The Fall of Nargothrond | Of the Children of Húrin: Tolkien's First Age Explained - Part 8 of 13

[@haleyschreiter9746]

Laughed out loud several times during the "What does Cirdan know?" rant 😂 You rebuked Turin's foolishness marvelously!

[@derubain5774]

Pure hubris on account of his succes imo. Who of us hasn't seen that happen to someone? Or if we're honest, experienced it ourselves. Pride comes before a fall

[@Dahnyule]

I think Dave broke the 4th wall and became the 3rd messenger from Círdan with that "you're a moron!" 😂

[@Mecceldorf]

It was perfectly set as the punchline to a bad joke. We all know Turin is ill-fated to suffer endless traumas, and we know that in his pride he will keep making bad choices, and we know through the set up that Nargothrond will surely fall, the question in the story is how. And Turin gets a message from arguably the greatest leader of his time sent directly by a god and says "what does he know?" That's it. Mate in 11 turns.

[@redmadebread5062]

Never ask a man his salary, a woman her age, and Rainbow Dave "What does Cirdan know?"

[@louisebrouillette5580]

Every day I check for the next installment of the epic tale of The Children Of Hurin, and today I was rewarded. Rainbow Dave, your story-telling is epic...thank you for all the work you put into these videos. They are loved by many!

[@tolkienuntangled]

That’s wonderful! Thanks for your lovely comment.

[@sunnyp6869]

You need to click the bell button..

[@pmcswain358]

Rainbow Dave I've always wondered how Morgoth and Sauron can have dragons. How is it possible when we know they can't create life yet the dragons have young that really grow and mature. The same for where the orcs came from. Later there is Ancalagon too. All of them are Maiar?

[@louisebrouillette5580]

@@sunnyp6869 I have it checked

[@Rellana1]

@@tolkienuntangled Just wondering if the Doom of Mandos had any part to play in what happened at Nargothrond as it appears Turin was so convinced he could take Morgoth's army that he didn't bother to scout what was coming until it was on-top of him.

[@fishymacaroon6]

What a wonderful surprise

[@Shirohige4yonko]

Reading and listening to the Story of Turin makes me wish that his role in the final war where he kills morgoth was real. Out of all the characters in the race of men he deserves a redemption moment like that. Good to see you back my friend.

[@kellydavidson3379]

Why am I so happy to find this video this morning? Glaurung is coming ... "and not in a fun way." Welcome back Rainbow Dave! You were missed.💖💖💖

[@tolkienuntangled]

Thank you! It’s great to be back.

[@samistueven5689]

Yes, you were:-))

[@HerrrLuna]

"in the most dragon-like fashion he hoarded the treasure" I knew (and hoped) from the very beginning of this series that you would make a comment like that when we came to this part! I love your way of telling the story! Keep up the good works!

[@tolkienuntangled]

Thanks!

[@amadahn1029]

"In elder days, before the fall of mighty kings in Nargothrond..." Glad to see you're back. Been looking forward to this for a while. :)

[@Crafty_Spirit]

... who now have passed beyond the sea - the world was fair in Durin's days 😢

[@MrARock001]

The deeper we go into Turin's decision-making process, the more it seems like Tolkien was writing an anti-Aragorn as a sort of First Age foil for his Third Age hero. Túrin's not evil, but he uses his good instincts in conjunction with all of his worst instincts. He indulges in his pride at almost every opportunity, and never seeks out wise counsel when it is offered to him. Túrin is the cautionary tale for the aspiring adventurer.

[@Crafty_Spirit]

But Tolkien conceived of Túrin and wrote on him decades before he wrote anything on Aragorn 🤔

[@MrARock001]

@@Crafty_Spirit ooh, so maybe Aragorn is an anti-Túrin, showcasing a good role model for heroism to contrast the failings of Túrin?

