The False Gospel of Rome / Douglas Wilson

[@gregorykotoch5045]

34:00 "Where was your church before the reformation? Well, where was your face before you washed it." What a great insight.

[@TheRgordon16]

The church was in darkness when Rome hijacked it and turned it into a murderous institution. Usurping the authority of kings and torturing anyone who rejected their false doctrines.

[@duckymomo7935]

The church was fine until Lateran council 1215 The reformers never actually wanted to split from the church. Luther says: “Thus, we, too, nowadays call the Roman Church holy and all the bishoprics holy, although their faith has been undermined and all the bishops and their servants are godless. For God rules in the midst of His enemies (Ps. 110:2); again, Antichrist sits in the temple of God (2 Thess. 2:4), and Satan is present in the midst of the children of God (Job 1:6). Therefore, even though the church is 'in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation,' as Paul says in his Epistle to the Philippians (2:15), even though it is in the midst of wolves and robbers, that is, spiritual tyrants, it nevertheless is the church. Although the city of Rome is worse than Sodom and Gomorrah, yet Baptism, the Sacrament of the Lord's Supper, the reading (vox) and text of the Gospel, Holy Scriptures, the ministry, the name of Christ, and the name of God remain in her. Those who have made these their own have them; those who have not done so are not excused, for the treasure is there."

[@vesogry]

@@TheRgordon16 If you want to be brainwashed, that's your choice.

[@matthewbroderick6287]

@@TheRgordon16 provide the names of those allegedly tortured by the Church of Rome and provide the alleged errors taught by the Church of Rome? You are in my prayers as you journey toward Truth! Peace always in Jesus Christ our Great and Kind God and Savior, He whose Flesh is true food and Blood true drink

[@pjcortens]

@@TheRgordon16 Have you heard of Henry VIII? England was peaceably Roman Catholic before the Tudors visited their Protestant horrors upon the peacefully devout populace.

[@geoffrobinson]

Paul seemed to think that an outright denial of justification by faith alone meant the Judaizers were false brethren.

[@mariusciobanu2025]

Yes the teachers had their faith in the wrong thing. A catholic can also believe something that's incorrect but have full faith in Christ.

[@josiahpulemau6214]

@@mariusciobanu2025 That I believe would apply to even those in the Charismatic and Pentecostal movements

[@einarabelc5]

Galatians!

[@Edward-ng8oo]

Yes I agree Paul did regard them as false believers. This is where I disagree with Wilson. He fails to take into account the distinction between someone who is in error but still a Christian and someone who is a heretic and not a Christian. Both the errorist and the heretic could believe in exactly the same things but the distinction between them is that the errorist believes what he does through ignorance of the truth, whilst the heretic has been instructed in the truth and yet rejects it. A heretic to use the analogy of electricians and their wiring is someone who wires a building up in completely the wrong way so that he's electrocuted, whilst an errorist is someone who although he wires the building up in exactly the same faulty way doesn't turn the power on. The way that Wilson frames the analogy though gives the impression that one can wire a building up in a dangerous fashion and turn the power on but not end up being electrocuted.

[@DEADxVenom]

All scripture is breathed out by God so if you deny what Paul said that it’s faith alone than you’ve fallen from grace “You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.” ‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:4‬ ‭

[@annakimborahpa]

Excerpt from John Calvin's Institutes of the Christian Religion, Book III, Chapter 21, Paragraph 7: "We say, then, that Scripture clearly proves this much, that God by his eternal and immutable counsel determined once for all those whom it was his PLEASURE one day to admit to salvation, and those whom, on the other hand, it was his PLEASURE to doom to destruction." Ezekiel, Chapter 18, Verses 23, 32 (ESV): "Have I any PLEASURE in the death of the wicked, declares the Lord GOD, and not rather that he should turn from his way and live? ... For I have NO PLEASURE in the death of anyone, declares the Lord GOD; so turn, and live."

[@wilfredstewart3348]

Thanks Doug. I love your style and I find your teaching refreshing. Others who seem to be hating are wedded to their own personal doctrines not necessarily God's.

[@dreamweaver3406]

Very charitable- as a former Catholic I appreciate how he didn’t say all Catholics are headed for hell

[@ggturner13]

The Reformation was the worst mistake in Christianity.

[@setaside77]

​​@@patrickmeyer2598you are wrong in your assessment that James condemned faith alone. He wrote in his letter, that works would be prove or would be evidence of faith. Or that faith that does not produce fruit/works, is not genuine faith. If you say love your wife but never show it in any way, especially through faithfulness, then you don't really love her. You may have a mushy feeling for her sometimes, even care about her, but you do not have genuine love, if that love doesn't produce some evidence.

