The Frozen 2 we almost got

[@savannahatkins1488]

The problem is Disney will always be too safe... They touch on issues and more complicated characters but don't allow for the depth that would make their films masterpieces. Obviously this doesn't apply to all their films, but the most "marketable franchises" like Frozen really suffer from it

[@BrokensoulRider]

They stopped being bold and daring I would say... after the third Narnia movie. A lot of their movies since then haven't been as good.

[@BrokensoulRider]

@Julie Walker They wouldn't. They'd make Pleasure Island seem more innocent and for kids who were taken from their homes and families by force, rather than their own actions.

[@diegoleon582]

@@BrokensoulRider disney didn't make the third narnia movie!

[@diegoleon582]

@@BrokensoulRider theatrical animation is definitely something geared toward younger kids in North America because it's lucrative. Maybe if people actually paid more attention to more mature animated movies, studios would be willing to invest in different projects. I mean frozen itself was a gamble and nobody thought it was going to be that succesful.

[@BrokensoulRider]

@@diegoleon582 Yes they did. It's the fourth movie you're thinking about that got canceled.

[@SoapyWater813]

The thing they should have done with Kristoff and his arc would be to have Anna refuse his proposal at the beginning, but still have them stay together. Kristoff would understand her decision (because of her past) but would still be a little hurt by it. They could have replaced all of those awkward parts of him trying to propose with other scenes that they didn’t have time for, along with some much-needed Kristoff and Anna interactions.

[@weathering-the-storm]

The funny thing is that Disney actually did have a princess refuse a proposal. In Tangled the series, Rapunzel is given a coronation as princess for her return and Eugene proposes and she turns him down explaining how she's just not ready and he's really sweet about it saying he'd wait as long as she needed. I would have loved for Disney to explore Anna and Kristoff's relationship as maturely (give or take some with a grain of salt) as the did in Tangled the series. They could have explored so much with something like Anna refusing the proposal, especially after she had her whole song about never wanting things to change. Marriage does change things in a lot of ways. If they get married what does that mean for the kingdom, does Kristoff gain the title of king? Does he have any real power? would he want the power? There's a lot to consider.

[@VictoryReviews]

YES

[@torazely]

@@weathering-the-storm i was gonna bring up Tangled the Series but you beat me to it. Also, if Arendelle goes with the same rules as other European nations, Kristoff would gain the title of Prince as the royal consort of Queen Anna. Since she is the one with the royal blood, Kristoff wouldn't be allowed to have a title above hers, and most places have King as a title higjer than Queen. Example: Queen Elizabeth is married to Prince Phillip. She has the blood of the royal line, so he can't have a title of King in order to keep Elizabeth's title and authority as the highest in the land.

[@Dami_personal]

OMG yes

[@HelloHamburger]

@@weathering-the-storm It probably depends on the monarchy, but I believe Film Theory did some research and came to the conclusion that, no, any suitor(I hope I am spelling that word correctly) would not acquire any new title but just stay as they were while still being married. Their kids would be heirs/heiresses though.

[@ellakj]

Honestly the thing that was most confusing to me was how Elsa was supposed to be the “fifth spirit”. Like i kind of understand the self discovery journey aspect, but to me it just doesn’t make any sense. You have water, fire, air, earth and then ICE? I think it would have made more sense if Elsa finds out she’s like a bridge to the water spirit, and then finds three other people who are “bridge elements” to fire, air, and earth. It would have made for interesting interactions, and some dope ass magic scenes. They also tried to explain the magic. and while explaining the magic sometimes works, this time it felt pretty vague.

[@frauleinzuckerguss1906]

I feel like they tried to make it more obvious that Elsa is the 5th spirit by being able to outblow the tornado (snow storm), cool down the salamander and freeze the horse, thus taming it. But they dropped the ball by having Elsa not interact with the Earth giants at all, breaking the thread they were weaving between Elsa and every element. I think it did make sense for her to be the 5th spirit and a bridge between the spirits and humans through being able to connect with and tame them but, as with many other plot threads in this movie, they lost focus.