[@Crafty_Spirit]

@@MrARock001 Could be. What I noticed is that both the successful and the failing heroes face overwhelming odds but the latter ones tend to succumb to despair at some point, giving up hope. Aragorn was once named 'hope' (Estel) and I think he is a bit inspired by the ideal king according to Celtic and Germanic beliefs and also Jesus to an extent.

[@MrARock001]

@@Crafty_Spirit I agree. To some extent, I think it's both easier and harder to write a compelling Aragorn-type compared to a Túrin. Easier because you can just write that the character always makes the right choice, and as the author who controls the outcome you can reward the character for doing this. Harder because you have to be able to make the character relatable to all of us non-Aragorn readers. Túrin, on the other hand, can be written to make mistakes and have faults and be cruel or haughty occasionally, and get punished by the author for this, but be more relatable for it.

[@havolei]

There was no Morgoth, to lay a curse upon the family of Aragorn.

[@dasflunkie8400]

Dave is here, my weekend is saved. And what a fascinating subject matter! 🙏🏽 🌈 💋

[@ThunderhawkVeronicaLazerwolf]

Glad to have you back!! Thank you for breaking down the layers of plot, characters, and context. "What does Cirdan know??" Ha! That should have been a huge red flag. You're the best, Dave! I look forward to more, as always!!!

[@BrianStorm742]

I think Túrin also deserves credit for Orodreth's sudden burst of courage. The man clearly knows how to inspire people to do things they wouldn't normally be able or willing to do. (I mean, 'credit' is relative, because it was not a good idea of course. But you get what I mean).

[@phinks77]

Welcome back Rainbow Dave🌈! I hope you enjoyed your vacation. Also, thanks for your awesome work "in advanced" 😁 Time to watch it finally 🤓

[@tolkienuntangled]

Thanks! I hope you enjoy 😊

[@dravenblaze6907]

Once again the great orator of middle earth does not fail to disappoint. Love it man yet another beautiful retelling. Thanks.

[@brettmuir5679]

Cirdan all the way!!! Thank you for affirming the correct answer... But now I have to get onto watching the rest of your astute presentation. :) "Wonderful, Wonderful"

[@boneless_chicken1]

Welcome back rainbow dave your 1st age silmarillion coverage is utterly epic

[@johnc6809]

What a wonderful telling of such a tragic series of events.

[@ShehnaiGuy]

What an awesome surprise to wake up to! Can't wait to listen.

[@LHbluecat]

I never comment, but was compelled to do so when I heard your rolled R in Glaurung. Remember your frustration at not being able to, but now you can! Worth waiting for every time, a youtube treasure and best Tolkien channel here. Appreciate it RbD!!

[@tolkienuntangled]

Thank you very much!

[@mumbo-jumbo7917]

Insanely epic! What an amazing job capturing the tragedy of Tolkien's most epic tale. Beautifully done.

[@tolkienuntangled]

Thanks!

[@joyis9638]

This was an amazing narrative. I have not seen a video by you in over a year but this a new and great achievement that JRRT would be impressed by. I know as much as anyone about Middle Earth and enjoyed all your analysis immensely. Emotions in your delivery also were powerful.

[@tolkienuntangled]

Thank you very much!

[@laquishawilliams8467]

The way you say and and but is stuck in my head forever more

[@thatcrossfitdude]

Buckle up, kids. Your weekend’s dose of Tolkien-dom and entertainment is sorted now that our dear Rainbow Dave is back. Missed ya, bud❤

[@Robutnikon]

Always the BEST Tolkien content! Rainbow Dave for the WIN! 🎉💪🏻💞😎

[@denissediaz3640]

Ugh, stupid KZbin. I have all notifications on for this channel and it didn’t tell me about this video!! It was a nice surprise though. Can’t wait. ❤❤ you’re the best RD!!

[@tolkienuntangled]

Thanks!