[@2drsdan]

@@patrickmeyer2598 And I am a former Catholic, infant baptized, Catholic primary school, My cousin, a Nunn is my God Mother, her twin brother is a priest, so I speak Catholic VERY well and all that you are pointing to above has ZERO weight when it comes to THE personal relationship that every Christian is supposed to develop with their Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. I met Him personally on a jail cell cot in 1977, was born again, SAVED, and said goodbye to the Catholic hoo-doo. I mean who needs that crap when you KNOW Jesus? And all one has to do is humble yourself and ask Him, just like the word says. With Jesus, there is no need for the C church.

[@2drsdan]

@@patrickmeyer2598 Also, just when exactly did Jesus invent the Eucharist?

[@2drsdan]

@@patrickmeyer2598 BUT, it's a DOCTERIN. Salvation/Born Again is an EVENT as attested by Jesus Himself. It's not a teaching it's an experience, a life-altering event. The very event that Jesus came and died to implement the ONLY path available to the Father for mankind to travel and the Catholics turn that into a "just chomp the Jesus cookie" and enter the kingdom. It doesn't work that way and never did. Your example of John 6 testifies to the error of the Catholic church's teaching by missing the point Jesus is teaching. It's about the BELIEF not the action of eating. It's about Jesus Himself standing in our stead, dying for our sins and that GRACE, through our faith/belief in Jesus, NOT BY WORKS or the action of eating even the consecrated. It is that action of believing that Jesus uses to save us from our sins and pave the way to the Father and eternity by paying the price for us on the cross and then resurrecting into the new Born Again/Starting Over life Jesus has provided for us through simply belief in Him as savior. No need for Priest and Nunn. Jesus makes us ALL priests by simply believing. Got Jesus? Are you Born Again? when did it happen? it happened to me on Oct. 17th 1977 in jail in Norwalk Conn. late afternoon. Just ask Him and you shall receive, Knock and the door will be opened. Jesus save Patrick by your holy name.

[@seanleeduncan]

Thank you!

[@ConciseCabbage]

29:50 - this Adam and Eve typology is totally new to me. Most Cathodox focus so heavily on Mary being the new eve, but this makes more sense

[@PaDutchRunner]

Mark OnTheBlueRidge Well said.

[@michaellawlor5625]

@Mark OnTheBlueRidge Really? Read the fathers commentarys on that or Sam shamoun who is a protestant that believes in Mary being the new eve.

[@TheRgordon16]

Michael Lawlor The only true Father with authority over doctrine is God alone. And His Word says absolutely nothing about Mary being the new Eve. In fact, how can anyone comment on Mary when none of the Apostles write a single word about her? She is only mentioned few times in the Gospels, once in the book of Acts but not once in the Epistles. Not even James, her own son, wrote about her nor does John her adopted son.

[@artscraftsantiquity2185]

I’m not sure what you are talking about. I Was in the Catholic Church my entire life, and I literally never heard any typology of Catholics acting as if Mary is like Eve. Mary is a saint. Because the Catholic priests don’t allow Catholics to be Saints until after death, Catholics don’t know how to fellowship as the Saints do in Protestant denominations. It is why Catholics are so loving towards and drawn towards fellowship in prayer with dead saints. It’s the sin of the Fathers of the church (priests) that are then cast down on the church, the Christians want to fellowship with dead Saints. The priests impede fellowship between Christians in the Catholic Church. The Protestant false view that Catholics are praying to the Saints, is a strawman imo, they are not praying to Saints they are meeting at God’s throne of grace with Saints to pray to God’s Holy Trinity. Of course I still now refuse to worship in a Catholic Church especially if they have Christ dead on the cross, and I take special issue with the evilness of the forced celibacy doctrines for all priests and the insistence in an apostolic tradition that is passed down by falliable priests. The Catholic Church is filled with toxicity, but there are many Christians in this church.

[@TheRgordon16]

@R Treadwell Your ability to read seems shady. Maybe you don’t know the difference between The Gospels and the Epistles. I said in the Epistles (letters written by the Apostles to the churches AFTER Jesus returned to heaven) there is absolutely no mention of Mary. They did not write about her at all. That is a fact. So learn how to pay attention to what you read.

[@joshuastavos4376]

Righteousness among the Hebrew apostles, disciples, and followers of Yahshua is following his father’s laws, commandments, and warnings. This remains the definition of righteousness. Yahshua is clear about this in the Gospel. John and Paul made this clear in their writings. This is clear in Revelation too.

