The Diablo 4 Devs Are Facing Reality

A lot has happened! Team leader Rod Fergusson recently spoke about how their assumptions for Diablo 4 were challenged by it's playerbase. Season 5 is coming, and it's adding new content. But for many, it'll take Vessel of Hatred sticking the landing to recoup the game's image.

[@oteris2924]

I really wish Blizzard would just make a game, not a live service.

[@Absinthexx7]

Never gonna happen. Blizzards sole purpose is to milk as many pockets as possible with expansions and microtransactions. I just wish they’d make a good game, unironically best game they have out right now is probably hearthstone

[@yoda-y2374]

You only need to buy the game once every year

[@UToobUsername01]

Replay diablo 2 forever. Also Path of Exhile says hi.

[@terrythegnome2408]

yep live service is the worst thing to happen to games, ever. The golden age of video games is over and likely will never come back.

[@moderncreep9385]

They will stop as soon as people stop buying all the useless cosmetics.

[@mistersalesman]

They are lying when they say they went for D2. They went for engagement optimized grinding.

[@zacharynyberg7007]

Ya if it was anything like d2. We had rune words and actual crafting. And a cow or unicorn level.

[@Eskoxo]

lol d2 you could easily get shako in a few days farming mephisto d4 how they made it start was like 0.001% of people get thats not how it worked in d2

[@animalchin5082]

Well a lot of overarching design goals are/were in line with D2: slow levelling progression, hyper rare chase items (treasure class 85 uniques in D2), stats like +skills on gear. Now of course, all of those things work for D2 because of its progression and itemization which D4 severely lacked before S4

[@via_negativa6183]

They made it have a passing familiar look to D2 in style but absolutely not in substance. It's a joke, they duped everyone.

[@Valkaneer]

D2 was not a 200-300 hr grind fest to get to end game. It literally took 10 hours to get to lvl 70 and start Baal runs. D4 nerfed every possible quick way to grind and made the game as tedious as possible to make the average players take months. Also, D2 was not about reaching lvl 100, it was about Cow lvl and having fun. What part of D4 was about having fun? Every class is a build spender, that's not fun.

[@jens1639]

"We need to fund our live services", No one asked Blizzard for a live service. They came out with that one on their own. Tough shit about having to fund it. They are a company with live service games with a reputation for uneven quality in their output, which they have earned.

[@marsovac]

I ask them. I would not play something that doesn't have a live service and is single player, offline, and stale. If I wanted that I would still be playing D2R offline, but I got bored. D2 is no longer a good arpg. Times have changed. Games need to be shaken from time to time and arpg need endgame and less grind so that you can achieve most in them in a span of two months during a season and then cool off and wait for another content patch and things to be changed. You don't want to grind the same game for 20 years and never find a Zod rune like in D2. We all have our subjective opinions, and you would be astonished by how many are not aligned with your own.

[@rodrigobogado8756]

​@@marsovacfound the Blizzard employee

[@marsovac]

@@rodrigobogado8756 lol, I don't think it would be an enjoyable experience considering all the backlash they have :D But yes I am a proponent of live service games. They actually add to my experience of the game by keeping it fresh in cycles. But as I said, opinions are subjective. Some people just want to play a game on their own and when finished put it aside and call it done.

[@jcondo82]

Well, technically they don’t “have” to fund it 🤷‍♂️

[@HeathenTrucker]

Ummmm. Everyone wanted live servers..

[@libor2010]

Game made for investors and execs and NOT players.

[@buffbatman2]

Thats the real mistake. Games made for players are always the best for investors

[@MKO-USA]

Actually game made for developers by developers, last 10 years been what developers want to add to the game based on what they actually want and not what the users/players want to see in the game. How many times the developers continue to march in one direction when the community is telling them is not the right direction?

[@phsycotater3608]

@@MKO-USA The developers don't have a choice, the investors are who pays them. In the early stages of development, if you are a company that has investors, then all of your starting cash comes from them. Making them your boss until you have another income source. And that doesn't come until you have a finished game to sell, or until you start early access sales. We can scream at the devs that the plan isn't working until we're blue in the face, but they can't tell their boss that they are gonna change an entire aspect of the project without their permission. Also the attitude of Activision/Blizzard towards their employees since at least 2015 is "If you don't like what we're doing, there are millions of people who have dreamed of working at a AAA game company since they were kids. Get lost." TheQuartering had a whole video on it during the "Do you guys not have phones" controversy, and the "Free Hong Kong" Controversy.

[@0Lameran0]

@@phsycotater3608 no. the narrative "developers don't have choice" is such biased excuse. investors are there for money, not gameplay, Diablo 4 reeks with amateur developer choices and MAJORITY of issues the game has is not the monetization part. does live service sucks ? yes, shop is predatory ? yes, do they use every single dark pattern of greedy marketing ? absolutely. but if the Diablo 2 were live service most of us would have been playing that game. Diablo 4 lacks so many identity aspects of what is a Diablo game is the main offender here, and it is %100 developers fault. not putting overlay map is developer issue, removing inventory tetris is developer "choice", limiting skill choices so they can appeal to ultra mega casuals who enjoy Halsey and witchy mineral twitter cult is Developer choice, you can see that wherever any developer gets front of camera for promotional content. these are the people who making the game, is the real and true reason why Diablo 4 dog shit game, they didn't grow up with it, they do not know the culture of the game, and people assume this pile of shit only because investors didn't give enough time to cook ? get out of here.

[@tenaciousgamer6892]

@@0Lameran0 you can still trace that back to investors and excutives. Pushing games to be released as quickly as possiable, fix it later attitude. This is to meet quarterly earnings. Then there is loosing talent due to the company refusing to evovle and push there salaries to market standard all becuase they activision blizzard.

[@TheNuclearGeek]

We used to pay for games. Now we pay to be QA testers for years.

[@saitzo2325]

and we pay to buy a license to USE , lol.

[@yurikendal4868]

We pay to bug test their work. We pay them to do their work

[@shanephelps9532]

And once they’re finally done “fixing” the game they open pre orders for the next one.

[@TheNuclearGeek]

@@shanephelps9532 The eternal beta

[@ninjaman0003]

blizzard games have a fundamental issue at this point. why would i play a new release when it is 100% going to be the worst version of the game? why would i play once everything is fixed just for them to put out an expansion and break everything again? and why would i play when the game is dead but everything is finally good? blizz needs to stop dropping the ball right off the bat if they want to get consistent high numbers again.

[@Hybris51129]

One last thing to ask is 'Why would I play when the game is finally fixed but the servers and always online features are a year away from being shut down?'. I can't say how many times I have gotten a Diablo itch, reinstalled Diablo 2, played for a few weeks or months, then uninstalled, and not touch it again for a few months to 2-5 years over the last 20+ years. There is no way in hell I will pay anything close to a full game price for a game I can't play years down the road.

[@Jabarri74]

You just know the team on the expansion will have their own agenda and the game will be garbage at launch. I'm not pre-ordering and will watch others play it 1st

[@mikfhan]

So much money to save by just buying the PREVIOUS game on holiday sale when new one releases xD subscriptions and battle passes + mtx add up as well, so as always just avoid those like the plague they are.

[@KironX1]

They no longer have any talented people on staff because they cost too much so they either fired them all or they quit.

[@Saber_fgc]

Why play a blizz game at all

[@johnravely2872]

Blizzard thinks D2= grindy with slow leveling. Fans think D2= Runewords, Set items, Skill trees go to 99/no paragon, no aspects, Horadric cube crafting, killing Diablo at the end of the base game, having Paladins, no builder/spender, short/no cooldowns, no level-scaling, offline mode... Blizzard has no idea what people like, at all. They need more people who actually play games in charge. Want another example? Least popular zone to play in-in D2? Act3. This is where the D4 expansion takes place. Edit: Me: "D4 devs have a poor understanding of what made D2 popular." idiots still replying a week later: "d2 is an old game. Debate me!"

[@Jimmymonkeyboy]

Runewords are fun. Skill trees to 99 are just an illusion of choice, completely useless. Killing Diablo as a boss isn't some crazy great accomplishment. Paladins are just a class, probably coming later but doesnt take away from the classes available. You're right, builder spenders are dumb...lets just have spam spenders with no real combat loop. No cooldowns also equals spamming buttons with no real combat loop. Level scaling allows all content to be relevant, not just the last 1% of the game. Offline mode would be fine but doesn't make a game any better or worse, just more convenient. Take your rose tinted glasses off for a couple of minutes and join us in the current day and age of gaming :)

[@Dane_law-t]

lmao i just realized the expansion is in A3. thats hilarious

[@Shipdacheese]

@@Jimmymonkeyboy one thing i would add is there are no builder spender builds in D4. Not anymore at least.