[@belenschneider1151]

I like to think that Elsa's powers are actually related to time and not ice, it's kind of a stretch but if you think about it it makes sense with the whole "water has memory" thing and also water with time (and temperature) becomes ice. So for some reason she has affinity to water but has the potential to connect like that with the rest of the elements.

[@spritemon98]

I was expecting more magic users when I saw the trailers

[@devilovesdevil]

That fith element junk was bs, ice isnt it's own element it's a bridge as you've said. I liked the idea the fifth spirit was calling out to her with her mother's voice to sound familiar to get her back as her role in charge of water.

[@skeltheshapeshifter2697]

I always saw the "ice" thing as a trippy inbetween for all of them. I mean, you can tie them all together, but it's a bit of a stretch. Ice's original form is water, cold winds (aka air) is what freezes the water into ice, ice is solid and can have structure and can be sculpted and made into things like earth, and can put out or fight fire/ fire can melt it, returning it to it's original form, in a kinda cycle thing. Again, not the most foolproof theory, but there's logic there. If you squint.

[@Crick1952]

The deleted scenes showing the more colonial focus was definitely a better basis for the movie, but there's still quite a weakness in the interpersonal interactions of the film. The fact that they were rushed is very clear and if they had just given them the time to come up with a good movie and then nostalgia-marketed the crap out of it, I'm sure the performance would have been great and we could have even looked forward to a trilogy instead of the bland meh the actual movie turned into with absolutely no interest in further continuations.

[@hunnybunny3211]

👍😉😌

[@elchapotheratchetcholo2353]

I think the colonial focus of the deleted scenes would have worked great IF the writers would have executed it properly. However, since execution can be difficult, the writers and producers perceived this as a significant risk, as poor execution of as cultural representation would have lead to significant backlash (like Pocahontas). Due to this perceived risk, I think they opted more for a safer route in creating the film.

[@BrokensoulRider]

@ I actually find Pocahontas to be my more favorite movie still. I loved it. And unlike back then, they had the money to do a proper deep-dive research and build up something that could have been real good and long-lasting. Disney got lazy. :|

[@GingerWizzard1994]

@ they tackled survivor's guilt, regicide/fratricide, destiny, xenophobia, social class, following responsibilities and PTSD in "The Lion King." They tackled race, social class, ableism, faith and lust in "Hunchback." They tackled racism, class divide and xenophobia in "The Fox and the Hound." They tackled an older teen sibling raising a younger sister after they were both orphaned, the trials of guilt on both her and the child as well as the complexities of life outside our planet in "Lilo & Stitch." They once again tackled racism, xenophobia and class divides, as well as drugs and fear mongering, in "Zootropolis." They tackled the effect of culture and nature being wasted and destroyed in "Moana." They tackled living with a disability and how bad parenting and lack of communication can affect lives in "Frozen." They tackled how love is forged through mutual care and respect, and how it is not held by mere appearance and glory in "Beauty and the Beast" They tackled race and the social divide in *1955* with "Lady and the Tramp." They tackled how grief can push one to either violence or compassion, even both, in "Big Hero 6." They tackled how difficult it is to be a single parent to a teenager, as well as how awkward it is to grow with parent that is only doing their best but you don't realize how in "A Goofy Movie." They tackled child endangerment in "The Rescuers" and animal conservation in "The Rescuers Down Under." They merged animation with classical music to create an animator's interpretation of what they hear to the big screen in "Fantasia." They tackled ableism, how parents deal with raising a child with a disability, as well living with and as using your disability as a strength in "Dumbo." They tackled respecting nature for all she is in "Bambi." They tackled the struggle of feral people being reintegrated into society in "Tarzan." Try again.

[@vibing6530]

@@GingerWizzard1994 😳

[@kikicogger2284]

I would love to see a “directors cut” of this movie with the original scenes. I think that would be the only way to truly judge. Also Olaf’s “what are the chances he’s also a psychopathic murder and will try to kill you” line is hilarious

[@the.muffin]

Thissss I would love to see what the story could've been - especially bc of how chaotic the making movie was

[@marycanary86]

if theyd let olaf say that hed have had to absolute moments in that film, the other being "samantha??" wouldve broken with his character to actually be justified on the screen TWICE...

