The Forgotten Avro Vulcan Passenger Jet

[@Historically]

Quick note: I am aware that the formal way to pronounce BOAC is as an acronym (B-O-A-C), however, within the airline itself it was usually called Bo-Ack. While one is more well known, both are correct.

[@waynebrinker8095]

When B.O.A.C. was still around, it was called exactly that No one called Trans World "Twa"....no one called American Airlines "Aah".......and no one called B.O.A.C. "Bo-ack".

[@cdl0]

No, it was also called B-O-A-C by all working for the airline. I write from personal experience, as somebody from that era. The inside joke was that the initials meant 'Better On A Camel'. ;-) It was never called 'Bow-ack'.

[@dragonmeddler2152]

"Flew in from Los Angelees B-O-A-C, man, I had a dreadful flight..."

[@tedsmith6137]

In opposition to other comments, I can say that at QANTAS in the 70's and on, it WAS called Bo-ack. When it became British Airways, it was called B.A. but there were some who called it 'Humbug".

[@cdl0]

@@tedsmith6137 Interesting: it may have been a mild Aussie insult from rivals at QANTAS to say 'bo-ack' instead of 'B-O-A-C'. Another Aussie favourite joke often heard then was, what sort of plane keeps whining when the engines have stopped? Answer: a planeload of Poms. ;-) In truth, despite the endless banter and sledging, they all loved each other, really. You can't play cricket on your own.

[@bruceburns1672]

It's hard to believe now that Britain once had an Aircraft manufacturing industry , but I have to add , car , shipbuilding , motorbikes , tools , manufacturing machinery , farm machinery , etc etc on and on , yep unbelievable .

[@1IbramGaunt]

Shouldn't be so unbelievable though. Unfortunately a combination of weak stupid penny-pinching governments, and lead lobbo standing around braziers once too often, means it's a historical footnote now, whatever industry we have left's either under foriegn ownership or part of mergers WITH foriegn companies

[@Petriefied0246]

It still does, but what we don't have is industries with high labour costs which have been moved to places where labour costs are low.

[@thunberbolttwo3953]

Any student of military aircraft knows Britains Aircraft manufacturing industry.

[@stevewalsh1987]

We still do. BAE, Airbus to name a few.

[@thunberbolttwo3953]

@@stevewalsh1987 Airbus is a international company. Not a British company. BAE is allso a multinational company to.

[@GSD-hd1yh]

I remember as a child that BOAC was referred to as the Boeing Only Aircraft Company, because of their preference for the 707 over the VC10.

[@malcolmnicholls2893]

Which finished the VC10. This after they asked for a powerful plane and then complained about fuel consumption?

[@GSD-hd1yh]

@@malcolmnicholls2893 The board of BOAC wanted to buy 707s but they weren't suitable for the African and Asian routes, being too large and lacking performance. BOACs board criticised the VC10 at every opportunity, including its engines, but then went on to buy 707s using the same Conways as the VC10.

[@Volcano-Man]

The term was coined because the then chairman of BOAC had made his preference for Boeing aircraft even before the VC10 first flew. He wanted to cancel the 10, but was advised it would cause political embarrassment!

[@malcolmnicholls2893]

@@GSD-hd1yh Thanks.

[@MorristheMinor]

@@Volcano-Man It's a pity that the HMG didn't have the guts remind BOAC about the amount of money they made from carrying Royal Mail, or indeed that they could be nationalised like the railway.

[@bigdmac33]

Very interesting. One reason that the British Government 'handed' the aviation development to the Americans was that the Americans used economic threats and blackmail. So too with Canada. America never liked a fair fight. Or competition.

[@crushingvanessa3277]

It'll never stop either. Design competitions are useless for anything, just follow the money and you'll know who's going to win.

[@MarchHare59]

bigdmac33: And the other reason was the Americans won the market by building better airliners. The British and Canadian governments didn't hand aviation development to anybody. They screwed it up all on their own.

[@williamwoods8022]

@@MarchHare59 Actually the US, UK, Canada and most countries on this planet are owned and controlled by these Mafias being exposed in this video here and all work to their agenda including DELIBERATELY destroying these countries economies back then just like they are doing to the entire planet just now kzbin.info/www/bejne/b2nUp2ywqdCKlbc

[@eddieboy4667]

TSR2 territory.

