The Devs are Finally Addressing 6v6....

[@LT_Gam1ng]

the only reason they havent been adressing 5v5 is because they want to make deleting overwatch 1 make sense. and thats stupid. overwatch 1 should never have left.

[@neon6871]

Im starting to think it maybe is related to legal issues and that the game must be 5v5

[@Noignorance21]

They honestly should be sued I never paid for overwatch 2 I want what I paid for. Also I paid for overwatch like 3 times on multiple platforms. How is that at all legal.

[@Kafka-Youtube]

the initial idea of the OW "2" made sense until they shit on it and underdelivered in all fronts

[@lucid3067]

They killed any chance of OW2 being a separate identity from OW1 when they canceled PVE. The only difference I see is that the game is more heavily monetized, and the new gamemode push is trash. I was so hype to finally have a story mode with an rpg like skill tree and they crushed my hopes and dreams and replaced them seasonal events that my PC cant even properly play without lagging me out of the game entirely.

[@pippo17173]

​@zodiarkful it was suppose be pve but they screw that up. 6v6 could of stayed, becomes free to play and have another team to make the sequel that is story focus.

[@quincypayne6330]

This is what happens when you just stare at the numbers and dont actually play the game

[@D2Mephisto]

yep. blizz is obsessed with data, and it leads them down a bad path time after time

[@isaacjohnson8796]

To your point they literally created a stat called "tankiness" to quantify the problem. You cant make this shit up 😂

[@shooterDisease]

@@isaacjohnson8796 Making the tank role a passive Blizzard’s brain is like universe-sized

[@whateverusername]

they shouldn't even be using data at all. "Oh look, our game is now mathematically balanced to perfection! Wait, where did all our players go?"

[@thekleanupkrew8381]

Tell me the devs don't play their game without telling me directly. "Tankiness"

[@b1nglebongled1ngledangle]

They've put more effort into trying to make this work than it would take to convert to 6v6 at this point.

[@arbalest327]

which is utterly hilarious, it is the same as the you dont want wow classic thing LMAO

[@Real_MisterSir]

Bruh a semi competent dev team who actually plays the game instead of looking only at stat spreadsheets could probably fix this game in 6v6 within half a year at most. And I mean truly fix, not just balance tanks, but also rework some of the major hack abilities like suzu, swift step, lamp, grip, etc. Devs just dont know their own game. They look on papers with numbers, while the players actually sink 1000s of hours each into the real gameplay experience. Theory vs practice.

[@Chronochrome]

This is why their whole PvE division got shut down. They likely kept committing to an idea, not thinking it all the way through before hitting an obstacle, and then abandoning it for a potentially better idea. The leadership at Blizzard is the problem here. They NEED to manage their resources more effectively: settle on a collective vision, come up with a very long term strategy, analyze EVERY possible flaw and how to resolve it (without also accidentally ricocheting into another bad idea), and then FULLY COMMIT to the strategy with properly aligned talent and direction. I can't even imagine what daily life at Blizzard is like. Other than just hitting deadlines, I don't think they have any actual benchmarks of how they feel they SHOULD be performing.

[@bambampewpew32]

@@arbalest327 oh hey it's you again AND IKR LMFAO WILL THEY EVER LEARN

[@aouyiu]

That's because the game's biggest issue has nothing to do with format. 5v5 is in a much better state than it was in two years ago, it will continue to slowly improve. You people also underestimate just how much pre-2022 work would need to be undone to even attempt to bring 6v6 to the live game and return the polished OW1 experienced. They made their decision 5-6 years ago, they're stuck with it, we're stuck with it. Eventually you guys will settle down and stop shouting about 6v6.

[@HasturBeta]

Too little too late, they've had 11 seasons to "jump in" to this conversation an instead have done nothing but tell people interviewing them to not bring up 6v6 and celebrated "creators" who've done nothing but launch personal an toxic attacks on people who want 6v6. This is just another moment of "break glass in case of financial emergency".

[@hillwoop9101]

I’m still mad at Custa man, can’t take that dude seriously anymore

[@Ziluette]

​@@hillwoop9101What happend with Custa?

[@pepekovallin]

Eskay literally compared 6v6 people to antivaxers. I mean, she did correct herself and said that wasn't a good analogy, but like, wtf why are you even thinking something like that? We are talking about a format in a videogame, how the fuck would you even bring up something like that

[@brycenb2994]

Problem with this take is they could’ve easily had people keeep silent about 6v6 because they were still working out internally whether it was the play or not. And taking about it could’ve given false hope or unneeded despair when an actually decision hadn’t been made yet. I mean you say “too little too late” yet here you are watching an update video on over watch. Sounds like someone who would very much want them to address 6v6 is a possibility

[@kyubbikcat2281]

_cough_ Freedo saying 6v6 advocates are akin to flat earthers _cough cough_ Like seriously wtf is that argument?

[@Theclooch]

This is it. This is the final make or brake moment for overwatch. Ive been playing this game since october 2016. I have completley quit playing the game for season 11 of overwatch 2. As god is my witness, if they say " we wont be going back to 6V6" on this dev update i am officially leaving the game forever. If they dont go back to 6v6 now, i dont see this game surviving beyond 2 years from now. I just cant do it anymore man. I survived goats, i survived triple tank, beyblade, dive and even the abandonment of 2020. But i cant keep playing it as it is right now. Legitimatly one of the most unfun games ive ever played in its current state.

[@Vsauce596]

Cya next week

[@runaway74]

>Survive beyblade A veteran

[@WorldKeepsSpinnin]

​@Vsauce596 this games not addicting bro, theres no next week for alot of people. Same way ow1 died will be the same way ow2 dies

[@stazzy5858]

@@Vsauce596 queue times are already back to being over 10 minutes lil bro, they keep this up more players are gonna quit lmao

[@vgcontroller101]

Same here. Quit this season and I'm officially quitting if they don't go back to 6v6.

[@JumpsOw]

YIEEEPIE just took them 2 years to announce that they will address it in a future blog post...