[@Wiccanwolf08]

While I liked "Lost in the Woods" visually and comedically, I mourn the loss of "Get This Right". It is one of *very* few songs for an animated film where a protagonist sings about the love that they have for a person based on non-physical traits about said person; its even more rare for a male to do it. Kristoff does mention that Anna is "gorgeous", but he also says that she is "funny, brave, and brilliant" and "won't give up on anyone". Another thing I liked about this song is Kristoff being worried that he didn't deserve Anna BUT ALSO desiring to meet her standard. He feels lucky to have her by his side and he desperately wants to let Anna know this and do right by her. This is a sharp contrast to most animated love-struck characters (male and female) that just pine over their object of affection and want to simply claim them

[@KimberlyByrdV]

Yes! Thank you!

[@vctrsigma]

If it had fit better in the plot sequence, I would have taken "Get This Right" over "Lost in the Woods" in a heartbeat. Lost is campy fun, but GTR is simply magical.

[@garrettcarter5622]

I'm not sure "funny, brave, and brilliant" would have fit because I remember Anna being quite dim in the first movie.

[@anasofiacabrera8195]

For sure! I would definitely want to see this song in the movie

[@thunderbird1921]

Here's one other thing I thought of recently: Shouldn't ANNA have been the one to propose (to Kristoff)? After all, she's a princess (the Queen's sister), while he's just a commoner still. I say this because when Queen Victoria married Albert in Britain, she had to propose to him (rather than the usual other way around) because she was the reigning monarch while he was a lower ranking prince (from German Saxe-Coburg).

[@kaylemathewcomendador6964]

Certain deleted scenes really should have stayed in the final cut. Like Elsa’s dream, Anna learning that her parents were gonna talk about Elsa’s powers to her, Arendel getting destroyed (or at least part of it if the executives really wanted to play it safe in a way) and maybe a bit of the alternate prologue.

[@KeepCalmContemplateYourChoices]

They didn't destroy Arendelle because they're building a Frozen land in three of their theme parks. They don't want a different castle in the land than in the movie. Because that'd mean they'd have to rebuild what's already in construction.

[@KeepCalmContemplateYourChoices]

But, they could have just rebuilt Arednelle as it once was. They could've built it exactly like how it was before, and bam. Problem solved.

[@user-qh6gn8lf7k]

Yeah they could have just had a couple of vague confusing clips of the unknown mom running though the battle and then had the pay off later (maybe with the rest of the sequence) it wouldn’t be long enough to throw kids too far off and engage older kids trying to figure out the mystery

[@quinnfletcher3906]

I agree with a lot of what said, EXCEPT for the destroy Arendale part. The grandfather was an asswipe no doubt about that, but that is not the fault of the people of Arendale. They themselves have committed no crimes they should not be punished for the king's misdeeds. A key concept of colonization is destroying old things and building new things out of the rubble, and the point of this movie is that colonization is bad.

[@spritemon98]

I was honestly hoping for more magic users like Elsa

[@mimimagic1895]

Oh no no no no no, Elsa is the AVATAR SHES the best and blah blah blah 🤦‍♀️

[@spritemon98]

Well when I saw the girl floating In the wind from the trailer. I assumed she was able to control some amount of wind magic

[@spritemon98]

@CipherRage0909 I honestly would have liked that more with some of the magic users siding with the northerners against what was left of the army and maybe vice versa

[@spritemon98]

@CipherRage0909 sounds like a good idea.

[@skydog0_038]

Same I was hoping and expecting that too

[@IsaacIsaacIsaacson]

The fact that major studios regularly don't decide on movie plots until they've already spent tens of millions on production is insane.

[@francisco.mrsm.22]

I think the deleted scenes show the issue the movie had in picking a lane. On the one hand, the personal journey's got a lot more power bc it builds on the 1st, but the colonial story feels like it would've worked a lot better as a new film. And balancing this with all the other elements, it feels like they never got a break to pause and reconsider what to cut/condense.

Disney hired and incompetent crew and then forced crunch time on them! It's recipe for disaster. And people we're wondering what's wrong?

[@elchapotheratchetcholo2353]

Exactly. I think this was due to a 'time crunch' issue and the inability for the crew members to lead a clear direction for the movie.