[@y_ffordd]

@@MarchHare59 there were mistakes such as the square windows on the comet, but you cant deny that the usa through their financial influence post war steer europe, backed rebuilding but also made sure they benefitted, which makes sense. They supported rebuilding Germany to be a leader in Europe simply because they believed they were easier to control than the UK. So its no surprise that they continued to meddle in the affairs of the UK, such as the cancellation of TSR2.

[@davidbeattie4294]

During the late 40's and early 50's the British aerospace industry was on fire. The talent and imagination were there but the resources simply weren't. Britain was badly crippled by the war and loss of Empire. It simply couldn't afford to fund big new aviation projects. Its interesting to note that Avro Canada received tremendous support from Avro UK as it developed the Jetliner, the first passenger jet to fly in North America. That project too, was both funded by and then killed by the Federal Government of Canada.

[@jeffslade1892]

Bit of an american myth. British economy was not that bad. The 1957 MacMillan "our people have never had it so good" speech was true. But people were tired of war and wanted defence funding cut. Avro Canada was not independent of Avro or Gloster, both part of the Hawker Siddeley group, they shared technology and personnel.

[@paularowe7651]

I remember in around 1965 at the Farnborough airshow a Vulcan fitted with the Concorde engines. I don't remember how many engines though, possibly two. At this time the Concorde was still in development. I remember this experimental setup well and the Vulcan was flying like a fighter!

[@fredericksaxton3991]

I was there that day, the Vulcan was fitted with a single engine and I believe it actually flew past the spectators on the single Concorde engine with the four others stopped.

[@grahamfisher5436]

in the event of *all four engines* *TOTAL* electrical systems failure or *COMPLETE SHUTDOWN*. A tiny *Wind turbine* is lowered from the Undercarriage. locks into place to *power* the Vulcan ESSENTIAL ELECTRICAL SYSTEMS* THIS KEEPS THE ENGINES OPPERATING, ( don't ask me, to explain the science), in order to KEEP that BIRD STILL UP IN THE SKY.. and.......... all other SYSTEMS ARE COMPLETELY SHUT OFF. that is INCREDIBLE . GENIUS BEHOND THE SKYS ps... One wonder's 🤔🙄 what?! and "if" the Vulcan B Group "ever" "opperated" alongside the "Special Forces ( SAS) and "if" they (SAS) "ever" HAHO / HALO from the VULCANS????!!! 🛫🥷 ☁️☁️☁️ ⬇️ eg .. dropped a few of the boys, "off" during operation Black Buck NOW that would be incredible story's to hear (if it actually happened) 🤔😳🤪😜🤪🤯🤯🤩🤩💪

[@Lee0568]

The other was around,it was the Concorde that was fitted with Vulcan engines,the Bristol siddley Olympus engines

[@oxcart4172]

XH558 didn't fly continuously for that long. Amazingly, it was restored to fly as a civil aircraft in 2008- years after it's retirement from the RAF.

[@Historically]

Right, thanks for the correction!

[@aabumble9954]

WHAT??? It was an airshow display piece when it was still flying doesn't civil aircraft mean passenger plane orrrrr..........am I ....... Wrong? I'm British 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧.

[@oxcart4172]

@@aabumble9954 No, lots of ex-military planes are civil registered. But they're usually things like Spitfire and Hurricanes. Not old jet bombers!

[@johncunningham4820]

British Engineering used to be the Finest in the World . And they LITERALLY gave it all away to other Countries . Ships , Aircraft , Motor Cars , Motorcycles and the List could continue . Short-sighted Greed being the PRIME CULPRIT .

[@stevenhoman2253]

Hi, i have also considered politics beyond greed as a key factor. FDR was no friend of the British Emipe, as a worl force, wishing to supplant it with the 20th centuries American hegamonic influence. The UK became a debtor nation following WWII, to the extent that the financial debt was not fully repaid till the 2000's. The computer technology was given away to the the US, along with the codeveloped atom bomb, the all flying tail technology ( developed by Miles Aircraft ) which resolved the pitching moment issues inherent in transonic and supersonic flight. the tiny Magnetron which miniturised the RADAR that was under development; and doubtless, so much more. All the subsequent decay, ( the TSR2 scandal, which saw the vastly inferior F-111 purchase ) This Yankee disposition to hegemony continued forther throughout the dominion's. From Canada's cancellation of the Avro Arrow, and the subsequent death of the fledgling Australian Rocket program.. Australia was well in advance to the USA in rocketry, despite not having the German Nazi V1 and V2 scientists available to the country. Sometimes a blank slate can lead to great things with new thinking. Eventually with the influx of British, Canadian and Australian scientists; a mighty engineering behemoth was unleashed as a bulwark against the insidious expansion of murderous communism. They call it American exceptionalism. Even so, despite what ever handicaps we have been lumbered with, each country has proceeded to incredible achievements.