[@monki9941]

“6v6 just won’t work so we won’t be considering bringing it back”

[@JumpsOw]

@@monki9941 I mean knowing the devs they'll try to please as much people as possible doing the worst they can ending up in the game losing players so... Either way the debate will end and people will be able to move on.

[@PlainDoll]

They're gonna say you think you do but you dont, take off rose tinted glasses, stop spreading hate ect. In which case I can finally be free and give up on tank role forever cause there's nothing to hope for anymore

[@JumpsOw]

@@PlainDoll imagine they actually pull a wow classic, the community would turn on them so badly.

[@Cerms]

LMAO the timing. 10:12 ''Ask yourself, at what point do we draw the line and say I NEED HEALING''

[@chiefsokka7789]

It’s the best thing that happened lmfaoo

[@mattiej2311]

All this because they wanted to profit off the Free to play format, but had to market it as a new game. Well played, blizzard.

[@darkpaw3734]

They couldve just made overwatch 1 F2P, and impletmented Microtransactions and updates from there.

[@mattiej2311]

@@darkpaw3734 but that would have made them look scummy

[@lifted71blazer]

​@@mattiej2311 It would of looked a lot less scummy than the absolute rugpull they did with overwatch 2. There have been been an influx of games that go f2p after a while especially when the game is becoming less popular but I guess if they never abandoned OW1 the way they did then maybe it wouldn't have died enough to justify it

[@mattiej2311]

@@lifted71blazer yeah them abandoning the game for 2 and a half years was dumb

[@nobodynobodoy2695]

@@darkpaw3734 I think you forgot the overhaul performance boosts that improved for overwatch 2. Getting a 2nd version was inevitable whether 5v5 or 6v6 was in mind. And ofc, they are a business, obviously they are gonna try to profit within their interests. Clearly the battlepass model is working or else the game wouldn't continue going on as it is. The moment they listen is if the game isn't showing the numbers anymore. At least its a bit better than valorant and actually give good looking skins with the battlepass instead of crummy ones.

[@kellywilson137]

Devs are stupid, game is stupid. Hear me out 6 vs 5, defender side gets a Gigabuffed Mauga and the attacking side gets two shit tanks. They will never go back to 6v6 because they'd rather drink breastmilk than admit defeat.

[@Florian-ps1qv]

I mean its blizzard. Theyd probably want to drink it

[@Spika94]

And when we move to 6v5, and it has been like that for a while (and of course it turned out to be shit), they will start bitching about how 5v5 was nostalgia and rose tinted glasses.

[@I_m_him]

Oh boy, do I have a story to tell you.

[@leonzspotg]

@@I_m_himdont even start 😂 don’t you dare 😂

[@RIP_ZYZZ1738]

Was that breast milk thing purposeful? 😂

[@mistersir4180]

I stopped playing tank the past 2 seasons until they go back to 6 v 6. Tank is unplayable in my opinion

[@BTRshow]

I like playing tank but I'm a lucio main in a mercy world, so it's all I can play and not make me miserable. That being said, I shamelessly counter pick on tank THE INSTANT I CAN. Only reason I'm having fun is because I'm going out my way to prevent fun and I understand that. The game is in a bad state and I'm just abusing the issue.

[@kempurin]

@@BTRshowur the reason i cant have fun on dva

[@BTRshow]

@@kempurin *laughs in rammatra*

[@leonzspotg]

⁠​⁠@@BTRshowi mean, if you don’t swap the enemy team will more than likely to counter swap to prevent you having fun, it’s fully understandable lmfao

[@Kafka-Youtube]

stopped playing tank in Seasson 4 best decision ever

[@ramzkun]

My casual group abandoned the awful Role Queue and we went Open Queue full time, and the game is properly fun again. The game feels so much more alive and dynamic, much like the OW1 we loved. The answer is right in front of the devs and they refuse to see it. Keep fighting the 6v6 fight!

[@shooterDisease]

This. Role queue was not necessary the only reason it was implemented was to kill GOATS and as a byproduct it created queue time problems. And omg DPS is the most popular role what a fucking surprise! As a flex player I honestly liked played tank but only on certain maps others I would like to play support or dps but now I have to choose my role before seeing the map?? Yeah fuck that

[@sixsam6766]

I actually agree with you I even ran into some goat comps still found ot hetter then role she it just need to be bounce right *looks at balance team* yeah no they will ruin it

[@toons4934]

As a tank main open q isssssss waaaaaayyyyy mo’ funner. But I also don’t give a fuck if a win or lose cuz it’s a joke game mode they no one plays. And plays are masters. But as a twin player the off tank just makes me life sooooooooooooooo much better. Rein zar ? Enough said. Widow ? Dva monkey dives her. Got a ram ? I shield while he punches there hole team. Jq ? Knifes, I swing , I fuck yo and pin because I’m at half mast playing with another tank, JQ shouts I stop eating my Cap’n Crunch cuz I ain’t dying no more now I’m swinging that thang. Falcon beauuuuu

[@candy1049]

OW Devs be like: - Increases Tank's max health, and then increase everyone's max health (Including tanks again). - Makes burst damage (and aim in general) less impactful overall. - Makes Tank passively take less damage from headshots (Which was sometimes the only way to kill a tank). - Repeatedly adds more ways to gain overhealth. - Give supports too much power and then refuse to nerf them (instead decide to change literally everything else about the game). - Adds Kiriko, who has the most problematic, infuriating, and overtuned kit ever; Being able to do everything with no weaknesses, risk, or drawbacks. Refuse to nerf her despite being meta for 11 seasons straight. - Barely makes any effort to fix the issues involving Bap and Brig, in fact, makes said issues worse. - Adds and buffs a bunch of burst healing / AoE healing (such as making Bap's regen burst heal more instantly when people are below half) - Refuse to address problematic support abilities that grant invulnerability or too much survivability - Hears the community ask for healing / support power to be reduced, only to side step with a "band-aid" DPS Passive, only to increase healing again. - Creates a bunch of tanks with (Or gives certain tanks) very high self-sustain, damage resistance/mitigation, overhealth, and/or shields. Also OW Devs: "Tanks aren't tank-y enough"

[@theuigauss]

I mean they aren't and they are you either live forever or die immediately you either get counterswapped or counter swap yourself

[@theuigauss]

@@mryellow6918 Imma be honest it doesn't even have to be the whole lobny I'm a tank player being playing a lot of DPS pharah sojourn and cass can fucking melt but yeah it's a 5v5 issue

[@MankoMeister]

Tanks aren't tanky because there is only one. It was always a format issue.

