The First Yandere and the "Transformation" of the Genre! - Gaijin Goombah

[@kaimagnus5760]

Yanderes are like Tsunderes. They're only endearing in the show because you, as the audience, can see their thoughts and viewpoint. IRL Yanderes would be viewed as unhinged stalkers and Tsunderes as insufferable bullies. Both prime examples of how perspective shifts an opinion.

[@KlausiboyZ]

Agreed. But it's still worth noting that while the real life equivalents would be literally insane, it's okay to see the appeal of them in fiction, as long as you're able to realise the difference

[@Bionickpunk]

Would hate both in real life, and to be honest, dont like them much in anime as well.

[@yukiotacon2846]

Finally, someone calls out Tsunderes for what they are. I swear I hate shows that have Tsundere beat the crap out of the Mcs

[@nitesy381]

"how can I love someone who is not as mentally ill as me" -an anon from 4chan

[@Kuudere-Kun]

Tsundere's are normal people, when you go back to 90s Anme you'll realize the character acting like Tsunderes are the main protagonists of Shoujo Anime.

[@BlackfootFerret]

There's a fine line between passion and obsession. Sadly, it's hard for the Yandere themselves to view their own situation objectively.

[@EfrainMan]

Yeh, all you have to do is think about your friends and coworkers that might be in danger from the yandere's obsession and that's enough to realize it's prob not a good thing lol. OTOH, if you got no one else, it might still be appealing.

[@Cerebrum123]

@@EfrainMan I experienced a mild version of an obsessive yandere type at a young age. It has scarred me for life and while I have had no romantic relationships, I would rather have none for the remainder of my life than go through something like it again.

[@GaijinGoombah]

Playing a bit of devils advocate in this very, very late valentines day video. Before people @ me about how yandere are in the wrong. They are! 100%. I just wanted to have a look at the arguments made by fans of the trope and I understand where they are coming from!

[@peternguyen7530]

I can get behind your explanation behind the attraction of yanderes. Maybe my avoidance of yanderes are because when I think of the trope, I think of the psychopathic and toxic desire to keep their target to themselves, like Yuno Gasai, who is willing to kill her AU counterpart and Yuki's mother, just because she feared the latter might not approve their relationship. Now, I can stomach a yandere who has self control, but I avoid the psychopathic yanderes since they're the antithesis to how I view a healthy, wholesome, yet equally desired relationship; two lovers who genuinely treat each other like they are special. I can respect those who like yanderes as individuals, just not my cup of tea, personally.

[@akirayamaguchithekitsune4010]

well I see Marinette was a PG Yandere in season 1-3 of Miraculous

[@aliastheabnormal]

At least Kiyo made for an amazing housewife according to FGO.

[@KlausiboyZ]

I think it's a shame that people can't discuss a hypothetical topic from multiple perspectives without having to put down some disclaimer. You can discuss a topic, even be positive about the topic while still recognizing the negative aspects, and be objective and neutral. People shouldn't be lynching others just for being informative

[@anythingyoucando1546]

In this explanation it seems very similar to a few key points of, "a knight in shining armour." I can understand the devotion aspect of both.

[@justinn8541akaDrPokemon]

Yukako Yamagishi: I'm the first yandere. Annie Wilkes(Yukako's inspiration): No I am. Kiyohime: Fools

[@aliastheabnormal]

Char: No, you're all copying me!

[@nobafan7515]

Kiyohime makes a lot of sense in fgo now, since one scene has someone tell the player to not lie to kiyohime while she obsesses over you.

[@ChannelCzarovski]

yukako great tho. she got her short king in the end

[@domingosjunior6805]

Yukako is not even the First anime Yandere...Rumiko Takahashi's Laughing Target

[@justinn8541akaDrPokemon]

@@domingosjunior6805 First modern yandere then. The one who popularized the concept then.

[@joserodiles212]

My wife once told me that difference between calling loving acts as romantic vs creepy is whether or not the love is reciprocated

[@Ramsey276one]

YES

[@ALJ9000]

Hmm… seems a tiny bit hypocritical to me, but then again I do think critically of these sorts of things anyway

[@SergioLeonardoCornejo]

I've noticed most people who like yandere characters want someone who will stay loyal to them. It's not the negative aspects that make them popular. It's the loyalty. The sad part is that's a sign of overcompensating for something they have been unable to find. They fantasize about a loyalty that doesn't seem available in their proximity.

[@magmat0585]

which is fair, considering that in the US at least, divorce in marriage is around 50%, and women get preferential treatment in the legal system when it comes to divorce, especially with kids involved. This leads to women usually being the ones pushing for divorce because for them there's usually little to no downside unless they're obscenely rich compared to the husband. There are definitely some women who play the system. Add on to that what guys consider loyalty and women consider loyalty are not the same, and that statistically roughly the bottom 3rd of men could be considered softlocked out of relationships (height, looks, lack of money or social graces, usually a combination of these) and you get a lot of guys disillusioned with marriage or any sort of long term commitment. Not saying that there aren't good women out there, or that there aren't bad guys, but there's a lot of reasons for a guy to value loyalty above all else

[@inacatt]

​@@magmat0585Buddy, this legit sounds like incel talking points. /srs /gen Divorce's top causes are a lack of compatability, communication issues, financial issues, etc. Also the reason women often initate divorce is abuse of varying forms.

[@magmat0585]

​@@inacatt what part of what I said is untrue or exclusive to what you said? Abuse is cited as a factor in roughly 1/4 of divorces, but that's both men and women citing it, and physical abuse is also actually fairly equal when it comes to gender, the difference is men are more likely to be charged and less likely to be believed.

[@blairdurward4324]

I feel personally attacked…

[@SergioLeonardoCornejo]

@@blairdurward4324 you should feel infuriated since the reason you can't find that loyalty irl is because society is wrong. Loyalty is scarce.

