Overwatch 2 NEEDS HELP..... (dying)

[@ZenShepherd]

It’s admirable you’re still fighting for it. Between the garbage community, the inept dev team, disempowered cheaters and the lowering of the skill ceiling to nearly nothing the game deserves to die.

[@yaxxydesu5776]

And the shills 👀

[@WorldKeepsSpinnin]

​@@yaxxydesu5776yep, they all deserve the dead game. Just dont care anymore. Constant gaslighting as if people have short term memory. I was already complaing about 5v5 being bad from season 1. Fresh off playing overwatch 1 6v6. Its just cringe.

[@Lord_Nikon33]

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I've given them 10 seasons to fix the issues. Only it seems to get worse every season. I played 3 games this season but I won't be playing any longer.

[@12345kaizer]

Seriously the WORST community of any game I’ve ever seen

[@BTRshow]

Samito is working harder for overwatch than player 4

[@MaelCott1]

I'm starting to genuinely believe that Overwatch was a complete accident, that happened by pure chance, and that the devs are too incompetent to figure out what makes the game fun to play.

[@WorldKeepsSpinnin]

Probably some dev hard carried most of the game with his vision and then got layed off or something or knowing blizzard at that time someone saw a success and wanted to take over someone elses work and got them fired, and the rest of the team had no idea what to do after that.

[@202adr]

They somewhat did, but all of those people are gone now so yeah they dont now

[@erik6819]

guess what else, that famed august patch that was perfect back in 2020/21 was a complete accident too just happened to accidentally finally balance the game good, then they change the patch like 3 weeks later make the game worse and they still have consistently horrible balance updates since the inception of overwatch 1

[@pippo17173]

​@@202adr I stand my hot take that their was no good dev in this games life. All the devs from the start to today were awful.

[@RealEllenDeGeneres]

OW1 was built around teamwork and balanced for that. The issue is that most often, people don't play as a team and even if you do, if a single person on your team is performing poorly, then you just lose the match anyway most of the time. So they realized people don't usually play as a true team in most elos and decided to move towards more "clutch" potential with OW2. Except they had no idea what they were doing and OW isn't built to be like Valorant/CSGO, etc.The health pools are too high with support sustain and the whole flow of the game is setup so enemies pile on point, they don't spread out to watch angles like they do in Valorant. Which means in a 1v5 situation you're going to run into the full enemy team and you could hit nothing but headshots on an enemy and it does nothing because both supports can just heal thru it in most cases.

[@Noobish_Camper55]

Devs were told by pros in beta 5v5 was bad. They don't listen.

[@vicjctanuki7344]

If they did the dev's would have to address the existence of overwatch 2

[@boinggerss1560]

@@vicjctanuki7344PvE until we were lied to now I have 0 respect and trust but tbh the missions weren’t that good anyway I think it’s even more disrespectful that aaron comes on and makes a video pretending everything is funny and the outtakes will make him seem human when in reality he just keeps running away from the community

[@Real_MisterSir]

@@vicjctanuki7344 Well they still have to address the existence of OW2. And it's 10x worse having to address it now 2 years in, than prior to launch where you actually could still pivot and rebrand and market it before people knew what it was actually about. Eat the shit upfront. Something modern Blizzard has no concept of how to do.

[@LM-nb7rj]

Typical blizzard, they're incapable of admitting that their ideas suck

[@MrFlan1723]

When did this happen? I'm actually curious

[@ss3mania28]

Bring back 6v6

[@mothmatix]

I would return to the game when 6v6 returns

[@josephmccartney5951]

They should but they won’t cause blizzard is so invested in the money scheme 5v5

[@ragnarlothbrok1067]

Let the game die. There's nothing we can do

[@Mehno97]

@@ragnarlothbrok1067 apathy is for the weak minded. Theres always something people can do. If it works is something entirely different but you have to try.

[@fremzter]

This game has more problems than just 5v5.

[@JakeTheMan784]

I’ve literally just lost 3 games in a row on Reinhardt and every game I was told to counterswap or my team would intentionally throw. I’ve played since 2017. I’m actually fucking done with the game. If they bring back 6v6 and get their shit together I’ll consider coming back. But between the constant toxicity, insane prices, extreme downgrades and awful updates I’m just done. Rip the game I love.

[@firingallcylinders2949]

If you have 1 good team fight on Rein the enemy will go Bastion Pharah Mauga Zen next fight.

[@bruhscoutray]

I be wanting to blame the devs for the whole bad match up and counter-picking issue but its the players the fact people will intentionally throw or give up because you are not on the meta hero or dont wanna counterswap is a shitty ass community wish you luck man hopefully 6v6 comes back.

[@samlambert4770]

Pick your tank main on who you like fighting instead of who you like playing at this point

[@iannc4420]

That’s crazy honestly, 5v5 is a complete failure, all they have to do is go back to 6v6, address the sustain heroes, nerf certain cooldowns and let the heroes and the players thrive, super tanks was NOT the move. It’s a shame, the new heroes would be so fun in 6v6, imagine Ram & Queen brawling🔥

[@wajfan]

🚒

[@Ronin-kk4bt]

5v5 is killing this game!

[@iph2]

I feel like no content for a year to revert and balance everything back to 6v6 will actually put the coffin in the nail

[@iannc4420]

@@iph2 I don’t mind waiting a year for the biggest patch ever seen! This game is so unique, had some ideas.👇🏻 >Back to 6v6 > Suzu cleanses but doesn’t apply inmortality > Orisa while fortified can get headshoted > Nerfing brig and bap (a little) > Grasp eats incoming projectiles BUT doesn’t add shields. >Mauga and Queen cooldowns only apply for themselves >Buff Genji and Rein😂

[@wajfan]

@@iph2 that's the thing tho, is you're right. 6v6 somehow survived multiple years on life support with 0 content and only the scarcest and most terrible of patches. 5v5 routinely feels stale after just half a season of no balance changes. and what's even crazier is that it took 2 years to wait for 5v5, but we already have data from half a decade of 6v6 and a community practically BEGGING for it to come back. so many fan patches that would balance the game for 2 tanks exist. it would not take an entire year. they could adapt the workshop code into a quick play hacked in probably one week if they want it polished. unpolished, it would probably take legit about 20 minutes. the obstacle to bringing back 6v6 is not, and has never been, time commitment. it is the devs' stubbornness to stick with the current format because they fear they would be the laughingstock of the industry if they undid the only real reason for overwatch "2." i don't envy their position.

[@LordOfTheDeceased]

When you get a better dopamine response from hearing someone explain why Overwatch is dying instead of playing it, it's time to take a looooong break 😂

[@ytk3797]

Shit your right 😂

[@ziggos9810]

Its not longer Overwatch, its Over.