[@australiainfelix7307]

Is the strongest argument? I'm genuinely curious. Because I didn't find it convincing.

[@joshuaslusher3721]

Seems the strongest and kindest I have found, but still not good enough I would agree.

[@alexanderescoto7037]

Is the teaching that the Church was born from the side of the crucified Christ a common teaching?

[@gregorykotoch5045]

Does Doug say that in the video?

[@alexanderescoto7037]

@@gregorykotoch5045 thats what i understood

[@alexanderescoto7037]

And i think he is right. I just have never heard anyone else say it outside my particular circle

[@gregorykotoch5045]

Yes I remembered him talking about it right after I left the comment.

[@michaelibach9063]

It is in Catholicism, which is why we consume the Eucharist. The sacrament that makes one the body of Christ by infusing Christ’s body into us. Exodus 12:7-11 7 Then they shall take some of the blood, and put it on the two doorposts and the lintel of the houses in which they eat them. 8 They shall eat the flesh that night, roasted; with unleavened bread and bitter herbs they shall eat it. 9 Do not eat any of it raw or boiled with water, but roasted, its head with its legs and its inner parts. 10 And you shall let none of it remain until the morning, anything that remains until the morning you shall burn. 11 In this manner you shall eat it: your loins girded, your sandals on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and you shall eat it in haste. It is the LORD's passover. To be passed over, you must eat the lamb. Humanity was born from the side of Adam, eve and her children. Christ is the new Adam and from His side, is born the church and her children.

[@ml5554]

Seen this video probably a few times last years, helpfull. Good to watch when religous group identity or subculture becomes to big a thing

[@dobsterdad5560]

Are the electricians elect? 😊

[@jacobwhitus3715]

Imagine if DW was your jury foreman?!!

[@josiahpulemau6214]

I imagine it would be similar to this video. He’s talking and we’re just listening 🤣🤣🤣

[@SWillTiamG]

@@josiahpulemau6214 but it would be a very good talk

[@josiahpulemau6214]

@@SWillTiamG I agree. My mother and all her sisters are Catholics. They won’t give me the time of day to share with them the gospel of Christ so listening to DW is very edifying for me

[@einarabelc5]

@@josiahpulemau6214 Sorry you had to grow up with Dogmatic people, but most of us are all just cowards, that's why we need Christ. Imagine how God feels about that. If that's how we feel about our families.

[@josiahpulemau6214]

@@einarabelc5 The Sovereign is furious with those who love evil and hate good. Angry with those who reject the light and love darkness. Catholicism is doctrine of demons and I’m most certain God isn’t happy with those who love it

[@fnfjedi]

Concerning Ps. Doug's comment of the birth of the Church occurring at Jesus's death on the cross, that being: 'But one of the soldiers pierced his side with a spear, and at once there came out blood and water. ' John 19:34 consider 'On the last day of the feast, the great day, Jesus stood up and cried out, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to me and drink. Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’” ' John 7:37-38

[@philcortens5214]

What about work out your salvation with fear and trembling?

[@arthurwoodson288]

We work out what God has put in. We do not work for our salvation. The Holy Spirit lives in us & though we are justified we are not sanctified so the process of sanctification is the working out of our salvation through the power of the Holy Spirit in our lives. Along with our spiritual growth we will do good works for God's glory, but not for our salvation. Ephesians 2 : 8-10. God Bless !

[@philcortens5214]

@@arthurwoodson288 The point is the God requires our cooperation with his grace in the economy of salvation. Or as the DR explains, "Not of works": as of our own growth, or from ourselves; but as from the grace of God.

[@carld3218]

I'm a proud Catholic, and I LOVE THE LORD AND MY PROTESTANT BROTHERS AND SISTERS!

[@Ransetsu]

We love you too!

[@frankcastelo6980]

Catholicism is paganism.

[@carld3218]

@@frankcastelo6980 yet whenever someone is possessed by a demon, they always go to a Catholic Priest for deliverance. And satanists never steal a host from a Protestant church for desecration, it always comes from a Catholic Mass. So who has the true presence of Jesus?

[@thesheep6248]

@@carld3218when i was possessed I just called on the name of Jesus. I didnt need some guy in a dress

[@jeremynethercutt206]

Love you too ! aside our disagreements knowing that you have all your faith in the Lord Jesus, and he forgave you for all your sins past present and future, and you only rely on him for your salvation that it is none of your cell that he has called you chosen works in and through you preach the gospel lead others to Christ by his decree and we can disagree on other things, but we will serve the Lord our God Jesus Christ the only differences the differences our prayers our salvation is all of the Lord Jesus Christ! I will pray for you and I ask you to pray for me that we carry no burdens of man that we carry no rules other than responsibility and commandments of our savior staying with scripture and all you read don’t look inside the church for explanation, but let the Bible speak for itself Sola scriptura , God has spoken through his word , let that be your authority! Much love!

