The End of the Smash Killer Era

[@pylonade2785]

A “smash killer” is purely theoretical because I haven’t seen a game come even close to becoming one

[@TheMitchellSpecial]

nasb2 is really good, but imo melee is its own thing at this point. but nasb2 over smash ult any day of the week

[@judithforever9494]

@@TheMitchellSpecialnasb 2 is dead so it doesn’t matter

[@hiiambarney4489]

There is no way to make a "killer" because the conglomeration Nintendo has behind the Smash series is a result of decades with billions of dollars investment. The only one who could come close to it is maybe Microsoft in the future, and even then, they have to make a GOOD "smash" game... The closest game being a "smash killer" was technically Brawl. (Even though I loved that game and it's single player campaign, it was god tier to me in that regard)

[@Lardo137]

​@@TheMitchellSpecialSame here. NASB2 feels near-perfect with its design and slime meter, and the balance is solid, especially with their heavyweight designs. I just wish the game had more polish, but triple A studios have a leg up on other developers on that front, sadly.

[@MaskedEmperor18]

brawlhalla is close one tbh considering the competitve scene is better than smash

[@thedapperdolphin1590]

I think the biggest issue with these platform fighters is definitely the lack of casual appeal. Most don’t even have items, or just have them tacked on, even though the vast majority of Smash players love playing with items. The competitive segment of Smash fans is such a tiny fraction of the player base. Most people didn’t get into it because they wanted a competitive game. They are little kids who like the characters or people who want something to screw around with at a gathering with friends. Some of those people will go on to become competitive, but you’re never going to grow a competitive community if you don’t first have a casual one for people to grow in.

[@ItsJustRj1]

These other game's weren't looking to directly copy smash but shed light on areas that smash didnt capitalize on. What characters in smash can throw both equip able weapons and has a seperate fighting style without them?

[@Brabdo]

The existence and popularity of competitive Melee proves this to be un-true.

[@Billymaysx]

I agree. Plus competitive players have proven time and time and time again that they will play your game regardless of competitive mechanics if it is popular enough. See Ultimate.

[@soccerthepkmnmaster]

@@Brabdo Melee community is relatively small compared to the wider Smash and Nintendo community.

[@Brabdo]

@@soccerthepkmnmaster But large enough to support a huge esports scene and presumably a small development team

[@trentmurray7680]

Rivals 2 looks sick, Combo Devils looks sick, we're about to see big moves from the plat fighter space

[@hesho24]

Sentinels inc is looking amazing too. There’s never been a better time to be a platform fighter fan

[@mikeylarsen5627]

rivals 2 does look sick, im just hoping it doesnt move too close to smash and become a sluggish boring fighting game

[@CrocodileWhispers]

Sleeping on nick all star brawl 2 zzzz

[@hesho24]

@@CrocodileWhispers dead in six months like the first game I’m calling it now

[@CrocodileWhispers]

@@hesho24 no, no this one? This one the REAL smash killer

[@Shiftarus]

I don't think Smash was ever really meant to be a serious competitive game. People are just amazing at breaking games

[@samkeiser9776]

After a certain point, Sakurai/Smash devs definitely became aware of the people playing the game competitively, I’d say starting with Smash 4 it was probably at least a consideration. What with balance patches and what not.

[@StevenJones851]

I just play it for fun

[@SirNarax]

It was never meant to be a competitive game. It was designed as a fighting game anyone can play and have fun with. There has been considerations for more serious play be that Battlefield or a rebellious anti-thesis that is Brawl but that acceptance that people play it like that is a purely modern thought process and it is still not a universally accepted reality.

[@chillbizz74]

Nintendo could've embraced that idea but they decide to hurt their own fans

[@StevenJones851]

@@chillbizz74 unfortunately they did

[@TheToonWorkshop]

Brawlhalla was genuinely a fun game, I still play it, as well as smash.

[@youcantbeatD]

I'm happy to see all this talk from multiple devs, including Brawlhalla, since so many people think less of it with how different it is

[@dankl3ss194]

Obviously no one takes "competitive" casual smash with items and no fking characters seriously.