[@colinsguitar]

This comment hit me in the feels, I don’t want it to be over

[@WorldKeepsSpinnin]

​​@@colinsguitarwell, the devs do. Its not up to us. Ive seen the rise and fall of so many games at this point, always because of the owners / devs not listening and constantly making the game worse. Nothing you can do but watch your favorite game die, for no reason but a lack of iq from the devs and greed If i ever make a game and it has issues, i would beg and hope for the blessing of having people like samito To criticize and offer solutions to my game's problems. What a blessing, and yet they seem to think its a curse.

[@Cybrtronlazr]

​@@WorldKeepsSpinnin it's actually tragic because literally ALL they have to do is give full liberty to Samito or someone else qualified like ex-OWL players to tweak things and the game would be fixed easily within a week. So sad how clueless these idiot devs are.

[@vexesne9762]

Yeah you just need to watch

[@franciscoOrellana29]

​@@colinsguitarjust play other game my boi

[@ray8236]

Single Tank killed the game.

[@theuigauss]

No bad balance did that in the first and the secon one

[@Jigsaw090]

They have a chance to bring it back. Let’s see what the big brain Devs do. 6v6 ftw

[@itsbeeva]

@@theuigauss Abandoning the game after bad balance choices and then going to 5v5 instead of fixing those mistakes is what killed the game.

[@glisciousful]

It’s very hard to be a tank now a days , everyone always blames you for a loss 😢😢

[@MeWhenTheWhenThe3]

@@theuigaussnah, single tank killed the game alongside terrible hero balance.

[@Sol-qq8bb]

Spot on, no rewards. A million reskins for 19$+, wait 3+ months for pointless balance changes that keep dumbing down the game, tone dead devs. Bruh.... Tanks not tanky enough lmao try surviving a 1v1 against a tank.

[@boinggerss1560]

1v1 against a tank obviously you lose but 2v1 and tank loses even if they outplay unless you play the 3 and 2 of them have healing and high damage and orisa being able to negate CC

[@be4ut1ful.st4rl1ght]

man sounds like you need another tank to alleviate the pressure huh =]​@boinggerss1560

[@zhongliimpact6220]

you are not supposed to 1v1 a tank. It's a tank bruh

[@itsbeeva]

It's been infuriating how they've not addressed 6v6 aside from insulting 'nostalgia' tweets and sending creators like Custa to call Samito names. That's how you know they have absolutely no valid argument against it.

[@mjgg8680]

Aaron Keller made a statement on Twitter about 6v6 saying that they'll discuss It in the next dev blog or dev update. But who knows what they'll say on 6v6

[@BisonSlayer445]

@@mjgg8680they’re gonna give bullshit excuses why 6v6 isn’t possible

[@henressy9943]

Yall do the same thing on the other side though . Yall just claim 6v6 is better and no one can possibly like 5v5. I think everyone just needs to play new games lol

[@veiotisligon9140]

@@henressy9943no asked for 5v5 one reason people are tired of it nostalgia is also apart of it we started with 6v6 and they changed it for what? Queue times? Which is backwards because being a solo tank is miserable to play. The point is to have fun even when the game wasn’t the most balanced with double shield and lamp combos it was still way more fun then what we currently have

[@Desgaroth]

@@henressy9943 most people who played Overwatch 1 and overwatch 2 don't "Just" claim that 6v6 is better. Did you hear people at the beginning praising the 5v5 format for the first few months after the game came out? congratulations, you wittnessed the people enjoying the feeling of a fresh game, because they were content starved in overwatch 1 after not getting any updates in forever. But after the initial high went away they started to dislike the game and they could not point their finger at a cause. The biggest change was the switch from 6v6 to 5v5 and the balance changes that followed suit to try and make 5v5 work. There are reasons we liked 6v6 more but we are not dumb and claim that this will magically change everything, because keen players know that Overwatch 1 also had problems, but the problems would have been solvable with active support, which we were missing from the devs.

[@candy1049]

Example of how bad power creep, role passives, and just everything with OW2 RN. Tracer was considered one of the most balanced, but still engaging and skill expressive heroes in the game; Only getting an occasional small tweak throughout the entirety of OW1's lifetime. HOWEVER, when OW2 and especially Season 9 came around with role passives and health changes, Tracer become outright broken and needed to be changed every other patch or so.

[@Real_MisterSir]

I don't get how queue times is even an argument when 6v6 literally never had any attempt at a fix during the last 2-3 years of its life. Like what are we even comparing this to? Post GOATS 6v6?? How can anyone make a good-faith argument about queue times in 6v6 being worse than in 5v5, when literally the only quantifiable data we have to pull from, is from a literal dead game with no balancing for 2 years, and a total content drought. Where's the link to 6v6 in this? The only thing you can link the bad queue times to, is the fact that the game was dead. Doesn't matter if the format was 6v6 or 5v5 back then, the game was abandoned in CC hell and SIgma Orisa Bap Brig, and queue times would be miserable regardless. Meanwhile in 5v5 with all hands on deck AND FUCKING HALF THE TANK ROSTER KICKED OUT, WE STILL HAVE EQUAL OR WORSE QUEUE TIMES NOW THAN WE DID IN TOTALLY DEAD END OF LIFE OW1!!! HOW IS THIS EVEN AN ARGUMENT???

[@Cybrtronlazr]

Also the game now has MORE players than ever (because people who couldn't buy the game can now play it for free) and queue times are going back to the dead game zone because tank is still not fun to play. Absolutely crazy how queue times are even an argument.

[@gi1kxsy908]

funny thing is, maybe this is console only but the queue times in ow2 are like 2x as long as they were in ow1 if not longer. Even in quick play u have to wait like 15 minutes to play support... do u know how crazy a 15 min average wait for SUPPORT in QUICK PLAY (the least queued role in 6v6) Literally proves any role can have the longest wait if its the most powerful class, i guarantee changing to 6v6 would make tank the longest queue for like the first month cuz it would be fun again i mean shit the tank queues on console are always faster than the dps queue. Nobody is playing the most popular role thats a massive problem

[@Chazza-01]

Exactly. There is NO COMPARRISON between a game which had 0 updates during the worst period of it's lifespan, to a game which is getting constant updates and patches and content. The ONLY COMPARRISON YOU CAN MAKE IS THAT OW1 WAS BETTER DURING THEM TIMES THAN IT IS NOW IN OW2. It is actually CRAZY. I think blizzard sabotaged OW1, they purposefully made the next patch after October 2020 bad. To make OW2 look better than OW1, to make it worth the swap. To give people PTSD about the horrible content drought and double shield. Either that or they are incredibly dense. And the new dev team maybe better than OW1's however they sure don't understand their game. I don't think I remember 1 patch in 11 seasons that was fully good. (The closest one to being fully good was the one where Soj got nerfed railgun, however the Illari buff did sort of make her a little too strong)

[@icyatlasartworks]

They're comparing the speed of a rusty scooter with a wobbly wheel to their top sports car in its prime, seeing that their speeds are becoming equal, and somehow not scoping the issue there.