[@jonpro9637]

​@Jimmymonkeyboy the "current year" of gaming is crap. If that's all you've known then that would explain your attitude

[@robertnegri1967]

@@Jimmymonkeyboy you have some valid points. But level scaling is the dumbest mechanic of all modern games. If the Quill Rat you fight at level 1 is just as strong at level 50 YOU DIDN’T GET STRONGER. And that doesn’t feel good as a gamer

[@charlesgentry3758]

So why are we making excuses for a billion dollar company? Doesnt make sense.

[@kesamek8537]

It's called peasant mentality and it's a real issue.

[@Bahrtuk]

social engineering

[@Spicy_Spores]

wild

[@markguyton2868]

Why is it that the more expensive these kind of games become, the worse they get?

[@Blackbirdone11]

Because they want the money back and put everything in it to make money. But that cost... money.....

[@KevinMannix-sf5zk]

Because the gamers that made them ,were given lots of money by the rich, So the gamers all left with the money and the rich people own the name of the game , then hire college grads who don't play games due to studying , and make them make a game they have never played and then don't allow them the time to test and play it when finished Buying a big name is a guaranteed bad game except when it comes from japan, they don't act like the west do , they are almost different humans really

[@Hartweizengriesspudding]

@@KevinMannix-sf5zkwhy is japanese gaming development built different?

[@pldcanfly]

​@@Hartweizengriesspudding Japanese culture is a lot more about being proud of what you are doing. Also a manager of a company that puts out a bad game is pretty much at fault, because they are usually not blaming it on the lower levels, and more on the fact "It happened under my watch, so ultimately it's my failure." That's why you see a Nintendo CEO forfeiting his wage when the wii-u failed, or apologizing for restarting development on Metroid Prime. In the western world that CEO would get his bonus doubled and fire 10% of the staff. And if it gets too bad, they golden parachute out to their private yacht.

[@KevinMannix-sf5zk]

@@Hartweizengriesspudding Religion and culture , in our culture we sacrifice , we are allowed and taught that to sacrifice someone for your benefit is a good thing , in reincarnation no one is sacrificed, So the object is that when you create something no one suffers the consequences of your creation

[@DixonYamouf]

Saving $140 this year by avoiding cod and d4 :)

[@Needler13]

I literally stopped buying cod after modern warfare 3 on the fucking 360

[@bheathrow]

Smart - the best way to save money is to not spend it.

[@3G00dboys41]

I'm probably buying both but I'm sure il hate my decision with Cod more than D4. The way every cod is bundled together under one App basically is shitty. And takes up way to many GB of space with all its b.s updates.

[@DixonYamouf]

@3G00dboys41 true that. Insane how bloated it became now that they put them all on one app

[@3G00dboys41]

@DixonYamouf Yeah I'm 30 so the Waw days were peak Cod for me. It's kinda dumb having all these skins of famous people as well. Miss it just being soldiers

[@charge416]

Rod Ferguson killed the Gears of War franchise. Doesn't surprise me he screwed up another one.

[@Weaver_Games]

Rod is an albatross around this game's neck.

[@phibu7517]

every mention of D2 from them is just a buzz word to keep engagement.

[@kesamek8537]

Totally, the people who made D2 are long gone, retired/dead years ago, replaced by low skill trash decision makers and developers that's the hard reality. I'm sure even the permashills like Rhyker know this in their hearts.

[@KevinMannix-sf5zk]

every mention of D2 tells me a D3 4 player meta thousands of hours in D3, that there is no Multiplayer game in D4 That's why they repeat it all the time, to inform me they are not trying to remake my game

[@SherrifOfNottingham]

@@kesamek8537 The point with people like Rhykker is that their content is dependent on people coming to his channel for Diablo and Blizzard related news. While they won't vanish on him for being critical of the game, he has to keep his criticism soft enough to not upset the playerbase of those games, which is where a majority of his viewer base comes from. Not that we have to be soft on him or forgive him for shilling, but it's important to understand where the bias is actually coming from, he's literally tried to branch out to PoE and Last Epoch, and he LOST viewership. Because when his audience saw those games being objectively better, they felt attacked and unsubbed.

[@SponsoredbyPfizer]

Diablo 2 devs designed an ARPG around being fun. Diablo 4 devs designed a game around making you waste as much time inside the game so you will buy cosmetics. They are lying when they say they gave us D2, and I actually find it stupid the devs would try to blame the customer for not liking what they gave us. If you call a turd Diablo 2 and try and sell it to me as that, it’s not my fault when I tell you your shit stinks.

[@terrylandess6072]

I myself mentioned D2 was popular because it keep the best of D1 and just expanded it. If they wanted to re-capture D2, they needed to play and understand D1. D3 was a waste to me as well so D4? No thankyou. Only D4 I like is from D&D.

[@livaveragegamer]

These "Our teams are too big, we have too much money in it" excuses are getting tiring. The solutions are so obvious. Why do we even talk about it like "Oh, well I guess that makes sense then" No it doesn't. In any other context or situation we would label these people morons and never do business with them. 😂 But here we are still trying to polish turds because Blizzard was our high school sweet heart back in 2007. It's hilarious. Just ask yourself, would you say the same thing if it was a Nexon game without the diablo name?

[@0Lameran0]

%100 correct take.

[@A-Duck]

I bought Diablo 4 without fully researching it. That was my bad. Had I known it would be some always online pseudo MMO with all the cancerous season passes and microtransaction trappings of modern live services, I never would have bought it to begin with. Silly me, I thought my experience with previous Diablos and the fact this one was a FULLY priced AAA was enough to justify the expectation I wouldn't be stepping into a greedy hellscape. Well, the wrong kind of hellscape, anyway... meant for my character, not me as a paying customer... Anyway, this is all to say I'm not on the same page as everyone else seems to be when discussing Diablo 4. Everyone's talking about their concerns for the health and viability of those aforementioned live service trappings, but I'm still back here completely indignant about their existence to begin with. I won't touch the game again until an offline mode is added, at _minimum._

[@Sorain1]

Then like I am, your never touching it (again in your case) because they'll never get rid of it. There is exactly one ARPG game I know of that added a fully offline mode post launch. It's not exactly a trend. (That game is Warhammer 40k Inquisitor Martyr, incidentally.)

[@A-Duck]

@@Sorain1 Yep, that about sums it. Not exactly cut up about it either, the game was mid. Didn't even finish the main story. I have a myriad of far better games left unfinished in my library that I would sooner revisit, even if Blizzard miraculously decided to fix all my issues with it. There is essentially zero chance I'll ever go near it again.

[@palecaptainwolfkayls8499]

Hype is overrated.

[@A-Duck]

@@palecaptainwolfkayls8499 Overrated might as well be the definition of hype at this point. Reality never measures up to it.

[@palecaptainwolfkayls8499]

@@A-Duck We’ve unfortunately learned to be excited for things we don’t know about. Ever since we’d given it a name, producers have tried to build it as tall as they can, not caring about the height of the fall. We know this very well from games like No Man’s Sky, Cyberpunk 2077, and especially The Day Before. Very few are willing to temper their consumers’ expectations. Hype *_Is_* overrated, fulfilling in exception, and a scam at its worst.

[@adambester3673]

honestly if its "live service" I don't want it.

[@SherrifOfNottingham]

live service isn't really the issue, it's the way live service games are designed to maximize engagement. What I like about Last Epoch is that they have avoided all major "Fomo" mechanisms within the game, the cosmetic shop isn't put in your face, you honestly don't see other players often enough to be jealous about their cosmetics, there's plenty of good looking armor and spell effects within the game itself without the cosmetic shop, the "seasons" (called cycles) that add content mechanics are not exclusive to the "cycle" characters, you can keep using your legacy characters from previous cycles and the only thing you miss out on is being on the ladder... which most of us aren't going to be on the ladder in a meaningful way anyway. For a "live service" game it's doing it all right. And lets not forget No Man's Sky, they've yet to put out a paid DLC and they're very much a live service game.

[@EyeofValor]

@@SherrifOfNottingham Last Epoch has FOMO with cosmetics.

[@SherrifOfNottingham]

@@EyeofValor The only Fomo I've seen with last epoch are the twitch drops, I honestly haven't seen the in game shop a single time so I don't even know if they've set up a Fomo front, I don't have to use it to buy stash tabs (which are just in game gold to buy not real money) I don't have nagware sending me to the shop and honestly I don't know how to even open it. Fact is compared to the competition they are miles ahead even if the shop IS a Fomo front simply because the shop isn't in your face and because, again, the gameplay has NO fomo in it. The launch "cycle" mechanic (the experimental gear) might have been lackluster, but it's still there, the new cycle (the harbinger's) is in the legacy characters so characters you made for the last cycle can just immediately jump into the game for the new cycle and it's mechanic/content. I'm not missing out on anything and, like I said, besides the twitch drops which I'm not a fan of, I haven't actually seen any other fomo in the game.