[@clevelandburke4533]

If you love Jesus you have to keep His commandments.

[@phoenixgamer1565]

You are a fool if you think you no longer sin. You are trusting in yourself instead of the finished, perfect work of Jesus Christ on the cross.

[@Jus4kiks]

@@phoenixgamer1565 love is shown through your obedience to God. Didn’t see someone say they don’t sin - comment may have been deleted tho and please excuse me if it was.

[@phoenixgamer1565]

@@Jus4kiks I was respond to Cleveland Burke's comment. I will ask you, do you never sin anymore? If you say you no longer sin, you are fooling yourself. So long as you are alive in your fallen flesh, your spirit will battle the flesh and at times will still sin. You will still sin, but you will still go to Heaven because the moment you believed the Gospel of Jesus Christ you were sealed by the Holy Spirit and gained eternal life: It cannot be lost. God may chastise you if you continue in backsliding in sin, but God will never stop loving you and you are His forever if you have been saved. 1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

[@Jus4kiks]

​@@phoenixgamer1565 I currently hold the same belief as you about salvation and not losing it. I want to study the book of Hebrews more because that was directed at believers and says very controversial things to our current belief. Will continue to study and learn, have a great day. If you ever get a chance to check out David Pawson's 'Once saved always saved?' - great videos and book. Take care. Thank you for the reply.

[@billturner6564]

It's all in the fraize counted as ..!!!! That is all there is to it it's not about what you really are it's about how God counts you and no one gets to argue if he is counting wrong or right ... A genuine profession of Christ is all the theafe was able to do there was no works no restitution nothing but the accepting of Christ and God counted him as justified. Just accept it don't worry any one who is going as far as being nailed to a Chross beaten tortured for your sake I. Order that you might be saved and if that person had ultimate power over the whole universe time creation and death , I think you can safely be confident in you safety Just trust and be grateful..

[@rockstar696]

So God calls someone righteous though he isn't? He doesn't make righteous what he calls righteous?

[@joshf2218]

Harry Waddington no good Protestant denies that

[@einarabelc5]

@Harry Waddington Sense to a Sinful eye when most people in Catholicism don't even bother to read the Bible but spend their time in useless sacraments and man made religiousness, give me a break!

[@einarabelc5]

@@joshf2218 You forgot who also happened to LOVE GOD.

[@einarabelc5]

@Harry Waddington Documents about those "Sacraments"? Which fathers are you talking about? The Romans and pagans who "converted" and got constantly critiqued by Paul or the Apostles who witnessed and died for Christ?

[@einarabelc5]

@Harry Waddington My reply got deleted by a third party, probably the Google monstrosity. Read the Old Testament from Samuel all the way through Job then get back to me and argue. If you don't see the parallels between the Catholic Church throughout history and the State of Judah/Israel and how that gets solved in Job there's not much I can do to help you. Please don't try to straw man me, especially in such a clumsy way. Your question really made me chuckle at the sheer absurdity of it, it really made you look clueless, kinda cute.

[@MIKEDIAMONDZ]

This guy is a real professor...

[@jwt208]

Very confusing and disconnected message. The illustrations really don’t make sense particularly the electrician illustration. I guess confusion happens when you have two competing ideas that you’re trying to shove into the same hole.

[@philcortens5214]

The problem for Protestantism is before their revolution there was no Church other than the Catholic Church (and of course the Orthodox churches that were essentially of the same faith but for the lack of a unifying agent in the Pope). As Newman (another convert from Anglicanism) said, to be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant.

[@auntybiblebeliever887]

Whoever Newman is you quoted leaves out the line of Anabaptist? They weren't RCC.

[@philcortens5214]

@@auntybiblebeliever887 John Henry Cardinal Newman (1801-1890). I'm afraid the rest of your response is coming through garbled.

[@auntybiblebeliever887]

@@philcortens5214 thanks

[@philcortens5214]

@@auntybiblebeliever887 You're welcome?

[@billiamnotbob]

Do you mean the Roman church or the catholic (Universal) Church. There was no Roman Catholic church before Constantine. So, there wasn't a church?? Romanism was NOT the Church in the 1st century.