[@therealdeniedgift]

Also it's FTP NOW lmaooo I be waiting in my wide group games for 1+ hours and I'm not joking

[@P-39_Airacobra]

Cant wait for Marvel Rivals to come out. Not because I want to play it, but because Overwatch needs to be forced to move, or it will die in a swamp

[@UTgohan]

They are completely different games, one is a third person and the other is first person, also ppl will still play overwatch over it

[@P-39_Airacobra]

@@UTgohan the only difference between a first person and a third person game is a few numbers in code. Plenty of games allow you to switch between first and third person (even Overwatch lets you do this on a few heroes), are you switching genres every time you press a button? It's really just a minor detail so that they can pretend to be "unique" from Overwatch. Does it affect player experience? Yes. But does it transform the genre? No.

[@akai_shuichi_x]

My favorite quote was Jared (or maybe Aaron) saying in an interview with Flats that Overwatch has no competitors. I'm glad these new hero shooters are coming back, cause it'll force them to actually get their shit together.

[@mckinleyostvig7135]

If it was first person you would be right but 3rd person shooters suck

[@Matt.d13]

Bigger hitboxes is awful - it just makes bad people be higher than they should be which makes it more horrible to play.

[@avid-_-dsg3710]

agreed, i’ve been playing since OW1 beta. I’m top 500 on console (so not that good) but there will be people in my games that i swear are 5 year olds and are only there because of the hero ability’s and the large hitboxes.

[@ultraviolenc3]

I don't think it works this way. The distribution of players across the ranks wouldn't change.

[@Matt.d13]

@@ultraviolenc3 It would because people would have a harder time killing if they don't have good aim. Imagine hitting tracer in the head with her heads hitbox literally being her models head size lol

[@ultraviolenc3]

@@Matt.d13 but if everyone can hit targets easier, than there should be other aspects of the game that differentiate players between each other. The shape of distribution should stay the same, it's just how the elo system works. Mechanical skill is just less meaningful now, its weighted less among other skills. Personally I think it's a bad change, I don't like it. But it doesn't mean bad players were suddenly pushed up in ranjs, but rather players with bad mechanics and good something else.

[@gch910]

Love that Flatz is fed up tbh

[@lukasg4807]

When has he not bitched in the past 3 years?

[@ConciseCabbage]

He still defends 5v5 to the death. So forget Flats man. He’s worthless.

[@whiplash2891]

I love how in order to avoid 1 to 2 weeks of bad press for bringing back 6v6 (having to swallow their pride) thus admitting overwatch 2 is basically just a shop update they are instead willing to bring the game to new lows season after season after season. I used to play ow1 every single week. Never missed a loot box. Now I didn't even feel the game was worth the 50gb it took up on my SSD.

[@zhongliimpact6220]

same bro, I played ow1 every single day. Was my most played game ever. Now ow2 I played maybe200 hours then gave up....

[@zeroz294]

just because the ow1 dev team was bad doesn't mean the ow2 dev team is good

[@pippo17173]

Nope. My hot take is all the devs sucks. Including Jeff

[@ghoulbuster1]

The devs want money.

[@Void-Knull]

sure, but I'll take marginal improvements over nothing at all

[@Chazza-01]

@@Void-Knull Yes, if you get fed literal shit by 1 chef then they get replaced them with another chef which served rotting food atleast the new chef is better than the old chef right? This argumentation is stupid. How about WE GET FED PROPER FOOD? "Better than nothing at all" is so stupid, how the hell can we expect them to improve if we just sit idly getting served shit and praising them for being a very tiny slightly better than the previous devs? This is why I never get why Samito gets the hate from the OW community. He genuinely cares the most about the future of this game, and that is shown by his constant LOUD request for improvement. Sitting down and just taking what they give you is no way for this game to become the best it can be. This game is 11 seasons in, at what point is it a sunk cost. This is literal gambler mentality, "we have put so much into this new game, we HAVE to make it work". Next season is going to be the season where it makes or breaks the community, next season is going to where many people will see that this game is a sunk cost. Eventually the game is going to go into "debt" because they spun the slot machine 1 too many times and it is going to reach a point where we can't go back unless they get lucky and hit the jackpot (but I am not liking them odds).

[@adhf158]

​@@pippo17173 tbh its not really a hot take

[@TylerPayne21]

It's sad to think that the Overwatch dev team is not going to bring back 6v6 because they don't want to look stupid. 🤤

[@JAxz5]

the fact that we (me included) are waiting for a chinese game of a Disney brand, that will be filled with microtransaction, so we can move on from this game, says a lot

[@GUSSYAVO]

I really don’t want to play marvel rivals, the characters in that game for me are brain dead and the franchise died for me when they killed iron man, captain America,thanos and they made all the other characters dumb as f

[@Sam-vw4ks]

@@GUSSYAVOIm questioning of whether this is a legitimate reason or something else entirely?

[@salinaember9527]

@@GUSSYAVO no one cares about the marvel cinematic universe bro

[@אורז-צ5ט]

​@@GUSSYAVOif the gameplay is good most people will not care about the characters being from marvel universe and will play anyway.

[@TheUnseenKrab]

We? Probably you not me.

[@Bebopvicious00]

Sam I am with you. They constantly take away the fun parts. Dps Doom was fun, high skill ceiling and floor. And if you were good at him it was amazing to watch. Now his punch feels like a tickle. I bet if they put OW classic out people would actually realize how fun some of the mechanics in that game were.

[@RealEllenDeGeneres]

The nostalgia part is true kinda though. 6v6 is still better than what we have now, but 6v6 also sucked in a lot of ways. Most matches you'd spend 2 minutes poking for ult damage to do a big combo to win a team fight. Which is pretty boring. And you get maybe 3 combo attempts before the round is over. I honestly think Blizzard never had any idea what they were doing, people just loved Overwatch in the early days because it was something fresh to grind.

[@Cybrtronlazr]

​@@RealEllenDeGeneres how are big ult combos boring? Also you had plenty of playmaking opportunities like landing a huge cooldown or firestrike or anti without ults. Or absolutely diffing someone on Tracer or Genji. The moment a first pick would happen, your entire team strikes and doubles down on the kills it was crazy fun.