[@wohendumwing3ee9]

Never playing it unless you remove the "always online" nonsense. I DO NOT want to see other players in my game unless I CHOOSE to Co-Op. Also, EVERYTHING leveling up with me is BS. Those 2 things killed any interest I had in the game.

[@YeOldeMachine]

The level scaling is awful. I hate it in almost any type of RPG. You never feel the progression, and thats half the fun

[@wohendumwing3ee9]

@@YeOldeMachine Yep. I don't understand why it's a reoccurring thing in so many games. Skyrim did it too, and the only thing that saved it was that they also added a Difficulty Level choice so you could offset the level-scaling nonsense if you really wanted to.

[@San_Vito]

​@@wohendumwing3ee9It's recurring because it's the laziest way to "balance" an open world. And I hate it.

[@terrylandess6072]

You only have to balance the game once when everything scales with you. It's lazy but 'efficient' programing. They can also use that to keep every area 'relevant' (for those whom enjoy returning to starter areas).

[@terrylandess6072]

@@San_Vito Didn't see your reply first :P SO true eh?

[@kaikash]

The comparison in the interview about d2 and d4 really bothers me. He's gaslighting us, or worse, he has no idea what we want. We want meaningful loot. With D4 lauch, we had 5 Uber Uniques to farm. While sifting through rare items endlessly. Also, you can not get items for another class, easily. Limiting loot further. In D2, we had item bases, sockets, more rarities that were dynamic, affixes being higher on magic items, gems, RUNES? HELLO?, set items, uniques, And last but not least, 'uber' unique items that were quite rare. Some runes fall into this category. That's so much more depth just at face value. We do not want an Uber unique, and that's it. What we want to have meaningful loot. While hunting for a ber rune you might find enough runes to make a different runeword for another class. Fueling your drive to play more, and potentially find that ber rune on the new class. D2 and D4 have a different loot flow. It's unfortunate how he and the other designers don't see the true beauty of diablo. My bet is that they didn't want to do the work. We don't even have item bases aside from rings boots and weapons. Even then....do we really? 🎉 Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk 🎉

[@appleonsauce2035]

This 10000x d4 at launch was like someone who hated d2 describing the game. (insanely long grinds, not an issue in d2 where you can trade), (taking a long time to level, Not an issue in d2 since content doesn't arbitrarily scale in damage and resist based on your level), (dark gritty tone, they actully mostly got this right except the monsters all have huge torsos and small legs for some reason very cartoony) (ALSO SIDE NOT ANDARIEL HATES FIRE SHE IS LITERALLY WEAK TO IN AND HE UNIQUE LOWERS YOUR FIRE RES, IN D4 she does mostly fire attacks, she poisons you in d2.) (Duriel freezes you and beats the shit outta you he doesn't do poison attacks at all in d2). TLDR; It's extremely clear that -at the very least- the dev team didn't understand what made d2 great-, at the worst they took the most spiteful persons interpretation of the game while actually not having played it at all. I'm leaning toward the ladder. In short, fuck anyone at the d4 dev team that thinks the reason d4 had issues at launch is because it was too much like d2. It was NOTHING like d2.

[@appleonsauce2035]

i made many typos and errors in grammar i don't care this is a post about video games.

[@SuicidalBabyTTV]

itemization also felt good in d2. from novice to no life. d4 is just one bland pick up after another.

[@TacTicMint]

D4's a randomly generated loot pinata game. You can waste a lot of time looking through the garbage trying to figure what is actually good. From what I played It might be worse than D3.

[@RobBauer-lx6wr]

You absolutely nailed it.

[@illbean1337]

I've played a lot of D4. The more I played the worse it felt. The game is so fast paced and slow at the same time in different areas that doesn't make any sense to me. Game was shit on release, they've slowly been trying to make it better, not by making the game good, but by making it less shit while introducing new shit alongside the old still remaining shit. I've completely given up on the game and I won't even bother with the expansion or future seasons.

[@hubmanspencer7943]

Well, bye.

[@Bedlam83]

@@hubmanspencer7943 Keep grinding the pit!

[@JaGGeR-]

Welcome to the land of sensible people. Although, most of us over here didn't bother to waste our time and money on D4 in the first place, you're still welcome to join us. For your first week of recovery I suggest playing a game that is actually good then we'll revisit your condition.

[@raveturkey1996]

POE 2 is looking really good ;)

[@illbean1337]

I've been playing a few different games. I've never been a D4 fanboi. I'm already doing a lot better without it on my mind :) As for PoE2, that is absolutely looking promising and i'm very interested in checking it out when it releases.

[@DagothDaddy]

For everything D4 has done well and fixed there is still a lingering and noticeable issue of the Devs are not Diablo/ARPG fans. Yes they may like Diablo and play other ARPGs but they have repeatedly shown they don't understand what makes people want to play ARPGs to the degree hardcore diablo,POE and grimdawn ect. fans play ARPGs.

[@arglebargle5531]

Are they targeting hardcore fans though? Designers usually have a persona in mind, and I'm not sure that they have a strong reason to try and fight other ARPGs for hardcores when the midcores are probably a larger audience to design for.

[@adaa12345SixSevenEightNine]

@@arglebargle5531 Losing your core audience while chasing casuals has been the death of far too many games. Chasing non ARPG players and not understanding what makes people want to keep looting and trying new builds has cost Blizzard 2 game launches. D3, and D4 both had to be saved by post launch content the hardcore fans begged for to recover from their lackluster reputations. They better smarten up and start listening to the actual players or lose out to POE 2.

[@dankduelzperuvian]

@@adaa12345SixSevenEightNine "Diablo" 3 and 4 weren't saved though..

[@adaa12345SixSevenEightNine]

@@dankduelzperuvian You're being a bit pedantic about the word saved. I mean yeah the most hardcore ARPG players seem to still rather login to PoE or Last Epoch but the past 2 Diablo games recovered from a launch death spiral that should have killed them. Hell had they not been Blizzard products, it would have killed them. The recomendations made by the hardcore fans are what saved them even if the ARPG superfans aren't playing for more than the first week of a new season and every minute issue hasn't been fixed they are still much better games now for the casuals and hardcore players alike than they were at launch. Not perfect, but much better.

[@joelhodoborgas]

They are making a battlepass selling platform, the game is so easy a todler can do end game

[@mikesbasement6954]

Players really wanted Diablo 4. Instead we got World of Diablo. Did NOT want an MMO.

[@wohendumwing3ee9]

Never playing it unless you remove the "always online" nonsense. I DO NOT want to see other players in my game unless I CHOOSE to Co-Op. Also, EVERYTHING leveling up with me is BS. Those 2 things killed any interest I had in the game.

[@docdat3468]

A real diablo MMORPG would be great but not in top down

[@changthao4875]

No, we wanted a finish product not an alpha on release

[@docdat3468]

@@changthao4875 but it's more efficient to let the Q&A team "work ahead" and test things that aren't meant for testing and burn them out ^^

[@alessioleporati1478]

The MMO lite mechanic was a fun idea. I don't like playing games that feel like empty open worlds. When the world of sanctuary is filled with players, it feels more lived in. I see a bunch of different classes running around with player's custom looks and builds. It's a really solid feature. It makes D4 stand out from PoE which is basically a linear single player game which is not what I want to play. I don't mind the live service model. I would rather a game be live service than feel like "this is it". Knowing D4 is live service is knowing the devs will expand the game and add content which the game desperately needs. D2 has no difference between leagues. Each league is the same as the last. D4 each season could be anything. Could be season 4 or season 3. Who knows. It's fun. I like my games getting updated so long as they benefit the player.

[@melski9205]

It shocks, over and over, with every company that has ever owned a great game that they have no idea what made that game great.

[@mauree1618]

Usually because the people who made those games great don't work there anymore.

[@palecaptainwolfkayls8499]

Usually the ones trying to pursue the big name are mostly trying to get money for their shareholders or executives. That way, they have little obligation to make it a good name. Unless they’re 343i, in which case the executives just want to spite more than make money.