[@arthurb2005]

Is he going to transition soon

[@andrewisjesus]

Why would God let his gospel be taken and given to the entire world via Rome if we were not supposed to follow Rome's gospel? It makes no sense did Christianity basically diffused from Rome, Eastern Christianity is also summarily rejected by reformed evangelicals. And the whole idea is reading the text literally, but you still follow the same track they do of following the Pagan Greek philosophers and viewing them as the precursor to Christianity, which was the purely Roman and Eastern philosophy on understanding their new religion beyond the point that it came from a Jewish origin. The idea was that Christianity wasn't the Fulfillment of Jewish prophecies, but rather that it was the universal religion of the world. That everyone, all the nations should be converted, but they're not commanded to worship the god of Israel. . People back then had brains just like we do now, and basically people wrestled between believing in a god who's got a physical body, and believing in the cosmic deist Hellenistic God of Socrates. That God is the one that Christians today believe in

[@flavadave3943]

I’m trying to follow along on this, but it’s problematic from the get go. Justification is not salvation. The scripture you are referencing, which talks about justification, has nothing to do with us being saved. It has to do with how we’ve displayed to our neighbors that we are saved and justified our faith.

[@andrewisjesus]

Basically, you got the Christian tradition, with all of its Imperial flaws. Then you have the reform movement which was exploited by Kings because they wanted to not have to answer to the bishop of Rome anymore They also wanted to engage in homosexuality and other types of things that were frowned upon by the church. So you had the Protestant reformers, which were infected with tons of atheist who made a mockery of the Eucharist in order to get people to start looking at things through a materialistic standpoint when weighing the truth of the Bible, and not us instigating the new atheist movement all the way back at the point of the Reformation

[@rockycomet4587]

🤡

[@cnorfolk6]

So nobleman supported Protestantism because they wanted to commit homosexuality? Hmmmmm. I’ve read Catholic polemics before but even that’s a bit far out.

[@matthewbroderick6287]

This is one of those false teachers that Saint Paul warned us about! As a Catholic Christian, I challenge this Fallible Protestant Pastor to a debate on the True Gospel if he is not afraid! He is in my prayers as he journeys toward Truth! Peace always in Jesus Christ our Great and Kind God and Savior, He whose Flesh is true food and Blood true drink

[@bryanwirthlin4444]

At round 0920 he talks about being justified without even any "little mental works." However, isn't accepting the truth of the gospel and committing oneself to a christian life a "mental work?" Even more so if one is reading the writings of great Christian thinkers to come to an understanding and be converted thereby. So, I just don't see how it could be possible to be justified by faith alone, not even a mental work, unless we're going to suggest that all people go to Heaven and nothing in fact needs to be done because you all make the grade.

[@einarabelc5]

Nope, you confused Mental with Spiritual. Read your Bible, the WHOLE thing.

[@bryanwirthlin4444]

@@einarabelc5 By "Whole thing" would we be including the 7 books that Protestants remove, but were actually part of the Biblical cannon when the Catholics compiled the Biblical Corpus in 324 ad at the Council of Laodicea? Those 7 books contain scripture related to Purgatory, praying for the souls of the dead, the idea of Saints, etc. Moreover, what makes you think that I haven't read the whole thing before? In fact, in high school I became an Atheist after doing exactly what you've suggested. I read the whole thing, on my own, cover to cover, with no one to ask questions to or to point out certain ideas. Truly I took a Sola Scriptura approach. After I finished, I concluded that God was a moral monster, if He existed at all, which I doubted because the Biblical stories were so fantastical. I abandoned my Protestant faith and spent 15 years as an Atheist until the Catholic Church's great ancient thinkers like Aquinas, Augustine and Alphonsus as well as modern thinkers like Edward Feser, Trent Horn and Peter Kreeft set me straight. Sola Scriptura, aka Bible Alone, is a dangerous doctrine because as it turns out, the Bible is a very complicated book. It's very easy to read it and walk away with seriously wrong interpretations of the Christian Faith.

[@einarabelc5]

Watching these arguments is like watching ignorant/sinful little children fighting about the same PHYSICAL thing referred with Synonym words about which Synonym is accurate and which is not. How can both sides be so stupid is beyond me except for one thing: PRIDE. If you want to see an example of someone using MENTAL Work to analyze Faith look no further than Jordan Peterson, who COMPLETELY IGNORES Grace, even in the face of his own Wife. There's your PRIME and FOREMOST BRILLIAN EXAMPLE of IDOLATRY of the mind failing at it. Intellect is great but not sufficient.