[@youcantbeatD]

@@dankl3ss194 What??? i'm not talking about smash at all here

[@youcantbeatD]

@@dankl3ss194 oh you're talking about brawlhalla. okay well 1.Brawlhalla has 51 characters with unique weapon combinations, unique special attacks, and mostly unique stats that fundamentally change the way you play with and against most of them. 2.Brawlhalla isn't made to just be taken casually or competitively they cater to both sides, such as with their absurd amount of extra gimmick game modes, as well as updates focusing balances, reworks, and map pool adjusts based on community feedback. and if the gadgets are something you're worried about, I'd say they're completely fair considering you have to throw your weapon to pick one up, but that doesn't matter since in tournament, they're always turned off. I'm not expecting everyone to like the game obviously, it feels different than any of the other melee/project M/Ultimate vibes modern platform fighters are going for. but I would like a bit more respect for what it's got going on, especially since it started as an indie game. it's impressive for a game like that to make it where it has.

[@dankl3ss194]

@@youcantbeatD bruh 🤓

[@youcantbeatD]

@@dankl3ss194 what?

[@casbalt7763]

I want a story mode as fun as subspace emissary. It was like a massive platformer with all the characters and coop.

[@GiggaGMikeE]

Ive been a diehard Smash fan since the 64. That said, im genuinely excited for Rivals 2.

[@metawarp7446]

being a smash fan shouldn't detract from your excitement for roa2, it should add to it (!) brand loyalty in gaming makes no sense :/

[@WickedlyChill]

Damn since 1964. Respect

[@graysonwells21]

I’m just waiting for Eliana my goat to return

[@isaacfunguy7816]

It's really great to hear all the devs are so forward thinking, 2024 will be huge

[@Ruckus790]

Probably going to be a big gap before the next smash game. Now's a great time for another platform fighter to break into the mainstream or at least take over the competitive scene.

[@Yoshizuyuner]

It won’t have Mario in it tho

[@bronxishomenomatterwhereig3149]

People Still playing Melee hard over 20 years later lol. Nah it's either produce something better than Smash or go home.

[@gr8gmr]

@@Yoshizuyuner So what? It doesn't need Mario in it.

[@SirNarax]

It never will unless it can also capture a large casual audience. People get into a game casually and then they start taking it seriously. Focusing hard in the competitive niche will get people in the niche to talk a lot about it but they won't see a break into the mainstream. They will stay niche and temporal. In other words: Someone needs to do what Nintendo does well, focus on the casual party aspect while also focusing on doing what Nintendo intentionally neglects. One or the other will not work.

[@Jsslade]

@@Yoshizuyuner They could put in a character that plays as close to him as possible and you could pretend it's Mario

[@NeutralOfficial]

I need to finish this later but this video impresses me on many levels I'm always iffy when esports centric youtube channels do platfighter related content after the disaster(s) that was akshon esports multiple videos on the genre, and this video from the gate not only respects it but also actually talks to devs of games in the genre I will say I'm not the biggest fan of the title and thumbnail but the content has so far impressed me

[@8bitdiedie]

What did akshon do wrong? I never watched the videos so I don’t know.

[@NeutralOfficial]

@@8bitdiedie they kept making knee-jerk videos about platfighters filled with hyperbolic language and kept getting burned, calling basically any new major release the next big thing. All coming to a head with the video they released around the same time as NASB 2s release called "why smash is king", which took interview footage from around when fraymakers was hot and sorta just shit on the entire genre. Repeating the same common monotonous points that smashers repeat over and over about any game that isn't smash. Now the only platfighter they make content about is melee, which is unfortunate because there vid abt rushrev is p good

[@cooperbegnoche5117]

dude rivals is so fire man I love that game

[@elemangell2981]

Fantastic video and comments from all the devs involved. I've been a fan of the genre since Brawl, and while I love Smash for what it is, I'm so glad people are taking its core gameplay and spinning it in fresh new directions. Be it by focusing on the competitive niche Nintendo neglects, experimenting with the core mechanics to attract new players, or creating new kinds of casual content like the addition of rogue-like mechanics, each of these games bring something interesting to this genre I love and I couldn't be happier. I also wanna shoutout games like Wavedash and Spiritfall, showing that the core mechanics of PlatFighters don't have to be tied to a single type of game, allowing for even more experimentation and ideas that wouldn't be possible otherwise!