[@shemakakiza4812]

Yeah, I feel like this could’ve been two great movies but they tried to throw in all their best ideas kinda haphazardly and they didn’t mesh well

@@shemakakiza4812 ideas are well and good but execution is the most important factor. You seriously think haphazard good ideas is worse? I mean zootopia wasn't delayed and it's still SHIT!

[@dcscruz2970]

@ Actually no. If you see the documentary behind the many movies of disney, the frozen 2 cast looked dead eye exhausted. They kept mentioning how disney wanted the movie out for Christmas/November yes or yes. Which means that they had to rush everything

[@raccoonja-ronja]

While I understand why they played it save with the sequel to their most popular film of the last years, some of the cut stuff deffinitly would ave made the movie more interesting. And the beginning having new characters confusing kids? Did they show it to two year olds? I mean they could have even rearanged it by starting of Anna and Elsa looking at a book of their mom that then tells us and then of what happend in the

[@spritemon98]

I'm honestly more surprised that they found kids who haven't even watched nor heard of the movie

[@spritemon98]

That would be a good idea

[@raccoonja-ronja]

@@spritemon98 I think this could have been just kids, who know the first movie screaming "Where is Elsa!?!"

[@spritemon98]

@@raccoonja-ronja and that is why they scraped this prologue and gave us the one we got to show off the cute young girls

[@spritemon98]

@@raccoonja-ronja kzbin.info/www/bejne/b2jOZGB4esx0a8k. Here you go

[@sailorenthusiast]

They should have made an animated series like the Tangled Adventures series instead. At least they would have had the time to slot in all the different subplots without it feeling muddled.

[@mintyfresh2357]

That- doesn’t sound like a bad idea.

[@awkwardorangedrawz5914]

Yup, that sounds nice.

[@lucagz6481]

I totally agree with you. One of the best things about Tangled Adventures is how it deeply connects with the movie itself, while expanding things and getting deeper into the lore and story of Rapunzel's powers and Corona's past. Frozen 2 tries so hard to be ambitious and explaning things, that it completly misses the points of the first movie. The best sequel always deeply connect with the events of the first movie, using the emotional impact of that story and the doubts left unresolved in a clever and powerful way, something that movie lacks of.

[@lukecorwin4589]

They still could, and I think it would be awesome! Kristoff could have issues with being royal after marriage. We could maybe learn that the spirits spared Arendelle so that it could make proper reparations to the Northuldra. We could also get more time with the other characters.

[@ellem4069]

That would have been amazing! All these ideas and songs they had for Frozen 2 would have been perfect for a TV series🤩

[@iemherrera1263]

There is one thing I sorta noticed about elsa character that I love and that is her hair. In the first movie when we meet her it's in a bun cause she's closed off and up tight and not wanting to trip up. Then in let it go she lets her hair fall in to her braid releasing herself a bit and letting it go a smidge. I say smidge cause she's not fully released because of of the feeling that she's missing something and wants to go and see what's out there and to find out more about the thing that could possibly relate to her. Finally in show your self she is able to see and realise what that missing piece is and is finally able to let go and let her hair flow without restraint cause she knows where she belongs

[@Orynae]

Yeah, it's not subtle at all, each time it happens at the climax of her big song.

[@funkyfranx]

No shit? This was kind of obviously the point

[@Let_Toons]

*She then shaves it in the tird movie to release it even more*

[@iemherrera1263]

@@Let_Toons that's when she reaches ultimate form 😂

[@learnerdecuriousqueen3320]

@@Let_Toons THAT GAVE ME A GOOD CHUCKLE LOL

[@MostlyAnimatedSketches]

I think... the film should have had a longer production. Then maybe they could find a compromise between all these ideas, and it would be awesome.

[@KeepCalmContemplateYourChoices]

But Disney _needed_ a thanksgiving release so they could make moneeeey

[@nadeen6968]

@@KeepCalmContemplateYourChoices thanksgiving, 2020/1

[@KeepCalmContemplateYourChoices]

@@nadeen6968 But then that would leave 2019 without a marketable Thanksgiving release! I mean, yeah, they had Toy Story 4 in the summer, but that's technically Pixar!

