaking Nocturne will probably be more up your alley when you get down to brass tacks, due to its plot being centered on the pursuit of rather extreme ideological strains, I second the numerous voices encouraging you to play SMT Strange Journey next. But remember, play the original game first, not Redux. Redux is an entirely different experience. Granted, the original Strange Journey might just kick your ass, but it's worth it. We shall see. Devil Survivor, Nocturne, SMTIV... all good choices following that. But let's stick to Strange Journey for now.

[@ike804]

Really hope they finish translating QDS. Only reason I havent read then yet is because I ccant read them all in one go

[@YES-et4qm]

Thank you for this great video!! I can’t wait for the next one! It would be cool to see your take on Persona 3, it’s def the darkest of the 3 most recent games in the series, focusing around the theme of mortality.

[@theshellderinslowbrostail5422]

Finally a Digital Devil Saga video

[@DragonKingX78]

It has been a while.

[@Antimakker]

Good to see my favourite SMT game getting the love it deserves!

[@DragonKingX78]

I agree.

[@davidjtorresii7921]

Nice to hear that Chained Echo ost in the background during this great vid :)

[@GrimMetropolis]

0:37 Catherine is atlus, but is it considered to be in the SMT universe? I didn't think it was, but I would be stoked if it is. Catherine Full Body is one of my favorite games.

[@anku6793]

13:25 is the yellow dragon smoking a blunt?!

[@matthewcurran9632]

Completely off topic, but I just want to give props to Shoji Meguro, the composer to these games, excluding SMT V, for making a sick soundtrack for these games! Dds, in particular, the many battle themes are really fun to play on guitar 👍👍

[@lysanderxx1664]

Catherine is a rettibly amusing game, so I'd love your analysis there. For more extensive existentialism, theology, and morality, I highly recommend Devil Survivor and Devil Survivor 2 (the Overclocked versions, specifically).

[@reicherwallace6774]

That was fun. There are a lot of good games to try out in the series. Shin megami tensei 1 and 2 are good choices if you wanna learn the roots (kinda but not the actual start just the solidifying moment)

[@kogorun]

It would be cool to see SMT 4 and Apocalypse looked at. I think they should be packaged in one video, because Apocalypse feels more or less like an answer to SMT 4. But, as others have said, it's best if you look at SMT 1 or 2 first.

[@Old_Harry7]

The Bramhan concept is fascinating, it deeply reminds me of Dante's take on the Abrahamitic God. We are children of God, we possess part of it in ourselves and our ultimate goal is to reunite with him loosing our individualism in the process and becoming "whole" once again.

[@HumanMediaPhile]

If nothing else, this tells me I need to look into more SMT games besides Persona 3, Persona 4 , & Persona 5.

[@DragonKingX78]

I would love to play more mainline SMT other 3...if they would just port these games.

[@fakename4683]

I deeply enjoyed this game. The only one I think I liked better was SMT IV. The games endings forced you to think about what you were doing and reinforced each other in interesting ways. Glad you enjoyed DDS.

[@Davlavi]

Love your stuff.

[@krisnantoprayogosantoso4033]

You and your wife both are avid gamer?! What a very happy life you both having right now, bro! I'm happy for you two 👍

[@FatalJapan]

Nocturne was my entry into everything SMT. DDS is my favorite next to Persona 3, 4 , and 5. You can't forget devil summor 1 and 2.

[@alucardv5312]

SMT 3: Nocturne my dude. I wanna hear your breakdown on each of the games reasons.

[@THIRDEYEDROPS]

Great stuff, man. Thinking about doing an a Persona/SMT vid myself 🙏

[@shuraamano]

I think, if you ever going in, you can delve first into 3DS version of SMT spin offs and SMT IV and Apocalypse. After that start going with the remakes version of Soul Hackers. DDS and Nocturne can be played after playing the 3DS. Finishing the PS2 SMT, now you can try old ones. It's basically soften the experience going from new too older titles. Because before Nocturne the "press turn" flavor isn't there.

[@raybob8668]

“Deeper than persona” Yessir

[@abryant9166]

Noting the amount of time spent on videos of Persona 5 with Takemi. Your romance path has been revealed, good sir.

[@DragonKingX78]

I love the DDS games, really deserves HD remasters ported to all consoles/systems.

