The Dismissive Avoidant Covert Narcissist, featuring Dr. Thais Gibson

[@rg7122]

In my experience, covert narcissists can fake having an empathetic experience for you but it’s just a mini love bomb to make you believe they have your best interests at heart but it’s always short lived. They go back to being who they are shortly after

[@judewuski]

Some covert narcissists can even sustain publicly displaying cognitive empathy (as opposed to affective & compassionate empathy) intermittently for years; but behind closed doors at home after the 1st few years can be another story. . . The contrast of empathy displayed when others are looking (public) vs behind-closed-doors is really telling… but the partner may downplay private withholding of empathy in hopes that what they’re observing isn’t the worst case scenario - a set up for potential danger, possible violence…

[@MrsIndy-nh1yd]

The misinterpretation of them caring for you. Comes from the energy you see them get from your positive reaction. It’s like a form of control before the abuse control begins. Setting the stage in reassurance, their game is good enough to illicit your emotions. In turn solidifying more of what they will take from you.

[@Juamo-tn8we]

Nailed it!

[@feelthepeace]

It's 'going the distance' for the purpose of getting you to 'buy whatever they're selling.' It's to obtain from you what it is they need from you - that particular form of 'supply' in the given instance. Once I understood these personality types (vulnerable narcissism) -and I saw 'it', I can't unsee it. There is a quality of disconnect in faking empathy ... they would have to be authentic for it to appear authentic! As I said, once I (studied, researched) saw it, I SEE it! Let there be peace on earth and let it begin with me. 🕊 🫶 💪 🪷

[@carolsherman9817]

Me too. Same experience!

[@diane5593]

Going through this now! They are so dismissive and avoidant that they seem crazy! They don't make sense!!

[@kamaliancirranoush1916]

She hit the nail on the head. My dad was a covert narc. He died last year, but 10 years prior the mask fell off and my stepmom and I were finally able to see him for who he really was. So many of his “friends”, many of whom are narcs themselves, pestered us for months about having a service or celebration of life to honor this “stand up guy” who they say was always so “humble and kind” and the “best friend a guy could ask for”…. It was such a spit in the face knowing he was able to muster some human decency for everyone else but us, the ones who actually cared for him in his times of need. We really considered having some sort of get together, but couldn’t bring ourselves to host an event in celebration of someone who seemed to relish in the degradation and dismissal of the only people he was supposed to care about, all while listening to his friends opine about his greatness 🤢. I finally told them to throw their own party 🤷‍♀️

[@catherineblair4182]

Sounds like we had the same dad 😂

[@LaPinturaBella]

Me too. My Dad is loved by his friends, most of whom have been in his life for 60 years or more. At home, he's unpredictable, can turn on a dime and a tyrant. Neither my brother or I have ever had a successful romantic relationship, let alone gotten married or had our own family. I'm 62. My brother is 58. This is how damaging these people are.

[@SandraDellavalle-y7c]

Yes!!! My ex desired for me to throw him a party all the time and got sorely disappointed if it didn't happen...He could care less when it was a milestone birthday for me or an event that was important to someone else. Finally, I pointed out to him "when is the party to honor me?" It went against my nature to think of myself in those terms but, hey, someone had to care about me! So glad to be out of that miserable relationship.

[@ChristianOne]

The story is a tragic one, but for some reason, your spicy choices really gave me a great chuckle. I think you made a very wise choice.

[@tina2667-jy8my]

They will go to their grave saving their image

[@Cod12Osc]

Emotional abuse is so dangerous, so dangerous.....

[@susannakotoff7095]

and toxic to be around

[@AYKAY88]

It should be criminal, like physical abuse.

[@bereal6590]

Having had physical emotional and psychological, I'd confirm the latter two are way more dangerous (unless the physical is life threatening). Psychological and emotional abuse last lifetimes and ruin lives.

[@SteelyBlue2013]

@@Cod12Osc It can be if untreated, from recently diving into the learning of myself, I have also learned what the long-term effects can and do have on your will to survive. I never considered myself to be a strong person; however, while moving through the pain toward 100% healing, I do now, and I am becoming more thankful for it. 😊✌️out.

[@Standingfirm777]

​@@bereal6590I agree! I was physically abused by a very angry father as a child, but my anti-husband's psychological and emotional abuse was far, far worse. 😢

[@briandrake6881]

Most narcs are dismissive/avoidant until THEY THINK YOU HAVE SOMETHING THAT COULD BENEFIT THEM. They are users/posers.

[@UnacceptableTee]

💯!!

[@lindabeeler6681]

Boy, did you say it!! Exactly.

[@irinaivanovic9792]

But then when they realize you’re drawing boundaries and insisting on being treated right like they did in the beginning, the mask falls off and they go right back to being dismissive avoidant to you.

[@DanielGennaro]

Using you for the self esteem boost. But will tell you that you ruin their self esteem

[@sharicoburn5475]

💯

[@evilstorm5954]

I had that taped conversation replayed back to me. She started the fight and egged me on just to catch my breaking point. I had tried to stop the conversation many times beforehand then she used her inside info on me. I’m not proud of my response, but I was pushed to the extreme. She used her narcissism to create and enlarge a conflict so she had fresh ammo against me to use later. Thinking about it makes me mad now, but I don’t want to rage, I’m just not happy. Narcissist do this to you as well.