[@aouyiu]

No

[@randfall]

"Tanks aren't tanky." Tanks are plenty tanky. The problem is tanks also do the same DPS if not more than most of the DPS heros. Your tank isn't just tanking the DPS heros. It's tanking the other tank, who likely is doing more damage than the DPS, and it's tanking the healers, who might also be doing as much DPS as the DPS. When everyone can deal as much damage as the role designed to do damage, you have a problem when it's just 1 tank.

[@ohmeh4850]

More health on tank = more abilities usage on tank = tank still feeling miserable to play = tank still not being fun. I dunno mane pretty simple stuff if u ask me. Ur not gonna make tank fun and balanced in a 5v5 format it’s either the tank have fun and no one else or everyone else have fun besides the tank.

[@reesyloko5741]

Ive said this for so long its hard to focus other people when 1/3 of the teams power is standing right in front of you with very exploitable weaknesses defensive cooldowns and a giant hitbox in the average players games killing the tank is the most effective way to win if you take out a the dva in front of you before they kill your ram your at a massive advantage and in order to even the score they would have to kill one tank or two people on the same role and killing the slower big guy is way easier than chasing the smaller faster targets

[@skrypnykk.770]

6v6 is not better so better stay 5v5 As a hitskan heroes main - I would have hated 6v6 so hard

[@BeastMode-bw2ry]

@skrypnkk.770 Great argument buddy, you really convinced everyone.

[@skrypnykk.770]

@@BeastMode-bw2ry no one cares about your opinion either. 90% or more of 6v6 fans - are tank players. Obviously smallest part of community 5v5 has way more supporters that is why I am glad 6v6 will never be back

[@reesyloko5741]

@@skrypnykk.770 i care about his opinion

[@tacodip4575]

We need to ask Freelo what he thinks after he’s done polishing Blizzards knob

[@JustFishBait]

no one is polishing blizzards knob more than the guy crying and moaning about how the game sucks for 20 videos in a row but STILL PLAYS THE GAME ;)

[@heiko2255]

@@JustFishBait He gets the bag and deep down still has love for Overwatch, just not 5v5 I shit on the devs too and want 6v6 back more than anything else, but i do occaisonally play... just to realise how fucking bad this game has become, but i do play lol

[@JustFishBait]

@@heiko2255you coping if you think 6v6 will solve anything.

[@GaaraFPS]

@@JustFishBaitbro it’ll bring back a whole other generation of overwatch players. You know the people who paid for the game not once but multiple of time s

[@arbalest327]

@@JustFishBait you are coping if you think 5v5 will ever be better than 6v6 bud

[@metal100k]

How do they define how many deaths a tank ought to have? This just brings in another layer of interpretation to the balance that doesnt need to be there.

[@Real_MisterSir]

You must understand. The devs don't actually play the game, so to understand it, they need a number to represent a feeling. It's the only thing they can do with their limited skill lol

[@metal100k]

@@Real_MisterSir but you know the devs totally have testers in gm. Lmao

[@魚-c3d]

It's probably a comparison based on the number of deaths before the health pools changes. But it was so poorly explained with so few details that it's hard to believe that it's somewhat relevant

[@metal100k]

@user-cy6xl3vd3f it has to be relevant if they are using it to gauge how tanky the tanks are. It shouldn't rely solely on comparing one thing to another as that gets rid of the objectivity. They said they can't go into the specifics and I'm like damn is it that complicated of a stat to calculate?

[@eagleangel5568]

​@user-cy6xl3vd3f so I believe it's a statistic idk if that's the best word to use so it's like let say im a Gm mercy player top 500 etc high rank player so it proba factors my skill/mercy stats and I'd assumed give a ratio of death you should be experiencing so since I'm a gm mercy my deaths should be 10 5 or less then that

[@mrragecage9312]

The biggest thing for me, is I can't be in two places at once. Someone in my backline, do I peel and leave front defenseless, and let the tank steamroll? Or do I let my supports die and defend Frontline?

[@dromedarius4282]

Answer: uninstall

[@nobodynobodoy2695]

Answer: That can't be answered. Way too situational to be a yes or no question. Game isn't a flowchart.

[@parkerlit]

1:10 as a fledgling data analyst hearing this makes me immediately say that the devs view numbers but never view gameplay. A healer glued to a tank could mean many things, I would presume that these are low to mid tanks that feed but do not die and THEREFORE are endlessly needing heals dumped into them. 1:45 "Your experience and OUR data is aligned" the problem is they are trying to engineer a game to what they want to data, or what they expect the data, to be.

[@lukewenberg4271]

6 v 6 would bring balance back to the universe

[@shooterDisease]

And then Samito would finally rest and watch the sun rise on a grateful universe.

[@ext8423]

No it wouldn't, but it would make tank nicer to play

[@cl4709]

No it wouldn’t. It would be a start. Immo field, suzu, and life grip are all no-skill braindead bailouts that erase skillful plays. They need to be changed (I know they likely won’t be.) Not to mention the burst AOE healing of Brig, Moira, and Bap being overtuned for years now.

[@PaktNisely]

And the universe has been fvckin singing

[@mrzee435]

no it's gonna be the same thing with 2 tanks team 4 has no idea what they're doing with both formats yall are so horny for 6v6 this is why I'm on neither side it's embarrassing

[@Fetapower]

5vs5 in Overwatch is like 4vs4 in LoL, you cant be at the line and the jungle at the same time

[@hiimnifty3625]

I can't wait for them to just say why they won't go back to 6v6 in the post so I can finally fully be free and uninstall the game. I haven't played in months as is but I itch to play it so badly.