[@BolasMinion]

Fun fact: Yukako, user of the Stand Love Deluxe, was the first yandere in modern manga

[@justinn8541akaDrPokemon]

And she's still one of the best written one(Palm from Hunter X Hunter being a close second for me and Anasui being thrid).

[@berandom2000]

Off-topic here but I think that Berry from Foster Home For Imaginary Friends might be the first yandere character in western animation tbh.

[@עומרשרייבר-ל4ר]

Really? Oh damn.

[@Thetreng]

​@@justinn8541akaDrPokemon Palm was specifically inspired by Yukako

[@justinn8541akaDrPokemon]

@@Thetreng Yes true. That's why she's one of the best yanderes.

[@JadeFalcon07]

There is a big difference between devotion and obsession. Devotion is the ability to set your personal goals aside for the betterment of the other person. Obsession is driven solely by personal desires in spite of the desire of the other person.

[@withercat]

As someone obsessed with yanderes as a teenager, I want to mention why yanderes were so appealing to me. When you're an incredibly lonely kid with no friends and are often bullied, the thought of someone who cares about you so so so much they'd never betray you or leave you alone can be really really nice. It's comforting even to imagine someone who actually genuinely cares about you, who wants to be around you to the point of cutting out anyone else. Like you know it's bad in reality, but in fiction? it's a lot like a warm blanket. For someone to imagine themselves as so loved, and so cherished when they aren't in real life it can help you get through the day. As I grew up I became more interested in the psychological horror aspects of it, but as a kid? I just wanted someone who'd stick by me no matter what, someone who would keep away the bullies and cruelty of reality, and that made yanderes the perfect wish fulfillment for me. It's nice to be wanted when you feel like no one does, and if yanderes can do one thing, boy is it want.

[@Dante999000]

You and me both bro.

[@solidskullz5736]

Of all the tropes you see in anime these days the yandere was the last one that I expected to have literal hundreds of years worth of history. But hey if it worked back then it makes sense that it still works now

[@aa-yt7wo]

Next video we will find out that Mecha has hundreds of years of history in Japan

[@KraNisOG]

@@aa-yt7wo I mean, the Romans had stories about people living on Mars, so I wouldn't be surprised if Japan had mecha stories.

[@Ace20A]

Wait till you learn about Murasaki Shikibu and how she’s basically the first harem romance author.

[@Pikaman20008]

I also feel like for a lot of guys, the idea of having a SO where you don’t have to question their loyalty or wonder if they truly do love you or are merely with you out of convenience is refreshing.

[@lord_boneman]

Ah yes, Kiyohime. Only knew her through Fate/Grand Order, so glad to see more about her.

[@jpichardostitch8806]

Took me a second to remember hearing the name and place our most dangerous, fan from Fate. I didn't think her tale was of being the first Yandere

[@nkyfong]

Same here. How could I have forgotten this?

[@ImperialWill421]

"Why even bring it up?" Some people love History~! Thank you for the video, Goombah~! ^_^/

[@john_tgb4457]

I personally haven't seen that much yandere stuff, but to me, it's a bit sad. Like, that obsessiveness has to come from somewhere, right? Maybe they got rejected in the past, or maybe their home life isn't good, but something happened that makes them think "this person I'm with MUST stay with me." If things go wrong, well like Gaijin talked about the story of Kiyohime, it won't end well.

[@Wolf-oc6tx]

Yanderes are a trope best suited to tragic and horrifying stories rather then cheerful ones.

[@mrsejanoz523]

Yanderes don't scare me - Yandere Dev, on the other hand...

[@christianfarren1179]

I know context is for the weak, but I gotta know…who and/or what *is* Yandere Dev?

[@aureliodeprimus8018]

@@christianfarren1179 Basically he worked for years on a game called "Yandere Simulator", where you play a Yandere trying to get their Senpais attention by "removing" competition. However over the years it came out that he is basically a huge creep.....

[@johnny_boi5456]

Uh oh

[@inacatt]

​@@christianfarren1179TL;DR: He's a predator.

[@christianfarren1179]

@@aureliodeprimus8018 Unfortunately that explains a lot.

[@shadowscribe]

I'd say the desirable quality people want is glossing over a truism in most takes of yandere, including the story you gave, the desire is *NOT* mutual. This is less about the lengths your committed partner will go to keep you and more an outsider will go to make you theirs. This isn't Romeo and Juliet, this is fans who stalk and men who won't take no for an answer.

[@aliastheabnormal]

This is because they never met a crazy stalker yandere in real life like i have.

[@Dante999000]

True for people who has loyal friends and family but for the rest who has nobody to turn to even their own family, someone loyal and honest is a lot better to have than risk losing everything on a cheater and a gold-digger.

[@zerosyaoran]

Funny you bring up the story of Kiyohime because Fate/Grand Order has her as a playable Servant. A Berserker class, appropriately enough, who always attacks with fire and her Noble Phantasm has her turn into a fire monster that cooks the enemy alive, just like in her tale. She's pretty much the yandere as you'd expect, except that she sees you as Anchin. But the difference here is that because you're nice to her, she kind of mellows out. She's still does the typical yandere things, like stalk you in your bedroom and all that, but she actually gets along with some of the Servants in your team(who are funnily enough, also yanderes to some extent). She's even penpals with Tamamo no Mae. It's no surprise that she was one of the more popular characters when the game first launched.

[@jpichardostitch8806]

The fact the bell NP is in her summer/lancer class, than her normal berserk is the dragon.

[@zerosyaoran]

@@jpichardostitch8806 And her Summer Lancer version also has her fight with a naginata, just like how a devoted wife would. It's so cute and well thought-out.

[@hypercube8735]

The playable character in FGO basically has a superpower of being able to do that to *anyone* by accepting them, no matter how awful they are. Fate also adds the additional twist that not only was Anchin a celibate monk like in the original story, but he was also a gay man on top of that. Kiyohime never had a chance with the guy.