[@Merbella]

I wish more clinicians spoke about emeshment causing narcissism or dismissive/fearful avoidants. It's not always neglect.

[@melliecrann-gaoth4789]

This is such an important point.

[@artisticgalacticgyal]

The guest doctor is spot on. I was married for years to a covert narc who is also a drug addict. After some time I started to find that despite his drug use, he was a covert narc. He fit the full example, when conflict came up, he turned into the meanest person, always seeking admiration, his pain was always worse than anyones pain. Very self driven. After our marriage, I started dating a dismissive avoidant. After some time, I started thinking he was possibly a covert narc because he shared some similarities to my ex husband. But the main difference was that my avoidant boyfriend would freely apologize, didnt have the air of needing admiration and he never changed into someone else behind closed doors. I appreciate these types of videos that help distinguish the difference between the types

[@PaigeSquared]

Thank you for sharing your experience with the two. I have dated multiple coverts (my mom's pattern), but the most recent had much more avoidant behaviors. I hadn't ever met a man who was not willing to talk if it meant improving sex. 😂 But there are some things that have stuck out. He insisted on never being wrong, and did not once over multiple years admit to human mistakes. He will get mean when I approach for repair, so none of the misunderstandings or concerns have ever been addressed (and he refused to ask questions so that included the ones he misread). I discussed my own behaviors towards him, trying to figure out what the hell he would prefer, and he didn't want to participate. He wanted to keep those secrets in his back pocket, I suppose. I have never met a covert narcissist that was so blatantly self sabotaging. The rejection of all and any "psychology BS" really put him in a difficult situation to escape from. It became absolutely crazy making, at the end.

[@natbaker2561]

oof i dated a dismissive avoidant that NEVER apologized. I was always apologizing to him (Im a Fearful Avoidant). Every argument I was left problem solving and apologizing whilst hed victimize himself to no end without any resolutions. Hed just stonewall and avoid till he felt like he had his way or could use me. Hed strike off to do whatever he wanted and expected me to just wait till he wanted my attention again.

[@robinsmith4499]

Two covert narcissistic individuals that married into our family created toxic chaos. My only boundary after fifteen years was to walk away. Our fun loving family is now broken. This video has explained the story but I am so sad!

[@rebeccacory7945]

Same here, Robin! Only my older sister became just like the narc she married & betrayed me in very major way. So my family got blown apart when I refused to have anything to do with my older sister after that. I have encouraged all of them to have whatever relationship they want to with her (which sadly will always be surface & transactional & based on filling HER needs with no regard for others’) and I simply don’t speak of her or participate in conversations about her. Done is done. And I don’t miss her at all!! 🎉🎉🎉❤

[@carolyn4423]

Yes, it is sad. I've gone no contact now for 2 years and got triggered yesterday when my loving brother shared all my siblings got together for one of my narc sister's bday. He said it was sad (I) couldn't be there too and her response was 'well, I don't know why she's mad at me?" She knows.

[@gwenhammett9349]

I'm a 64 year old gal and through this talk I finally get me. The dismissive avoidant. Thank you so much!!

[@valeriealexander4856]

I often worry that I see myself in these topics, but I know that I wouldn't be here working on and rejoicing in my freedom if I were trapped in narcissism. Thank you DR. C.

[@ro7547]

I was thinking the same thing about me. The person, whom I believed was a covert narcissist, was so much like me but yet, different. I’ve been really confused, but this explained it to a T.

[@hcmangs3634]

Yep, same. growing up with covert narc parents and extreme covert malignant narc brother…

[@RobSlopezJr]

That doesn't mean you are a narcissist. Everyone can have certain traits at time. It's just human nature. The thing about narcissists is they can't do any kind of self reflection, don't have empathy for others, and will do whatever they can to be the Victor over everyone and at any cost. Are you like that? If not, it may just be from some narcissistic abuse. I started thinking I was a narcissist, and maybe if not for the fact, I did not want to be anything like my narcissistic stepdad, maybe I would have. That and all I had as a child were my pets and wildlife "friends." Anyway, I'm not a specialist like Dr. Carter, but that's what I've gotten from these videos so far. Hopefully, I got the jist of it and if I am incorrect about anything, hopefully Dr. Carter can correct me.

[@RobSlopezJr]

Sorry, I commented before I got to this part. But yeah, that was what they were saying. LoL. Man, those new time stamps in the comments are awesome 11:40

[@natbaker2561]

I was surprised when she said Secure Attachment was 50%. I thought for sure it was around the 25% mark. Still do actually.