[@mohabatkhanmalak1161]

This is what we've been hearing for decades "British engineering, finest in the world", well which world?? Its an urban myth, just snap out of it and come to reality, all the bland products it supplied to its colonies, who had very little in the way of choice, kept British industries going for all those decades. The fact that all its industries are no more, shipbuilding, aircraft, automotive, electrical, textile etc should send out the message that there were issues and the main one being lack of innovation and quality.

[@johncunningham4820]

@@mohabatkhanmalak1161 . It was Poor Business Acumen that slowly closed down British Engineering . As ENGINEERS they were superior to All .

[@williamwoods8022]

It was all DELIBERATE just like has happened to the US and most other western countries where these Mafias that own and control most of the world being exposed in this video here moved all of the jobs to the cheaper countries and have been flooding our countries with immigrants to bring all of the wages and conditions down and to get rid of countries as part of their agenda also exposed in this video - everything that is going on just now is part of this agenda kzbin.info/www/bejne/b2nUp2ywqdCKlbc

[@y_ffordd]

@@mohabatkhanmalak1161 nah there was plenty of innovation, perhaps look at the massive post ww2 debt and lack of government support for the manufacturing industry as the country refocused on the services industry which did not have the “problems” of a union/communism, so that is why there were quality issues, but there had to be innovation to deliver some of the good products out there, otherwise the collapse would have been much quicker. If you want to talk about the oppression of the British, Churchills genocide, then thats a different story, but one that should be taught to all British.

[@HFX1955]

Avro built the second jet airliner to fly, just weeks after the Comet. That was the Avro Canada Jetliner. It might have served Avro to go with that design rather than a modified bomber.

[@Historically]

I talked about Avro Canada in my most recent video!

[@pitrow66]

Yes the Avro Jet in Canada was 7 years ahead of the Boing 707.

[@awuma]

@@pitrow66 It was a very different beast, designed for short haul service rather than long range. It would have competed with the Viscount, and later with the B737, DC-9 and BAC-111.

[@jeromewagschal9485]

Did it howl like the bomber too ? That would have been something... I can imagine the Avro Atlantic howling every time it lands or takes off...

[@phantomkea2]

Great shots of Vulcans flying over New Zealand

[@mikerochford2595]

Yes, in an airshow to celebrate the opening of the new Wellington airport in October 1959, I believe. One of the three Vulcans undershot the runway during a "touch and go", damaging the landing gear. Three of the crew were ordered to bale out, but declined, and all five survived the subsequent emergency landing.

[@CJetsPlanespotting]

Babe wake up, new Historically video dropped

[@blitz21]

Many years ago I used to take the display crew to RAF Waddington for the display season from Marham. The aircrew in 558's latter years were actually Victor pilots.

[@creonape2900]

I see a relation in oversimplified! I love you types of people. Very informative! Nice video :)

[@Sacto1654]

I think the Avro Atlantic would still have not been able to compete against the Boeing 707, especially the -420 model powered by four Conway engines. The Conway-powered 707's could seat more people and was better suited for BOAC's longer routes outside of its African services.

[@manuwilson4695]

Obviously.

[@jackroutledge352]

Not to mention the 707 would have been far cheaper in view of the economies of scale Boeing could use.

[@andreas4010]

Plus the engine placement would make servicing it a nightmare

[@Tconcept]

We also handed to America the privilege of breaking the sound barrier. Certainly some traitors in our midst. Mention also goes to the lighting and TSR2.

[@kdrapertrucker]

You handed the privilege by having an aircraft that becomes uncontrollable at transonic speeds. You guys list a damn good test pilot figuring that out.

[@kazsmaz]

@@kdrapertrucker Britain developed the all moving tailplane first.

[@Dog.soldier1950]

UK was hard up and broke

[@Tconcept]

@@Dog.soldier1950 yes because of war debt ie lend lease

[@Dog.soldier1950]

@@Tconcept you misunderstand Lend-Lease

[@samrodian919]

Thank you for that. This Avro aircraft slipped through my knowledge of Avro types, as I had no idea of a civilian airliner based on the Vulcan.