[@DarkOmen_91]

These people (devs) are absolutely fucking delusional. Psychotic is the understatement of the near DECADE that this game has been around. 6v6 is the ONLY FIX for this right now. Period. Bring Tank synergies back, and massively reduce health pools. Bring PLAYMAKING BACK, FOR ALL ROLES. Get rid of these complete cop-out "I can't die" buttons, and inject some actual S K I L L back in the game.

[@supershadow7672]

Inb4 the devs just shit on 6v6 in the dev update and make Sam lose his mind even more lol

[@Real_MisterSir]

and also make every 5v5'er istantly go "see! Its not coming back, stop talking about 6v6".. dear god, can't wait to see them get even more fuel for their obnoxious retaliatory comments and behavior.

[@lifted71blazer]

​@@Real_MisterSirIf they outright shit on 6v6 that will be about as dumb as the recent doc tweets. That is a fasttrack to a completely dead game since there is still a lot of people that will play just because of the little bit of hope that Overwatch can return to what it once was and if that gets completely taken away there will be a mass influx of people quitting the game forever. Now I personally don't think the OW devs are that stupid to do that but blizzard never fails to amaze lol

[@ryguy46853]

@@lifted71blazer You guys massively overestimate your voice and impact. Mass influx of people quitting over a tiny message in a dev blog? lol. Think about what you're saying. 90% of the player base just play the game they enjoy and don't ever pay attention to what the dev blog says, or what twitter thinks, or what streamers are saying.

[@whitegrill8809]

It’ll be company rhetoric like “while most people have this ideal that 6v6 will be able to save the game, it isn’t that simple. It’s most likely the nostalgia factor that’s influencing your thinking so to put it to rest, team 4 currently have no plans to revert the format back to 6v6 now or in the foreseeable future. Let’s make a great game. 🤓”

[@XFXGX]

@@ryguy46853yeah I’m sure the game has 90% positive ratings.....like on steam right?😂

[@Swagonite]

5v5ers: we don’t want to shoot at shields all day, but we’re happy to shoot at a tank that never dies so we can boost our damage stats and make it look like we’re doing something…. Even though the shields were never the root issue of 6v6 in the first place.

[@zonderwrld]

when Aaron addresses 6v6 and denies it, im going to quit. Fuck overwatch

[@RIP_ZYZZ1738]

This is how people should think. 5v5ers are coping about why they didn’t speak about 6v6 previously. They know that so many people would leave if they said anything

[@nickp8041]

Have barely played since they did the hitbox changes like 2 seasons ago. I'm just waiting for their statement on 6v6 to hit the install button. As soon as they say they aren't going to do it, which is what they are going to say "oh the game has had too many changes It's not technically feasible anymore boohoo" I'm gonna uninstall for good. Pre-ordered OW1 and this is just intolerable at this point. Let the 5v5er's enjoy their dying game.

[@aouyiu]

This was your breaking point? That's funny lol, there are better reasons to leave this game. I knew 5v5 was here to stay when they announce the change in the beginning. Thinking they'd change format after spending years of work reworking the entire game around 5v5, is not it.

[@nickp8041]

@@aouyiu You mean like how they spent 7 years working on 6v6 and then changed it to 5v5 without anybody asking for it

[@aouyiu]

@@nickp8041 womp womp, eventually people will stop complaining about 5v5 as the game slowly gets better and better over time. people like Samito might have moved on, leaving OW2 for the rest of us who enjoy playing it, and have since it was at its worst, since its launch

[@cheshirecat742]

I'm still amazed they haven't pulled a OW Classic play, and seen how well sales go to try to bait people's money out of them. Which of course would instantly kill OW2 for the most part, because everyone who wants 6v6 would go to that instead. But we all know Blizzard doesn't know how to even remotely look at what people want, because they're always right...

[@thisaintitchief8546]

After seeing that DBD developer get his ass whooped playing killer, so hard to the point where the next patch note hard nerfed survivors, Im convinced these developers do not play their own games. I would love to see these OW developers actually play the tank role and stream it live just to see how miserable tank actually is and so everyone can laugh.

[@OmniJohnny]

They did play tank. They played broken ass Orisa and said we enjoyed her, like no shit she was hard meta for 4 seasons 😂

[@bananashakeofmordor]

I think when they finally do the switch to 6v6 we should praise it, as it is the right choice. If they are able to drop the ego and admit they fucked up, I think that is commendable.

[@shooterDisease]

I couldn’t help but feel bitter at the bending over backwards for years trying to make 5v5 work. Like they would need to bring back the stocks.

[@WorldKeepsSpinnin]

At this point its too late, already quit this game seasons ago. All the Integrity of this game is gone. All the content creators except like flats all sold out and calling their whole communitys who know 6v6 is better "idiots, flat earthers, anti vaxxers". It's just disgusting. We are way past the point of no return, the game can die completely for all i care at this point.

[@salinaember9527]

after blizzard makes a statement clarifying that 6v6 will not be coming back, marvel rivals will have the marketing fuel of sega vs nintendo. "we have 6v6" is all they have to say.

[@hamtrik1745]

Everyone needs to stop playing this gane for them to realize that they have a alot to lose they know we wont stop playing thats why they milk it for as long as they can we as a community need to take a stand since they dont know whats at stake

[@madmaxim3965]

Most long term players have the problem is thou kids and the typical cycle of newer players. It's just a numbers game Hear me out because despite the very obvious misgrevings of the game at it's core there is still at the very least fun game in there especially for newer players because they don't have the context most of us have as we have seen this game in a much better state while they only have this current overwatch and like I said the game Inn that sense can provide enjoyment for fresh players even if they get cynical down the road and stoop playing , for blizzard they will have enough players coming in who are new combined with the younger players who don't care about this stuff and it's just a unwinnable battle In that respect there are billons of people and they don't even need a single whole percent of that to be viable, because the game isn't suicide squad there is still a good enough game in there that blizzard can at this point do whatever they want and enough naive youth and newcomers will always be there giving it support

[@WorldKeepsSpinnin]

I already quit long ago, its not hard guys. The games bad man. Like baddddd. Just do anything else, literally even league of legends is a better experience. Its sad what overwatch has become

[@nobodynobodoy2695]

@@madmaxim3965 I can confirm as a somewhat new player who only had 300 hours of ow1 going into ow2 after never touching the game for 6 yrs after 2017, I've found the game fun and don't understand what all the hubaloo is all about. I do see hackers dough and that's clearly not fun.