[@isaacldi2643]

The smash community would gain so much from playing other platform fighters and it would definitely create that same cohesion that the fgc has

[@shivernaut8607]

not watching the video but I just came to say that calling other platform fighters "smash killers" seems like an inaccurate and somewhat dishonest way to represent them. I've never been under the impression that any of them intended or even wanted to "kill smash". I also have tremendous respect for rivals of aether and with rivals 2 set to release calling games like it part of an era that's over is also inaccurate. Basically I just came here to criticize the title lol.

[@shivernaut8607]

@@esportsillustrated then I'm a silly goose!

[@KnTElixar]

Fantastic piece with a really cool voice over, hope to see more of this for sure

[@finklemeire603]

One of the biggest issues with player retention some of the newer platform fighters go through is they try VERY hard to get the Melee audience involved with mechanics that are basically straight from Melee. The issue is Melee players generally speaking love their game more than life itself and will compliment your game for trging to be like Melee but never replace Melee for your game because once again to them its the perfect untouchable game. They try to appeal to this niche but dedicated fandom that will never choose them over Melee and are left with no one left when the initial hype dies.

[@SionReaver]

Really, the Platform Fighter scene is having the issues of very early FGC, but worse. Because back then, you had tons, and tons of games, most bad but some stuck and plus there was the Arcades which were trial by fire. Here the Platform Fighter scene is way behind traditional fighters but it Seems that may be changing in a few years. We'll see. More good game styles is healthy for a genre.

[@kitestar]

The phrase “[X] is gunna topple [Y]” is quite tired tbh, it ages the game that’s allegedly doing the toppling instantly when it fails

[@Creepo_J]

I grew up with smash brawl The smash bros is really burned into ma soul While smash will forever remain uncontested it's awesome to have all these platform fighters building off the inspiration becoming their own things, in any way shape or form Enjoy videogames Let em cook with rivals 2

[@idontknowwhattonamemyselfonyt]

brawlhalla is different and still somewhat has players

[@cosmic5665]

It has more players than any fighting game, but smash is still more known

[@Arrayonex]

Love smash bros and I have recently got myself Rivals of Aether. I love the platform fighter genre.

[@ninjahedgehog5]

IMHO "smash killer" became a joke because of hungrybox. He was calling every platform fighter getting announced a smash killer

[@Creepo_J]

Every single thumbnail said smash killer

[@p0kepanda462]

Great video! I love seeing more videos highlighting such an awesome genre.

[@musiqlindquist101]

Absolutely amazing stuff. Loved every time I got to see a tiny rectangle with Bio in the bottom right during the interviews

[@thejedisonic67]

Kung Fu Panda 3 tie in game is the truest Smash Killer

[@CynthGD]

Brawlhalla has kung fu panda

[@churle1]

Rivals 2 == smash Killer

[@JimmyFantage]

I don't think any of these games were supposed to be Smash killers? Who the hell comes up with these terms? They just shared similar gimmicks in the 2D platform fighting genre.

[@nohrianscum9791]

The _______ Killer has been around for a long time in many gaming genres, just look at how many games attempted to be Halo killers back in the 6th and 7th generation of consoles.

[@bing0bongo]

*cries in Slap City*

[@Freke-wz7bj]

Brawlhalla is rising now

[@dirty56ace]

Awesome video! I really enjoyed every part of the video. Great job! Platform fighters are some of my favorite games to play.✌️

[@Abrix123]

Brawlhalla lit

[@kylespevak6781]

What would also help is any big dev not abandoning their game after a year

[@Billymaysx]

Not every game has to be a live service game mate.

[@kylespevak6781]

@@Billymaysx I agree, but devs are making most games live service cash grabs then abandon in a year when people realize. Then the next one comes out and repeat. Most single player games are just skins of the same gameplay

[@ItsJustRj1]

Brawlhalla has the most thriving community out of all of these other options tbh, you should've looked at flash party if you want a smash killer or clone type.

[@danielplacencia9633]

Just let the Games coexist for Pete's Sake,we need variety after all

[@theclaudfather6436]

“I did the Fierce Deity’s Sword” Shows the Great Fairy’s Sword instead…

[@corshmell]

Yeah I misspoke haha whoops

[@BooomTomb]

Smash Bros Won’t Die Like Street Fighter, But It Will Have Its Competition

[@davidvkimball]

Nice coverage, great interviews!