[@lynnschaeferle-zh4go]

After 40 years I couldn’t affect the dismissive/avoidant when I spent every day talking to him about relationships. I found out love does not fix anything; including lack of love in childhood

[@ChristianOne]

Wow. Thank you for passing that very hard-won-lesson on to me!! I received it!! I let go of a covert narc, but after listening to this convo, I wondered if I could have worked with an avoidant instead but you just made it REALLY clear to marry someone who you could live with forever as they are and then IF y'all CAN grow together, great, but never marry hoping to change or "adjust" anyone. Yikes, you may have just spared me from another form of toxic relationship! Thank you!! 🌷🌺🪷🪻🌸💮🌼🏵️👏👏👏

[@aveenhussein8059]

WOWWW I am so happy to see these two together, as an avid watcher of both channels for years. Love you both!

[@kathyjudson6754]

Me too!!!!

[@Nonfiction.Reader]

Agreed!!😊

[@KA-ux9qb]

Me too! At least 5 years!

[@fred.k9875]

Thank God for team healthy and knowledge and wisdom learning from one another and Dr Les Carter as our teacher.🙏

[@caroleminke6116]

😉

[@treysmythsandtunes]

Yes, Thank You, Dr. C, Dr. T. G & Team Healthy - the must _supportive_ community in a live chatroom - ever - love _in_ y'all! Thanks for Christ Gnosis. 😇❤‍🔥🙏

[@Standingfirm777]

Excellent podcast! I'm 63 yrs. Old married to a covert narc. I lived through all the mind twisting elements Dr. Gibson has described. I feel the best way to be around someone like this without divorcing, is one must emotionally detatch. It made a light and dark difference for me! Hooray!! He is just a roommate now and I am kind to him but that is the extent of a "relationship". I feel free again!! 😊

[@princesssweetpea9205]

Yes... BTDT..... You are correct. Unless it is to the point where it is abusive, at some point, to just live your life and 'DETACH' can be an option. That is what they are referring to as going 'Gray Rock'... These people need to believe that they are entitled to your attention, focus, emotional attachment, etc... You have to actually go totally Gray Rock and get to point where they NO LONGER HAVE THIS EFFECT/HOLD on you.

[@irinaivanovic9792]

Not everyone is able to emotionally detach though! That’s is extremely difficult to do when you’re deeply attached and already love them. My only way out was to break up and let time continue to do its job.

[@lilig6422]

I would like to see a talk on foster children, and the challenges they face as kids and as adults. Everyone seems to only focus on children from "traditional 2 parent" families.

[@snowbear1877]

I was in foster care. My foster parents did their best in their own way but I was still a second class citizen.

[@bereal6590]

It's rare to aee the only child dynamic covered as qell. I was an only child and from 2 -7 had three caregivers. In photos you can see I do not smile from a baby until 2. Then from around 4+ im smiling and starting to look more confident after 7 I become withdraw and shy and scared looking. I have zero memories of them being there! I later was told they were my greatest supporter. I think that's saved me from ending it, a small nugget at my core. The trauma of loosing them has rewritten my memories as if they weren't there in the first place and around that time I started having nightmares. I didn't know u til I was 55 that they lived with us for 5 years.

[@SirenaSpades]

And I thought I had an avoidant this whole time.. no. He's a covert narcissist. He shouted and berated me for an hour and 8 minutes straight about all my shortcomings, everything I did wrong (which wasn't really wrong), all my "perceived" shortcomings. Yikes.

[@patriciafry8634]

Very interesting guest. And so appreciate your comment, Dr. C, about her gentleness.

[@rubberbiscuit99]

This video is absolute gold for how it helps define the more subtle distinctions between attachment styles and narcissistic traits. The entitlement is so very significant, and selfishness in a person does not necessarily indicate narcissism. Even though our labels are not perfect and do not cover every aspect of a person, when we can be more flexible in how we apply them, it can help us understand ourselves and others. The examples and extended explanations are so very helpful. Thank you both so much!

[@nahomelion]

Omg I was the one who recommended Thais to be interviewed and you said duly noted!!!!! Wow thank you!!!!

[@watchmeheal1176]

She’s such a breath of fresh air!! The way she educates is so easily understood!! I can’t wait to hear more!!

[@aurorapurcell946]

She's wonderful!!! Her light just burst through the screen.. love this pure happy wanted and meant to help others energy that she gives out !!! Just love it !!!

[@aurorapurcell946]

THANK YOU!!! I had that feeling all along and I'm so blessed that God has given me understanding back than and more understanding now !!! I kept holding on to this : no matter what it's beeing done to me, by this person that I love and choose to share my life forever with, I have to do the right thing by me , which means respond with kindness and accept the unacceptable and focus fully on healing my trauma, blow after blow after blow... and it got to a point where I knew that that's the pure evil smiling back at me and talking pleasure in seeing how my soul is beeing tearing apart by their own intentional actions.. and I could not comprehend or deny what I saw with my own eyes... lol and that was just the beginning... fighting evil it's not possible... thank God for bring this fight to Him and taking over while I was patching my wounds... but now He brought me here and I am so greatfull for everything that I am blessed with... still how can I leave my best friend, my partner my husband behind in this hole of darkness??? Even if he's trying to pull me in and it's been so hard to stay out ... only God gave me the strength to not lose myself and my soul to the evil that I witness.. but if this is just the surface... how much deeper is his opinion that he lives with everyday and try to be normal.... 😢😢😢that's what pains me the most now...