[@Real_MisterSir]

This dev post is unironically the same as having a patient diagnosed with cancer, but the doctor just overlooks it and prescribes them a fucking spa retreat instead of pills and chemo/surgery. Truly scary moment to see them openly admit they have no fucking clue what their own game even is about or how it plays.

[@Memedealer069]

Babe, it's time for you to get up. Samito has released a new 6v6 video. Overwatch is currently on life support as we speak. Let's go, Samito! In all realness, hes been one of the biggest of not biggest pioneer in steering this game back on course. Lets go bro

[@MuscleTheMan]

and gs raider his fan boy lol 😂

[@peacechief]

Two tanks per team is exactly what this game needs. 6v6 needs to return.

[@jackispunisher]

If a new viewer feels like Sam is too passionate about a game, you genuinely do not know who this man is.

[@BTRshow]

Nah bro, its good 😊 just release another mercy skin. The whales will compensate for how bad the devs are.....surely

[@Ricks-ransoms]

The tanks were made to work with each other, not alone. And they don't realize that. Trying to make a tank work alone just doesn't work and will never work right.

[@snektd]

marvel rivals lookin great

[@willmullins6209]

I had a dream that overwatch was 7v7, 2 tanks, 3 dps, 2 support. I feel like this is unironically a great solution to both the tanks don’t get played queue time issues, as well as the solo tanking sucks and we don’t have fun tank combos anymore. It was electric, rein X-rays with triple dps and Lucio Ana would be so insanely fun. I’m not saying it would be better than 6v6, but at this point anything would be better than 5v5 and maybe the devs wouldn’t be so upset if they went to 7v7 because they wouldn’t “lose” to the “6v6ers”

[@brandonray4493]

Making tanks more tanky will just result in the same "ignore the tank" strat we saw at launch... you can't kill the tank so you'll have to go dive and try to kill the enemy backline before they kill yours... dead by daylight for supports round 2

[@feelmypuddle4963]

That's okay, playing around protecting your supports and diving theirs is more fun than tank hide and seek till cooldowns refresh

[@WorldKeepsSpinnin]

​@feelmypuddle4963 its not though, hence the reason the game moved away from that. We already experienced that gameplay and it sucked. Especially in solo que environment. Season 1 and 2 of this game was the worse state of this game ive ever played. Especially being fresh off a way better 6v6 verison of it. Im surpised i didnt quit til season 8 looking back.

[@brandonray4493]

​@WorldKeepsSpinnin that's exactly right... you're just trading a bad tank experience for a bad support experience. And we all know which role will cry the most/loudest when their role sucks.

[@brandonray4493]

​​@@feelmypuddle4963it's slightly better for tank... you're still leaving every non dive tank on misery island... but the reality is you're just appeasing tank players and making support miserable again. We're literally repeating history at this point. Next, supports players cry and tranks get nerfed... don't need a crystal ball the predict this, it happened last year.

[@emma6648]

I think they should make it 4v4 and remove tank from the game

[@BTRshow]

Just make everyone damage characters and get rid of classes all together

[@NoItsFluffy]

facts

[@kingis_dingis8103]

I was watching a warm stream and he Unironically said that it should be 4v4 with 1 less dps.

[@matthewbrears2129]

@@BTRshowIt wouldn’t be the game I fell in love with (I loved the team play) but it would make the game better for the players they want to attract - brain dead DPS players

[@ryanwoods9608]

Then who would the DPS blame for not being able to get a pick?

[@whitegrill8809]

We are on the precipice of 2 converging timelines, dear friends. Whether or not either of these two things happen is up in the air but we shall see soon. Timeline one: “we have seen the discourse with the transition from 6v6 to 5v5, with the absence of one tank it has caused a shift in power dynamics that have inevitably lead to tanks needing to make up for how much they can be targeted. This unfortunately spirals into tank being the strongest role in the game and essentially leads to a tank V tank gameplay loop, which most players find unsatisfying. So starting today we will be moving forward with ideas, methods, balances and concepts to transition back to 6v6 in the not so distant future, for now balance patches will be relatively the same overall and around season 14-15 you can expect the return of 6v6” Timeline 2: “we have seen the discourse with the transition from 6v6 to 5v5, with the absence of one tank it has caused a shift in power dynamics that we have yet to be able to fully accommodate for. We still want to fully try to make this format shift work in game and allow tank to be a not so “everyone counter the tank”. Moving forward, we want to say that, at this current time, we have no plans to transition back to a 6v6 format now or in the foreseeable future. We hope we can find a balance that will make tank feel statisfying to play with, as and against.” Can’t wait to see which timeline we land on

[@WorldKeepsSpinnin]

Having hope is cute, but this is blizzard. There was only one timeline from the start. Their stance on 6v6 is clear, they dont want it.