[@astridchladek1927]

Oh joy! Oh wonderful joy! Last day of the holidays on the lakeside, sitting in a super comfy lounge chair overlooking the beautiful Milstättersee in Carinthia after a lovely late barbecue lunch what do my eyes behold? At last another video by my most beloved Tolkieneer💖💖💖❤️❤️❤️ I was waiting sooo impatiently already for your new video! Thank you so much! Hope you are well! Now…. Indulging in the pleasure that is watching your video! 💖💖

[@tolkienuntangled]

Awesome! Enjoy the last of your holiday! ☺️

[@theargonath7938]

Having recently finished The Silmarillion, this story is about to get really dark.

[@kylevols123]

Dave! This was utterly epic and tragic. I’ve never commented before but your channel has become a constant companion as I delve into the Legendarium. I can’t ever show how much I’ve appreciated this journey, your insights and narration and most importantly, your passion for these stories. With much love, Hanta Hantanyel!

[@tolkienuntangled]

Thank you very much. Your comment is greatly appreciated!

[@GryphonDes]

These are always so enthralling and delightful! Thanks for all the work these must take!

[@tglrod]

What? a new video of the series? is it my birthday?! You just made my day Rainbow Dave, looking forward to this video!

[@gutterpeach]

FINALLY DAVE THANK YOOOOOU I AM SO EXCITED.

[@CarolynHemphill14]

Once again a compelling and gripping telling of this tragic first age tale. I’ve been eagerly awaiting this installment and was glued to my seat throughout. Hats off to such wonderful storytelling and exploration of the depth of Tolkien’s work.

[@lizziesmusicmaking]

Orodreth was at Tol Sirion and held the tower until Sauron came against it and took Minas Tirith by assault nearly two years after the Dagor Bragollach. I think being attacked by Sauron using magic and werewolves definitely counts as a battle! It's just that Orodreth lost it without pulling anything epic enough to be recorded in the Silmarillion.

[@GreyPilgrim_Mithrandir]

So glad you're back on. I'm loving this series on Kiddies of Hurin, great work.

[@annettehopkins6895]

I really enjoyed this video. Your videos inspired me to read the Similarian and recently The Children of Hurin. I so wish that Turin would've chosen to try to save Finduilas, but then again it wouldn't end as tragic story like a tragic Shakespeare play. I was also bummed about Beleg being killed by Turin. (By the way, thanks for introducing me to Beleg. He is now my second favorite elf after Legolas. I just love all the elves who are great with a bow. I also love all the other elves that are your favorites.) Actually, it seems that all the tragedy's of this story is caused by Turin's decisions. Although, while the "curse" has some power over him, he had many opportunities to break the "curse" by following other people's advice. Morgoth has to send the dragon to deceive Turin into making the poor choice, which of course he does with lies.

[@tolkienuntangled]

I’m so glad I’ve inspired you to read the Silmarillion!

[@Vectorsmoon]

Welcome back Rainbow Dave! :D 🌈 seeing the notification for this video excited me so much my heart skipped a beat, and I dropped what I was doing and settled down to watch it. I just wanted to let you know how much I love your channel 🌈❤️ your passion has led me to become slightly hyper-fixated on middle earth and Tolkien, and the way you tell each story is unmatched. It’s really amazing :D Watching your videos has left me with one question I was hoping you might be able to answer. Do you know all of this content off by heart or do you have to complete research before each video/series? There’s so much detail and so many characters, remembering everything seems like a massive task. Thank you for your videos and I hope you have a lovely day! :D 🌈❤️

[@tolkienuntangled]

Thanks very much! That’s so lovely of you. I do quite a bit of researching and note-writing before I’m able to start recording.

[@shaunlan5193]

I binged all 8 hours of this series over this weekend. Its so epic! Thank you rainbowdave!