[@Standingfirm777]

​@@aurorapurcell946 IF you stay with him (I've been married to one for 43 yrs.) You must emotionally detach from him or he will destroy the God given soul and spirit inside of you! Please read "why does he do that" by Lundy Bancroft. God placed that book in my hands many years ago to get me free from his emotional/mental abuse! When the light bulb went on, I was able to detach pretty easily. God bless you! Who the Son sets free is free indeed!! ❤

[@dianadanielle81]

I’ve always thought she was awesome at explaining things as well!! She has a whole online school that teaches so many different things!!!

[@joannemcclelland5271]

I’m a subscriber to her PDS. It has helped me significantly with my FA attachment, living with a DA partner and shadow work. It’s worth every single penny and gave me what three therapists over 30 years did not.

[@elainesmith5313]

Background aggrance, My way or the Highway. Entitled, No Compromise, These traits ring a very loud Bell with me. Description of the deceased Advoident Attachment Covert Narcissist who was most difficult to live with. But now deceased and good ridence! Thank you, explains ALOT!

[@GiantSlayer-rr1vu]

this was another awesome interview. I am in divorce proceedings with a covert religious narcissist. You really drove it home with the dismissive avoidant attachment style added to the covert narcissit. i stayed too long that the red flags were becoming green flags. the devil is a lie. It made me realize that I was also dealing with a sheep in wolf's clothing. Thank you so much.

[@ashton1952]

I was married to one of those and found it to be the clinger/stalker rather than dismissive avoidant. I asked for a divorce twice and he refused point blank. Wouldn't have suited his religious image. Escaped with a suitcase of clothes and my books, in his country and to this day have two marriage certificates saying different things, in his language. Got not one cent but it meant more to me to be free.

[@susannakotoff7095]

yes covert religious narcissist are wolves in sheeps clothing, the worst

[@beverlyanderson1775]

Thank you both so very much! I am a 73 year old widow and I have a 73 year old widower friend. My Therapist discussed attachment types with me. This discussion has helped me understand my friend as an avoidant personality, but definitely not a narcissist! This is so very helpful for me.

[@cassandrachavez6501]

After suffering through parental alienation for years, my middle son has reached out to me. We have been catching up alot this year but only on the phone. Minimal physical contact because we 2 hours from eachtother. However, I have seen some patterns of his behavior of hot and cold at times in conversation. And not knowing quite how to pinpoint it. I thought he might be Covert narcissistic but after watching this video he is definitely a dismissive avoidant. Because he as empathy and he does self reflect. But he is also sensitive to shame. His father and My oldest son and their father are grandiose narcissists. My 3 kids have all suffered immensely from their father's narcissism and are affectcted differently. I by watching this video have realized I have the anxious attachment style. Amongst other things such as ADHD and HSP that I have recently discovered this past year. It has been a long healing journey. Narcissism is NO JOKE! It has affected me all of my life. With this attachment style I attracted these types of people in friendships. My family too have not only a few of them but is a very TOXIC dynamic. I have been the scapegoat all of my life. And at 52 I'm finally done trying make them accept me. Boundaries and no contact has been lonely at times but peaceful at the same time. I am grieving my oldest son though as I have decided to just let him go.

[@Theantinarc]

I am disorganized and I always attract narcs and dismissive avoidants and I just don't ever see myself being happy or keeping a relationship. My heart has been broken so many times.

[@mday3821]

This is so helpful. I have a dismissive advoidant style and thought I was doomed. I so want connection:( It is good to know I can change it. Thank you Doctors.❤

[@amgod40]

Man I love my Dr C time, but this one was absolutely phenomenal. So many light bulbs going off I could have lit up a small city.

[@SurvivingNarcissism]

Love it!

[@aurorapurcell946]

Same here!!! Greatfull.. guidance by God to be here for my healing!!!

[@patrickconley2091]

It is helpful to understand the complexities of a dismissive avoidant person compared to a dismissive avoidant covert narcissist

[@DanielGennaro]

A dismissive avoidant person will say it’s having boundaries when they are being passive aggressive or not maintaining healthy communication cause they’re in a bad mood. If they’re not in the mood to deal with you at the moment, you become the problem.

[@callierobb1365]

Oh wow.. yes this makes so much sense to me. My mother tells me im "not aloud" to struggle because i never had it as bad as she did. Even though we had completely different struggles. Its like she believes the world has a limited amount of compassion points and i cant have any because she needs them all.

[@ginnywalker184]

Thank you to Dr. Gibson for what she shared. I have siblings who I believe are the dismissive avoidant-type of people and trying to have any indepth conversation doesn't happen because if they don't agree with something it's not going to be discussed. Sometimes I think it's just better to disconnect as much as possile which is what I had to do with my very narcissistic, mean, and degrading personality that was my mother. I learn so much and thank you for sharing.

[@debbievoss3496]

Ginny, my narcissistic mother had her mean intentions too. Really traumatic.