[@pelican7235]

timeline 3: (silence) … heres a new mythic skin

[@arnedeckers6343]

Blizzard devs really out here showing us what the definition of insanity looks like, again and again doing the same shit and powercreeping one thing after the other and removing agency from the player

[@brandonray4493]

Glad to see you had the same reaction I did when I read those opening lines. "Not tanky enough" "Since season 8" CLUELESS

[@Wobez]

Tanks aren’t tanky enough because there’s only one tank. Add two tanks and all of a sudden they’re tanky all of a sudden

[@vaiguy6739]

Bap is the best tank in the game

[@chrislabedzski9076]

He is a support not a tank

[@ascientistanengineer8038]

@@chrislabedzski9076 bap really is the best tank in the game

[@Raihan_yt]

It’s like bailing out a rotting ship… sometimes u gotta fix the structure before you can sail smoothly

[@shooterDisease]

Leave her Johnny leave her

[@fg1astro824]

6v6 for life

[@ungo_the_don]

As a tank main, 5v5 is shit. Tank has 95% of the responsibility of the lobby. You have to manage your cooldowns, the cooldowns of all 5 enemies, peel damage, take space, tank damage and aggro all while not dying and feeding. It's miserable when you get rolled and boring when you roll. After finishing open queue placements, 5v5 open is NOT the answer btw. Balance the game around parameters that can be balanced. With 5v5, the game is fundamentally unbalanceable.

[@yamnbam4346]

Don’t forget toxicity from asshole teammates

[@BennyBornAgain]

I decided to get on and try a match. I lasted for like 8 minutes before I left. I’ve played since release of Overwatch. I loved this game. The game is cooked and so are the devs. I’ve been saying the whole time no way it’s corporate greed.

[@charlestonjew7587]

It's gonna be a shit-show. They spent the last 2+ years trying to mold OW into a 5v5 with countless reworks and balance passes that going back to 6v6 now is going to be 45 flavors of broken.

[@sebastianrodriguez8992]

Yup but people desperately want 6v6 back so guess we'll have to put up with that process so they can get their of so perfect 6v6 back with 0 flaws

[@axell9130]

6v6 I miss you

[@AirLight1646]

What Blizzard says about 6v6 will determine whether or not this game is dead to me. I’ll still play it but if they say 5v5 will stay then I’m not going to engage with the game on a competitive or higher level because it’s not worthy of my time. I’ll stick to custom games

[@WorldKeepsSpinnin]

The games already dead, we already know their opinion on 6v6 from what all the "sell out" content creators say. They speak directly from blizzard. Its very obvious. Dont get your hopes up.

[@cooltrainerjack]

Biggest issue with tanks right now is the inability to secure a kill, and then if you do start securing kills the enemy immediately counter swaps and stops you. And then your team is forced to do it. And it's just an endless cycle of counter picking and tanks doing nothing but soaking CDs

[@jigglyhamburgers9366]

It's so crazy that they are looking to buff tanks yet again, despite all the previous buffs, thinking that 'surely this will be the patch to fix tanking'

[@cal2538]

With 6v6, no one wanted to play tank; queue times were really, really long. So we got 5v5, and players actually starting playing tank. This may have been needed to get here, where we can now go back to 6v6.

[@cirno9349]

We’re gonna try every number on every hero before the devs understand that to make 5v5 work you have to redo 75% of the tanks

[@mvndoc]

Just tell us blizzard... Tell us if 6v6 is coming back, so I can just move on if it isn't

[@Grux_ASG]

You could drop rein hp by 200 and give him the power to lock his shield hp for 3 seconds so he can survive whole hog and bastion

[@atomtamadas]

The funny thing is that in 5v5 Mauga is a terrible tank since its either overpowered or useless, but in a 6v6 format Mauga could be an actually fun and balanced tank. Many of the heroes useless or overpowered b/c of 5v5, its not bad hero design as some heroes become bad in 5v5 automatically no matter how they are tweaked and revorked. As Steve Jobs joked once: the management is trying to steer the sinking ship to point in the right direction :)

[@caio9523]

Junker Queen as flex tank Will be incrible.

[@thederpydazer]

“Tanks aren’t tanky” a good ball is genuinely unkillable unless you swap to hard counters. It’s neither fun for ball mains (being hard countered) or the enemy team either and it’s baffling they don’t understand this

[@YoChrisyBoi]

Not even joking if they make tanks tankier instead of offering us 6v6 even as an optional game mode. Then I'm going to find another game. I think I've waited long enough

[@krono32]

OW's leadership is utterly hopeless at this point:(

[@HackedBeast]

The problem imo with tank is that all creativity is gone. In overwatch one, a multitude of options and play styles were available for tanks . For example, Zarya could play as an overwhelming rush hero, or she could off angle and still be a lethal character, or even be a little bit of both. Now every tank has to play in the same way, staying in front of the team, which is why characters like ball suffer so much from 5v5. Another aspect of creativity that has been completely removed is the ability to play into counters. If a ball were to play into a sombra and Cassidy in overwatch one, he could bait flashbang, shoot sombra midair before pile driving, and roll low so sombras hack could be cancelled. Now tanks are forced to play other heroes without being able to even try to play into those counters simply because there is only one tank, and if that tank gets countered, the entire team crumbles.

[@estermagdali]

Man they just have to bring back 6v6

[@michaelc7418]

Tanks have been "less tanky" since Season 9 because of the DPS Passive. The 75-100 HP Tanks got was not enough to make up for the DPS Passive being added.

[@DriplessShrimp]

Not true

[@anthonygaytan620]

@@DriplessShrimpYou’re wrong

[@DriplessShrimp]

@@anthonygaytan620 no you

[@sebastianrodriguez8992]

Goofy comments

[@finny01]

Please, i beg please bring back 6v6 we won't flame you as much as you think just please

[@sortascouseace]

Let's go, tank power creep it still won't fix anything but it's fun to see them try.

[@kempurin]

theyre trying everything but going back to 6v6

[@imbatman7495]

The problem with 5v5 is if one of your teammates died then the chances of you winning 4v5 is so incredibly low but the chance of winning 5v6 is a LOT higher than 4v5. + it's just not fun playing with 1 tank and feels so boring and dull and simple and I dont feel like I'm playing OW anymore

[@drakez4560]

One thing I feel people don't understand about Blizzard, is how prideful they are of their work, for everyone who doesn't know, the wow team spent over 15 years, yes you read that right, 15 years trying to get a single spell to work (combustion for fire mages if you are curious), and after having to hotfix it, up to 3 times in one day, they gave up, and made the spell just a critical chance buff increase, so with that knowledge, you can see how long they will keep power creeping the game and do pointless buff after buff after buff after buff, to try and make the 5v5 format work, ow2 has been out for 2 years, so there is a chance we are still 13 years away from them acknowledging that the format doesn't work, and changing it, so have fun :)

[@kingvalor8265]

Custa and other creators gonna feel like clowns if this goes through

[@illik4018]

They are trying to return to initial OW2. They figure that's was at its highest. So they going back. They don't realize we hate OW2. We want OW1 back.