[@RealEllenDeGeneres]

@@Cybrtronlazr Big ult combos aren't boring. It's the lull between that's boring. Wtf are you talking about landing big "cooldowns" (you mean abilities)? That same thing applies to OW2. The difference is that OW1 had maps built to bunker teams on defense and 2 shields meant it was difficult/impossible to follow up on low HP targets most of the time. Either they get shield cover, or they get wall cover and you'd have to walk into a full team bunker and die to potentially get a trade.

[@mochi.20]

@@RealEllenDeGeneres I agree, there were a lot of stalemates forcing both teams to poke each other out until they built up their ult combos and that was boring. But, i felt like this problem was heavily sustained due to the fact that heroes like Sigma, OW1 Orisa, Bap, Brig, OW1 Echo, existed in the game. Their kits were just insanely loaded and strong, that they prevented any playmaking to happen and barely took any effort to get results. Meanwhile, there was simpler heroes like Rein, Winston, Ashe, Lucio, that had niche and unique kits that weren't strong but also required effort to get results. The powercreep with the decked out heroes were just not healthy for the game.

[@vape42069]

@@RealEllenDeGeneresyou’re doing the same thing now in ow2??? And that’s with 1 less tank… they have fucked this game up so bad, it’s less than than having 2 tanks which is insane lol

[@Ronin-kk4bt]

Sam you’re so spot on 100% there’s literally no special moments anymore no synergy no combos there’s no reward 5v5 is killing this game! It’s just the truth 6v6 needs to come back

[@deeleeryum]

As a person playing since ow1 launch. It was the same then with a lot of people. So,e people just don’t do teamwork unfortunately

[@jgomo3877]

Between 2017 and 2021 I played Overwatch for a total of 600+ hours. Since OW 2, I have played less than 6 hours.

[@TheIndulgers]

I'm just surprised it took some people 2 years to realize that what we have now is substantially worse than what we had back in OW1. Took me all of 2 months.

[@matthewbrears2129]

There’s no excitement in the game anymore. No excitement for big plays/combos/skins. It’s like it’s changed into a mobile game

[@RealEllenDeGeneres]

I keep uninstalling and reinstalling simply because nothing else is out right now on console. I keep uninstalling because within the first match of playing again, I just get angry. The matchmaking is abysmal, it's not competitive, and none of the heroes feel remotely fun anymore. I hard threw like 10 comp matches in a row last night and it was the most fun I've had in OW in years. Not playing OW is more fun than actually playing it lol.

[@Cybrtronlazr]

​@@RealEllenDeGeneres bro the game is so boring, I haven't played in months. It's kind of funny because in OW1 content drought I poured in more than 20x the hours I have in OW2 where we get new content. I recommend just uninstalling until 6v6. It's not gonna get any better from here.

[@Cybrtronlazr]

Very well put. That's exactly how I feel about the game. Like it's not even the metas or braindead gameplay, it's literally that the game is less fun and social. Idk how they could ruin such a good game like this but it is what it is. I would kill for OW1 levels of dopamine back.

[@branBRippin]

i'm pretty sure a mobile version was one of their long term goals and something that would justify the switch to 5v5. Just goes to show how their greed made them lose sight of what the game actually needs

[@RealEllenDeGeneres]

@@Cybrtronlazr Marvel Rivals and Fragpunk are coming out. Whichever one releases first, I'm playing that and never touching OW again.

[@tiggle5485]

Flats said he was, quote, “one shitty tank rotation patch away from becoming a 6v6er.”

[@gnagflow1001]

Im not sure if "dying" is the right word. It probably has a huge number of players still coming and going. What *is* dying for me is the special sauce. Everything feels sandpapered down to be as appealing as possible. I myself stopped playing several times but come back when they add new heroes but at the end of the day its not the same anymore and it feels like im just on a treadmill. Its been loosing Character for me

[@adalwolf8328]

Comparatively, it feels pretty much "dead", if you think back on Overwatch 1 days. The game was massive, community was lively, people were still excited for new events and heroes...etc.

[@chlve]

Open q is the answer

[@Real_MisterSir]

Actually playing the game, it feels way more dead now than in end-of-life 2022 OW1 did. And that game literally was dead, it was abandoned entirely for years. But it still retained some of that magic under all the cc hell and double shields and whatever else the devs didn't have the budget nor care to address. OW2 has no soul. It's just mimicking the game it replaced like some skinwalker that has taken over someone's body and is pretending to be them. OW2 is like Apple after Steve Jobs died. Just some marketing suits pretending they know what they're doing, leeching off of the brand identity that they themselves didn't build, with the only goal to further their own profit and ideologies as if they are in any capacity worthy.

[@jammyman7085]

Feels like it's had the soul ripped out of it is the best way I can describe it for me it's more so the little things I miss. Overwatch 2 is a skinwalker game it just feels off.

[@demifolk8940]

I only have fun playing dps, tank is miserable and so is support. Me and my friends get off after a couple matches out of boredom or frustration. No one has mentioned how the arcade modes have been decimated by 5v5 and the changes to tank. They are near unplayable, they used to be a fun break me and my friends did. The grouping thing as well. Comp sucks ass too, getting points is genuinely awful. Just terrible. the game is not dead, just in a miserable state. Stop coping and saying stupid shit like “erm actually, its dead in spirit”. bruh shut up it has players but half the playerbase is miserable and sticking around for that one special thing overwatch still has for them. could be community, could be a hero, maybe theyre almost to gm or at a certain achievement. or the little events that DO happen just barely keep you coming back

[@uriahthegreat5004]

The funny thing is people would say tank feels like ass and be like "I don't know if 6v6 would be the solution"

[@hellobro-f4l]

- tank suddenly feels like ass - balance team makes tanks tankier - tank still feels like ass because you’re a bigger target and have to absorb more damage for your team -balance team makes tanks less tanky - tank still feels like ass because you’re the only tank and have to make plays for your team but have less agency to do so -balance team says “the problem is tanks arent tanky enough” I legitimately cant believe that this is the spot the game is in .

[@mochi.20]

@@hellobro-f4l ^ - cycle restarts and continues from the beginning^ Lmao, tanks are just stuck in limbo, they can't find a good solution for tanks and so they just keep giving out reactionary balance changes and call it a day.