[@ginnywalker184]

@@debbievoss3496 Yes it is, and I'm so sorry you had to deal with that. I will never understand why some people make life so much more difficult than it needs to be. My mother left this world in early 2017 and I would not be surprised if she argued with her Maker on her journey. I have often wondered about that outcome, but it's not my problem, it is one of her own making. Thank you for your understanding. Please take care and I wish you well!

[@mandalovescatspandas1781]

I've known that I have a dismissive avoidant style since... before I was even a teenager? 😅 I sure do wish these types of videos were available when I was growing up. Back then it was like... this is how you are... now go into the world and deal with it... starting NOW. 😅😅 I came into this video to try to learn a little bit more about narcissism, but what a refreshing take on a trait (i have) that is less than desirable, but at the same time completely natural. What a wonderful bit of info that can help with my healing. Thank you. And I found Dr. Gibson quite lovely. 🥰 Thanks for having her on!

[@aurorapurcell946]

@@mandalovescatspandas1781 so well expressed in words. So did I came to learn about narcissistic nature and realized I'm a dismissive avoidant that has a covet narcissist as my husband for 12 years... well the light is on now and

[@Summer_Harvest]

What a great episode! Thank you Dr Carter and Dr Gibson. 🌹A great surprise!

[@sturobertson6791]

Hi Teresa. Agreed. I was working, checked my phone and saw it was coming up so I listened as I worked. Made my day better! I like how Dr C gently chimes in to add his take on what his guests say. Good to see you

[@Summer_Harvest]

@@sturobertson6791 Good to see you too. Hope your mom is doing alright.

[@sturobertson6791]

​@t_nels I appreciate you saying that Teresa. Thanks. My mum's altzeimers is slowly tightening it's grip. She calls me most days (which is great that she can) saying she's made me a coffee, but she can't find me.(I live 200 miles away) I spend as much time there as I can (advantage of being self employed). Take care. Grow and glow🫂

[@nickim270]

I was a scapegoat in a family of covert narcs and golden child dynamics. I hoped to make good friends and have a loving partner but the more I interacted with people, the more I realized that finding a good, secure, safe person is rare. Most people have huge insecurities, agendas, and dysfunction, which they would project on you and bring you down further. It has been a hard realization.

[@lauracde4414]

This was an exceptional one! Please bring her back again!

[@craigkeller]

I was raised in a secure attachment style. The problem was that I supposed everyone else was raised the same. Took me along time to realize I was mistaken. Thank you both!

[@princesssweetpea9205]

YES!!!! This is something that needs to be taught to our younger people. They need to understand this. They need to see the red flags. They are so easily taken in by the false deception that a pathological person can portray.

[@bethshultis7736]

Wow… this gal has huge understanding of relationships. VERY interesting to listen to this.

[@Summer_Harvest]

It would be wonderful if you two could talk about how healthy extended family/friends/neighbors and teachers play a role in how we form attachment.

[@aaronkwolfe]

Sign me up for that one, too.

[@aurorapurcell946]

Actually the ones from outside my family like teachers. Friends ,strangers, were the ones that actually helped me to balance my neglect and issues

[@alethea6781]

I think attachment style is like addiction. I’m a fearful avoidant who had two narcissistic parents. I have securely attached relationships with my friends and adult children. I’m a recovering fearful avoidant after years of therapy. Just like addiction, it’s so deep and fundamental that I’m always recovering, never completely secure.

[@DaturaDreamer]

I really appreciate this video because I am moving out of a potential relationship with a guy and realizing he has the avoidant attachment style. As someone who has experience with many narcissists, I was left confused as to whether he was a narc or something else was going on. This video helps me see the differences between the two, and I think he is just very avoidant. Thanks!

[@JETTSTACHI]

Trauma response happening through this entire talk. I'm sweating and my heart is racing just thinking about what I've lived through. He's recently gone, but I'm still healing. I hope.

[@drcorastack9861]

Dr Carter is a brilliant educator on this horrific pathology covert narcissism and covert malignant narcissism. It is a most troubling increasing phenomenon everywhere in the western world that few people are speaking up about knowledgably.

[@judithmurray6458]

Wonderful and clear. I seem to be a dismissive avoidant type ans I have finally walked away from a dismissive avoidant covert narcissist. I wish I had known about this 40 years ago. I could have perhaps avoided so much emotional trauma and self-blame. At least I got it now thanks to you earth angels and I was able to just walk away from the last relationship. Thankyou so much.

[@RayvenNightsong]

I watch your videos a lot. They have helped me heal from a terribly abusive relationship. Actually, from a lifetime of abuse, but the recent abuse really broke me. I am very grateful for your videos. I'd also like to add that I love the intro music. It makes me happy.

[@SurvivingNarcissism]

Thanks Rayven. You're why I do these videos!!

[@KathieMihindukulasuriya]

Really appreciated this. It answers some questions for me as I have known people with dismissive avoidant patterns who do shut down - which can look like the silent treatment, but I didn't feel the control or cruelty behind it, more a sense of overwhelm. It made me worried that I was just refusing to acknowledge the truth.