[@baronagony4767]

I would recommend Strange Journey or the Persona 2 duology. I think you might like persona 2 as the story is heavily themed around the dangers of misinformation and doomsday prophecy

[@garvielloken8494]

Thank you so much for covering SMT game! I would also recommend to check out Nocturne, Strange Journey, Persona 1 and 2 (both 2), also SMT 1-2 have great story, despite really outdated gameplay, but it's worth it

[@Izzak_Beck]

I'd love to see a deep dive into SMT Strange Journey, it has a ton of really interesting symbolism. The Devil Survivor games are absolutely worth your time as well.

[@DragonKingX78]

I would like for SMT SJ to be remastered for PS4, PS5, Switch, etc.

[@vxpdx]

at a very superficial level, I found some aspects to coincide with the story of The Talos Principle, down to the tower and its purpose even

[@ThePantafernando]

The conflict between tribes reminded me about agnes vs kevesi in Xenoblade 3, and this parallel doesnt seems random, but that both games were based from the same concept. It gives another sense to that game, and i appreetiate the insight

[@tchelikdabril9628]

Ngl, SMT1-2 & Nocturne are the 3 games that honestly represent the "definitive" MegaTen experience and best way to get into the Megami Tensei (MegaTen for short) franchise since you get to experience both old & new and some of the pinnacle of the franchise. Plus SMT 1-2 are the easiest mainline SMT games cus of how exploitable they are (*cough* Nerve Bullets & Zio/Bufu *cough*). But outside of those three, I also recommend (what you can go for next after those three) Strange Journey, Soul Hackers and Persona 1-2 cus those are the best Persona games in terms of Story, Characters, Themes, Philosophy and most important of all Music (except the PSP).

[@igodreamer7096]

"Max, you surely should cover that underground, underrated, very niche Gameboy SMT game. I'm very serious about it."

[@megabyte01]

If I had to recommend a starting point, the later games are probably better than the older ones for two reasons. First, the newer games are generally more polished and enjoyable games, with less severe 'Old RPG syndrome' Second, the newer games are more likely to have clearer writing and themes. The older games are more likely to carry a lot more moving parts and references than the audience can handle easily.

[@Shironen2011]

Glad you had the opportunity to enjoy one of my favorite underappreciated Atlus titles.

[@reltcstone2]

id love to hear your thoughts on nocturne. great video.

[@alsaiduq4363]

IMO the best mainline game that puts everything what SMT is about , it's Strange Journey. Solid Character, Good Story , Alignments Matter, Choices matter and you have some notable differences between Route and Great Dungeons. I think Redux is fine to play , but if you want the original vision DS version is the way. Devil Survivor Overclocked is my favorite tho. Think the story is great. But i would recommend you to play Shin Megami Tensei V as one of your first SMT games .... Playing after other games makes SMTV looks terrible in comparasion.

[@naokibeats420]

I d preserve that title for Nocturne tbh, deepest game ever meaningwise imo

[@sanctun-3782]

As some ppl comented, this art direction whips. It has that Deus ex HR or V. Profile 2 approach where the game presentation IS so tight with the story that creates that kathartic feeling on some people. This is particulary Nice when the issue IS religion: It is suppose to mean cohesion and Sense of belonging. This is why in my opinion the ART direction here blows It out of the Water. e.y.e Divine cybermancy does something similar... But i feel in their case its unintentional.

[@eowade9211]

A mysterious egg-like thing that gives consciousness when cracked open... reminds me of Xenoblade 3 hu

[@GregDevStuff]

SMT Persona 2 would be marvelous. It is highly underapreciated game and overshadowed by 3-5

[@juancgonzalez6537]

As Jack Frost would say: Hee-Ho

[@nicholasmorgan7609]

Your wife recommended Lost Odyssey? She's definitely a keeper my dude.

[@TrvisXXIII]

First time in any review / retrospective video I’ve ever been captivated by the non-spoiler section’s story. I usually skip to hear about the combat lol also, the art style for this game is so unique, that “dead behind the eyes” look should be a main staple in SMT, and I could tell it was in Nocturne before they remastered it and changed everything

[@DarkSeraph]

You can thank Kazuma Kaneko for the awesome character design.