[@StaleOreoGd]

Brawlhalla💪💪💪

[@ImmaLittlePip]

Any time I see a game get called "x killer" I just assumed it's gonna die in a week or year at this point Overwatch was called the TF2 killer and it's pretty much dead

[@ChaosPhoenix11]

I’ve been in the competitive scene for Smash (mainly melee, but I actually started on PM!) for just over 10 years now, and I think the more the merrier as long as they focus on making it fun and technical enough to hit you in the dopamine when you execute well. I played a bit of Rivals when it first came out, but never quite got the hang of it. I put in about 150-200 hours in Brawlhalla when I picked it up back in 2022, and really enjoyed it. I’ve put it down in favor of Melee of course, but any fighter that can pull me out of my main game and get me thinking in their system and feeling like a badass when I get it right, I will play. Anyway, melee for life but I’m also 1000% looking forward to Rivals 2

[@jaronmatos]

RIP Project M. Great times 🥲

[@DAWGIESZ64]

I clicked cuz I saw rivals of aether in the thumbnail

[@joeadams9744]

I feel like indie devs are starting to become the main source of quality in games these past few years. Not only in plat fighters, but also just about everything else. The big difference is that I feel plat fighter indie devs are starting to have all the right pieces click together and are about to make something amazing. Here’s to hoping that’s true in 2024.

[@BriefHorrors]

I have no sympathy for the competitive scene when they get shut down by Nintendo, you have these developers trying to cater to them but I've seen first hand how overly critical or hard headed they are about trying anything new.

[@kylespevak6781]

I find "Smash-clone" so annoying. Same as "Doom-clone" it just shows you're closed minded

[@Tselel]

I never got to compete in Rivals 1, even though I played the absolute mess out of it. But I'm looking forward to Rivals 2 and potentially getting back into competitive spaces with it. Participating in Smash competition doesn't inspire me the way it used to, but Rivals especially scratches my exact itch for gameplay.

[@RainSpitter]

Smash is never going away in the sense that it has cemented its legacy. Even if Nintendo were to stop making it the ground break that smash did for the genre is unlike anything else. There were 5 iterations of smash before any serious competitor rose up to the task, and even now we lack any sort of real competitor to smash.

[@pool_rtg]

great video, love plat fighters:)))

[@kasuheartsrivals]

Loved this vid, fantastic work

[@luiegiii]

I said this in a comment to the Rivals 2 development update and I’ll say it again here: If a game doesn’t focus on creating a long-term engagement plan for the youth, the game will not make big profits. Focusing on the competitive scene automatically pegs you into a niche. It’s a great idea to support your competitive team but if you really want your game to grow you have to be willing to partner with other companies to bring their characters to life and offer a more casual experience for those who don’t play online or don’t play competitively. This is why Smash Bros is such a success. They have bankable characters and easy to learn gameplay that feels good right away. For many, Smash Ultimate probably sits on the shelf collecting dust nowadays but that’s ok because it was purchased and enjoyed. That’s the hallmark of a long-lasting brand (though I personally still play regularly). I think Rivals has the most potential to take off with the sequel, I just hope they fulfill their promises to have an engaging single-player and plenty of DLC going into the future. 🙏

[@felipoto]

wow very good research, actually knowledgeable about the topic

[@RarEndangeredCrabSpy]

Rushdown Revolt not mentioned 💯💯

[@jasomega2446]

8:44 Well said

[@jasomega2446]

11:15

[@jackcampbell2021]

I really hope rivals 2 at least maintains the same amount of players as ssbu, I love nasb2 but on pc it peaks at like 60 players most nights. I just want a good platform fighter (ssbu) with a good netcode and ranked system (rivals 1). Rivals 2 is exactly what I want but I hope others like it too

[@grzyruth9205]

I hope Multiversus continues to get updated consistently because I enjoy it a lot more than Smash Bros. It's on more platforms, has more iconic characters, and it's free 😃

[@oldschoolhistory3246]

The Nickelodeon guy's room is anarchy.

[@Lakjager]

I feel like the only game that will even come close to having the same impact as smash will probably be rivals 2 whenever it comes out.

[@DrCoeloCephalo]

_"Smash Killer"_ this _"Pokemon Killer"_ that Western gamers have to treat their nostalgic game genres like a cult meanwhile the Japanese whom invented these games never had any problem playing other games of the same genre.