[@EyesWillRule]

The production team had nearly five years. If they couldn't settle on a script until five months before premiere, that's on them. They shouldn't have agreed to production otherwise.

[@KeepCalmContemplateYourChoices]

@@EyesWillRule It's FROZEN II. Denying making it would be outrageous. They probably were always thinking of making a sequel when they found out Frozen was a box office boom. But I agree on having a clear vision of the plot and script before going through with the movie. Of course, minor things will change, but before making the movie, bringing in the voice actors, animating things, they should have pretty much settled on the plot.

[@TheHero136]

_Arendelle is not a place. It’s a people._ Oh wait, wrong movie. Even though it would work thematically.

[@motomoto4361]

That's exactly what I thought when I first saw this movie in theaters around the part Arendelle was gonna get destroyed.

[@EyesWillRule]

If only the people were actually important to the narrative. None of them spoke, not even Oaken.

[@thatpitter]

Wait what movie is that from 😂 why do I all of a sudden not know it

[@motomoto4361]

@@thatpitter it's from Thor: Ragnarok

[@CenereRoses]

Oh hey, another awful movie that pales in comparison to the one that came before it. Thanks for reminding me of my pain.

[@basiccaucasiangirl]

I think the visuals during "Home" could've been something incredible. I feel like in Frozen 2, Ana is not her quirky, oddball self as seen in Frozen 1, and home could've really helped F2 out with that. We see her greeting the townspeople again. We see her happy, and interacting with different objects and locations in Arandelle. We can see her sense of humor again, like in 7:46 . In F2, Ana is pretty serious throughout this movie. She's distressed, annoyed, distraught, and not at all like herself for the majority of the film. She was my favorite character in the F1, but I feel like they sucked the energy and life out of her just to match the mood of the final narrative.

[@Sarah-hj4jj]

I liked Elsa more in F2. I felt like her character (Anna) was way out of character for her in some ways. She was paranoid, anxious, quick to jump to conclusions (mainly with Kristoff.) It just rubbed me the wrong way. I feel like we saw major growth and character with Elsa this time around.

[@jocelynecupcake]

I think she's still herself LOL Yeah I like her quirky, kind of personable side because that makes her seem more real than the other princesses. Same with Tiana, Merida, and Rapunzel. Except Anna's more like the "I can't stand a day without coffee and chocolate" type. To me, Anna seems like the Disney princess who's most fun to talk to and more relatable in something like that. Yeah, she's a little more stressed but she's worried about her sister and she wasn't the main focus in this so they weren't going to show her funny side. Also she's my favorite princess and favorite character in all the movies too.

[@mugiwaraprincess]

YESS, alongside with the fact that the song was so good!! It would've been an amazing addition to the movie TT

[@ShellySwirl]

@@jocelynecupcakei agree!!!!

[@dissonanceparadiddle]

It's really interesting when you see the beta of a project as something that might have been better. It's really painful sometimes

[@mattboy2313]

I feel like this with basically all of the non-sequel Pixar films released this past decade.

[@dissonanceparadiddle]

@@mattboy2313 wreck it ralph 2 for me was so off the mark I kinda wish it didn't exist as to mess up the cannon and characters. Except felix and Calhoun those two are perfect

[@miimiiandco]

*Cough Cough*, Brave

[@mattboy2313]

@@dissonanceparadiddleEspecially so, once you find out that the director originally wanted to make the movie focus on consoles and online gaming, expanding on the world of video games. You know, the MAIN CONCEPT OF THE FIRST FILM!

[@mattboy2313]

@@miimiiandcoAnd the Good Dinosaur. It also had a director with a unique vision, but ended up being fired and replaced with someone who tried to "simplify" the story. The 2 movies we have now are essentially the kiddy, watered down versions of much better films.

[@spritemon98]

Yeah... anna becoming queen was so out of nowhere for me

[@cintronproductions9430]

Yeah, and it only happened because Elsa pulled a Toothless, Woody and Vanellope and abandoned everyone else for a new place. XD

[@SkittleGirlTokyo]

Did we watch the same movie ? Lol it was obvious

[@brianapereira2694]

Elsa just ditched Arendelle, and Anna had no training to be queen. It would have been cool if there was a two-queen system and they had open contact with the Northuldra.