[@jacobbaartz7710]

I think its unfair to characterise every patch during 5v5 as 5v5 specific, but all 6v6 problems were balancable. If we were to flip the script it'd be "HolymotherofGod, why are we adding role queue to this dogshit format, just go 5v5". Don't get me wrong, I think this patch will miss. I just think morally loading every single change ("oh except the dps passive is fair, because it's only QoL" ) as bad is reductive. Healthpools weren't increased in tandom with projectile increases under the same principal. Healthpools were increased in tandom with the dps passive (of reducing sustain) to rebalance the reward structure between burst and sustained damage. Healing imo still feels too strong, but I think the tanks would be lost without it atm. The projectile change was mainly to increase the effective range of predicted shots, as we heard blizz pre-OW2, that they'd reduce character acceleration for this. They realised in testing that the snappy fluid acceleration of ow movement was really important, and postponed the fix until a better solution cropped up (which I think is a really positive change). The only caveat I'd change with that season 9 patch is that hitscan don't have a substantial non-user influence over where the shots hit, I think hitscan should have stayed the same size, and rebalance other stats if need be. An example of the intuition pumping was the "omg we're adding back old broken armour, when will we 6v6". Where was this sentiment ever? Now that we made the change in 5v5 its another point for 6v6?

[@monki9941]

using tank synergy to sustain the tanks is much better that the tank sustaining by just existing

[@DetectivePikachu37347]

I just want to say is OverWatch a game that you can just play your favorite heroes and get volume regardless or a game you have to constantly counter pick to get value.

[@sebastianrodriguez8992]

You can get value with whoever it's just counter play exists but there's ways to play around it people just succumb to the meta and swap constantly You can outplay and outperform even your counters but people don't wanna learn Also obviously there's X character thats better than Y character that always happen but when you give people the freedom to pick whoever whenever there's always gonna be counter picking it's just other people ruining the experience for each other

[@missingeuphoria]

I think the most terrifying thing is, now that they've addressed 6v6 if they say 6v6 isn't possible, the game is going to lose a large percentage of players (myself included) who are still holding out hope that the game will ever get better.

[@Troy-gk8pr]

They have systematically done away with all real counter play.

[@NeonPheonix]

As a 4.5k peak, rank 40 eu tank I cannot play the game. It's boring, sure, I can make a difference when there's the perfect enemy comp to play into but the overall QOL is disgusting. I have never played a game more unenjoyable than overwatch - baring in mind I'm now stuck in diamond (I can't play more than 1 game per day because it's horror) they clearly don't understand how tanks were designed in the first place. Tanks aren't there to "take damage", they're there to avert attention away from their team and having one tank makes that nearly impossible. Feels like tank vs tank every game when 6v6 felt honestly incredibly balance The issue with overwatch was we got no content for YEARS and then when they released the new hero's they didn't fit into how overwatch worked at all. 5v5 is a cop out and shows how lazy the dev team is.

[@halfdragoness8767]

Flats said an interesting thing about the reason for no 6v6 chat is probably coming from higher up, not within the team. He also said something about Overwatch being playable on the Nintendo Switch but it can barely cope with rendering everything in 5v5 so it would never be able to keep up with all the infomation in 6v6. What if the reason there's no 6v6 chat from the devs is because Blizzard has some legal agreement with Nintendo where Overwatch has to be available on it, which means the whole game on all platforms is limitted by the Switch's hardware. Like maybe the devs all agree that 6v6 is better but they're not allowed to act on it because of a legal agreement.

[@LeafGreenHDD]

its cuz 5v5 queues are shorter

[@KaiBuscusHD]

They won’t go back, they’ll just say “oh 6v6 was a broken format”. We are talking about modern day developers with an emboldened egos. They won’t do it.

[@akai_shuichi_x]

I'm not confident their answer will resonate with people who prefer 6v6, especially since there aren't as many developers who were working at Blizz during that time, or that know about OW1's competitive history in enough depth. Not mentioning counterswapping at all in a post about how tank doesn't feel good feels extremely tone deaf too. Still, I'm glad they're finally addressing it instead of ignoring everyone.

[@patrickazzarella6729]

They don't understand "tanks don't feel tanky" because they can't play off a secondary tank anymore and fights reduce down to killing the other tank first

[@sampan04]

They talked win rate but didn't talk about pick rate in relation. Of course some heroes will have high win rate if the overall sample is smaller than other heroes

[@EnjoyerOfCats7]

They keep saying data this, numbers that. Yeah, sometimes the data is useful. But saying something like “our data and your experiences are aligned” leaves a sour taste in my mouth. Are you telling me the numbers have to back us up? We can’t just express feedback and have you take our word for it? 5v5 feels like shit. No data will tell you that. But we will. And data doesn’t buy skins.

[@atomicdog8985]

Remember the end of overwatch 1 when they said they were going to make the overwatch 2 tanks more like brawlers, and now they're just tankier than ever and getting tankier still

[@Haunsa1]

im thinking of 1 legit thing im gonna say this i think EVERY dev is only bronze because its only way you can say it different but its impossible to say tanks are not massive tanky as hell.

[@DJFlare84]

This whole debacle reminds me of For Honor's Defense Meta. Ubisoft could have addressed it by simply removing counter-guardbreak (guardbreak is a grab, so c-gb is just grab cancel), but were scared to do it because the playerbase would piss itself over cliffdrops (if you grabbed someone near a cliff or ledge you had the option to hurl them over it, resulting in a free OHKO). So instead they focused on nerfing parries hoping it would incentivise players to just NOT turtle so much (which, again, existed because gb could be countered. A broken rock-paper-scissors system). Just like Blizzard, they tried doing everything EXCEPT the ONLY VIABLE SOLUTION because they were more concerned about dumb things and misunderstood why the problem existed in the first place.