[@TheGamingDandy]

The best smash like game that isn't smash is the Onimusha one on ps2. I will not be taking any questions.

[@powwu]

Rivals 2 looks AMAZING, to the point that I think it could rival Ultimate. Especially with the dwindling Ultimate meta.

[@DarenKajiWolf]

The first thing to remember is that it's an exclusive and Nintendo fight game fans are always there

[@MaskedEmperor18]

one thing that made brawlhalla stand out that it feels unique and fresh on its own . unlike most other fighters who tries too hard to be smash bros .

[@novathefallenstarwarrior]

I swear i head the music used in the beginning somewhere else before

[@Furiac.]

Rivals is sort of involved with smash events in a solid way. Coexists well

[@gr4pee]

Melee was a beautiful accident. The true “smash killer” will also be an unintended beautiful accident.

[@dgundz]

i don't know mush about platform fighter but this video is well made

[@zacdemarest5493]

this video uses music from BE Witches, a breast expansion fetish game

[@dougtheghoul2845]

A man of culture

[@derrickjohnson4952]

I rather a game be fun on its own merits than try so hard to be a “killer” any day

[@lazyvoid7107]

Man still want a playstation allstars battle royale 2

[@chaffgrenade_x3]

damn what is going on with that guy's house? 5:22

[@CarlJT]

Nothing will kill smash.

[@thepillar4313]

I have said it before and will say it again. There will never be another game like smash. Smash has 20+ years of trial and error to get the game mechanics and physics, visuals and audio just right. Every other game is just a copy, but there will never be another game that can match what smash has achieved with its level of density and its relevance to video games. It’s every child’s dream of playing with their action figures and fantasizing about their toys fighting each other.

[@Giggles_iJest]

Just wait till rivals2 gets here

[@VonSlakken]

I don't care about platform fighters, I'm just ehre for Bio. Bio, is that u? Good job :)

[@Ne-Vii]

We need a anime smash game. Naruto, One Piece, Full Metal alchemist, Slime, Attack on Titan, Bleach, HxH, Dragon Ball, Soul Eater, Death Note, Yugioh, Jujutsu Kaisen, Trigun, Gundam, Demon slayer, Black Clover. The roster can go forever. And actual IPs that people care about. This is the only thing I can ever see competing with smash

[@EngineerMonkeyBTD6]

Super Smash Brothers Crusade was awesome, by the way.

[@Phillyrider807]

It's crazy cause none of these official games are even close to being as good as PM/P+. Once brawlback is finished and brawl (and by extension brawl mods) gets rollback I wont have any need to play any other platform fighter.

[@dr.wolfstar1765]

I had such high hopes for nick brawl 2. Its a good game but its just still not as polished or as fun as smash bros. So far nothing comes close to smash bros

[@frogfarmer3551]

There were people unironically calling NASB1 better than Smash Ultimate. What a shit take LMFAO 😂

[@KyleBruce99]

The biggest thing that makes Smash so big is the characters and their movesets. The characters being pulled from franchises we all know and seeing a non fighting game character translated unto a fighting game character with references to the franchise are the biggest appeal. Smash Bros cornering the market on it being a celebration of video games really kills any other attempt at doing it. And games All Star Brawl or Multiversus or PSABR are neat concepts, but they're limited to a specific company. There is a limited pool of characters to be hyped for. If a company one day decided to say hey, were making a platform fighter based on ALL of comic books. Or cartoons. Or anime. Or a big medium that they can pull 1000s of characters to speculate on, that draws alot of the audience. The hype train and the speculation definitely helps. Another thing is alot the games don't have really good art styles. Playstation All Stars doesn't do a good job mashing up the characters. Most of the indy games are pixel styled games. Which looks cool to me but doesn't have a casual appeal. Brawlhalla looks like a mobile game. Smash doesn't get enough credit for how well it mashes all the characters and games etc together. Other games look really fucking weird because they don't develop their artstyle and make it original. It is AWESOME these devs understand what makes the games fun. But there is no casual appeal of OG characters or random guest characters with no rhyme or reason. I swear, if a platform fighter that had a universal art style that decided a comic book universe where Marvel, DC, The Boys, etc were all viable and they had good single player content, it'd be successful.