[@ZombieApocalypse09]

People did want Diablo 2-2. But the "pace of uber uniques" dropping and length of the grind is not the thing that makes Diablo 2 what it is. It's just a piece of it. This is Jay Wilson timing unique drop rates with a stop watch before D3 all over again. Do these guys not know what a game is? Have they never played one? The hypothesis that people wanted Diablo 2 was born out in D2:R sales. But they didn't deliver anything close to that. They delivered a shallow game with yes, a very long grind. But nobody wants to spend hours exploring a kiddie pool because there's no depth there. There's nothing to see. And that's d4's problem and one it hasn't fixed. They've made the dopamine cycle better for the seasonal level blitz. But that honestly is pretty boring in the end because what's the point of leveling yet another character for another season that has nothing to discover, experiment with, or do in it? The character's are as disposable as the 8,000,000 legendaries that drop on the way to level 100. Which makes all the gameplay feel even more hollow.

[@user-wg1gd5gg7s]

D2 was completely hollow without PvP. Not sure what rose tinted glasses people were wearing. The good runewords weren't achievable without paying for high level runes. I replayed D2R after thinking D2 was the best game ever made and its clear its aged pretty badly. If you're still playing to find a specific blue or yellow item with rare affixes for the sheer fk of it then you are in the minority.

[@ZombieApocalypse09]

@@user-wg1gd5gg7s Very few people play games in the way you describe. And the way game designers keep attempting to cater gameplay to the 1% of gamers who really enjoy the seasonal model and rushing through leveling to "endgame" is why the ARPG and MMORPG genres have become stale.

[@ZenMorph]

I did not want another D2. We already have D2-R. I would have preferred they go in a new direction. I like the idea of game content designed to get you engaged in the game world, not vaporous rifts etc. My go to ARPG is Grim Dawn, where much of the end game content is "in" the game world. Sure there are people who delve into Crucible and Shattered Realms, which are not appealing to me. Endless waves are a dull mechanic to me. Infernal Hordes is a disappointing direction for them to go in.

[@analogGigabyte]

D2 has aged like fine wine and I play D2R more than D4 at this point because D2 is a game for gamers that can keep you on your toes for years while D4 is an engagement optimized live service shop with the depth of a split hair

[@appleonsauce2035]

Saying d4 at launch was like d2 is just saying that you have no fucking clue about what people like from d2 and that you don't understand d2.

[@monody]

Just in the first couple minutes a big point is demonstrated. They have no clue what made D2 popular/good. They also don't get that longer grinds work for D2 because people had functional builds that worked without mega-rare items, and the big grinds were not tethered to any seasonal content or otherwise and instead a reward to collection-grinding. D4, by contrast, was/is focused almost exclusively on meta-grinding. EDIT: On a separate note for 6:40, I'd be inclined to say the opposite. The plot of D4 was largely a mistake to me, it was not well written and most the characters were driven by doing dumb things and putting themselves in bad circumstances. Lilith herself was a terribly bland character from the outset and served as a lacking central figure and antagonist.

[@Gamecapturevideo]

Agreed, and to add: it's a different era of games, too. Our expectations, and attention spans, have changed a lot since D2 came out. Audiences can't be assumed to be the same.

[@dankduelzperuvian]

"functional builds that worked without mega-rare items" yeah, ever since "Diablo" 3 builds have been enabled rather than improved by items.

[@lusalma5404]

I loved D1, enjoyed D2 and loved seasons on D3. D3 seasons were really accessible and a reason to dip back in. For d4, the story was interesting but... I think they offed Lilliith and the Angel too soon. I will say that Diablo has never been about a deep story though, but an interesting story that really left people curious. Still, I don't think anything they have done was quite as evocative as the DA Origin's reveal in the dwarf section.

[@wohendumwing3ee9]

Never playing it unless you remove the "always online" nonsense. I DO NOT want to see other players in my game unless I CHOOSE to Co-Op. Also, EVERYTHING leveling up with me is BS. Those 2 things killed any interest I had in the game.

[@snuffeldjuret]

yeah I did not like the story of d4

[@Benettor20]

Imagine charging your player base a further $40 for a game that still feels largely unfinished, only a year and a half after the game launched. Not to mention the exorbitant Cash Shop prices, Battle Pass AND Premium Battle Pass, lol. Truly shameless. But that's just BAU for Blizzard anyway. Meanwhile, Last Epoch 1.1 looks better and more exciting than all D4 seasons combined. Then, on the other hand, you have PoE2.

[@terrylandess6072]

I guess I was lucky to be there from the beginning with D1 and D2. After so many hours (days/weeks) I got my fill and the Looter games I find tedious inventory management instead of story driven as the standard game play loop.

[@SherrifOfNottingham]

Last Epoch is running circles around PoE, and PoE is running circles around Diablo 3/4. It almost amazes me how people are even discussing diablo at this point, Diablo 2 was a great game, D3 was a major disappointment. My brother got me D2:R and while I did enjoy going back to it for a bit, I beat the game (all 3 difficulties) in a weekend and realized that, the game was still fun, but honestly just reminded me of how much of a disappointment 3 was, and how glad I was that I didn't waste any money on 4 when I had LE.

[@terrylandess6072]

@@SherrifOfNottingham This was part of my thinking when after 2 the team lost people whom went on to release a highly publicized but failed Hellgate London.

[@Tamachii12]

They revamped a lot of stuff on the new PoE league and it already look WAY better than D4 in all fronts...

[@SherrifOfNottingham]

@@Tamachii12 Did they get rid of the skill web? No? Still requires you to be an aspie with three spreadsheets to make your own build? They didn't really revamp enough then.

[@Alpha17x]

I don't get how they think they went in the Diablo 2 direction. Absolutely nothing in the slightest measure resembles Diablo 2 as far as gameplay goes. No sets, no runes, no fast progression, no rapidly repeatable content. They follow this broken logic that everyone is going to tolerate waiting. Their core design philosophy across the entire company is ; 'How can we get people to wait as a long as possible at every step so that we can inflate 'monthly active user' numbers and lie to investors' Wait to cast a spell, wait to craft, wait to fight, wait to level, wait for respawns. They're slogan for everything should be 'just wait.

[@CrusaderGamin]

The no sets is insane. How did they make a diablo game without sets.. they even managed to forget to add Diablo in a diablo game...

[@ztarzcream]

@@CrusaderGamin That is kind of wild. Why even make a sequel if you're not going to build on what was already great?

[@Atmosfe4r]

If only the game was as polished as the cinematics...

[@lefmk7085]

If this was sarcasm, just ignore me. Literally D4 cinematics couldn't even make me feel anything versus the cinematics of both D2 and D3. I actually liked the cinematics of D3 a little more than 2, but 2 was the better game.

[@Atmosfe4r]

@@lefmk7085 Understandable, I was just making the point that the D4 cinematics are much better than the game turns out to be. D2 cinematics where godtier for their time and the D3 ones where very good aswell

[@MisfitMonkey]

Saying they went in the D2 direction.... is disgraceful and dishonest. It was the same exact systems as D3 but worse. The itemization, content, even the visuals are more D3 than D2.... the world.... etc. If they really thought that then they are more incompetent than I I realized, wow.

[@zacharynyberg7007]

Ya mostly what he said was a lie. The theme of d2, and at times… it has an essence of 2. But the modernization of 3.. he is acting like any politician at this point and lying

[@Jimmymonkeyboy]

They specifically made all the visuals dark and gritty because that’s what people liked about Diablo 2.They made the actual gameplay loop the grind to 100 and didn’t worry about a solid endgame at 100, like Diablo 2. They made itemization less streamlined than Diablo 3, like Diablo 2 was. You obviously don’t know what you’re talking about.

[@snuffeldjuret]

@@Jimmymonkeyboy what? itemization was nothing like d2.

[@m4stek]

@@Jimmymonkeyboyhave you ever played D2?

[@Jimmymonkeyboy]

@@m4stek Yes I have, several characters now. And without the nostalgia, and rose tinted glasses it hardly holds up as a current playable ARPG compared to D4, Last Epoch etc.

[@brandonwirtz2308]

D4 doesnt need new features. It needs to be remade.

[@henrychurch6062]

Diablo 4 is, out of all the Diablo clones out there, one of the most average and mid examples of the genre. The problem though is that while I would gladly pay $20 for it, (once and for all the content), they seem to think it's worth AAA money, battlepasses, and microtransactions... and I strongly disagree. This could have been a truly amazing game. Instead they made a truly amazing store with a very mid game attached.

[@KirelRed]

excellent way to put it. Awesome store, bleh game.

[@AndrewH1994]

The cosmetics in the store look really cool. Wish I could afford it, but since I can’t, I just play D3 and get some really cool gear and transmogs for free… Weird how paying for a full price game gets you stuck with some of the worst looking gear imaginable. Like I’m positive they intentionally made D4 gear look like trash to try to get people to BUY transmogs from the store.