[@Pokemaster-wg9gx]

its less that she sees Ritsuka as Anchin and more that any man she's obsessed with is Anchin like someone operating a forklift is a forklift operator Fate has lots of conceptual or name based shenanigans like that, including Medb/Maeve/Mab being weak to Cheese because the way queen medb died

[@mollywantshugs5944]

The main thing that stands out to me about yandere is how often yandere don’t seem to care about consent at all and that’s really unnerving. That’s not love; that’s possessiveness

[@dragonsswarm1987]

The way I see it, Yanderes are a sweet poison. No matter how delicious their love might be in the moment, it's not worth being with someone who might put you in a cage or kill you if it means that they can keep you forever.

[@bobalinx8762]

The earliest manga yandere I know of is JoJo’s Yukako.

[@justinn8541akaDrPokemon]

A cool twist on a Yandere would be someone who's devoted to their group and is honestly happy as long as they are happy. And it slowly goes from a man to his pet relationship to an actual friendship.

[@Ramsey276one]

You just gave me a different inspiration Season 1: Team Healer Season 2: Promoted to Main Team Support Season 3: Prestiged to Red Mage Season 4: Becomes Balenorn ("Good LICH") Title: We'll Make It Through This ... *TOGETHER*

[@thehonoredone2361]

Kiyohime is like "My obsession and stalking lvl is over 9000". Also a part of me is surprised you haven't done a video on Thunderbolt fantasy yet.

[@SlapstickGenius23]

Let’s include its parent Pili show from Taiwan. It has a ton of awesome villains, flashy ambiguous characters, and beautiful muscular heroes.

[@Double_D__]

I'm sorry, I just can't get past the idea that this person would go as far as physical assault or downright murder for me; that doesn't communicate to me that the person is devoted to me, wants to make me feel special and desired, it tells me they see the world nothing more than an obstacle to their own maniacal obsession. At that point, they aren't actually in love with you; they're in love with the idea of *_owning or possessing_* you. You aren't a person, another being with thoughts, feelings, and a mind of your own, you become an object to fixate on, this one piece that they think will make them better or give them love in return. No healthy, loving relationship is like that; it tells me this person isn't just wildly out of control with their emotions, but also they're so insecure, vengeful, and downright deluded to the point where everyone is out to get their 'destined' love. It's the same energy as someone not taking 'no' for an answer on a much more horrifying and dangerous scale. It's all about the Yandere, not the relationship itself.

[@cosmicsilhouette3858]

Most psychopaths are that way.

[@Dante999000]

For some of you, yes that's true; but for the rest of us including myself, having someone loyal and honest, regardless whether they're yandere or not, is much better than having someone who would cheat and steal everything you worked hard to earn.

[@zacharybartolo5111]

I would suggest reading a little comic called Stalker x Stalker where it’s both a boy and girl yandere who like each other and date each other, while also threatening anyone who gets close to the other. I think it’s a funny little comic, especially when you get to know the girl’s family.

[@TheCursedProsecutor]

Obsession is a word for it. Kiyohime in FGO literally sends herself to your present box on completion of one of the story chapters because she sees you as Anchin.

[@nkyfong]

Don't forget the Valentine's Day chocolate laced with a... Suspicious purple liquid that may be used to incapacitate you. Or the Lancer version where she writes "I love you" over and over in the sand of a beach. Of the ENTIRE beach.

[@Ryu_D]

Some people would see this and say "I can fix her", while people like me would say, "I would accept her." She's not broken, she just needs love. It can get to the point where it's irreversibly toxic (chaining up their loved one and not letting them live outside of their control no matter what they say), but in most cases, the yandere would be willing to compromise as much as their loved one does. It requires strong communication and hard set boundaries, but as long as the yandere's loved one is willing to make absolutely clear that they are committed to their yandere, reject any romantic advances from anyone else, clarify any misunderstandings as quickly and effectively as possible, and give their yandere the affection they require, it's a relationship that can work. The situation with Yanderes is just like how many people are sick of dense protagonists ignoring their love interests, but with even harsher results.

[@KristopherDorsey-rq8ek]

Straight up facts across the board

[@xLoLRaven]

Kiyohime! Hah, I'm slightly smug that I guessed who you would be talking about! Once again, thank you Fate/Grand Order for teaching me more about history than my school ever did...

[@Jinx6670]

my thoughts on this is... I can understand why people find them attractive, however they're also ignoring the risk to any loved ones you may already have such as siblings or parents or aunts uncles and cousins. If a Yandere sees them as a risk or thinks they may be taking your love from them then they are in danger. So while I enjoy seeing the trope in anime and manga I would never want one in real life.

[@tahamoukhliss8420]

You said first Yandere and "Transformation" And I was like: definitely Kiyohime

[@theinfrnoblazer]

For me, it's the loyalty. Specifically, it's the statistics obliterating loyalty. One which stands in defiance to current reality in dating, marriage, and finding love. A yandere girl, in the most genuine sense of the term, is a fantasy

[@dracone4370]

I would like to see, at some point in the future, a video of how Ninja the Phantom really is; The Phantom actually predates Batman, seeing as his first comic was published by Lee Falk all the way back in February of 1937, and Batman has actually adopted several of The Phantom's aspects. Also, it could be fun to see a comparison of some Cat Yokai and European Fairy Cats (like the Cat Sidhe, literally translated to Fairy Cat from Irish folklore). It could be fun to see a comparison of similar creatures between cultures that had next to no contact with each other until it happened more recently in the modern era.

[@Ravensgale]

**Me being an FGO player with a Lv 100 Max Bonded Kiyohime in my Chaldea** "Why does my shoulder suddenly feel uncomfortably warm all of the sudden?"