[@funkymonk542]

It’s like trying to love a robot , the robot is observing your human qualities its downloading your love but there is a glitch , it was never programmed to recognize and receive love , the most confusing and painful relationship I’ve ever experienced, and when it’s over it just jumps right into another relationship like it’s washing its hands , I was deleting from its memories, trashed as it reboots into another relationship

[@court1288A-gk4tz]

Amazing. Thank you. Trauma is absolutely contagious. Going through the divorce from hell from a malignant narcissist attorney I'm just trying to save my kids. I have to try.

[@perfumepixie2237]

My mum will slam the phone down, run off, say im not having this conversation, blame me, blame situations, shame me, lie , everything but talk properly or say sorry. If its a sorry its an annoyed sorry. Or sometimes 1 sorry because shes caused so much trouble she slips it in. But 99% of the time its run, lie, blame, etc....

[@notthatvashti8127]

Dr Gibson is so good at what she does. I am a fan and subscriber of her channel. She does an excellent job at deciphering the ins and outs of attachment theory. There seems to be a thin line between narcissism and a dismissive avoidant. It can be somewhat confusing and confounding. The dismissive avoidant relationship takes a lot of patience and even with that it can be a hard row to hoe.

[@bomackin]

Beautiful that you are discussing both narcissism and attachment styles! Thank you both!

[@judewuski]

8:46 Dismissive avoidant . 9:51 Fearful avoidant / disorganized attachment

[@elizabethgeran3679]

Thank u for talking about these subjects together..... There needs to be more discussions about covert narcissist.... As someone who was married to one for 18 yrs.... And was asleep during 17 yrs of it..... Everyone needs more info about this. I think it would be helpful to let the survivors of covert narcissist abuse talk..... Interview them so that the general population can hear what happens in these types of relationships. Thank u for all ur work!!!

[@BaraSchmidt]

Thank you Dr C and Dr G!! Can't wait for the next installment of this dynamic duo!!! Exceptional presentation! Powerful! Thanks again, Stay Healthy!!😊

[@sturobertson6791]

Hi Bara. You too! Stay healthy!

[@katherineford3214]

Such a brilliant guest! Thank you both. I look forward to the next session together.

[@LucyBarley]

I have no idea why KZbin recommended this video to me but it could not be more applicable to my life and situation right now. As I’m ending a relationship and trying to understand my own dismissive avoidant attachment style I realize I’m leaving a covert narcissist. I feel so seen, heard, validated and appreciate this insight. I’m going to subscribe to both of your channels to learn more about myself and how to grow from here. Thank you so much.

[@SurvivingNarcissism]

Glad you found us! Stick around.

[@richardjslade]

Great episode. Dr Gibson has an exceptional ability to translate knowledge and communicate it.

[@caroleminke6116]

Truly 2 beautiful people 💙

[@elmaswanepoel1598]

Finally I have a "diagnosis" of what always seemed to be a combination of a Narcissist and Co-dependant.

[@aleciakenney1817]

I really enjoyed listening to this podcast! Lots of helpful information and insight. Please invite Dr. Gibson back to talk again and thank you Dr. Carson for your encouraging, enlightening counseling videos!

[@rwdchannel2901]

In a narcissistic family system with multiple children, the parent-child relationship is based on how the narcissistic parents choose to divide things. The golden child will get the loving, sensitive relationship from the narcissistic parent, but the black sheep child will get the hateful, insensitive relationship from the narcissistic parent. That's what's so irritating about the relationship patterns in the narcissistic family to the black sheep child because the black sheep child just wants a loving, sensitive relationship with the parents, but the parents aren't having any of that and will make sure the black sheep child knows its place. The black sheep child can't do anything right, is always invalidated. The golden child can't do anything wrong and is always validated. It's infuriating for the black sheep child who sees clearly what's going on in the narcissistic family dynamic and that's why a lot of black sheep child go no contact once they realize the abuse cycle that's been happening for decades. The black sheep will get raged at by the narcissistic parent for not sharing the same attachment style to the golden child(acting like the golden child can never do anything wrong) and not sharing the same attachment style to their self as the narcissistic parent(acting like they can't do anything right). Some narcissistic parents are actually sick enough to mock the black sheep child about the family dynamic they've created(Sort of like a psychopath mocking a torture victim). An example of this is when my older sister ran the nice car my parents gave her into a tree and totaled it while DUI. My parents covered it up and treated her like she could never do anything wrong. I never did anything that crazy, but my parents act like even the good things I've accomplished in life(being a veteran and graduating college, getting a nice car, paying my own rent, working) weren't enough to merit their respect. Later on my narcissistic mother mentioned how I didn't do anything bad like my sister did, but still pretends my behavior has been worse than the golden child through her treatment of me. Once the black sheep is gone from that narcissistic family dynamic, the golden child and family relatives will try to hoover the black sheep back in because it changes that family dynamic. The narcissist parents start abusing the golden child a little or someone else and they don't like it, so they start pretending they all want a sensitive, loving relationship with the black sheep to bait the black sheep back into the narcissistic family dynamic. If the black sheep falls for the bait, it doesn't take long for the hateful, insensitive relationship to start again. The best thing the black sheep can do is burn all bridges back to the narcissists.