[@michiganjack1337]

I bought it with the loot reborn sale, and after about 40 hours I feel like I’m done with it.

[@roadrash2005]

Get last epoch and have a better time

[@BellularNews]

Fair, do you feel you got decent value out of that?

[@roadrash2005]

@@BellularNews I still regret buying d4 and I haven’t played since launch week

[@michiganjack1337]

@@BellularNews I paid $40 so I got about an hour per dollar, there is potential for more value later, however at this moment I think $20 would be a better price for it.

[@Ilyak1986]

@@BellularNews If you're paying more than $1 per hour of actual fun, you're getting swindled IMO.

[@erbomb1]

"D4 bad" will make a return for season 5, mark my words.

[@GerdionXT]

Indeed but ppl will still drfend and play it....( If ppl stop playung for a month or two but it will never happend

[@thename5069]

​@GerdionXT I just started playing this game and it's absolutely fun. I think you both need to chill out

[@GerdionXT]

@@thename5069 yes at the start's it is fun. You are getting new items often ant it is fun but at the end game u realise it is boring end empty and changing build is not that fun because we don't have tabs for builds it self. At the end all classes have 2 top build anyway and the rest of them are useless. And even if I want to play D4 I see what devs are doing....what Blizzard is doing. New class that is coming is a new druid 2.0 even that we have 2 elemental character in the game already. Season /2/4...and 1/3/5 are done by do different teams and that's why three so much difference in quality between seasons. Long story short - Blizz don't understand hack and slash anymore IMHO - they are just coping LE Season 4 is the best so far - thats why u have fun man. You will play some time and realize why I said all of that . Anyway, have fun but I don't recommend playing Druid ...just play Barb

[@Complication84]

Nice attempt at gaslighting the playerbase. D4 was absolutely nothing like D2 in any way.

[@bennynutts16]

d4 is speed running the d3 timeline , its hilarious

[@Jimmymonkeyboy]

Its almost they figured out what ACTUALLY made a game fun with Diablo 3, but sat around listening to the Diablo 2 nostalgia crowd while developing the game. Now, they had to take the first year of the games launch reverting all that nonsense, and do what they should have done in the first place...made a better version of Diablo 3.

[@LordJaroh]

Not hard to make a better D3. That game is still bottom-feeder garbage. D4 being better is pretty much tripping over the bar.

[@MyN0N4M3]

@@LordJaroh D3 was amazing in terms of gameplay, it lacked in visuals and in long term progression game systems, at least until the dlc D2 gameplay is hot garbage and the backwards rewards system is the exact reason why D4 flopped so hard at launch

[@user-wg1gd5gg7s]

​@@JimmymonkeyboyYep lol. D3 was actually very good at the end. Both D3 and D4 are in a better spot than original D2 without nostalgia glasses.

[@LordJaroh]

@MyN0N4M3 There was nothing about D3 that made it a "good game", at launch or after. The gameplay was garbage. The shift in tone was garbage. The art direction was garbage. The systems within were garbage. It would have been fine as an arcade game set in the Diablo universe, but as a sequel in the series, it was junk. The only thing that it added to the series that was good was the inclusion of Treasure Goblins. There is a reason I would rather play D1 or D2 than D3 or D4. They are fun to play. The others, not so much. And considering that should be the number 1 goal of any game, it failed completely.

[@ArcDragoon]

PoE is FREE. Future PoE2 is planned to be FREE. Last Epoch is half the price of base D4, and will be a third of the price once we include the D4 expansion.

[@Jimmymonkeyboy]

PoE is not truly free if you actually plan to put any time into it, and you need a degree in theoretical physics if you care to ever play any optimized builds. Last Epoch is fun but still feels cheap somehow. And amazing that absolutely NOONE sits around bitching about their cosmetic shop, selling portal skins etc...Shouldn't all that just be part of the game you paid for? Entitled hypocrites :)

[@FinalDragoon63]

Honestly, if you're not excited for PoE2 just take some time and listen to Jonathan Rogers (Lead or POE2) talk about the game. He gets so excited and shows so much passion even when he's conceding things like Flask recovery and the in-town Well. That team at GGG isn't flawless but do they love making games and they do a great job at it.

[@LordJaroh]

​@Jimmymonkeyboy Probably because the game already includes lots of content already rather than nickel and diming people just to bring it up to below par. D4 is begging people for extrenuous amounts of money after launching for a ridiculous amount of money, all while not fixing the core issues of the game, and a lacking amount of content to begin with.

[@ArcDragoon]

@@Jimmymonkeyboy I'll be honest, I didn't even remember that Last Epoch had an in game store. Because the game never opens up into a menu for it. It never pops up any advertisement for it. It does no shady shit that tricks you into the store, whereas D4 has plenty of dark patterns. I only looked at the Last Epoch store once you mentioned it.

[@Dane_law-t]

@@LordJaroh Agree..it's comical

[@ludvikskp]

I regret buying it so much

[@Graavigala85]

if the game would have offline mode and no cosmetic shop I might give it a go

[@alexb9566]

The shop can just be ignored tbh. You can do all the content solo as well.

[@ClockworkAvatar]

@@alexb9566 it can't be ignored, because it a development sink. money is spent to make things for people to buy instead of making the game better. the problem is investors can't be happy with some money, they need ALL THE MONEY. and games will continue to get worse until the industry collapses.

[@thebluejester]

It not having an offline mode is crazy - we all know it is just to try drive people to buy cosmetics no matter what Rod and the devs say. LE has an mtx store and has an offline mode....small indie studio like Blizz cant do the same

[@Graavigala85]

@@alexb9566 sure, but all the things they put there is just away from the game to buy instead gain as reward of playing the game

[@Bedlam83]

Offline mode and the mmo-bloat removed would improve the game so much!

[@LockandLoad79]

Does D4 has an offline campaign mode ? Well, Last Epoch, Grim Dawn, and Titan Quest, do. And D2, even the Resurrected version, also do. So, why should I bother with a Live Service model game like D4, that depends so much on the existence of internet connection and servers ? Also D2 is ever green, because the fans always modding, thus keep on renewing D2. D4, there'll be no more D4 the moment the owner of servers pulls out the server pulgs.

[@Newsteller]

from all I have seen from this "rogue-like" mode that's going to be in the new season, I have to say it looks just so boring. +x% dmg here, take x% more dmg from enemy xyz etc... Why not "hitting an enemy spawns a poison nova under them that deals massive DoT dmg" or "here, have these whirling axes constantly orbit you" or "your attacks now have a massive cone-shaped cleave" or literally thousands of other options. To have fun and synergizing mechanics like that in a rouge-lite has been the state of the art for decades now. That way every run feels fresh and exciting, because there are so many combinations that you want to try. The fact that Blizzard don't understand what makes these kind of games fun is just sad.

[@genlando327plays2]

The problem with D4 is that they balanced the game towards the meta instead of away from it. If you aren't playing a top-tier meta build (aka Barbarian Bash) you're just not going to have fun. Period. In contrast specifically to D3 (and also to FREE PoE), you could play any decently built character and have a blast

[@deadract]

im playing other builds and having loads of fun. i think you have correlated fun to having to be top tier in order to have it.

[@genlando327plays2]

@@deadract I've played at least one "low to mid" tier build from every class and gotten nothing of any substance from any of them other than frustrated at being unable to kill things on a regular basis without taking WAY too much time

[@Needler13]

Say what people want about D3 but you could make some funky fun builds

[@razorgimpy3519]

i hope youre talking about d3 base game then because in reaper of souls the devs just made the meta with the sets doing 10000% extra damage etc.

[@genlando327plays2]

@@razorgimpy3519 you're not wrong... but they were easy to get and again, even a crap build could blow through content on max difficulty. That's nowhere near true with D4... on either count

[@anthonybettis2552]

Why wont they just admit already that the original Diablo 4 team was massively cut and the vast majority of what we got was mangled together by WoW internes and junior devs..... I'm not sure who they think they are clutching pearls for, any body moderately serious/aware about the subject this is obvious and I'm honestly just dissapointed everytime they try to gaslight people by acting like, oh yeah we meant to do this the whole time guys! we just put all the dogshit systems in place so we can keep us on our toes to take them all out later! years long grind for d2 uniques... i dont remember them even having uniques or VERY few when D4 launched.

[@brandonwirtz2308]

"It will need refinement" Understatement much?

[@gahzicoh1622]

RIP companies banking on live service.