[@stevegolding5523]

The British developed the Vickers VC 10 that was used by Airlines across the world and the RAF too...being the transport version of the airliner. The airliner version was also a competitor to the 707.

[@raypurchase801]

How many airlines bought the VC 10, except BOAC? The RAF in-flight refuellers were ex-BOAC airliners with the seats ripped out and replaced with fuel tanks.

[@TheArgieH]

The development of the VC 10 hit problems with excessive drag which of course meant more fuel consumption and loss of range. The rear mounting for the engines had to be modified and there were changes to the wing tips. My it was a noisy b******d, I found it worse than Concorde since it took time to approach and go over. Leaving you with rattling fillings.

[@tonymercer7759]

the VC 10 was a good plane. Flew it CAI/LHR way back

[@feldons5621]

@@raypurchase801 ONLY three other airlines ordered the VC 10 - BUA (3) ,EAA ( 3 Super) and Ghana (3) ordered the plane so hardly any ! . Used aircraft were flown by MEA (1 EX Ghana) Nigeria (1 ex BOAC) Malawi 1 ( ex BUA)

[@raypurchase801]

@@feldons5621 Thankyou for your research. In this era, the nationalised British aviation industry was making aircraft in penny-packet numbers. The unit cost was several times greater than that of the US equivalent. Sometimes the government would do a trade deal whereby the aircraft was "sold", but actually given away to get rid of unsellable stock.

[@davidjones332]

The Avro Heritage Centre at Woodford still have the Atlantic model shown here, complete with perspex skin sections to allow visitors to see the interior complete with cocktail bar!

[@paulredfearn6520]

Thank you. This is an education

[@bennybenitez2461]

Brilliant presentation most interesting and informative.

[@Historically]

Thank you for the kind words!

[@idontlikethiswedbettergo5888]

XL584 - my dad bombed the US twice in a simulated Nuclear Attack in the 1960s, took off from Lossiemouth in Scotland . The Americans thought it was a fluke so they asked the RAF to try again a few months later….. Same result.

[@Historically]

One of my favorite stories, so cool that your dad was apart of that!

[@1davidsmall]

Apparently they had issues providing a 'solution' on concorde despite it running on a schedule - just as well it was fairly friendly...

[@eddieboy4667]

Great video. Thanks.

[@Historically]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@neiloflongbeck5705]

Whether you face forwards or backwards the G loading in a crash will be the same. However, facing backwards means the seat absorbs more of the impact forces.

[@davidmalcolm9524]

All the RAF VC10 Passenger Variants had backwards facing seats fitted, flew on one from RAF Brize Norton to Cyprus in the 1980's and it gives you a completely different perspective - especially when sitting in a window seat. We were told by the RAF stewards the reason why they were facing backwards was for better survivability if involved in a crash - "far safer to be pushed back into the seat during a rapid de-celeration than to be thrown forward into the back of the seat in front" they said

[@ianhollands1641]

I flew in a BEA trident with rearward facing seats. It was particularly uncomfortable because airliners spend a lot of time in a nose up attitude.

[@zayyanhakim747]

1:05 Captain: what was that? Copilot: nothing ;-;

[@andrewdrabble8939]

Having had the extreme privilege of seeing XH558 flying at airshows, I can say that she is magnificent. I always said that 'The Grand Old Lady' would have made a good airliner and that the Concorde would have made a good bomber. However it never came to pass

[@thhseeking]

I wonder if the Atlantic would have had the "Vulcan Howl" as well :P

[@andrewdrabble8939]

@@thhseeking That's a good point

[@sonnyburnett8725]

I realize you have tried to defend yourself for calling BOAC Bo-Ack, however as a retired airline employee, I can truthfully say I’ve never heard of Bo-Ack nor would I have known who you were referring too. Thanks

[@thomasm1964]

All RAF transport aircraft have rearward-facing seats. They don’t reduce G forces in the event of a crash but the seats can better protect the human body and they impact is taken on the passenger’s back rather than their face and forehead. As a child, I flew many times on the iconic RAF VC-10. I can remember being completely disoriented the first time I flew commercial and boarded an aircraft where all the seats faced the “wrong” way.

[@alexr8369]

Thank you for capturing and presenting this piece of aviation history.