[@GraphiteBlimp27]

Generally speaking, In OW1 in a tank vs DPS matchup the tank would be slightly favored if they both have their cooldowns. If neither has cooldowns, the DPS are generally favored. Again, not a hard rule, but the point is tanks have more CD oriented power and DPS have more primary firepower. This way tanks could force DPS out of position but have to expend resources to do so and can’t just continually push and must regenerate, whereas DPS can hold the space by providing pressure and kiting the tanks. The DPS could punish a tank misusing their cooldowns and left wide open for attack, but a tank could catch a DPS who is not respecting their ability to take space.

[@ur0b0r0sXL]

at this point i believe if 6v6 returns we will owe it to samito. at least partly. im so glad this guy didnt get fed up and just abandon this game when its so easy and understandable to do so now. because besides samito almost NO other creator is advocating for 6v6 so loudly. They can beat around the bush and pretend they're middle of the road, but who else do we have who has really been planting their flag in the ground for something we KNOW is better??

[@demonknight]

Gs raider was right about everything

[@xcelestialdemon8245]

I think that the return of 6v6 is like "break glass in case of emergency" type shit. They KNOW that if the games about to die, that will breathe a little bit of life into it & a lot of people will come back... But they dont want to blow their load too early. If that makes sense? Like they dont want to waste their one trump card, so the things will have to get worse than they've ever been for yhem to use it.

[@zachariahnaidoo3765]

If a dev is reading this, please I beg you bring back 6v6.

[@toemasmeems]

So many people wrongfully banned, GOOD, HONEST, LOYAL people. My entire friend group got mass reported by a five stack and only suspended minus the sweetheart of the group who got PERMAbanned. She has gifted thousands and spent thousands to us all and she did not deserve that I’d rather they perma ban me. We have yet to talk to human at blizzard customer service. It’s been a month.

[@jimmyjab8744]

thats horrible what the - i hope they get their customer service shit together

[@A_Jetsfan]

Overwatch tried to make itself accessible to everyone no matter their skill, without realising a game for everyone is a game for no one.

[@yuri990]

As a former t500 role q and back in the day open q, player I only play open q now because it still kind of feels like the old Overwatch I love I peeked rank 16 and ended 23 last season so I’m happy. I do wish that the overall game was better though. Bring back 6v6.

[@wm8401]

Open Q is pretty legit. 2-2-1 is an atrocity.

[@jacobkelly1653]

The 5v5ers care more about not being wrong than everyone leaving the game because of how dogshit it feels to play. I say be not wrong because we all know they're not right

[@its_lucky2526]

i just realized that everyone wants external content to not be bored, because the gameplay dumbed down so much

[@tszyuk3861]

I come back to check on this game once in a while, after all these years, widow one shot is still there, moira is still there, the ridiculous amount of conflicting design philosophy such as shooter vs moba, solo vs team work, high risk low rewards vs low risk high rewards, it’s still the same piece of trash years later, to the dev team, put aside management, I’ll say this, your designers don’t deserve these great artists and programmers

[@TigerBlood-m4b]

You know as someone who has followed the genre since team fortress I'm very disappointed in the direction of overwatch, and not for the reason most are or at least subconsciously aware they are. Overwatch was supposed to be a game that's inviting to a side of the first person gaming community that's been neglected since tf2 created them. If I could ask the devs one thing I would ask them who keeps their game alive and why they think that's the case, and I bet if they had to answer truthfully they would say mercy, and the reason mercy is so popular and such a massive force keeping the game alive is because they got no where else to go, same with tanks and same with many flex dps enjoyers like genji mains, yet the support role that was originally designed for mercy and lucio players slowly has become the second dps role, and tank is now just the 3rd dps role. This games no longer catering to the people who can only call this game their home, ashe, Mcree and widow mains got a million homes but overwatch was supposed to be the home of people who want more from fps games than just shooting guns, and that's why it blew up, but now every support is just a dps with heals and tank is just a giga buffed dps where it's either orisa, mauga or hog, all tanks that are really just dps with big hp pools. Illari and bap are just dps that have now set the bar for what a supports job is too high for mercy to meet it and the same is the case for tank, so while 6v6 is a issue, this was the issue that ultimately killed the first iteration of the game. That and them just slapping broken support abilities on the dps supports, but I would have loved to see them keep the roles identities separate, so there is defined playerbases for each like at the start overwatch when it was fun. So 6v6 will definitely help but i have to disagree that ram will work without severe changes, and the support role will still be a dps role in disguise because of the fundamental designs of the supports. At this point i just hope someone realised what was special about the original game before they dumbed it down and added too many shooter heros to roles that shouldn't be so shooter oriented, and theyve maybe been working on a game to appeal to the mercy, rein and flex dps mains thats actually a first person game because otherwise this amazing side of the first person game genre is gonna die with ow1 and tf2.

[@hiimnifty3625]

Blizzard: "We are bringing back 6v6 our game was dying and we need more money" Me: "Nostalgia is a powerful drug, you don't actually miss making more money"

[@b1uezje]

Please remember what this exact same company said about WoW Classic. :) Almost like they tried to make the same argument. And were wrong. :D I'm so sad, man. I miss OW1.

[@extramentos6448]

bringing back 6v6 to fix most of tank issues and counter-swapping removing every single immortality ability in the game and singing a contract to never create one again trying to kill a tank as a dps these days feels awful, sometimes impossible due to (lifegrip, immortality drone, suzu) balance team needs pro or experienced players in it to help gold-SR devs understand the games better and make better decisions delete all s9 changes that only made some heros more powerful while others a lot weaker nobody asked for those changes (easier shots, bigger projectiles and higher HP) I could probably think of a few more things but those bug me the most for now

[@olegdusov4273]

Delete outside of ults: - AOE heals - AOE buffs - immortalities - double mitigation from tanks (orisa, sigma) Pretty much everything that needs to be done.

[@D00MFIST]

@@olegdusov4273honestly now that orisa was reworked, double sheids wouldn’t be a problem, also bastion turret isn’t forever so that gets rid of pirate ship, all we need to do is bring back 2nd tank, remove/rework lamp and suzu, and nerf brig and we will be golden

[@D00MFIST]

Also characters like ram could be a swap into a shield heavy comp

[@extramentos6448]

@@olegdusov4273 very true, AOE Heals/Effects really need to go as well

[@eternalblack3183]

​@@D00MFIST lamp could easily be his ultimate with a nerfed window to replace its spot as an ability

[@cl4709]

Finally Samito (and hopefully others) are coming around to questioning role queue. It was the reason A LOT of the famous dps players left overwatch. It obliterated queue times. It was a bandaid fix for bad balancing (goats) and it went against Jeff and the whole dev team’s core philosophy about Overwatch when they first created it. Yes getting one tricks sucked (we need a bigger avoid list). Yes goats was boring (nerf AOE healing). Yes getting 5 dps on a team happened (preferred queue and LFG would’ve fixed this)

[@MankoMeister]

As someone who played around that time, the issue to me was that Tank and Support were mechanically not fun to play. Not simply due to preference, but because the hero design was not engaging. I even went on to try Paladins, and was immediately surprised by how much more fun those roles were to play. Now OW2 has gone the path of making every character a JOAT and counterswapping is so bad that the game is more rock paper scissors than hero shooter.