[@toddcote4904]

Hi Bryan The doctrine of "faith alone" is to categorize justification and sanctification separately. This allows us to clearly see that when we stand before God on the day of Judgement, we realize that there is nothing we can point to (regarding works or intrinsic value) to earn or merit a "not guilty" verdict before Jesus. Similar to a court scene where let's say you're standing before a judge for a DWI and the judge asks "how do you plead?". If you say, "not guilty", "because I have a clean driving record for 25 years", the judge will dismiss those works as irrelevant to the charge at hand, because you are in fact guilty of the DWI charge. A good judge will have to punish your crime "in accordance with the law". God's law is the "soul that sins shall die". God, being a perfect judge, must punish sin righteously since He is righteous. Guilty is our only verdict and death in the outer darkness is the punishment for such a one. Therefore the only way out is to throw yourself at the mercy of the judge and seek His grace, "unmeritted favor", otherwise grace is no longer grace, but a wage earned. Rom 11:6 - And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work. Rom 3:28 - Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from (works) the deeds of the law. (Hence faith alone in regards to justification, not sanctification) Rom 4:4 - Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. Rom 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes (has faith) on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, Again, the category in view here by Paul is justification not sanctification.

[@vibeauxssxuaebiv3489]

@@bryanwirthlin4444 Books that Protestants removed...you mean the apocrypha? The books that even the Catholic church says is historical but is not inspired like the whole of the word of God?

[@3leon306]

Wilson’s knowledge of typology is dangerously feeble … I would suggest Brant Pitre’s book on the Jewish Roots of Mary that properly explains ancient Christianity and why the RCC teaches what it does about Mary. Accurate knowledge of who exactly Christ is implicates exactly who Mary is … example, the virgin birth rejected the heretical challenges posed by Nestorianism and Arianism claiming that Christ was not begotten or consubstantial with Father. Catholics by reciting the Nicene creed during mass essentially remind themselves, “Arius was wrong.”

[@matthewbroderick6287]

Holy Scripture itself refutes the false Gospel of Doug Wilson! Doug preaches another Gospel! I challenge this Fallible Protestant Pastor to a public debate on KZbin regarding the True Gospel if he is not afraid! Doug Wilson, although he preaches a false Gospel, is in my prayers as he journeys toward Truth! Peace always in Jesus Christ our Great and Kind God and Savior, He whose Flesh is true food and Blood true drink

[@kingandpriest4637]

Douglas Wilson uses the terms “human” and “humanity like it’s going out of style; when he does that, he’s calling mankind “ape people”, or referring to “ape peoples” compassion. Nevertheless, there’s no such thing as “human”, never has been, and never will be! Concerning minute 33:07, the menacing question Wilson inferred most modern Evangelicals would have a hard time answering (before 2012); “If a bright Roman Catholic ask any kind of Protestant, Where was your church before the Reformation? The Protestant answer, Under bondage and subjugation to antichrist’ Roman Catholic false church!

[@imafriend1336]

You have to start at Pentecost

[@philcortens5214]

The problem for the Catholic Church is not in its authentic teaching it's in its relatively few wicked members. Take Pope Francis...please!

[@joshuastavos4376]

I would not want to be part of a religion that says its human appointed human leader is infallible and the sole intermediary ( a designator of this authority) for the Almighty and his son on earth. It sounds like Muhammed’s claim about ‘Allah’.

[@philcortens5214]

​@@joshuastavos4376 I think you to need to do a little more study to find out the meaning of infallibility. Meanwhile, "...thou art Peter..." appointed by Christ Himself. I'm not sure where the phrase "sole intermediary" comes from.

[@joshuastavos4376]

@@philcortens5214 if Peter / Simon/ Cephas, a righteous Hebrew Benjamite ( he obeyed Yahweh’s laws and commandments) were alive in the time of Constantine, Justinian, and any point in Vatican history, he would have rejected their man made doctrines which try to replace Yahshua and his father with Rome’s authority. He would denounce and curse them. When Yahshua returns, he will punish the Vatican. They did evil while claiming his authority to do evil , made graven images to bow to, ‘abolished’ the Sabbath, and murdered about one hundred million Christians in its existence who rejected its authority. Today, the Vatican is mixing Islam with Christianity- Crislam. This goes against the Bible.

[@philcortens5214]

@@joshuastavos4376 Historical revisionism writ large. A hundred million Christians? Really? I think you have in mind Godless Communism. God won't punish the Vatican, he'll punish wicked men in or out of the Vatican. I hold no brief for what wicked modern man is doing while claiming to be Catholic.

[@MichaelCXSullivan]

Where is the Covenant analysis?!? These debates are so broken because they frame justification outside of covenant-making. What does ALL the bible say about Covenants?!? Yeesh.