[@mxyzptlyk]

I saw XH558 fly a few times. One day I was having my car serviced in Hinckley, Leicestershire, UK. The garage was directly behind the "Vulcan to the sky" charities' warehouse and they wheeled a Vulcan APU (Auxiliary Power Unit) out on a frame and started it. Magical.

[@bigblue6917]

There is a 1963 British comedy film called The Iron Maiden the plot of which was to get American backing for the passenger version of the Victor. The Iron Maiden in the film was a traction engine for which the designer of the passenger aircraft had a passion.

[@Lee0568]

The comet failed because of the windows,the windows were square which induced metal fatigue,BUT the comet went on to become the NIMROD.

[@redlioness6627]

FFS, stop saying "BOW-ACK", it is B as in Bee, O as in Oh, A as in dAy and C as in Sea!

[@Flyingwithchristopher]

Good to see you back

[@woofgbruk5947]

In the early 70s as family we used to refer to it as "Better On A Camel"

[@Historically]

As a Canadian I remember when Pacific Western Airlines, known as PWA, used to be nicknamed “Please Wait Awhile”

[@PassiveSmoking]

BOAC got a reputation for being a massive thorn in the side of the British aircraft industry. They'd issue specifications that were very specific, the companies would design aircraft to match those specs, then BOAC would decide the resulting aircraft was too expensive and just buy more 707s instead. This earned them the nickname Boeing Owner's Aeroplane Club.

[@iancharlton678]

Hard to believe that only 11 years separate the first flights of the Avro Vulcan and the Avro Lancaster….. both of which had Roy Chadwick as chief designer 🙂🇬🇧

[@markcarter3617]

Amazing how a couple of bad decisions put a coffin lid on our aero industry

[@andrewmorgan1819]

Square windows in the Comet! I wonder if we'd still have had the Nimrod, if they'd use round windows and stolen the march on the 707

[@timhancock6626]

Not that simple. From wartime the British aircraft industry had become addicted to nice government military contracts. They were particularly ill equipped to come up with competitive civil aircraft that earned money instead of costing money. There were too many companies with bosses jealously guarding their fiefdoms and none of them were big enough to compete internationally, or to build aircraft to a high enough standard. They refused to merge or even cooperate with each other or modernise out of 'cottage industry' practices until it was forced on them. Did you know that it was hard to find two Short built Tucanos that were the same length...and that was in the 1980s. Exceptions to this failure are Vickers Viscount, Avro 748 and HS 125 which sold well internationally.

[@able_archer01]

@@timhancock6626 probably didn't help that manufacturers at the time often chose to bend to the will of the big national carriers like BEA. The DH/HS Trident was a massive missed opportunity. BEA saw a decline in passenger growth and demanded the proposed DH 121 design be shrunk, thinking it would be too big. DH rather short-sightedly, decided to exclusively submit to BEA's demand instead of selling the original design to other airlines. The original DH 121 design probably could have been a strong 727 competitor. The Trident we know today was fatally-undersized and emasculated.

[@1IbramGaunt]

@Wallace Carney unique products they were too short-sighted to take a chance on more like

[@stevenhoman2253]

Two things should be noted. The Comet was the first pressurised high altitude passenger airliner ever made. It failed only insofar as the design of the rectangular windows, which could not cope with repeated pressurisation cycles. So metal fatigue, which was overcome. The Comet once redesigned, became an invaluable long range maritime patrol aircraft for the RAF for many decades. Strictly speaking the Avro Vulcan did not use a classic plan form delta wing. It was rather, an Ogival style , similar to the Concorde wing,, which was found to offer more low speed stability for landing.

[@timhancock6626]

From 1958 onwards the Comet became an excellent airliner. I have flown on one. The maritime Nimrod did not appear until 1969 and used refurbished Comet airframes until retired in 2011.

[@AlexPraglowskiAviation]

quality content

[@manuwilson4695]

...with crappy pronunciation?...😳

[@awuma]

I never heard of the Avro Atlantic, but there was plenty written about the Vickers VC-7, which resembled a Comet 4 on steroids. It also was never built, though the VC-10 was. Both the Atlantic and the VC-7 would have had the in-wing engine mountings, which were favoured for airliner and bomber designs in the early 1950's (e.g. the other V-bombers and numerous Soviet examples). The Boeing 367-80 and the Caravelle set the trends for subsequent transport designs, with the Boeing wing pod solution proving the safest and most practical, though not without its shortcomings ( a classic case of trade-offs).