[@nkyfong]

RUN ANCHIN RUN

[@Sovreign071]

I think it can be a two edged sword. On one hand, haveing a woman "fight" for me or my affection feels empowering. But on the other hand, her putt8ng me on a pedestal feels like a massive amount of pressure, like she's in love with an image of me that I can't amount to. That said, Yandere is a trope for a reason. It can be utilized in so many different ways, and using blanket terms of "good" or "bad" don't really do it service.

[@SonicFrake]

Sure a relationship with a yandere could be sweet and endearing if you return her affection but what about the light novels and eroge that feature whole harems of yanderes? There's no stopping the yandere's negative aspects from taking over when two or more of them compete. You got to be as crazy as them to be into that.

[@Pikaman20008]

I used to find Yanderes attractive because I had low self esteem. Now I find Yanderes attractive cuz I’m sick of wasting my time on girls that just don’t care about me like I do for them. It’s a vicious cycle :p

[@TalesofDawnandDusk]

As someone who translates Heian period stories myself, I'm curious to know where one can find the original text for this story so I can dig into the Classical Japanese and see what I can find.

[@hsumi1]

Kiyohime is depicted as a half-snake monster in Onmyoji, and she carries Anjin's skull around with her.

[@dandrive3249]

Personally, my favorite version of Anchin and Kiyohime is that Anchin was a monk who resided in Kiyohime home for the winter and slowly they fell in love. While both loved each other's company Anchin still had a duty to uphold as a Buddhist monk and wanted to avoid attachment. So he fled to the ferryman hoping to spare Kiyohime feelings. Kiyohime noticed he was gone and swam after him turning into a dragon and you know the rest. I like this version of the story cause their response to rejection and love are polar opposites. Anchin is cold and unwilling to work for love while Kiyohime is extremely passionate and would swim up a river to be with Anchin. Both approaches are bad but there usually caused by one another. On my take with Yandere since you asked, I believe love is something that needs to be worked on and maintained. It's not just a night of passion and then you're in love forever like in the movies. It's a process and I think that reality shines well with the trope. I don't think people want a lover who's willing to kill others, but more so want someone who makes them feel special and also puts in the work to love their significant other. It's not something expressed in a lot of media and I think it is cathartic to see, even if it is very extreme.

[@c.a.mcdivitt9722]

I will add that most Yanderes would not be nearly as dangerous without a number of other traits that could otherwise be seen as positive. Stealth. Dexterity. Cunning. Creativity.

[@mangamanzx]

Honestly, I've done my own research on this topic and honestly while comparing a Yandere's obsession to the level of obsessive love in Romeo and Juliet can be valid, in my research I've found that the story of Kiyohime is actually closer to an example of a different type of story, "the woman scorned" as in "hell hath no fury like a Woman scorned" Basically a Yandere's devotion isn't the bad part, it's the insanity and dangerous obsession driven by the fact that the love isn't reciprocated by by the other party, the reason why the versions of Kiyohime where Anchin is leading her on is so popular is likely because a yandere is a great way to tell a classic moral, don't lie, don't try and lead someone on, and don't make promises you don't intend to keep, a cautionary tale that many other stories tout as well, being a universal plot around the world. Under this context, Yandere fans are subconsiously picking up on a detail that is intrinsic to a Yandere's very characterization... a Yandere whose love is returned isn't a Yandere. She's a clingy, kinda crazy girlfriend, something that other waifu archetypes can totally be with no problem... a Tsundere who has defrosted to her "dere dere" point can be just as clingy as a yandere as can a Yamato Nadeshiko childhood friend character... and importantly a character who isn't a yandere can totally become one through the plot by simply being allowed to stew in her affection while not having her feelings and desires be addressed by the object of her affection. A yandere is a cautionary tale, communicate with the other people in your life and try to be mindful of not leading others on even accidentally, as failing to do so will end badly.

[@leonardosephas4757]

I can't, someone who goes crazy with irrational violence because of love would be incapable of having a healthy relationship even if their feelings were reciprocated. he or she would be unable to trust that you weren't going to do something to someone else in the work environment, for example. So you would have to fix this character deviation to have a healthy relationship but then he/she wouldn't be a yandere anymore.

[@commonviewer2488]

People who _want_ yandere are codependent. It's not love, it's obsession.

[@lordkiller2298]

as someone who has dated one i would say it depends, mine was a total c-word and i couldnt trust her since she basically tried to keep me all to herself and i couldnt even talk to my friends without her tryan keep em away from me, it wast a good realtionships due to her going too far

[@nkyfong]

So, the worst possible scenario.

[@lordkiller2298]

@@nkyfong basically yeah, never date crazy when crazy is at the peak of crazy

[@f.a.santiago1053]

COMPLETELY unrelated... but seeing you in Game Theory's latest Tank episode almost made me cry. Your genuine excitement, the fact that the two of you were together again after, what, 6 years? It was genuinely beautiful to watch. People appreciate you, man. Godspeed!

[@archivesEris]

Another absolutely amazing video! I just wanted to share my thoughts as a queer woman (trans + lesbian) who, admittedly, enjoys this trope as a bit of a guilty pleasure. From a queer perspective the line, "What's crazy is a world that refuses to let me be with you," hits uncomfortably hard. The concept of someone willing to go to any lengths to protect the one they love, and the love itself, is undeniably alluring- and even when taken to illogical extremes the core motivation resonates with me. And, as you said, pretty much everyone wants a significant other who makes them feel special; as a trans woman in the early stages of her transition that goes doubly so for me- in my experience, feeling like you're "trapped in the wrong body" makes one especially susceptible to an SO who will fawn over you anyway. That's not to say I don't recognize the unhealthy extreme the Yandere trope represents. Yet, on some level, the burning core- a fierce, undying love and loyalty- is desirable, I'd even go so far as to say it's strangely beautiful. In the same way that a roaring campfire is a source of beauty and warmth while still being dangerous, the yandere lives in that bubble of alluring yet terrifying. Aaaand there's also the "I can fix her" aspect of things, that fantasy of being the one whose "true love" helps the yandere find healthier ways of expressing her emotions and ultimately becoming a better partner while not losing the white-hot passion underpinning the relationship. But that's not unique to Yandere, whereas the rest of the stuff above are things that I really don't get from a lot of other tropes, in Eastern OR Western media. At least not all in one package like the Yandere does.