[@TheGoodesBrothers]

What a great way to finish off the week 🙌

[@nadinemottley5229]

Another quality video Rainbow Dave. I love the respect you show Tolkien and these videos absolutely make my day. Well met ❤

[@tarlhall5149]

Love the "What does Kirdan know" indignation RD! 😅

[@masstrapper7645]

Sure glad your back. I can’t wait for the next installment. Well done as always. 👍👍

[@KaiHung-wv3ul]

Hearing this, getting to the Ruin of Doriath and the Fall of Gondolin is going to hit so hard, I just know it.

[@joseph.icerebro]

YES! I HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS FOR SO LONG - BLESS YOU

[@lizziesmusicmaking]

I've always gone with the fallen maia for Glaurung, seeing him as analogous to Draugluin but more powerful. Between the magic, the active cruelty, and the obvious intelligence of Glaurung he always seemed like a person to me. Just a very nasty person in the form of a giant magic firebreathing reptile.

[@Noitartst]

Same here; he's far, FAR too demonic to be simply a trained beast; his malice is just too pointed.

[@denissediaz3640]

I didn’t interpret Glaurung as a trained beast. How I understood it, G was infused with a “part” of morgoth’s power, not a large part like Sauron, but a little of his malice (he has a lot of malice lol) and it took a personality in Glaurung.

[@Noitartst]

@@denissediaz3640 Did you see him as a maiar? I can't see him as anything less. Yes he's got a portion of Morgoth' power, I'm sure, but he is probably also a maiar, on top of that, per my reading of Tolkien. Other wise, the dragon would lack an animating spirit and be simply a beast, which Glaurung clearly is not.

[@denissediaz3640]

@@Noitartst mmm i did not see him as a Maiar before but I can see how Glaurung would have to be one to not just be a puppet. You’re right lol

[@Noitartst]

@@denissediaz3640 You flatter me, but I'm just trying to point things out; the more one studies Tolkien's Middle Earth, the more thematic consistencies one notices. Thank you for appreciating.

[@leegleeson1903]

Welcome back 🌈 Dave, hope you enjoyed your break. Thanks for the video mate, I really enjoy your insights and story telling.

[@tolkienuntangled]

Thanks very much!

[@conniekim1142]

Welcome back! I’m so happy to continue watch this series. You are a story telling genius!!!

[@tapunyr8526]

Glad to see you back, Dave! And thank you for the wonderful video as always ❤

[@tidcooney6273]

What a gift on a Friday afternoon. Welcome back, groover x

[@vincentwerts4724]

I don't suppose we could expect the tale of Turin's kid sister to be a feel good coming-of-age story, could we?

[@tolkienuntangled]

That sure would be lovely!

[@lorierush6561]

Sadly no we can't. It would be a pleasant surprise though.

[@lorierush6561]

I mean it would be if it does.

[@turinturambar1159]

Thank you for continuing this epic series, I was so excited for this to come out that I started it on sight, no questions asked. Hoping all is going exceptionally well for you, sir, thank you again!

[@jodifu6274]

And once again, me and the kids, sitting here like we're huddled around a campfire, listening to the best verbal story-teller we've ever heard. You're amazing, RD!

[@tolkienuntangled]

Thank you! Very much appreciated.

[@jodifu6274]

@@tolkienuntangled Very much deserved! You really are incredible at this.

[@Dahnyule]

Absolutely stunning once again and I must say I've been loving these sort of emotionally-charged 4th-wall-breaking rants; they truly exemplify your passion and enthusiasm for, not only telling these stories, but showing all of us how they've moved you, it's one of the most unique and delightful aspects of watching your content! Bravo!

[@tolkienuntangled]

Thank you very much!

[@JAB6322]

As soon as I heard you sigh at the start, I knew s**t is about to hit the fan 🥲 Also got The Silmarilion book. Finally gonna dip my toes into the JRR Tolkien's fandom 🥰

[@karlarden6260]

Happy Friday, Rainbow Dave. Welcome back! Your absence was felt, stay groovy, and don’t go away again!