[@DA-zc7kr]

Dude, every game before role que in Overwatch 1 would start as ppl doing 6 dps. Then ppl would gradually end the match on, guess what, 2-2-2.

[@CrypticSWLDN]

much respect sam, don't give up on this, people will thank you if it does happen again

[@s0nvr396]

Everyone should write mail addressing the issues to Aaron every day until he gets sick of receiving mail and does something about the game.

[@neilmallick20]

Yeah people like you are why nobody likes Samito's fans. Just read what you wrote.

[@hitbyatank]

I’ve never played OW1 but I genuinely wanna see 6v6 because everyone is saying bring it back

[@deeleeryum]

I respect that. It wasn’t any better but hey they should try it. It might be easier to fix, who knows. I played since launch and it still had similar probs, as a OW1 I’ve still be waiting for them to fix or balance the game properly, so who knows maybe 6v6 would be easier to fixed?

[@DA-zc7kr]

I mean, just imagine one more player on ur team, that says they're learning the game, by not learning the game. Just like they do now. Also that person says don't counter me, you're only supposed to have fun in qp, not try to have fun AND win. Cause that's sweaty. How dare they do both those things. 😂

[@fuwameanssoft]

Ok, respectfully, those other replies don’t know what they’re talking about. The other tank in 6v6 did two things, it split up the tanking responsibility so both tanks could do more without being chained to one position/playstyle, and it acted as a buffer for your team. What I mean by buffer is that it mitigated a lot of trash/spam damage that came your way, as well as being able to help someone getting attacked in the backline without completely abandoning the frontline. They could also help to control more space. Basically, right now, if the tank makes a mistake, the entire team often falls over. With an extra tank, that one mistake isn’t fatal because you have another tank to pick up their slack and give them time to recover.

[@leana339]

The Nostalgia take from jared made me go wtf. Like you can talk about Nostalgia when that was 10 years ago but when he tweeted that the game was a year in only lol

[@Sol-qq8bb]

Not only, but they legit left OW1 to die because they were "working on pve and ow2" then stating they never even worked on pve and released ow2 in beta state. Then kept ow2 in beta state many seasons in.

[@coldshock5181]

Ikr lol, people say it's all nostalgia but it wasn't even that long ago

[@AppleHelperITouch]

It’s literally been months since playing Overwatch, I’m happy to see Sam still fight for what’s right, sometimes the game has to die to see it resurrect itself

[@s0nvr396]

Also, I don't see why it has to be open or role q... you can have an open q with a role lock once the max number per role is met. First person to lock in tank, sold, tanks are locked out, choose DPS or Supp.

[@austinm223]

Sam, Flats, Spilo, SVB, Emiliath, Deku and many others are *not wrong* this is in its WORST possible state ever and is so unfun to play. I don't blame anyone for going to variety. It makes no sense how bad the devs let this game get. 5v5 was never the answer andnlnI will forever stand by that point.

[@maximum9977]

5v5 shills like: Double shield wasnt solveble bocuse they did 3 patches and it didnt help Same 5v5 shills Devs spent 2 years, reworked every single hero, every single role, added passives, changed all hp pools and hitboxes, but belive us 5v5 can be fixed

[@zhongliimpact6220]

maybe they should release overwatch 3, 4v4, 1 tank, 1 supp, 2 dps. Let's rework every single hero of the game but go back to 6v6 lol

[@jacobkelly1653]

5v5 is like definition of causing a problem and selling a solution but all the solutions make it worse

[@dogs-game-too]

This is the first time since OW1 launch that I'm no longer playing. I didnt even realize when it changed from s10 to s11. It's sad because it helped me stay in touch with buddies but now none of us play much

[@CJMattias]

I bet tank would be the most popular role if they went back to 6v6. Now we know how great it was. Compared to the garbage we now have.

[@martincamacho6093]

Marvel Rivals hype

[@sean48611]

My prediction is Marvel Rivals will be wildly successful (unless dead on arrival because of pay to win) and Overwatch will find an excuse to bring back 6v6 and be like "plz come back"

[@lasow4]

@@sean48611already confirmed no characters behind paywall

[@akai_shuichi_x]

12:50 I can see some ways where less options can lead to better gameplay. In breath of the wild, there's a lot of powerful combat options, but they're a limited resource. This makes it so a lot of times, the player might need to use unconventional or creative means to win a fight. If they could use all the arrows they wanted, they wouldn't need to get creative or make interesting gameplay choices. The same can happen in OW. During Spilo's interview, they mentioned that in Venture's beta they had shrapnel added to their primary fire. Players then poked a lot more even though it was purposely weak. By removing it, they forced the player to respect their range limitation, and take more risk. However, in a lot of ways 5v5 role queue as a format offers less options AND less creative choices. In 6v6 there were a lot of ways you could win a fight. Now those methods are more homogeneous, or offer a lower risk/reward ratio. Both counterswapping and unhealthy hero designs contribute to this. Counterswapping is just frustrating when it's harsh, and 5v5 allows less counterplay when you don't swap. Heroes like Mauga that do one thing annoyingly well (shooting tanks), and Kiriko that do everything extremely well, make the counter play options more boring. Playing very passively, or having to get through tons of cooldowns to feel like you have an impact. I don't care whether they go to 6v6 or iterate on 5v5. I just want tank and this game to be fun again, and I don't want to wait through years of experimenting for them to achieve that.

[@jsnmota220]

6 v6 was better. I’ve been playing since beta. It was way more dynamic. Just thinking about being able to use all of the new heroes in 6v6 seems way more interesting

[@danmarm5357]

Me and my friends in 6v6 were golden times even in the 2 years content drought. When OW everybody felt like it became and more stale game. Team play, tanks synergy and everything was all fun and laughs. OW 1 highs were the highest.

[@gch910]

Don't apologize for describing how you feel about it, it may end up getting echoed because a lot of people feel this way as you said.

[@DRUKENHOBO]

overwatch 2 was supose to be a PVE game with the ability to play multiplayer with overwatch 1 players. the ENTIRE game was scraped and then they made a format change to justify the change in name

[@engineergaming3830]

the end began with bap ngl

[@thederpydazer]

You could get rid of his immort and he’d still be high A tier

[@ratioed1438]

It started with Brig, lil bro.