[@leenaofficial2143]

@@brianapereira2694 Elsa didn't "ditch Arendelle" by moving a block away. Anna was presumably trained with the basics of the monarchy too. You don't see her learn to, say, ride a horse or dance, yet she seems to be an expert at these in the first film

[@brianapereira2694]

@@leenaofficial2143 There is a huge difference between learning court life and learning to be the next queen/king/monarch. Elsa was always expected to be queen, so Anna never learned those lessons. In a deleted scene/song from the first movie, Anna wants to be "more than a spare." (Royal families with 2+ kids are said to have "an heir and a spare.") Since there was no reason for Anna to learn to be queen, she never got those lessons. Elsa no longer lives in or rules Arendelle. The Enchanted Forest is more than a block away; it takes an entire journey to get there. They don't exactly have cars, planes, or automatic transportation. So by all accounts, Elsa is not a part of Arendelle anymore if she has to travel just to get there or see her sister.

[@shadowpuppet8192]

I personally am still confused how their mom is North Aldrian. When she's young she is QUITE tan. As an adult, she is SO PALE.

[@nothankyou4269]

She never saw the light of day again after coming to the castle.

[@naomi7918]

They just added a story to the mom to make the movie work. They didn't plan on giving the mother an "Aldrian" background, back in 2013

[@shadowpuppet8192]

@@naomi7918 Then they SHOULD have done something different. Like maybe the actual spirirt took on the form of the mother to form some sort of connection. The north Aldrian girl that saved his life was their fathers best friend, and not their mom. Cause now it just shows they're grasping at straws to force something epic.

[@naomi7918]

@@shadowpuppet8192 Exactly. But because it is a kids movie they don't care if it makes sense or not

[@shadowpuppet8192]

@@naomi7918 Same thing was said about the rose and time in Beauty and the Beast.

[@spritemon98]

7:25 i.. wha.. but.. why...??? Couldn't they just get kids who've at least seen the first movie for the test screening?

[@piyam5000]

I'm surprised they could find kids who hadn't seen it! My daughter wasn't alive when it first came out and she loves it. We watched it a thousand times when she was small.

[@spritemon98]

@@piyam5000 I know! That's even more surprising to find kids who havent seen or at least have heard about it before. I'm glad your daughter loved the movie

[@Orynae]

I dunno, I was thinking they probably had seen the first movie, but depending on the age of the kids, they might be really bad with continuity. Like, maybe they had to explain that, yes, this _is_ the same world as the first time you saw these characters, but it happens _after_ the part you already saw. Cause I feel like Olaf's rapid-fire sarcastic summary wouldn't really be enough for a small child who hadn't seen the first movie 🤔

[@iwakeupandboomimarat]

to be fair some kids mightve watched it when they were extremely young, but that raises the question of why would they not rewatch it before screenings if they didnt remember what happened

[@KeepCalmContemplateYourChoices]

Also, the target demographic for the movie were kids who grew up watching Frozen 1, who would be in their early to mid-teens by now! I think they can handle seeing new and previously unseen characters. It just makes the movie more interesting.

[@Soshii19]

I’ll never understand the “fifth spirit thing” like GIRL snow is literally made out of water 😭

[@yussufmohamed1664]

Ice is solid. Not liquid

[@Soshii19]

@@yussufmohamed1664 but when it melts it’s water

[@treefrogg]

i guess you could say the bridge spirit is life, cuz of olaf but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@yussufmohamed1664]

@@Soshii19 so it shifts into liquid Ice and water are same but two different states

[@Soshii19]

@@yussufmohamed1664 i know, and you said so yourself it’s the same, it’s literally water

[@DororoXPenana]

Honestly if they kept the version where the grandfather's statue was present and the water coming to destroy Arendelle, showing everything get destroyed with emphasize on the statues destruction I feel that scene would have been so cool. Then showing everyone living together in peace, missed opportunities omg.

[@profwaldone]

Disney realy should take more risks these days, they have the money for a few flops and succeding would be amazing. Having a story about post colonials dealing with the fact they are post colonials would be amazing and seriusly lacking from todays media.

