The Fall of Ancient Iconia

[@DeaconBlues117]

In the STO timeline, we also returned the World Heart to the Iconians after returning to our starting point, thus calling off the destruction of Earth. T'Ket never forgave, but the rest decided to retreat to one of their subspace "bunkers" and think things through before impinging on the galaxy as a whole. Presumably, sometime between the 25th and 32nd centuries they reached whatever conclusions they needed to, put a stop to T'Ket's attacks, and opened relations with what was left of the Federation after the Burn.

[@Jshogouki]

Iconians sounds sort of like the Alterans/Ancients from Stargate. A super ancient alien race far more advanced than any contemporary power even today that used a vast "gate network" as their main form of travel and is their most well known piece of technology.

[@LMG1792]

Yeah alot of similarities between them the ancients and forerunners

[@micheljavert5923]

True but a lost/forgotten hyper-tech precursor civ with instantaneous travel technology is a bit of a classic science fiction/space opera trope.

[@gordonf5553]

Yeah its just an age old archetype. Dates back to archaic greece even (and earlier, prolly, but Idk that), in a way. The whole "lost golden age"/"more powerful/better predecessors"

[@mrbojangles8133]

well this is trope used in books, TV, movies, games at times

[@DoctorX17]

I had forgotten about them mentioning the Iconians in Discovery! I hope some day we can learn more about their 32nd century existence, and the Andromeda galaxy...

[@MichaelDerouse]

Hopefully that will happen in Star Trek Discovery season 5.

[@kevinramsey417]

I wonder who would win a galactic war, the Iconians at the height of their power or the Tkon at the height of theirs?

[@Vlish]

It would be the Federation with Picard managing to get then into the organization.

[@gmradio2436]

Not sure about the Tkon, but the Iconians are a multi galactic empire. A quick run down of Iconian tech is the use of at least 4 Dyson Spheres, mass production of Omega particles and warping the laws of sub space and real space to insane degrees. They also overcame the galactic barrier.

[@daveh7720]

I don't know who would win such a war, but I suspect the rest of us would be the losers.

[@ericandes4288]

Good question. I would assume Iconian.

[@Aracore]

I'm putting my money on Rydeck and the USS Resolute :D

[@lovipoekimo176]

In my headcanon, the Iconians were driven to extinction by other races because they got annoyed at the Iconians calling everything they say and do as "iconic".

[@rconway1357]

The Epiconians took over

[@joebaranski1996]

@@rconway1357 Until the Legendarians showed up and yeeted them out of existence

[@dragnbane]

The Iconians have always been a HUGE interest to me. Along with the Borg

[@enisra_bowman]

Speaking of Andromeda, i wonder what the vengefull Iconians and their Dyson Sphreres had to do with the Kelvans from the TOS Episode By any other Name and the "radiation problem" in the Andromeda Galaxy

[@spartainwarrior6445]

There were Dyson spheres in andromeda so l it would be interesting to find out

[@lugiakane470]

paramount needs to do a series on them called star trek iconia id watch that anyday

[@Numba003]

The Iconians are one of the more interesting ancient races in Trek. I haven't watched Discovery yet, but it's nice to hear that the writers haven't forgotten the Iconians lol. Thank you for another episode. God be with you out there everybody. ✝️ :)

[@ffnbbq]

Something from Star Trek Online I liked was the Iconians holding onto the memory of the Others, the strange aliens who helped them escape the destruction of Iconia, and the revelation that the Others were the player's party.

[@joebaranski1996]

Friggin' Sela!

[@jimskywaker4345]

Sela! You’re an idiot every day of the week, why couldn’t you take one day off?

[@bipolarminddroppings]

I think the Iconians left this universe and moved an alternate one where they became the Protoss. Very similar looking tech.

[@tba113]

That would be hilarious. I imagine Starfleet redshirts would be taken a lot more seriously if they rocked up in CMC-300 powered combat armor instead of space-polyester.

[@Culdcepter]

"En Taro Adun!"

[@Nine-Signs]

We NeED MoRe VesPenE GaS!!!! 😱

[@wolfpack_104]

Random question for anyone who knows: In the Picard series, we see Seven of Nine's quarters but I don't recall seeing a Borg alcove for her to recharge. Did they ever explain how she currently recharges her Borg implants or has that not been explained so far?

[@enisra_bowman]

adding a wireless charger into the matress? It would make sense that they used the Borg Tech that's there and over the time since the Return of Voyager, they found an different improved way to recharge them that wasn't that ulitarian as the Borg Alcoven and why should the Collective improve in tech for more comfort or single drones

[@Darlf_Sevil]

her boddy probaddy slowly back to almost normal and destroy most of implants, some can just be inregratet and charge by energy from food, alos star

[@rachagainstthemachine.]