[@martinlagrange8821]

A note - The airliner it makes an appearance in a variety of science fiction - Nevil Shute's novel 'In The Wet' in which it is called the DeHavilland Ceres, and one each is purchased for Queen Elizabeth II by the governments of Canada and Australia. For a book written in the early 1950's, it makes a lot of very shrewd guesses. Worth a read on that basis !

[@iandoherty5659]

Rear facing seats were standard on RAF transport aircraft in the 60's and 70's

[@davidmalcolm9524]

Avro did build an Airliner towards the end WW2 - The Avro York, Avro in the UK and Canada also built the Avro Lancastrian Passenger Transport Aircraft that flew with BEA, BOAC and The RAF after the 2nd World War - the Lancastrian was used during the Berlin Airlift during 1948

[@likklej8]

The Vulcan was one of the most noisy jets airplanes I’ve seen. I saw one doing low level beat ups a Farnborough in the late sixties. I loved the civilian Vulcan cartoon press the bomb button and loose the cheap seats? Sorry for black thought. The passenger Victor airplane towards the end of its flight days was used as a refuelling plane for the RAF nice video thanks for the memory

[@tim.iteland.9447]

The electric was the loudest aircraft ever built at full send .

[@garyradley5694]

BOAC? Never heard anyone say that before. Its B.O.A.C, with each letter pronounced separately.

[@petertocher6845]

Nice shots in New Zealand. Presumably a visit to Whenuapai or Wellington. The air to air shot looks a bit like Mt Egmont (Taranaki). A couple of times a fully camouflaged Vulcan passed over my house in Sth. Auckland on finals to Auckland International.

[@Historically]

The footage in this video is from a 1956 visit from Vulcan XA897 to Wellington. You’re correct, the mountain is Mount Egmont. This was the first Vulcan to be delivered. The aircraft crashed on its return to England.

[@awuma]

@@Historically It gives me a thrill knowing I was behind the clouds to the right of Mt. Egmont then :-) That plane flew over my school in New Plymouth, one of the most memorable moments of my childhood. The crash was a shocker. In 1995, I was reading a book which, among others, delved into the Heathrow Vulcan crash, when, sitting on my boat I saw an RAF Nimrod stall and crash into Lake Ontario.

[@timhancock6626]

What killed all these proposals was cost. Boeing twigged that cost of maintenance was everything and their master stroke was to place the engines in pods below the wing making maintenance and replacement speedy and easy, and having a standardised fuselage profile for different aircraft. Game over really.

[@adampoultney8737]

*Vulcan nerd's official seal of approval*

[@ufoengines]

Cool post thanks! There were plans for a passenger version of the B-58 . I suppose it would have been super sonic.

[@markiesmith4537]

"British flag carrier Boac" What??? You mean B.O.A.C. pronounced "Bee Oh Ay Cee" ....That's a schoolboy error!

[@Deepthought-42]

As a complete corollary; I remember a leaflet at late 1960s Farnborough Airshow showing Concorde equipped with underwing rockets and a bomb bay. An obviously impractical idea that came to nothing but it illustrates the imagination of British aviation at the time until stifled by government.

[@allangibson2408]

There was also a 747 bomber proposed with multiple rotary ALCM launchers mounted so the rotary launchers were mounted to an even bigger rotary carrier… That said the bomber version of the DH Comet (the Nimrod) was eventually replaced by the bomber version of the Boeing 737 (the P-8).

[@paulhaynes8045]

70 year-old Brit here - I've never heard B O A C called 'boac'. Anymore than B E A was pronounced 'bea'!

[@drsheisenberg6840]

Keep it up 👍

[@Historically]

Thanks!

[@allangibson2408]

Avro did build a production jet airliner - the Avro RegionalJet - a derivative of the BAe 146.

[@Historically]

The Avro RJ was built by Avro International Aerospace, which was a subsidiary created by British Aerospace. It’s not the same company as Avro, the company which created the Vulcan and proposed the Atlantic. That company merged with Hawker-Siddeley in 1963.

[@allangibson2408]

@@Historically And Hawker Siddeley’s aviation division was folded into BAe in 1977 (which was how BAe wound up with both the Avro brand and the HS 146 project).

[@micstonemic696stone]

didn't know that the Avro Vulcan could fly at 50,000ft, a good idea I think, however the Vulcan had a mid wing

[@212MPH]

Roy Chadwick the genius behind the Vulcan and Lancaster had the Vulcan used to design Concorde, even the engines were Vulcan derived Bristol Olympus.