[@pinkkrystalz7610]

As a Heteroromantic Asexual woman, you're just chronically online and it seems like you need help. 🙄

[@FoggyFogzmeister]

As someone who has always loved the yandere trope, you've explained why I've always loved in such a succinct, comprehensive and fun way. You're the man Gaijin. Every video you make is a delight. Look forward to your next one.

[@BrotherRoga]

There's a problem with the trope; When the target is oblivious to their feelings, the yandere is prone to causing problems to both herself and everyone around the target due to seeing potential rivals, real or imagined, that make her less desireable if the target actually was aware. Furthermore, if rejected by the target, there's usually 2 scenarios. 1. The yandere ignores this blatant rejection and is too obsessed with their own feelings towards the target to give a crap about the target's own feelings. At that point it's not love or anything like it. That's just fucked up. 2. The yandere realizes that what they wanted has told them they do not want them, which leads to heartbreak that then leads to suffering for *everybody* around them. If the target loves someone else, that love interest ends up dead. Or the target themselves might end up dead. Or both! There's almost never any healthy end results. I feel like the issue is that there is an (ironically) obsessive amount of emphasis placed on the yanderu part of yandere tropes, rather than the dere. It just leads to characters that are not desireable even if they loved you. Unless you were insane yourself.

[@Sawtooth44]

ahhh as soon as i heard the name i instantly knew who it was i just dident realise how OLD her story was THANK YOU FGO for giving me at least the bare bones of many legends throughout the world

[@craytherlaygaming2852]

Whats funny is that, I had a phase in my life where I had a odd fixation on Yanderes, so I did get the appeal, but I always knew subconsciously that it was only attractive in fiction. The passion and devotion is what is attractive... not the murder... Ironically, I think the first paring in Japanese media that actually made me want to see it be canon is that sweetspot of, passion and devotion for love, without the toxic murderous tendencies. Othinus and Touma's relationship may have started badly, as they were enemies, but they developed into a way where, both could technically be considered yandere for eachother. If one or the other were to die, the world would be destroyed in the resulting rampage, that is what is implied. But the two hold no insecurities about each other, and support each other desiring to see their partner happy, even if that involves giving up their own place beside them. They are certainly possessive of eachother yes, but they aren't murderous towards other's merely protective when it comes to those they don't know the intentions of. It's a complex relationship, and on first glance it may seem toxic, but when you get down to it, it's the single most healthy relationship in the series for one simple reason. Communication They are understanders, so they cannot feel insecure about eachother, nor have preconceptions about the other, or misinterpret the other's actions or words. They support eahcother fully, and do what is needed to ensure eachother's happiness, even if that involves scrapping their plans then and there because it upset their partner.

[@Caterfree10]

Hmmm, while my darkfic love is rarely for yanderes in specific, I can kind of get why obsessive love can be appealing in fiction. My favorite darkfic tends to be, say, how Sephiroth seems to crave Cloud in much of the Remake trilogy so far, or how the Phantom in Phantom of the Opera is towards Christine. And for those of us who haven’t ever felt wanted in irl relationships, sometimes an obsessive desire in a fictional space is a way to explore feeling wanted. Yes it’s heightened way more than would be acceptable irl, but there’s something appealing abt someone who deeply wants you. And also, fiction is, ime, a heightened reflection of irl. Like, I get it. And also, I can like fucked up things in fiction while disapproving of them irl so. :p

[@GreyWolfLeaderTW]

Yandere as a concept does have direct observable basis in human psychology, particularly as seen in modern psychology. Specifically what is called borderline personality disorder. Traits observed in people with the condition include extreme and risky behavior in order to cultivate desired emotions that otherwise do not come easily to them, obsessive behavior for things or people they become infatuated with, difficulty in managing and controlling emotions and (this is where the "borderline" descriptor comes in) a high likelihood that their feelings and attachments to their obsessions invert and become hatreds and prejudices. Oh yeah, by the way: guys, bad idea to start a relationship with someone who displays these traits. The obsessive nature of their infatuation becomes an intense and life-destroying hatred if and when their personality flips. Just ask Johnny Depp and his relationship with Amber Heard (who shows all the signs of suffering from the condition).

[@dingdud6602]

It’s just because they’re physically hot and the guys who love them are masochists, not necessarily for physical pain but at least for the fear and emotional pain. How do I know? If you made a yandere who was ugly these fans would see nothing but the horror of the situation.

[@Cerebrum123]

While incredibly mild compared to most yandere, I know what it is like to be chased by someone you don't like who obsessed with you to an insane degree. While I understand where you are coming from, I can't agree. Devotion and obsession are different. The former is good for both parties to have in a relationship, the latter is bad for both. They can certainly look similar, and the line between the two isn't always clear, but you will feel that difference very quickly unless you are equally controlled by obsession.

[@emanuelrojas2]

We need an anime where there's a guy with low self esteem and yandere girl and talk about one's self worth.

[@SWATDRUMMUH]

Hey Gaijin, I've been wondering: why are western media orcs (or orks as they're sometimes spelled) depicted as more gorilla/beast-like while in more eastern media orcs are depicted as pigs/boars? I've been trying to look it up myself, but I keep running into to orcs of Tolkien's Middle Earth and how they're different. Any thoughts or input about this? You don't have to make a video about it, it's just something that's been bugging me comparing monsters from west to east.

[@AschaVovina]

IIRC it has to do with a lot of medieval European fantasy media in Japan drawing inspiration from the first edition of _Advanced Dungeons & Dragons_ - which portrayed orcs as having pig-like features.