In the last season of voyager the doctor says that that she would need to eat and sleep more and regenerate less as her human body was rejecting the borg implants, so by the time of picard I'm sure she doesn't need to regenerate at all. Her only remaining borg implants would just be her false eye and hand

[@Darlf_Sevil]

@@rachagainstthemachine. brain core implant alos

[@louisvarre2197]

Wow…amazing oversight and observation!

[@kingsilvergrass8751]

just goes to show that even the most powerful and fearsome of humanoid beings were once gentle and immaculate, It's that reason why I acknowledge the Iconian's as the most powerful enemies/beings in my life in the Star Trek universe.

[@CoronisAdair]

From the way the Iconian war arc in STO framed it, the entangled chroniton states of their minds were consequences of becoming energy constructs, not inherent in their pre-fall biology.

[@sapstups]

Thank you very much for this!

[@user-kc2fu8iw3v]

0:35 i wonder if with picard's 1st season partially ripping off mass effect, its version of the reapers cleansing most of the galaxy was why the preservers were "the first humanoids to evolve," because the previous ones were wiped out in the past.

[@DeronJ]

I just got done SEEING Rik on OrangeRiver. Nice to put a face to the voice.

[@ehandley1045]

Doing stories about the Iconions and other things that trek is briefly mentioned in the past is what new trek should be focusing it’s stories. This is what I think makes STO so good

[@Shapes_Quality_Control]

One thing I often wonder about are the Altamid from Star Trek Beyond. Presumably in the prime timeline Altamid is still out there somewhere and still has a pissed off Krall eating aliens and looking for that bio weapon.

[@ndagda]

I saw you on Orange River's channel :)

[@Deamon93IT]

Would be awesome to see the Iconians' return in canon

[@pyromethious]

I always thought it was weird how they looked so much like the Founders

[@Cdr2002]

I’m pretty sure the Preservers and Precursors aren’t explicitly the same thing in the main canon, which I honestly prefer personally

[@chrissonofpear1384]

I like to think the Preservers are like a program or mantle that was continually handed down to younger races, perhaps initially, by the Precursors/Progenitors, that is, @Cdr2002 . So a bit like the Mantle of the Forerunners, in Halo?

[@corywilliams2255]

The term "humanoid" may be a verbal shorthand, but beings with a bilaterally symmetrical apparent physiology that are clearly not human or human-like would be more accurately described as "anthropoid".

[@theStormWeaver]

Anthro is derived from the Greek 'andro', which means man.

[@handlandj]

@@theStormWeaver Yeah best would be erect-standing sapient-equivalents. This would even cover the Tholians.

[@xavariusquest4603]

Tasha Years "love child" is responsible for the final solution against the iconians

[@gmradio2436]

No, not really. Sela was there for the attack of Iconian, but did not orchestrate it. It was already in motion before time travel was involved.

[@davidseligman6445]

I was gonna say , I don't know about love child .... then I saw the air quotes on rereading.

[@OverworkedITGuy]

Rick with the good stuff as always

[@Т1000-м1и]

Very cool

[@Syndr1]

Hi Cert, how deep did you go in The Vault for this info. 👏 👍

[@juliusarchibaldiv3880]

I hope more official things are done with the Iconians in Star Trek because, quite frankly, the Iconian War in Star Trek Online was a letdown. This is an unfortunate shame because, like the Advents/Creators/Uranus of Guyver, the Iconians are shrouded in mystery which makes me want to know more of them.

[@fishbaitx]

Hmm fascinating.

[@jsross33]

Commander...Throw it out the airlock.

[@travisjohnson622]

Maybe Discovery would have been better recieved if they decided to hide in the distant past. In the time of preservers, Iconians, and Tkon. I wouldnt mind at all if they wouldve bent canon just a little bit to have all species active at once, replacing the klingons, Romulans, and Federation with these three.

[@RA10H56]

They sound much like the Eldari from 40k..or vice-versa

[@quitifa]

Your content is 👌

[@Futur3sGamer]

Makes sense, the roman empire where like the iconions, but eventually they got slaughtered

[@Mister_Mag00]

i mean if you look at current transporter tech in picard and disco its basicaly gateway tech in just shorter distances

[@adamofgrayskull7735]

🤘😆🤘

[@tardiscommand1812]

Just saw what Rick looks like finally. Saw it on the Orange River channel

[@jamesfry8983]

Oh the Iconians it was a long time ago, but im sure they had them in the generation's game for pc.