[@spritemon98]

They've had 2 massive flops in the last 2 years episode 8 and 9

[@CoolMagmar]

@@spritemon98 These aren't even flops, flops are only when the studio loses money not when the movie is bad, like the last SW movie made 4 times its budget, so in the company eyes it was a huge success. In reality, Disney can do anything they want and they will not hurt themselves at all but they are cowards and want all of the money, even the Good Dinosaur that sucks a lot and didn't even have good marketing, was removed super soon from theaters still made its money back

[@vanjagalovic3621]

@@CoolMagmar Yeah SW made 4 times its budget back, but Disney probably wanted it to make 10 times its budget back. It's modern day business, something has to continue being succesfull to be noticed by the investors.

[@GummyDinosaursify]

@@vanjagalovic3621 You're neglecting to add in all the merchandising and the fact it drew an audience into Disney+ to see The Mandalorian, which is more money + more merchandise. Just because it was critically panned doesn't mean it wasn't financially successful.

[@vanjagalovic3621]

@@GummyDinosaursify I'm not saying that it wasn't succesfull, but that it probably didn't meet expectations. Like you can have videogames that sell over 3 milion copies, yet they can still be considered failiures.

[@SaveMeMoon]

My biggest issue with the story was that it didn't feel... epic enough?? During Into The Unknown they set up this grand fantasy adventure but once they're on that adventure it just falls flat to me. The resolution to the voice was confusing and underwhelming, the stakes for the people caught in the mist didn't feel high enough and the characters' motivations seemed wavering through out. A lot of this definitely had to do with the entire film being re-written within a couple of months of the release but I honestly don't think this film would have don it for me even if they did go with the original script. I would have liked it way more but in the end I wish that Matpat was right in his theory for once, it would have been amazing if they went to Canada for this journey, I would have been sold on a story that was bigger than what we got.

[@thunderbird1921]

Honestly, the trailers made it look like this was going to be the Lord of The Rings of princess movies, and many thought that's what it was going to be. Instead we got...this.

[@applesas942]

I was mainly angry with Anna and Kristoff's relationship the entire movie. Kristoff tries to propose at idiotic times, and Anna doesn't act like herself around him? Also, Anna proposing is ten times more fitting, especially with the Anna gets newfound independence as queen arc. Like, it would have been perfect. I also don't like the idea with the lying horse because it makes Kristoff sound greedy. Like "I don't like being a Lord, I wanna be a King." It implies marriage in a weird greedy way. Edit: thank you to the person who mentioned that Kristoff didn't want to be royalty at all. That makes a lot of sense. That could have made the destruction of the kingdom even better so they could restart the society and have more equal dynamics rather than having royalty.

[@jasminecarter5164]

I've seen the cutscenes and some explanations before this video, and Kristoff not wanting to be a Lord has nothing to do with him wanting to be King. He doesn't want to be royalty at all. He's not happy with his new life in the kingdom. He loves his new family that he has with Anna, Elsa, and Olaf...but he's an orphan ice salesman who grew up in the woods. It's a very drastic change of pace for him, and honestly it makes sense. I genuinely believed this could have been tied into the racism elements of the old drafts, if handled properly and would have been a great tie in to Anna's arc. I'll get off my soapbox now.

[@BrokensoulRider]

I honestly don't think Kristoff wanted to be a king, either. It also seems, though, that I'm the only person who fucking hated Kristoff's song no matter what. It should've never been there. I'll take the original planned song any day.

[@EyesWillRule]

@@BrokensoulRider Good song, bad movie. It was a big-lipped alligator moment. The song was put in to give Jonathan Groff a song after he was shortchanged in Frozen I, not to forward the narrative.

[@EyesWillRule]

Frozen III should have them break up. Their relationship needs work. Anna needs to try to live without seeking others.

[@jasminecarter5164]

@@BrokensoulRider Not the worst song, but I didn't like it either. There are people in your corner, trust me. We're not the first people to complain. Big lipped alligator moment for sure.

[@CamsEyeView]

I think it's a mixed bag. Most animation fans would just assume you replace some scenes with those deleted scenes and it would be okay, which is not the case at all. Doing any changes to the story would mean major major overhauls to the entire story. You can't just reshoot a scene and call it a day. You have to make sure the scenes would weave and transition from one another in a sensible way. I think there was a base of a more interesting story, but there would still be problems. Now, would it have been a better overall movie? Probably. It would have been more mature and ambitious to say the least.