[@noahbuster4333]

D2 over 1000 hours D3 over 500 hours D4 barely hit 60 when I just had enough. Damn even a year later and Blizz barely doing the bare minimum to keep D4 fun. Nope! Not getting any $ out of me again Blizz. Waiting for POE2 and Titan Quest 2. Way too many good games out there to waste your precious time on this mediocre, uninspired, and not creative game like D4.

[@DagothDaddy]

I've said the people working in D4 fundamentally do not understand why people play ARPGs. They are not working on a game they want to make they are making a game they were told to make.

[@BellularNews]

Which bits of D3 kept you going?

[@Frozone87ZA]

@@BellularNews The presentation cetainly didn't, but after RoS the loot game changed so drastically and I thought they got really brave with new builds and creating items that fundementally altered skills and builds for all classes. Sure it went completely overboard but it was fun foir the seasonal model especially. While I love D2 that works less well as a seasonal game - some items are just too rare and the entire economy is based on runes. I hated how runes dominated every aspect of D2 and in D3 they mercififully stopped that and no items were essentially unattainable in a season - waiting 10 years for a zod rune drop (if ever) after 1000's of hours is not good game design.

[@zacharynyberg7007]

@@Frozone87ZAnot entirely true on runes being the entire economy. If you ever got into the trading world it wasn’t just that… gems have value so do items. Runes cause runewords exist. But there are unique items on par with almost every runeword “except enigma, which may be the games truest only Uber unique”. If you felt runes totally overtook d2 you never actually played the game through to notice how wrong you are. Every character I own runs 1-2 runewords…. I have 6 characters I play. Runewords do not own d2. It’s just another avenue of gear progression your to lazy to understand

[@Frozone87ZA]

@@zacharynyberg7007 a lot of very sweeping assumptions there but keep believing what you will. Look up trade values for all items in D2 and they are usually priced in runes. All very good items especially with higher runes. So yes you can find lots of decent items but best I slot items for weapon, offhand and chest are all runewords for most builds. And contrary to what you may have anecdotally assumed from one comment - I have made an enigma, self found, FYI. Another D2 grind elitist, grow up.

[@b.o.4492]

We wanted a Pally and they had to give us a ESG character that fit the area nobody wanted. Hooray!

[@bobbybologna3029]

I cant get a proper Paladin in any RPGs anymore, wtf... they were standard dungeon crawlers before it was cool...

[@Gogsi90]

The Binding of issac is more complex and has more overall mechanichs while also having a higher skill ciling...what a disgrace for Blizzard.

[@Gildorify]

While I agree, The Binding of Isaac is not in the same genre of Diablo 4. D4 is an action RPG while The Binding of Isaac is a rogue-lite.

[@Gogsi90]

@@Gildorify Indeed not the same genre, but D4 as an action RPG should have both things listed above and MORE not less(its got a bigger shop ofc)

[@Jimmymonkeyboy]

Binding of Isaac is 13 years old. Guess why don’t we wait and see how much content D4 has after 13 years.

[@nattythepanda4692]

@@Jimmymonkeyboy None because D4 is a live service game, it won't actually be up in 13 years.

[@Jimmymonkeyboy]

@@nattythepanda4692 Diablo 3 would like to have a word with you...And that had NO monetization after the xpac and Necro pack. Diablo 4 will be just fine.

[@CielBlanche]

Last Epoch is a fucking incredible game that puts D4 to shame, go play it, it was designed by actual sentient humans

[@Decay611]

This man gets it. Can't wait for Tuesday

[@robertlefeaux]

I gave it a shot, but the only pc format I have is my steam deck and last epoch runs horribly on it.

[@tasandmnm69]

If they put it on Xbox id be playing it. Tried PoE but the talent trees are just way, way too much. Where D4 talents are way, way too linear and devoid of player choice or agency PoE swings way too hard the other direction. I want to be able to theory craft stuff myself but I am not willing to get a PoE degree or follow a guide to the letter like its homework. PoE2 looks so damn good I just hope it is possible for average people with arpg experience to build fun and high performing characters because if I cant then thats half the game for me and probably my favorite half.

[@parabpbpbp]

no its not, its worse then d4

[@0taku912]

Diablo 4 likes to cut out the good parts of Diablo and focuses on the worst parts of Diablo.

[@Khadharphak]

Currency, currency, currency, oh boy. I don't even play D4 and it gives me anxiety. Why do you need to do world shit to get infernal compasses? Just let players do the event. Busywork bullshit in stuff they've already done just to gain access to the actual new content. This is greater riftstones from D3 all over again. And then you add the scrolls on top of that to obfuscate your busywork even harder?

[@lexslate2476]

Eyes glazed over. Ten thousand currencies. Also the notion of giving money to Actilizzard at this point feels kind of gross.

[@wexoriann]

Belular does not play Path of exile or some other arpgs if he had played he would have good examples for refferences and why diablo 4 is behind them MILES away.

[@wmdank4918]

"Were listening to our customers. We're making this more like D2." Runewords and a paladin? "You get Witch Doctor V2 and another Season of Testing"

[@user-wg1gd5gg7s]

Why do people keep talking about runewords like they were absolutely the pinnacle of D2? Runewords sucked lol. They made almost all other gear pointless and it was near impossible to get the really good runewords without paying for runes or literally playing 24/7. There was 0 end game content in D2 except PvP. Literally 0. Just doing Baal and Mephisto runs over and over and over and over and over and over and over with a MF build. People are completely delusional when it comes to their D2 love. I played D2 from launch to LoD until D3 came out. Its time to move on boys. Stuck in the past.

[@wmdank4918]

@user-wg1gd5gg7s the joke is that, blizzard Says they listen to customer feedback then just goes with whatever they Think we want. My issue with d4 is honestly the storage system. Admittedly I used "runeword" because people are familiar with it. But I dont think a two handed scythe should take up the same space as an amulet in theinventory. Larger items should take up more space and be able to have more sockets added to them instead of just the 1. With the D2 system, it actually forced us to do resource management with the spaces and size difference of items or the number of sockets. Same with the charms. They took up valuable item space for minor stat boosts that were also valuable. I just realized how long this was. Sorry for the rant lol.

[@vierwhey]

They missed put in Witch doctor since the expansion is based on the act 3 from Diablo 2 jungle where the Witch doctor is thematic from.

[@CrusaderGamin]

I agree the new class looks dumb. They could add Amazon and witch Dr but they decided to add something nobody wants

[@Nommieibtes]

nobody liked witchdoctor either aka necromancer at home

[@RyanAggabao]

They should've put in an updated WD, chance for devs to lift the class from least played

[@yoda-y2374]

As a many years d3 player, here is my advise: D4 bad

[@ittadakimaho]

My personal take here is the usual .. do not trust in any blizz output. Give it some weeks .. maybe month to cook. Chances are its full of frontloaded bang and quickly vanishing fun.

[@bazwell6735]

The only thing that drove me away from D4 is the agressive monetization and the fact that everything they did was aimed at making us, who had just bought a really expensive game, keep spending money, day after day. The cash shop harassment, the battlepass, the free battlepass that gave 4/5 of a cosmetic set. I'd rather play indie games that respect their players than this.

[@dj4aces]

Remember, if the statement made last year is correct, there's two different teams working on seasons... and season five is being brought to us by the same people who made season one and season three. With that in mind, I had low expectations for season five. If nothing changes, season five will be one more season that I choose to skip. As for Soec, we're already one of the weakest classes, if not *the* weakest class (assuming they fix the bugs with the new items). Nerfs are acceptable in many cases, but you don't take an already weak class and make it even weaker.

[@Knowbody42]

Even nerfing the more powerful classes is not necessarily a good thing if it destroys fun. It's usually better to buff the weaker classes, and if they are considered "too powerful", you introduce bigger challenges.

[@Eckythump]

Does the game have green armour sets yet like D2 and D3? No? Then still not interested.

[@snuffeldjuret]

that was the best thing going from d1 to d2. Seeing that green was a joy.

[@AndrewH1994]

There will be, but you’ll have to pay for it…..

[@MrEagorath]

the only thing they did that was D2 in D4 was the darker gritty kind of aestetic in the trailer

[@zazoreal5536]

When we asked for Diablo 2.....We wanted the good stuff....they clearly thought we wanted the bad stuff. I mean.....Just look the Paladin is nowhere to be seen. One of the best classes in Diablo EVER! People have wanted the return of the Paladin for AGEs Diablo 3 was like "we will give you something better than the Paladin! The crusader! Plays with crusader and finds out it is a slow, no real aura, no true ZEAL version of the Paladin.....AKA Discount Paladin! I just can't take the D4 devs seriously when they can't produce results. They still haven't fixed the Balance completely and there are still builds that are completely broken.