[@Theclooch]

#stopqueuingtank

[@GaaraFPS]

Or everyone can just stop playing period..

[@davidhvacddc]

5v5 was the nail in the coffin a year ago. We all knew it. I haven't played in 4 months now. Thank God. 15k hours in ow1. 1k in ow2. 0 hr last 4 months. =)

[@Chocoloshi]

The I need healing at 10:15 Was perfect

[@2286customx]

They will never offer 6v6 again.

[@Dario11457]

Samito, I’ve been with you since the beginning. It’s time to bend the devs arm or our beloved game will fade into nothingness forever. Do whatever you have to do. I and every true fan will stand with you for the sake of Overwatch. It’s time to put our feet down.

[@SykoTheOneNOnly]

I want to preference first that I don't particularly care whether the game is 5v5 or 6v6, but I want to ask because of genuine curiosity. Would tanks being tankier really be a problem? Let me elaborate. The thing is, it's particularly the tanks that have high sustain which ends up being meta, such as Hog, Mauga, and Orisa, so if more of the other tanks end up getting sustain, wouldn't that just lessen the gap between all tanks, leading to more tank picks based on map? There is so much value to be gained from eliminating a tank in a fight, so I understand focusing them down, but Sam, Spilo, and others also say that there should be some way to discourage shooting tanks, so wouldn't making tanks tankier be a good reason not to shoot them? I always thought that the shift to 5v5 and making tanks tankier meant that we had to focus more on eliminating the DPS and Supports first before focusing on the Tank. Again, I'm just asking if it really would be a problem if tanks were tankier because I'm not 100% sure whether if this would help the game or not, but I don't think it'd be a bad thing considering this format.

[@welliguess]

i just dont understand... who at blizzard is strong arming the 5v5 format.... like overwatch 2 compared to overwatch 1 is obviously worse... just change it back, no one will be made, the leadership messed up on the promises... just give us the game we fell in love with back.

[@GaaraFPS]

The investors. A more accessible game for the casual players means more players…

[@RIP_ZYZZ1738]

@@GaaraFPSBut even if we think like a greedy bastard, this approach doesn’t make sense. They won’t be able to milk this for longer than 2 years. A good product is what makes more money because people feel more comfortable buying cosmetics for a good game with a secure future. My point is that calling them greedy is giving them the benefit of the doubt. They’re just dumb

[@GaaraFPS]

@@RIP_ZYZZ1738 MY BROTHER PEOPLE THINK THAT the pink mercy skin re-release is out the kindness of their hearts. All that skin is going to do is not only pad their stats on steam for purchases, Show investors that money was spent on their game period not how much was actually made, and on the FINAL note if you really wanna give them the benefit of the doubt, the company gets a FAT write off where that’ll just put more money into The higher ups pockets instead of the game/employees like bro grow up “benefit of the doubt” Y’all really children out here.

[@GaaraFPS]

@@RIP_ZYZZ1738 they are just doing the same thing every other game does, drip feed content, release untested messes, balance off of how people feel about the game, nerf/buff for cosmetics. Like they just want money they don’t care how “comfortable” you are. They gave us hitbox/projectile size increases so they can already lock in the bad players To feeling better about themselves and there keeping an more accessible title for them to play everyday instead of having to worry about going back to other games and actually having to aim, like some type of critical thinking would be nice from anyone at this point *edit* my other comments are getting deleted so woohoo to any type of group discourse

[@GaaraFPS]

@@RIP_ZYZZ1738 my comment about the pink mercy skin just being used to spark interest in sales in the game and leading to one huge write offs for the blizzard executives so they can get a larger paycheck at the end of the year got deleted rip to being censored

[@JakeTheMan784]

I think the reason they are talking about buffing tank health pools is because any tank that isn’t Dva, Mauga or Ram will immediately fall over due to the mass amount of cool-downs being constantly pumped into their faces. However if they buff the health pools for tanks they then become too unkillable and make dps feel useless. At this point just go back to 6v6.

[@ZeroBankaiKing]

The odds are always against them.

[@To_random_to_dumb]

When part do they address 6v6?

[@tiggle5485]

I remember a time when tanks actually had clearly defined strengths and weaknesses. Rein was actually dangerous up close, but weak from a distance. Same with Zarya. Hog traded tankiness for damage. He fed ult charge, he could be stunned out of ult/vape, and he didn’t have headshot resistance. Even orisa had a clear purpose: good at range, weak up close. (Until they removed headshot on fortify and gave her all those goats-era microbuffs, not to mention 2 supports who shall not be named) Nowadays we have unkillable damage tanks with CC immunity. And sigma who’s permanently good because he does everything, and barely got any changes going into OW2 because his kit was so overloaded in OW1.

[@L33730]

Whats even more apparent is the discrepancies in matchmaking in general. The 6 vs 6 format at least was better in this regard. When I played some role que in comp and quick play it did remind me more of Overwatch. I did enjoy my games there recently. People seemed a bit more chill and were more flexible (not all the time but for the most part lol).

[@northerntoe]

“6v6 people keep moving the goal post” Meanwhile 5v5 hasn’t even finished building their own goal post

[@Star_Rattler]

ONCE AGAIN asking Samito's editor to RAISE THE VOLUME on these youtube videos PRETTY PLEASE!!!! I have to turn my pc and yt volume up WAY past what I normally have them! Pc volume usually around 25% and yt volume around 30-50% and I have to put my pc at around 60-70% volume and yt at 100% in order to hear Sam's videos. And yes I have my browser volume up all the way, too.

[@Star_Rattler]

not to mention having to lower the volume of everything else, and then swap back once I'm done watching Sam's video.

[@pepekovallin]

The song of healing on the background really is fitting