[@piratescoron]

BOAC is not pronounced Bowack. Its British Overseas Aircraft Corporation or B.O.A.C.

[@leesmith8366]

Want there something similar to this in that traction engine film (early 60s)? The 1st part of the film showed the engineer working for an aircraft manufacturer trying to sell prototype airliner to a rich American, but in this case it was a Victor.

[@chrisst8922]

The Iron Maiden

[@leesmith8366]

Thanks, good film

[@capncol]

That traction engine is still in use. The rich American was played by Alan Hale who also played Casey Jones, the railroad engineer tv series

[@thhseeking]

I thought I was listening to Trey the Explainer for a minute :P

[@stephenphilp1380]

B.O.A.C is absolutely Not pronounced as a word. It is always pronounced as four single consecutive letters. It is an acronym and should be pronounced as such. To pronounce it as a word is to display one’s ignorant illiteracy!

[@jackpwc01]

QANTAS would disagree with you there.

[@robertsmelt6638]

@@jackpwc01 That has sod all to do with B O A C . Acronyms work or they don't. Only a moron would say Bowack. Now that any fool can make KZbin videos, their shallow real knowledge is exposed to the world.

[@jackthebassman1]

I have my name on XH 558, a birthday present from Mrs Thomas😂

[@dougb5202]

I think that backwards seat configuration was a bad idea. I travelled on a high speed train one time and ended up in a rear facing seat, overall uncomfortable and disorienting. In a plane even worse, as someone else mentioned in an earlier comment, the slightly nose up attitude of the plane would make it even worse.

[@michaelpielorz9283]

Wasn`t Vulcan a little bit loud? o.K. not as loud as a SaturnV but I think this fact will shureley minimizes the number of "!friendly" airfields

[@Historically]

Yep, it was quite loud. It’s well known for it’s signature Vulcan Howl

[@duncanward1718]

I can tell you from experience, you don't hear a Vulcan take off. You feel the noise pounding against your chest.

[@bobswan6196]

@@duncanward1718 ... and all the car alarms going off

[@johnbirch7639]

The 'Atlantic' was the seed that ended as the Concord.

[@thombt963]

Typical British management style of the period, we’re definitely reaping what we sowed 😂

[@NickOakley]

...the Vickers V1000 later morphed into the Vickers VC10

[@awuma]

Or VC-7? That was how it was described and pictured in journals such as "Flight" and "Aeroplane" in the early-mid fifties. A sort of stretched and expanded Comet in layout.

[@tommcglone2867]

Given how the loud Vulcan howled the Atlantic would have never have survived noise abatement rules that began to be introduced in the 1970s.

[@jamesricker3997]

BOAC did the math The 707 was more cost efficient

[@robertwilloughby8050]

Oh yikes, that would have been EPIC! A Vulcan based passenger plane. Then again, the passengers would have needed ear defenders.....😉

[@philipgrice1026]

Military aircraft want maximum power so they tend to be noisy. Commercial variants would get quieter engines and suffer from some reduction in power but not enough to harm the flight capabilities. Pity BOAC ordered the Comet. The decompression failures damned that aircraft until the Comet IV became available five year too late resulting in Boeing and the USA assuming market dominance, I'd like to think an AVRO Atlantic would not have experienced a similar fate and could have brought Britain's aircraft industry the respect and profits it deserved. British companies like BOAC, with their conservative old boy network management are the reason I left Britain and moved to the USA where companies like Pan-Am and TWA took calculated risks and became more successful.

[@Otokichi786]

How would BOAC spin the backward facing passenger seats? More to the point, more than half of the passengers would see nothing but the huge delta wing, instead of scenery. Next, would the Avro Atlantic use the rectangular windows of the De Havilland Comet or design theoir own circular/oval ones? Finally, speed costs money in terms of fuel. How "fuel efficient" were jet engines of that time?

[@richiehale1545]

​​@@Otokichi786 The VC-10 had rear facing seats so It could not of been much of an issue

[@thhseeking]

And everybody on the ground :P Imagine how many take-ofs per day, all with that "Vulcan Howl" :P

[@kellybenschram4640]

I bet they would have built it now

[@chrissaunders75]

Rear facing seats was a standard feature on all RAF Trooping Aircraft.

[@Meechaw-13]

👍👍👍👍👍👍

[@maxhodgson4462]

So many missed opportunities....