[@goochmcduck4285]

This is the best Friday ever!!! Thank you so much! ❤ you Mr. Rainbow

[@justintheking1]

Very happy to see these videos continuing! What a great way to start a morning!

[@RJ420NL]

Excellent storytelling as always. Thank you :)

[@TheMorbia]

I really LOVE all of these fantastic names of both men, elves and beast! Yeah things and times and tides as well! Such a rich mind of JRR T and also your way to speak them out of course! Words (worlds) DO matter! Some thoughts from this elderly Swede Lady.....😍👍🇸🇪🇬🇧👍😍

[@chrisschmalhofer4348]

Welcome back, Rainbow Dave!

[@sydnicopeland9030]

Welcome back Dave hope your holiday was great. So excited for tolkienuntangled day!

[@tolkienuntangled]

Thanks very much!

[@lizziesmusicmaking]

Re Celebrimbor reforging gurthang and being present at Tumhalad, that's my headcanon too, and I have written fanfiction based around that. It just makes sense - among other things, it explains how Celebrimbor got out of Nargothrond alive better if he wasn't shut in the caves when Glaurung got there.

[@bobbiholder5216]

Thanks Dave!! Can’t wait for the next one!

[@j0b01231]

Oh Rainbow Dave it’s good to hear your voice again.

[@vogelfound]

I have missed your content and your energy! What a treat to see your post this morning. 😊

[@jennipherem3695]

Tiny aside: If we are accepting Gil-galad as Orodreth's son born in Beleriand to a Sindarin mother (as I like to), this is the ideal moment for him to be taken away to the havens: Orodreth, who has not been king for all that long, and now has to consider preserving the line of kings of the Noldor, finds himself approached with a warning by the messengers of Cirdan. I like to imagine that, while Túrin doesn't heed their warning, Orodreth at least takes the precaution of protecting his son by sending him with the messengers back to Cirdan, allowing him to become High King in the Second Age. So (as well as in helping Tuor) their mission is not futile.

[@RiccoDisfaktism]

I agree! If we accept Gil-galad as Orodreth's son, it wouldn't really make much sense to have him sent to the Mouths of Sirion back in the time of the Bragollach, as the published Silm tells us: in that version, it makes sense as he'd be Fingon's heir. But in a "revised" Silm, it would be more fitting for him to escape from Dorthonion to Nargothrond in the company of dad Orodreth and sis Finduilas, and only reach Círdan after the Battle of Tumhalad (who knows, maybe he took part in the battle and survived). Also, having him live in Nargothrond would mean he got to know Celebrimbor before the events of the Second Age!

[@nathanmabeo2076]

I yelled in excitement when I saw you posted

[@CoffeeIceScream]

This brightened up my ride to work this morning. Thanks 🌈 Dave!

[@eudorius]

Welcome back! ❤

[@AlejandroBetancourtweb]

What does Cirdan know? Well, for an elf that has lived 10.000+ years, he should've know that when THE god of waters has a life or death message to be delivered to save a kingdom, you just don't send two dudes to deliver said message, and you certainly must deliver it yourself making sure it is followed. Conversely, if Ulmo has such a message, he himself should've have warned Orodreth and Turin. 😅I know you are going to hate me for this but... Point for Finrod to break the tie between Cirdan and Finrod😅

[@andrewlanham1372]

Welcome back Dave! Been looking forward to this one. LEEEETTTTTTTTSSSSSSSSS GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[@WolfgangSeiya]

Dude, you're back and my weekend is off to an epic start! Thank you, thank you, thank youu!!!!

[@christinawanner6749]

Again a amazing detailrich and epic section from the Story. ❤ Have a good Time and nice Day.

[@aisal5112]

I am starting to seriously ask myself, if I like the Silmarilion and others told by you better, than I always did the originals.! YOU are EPIC! Would you mind some hacks about your microphone and sound settings? I'd love to share some experience with you in that matter.