[@TraceyArmstrong-g3j]

My husband was the black sheep of the family and I think that’s why he’s a covert narcissist it’s a living hell sometimes 😢

[@aurorapurcell946]

It's there any way that you can send me your comment? I need to share this comment with my husband's son ... he needs to understand so much more and I truly believe that your comment would be the leading hook to drive him to healing and learning... if possible, thank you so much ❤❤

[@rwdchannel2901]

@@aurorapurcell946 You can copy and paste the comment onto a computer notepad or take a snip shot of it and email the photo to your husband's son.

[@TraceyArmstrong-g3j]

@@aurorapurcell946 I didn’t even know what narcissistic was until my friend told me to read up on it about 3 years ago it was like I was reading about my own life put into words then I turned to KZbin and found drC it’s given me lots of insight 💕hope you get sorted 🩷

[@aurorapurcell946]

@@rwdchannel2901 it cannot be copied but I'll take a screen shot with your permission. Thanks again for your help!!!

[@robbwhitewater]

Thank you so much for distinguishing the nuances of my dismissive/ avoidant personality with that of covert narcissism. Along with being INFP I have struggled much of my life with maintaining agency in my relationships both intimate and social; but have never lacked empathy or compassion for others!

[@lorifay7806]

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Please do another video together. This conversation was so helpful!

[@ReginaelizabethFrancis]

I'm a dismissive avoidant raised by a covert narcissist dismissive avoidant father. I am 24 years old and I am not sure if life will ever get better. I hope everyone who can relate to this video finds inner peace.

[@BrandonRX330]

You can get better. Take it one day at a time. Wishing you peace and happiness ❤️

[@aw5137-q8q]

It gives hope when you witness, the passing on and sharing of ideas with the next generation. To make it available to everyone is a very appreciated gift!

[@shawnrisley2404]

Wow. This discussion clarifies the impasse I've had with a woman at church. She's very bright analytically in administrative tasks, subtly sets herself on a pedestal, chooses individuals to accompany her on community activities, but communicates in a way as if all are competing for favor with her, seems to question the veracity of the knowledge of these people. She needs to feel superior. I tried to clear the air with her about a negative interaction, and she said, "I don't do vulnerable." The sad part of this, she is in charge of "Widening the Circle", a program promoting openness of our very white-centered church to become more multicultural. She can fill out protocols and meeting agendas, but the creative spark, the spirit of inclusivity and acceptance, the warmth that can allow people to dissolve old ways, just isn't there. Thank you for this video: at least I can understand why she's in protection mode.

[@dianaschramer5065]

WONDERFUL conversation! Thank you both so much!

[@electricLuLuland]

..Dr. C, how are you not at a MILLION subscribers.?!❤

[@SurvivingNarcissism]

I'm not complaining.

[@AuntPeggy1019]

Question: when one sibling is a narcissist, is it likely that the others are, as well?

[@aaronkwolfe]

Ack! I got no warning of this, and I even looked this morning, just in case. I even have a spare joke to post. Oh, well. Watching now.

[@LiveforHim73]

I will listen to this over and over! Wish this whole conversation could be put in paper form to study. I would buy this! Thank you!

[@SurvivingNarcissism]

Wow, thank you!

[@SlobArt]

@@SurvivingNarcissismI’m a transcriber if needed Dr. C!

[@estherslagter302]

Yes a comparison sheet would be 😍

[@sarahgilmore9990]

Very grateful to have seen this. Clarifies some confusion where in my relationship we have similar responses based on attachment style but a clear division with the covert narcissism. He says I do the sameas him, such as go into silence, which is not a wrong observation on his part. But now I see I "shut down" to get space, reflect and protect self where his same action is a power play for control and can be quite mean about it. I feel badly about the avoidance and don't have the meanness. It's not to have control over him but rather retreating for space to understand the chaos. Appears the same yet is quite different.

[@lisam5395]

I can’t say how much she has changed my life over the last several years! Forever great full!!!!

[@SurvivingNarcissism]

Thanks, she was truly a delight!!

[@liliaaaaaaaa]

I've been following both of you for a while, & you have both hit the nail on the head with this one.. ✌️

[@Nyumc99]

These two top docs work really well together don’t they? A great collaboration. Thanks to you both for clarifying the differences . 👌x

[@SurvivingNarcissism]

Our pleasure!

[@jennetteoverzet2959]

I mADE THIS HAPPEN!! Thanks for helping this become reality

[@barbo1106]

Dr. Carter, thank you for having Dr. Gibson here. These videos are so comforting just to know I’m not alone in these relationship conundrums. The insights give me food for thought and help me to forgive in my heart, heal myself and pray that the other person finds healing.

[@jackiefry1467]

It makes me so happy to see two of my faves in one video! Thank you to you both for all the amazing work that you do- you are blessings. This is such an important conversation. Thais taught me in her videos how to tell the difference by setting the boundary and unfortunately it was then apparent that I was dealing with a covert narcissist but I fortunately didn't waste any more time than I already had on the person. It's not nice to say but it's a fact that the trash takes itself out. 🙏🙏🙏 Both of you have been a huge part of my healing journey.