[@alecjefferson6993]

Government should have made them buy it. No handing the market to the Americans. Like the rest of the British industry cars bikes etc. 🇬🇧🇬🇧

[@garypeatling7927]

The victor would have made a great airliner

[@eddiestevenson-kaatsch6306]

Boac? B. O. A. C. FFS!

[@hughthompson8018]

BOAC - Buy Only American Aircraft. Astonishing that the British National Flag Carrier was permitted to buy Boeing (principally) thus destroying the excellent British airliner industry. The Atlantic would have been streets ahead of the US Boeing 707 and capable of much further development. As it was the record breaking Vickers VC10 was ditched by BOAC in favour of US types.

[@adelestevens]

British Overseas Airways Coropration , B.O.A.C ,Boeing Only Aircraft Corporation. B.O.A.C had rather too many American Aircraft for some people and seemed to refuse to invest in the UK airliner industry.

[@Allan_aka_RocKITEman]

👍👍

[@peterjones596]

"Boac" is B O A C, British Overseas Airways Corporation... Hmm, I see Historically correcting and justifying themselves, I've never heard of Bo-Ack before... But, the airliner info is new to me... And that last flying Vulcan was based near to me, owned by some local farmers and businessmen, and it was great to see it fly before it went off to do an airshow...

[@kdrapertrucker]

Bombers never make good airliners. The things that make a good bomber are completely opposite of what makes a good bomber.

[@patfranks785]

I'd rather fly on a 737 than one of them.

[@jetmec]

Avro never built a jet airliner? Then what was the 146? and the RJ aircraft? Please get your facts right

[@Historically]

The BAe 146 was manufactured by British Aerospace and later BAE Systems, the Avro RJ was built by Avro International Aerospace, which is completely different from the Avro that built the Vulcan, Lancaster, etc. Avro International Aerospace was formed by British Aerospace in the 1990s. Avro (the original company) merged with Hawker-Siddeley, which later became part of British Aerospace, which is why they owned the rights to the name, and used said name when building the Avro RJ. But the Avro which I focus on in this video did not build a jetliner.

[@thedevilinthecircuit1414]

Tha Falkan Islands.

[@pumpkindog1]

Maybe, just maybe the 707 was a better airplane. Boeing built over 850 of them I think. That usually indicates some measure of the success of an airliner.

[@andrewmorgan1819]

The Comet cost them the race because of the square windows, square corners are stress raisers and Comets started to crack. By the time they swapped the design back to round windows, it was too late the reputation of the manufacturer was damaged. Then the RAF needed a replacement for the ageing Shackleton and the Mighty Hunter was born.

[@redlioness6627]

So do bribes!

[@andrewmorgan1819]

@Wallace Carney MRA4 was a f*ck up, BAe moneypit..

[@davidjones332]

@@andrewmorgan1819 If you go to the De Havilland Heritage Centre they will tell you that the square window story is actually bollocks. The problem was that De Havilland originally planned to bond the windows into the structure, but belatedly decided instead to rivet them. The fuselage structure of the Comet 1 was actually too fragile, and drilling hundreds of holes all over the place was what weakened it fatally and allowed the stress cracks to develop. The only reason De Havilland adopted oval windows in the Comet 4 was that it had to be seen to be different from its predecessor -they could easily and safely have bonded in square windows but the public would not have believed they'd fixed the problem.

[@andrewmorgan1819]

@@davidjones332 thank you for that, I've never heard that before, visual change makes perfect sense though.

[@uberbeeg]

😂

[@perrywales]

I've simply stopped watching the second I heard "bo-ack". If you can't pronounce the name right, why would you expect you audience to believe anything else?

[@walterrudich2175]

A delta wing on a subsonic aircraft is not a good idea.

[@manuwilson4695]

PINOCCHO CHANNEL!🤪..."Bo-ack" 🤣🤣🤣

[@Audioclass5]

Stud

[@Historically]

Stud

[@goldgeologist5320]

The initial animation is stupid waste of time and adds no value. Just saying!

[@johncunningham4820]

The De Havilland Comet was a Disaster . Beautiful , like most De Havillands , but DESPERATELY unreliable .

[@1davidsmall]

Oh, but we learned so, so much from it!

[@feldons5621]

john Cunningham Despite the early window issue the Comet did okay. It was sold to numerous international airlines and proved very reliable in old age-ask Dan Air London who had over 45 used examples.