[@Futur3sGamer]

Do a video on the HUSNAK,, amazing species

[@damenwhelan3236]

6:48 Yeah. Non sapient life being gene manipulated isn't the same as an already sapient species being gene manipulated or enslaved. Thiugh I see it as enslavement myself. Our own society doesn't see animals as slaves.

[@masamune..]

We need more protheons

[@dannylesbile8592]

Discovery made Iconian survivors cannon

[@Geth7777]

Nice fakeout with Prothy the Trollthian 🤣

[@samuelsimmons1408]

sounds more likely that the iconian people ultimately became the Borg.

[@SnarkNSass]

I❤Ric 🖖🏻😎

[@Iceflkn]

They couldn't invent a device to preserve their memories and such, in time travel? Or they didn't realize their slave races might want to rise up against them?

[@gmradio2436]

Probably not. Given their brains require time particles to function, they be trapped in a single timeline. An example would be sending an Iconian forward in time, they would gain memories of the missing time. Sending one back would remove memories.

[@Jayjay-qe6um]

Wish they appear physically in Nu Treks.

[@grahamturner1290]

🖖

[@BennyLlama39]

Anyone else hear the part about the Iconian bio-tech interface and instantly think "Borg"?

[@vortega472]

I'm sorry, I don't get the reference at 0:54...can someone help a brother out?

[@d.b.4671]

Mass Effect.

[@vortega472]

@@d.b.4671 Thank you, I'm afraid as only a simple small town bird lawyer, I am unfamiliar with Mass Effect. All kidding aside I'm not a computer gamer - so I appreciate that information - cool.

[@CaptainSovereign]

A litte bit they remind me to the forreuners...(343 era)

[@shadowhenge7118]

I love all the various lore of things, but its not actually interesting to me as much as other things. Paramount needs to stay in a perpetual state of "have a breadcrumb, but we cant give you the loaf because you'll stop coming back." As such most of the lore of star trek will never have a genuine payoff. Most of it will probably be contradictory. Who made The Guardian of Forever? The Whale Probe? The real story of V'ger, why did the Voth basically do nothing when all these other species were in thier infancy? The Q? The barriers? So many things Paramount will never actually answer because they may want to leverage another breadcrumb of it eventually. I enjoy Star Trek but at this point I expect nothing from it.

[@Shapes_Quality_Control]

Depends on what you are getting out of it. To often I see people obsess over stuff like the machine’s that enhanced V’Ger. That’s not what TMP is about though. TMP is about the value of emotional intelligence and how it can give one a more complete and sophisticated view of the universe beyond pure logic. That’s a complete and satisfying story in and of itself. I don’t need to know the extended lore of intergalactic robot people to feel I’ve got my money’s worth. Ultimately I think fans need to reevaluate what they are actually looking for in these franchises.

[@shadowhenge7118]

@@Shapes_Quality_Control yeah and I get that. Nimoy once said, i think, "Lets see where star trek takes us today" or something to that effect. I offer that is awesome, but it employs the "where" actually exists. Take your entire library of novels and cut the chapters with any exopistion off them. Are they still good books? Or do you want to wait till the 10th book you've bought to find out the resolution of a checkov's gun from the 1st? Part of the problem with Trek is they refuse to ever answer any questions so they can re-use the mysteries is that all of thier storytelling becomes reliant on an constantly rehashing the same material. It prevents them from going anyplace really new, or taking any chances. They're just miming along in an invisible box they refuse to leave.

[@Shapes_Quality_Control]

@@shadowhenge7118 Well I can think of a couple of problems here. First I’d like to address your chopped up library analogy. Now I’m the kind of guy who tentatively subscribes to the monomyths idea. When you get down to it we have been telling the same stories over and over since those first cavemen gathered around a fire. Star Trek III was Godzilla was Frankenstein was the Tower of Babel all the way back in Genesis (oh shit I’m actually realizing I came full circle and linked Genesis with Genesis 😅). Anyway… I don’t know how much “new” in a real metaphysical sense you can get out of it without running into problems philosophers and artists have been trying to work out for longer than I care to imagine. I also see the problem with this long form serialized storytelling that I think is more central to your analogy and agree, but this is also why I initially objected to DS9 as a kid. Like it or not the problem begins there. Star Trek’s televised success I feel was dependent on maybe it’s most overlooked aspect; it’s ability to tell an emotionally compelling and thought provoking narrative in just under an hour. Self contained but no less powerful adventures that took you someplace new each week. DS9 thereby poses a problem. One, it’s a space station. It can’t move so your creative freedom you once enjoyed as a writer for a show about space travelers is now hamstrung to this little corner of the galaxy. Two, you can’t have episodic adventures that have clear endings and leave no lasting impact on the setting because again…. You can’t just go anywhere. Despite all odds DS9 was popular with the fan base and that was the unfortunate critical blow because now writers think audiences want all Star Trek to be like that. Well… now you got it. This is your universe and it’s not going to get much bigger unless you can break the mold with something really new. Problem? I don’t believe for one second fans want new things. Star Trek Beyond was one of Trek’s best films and it showed us a lot of brand new things. How often do you hear fans talk about that movie that doesn’t involve bitching about rap music? Leaving Trek for a sec, people complained that The Force Awakens was too much of a retread on what came before. Now, I don’t think this. I think that criticism is overblown but I can see why some felt like Star Wars needed to break new ground. So how well did they take the most intellectually rigorous and daring follow up Star Wars film? Yeah, that’s what I thought. Now can we answer mysteries from the Trek that was that were not answered? Of course and it might be fun to see that…. But it requires us to go back and now we are back at the problem of not going someplace new. The only real solution I’ve found is to embrace the “speculative” in “speculative fiction.” Sure this can mean wondering what those bug creatures that took over Starfleet in TNG really were but I challenge people to take it a step further into the metaphysics of Trek. Take Beyond for example. Instead of getting lost in the weeds of stuff like “what happened to the Altamid” let’s discuss things the movie itself is asking…. Why we even out here? This, I feel, is where the real fun of thinking about Star Trek and it’s many mysteries lay.