[@IRGeamer]

Booby Cocktick's gamification of micro-transactions is what drove this OG Diablo 2 Battle Chest owner away. I saw the writing on the wall the first week of D3 when I couldn't log on (thus could not even start the game past the launch/error screen) for multiple days after pre-ordering full price. It was the very last time I will ever pre-order and was the the second last purchase from Acti/Bliz... I was a fool and gave them a second chance with the D3 expansion out of desperate, wilfully ignorant hope. Never again...

[@fracturedraptor7846]

The problem is they put greed before gameplay. They know what people want. Instead they tried to deliver mediocre shit and expected praise for it. Make no mistake. They released it like it was, and kept it that way, on purpose. It doesn't take six months to fix resistances. You don't release a game with the same fucking problems the two games before it had and corrected. They willfully did this shit and it's why Blizzard will never get another dime from me. They've been added to the list with Ubislop and EA.

[@user-kh4qx9fg1k]

One word: Wardrobe. Figure it out.

[@Shadowslave604]

they went for a cash grab right from the start. DLC should never cost as much as the game unless it is same size or larger with massive content. $100 for a dlc is obnoxious.

[@whathanul5798]

The first rule of balancing games should be to keep it fun.

[@micheljolicoeur6094]

Vessel of Greed, $90 expansion ROFL.

[@dough254]

They gotta fix the base game. Before they can even talk about an expansion. Ain’t buying.

[@rtremblay24]

This is one of the worst games ever made if you go by quality of gameplay per dollar spent on development.

[@TwiceBubaigawara-dl5ln]

Destiny2 enters the chat

[@iEATW0RLDS]

Also when you consider all the other arpgs they could have learned from....but apparently chose not too. Lol they made D4 like it was the very first arpg ever made.

[@iEATW0RLDS]

​@TwiceBubaigawara-dl5ln except Destiny 2 was and still is a wildly popular game...and it was released what, 7 years ago or some shit?

[@1TotalJabroni]

D4 was a cash grab, it needed another 2-3 years of development but they knew they had just enough on the skeleton to release it in a nearly barebones state and make hundreds of millions of dollars, which they did. However, I firmly believe that eating cost and fleshing the game out would've been much better for them in the long run. People will still play D4 enough to make it profitable for another few years, especially for the overpriced expansions and new classes, but this game is doomed. It has 3-4 years left at best, because the seasonal content is so lackluster and they've already dug themselves in on what they want to do with itemization. There will never be interesting crafting or endgame or good bosses in this game. The latest season is an improvement, but it also doomed the game's potential because they took the D3 route, and the game has very limited content or replay value. Once you play it for a week or two (depending on how much you play) it just turns into D3 2.0, you're just mindlessly grinding for marginal upgrades or making a new character to wind up at the same point again.

[@Plainsburner]

@@1TotalJabroni I don't think they would have gotten much further even with another 3 years, they seem to go backwards in their design just as much as they go forward with all the bureaucracy they wade through.

[@yellowraincoat.]

i love ARPGs and Diablo and I don't know what it is but for the last two seasons I've created a character and around an hour in thought, 'Yeeeahhh, nah I'm good' and stopped playing. It's much improved since launch but I just don't care for some reason lol.

[@jadedj5385]

MTX feels so forced in D4. The emotes and costumes feel over-the-top when the base costumes nail the tone of the story and world just fine.

[@WhatASausage179]

They need to be over the top..if they looked the same as the base customisation options then no one would buy them

[@jadedj5385]

@@WhatASausage179 I understand the rationale behind it all. I just think they missed the mark on design relevance with respect to the mood of the story and world.

[@WhatASausage179]

@jadedj5385 I agree with certain skins..like that bdsm rogue one. No idea how that fits into diablo at all

[@jeffbitterly7891]

The original Diablo III that was being developed by Blizzard North was the game the player base wanted (and deserved). It was dark and gothic just like DI and DII but it took the logical next step re: the social aspect by introducing things like an open world and town/trading hubs to enhance the experience of things that made DII great (like trading). Ironically, Blizzard proper opposed the direction Blizzard North was taking Diablo III because they felt it would compete with World of Warcraft (still in development) and the rest is history. The Diablo III we got was such a disappointment because Jay Wilson convinced himself that Diablo was something that was broken and must be overhauled vs something that just needed to be improved/evolved. I remember immediately feeling let down when I realized how linear it was (smaller more predictable areas and dungeons). Almost everything felt like a step backwards EXCEPT the combat system. Killing monsters felt great! The story sucked, the art sucked, the loot sucked, the systems sucked BUT it was really fun being in combat. Diablo III ended up being a good game, it’s just not a Diablo game IMO. It broke too hard from its predecessors. Diablo IV is a good game. It’s fun to play but suffers from the same issues Diablo III did with the most fundamental issue being a terrible and uninteresting loot system. This also robs the game of any meaningful economy as there is no long term attachment to characters with seasons etc.

[@MATCHLESS789]

Played an hour of D4 demo and already saw what's it's gonna be. All the streamers and you tubers were glazing it up though, including Asmon.. and then it released.

[@Sabolch919]

Yeah people glazed it hard, still do, I for one knew it will be a mediocre game with a big price tag and live service focus, I gave it a fair chance with xbox game pass this season to see how it is, and I wasn't wrong in the slightest. And this is supposed to be the "fix" update, so I might have been too generous in the past.

[@kesamek8537]

That is their job. They don't work for the audience. They work for the corporates. Content creators are not your friends.

[@raveturkey1996]

I tried to warn them man. I told em yeah act 1 was pretty cool, amazing graphics interesting story etc. etc. but what about the rest of the game? What about the endgame? and why does the combat feel a bit... trash? You still trust blizzard to NOT mess this up? So glad I didn't pre-order lol

[@1969bones69]

Asmon wow forgot about him...never understood the appeal of that dude. Has he showered yet? Total scrub.

[@sam.deherdt]

I really would like a way to easily switch between builds and maybe like items that can change skills or skills that can have different options: like bonestorm that can be turned into a shadow storm or lightning skills that can be changed to poison skills etc or if you wear dagers/swords you get more weapon specific skills.

[@2fat4airborne44]

they really dont know anything. how could they as they never experienced it and what made it so big at the time. those people really arent Diablo fans at all. it shows that they really dont play ARPGs or have expertise. They poke arouund and see what sticks in a really slow pace. The game feels done after few hours because nothing changes but numbers. all the same from start to finish

[@0Lameran0]

i am glad someone else did realize and voicing this. dev team so amateur they need tour guide and supposed tour guide (Rod Fergusson) also clueless.

[@Aetrion]

The biggest thing stopping me from playing Diablo 4 is all the season nonsense. I want a game that welcomes me back and lets me continue my adventure when I feel like playing again, not a game that goes "Haha, your characters have gone bad, make a new one!" Nope, not doing it.

[@jdmaine51084]

Diablo 2 Ressurected

[@thanganbabp5570]

poe is free

[@estebanstrangiato]

questionable take. stash tabs become mandatory after the campaign

[@olchum7605]

​@@estebanstrangiatoFuture poe seasons are free and you don't have to buy expansions

[@PaulSmith-nb6md]

It is also overly complicated. I don't even understand the skill board.

[@AaronMichaelLong]

So much developer bullshit retcon/gaslighting. Diablo 4 launched as a minimum-viable product. Hopelessly unbalanced class design, glacial progression, and stupendously resource-intensive gear upgrades. Meanwhile the actual game was just tedium interespersed by nonsensical railroad story as the player character is forced to mutely cooperate as they're set up for predictable backstabs and betrayals. The ultimate output was a game which was *INFERIOR* to the game which replaced it. This is not to say that Reaper of Souls was without flaws, but the trouble is, the "fixes" introduced to address those flaws made them worse. D3's core design problem was rigidity and lack of player customization. The best gear in the game dropped from the highest rifts, and you could only run the highest rifts with ruthlessly minmaxed item sets which dictated your skills, build, and playstyle. If you had six favorite skills on your favorite class, you had better pray that the developers like that combination of skills as well, because if they didn't, you'd be unable to play the way you wanted to past Hard difficulty. Diablo 4's solution? They reverted to skill trees, which seemed like a step in the right direction, except the trees they built were *LINES*. So, instead of having lots of choices and few viable ones, you just had very few choices. The outcome is the same: You don't get to make a character, you have to play the one the developers force-feed you. Why do they keep doing this? What is so goddamned difficult about just giving player different skills, and letting them to pick and choose which ones they want to use?

[@tylerpetersen6226]

They have ~6 months before path of exile 2 drops according to leaks and based on everything I have been seeing from PoE2 D4 is not ready for the storm ahead.