[@ncascini01]

This game gives me anxiety now. Like, the amount of effort to get anything done causes me more stress than fun. I stopped playing it for a while because I refuse to play a game if I'm not feeling compelled to play it. Now, I've been wanting to play it lately and maybe even try comp again after a year. It's just not a good enough enough experience to offset all the anxiety it causes. It started to make me not want to play again.

[@hellobro-f4l]

when he said name one thing that fixed it he kinda sold me. ive been a 6v6er for a minute but i cant name one thing theyve tried where i wasnt just thinking “its fine theyll fix it in the coming seasons”. think about the tank timeline right now, “tanks arent tanky enough” “tanks are too tanky” and now “tanks arent tanky enough”. if their fix for an issue that theyve tried and failed to solve is the same solution that already didnt work and created the orisa mauga meta it proves to me that tank is an insane problem role thats impossible to fix with role lock in 5v5. paladins works with no role lock in 5v5. i think that could work. but the magic is gone, everything has been made either boring to play or annoying to play against. id be fine with more chaos even though i feel like i understand the game more now, im happy to understand it less if the game is actually fun again.

[@StallionTG]

I called it when overwatch 2 alpha play test, this game would be dead 2 years after release and we are WELL ON TRACK.

[@rouge_blackjack161]

The community has been very vocal and I’m here for it because we are tired of suffering from what’s fixable

[@deeleeryum]

Lol

[@WyattMeehan]

Keep up the fight! I feel the exact same way, like I lost my favorite game

[@afyyy9086]

Someone should tell the Devs " Did i ever tell you the Definition of Insanity?"

[@Vsauce596]

If you say overwatch is dead at least once a week then eventually you'll be right and can tell everyone "I told you so"

[@d3cayingc0rpse]

We need a real debate with Aaron and his team vs Samito and whoever else is on board with 6v6. And just debate with each other. Talk about why 5v5 and is it really because of queue times and talk about why 5v5 brings more problems etc.

[@Troy-gk8pr]

They have also systematically done away with any real counter play aside from counter picking. (EX- hog vape at will, Moira fade during ult, hog hook during ult...)

[@wojtek9172]

Samito gonna become Hokage one day. Believe it.

[@asdem5844]

Heres another quote from naruto *"becoming hokage doesnt mean that people will acknowledge you, but when the people acknowledge you, you can be hokage."* ~Itachi Uchiha

[@its_lucky2526]

#bringbackow1

[@EddieFonzarelli]

Just been playing a bit of Marvel rivals, and while it lacks elite level game making qualitys and polish like OW, its 6v6 and its good fun. Imo OW would benefit from another "sequel" one focus on making 6v6 a better game instead of wasting time on flop ideas like co-op and 5v5

[@eddybreezy]

"When everyone is super....no one will be." - Syndrome

[@RyuNoZero]

I have the feeling that 6v6 won't save Overwatch.. It will improve the Gameplay and the Playing Experience but OW2 is still predatorily monetized and not rewarding enough.. I mean seriously after hitting Battle Pass Rank 200.. what's there to do?

[@gch910]

I think what we have to accept is that this just isn't the same Blizzard we once knew. People have left, the people that made these games special are gone. It is a different company now.

[@MonkeyDLuffy-lp4qz]

I stuck with overwatch for 8 years because I enjoyed getting better and better and the skillful gameplay. Started in gold, and slowly made my way up to GM through the years. Even as the devs added tons of cc and braindead value into the game. As a Genji main, I still loved playing Genji in an uphill battle, the challenge of outskilling players on braindead heroes and grinding to become so mechanically skilled I could outplay all the BS. When season 9 hit it killed the game for me. It didn't feel like I was skillfully clutching it out anymore. Everything just feels watered down now. Out of all the bad balance decisions, the hitbox change was the one that hammered the nail into the coffin for me. Skill is dead in this game. They catered to the casual players that was participation trophies. I moved on to the Finals, which while they have a small player base, the game rewards skill.

[@sskuffyy]

This game is so done. Just end it already, Blizzard.

[@DA-zc7kr]

The people that play have to end it unfortunately. By not playing, by moving on.

[@salinaember9527]

victory is on the horizon. we must hold the frontline a few weeks more until rivals arrive.

[@TheHellsingHQ]

Marvel Rivals Beta will drop this month and OW"2" will be a wasteland. Rivals will offer what OW USED to offer and more than in the current state of OW. And, this will either kill OW "2" or it will have Blizz wake up and they go "we screwed up". Arron: "Who do think our competitors are?" Time to wake up Arron. These companies are going to do better what you have failed at as a game director.

[@corescorner1642]

What i find sad is that we have already cross the no return point. like respectively there are people who genuinely started playing in Overwatch 2 now. they never got to experience the game a lot of us old players experienced. their perspective is entirely based on what overwatch2 has turned into and the ramblings of an older audience that was held hostage to a new game they didn't want to play. But i'm convinced if we do walk it back the people who like how OW2 is now will be just like how we are with the current state of the game. this drastic game change has cut the community into factions and we let it fester too long. Overwatch 2 is fruit of the poisonous tree and we're here till it either dies or we walk away. it's the sad realization we all are having to face and it sucks! We spin our wheels nowadays on what all should be done but the bottom line is, this is what overwatch is and it's something a lot of us didn't sign up for...I want the past but we live in the present.

[@reesyloko5741]

Tbh the new players would be more acceptable to major change because every season since ow2 dropped we've gotten big changes like health changes character reworks map reworks new passives etc every season is a new shuffle of power for the game

[@corescorner1642]

@reesyloko5741 I'd be inclined to agree, but the game has, since the inception had a miriad of changes added for the sake of refeshing the meta. A fundamental change in the dynamic of the game was really only done 2 times. One is role queue and the other being 5v5 . Both divisive in nature. But my point is swapping 5v5 to 6v6 would be the third dynamic change that would splinter the overwatch community further and really only resetting us to what we were previously to an extent. As much as i want that not to be true, I think we as a community couldn't handle another huge change anytime soon. But speaking from experience. Having a 2nd person to shovel shit with in tank role makes it atleast more bareable that just doing the job solo, regardless if buffs.

[@LuLuTheGremlin]

It’s at this point I encourage games like marvel rivals to come and take it down. The devs need humbling.