[@uidsea]

I gave DDS a good try. I'm not the biggest fan of the shifting into the demons but I really need to give this another go.

[@kaiyodei]

I had quit this one. i got down to the elevator. and gave up. I also had big bouts of death anxiety while playing. I think it started before playing but it started during it. I don't know when i started playing. it was released in 2004. I guess that is when it was hapening. I don't know if I can bring myself to play 2, or finish 1. I wanted something hard and I got a hard game. knowing now, watching your video. I'm not in the mindset for this game

[@vwts]

Given how much I like the other games in the list your wife recommended, I’ll just go play this Digital Devil Saga game and come back lol it has to be good

[@lucalama4607]

Nice video ! I'm personally interested to see what you'll think of the Persona 2 duology ( Innocent sin and Eternal Punishment ) it was made by the same team that was behind the shin megami tensei up until 3 and is also heavy on symbolism.

[@johnnyhammerstyx]

I'd say most everything made after 2000 is deeper than Persona, but Persona is also it's own thing with very different goals in mind for player engagement Still tho, great to see older SMT not be utterly forgotten nowadays, good video

[@GrassesOn97]

I wonder what Nietzsche would have thought of Hinduism as a religion and philosophy on life. If moksha is about embracing life, and Nietzsche’s philosophy is about being a “yes-sayer” (one who embraces the struggle of life), would Nietzsche have had a positive perspective of Hinduism?

[@crozraven]

Indeed, regardless of background, this life is a self-test what may or may not come after it, in which regardless of outcome, the objective still is to find your worth & the truth. Not your perception of truth, but the truth itself as the universe are not conscious & cannot lie.

[@dylanclark9903]

Ugh- we get it- ur in love lol But at least she has great taste in video games and has prompted u to make some great content

[@Fenrisson]

Would you consider doing a video on SaGa Frontier 2?

[@Chr1s_1986]

Funny Story: I never played DDS1 instead i only played DDS2 and i fucking love that game i even love it more then Nocturn and that game is allready top tier gaming for me.

[@sprytefox]

Definitely loved this game's world but never stuck with it because of the gameplay. Glad to see Max did it for me! I say you should cover Catherine or Nocturne next.

[@rfmerrill]

Saying Jenna is intersex is a bit iffy, because real life intersex people almost never produce both viable sperm *and* eggs, as Jenna is said to have. This is part of why the term "intersex" is preferred to "hermaphrodite"--the latter refers to having complete and functional sets of both types of genitals, which is exceedingly rare in humans although normal in some other species.

[@dongodongo12]

This might be my favorite video of yours, also you should play nocturne next

[@canaldecasta]

The only reasonable choices is SMT If of course

[@LongTran-kp3kz]

Soul Hackers is a damn good game. Not the crap sequel though. The original. Oh, and Digital Devil Saga is honestly really good. I liked it a lot. But yeah, you'd need to get both games to fully enjoy or yeah, you're screwing yourself over. Oh, did you know there's a novel adaptation for DDS? Nice vid though. I think you're also the first person I've seen who talked about this from the Hindu perspective of the mythology. Cool analysis.

[@mikisouza426]

I really loved the Catherine Full Body! Though its religious may not "the" deeepest game ever

[@RetroSage]

Every smt game is amazing and its my all time fav game series and I personally highly suggest you get into it

[@iantaran2843]

God I got lucky and bought these on the PlayStation store on my old PS3 Still works and everything

[@seanchan4478]

Woah woah woah woah, they had no sense of consciousness until we gain control of them. That's awesome! I knew this was a game I should have played

[@WoobertAIO]

Shin Megami Tensei is all well and good, though I can't help but wonder... When is the Goddess Truly going to Reincarnate?

[@kratoscar2008]

Persona 2 duology. Persona 2 has a lot of cool stuff to explore

[@justinquilapio8006]

Please play SMT 4, or try out SMT 3 Nocturne. Imo they have good internal depth to ask the question of what is paradise/ freedom?

[@Dahras1]

Strange Journey is good, but I really think you should play Nocturne. Not only is it a fantastic game, it also is widely considered "base-SMT". Playing Nocturne gives you a lot better perspective on the pros and cons of the entries that follow, including DDS, imo.