[@yojimarusilverfang]

While I can understand the prospective of finding such... "devotion" attractive, you can definitely tell that the people that like Yandere characters for that reason have never had the "pleasure" of having a stalker.

[@KSeigY]

I'd say that, for me, the appeal of a yandere is directly related to her motivations, and what it would mean to be on the receiving end of their affection. FGO's rendition of Kiyohime wants the relationship to be defined by honesty, and seems to want to trust her lover. Seems fairly straightforward to be on the receiving end, provided that you are actually trustworthy and honest with her. If you can do that, I'd think the relationship can be (somewhat) healthy for both sides. That is to say, I think FGO's version of Kiyohime fits the bill for the "what if their love is reciprocated" point you made. Meanwhile, some yandere seem motivated by the control and ownership aspects, possibly infantilizing the lover to some extent. The trustworthiness/honesty don't seem to matter as much, as some would treat you about the same (not always great) give or take some violence toward you and/or others if not treated properly. For many of this type, I wouldn't expect any possibility for a healthy or even relationship with them, even if their love is reciprocated. If their lover wants to be "forcibly" controlled/owned/infantilized, they might not have a problem with this dynamic (but I would). There's many more types out there, I just wanted to point out a couple that came to mind and why I see them differently. I usually don't like yandere, and FGO Kiyohime is just an exception to that.

[@IkatashiPaku]

Danger Will Robinson! Danger!

[@blazehydra]

There are extremes of yandere that make me uncomfortable, but i know exactly the opposite end and agree that a less extreme version is very desirable

[@joseroman5084]

This is a two-sided coin scenario: The dedication and loyalty for a relationship between two souls and an obsessive & boundless desire turning into controlling & dangerous madness!? It's all in the eye of the beholder!

[@FlameSparkZ]

Fun fact: one of my favorite characters in Fate/Grand Order is their interpretation of Kiyohime. I also did some research on the legend of Kiyohime, and in some versions she was an old lady, in others she was already a youkai from the beginning, tricking travelers.

[@chrisdunker54]

"He would kill the whole world if you would but love him." Misery speaking to Envy of Wrath. Love is a tricky thing because by its nature it is meant to be nearly uncontrollable. We all want to feel that love that knows no bounds and beggars description. But love is only the flip side of the coin and the other is hate. Both demand everything from the recipient and can be outside of their control. But what is life without love? It is an empty vessel that serves no function. It is the dead forest that sees no rain. It is truly the only thing that makes this life a place worth living in. And it is the affection, the romance that I hope to find at least once in my life.

[@vfd-agent-67]

I believe people who actually like Yandere never been in a heavily skewed relationship. It's as comfortable as being on a receiving end of an endless 24 hour bear-hug.

[@mysticthemanakete]

Honestly some of my favourite characters in video games, especially Fire Emblem, fit somewhere along the yandere scale - the first ones that come to mind that I love are Tharja, with her obsessive love for Robin to the point where she places even a female Robin’s life over her own when accepting Henry’s marriage proposal; Edelgard, with her infatuation with Byleth from the prologue regardless of gender and being marriageable by either; and finally Ivy, who while being more refined and not having the same love of the supernatural as Tharja definitely has that obsessively-devoted (to the level of literal worship) Big Tiddy Goth GF energy. Obviously I also need to give a shout-out to Princess Camilla of Nohr as well, but Azura’s my fave princess of that game 😂

[@KeeKage37]

In a strange way. I do understand. For someone who’s never been in love. Or for someone who’s been in love but lost it. Having someone who hole heartedly sees you as there hole would. There reason for being and will gladly die on that hill. Can be very endearing for that person. They want you to be loved. They want to be special to someone. It’s just that there is a fine line between love and obsession. And this genre goes way beyond crossing that line.

[@teshindax3683]

i will admit that, yes Yandere's are 100% guilty with the stuff they pull. And I my self LIKE yandere characters, its that Devotion and LOYALTY to their "Lover" that is so appealing to most people, Many people (my self included) have known heartbreak by many a women cheating on them for various BS reasons, be it for money or some "*Other Factor*", so having someone so loving and LOYAL that they would KILL just to be with them is endearing to them. (edit) i will say this though, they are 100% guilty and that is so not going to change, or change how people like them.

[@pinkkrystalz7610]

Being obsessive isn't healthy nor attractive. People who've dealt with stalkers will tell you that.🤨

[@teshindax3683]

@@pinkkrystalz7610 fair point i will not argue with that

[@TheRevanchrist]

I have thought of it for a while, but I think the character Brynhilde from the Volsung Saga/Poetic Edda is a bit on a Yandere. While it could just be attributed to Norse culture on the importance of oaths, after learning that her desired lover Sigurd was married to another woman, she threated her own husband (who she was tricked into marrying) to leave him for Sigurd unless he killed him. But after the deed was done, she kills herself to join Sigurd in the afterlife.

[@icaruspunk]

There is an appeal to the idea of someone having unconditional love, loyalty and devotion to you. There is a selfish satisfaction in the idea that, no matter what you do or say, they will be there loving and desiring you. That being said, if a yandere's advances are welcomed and accepted, they cease to be a yandere. The thing that makes them 'sick' is the lack of reciprocation. That's where the jealousy, possessiveness, violence and non-consent appear. That's the 'sick' part of the love sick. From an entertainment and purely fantasy stand point, I admit that I love yanderes. From a relationship in the real world stand point, if anyone in my life exhibits any of the same behaviors as a yandere, huge red flag... I would proceed with extreme caution (if you proceed at all.) Even so, that's only acknowledging the stereotypical yandere. There are many sub-classifications of yandere too. Not all of them are as potentially benign if they are reciprocated in their affections. With certain types of yanderes, all the above flies out the window, and really you should just run and/or hide... If you can. Which you may not be able to.