[@destintofail9092]

Haven’t played in months and won’t unless 6v6 return I use to be a tank main

[@rizaadon]

Bring back 6v6 🗣️🗣️🗣️

[@ikkets]

I’m gonna say it. Widow (and sometimes hanzo) have always been this game’s crux. Every single meta is because of her ability to one shot. I have been playing this game since beta of ow1 and every meta that has ever come is to counter widow. She was always this game’s first domino to its downfall. Widow was good so people started playing dive, dive was so prevalent they released brig, brig changed the game’s format from open to role queue and you all know the rest from there. Widow is the game’s poison and always will be

[@zhongliimpact6220]

also the whole map design is all about how to not let Widow one shot everyone from spawn to spawn lol

[@therealdeniedgift]

People are now realizing why pharmercy is even more oppressive now than ow1..only dps can focus the duo but dps job is to shoot tank now so who is supposed peel for dps? Not the tank cause it pops and dies..not supps cause tank pops and dies...when there were 2 tanks there was the ability to peel for your team and work more cohesively then just play a glorified deathmatch respawn sim

[@clonetrooper2224]

It may be addressed later in the video, but the big streamers and YTers might need to just boycott OW completely until Blizzard decides to do something about the game or let it burn out and go to a better game that has passion behind it

[@pikisanto9235]

Let's make a movement #Bring_6v6_Back Can't believe they are making fun of you man... That's pathetic, keep up the fight Samito!!!

[@VladStopTalking]

I remember complaining about how bad 2 tanks were in 6v6, but somehow a single tank is worse.

[@tbagger5211]

I been playing so much more single player games and just moved to the first descendant , I was a player since day 1 of ow , they have made me mostly move on with this non sense . I’ll occasionally play but have moved on mostly at this point . I also was playing every day mostly from Day 1 to the end of ow 1. The lack of skill required now and making every thing easier plus lack of team play disinterested me

[@RavusRiven]

What if role-queue wasn’t a hard lock, and at any point in the game two players can agree to switch roles. Let’s say hypothetically the enemy team’s tank require’s a counter-swap to Zaria but the tanks not good at Zarya but the DPS is a Zarya main, in this scenario the DPS and Tank players can agree to swap roles mid-match

[@mckinleyostvig7135]

As someone who completely quit Overwatch I will go back to this being the only game I ever play Moira has to aim her primary fire. This was the greatest competitive FPS I have ever played before Moira and Brig were added to the game. You cannot have a competitive FPS where a character has an aimbot with lifesteal and infinite ammo and expect to be taken seriously. The addition of Moira and Brig was the moment every core FPS I know stopped playing this game. They largely fixed Brig but Moira is still the least fun character I have ever seen in any competitive game.

[@kalismols606]

Nah it definitely sombra and hog and getting yoloed by a random hanzo arrow that should not have hit me in the first place but because the hitboxes are atrocious

[@PhaxtolgiaLegacy]

One of two things need to happen: 1. Blizzard actually gets their shit together, brings back 6v6, rebrands OW2 to just OW. 2. OW2 flops harder & harder, and eventually a real OW killer appears. It appeals to just enough of the OW crowd to considerably reduce their player size.

[@Montesama314]

I don't know about the format differences since I never played, but the REASON I've never played is this: No gameplay rewards. Most things are stuck behind a paywall or a battlepass encouraging people to play. If it takes me a freaking year of daily challenge completions to get ONE really cool skin and that's added on top of gameplay that involves utterly lopsided roles, why play? It's unsatisfying. Regarding the format, though, even I can guess that having two tanks on a team means a tank player can engage in more diverse playstyles than he would if he is the only one. If, say, Reinhardt (who's about getting up close and personal but uses a shield to defend himself and others in the meantime) and Winston (who's mid-range with his gun but can surprisingly jump into or out of the fray) are expected to be equally viable tanks solo, then both of them will need to be more homogenous. For example, both need bigger health pools since they both will be taking bullets from all sides. That runs counter to the whole point of the game: engaging with a truly unique character in your role as part of a unique team composition. Again, this observation and deduction is from a guy who DOESN'T play the game.

[@XaviGMR]

Devs were targeting the wrong audience. Look at how they removed 2CP, yes it’s hard to capture points… BUT THATS THE POINT! Have a mode that is HARD to win! Give the advantage to one side and force the other team to unite as a team to win. Strategies and combos to break the lines. But because people couldn’t win on command they complained until it was gone. Why is having a difficult mode the problem?

[@TheGameMachineYT]

Okay 2cp is just ass man i love 6v6 but that gamemode needs to dead and buried

[@kulbabus]

Exactly. This game is for dummies right now.

[@WorldKeepsSpinnin]

Nah the problem with 2 cp was the map design imo, not the mode itself. The choke points were very non-interactive and its not really like overwatch is a game about "big cooldowns" other then ultimates, so it would just come down to a ult battle most times. 2 cp wasnt good and im glad its gone.

[@WorldKeepsSpinnin]

@nazarenomilohanich4883 well thats why, im just realistic with blizzard. Same way they wont go back 6v6 they wouldnt change the maps.

[@DA-zc7kr]

Because the common player doesn't want to "unite" with their team mates. They want to be the all star player, but that's not how this game works. Then eventually those people get tilted when it's not going their way. That's why I like playing Sombra. If you're team wasn't playing together before, ima make them by the end of this match. 😂

[@Icipher353]

Real competition from something like Marvel Rivals might be the kick in the ass the OW team needs to actually fix the game, but at this point, I honestly doubt that they know how to fix it. We've seen time and time again that the devs don't really understand their own game, so it's hard to see them having the understanding to know what needs to change to bring back the skill expression and creativity that it used to have.

[@Zangetsuuu]

Speaking as an Ex Tank main, I would love 6v6 back but they would defitnetly need to tone shit down. Mauga being in the game would be very problematic paired with another Tank. Can practically be immortal. Tone down damage, health and healing across the board and maybe bring back experimental card to test the changes there like twice a week with new changes every week to not split the playerbase.

[@jacobhoehn2812]

I am not going to lie the only think that one hundred percent worked for over watch 2 and helped the game was the ping system.

[@Drakguardian]

since ow2's release i was hyped over a fresh start to something new. my favorite hero, Genji, was viable! actually playable! but the one thing that annoyed me the most was when they nerfed him because of his high pickrate. just because someone has a high pickrate does not mean they are op, meta defining characters, it means they are actually useful and people actually enjoy playing said hero cause they aren't being oppressed by the power creep. then they nerfed hitscans along with one shot (except widow) while double fliers run free with a mercy pocket. i became a support player and i love lucio. his speed boost is more viable than his heals. and from personal experience it is irritating when a moira flanks, has insane range with damage along with it, can heal herself from orb with the passive healing and a low cd for fade makes her unfun to play against. call it a skill issue but it is insane how one swap can instantly turn a losing game into a winning one. i'm tired of defending a company that just seems as if they do not want to listen