[@einarabelc5]

Simple, they're IMPOSSIBLE to follow except for Christ. Why does that even need to be said? I'm REALLY curious.

[@bryanwirthlin4444]

Also, around 1610, Douglas is confused about "not guilty verdicts not needing anything more." God does not say that we are "not guilty." God says, "You are all guilty of unimaginable sin, however, in my Mercy I will withhold Justice." These are very different states. If you are in fact guilty, but your judge withholds justice, ought you to make amends for your wrong doing? Yes. If you were truly sorry for your crimes and had been spared justice, might you behave differently going forward? Yes. Would it be reasonable for your judge to expect certain to your behavior and deeds from you if you are in fact repentant? Yes. So, works are the means by which we demonstrate our faith, knowing our guilt and rejoicing that we have been spared our proper punishment. We're not innocent. None of us are and I think Douglas has that confused. God does not say we're clean at the moment of our acceptance of Christ. He says, "You are guilty, but I forgive you." Quite different.

[@einarabelc5]

So if that's the case, why did your "Crusaders" killed so many Orthodox? Because it seems you both agree on everything. Oh wait, you were already killing each other in Western Europe. And so did the Protestant states, so what's the point of this fight again? To see who's "mOAR" justified, is depressing.

[@ggturner13]

Doug Wilson is very confused.pray for him.

[@scootergreen3]

The Catholic church is a facade, behind the facade is a business. Huge money-making business and is about control and fear.

[@bridgefin]

Have you looked at their income statement lately? There is no factual support for your claim.

[@scootergreen3]

@@bridgefin I didn't say the priest's I said the church is filthy rich.

[@bridgefin]

@@scootergreen3 And I asked you for evidence, for example the church's income statement. I said nothing about priests.

[@bridgefin]

@@scootergreen3 The Vatican financial statements are public record. Sorry but nothing you mentioned proves your claim. What evidence did you use to make the claim? Sounds like yours was just a rant with nothing of substance. We are pretty used to those.

[@scootergreen3]

@@bridgefin Oh, really, where can I see the Vatican's financial statements?

[@matthewbroderick6287]

As a Catholic Christian, I challenge this false teacher to a public debate on KZbin regarding the True Gospel if he is not afraid! Holy Scripture teaches we must cooperate with God's saving grace and repent and bear fruit and forgive others and love one another and persevere to the end to be saved! He is in my prayers as he journeys toward Truth! Peace always in Jesus Christ our Great and Kind God and Savior, He whose Flesh is true food and Blood true drink

[@peterhansen2781]

Ephesians 2 makes it pretty clear my works, response to God's grace though they may be, are incapable of saving me.

[@matthewbroderick6287]

@@peterhansen2781John 15:2 and Romans 2:6-8,9, and Matthew 25:35-42. John 5:29, Matthew 16:27, 1 Peter 1:17, also makes it very clear my friend that faith alone dies not save! Peace always in Jesus Christ our Great and Kind God and Savior, He whose Flesh is true food and Blood true drink

[@cnorfolk6]

Mr Broderick, surely one of your bishops, you know, the so-called “successors to the apostles”(TM), can do this? You have no authority to speak on behalf of Romanism 😊 get Francis to issue an encyclical or something

[@matthewbroderick6287]

@@cnorfolk6 True, no one knows the True Gospel, as Scripture ALONE is infallible!🤣 As the man made tradition goes anyway! Peace always in Jesus Christ our Great and Kind God and Savior, He whose Flesh is true food and Blood true drink

[@cnorfolk6]

@@matthewbroderick6287 What are you - 16? The Gospel is well known,and well, yes the Catholic Church also teaches the Bible is infallible - fool. Why are you laughing at people who agree with your church on this point?

[@matthewblock7779]

Sola Fide and Sola Scriptura are not biblical. When Christ ascended into Heaven, he did not toss down the bible and told the Apostles to follow it. He left it up to the Apostles to teach, baptize, convert and establish his Church. Protestants can't accept that their beliefs do not follow Christ's commission.

[@NexMurtceps]

I'm not judging you but your opinion is highly irrelevant. Christ speaks upon the authority of the Father in order for the apostles to write the teachings. Though to my fellow brother in Christ, your statement of "He did not toss down the bible and told the apostles to follow it" is mainly the reason of your irrelevance. The Bible especially the New Testament, is heavily and mainly influenced by Christ. Scriptures consists of teachings of Christ of then was written down by the apostles. In 2 Timothy 3:16, Paul specifically addressed that "All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness." We protestants settle upon this very scripture for truth. And of what particular reason would you assume that we protestants doesn't follow Christ's commission when we follow Christ's sole teachings mainly given by the apostles? Though I would certainly agree that Christ left his teachings to the apostles in order to teach, baptize, convert, and establish the church, but it a matter to teaching, there's always correction. Galatians 1:6-9 "I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel- not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed." Humble yourself my dear brother of Christ, for we only speak upon the scriptures and God's authority.