[@blackvial]

One of the few legends that FGO gets right

[@Tacos299]

I gotta thank Fate/Grand Order for making me guess correctly on what Ancient Yandere Gaijin was talking about in this video. lol Great insight, btw! I think you hit the nail on the head on exactly what makes Yandere fans, fans of Yanderes.

[@wilton1990]

I hear Kiyohime, my mind suddenly goes "OH NO, THE DRAGON STALKER GIRL FROM FATE GRAND ORDER!!"

[@danysiegh9746]

When I saw Yandere and Japanese Folk Lore, the image of a green girl flash through my mind. Lo and behold it was her.

[@IS34PreteristForce]

No offense, but if someone was willing to murder in order to me to remain in a relationship with them, that’s not love. It’s love of possession or obsession.

[@ashleightompkins3200]

Speaking as a pansexual woman, I absolutely get both sides. There are mountains of books that rival Mt. Fuji and Killamanjaro in size that are all about the possessive, obsessive man who the plain Jane MC would never be able to attain otherwise. Women want that fantasy. In simpler terms, we don't want Prince Adam, we want the Beast. Btw What's the name of the stop motion you used? It looks beautiful!

[@pinkkrystalz7610]

As a Heteroromantic Asexual woman I actually prefer prince Adam over the beast. Being obsessive to the point where you think you're entitled to someone's affection isn't healthy and shouldn't be romanticized. Leave me out of it and don't generalize women like that. Also, what's wrong with liking a prince, especially those who happens to be good looking?🤨

[@ashleightompkins3200]

@@pinkkrystalz7610 I was only giving my opinion based on what I’ve seen.

[@pinkkrystalz7610]

@@ashleightompkins3200 Based on what you've seen? You do realize that people have different preferences, right? Again, don't generalize us.🤨

[@ashleightompkins3200]

@@pinkkrystalz7610 I am well aware of that. Please do not say ‘Us’ as if I am part of an out group. We are both women, we just have different opinions and viewpoints

[@pinkkrystalz7610]

@@ashleightompkins3200 When I meant "us" I was referring to women on general.🤦‍♀️ Also, stop saying " it's my opinion" as if you're a martyr or something. If you're allowed to disagree with me, then I'm allowed to disagree with *you*. It goes both ways.

[@pingpong5877]

The lonely generation is sickly in love with the concept of love.

[@bloodcrusnik7418]

There's actually a good example of when the yandere is given the attention of their targeted love interest in Durarara, with the Seiji and Mika.

[@fireembliam9090]

7:27 She got nice long hair.

[@Lobomaru02]

Can we get a video about the Tsundere? Also Kiyohime continues to be a yandere in FGO. For her, Mad Enhancement manifests as thinking her Master is Anchin, and if she even _thinks_ they're lying to her, she consumes a Command Spell. This includes if the Master tries to play along and says that they are indeed Anchin. Good luck.

[@BlueJeiVA]

I agree. What I (and probably most people) look for in a relationship is what Yandere provide (though clearly not to such extreme extent). We can hear "I love you" or "I'd do anything for you" all day and night, but it's all-too-often contradicted by a partner's lack of action; proof.

[@ShinKyuubi]

Someone in the comments pointed out loyalty being a big reason. As a man who is, in my own opinion, not very attractive and feels I have a lot of flaws, one of my key worries of dating (especially in the modern era) is that the girl I'm giving my best to, and being loyal to, is not going to do that. I also have serious self worth issues when it comes to my looks and just my general personality. I know who and what I am and I am VERY unwilling to change after being the way I am for literal decades. Am I willing to make small changes? Yes, but I'm not gonna change the core of who I am for someone...and the idea of someone being loyal to me even with all my real and imagined flaws? That is VERY appealing. Am I a huge fan of Yandere characters? Not particularly but as I've said...I can see the appeal of someone that loyal and willing to prove it...I can see it much more than the appeal of a Tsundere which has now sadly become code for "Abusive" at times in anime and manga, it's why Akane is not exactly one of my favorite characters in Ranma 1/2.

[@thomaskalland9276]

Can you do a witch ninja on the Scarlet Pimpernel. It’s a book about an English noble who helps former French nobles escape the revolution and he uses coded messages and impeccable disguises

[@carloszapata847]

The most well know Male Yandere is probably Anakin Skywalker (aka Darth Vader) from Star Wars.

[@pinkkrystalz7610]

❌But he's not obsessive or possessive that he kills anyone who even looks at Padme.

[@Celestia282]

I hate that so much, but I can't disagree.

[@pinkkrystalz7610]

@@Celestia282 Idiot, he's not a Male Yandere.

[@Troublethecat]

I wouldn't call him a male yandere at all.

[@SlapstickGenius23]

@@Troublethecat he must’ve had a ton of trauma. A mix of Yan-, Tsun- and Arrogant Kung Fu Guy all in one.

[@Zorixas]

There's a saying that I added to a well known Chinese saying; "Too much of a good thing is a bad thing. However it's better that it's too much than too little." Think of the current situation that we're in. How many stories have you heard of cheating or simple breakups due to feelings disappearing for no good reason? When someone is obsessed with someone else, it may be bad, but there are many that would rather have that than someone who would drop their partner for "Someone better" or just didn't like them anymore. The feeling of rejection and abandonment is something no one would want, even if it means dealing with someone who is obsessed with them. Not to mention that if they are really into their target, they'll listen to them when they are firm in telling them to tune the murder intent down, which can lead to them becoming the perfect partner in life. When faced with someone scary, it's always best to face it with courage rather than try to escape it.

[@pinkkrystalz7610]

You've obviously never dealt with a stalker. 🙄

[@Zorixas]

@@pinkkrystalz7610 Funny that you should mention that. I actually did had to deal with a stalker during my junior secondary school days. An... interesting experience to say the least. Again though, it's always best to face a scary situation with courage.