[@dudu-bs4750]

PlayStation all stars is an old game, it was probably an experimentation of what a PlayStation platform fighter would look like. I have no idea how brawlhalla looks like a mobile game??? Brawlhalla actually does a good job with the crossovers, it changes various franchises into their artstyle but without making it out of place or unrecognisable. I do agree on the comic book thing, that would be so sick!!! Also I heard one of the multiversus devs say that there could be a possibility of having different ips from different companies outside of WB.

[@DIOBrando-ij2bp]

I feel like we’re about to see a big wave of platform fighters coming soon. Like over the course of the next few years. Super Smash Bros. Ultimate was just too big to be ignored. It sold over 32 million copies in lest than five years. It’s one of the biggest retail selling games of all time. It’s nearest competition in sales is MK11 and that sold 15 million. And after that you’ve got Tekken and Dragon Ball FighterZ with 10 millions. Ultimate sold more than double its closest competition, and more than three times as much the stuff after that. That’s all to say, there’s no way the big fighting game publishers aren’t doing their own platform fighters after Ultimate, which oddly they’ve never made a serious go after. I kind of figured NetherRealm Studios would just do the next Mortal Kombat as a platform fighter, one based more around health instead of ring outs, but a platform fighter all the same. Was a little surprised to see WB Games had someone else do a platform fighter for them instead. Bandai Namco seems like the studio that’d most likely be the first of the big Japanese studios to get one out, they are after all the studio that made Ultimate, (and the 3DS and WiiU) and they do have a deal with Shueisha to make games using series from the Jump manga line.

[@gxfs99]

Smash Crusade on screen 🛐

[@savvyvii1377]

Rivals 2 is going to be the best competitive platform fighter of all time, if you know you know, and if you don’t know…your just missing out

[@alejandromelecio]

Realistically the only smash killer is smash itself. Whenever the next smash game comes out ultimate is dying fully just like what happened with 64, brawl, and smash 4 even though people today will argue about the roster size endlessly. There isn't enough interesting tech like in Melee to keep people playing.

[@shenangelo]

Yo is this bio?

[@matheusleandro219]

Sounds like him huh, but with a slightly lower tone

[@jemarshaw4986]

You can’t kill who started it

[@deppo436]

The future is looking good for platform fighters as a whole. I hope to one day make my own.

[@kylespevak6781]

I'd love a platform fighter that doesn't try to be an eSport. So few focus on fun

[@jeromemccalla9520]

The title of this video ages like milk, multiverses is back lol

[@blackbeargamer2052]

Multiverses gonna die again wb don't know shit

[@marzman4]

Honestly multiversus was pretty fun and considering i dont wanna buy a switch. Im prayinh it comes back

[@ayrsonlacayo585]

I’d say brawlhala is the closest one to smash (still not really close)

[@SapphoAi]

Thanks

[@kylespevak6781]

8:44 Casual content is so easy though. Arcade mode, unlockable fighters, practice, and a mini game

[@edlopez6907]

The only game thats gotten close to smash is rivals. This is because the game actually works and its why im very optimistic for rivals 2. Look at nasb. The first one just really looked like shit and it just waant fun to look at. I was excited for nasb 2 because it was very promissing but the game just doesnt work man. Its filled with unbearable bugs to this day.

[@3amshreddedcheese304]

There can’t be a smash killer, it kills itself

[@KilogramHours]

Sucks that Thaddeus got laid off by the time this released

[@Bombermanfan95]

fr though..

[@Yoshizuyuner]

Life be like that sometimes

[@DjKlzonez]

Thank goodness, dude did fuckall and claimed it as his own.

[@kylespevak6781]

The problem with this genre is everyone trying to make Melee 2 instead of a good game

[@anon3118]

Vita + all stars. But noooo....Sony doesn't like making what we want

[@lazyvoid7107]

Because Nintendo fanboys fault

[@doomham7652]

Playstation allstars 2 with a knockout mechanic would go hard. Especially since they have so many more IPs since then. Sad we wont get crash and spyro though brcause of Microsoft purchase.

[@YoungSimbaFGC]

NASB 2 IS LIT IDGAF WHAT YALL GOTTA SAY IN THE COMMENTS, WE GONNA PLAY FOREVER ❤