[@InhabitantOfOddworld]

@@NexMurtceps The problem is you (i.e. all the protties and reformers) imply that *only* scripture has the infallibility of God But let me ask you this; Various archeologists and historians date the gospels to several years after the crucifixion. The earliest, Mark, is said to be penned around AD 50 at the earliest, AD 70 at the latest. So a 20 year span that is still, at best, 20 years after the Crucifixion. So what do you think the apostles relied on prior to those writings? Memory and word of mouth. And that's what they'd have used to write the scriptures. So if the scriptures are infallible and the writers (either apostles themselves or a third party) used recollections and word of mouth to author those scriptures, then it stands to logical reason that those memories and sayings were also infallible. Therefore the idea that scripture alone is reliable and infallible is self-refuted by the circumstances in which those scriptures were written anyway. Paul didn't just write to the Romans and Galatians and Thessalonians, he also preached to them. Orated to them. Spoke to them. Means of exchanging information beyond the written word. So yeah I'm sorry but I don't find the reformist argument persuasive. The early church didn't rely on scripture alone so it's very silly to argue, assume, or imply that scripture is the only valid method.

[@NexMurtceps]

@@InhabitantOfOddworld I am quite interested upon your humble reply to my statements, but I would like to have my rebuttal. The means of a specific year of history is Irrelevant for we are talking generally about the movements of the Catholic church and not the movements of the early church during the time of the apostles. It's pretty much genuine that the early church never followed a specific doctrine for they were governed and being lead by the founding disciples of Christ. So contrary to scriptures, there are no scriptures to follow, yet much better, they have an apostle and a disciple to admire and follow. Upon the general Christian doctrine, if the words and mouth upon the apostles acted as genuine witnesses upon the days of Christ, then the scriptures are deemed reliable and true. The scriptures of the New Testament are what's left of our old apostles today and if by means someone would change that traditional sound doctrine, it would undergo certain testings and rebuke. For the scripture commands it. Contrary to the sound doctrine, sola scriptura means of by scripture alone, so we critically follow what the ancient scriptures of the old apostles had written. And of by means of correction, if that tradition of a specific church cruelly contradicts the scriptures, then we would simply correct the church. That's it. But I know, it's really so silly to argue to be honest, that's why I'm ending my argument here. Have a great day my fellow brother in Christ. ❤️

[@InhabitantOfOddworld]

@@NexMurtceps I would agree that scripture exists as a check and balance on church doctrine, but I would add that rather than being a one-way street, the two relate to each other in a feedback loop That is, yes scripture acts as a lens to analyse church doctrine, but doctrine equally acts as a lens in which to analyse scripture After all, it was various ecumenical councils that determined the content of the bible. Some books were deemed gospels, others were not. Some books were included and others removed. And since the reformists inherited that Cath-odox approved content, I'm under the presumption that reformists approve of the means by which valid scripture was determined But in the very act of doing so, they lend credence to extra-biblical means of adjudication. After all, the Bible could not audit itself. It's content was adjudicated by external sources. Therefore the history of the scriptures themselves logically necessitates the existence of an infallible or otherwise divinely inspired standard of proof. One could say that's the influence of God Himself, be it the Son, the Father, or the Holy Spirit. Others may say it's the grace of church fathers that granted them a certain degree of divine sensibility that they could infallibly audit said Bible. But either way, I'm afraid to say that since extra-biblical infallibility is a logical necessity in the formation of the Bible, sola scriptura doesn't persuade me. I hope this is useful food for thought. Christ be with you.

[@NexMurtceps]

@@InhabitantOfOddworld I learned quite Great things thanks to you! May Christ be with you as well. ❤️

[@missthunderstormable]

I find that Calvinists are not very good theologians. In general they also do not believe in gifts of the Spirit. Calvinists could never convert the world or start revival! Every ecumenically minded Christian, will be very mild towards Catholic church, basically double minded, sucking up to them. He found time to praise Chesterton who converted to Catholicism, how blind can you be to do that!

[@gch8810]

The irony in your statement is too funny because some of the best and greatest theologians the church has ever seen have all been Reformed. The Reformed theologians are the guys who will write whole books exegeting and expositing a single verse of the Bible.

[@missthunderstormable]

@@gch8810 Calvin yes, but not calvinists lol