[@pinkkrystalz7610]

@@Zorixas Yeah, no. That's not what victims of stalking do. In fact they don't EVER want to even encounter their stalker face-to-face. They want their stalker to be behind bars while they're in therapy.

[@Zorixas]

@@pinkkrystalz7610 Exactly, that's what I'm talking about. Most of the time, nothing can be done about stalkers because stalking itself isn't against the law, at least not until they escalate and do something to cross the line, e.g., harassment and the like. Stalkers stalk because they themselves do not have the balls to face their victims while wanting to be a part of their lives, and they try to do so in misguided ways that cause more harm than anything else. It's best to nip that problem in the bud before it grows to be a bigger problem. As much as people would like to think so, most problems do not disappear by ignoring them, and stalkers are definitely not the exception, but with some courage and a bit of creative thinking, you can actually get rid of them much easier than one would think. I remember of a story of some celebrity (can't remember who of the top of my head, but it was a male actor I think) that had a relentless female stalker fan. What he did to get rid of her was invite her to a diner and complained about all of his problems. She never came back after that. Why? She had an image of him always being a strong man, so he showed her weakness and she backed off. Besides, stalkers are kittens compared to Yanderes, who would want to kill someone that even approaches their targets. They are a completely different beast, but one that can be tamed all the same. One that can cost you your life in the attempt if you do so improperly, but it always start with a bit of courage. It always does.

[@pinkkrystalz7610]

@@Zorixas I'm not going to read your longwinded essay, so I'll make this short: "being courageous" doesn't happen when encountering with stalkers, predators, or people who don't take no for an answer. That's just wish fulfillment.

[@galaxy-eyesgarchomp9478]

This video was well worth the wait. I didn't expect to get a different perspective on the yandere troupe, but I am glad that I did.

[@chriscarlisle5676]

Hell hath no fury

[@Rainears129]

So, I can understand why someone might want the kind of devotion a Yandere has for their interest, but I personally would never want to catch a yandere's attention. Even in media, I don't like them simply because they can be a rather realistic horror, particularly for women (and especially women in the queer community). Just the whole "If I can't have you, no one can" and not taking no for an answer is frankly terrifying, and it's something the victims are often blamed for.

[@Nverdis]

Tsunderes also underwent a transformation over time. Except probably for the worst. Originally, they were supposed to be people who highlighted the immaturity of the main character (at least initially), only coming around to openly love them after the main character overcame their shortcomings. However, it deteriorated into a simple gag that lost all the context of the first

[@Gooberwares]

From my experience It's the idea that a person/character looks past all the faults you see in yourself and finds so much beauty in it that they are willing to ensure their with you

[@n1hondude]

Yandere in anime/manga are a bit overexaggerated but that's also a reflection on how the male are so pathetic and not up to snuff and not ready to step up, you could even say it's a reflection of the "current society" in Japan and the rise of herbivore men

[@SlapstickGenius23]

Herbivore Men! I’ve heard of that concept before. It also seems to be prevalent in both my native Australia and increasingly the whole European Union. Also, we Aussies don’t bear as much babies as we once did for both economic and environmental reasons. I am not kidding.

[@ridewild1956]

And then there's flay allster who was a manipulative yandere who tried to manipulate everyone

[@Lightspeeds]

No, flay isn't a yandere. She's just a mess of a girl.

[@viviotheshadowmage5713]

I can definitely see the appeal, thanks to this video and thinking back, on yanderes. I think, much like other tropes, it depends on how far the character goes with that trope, and how it is used, to see if it is “positively appealing” or not. I think some yandere characters are fine to think positively of, while a good chunk of them are not.

[@ceresbane]

Earliest Japanese story I know was in the tale of Genji.

[@nkyfong]

Well, that's the first novel.

[@Ernerald545]

thank you for doing a video talking about Yanderes. My day has been made.

[@Aghul]

I never really thought about the 'passion' and 'protective' side, but I can see your point!

[@lizardguyNA]

I uhh.... I don't want that kind of psychosis in a relationship. There's a difference between a woman who is willing to fight for you, and a woman who is violently obsessed with you.

[@gothicMCRgirl]

That’s what he’s saying. People who enjoy yandere characters are well aware that it’s toxic in real life, and of course no one wants to be with someone that’s so unhinged they would kill someone. But what’s alluring about yanderes is the devotion and the feeling of being so important they would put you first over everyone and everything.

[@exorack3037]

The fact that you're perturbed by that shows that you're far more mentally healthy than those who are into it

[@pirateking56128]

I can see where people would find this appealing, or what about it would be, but there is a certain level of suspending disbelief that is being done. I think in the same way some people do with kinks, not all things a person is attracted to are things they really want irl. I think that, for most people at least, this is one of those cases where it's fine so long as its in the safe realm of fantasy and not happening in the real world. I'm really not on board with it myself (aro) so can only see it as something frightening. I like the idea of someone liking me back, but not to anything close to an obsessive degree.

[@BoB-13]

Ah...Kiyohime. My first waifu in FGO.

[@movespammerguyteam7colors]

To me specifically, it shows that there is such a thing as too much love. Fighting for or to protect the ones you love is one thing but destroying everyone and everything you perceive as “in your way” leads to more violence.

[@UndeadEggmiester]

Ah yes kiyohime. As a fate fan I'm all aware of kiyo.

[@SharpestSniper99]

I know he doesn’t really adhere to every trope in the yandere book and as a whole I wouldn’t call the character a yandere in the slightest…but I think funnily enough, when you think about it, Venom of all characters has a some yandere tropes built into his core both with Eddie Brock and the Symbiote.

[@SlapstickGenius23]

Yeah, it was interesting to think about. He’s also a bit of a tsundere when sometimes on good terms with Peter Parker as Spider-Man.

[@SharpestSniper99]

@@SlapstickGenius23 well. Less so nowadays cuz by now both Eddie and the symbiote truly buried the hatchet with Peter.