[@Petro-wp8xt]

Thank you Doctors for posting this chat onto KZbin, please know that you are appreciated👍👍

[@SurvivingNarcissism]

You are quite welcome.

[@dimitrabouzalas3090]

Oh goodness! Just when I thought I’ve got a fairly detailed understanding of covert narcissism, I discover another layer! Thank you so much for this video! It used to do my head in - I understood why my spouse was avoidant- but it’s that subtlety of entitlement that makes all the difference. How very insightful, and a huge contribution to people out here such as myself.

[@danloan1]

Love this topic. Somewhere at the intersections between attachment styles and narcissism are the keys to understanding both ... Lots to digest here. Yes, more, please. Your headline struck a nerve with me... became an immediate 'must watch'.

[@bereal6590]

Loving someone who is a covert narcissist is painful. They are only happy in my experience when they've moulded you into being identical to them. They will never work through their own stuff, they'll hide from it and project it onto their supply. The red flag for me is the lack of listening and patience, instead it's you should, you ought, you think wrong, your feelings are wrong just to shut you up alongside the cognitive empathy which feels wierd and the looks of pity they give when you're finally eviscerated and crushed as they sweep in to rescue you from yourself!

[@Standingfirm777]

My covert anti-husband made me feel like I was in a straight jacket and how dare I to have any feelings at all!! 😢

[@Guddilove801]

@@bereal6590 this !! Everything you said is what I am going thru . It's taken me so long to finally get the patterns and words being spoken and the control and how I am always wrong and blamed for any conflict that arises. I do t know what to do. The couple therapist has no idea as my husband explains away things so intelligenly with lies and all .. I m reduced to smithereens by the end of it and don't want to be in the same room listening as the whole conversation goes into how he gets hurt . The sorry never gets said as he spins another twist to the conversation and on and on .😢

[@tannersmith6489]

Two of my favs and this is exactly the information I've been searching for. I'll be danged turns out I was dealing with a full blown covert narcissist 😆 I moved out of state for her and was discarded within a month, and she's on to the next already. Back home and healing, and this knowledge is helping me take it less personally. Thank you both!

[@bigdken89]

Great discussion. Now I know definitively that she is both DA with covert narcissism.

[@milesmatulionis]

Great conversation with two amazing people ❤

[@TruthandJustice-hz9nv]

This was absolutely tremendous, Thank you both for this, Some gems in here, insights, Peace, love and respect to you both and everyone, Thank you universe, All glory praise and smiles to the most high :-)

[@kathyjudson6754]

Yes please ,,,, more with Thais , she is amazing ! Love to learn for her

[@rebeccacory7945]

Married to a disorganized avoidant … it’s been a real trip!!! But learning about his attachment style has helped me tremendously!! I know it’s not his fault (it IS his responsibility, tho!) and that helps me not see him doing these things deliberately to hurt me. And I can learn new ways of relating to him and try to give him as an adult the safety he never had a kid. He was GENUINELY traumatized, not kinda traumatized. So I find this info very helpful because I know he has a good heart, I just have never understood why it’s SO CLOSED!!! 🥰🙏❤️

[@painteroflove]

Informative ! I liked how Dr. C guided / moved-along Dr. T with his questions. 👍

[@kimberlyvergez4391]

I think one of the key distinctions is that the narcissist will react to a challenge to their perfection with rage. The dismissive avoidant will be reluctant to engage, but the covert narcissist will suddenly and disproportionately engage with more emotion than you'll have seen from them about anything else. Perceived criticism or anything that paints them in a negative light produces an almost allergic violent reaction

[@melliecrann-gaoth4789]

They also hold silent grudges and get you back another time- like destroy an event several months later. The initial event was small and just needed some simple adult sorting.

[@susandumaresq6564]

Thank you!!

[@SurvivingNarcissism]

You're welcome!

[@Kelley369]

Absolutely love Thais! Her and her program helped me so much post betrayal trauma/when the mask fell off.

[@katm2975]

Super helpful conversation - thank you both for talking about this.

[@laurielawson8711]

Fantastic. So elucidating. Thank you, Doctors!!!

[@melianelson9036]

I love the way she describes things spot on! Would love to check out the book.

[@SurvivingNarcissism]

You should!

[@joannemcclelland5271]

Her personal development school online is outstanding. $67 a month, much more cost effective than a therapist. Plus, she has webinars almost daily that you can join. I encourage anyone to do it.

[@SumayahBahia]

the covert that is trying to be better but not changing from the inside out is trippy

[@abigailpeterson0630]

What about CPTSD in relation to dismissive avoidance, shutting down, etc? I’ve found significant crossover with attachment style and coping skills.

[@judithtuckwell2104]

Love the clarity you bring to what sounds like a tangled subject. Your careful, gentle language: i so appreciate your skills,, insights Thank you both

[@rfoley402]

Great interview. More please!

[@aurorapurcell946]

I might, most likely, be a dismissive avoidant in a marriage with a covert narcissist for over 12 years. And finally it makes some sense!!!

[@masquarra]

Thank you for this wonderful podcast. Blessings