[@radionoakmont7756]

i felt so sad for them if only they could have had children and so on that would be such an amazing species to have in starfleet and the federation something deep down is telling me some of those portals and floating city's is tied to Spyro the dragon first trilogy one of their worlds they could have tried to dabble into magic at one time as well making them even more powerful and more understanding of the universe as well, that cyan Iconian was beautiful i remember her from the story series, broke my heart to see her fall all cause of Sela being vengeful and the actual cause of the Hobus supernova to begin with, if she survived things would have been much different maybe in another timeline maybe in that other reality where the tholians with captain komarke stopped and sucked in that federation ship and them saying it is so beautiful, that might be such a universe science and magic as one them even uniting with that starfleet and megas tu even avalar spyro's second reality and even that v'ger could have been even more advanced as well super reality a light one not dark something good for once and not super evil or dark or a world of ultra psychos out to eat flash and drink fresh blood, just a awesome universe of just a something beautiful.

[@ANDREALEONE95]

The would be OP as hell into Federation hands.

[@radionoakmont7756]

@@ANDREALEONE95 oh indeed

[@PontificusPinion]

Sorry but what evolutionary benefit is it to have three pairs of front-facing eyes?

[@LMG1792]

They remind me alot of the forerunners from halo

[@wolfbane7497]

Iconian empire vs tkon empire do with it what you will comment section convince me who would win

[@Garywilliams-mm5lx]

Sounds like mass effect knockoff

[@Desticia-Sisenna]

Only Mass Effect didn't exist in the 80's.

[@Svevsky]

regarding the iconian uplifting program, havent we humans done the same with wolves? domesticating species to make them part if your civilization isnt really immoral, especially if they were non-sapient before.

[@asvarien]

When Sela attacked the Iconians it was one of the very few times I got angry at a fictional character, in fact it enraged me, I wanted to kill her myself.

[@vincentheflin9241]

That's not what the Iconians Look. Like.

[@davidhutchinson6007]

O Oo😊😊o😊

[@TheInselaffen]

Discovery Sphere is the Worldheart (?)

[@ThisIsMeAndNotYou]

522

[@Malkiore1]

The Devils Heart was the first ST book I ever read.

[@vortega472]

So what you're saying in this video that because the Iconians had this gate to the stars or Stargate if you will - and they had multiple versions of this Stargate, and this Stargate is a better mode of transportation, that you are saying that the Stargate franchise is better than Star Treking???!!!

[@mrsamaritan6881]

The events of STD aren't canon. That is so say, Star Trek Discovery takes place in its own universe, which includes Strange New Worlds and Lower Decks, and while many of the same events happened - based on the classic Star Trek universe - it belong is a reality called the "Prime" Universe instead.

[@Shapes_Quality_Control]

Unfiltered copium.

[@johnsteiner3417]

Sci-fi writers need top stop with the intelligent species making other intelligent species shtick. It's a grossly overused trope and wasn't even good in the first place.

[@jasondolph2785]

It is a trope because it is likely. If humanity ever has the tech, uplifted pets are extremely likely, let alone the possibility of creating AI. Heck, if humanity never gets FTL and we are the only intelligent species within our reachable universe, but we find other primordial life, curiosity leading to attempts at forced evolution and uplifting are very likely outcomes.

[@tumbles8350]

It's weird that all "humanoid" aliens are just actually bipedal. Would be like referring to all 4 legged animals as doglike.