[@aldawgd]

What? POE 2 is getting almost no fan fare from new players. Most Poe 1 fans are excited but a lot our upset that the game speed is drastically slowed down to the point it will be an almost different feeling game. Add on the fact that it not even out yet and the graphics appears to look like a rpg from 10 years ago and I think your over selling yourself

[@Furzkampfbomber]

As someone who grew up in the GDR, I automatically become wary when I hear '5-year plan'. Because as I've experienced it, they all go belly-up every. single. time. And usually quite spectacularly, I might add.

[@aliasv6964]

I've played 5 necromances in D4. Each season and Launch. I'll probably be interested enough with the gameplay to do a season run, but I have 0 interest in the added story. I already saw a random girl who makes bad choices shoehorned into my diablo game releasing a prime evil cause they are a twat. It was D3 I don't care for a playback.

[@animalchin5082]

Oh yeah I prefer the rational male diablo characters making good choices like Aidan, Marius or Farnham.

[@aliasv6964]

@@animalchin5082 Yea but there lots of cool guys less for us girls. On top of it I kinda feel this is too close ya know. She is a mage with a dark mage mother unexperienced delving deeper into magicks having 0 common sense and we have no option to slap some sense into her. She is releasing Mephisto we all know it and seen it coming it's just too much of a copy paste job and it hard to feel excited ya know? She is just a worse Leah and I don't understand why it was done a 2nd time.

[@AnterianEvo]

Release the paladin class, i bet people would love to come back for that. Still thinks it's a shame they ignored that staple class..

[@vincenthammons-kd9du]

diablo without paladin is like the earth without oxygen

[@clementguitard6653]

they will release it in the second or third expansion for sure

[@dragon_dyce]

i dont think they gave the D2 slow paced game a chance, they launched the game in Beta, it was not a complete game, NM Dungeons were boring (no seasonal mechanics in them) and itemization was very bad, i think it could of turned out good but not under the circumstances it launched in

[@Jimmymonkeyboy]

It honestly isn't what the MAJORITY of gamers want.

[@Bedlam83]

The MMO-part of D4 absolutely killed it for me. The grinding, the item explosions with dozens of items on the screen every few seconds, the world polluted by other players etc. I pumped a few hours into the endgame but decided relatively soon that I'm done with it for good. I killed Duriel but no way I'm gonna farm the pit and nightmare dungeons for dozens of hours only to kill three or so tormented bosses. I'd rather replay D1 und D2 over and over again.

[@drjagged]

Thanks for pointing out his reference to D2..cuz I’m like uhh that shit is nothing like d2.

[@vbun4662]

I feel like I dodged a bullet never getting in to any Blizzard games. It feels like their fans only know disappointment and are on strict copium regimens.

[@Orionhart]

I wouldn't play Diablo 4 if it were free and they paid me to download it instead. Sorry ABK, you're never getting my player statistic again.

[@nadebothd4006]

Bro its the full circle lmfao, I literally told people "You think you hate D3" lmao it warms my heart to see this dumpster fire still has some embers smoldering and some dedicated trash burners still standing by waiting to throw another $40 in the tank and hoping the engine will stop knocking lmaoooooo.

[@SuicidalBabyTTV]

like d2? how in the f? thats not even comparable unless you have no clue what that means.

[@robsands6656]

Waves. Great. So standing in a small space waiting for enemies to appear. Exactly what adventure games are all about.

[@Schtiffles]

Diablo 4 needed to be Diablo 3 but set in their new beautiful open world with fresh story and fresh progression. Instead we got damage on tuesdays and heavily subdued visual effects (higher quality, but much more subdued). Diablo 3 had it down to a science, there was no reason to go back to Diablo 2 style.

[@zacharynyberg7007]

No. I actually think d3 was total shit. And there’s a decently large community who agrees. D3… was not down to a science you know that. First 3 years was fucking rough. D2 and d3 are so vastly different it created a completely different community for each. Then 4 comes along…. Their fucked just cause they chose to fuck d2 community. And some how piss off the d3 community for how much d4 is like d3, it’s only d2 in terms of looks and atheistic. As some one whose a faaaaaar and long time Diablo player… 4 may be the worst despite how much I fucking despise 3

[@snuffeldjuret]

d4 is just a blur to me, a blur with the word "vulnerable" plastered all over the screen.

[@Katie-hb8iq]

14:37 - While it's okay to nerf in games, the Sorc was already the worst or second worst class and they just nerfed it even more. Meanwhile, the Barb is so overtuned and can do 50+ tiers higher than a Sorc and it was not touched much. Why not nerf that? This is the problem. People aren't complaining about nerfs - they are complaining because the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing, and the balance is all over the place.

[@dragonfalcon8474]

Blizzard is NOT the same Blizzard as D2, one of the best games ever. Blizzard now cares about milking gamers for $$$. D4 is garbage, imo.

[@JussiMustola90]

PoE2 vs D4 wont be even competition in the eyes of core gamers

[@MrHiglon]

I just wanna play a cool hot character like Valla and not a bunch of developers. Only the barbarian is kinda there tbh.

[@nexcorvus7854]

Imagine you are running through the Helltide killing demons while following your pin and suddenly you heard "TURN RIGHT AT THE NEXT JUNCTION", "IN 500M, TURN RIGHT", "TURN RIGHT"

[@chrisbenson98]

I think most people expect a full new game every season. Or an endgame to a game that has no end. These have always been find and grind games. Seasonal quests can only go so far. The current meta is to introduce new unique items and shake up the endgame builds, and fixing the bugs that those create in the mid season patches. Hopefully the expansion addresses the class balance issues with a couple classes, and doesn’t create another class vacuum, where 1-2 classes dominate the build scene. I’ll still be here for it, but that’s because I grew up on find and grind, with absolutely no endgame in sight. Season 4 should have been called the season of tempering expectations.

[@titanshub]

What a bunch of bullsh!!*. D4 was mechanically nothing like D2. Nobody wanted D3 to be remade. Blizzard has and continues to fail absolutely and completely.

[@WhatIfMessmerHadAChargeBlade]

pisses me off that people just 'forget' about blizzards horse shit and go right back to the game. darthmicrotransaction is the king of 'this game depresses me' then posts 15 videos about the game

[@Jessethoth]

Loot was far more interesting in Diablo 2 and the star of the show is THE LOOT. The affixes and stats in D4's loot are about as boring as D3's. Something people don't mention a lot in these videos (and I'm guessing it's lack of familiarity with D1 and D2 especially) is that 1 and 2 were made by a TOTALLY DIFFERENT TEAM. They built such a solid foundation for how iso ARPGs work and the D3 and D4 devs were WoW devs. I like WoW but certain ideas they had watered down and ruined the loop that people found so fun about D2. Example he mentions "long grinding" in D2. Once you learned the game you could hit the 80s in a day or two of play time and for MOST BUILDS you didn't need to grind thousands of Baal runs to get to 99 getting to about 80-90ish gave you enough stats and skill points to finish that character build. The fact that CURRENT Diablo 4 team thinks they based Diablo 4 on Diablo 2 shows how little they know about Diablo 2. You can tell they only took a surface level look at that game. They think just putting + Skills and a Skill Tree that's nowhere near as deep as D2's and abysmal drop rate Uniques from the pinnacle bosses makes it like D2. I guarantee you most of the D4 team couldn't tell you how to build a character that could survive Hell mode or what made farming in D2 not feel repetitive and despite it being a grind keeping people coming back. In before the inevitable puddle deep intellect comments about "living in the past" and "nostalgia". People keep coming back to us in D2 Resurrected and even D2 Legacy (especially Path of Diablo and Project D2 mods) and they're leaving D4 for a reason... I dunno, most people who yap about Diablo 2 have never played a character past normal mode (which is arguably a fuckin tutorial) or Nightmare/Hell mode. The game really opens up when you learn how to mix stats and skills to figure out how to survive Hell mode and crack enemies Immune to certain damage types (there are LOTS of ways around Immune enemies and they all feel very crafty when you figure them out) and there's just way more depth in the gameplay not just arbitrary time extensions with cheap grind mechanics. It's a bummer modern Blizzard doesn't have any game designers that know how to make fun... I will say Season 4 is an improvement but it's like a band-aid on a severed limb. They need to cook to save that game...

[@SherrifOfNottingham]

I love hoe PoE said "we're gonna solve the currency upon currency issues by not having a currency" Proceeds to implement a load of crafting materials that are used as a currencies, having an avalanche of different currencies, and thus exchange rates, then introduces 'league' mechanics that have their own individual currencies resulting in PoE being the worst about having stacks of different currencies to confuse people with.