[@tolkienuntangled]

Haha, thanks very much! Sure, advice on microphone and sound settings would be great.

[@jorgeorellana5941]

as always truly grateful of your dedication and storytelling in your videos, thanks a lot

[@tolkienuntangled]

So nice of you. Thanks!

[@adb9231]

Love the show and thanks. I find it hard to believe Morgoth could corrupt a big snake all the way into a mighty fire breathing dragon (and it’s subsequent kin). But I appreciate we are limited in the options explaining Glaurung.

[@sdazzle2460]

Soo looking forward to this Rainbow Dave. Thanks for the upload!

[@Haggen_shredzz]

I cannot express enough for how much i love these videos.

[@laram.8768]

Your channel was recommended to me recently and I gave it a try because I love listening to story analysis while I work - and what a delightful surprise it was! You're so passionate about the lore, you take us through the events making all the connections between characters, parallels, and as someone who doesn't have english as my first language I greatly appreciate the language bits. You made me see how poetic Tolkien's stories are and introduced me to this wonderful world. There's no channel like yours, keep up the great work!

[@lyndazema94]

So great to hear you voice again! I love this channel

[@lancevalencia6852]

I always assumed the way Orcs are corrupted elves and trolls are corrupted ents, that dragons were corrupted versions of the great eagles.

[@angelulopez2648]

Thank you Rainbow Dave 🙏🏼

[@djw267]

Love you Rainbow Dave!! Please do a huge series on Tuor and the fall of g!!

[@tolkienuntangled]

Will do!

[@genoman87]

Oh my! You should have listened to Cirdan!!! He’s always “Wright”!

[@zenocrate4040]

I love you and your videos so much. I’m sorry - your witty, eloquent, genius storytelling deserves a much more sober and mature response and I will get around to that once I finish listening to this latest one. I consider it proof that Arda is indeed marred that you don’t have a host of Tolkien aficionados descending upon your channel within minutes of posting…

[@tolkienuntangled]

Thanks very much!

[@Closetscholar]

Another wonderful video Chroma-Dave!

[@mrs.manrique7411]

Morgoth split his soul like a Harry Potter horcrux and put it into Glaurung. (Half joking). We know elves put their fea into their children and physical creations. Glaurung and Morgoth were strongly connected regardless of distance between them.

[@fred20097]

In this video, the enslavement of elves are discussed. The Rings of Power show brilliantly what it is like to be a slave of the orcs. Really well done and great monsters. Much easier to visualise than before

[@egoborder3203]

wonderful as always!

[@jameshitt3263]

Imagine if Turin had made the decision to save Finduilas: there could have then been two major houses of half-elves from both Tuor and Turin. I can only surmise that that surely would have made subsequent years and ages turn out a little better...

[@WhoIsCalli]

Great yet sad episode. Thanks Dave 🧝‍♂️

[@michellerothwell5018]

Such a good video …again! Well told. I hope your book is going well 😊

[@tolkienuntangled]

Thanks very much!

[@TETASARAIVACS]

IMAGINE! If we could have a really good and true film about that stories of the First Age of Middle Earth but from Glaurung’s point of view!

[@maryeckel9682]

Stupid KZbin didn't tell me this was up! I have to say, I love how your pronunciation of the names just makes a delicious soundscape for Arda.

You're back!!! 🎉❤

[@Dr_Cole]

Absolutely worth the wait!

[@tolkienuntangled]

Thanks!

[@elismith8234]

Thanks for another amazing video!

[@FabioOsorio619]

And just like that, we got him back! It’s a great day today.

[@amandahill5304]

Yes you’re back ❤

[@richardjohansen5371]

The tale of Turin makes Shakespeareian tragedy look like comedy.

[@AshishRaj_27]

As always an awesome video... In the first few minutes during the intro I was thinking how come Morgoth created dragon and bang at that very moment u started speaking about it as if reading your viewers mind, my mind... fantastic experience...❤