[@AlphaXXI]

How cool would it be to have a snyder cut equivalent of this movie, honestly.

[@RM-cn8pw]

That’s essentially what you got though.

[@jakespacepiratee3740]

@@RM-cn8pwthe final theatrical release was not that.

[@RM-cn8pw]

@@jakespacepiratee3740 It quite literally was though. The final release was the vision of the filmmakers. Which is what Zack Snyder’s Justice League was.

[@jakespacepiratee3740]

@@RM-cn8pw it didn’t sound like their idealized vision with how rushed it was.

[@RM-cn8pw]

@@jakespacepiratee3740 If six years is rushed, then I want to be rushed more often.

[@CutieTRP2121123]

This movie’s messages that just because everything’s changing doesn’t mean you’re not loved, things are scary but that’s ok, and when death/bad things happen you gotta focus on what’s in front of you, have gotten me through 2020. The version from the deleted scenes would’ve made a better movie, and I would’ve preferred it if 2020 didn’t turn out like this. But as we are, I’m so thankful they made the movie they did

[@Alucard2091]

I'm thankful for no more sequels from Walt Disney Animation tried so hard to be Dreamworks but failed.

[@nimrodpresente9949]

I also really like the message of the movie but it's really frustrating that it didn't mean anything because no one actually died and arrendle wasn't destroyed. You make the theme of "change" and not change anything.

[@velocireindeer]

@@nimrodpresente9949 exactly! This was my biggest issue with the story

[@lssproductions3180]

These alternate scenes sound like they would've helped the film and made it more interesting, especially since the biggest flaw was the structure and the disorganization of the plot

[@drewbear1969]

I'm not enough of a fan to have seen this yet, but it might have been interesting if "Home" and "Get This Right" were the first two parts of an early song, instead of complete songs on their own. Anna starts out optimistic about her future, then she's suddenly confronted with it when Kristoff proposes -- here's marriage, and family, and responsibilities. Whether or not she accepts, the third part could have been a mix of the two when she doubts herself and remembers how naive she'd been before. That's also the part that could be reprised later with a more confident message ("should I try" to "I should try"), from both herself as well as Arendell.

[@Metzli]

I love this idea!

[@purple1441]

Frozen II is such a 5/10 movie for me. I don't think it's bad, but I also don't think it's that great. Visually the best movie ever, structurally not so much. It could've been so much worse, but it also could've been so much better. I'm torn with this movie.

[@Jonathanest90s]

That’s too bad.

[@Object-Impermanence-Official]

Agreed!

[@spritemon98]

I'd say its decently meh overall? Not to bad but not that good

[@brianapereira2694]

I love the animation and the songs. The development of the characters + story was so weak.

[@purple1441]

@@brianapereira2694 EXACTLY!

[@Sweenymee]

The original cut sounded much more like the Sámi people from Norway's story. It was actually illegal to speak the Sámi language in schools here for a while in the 50's.

[@sori_osori_]

My personal theory is that Frozen 2 might have been originally planned as an animated tv series. Because weirdly it has some similarites with Tangled tv series in terms of plot (Finding the origins of power). So I have a feeling it was originally planned as tv series but later changed into a single movie. Cos some of the subplots, to me, felt like it would worked well as a part of a tv series rather tha a movie.

[@brianapereira2694]

I wish it were expanded either into a show or two movies. This one was too rushed.

[@KazuhaEien]

I think it would work better as a series, the subplots would be better paced and executed, and it would be really cool if they could keep the deleted scenes as lots of modern cartoon shows have really DARK moments (looking at you, Gravity Falls and Infinity Train...) I would infinitely prefer if Frozen went the Tangled route instead of being the most unbearably overrated movie of all time. I really like your Kyubey icon also, Madoka Magica is life.

[@jocelynecupcake]

Don't speak too soon, they might still take that turn. As much as I don't think it fits well with the story, people sure do love that Tangled animated series. To me, it seems more like something a fan would make but you know... who am I to judge? I heard a few years back they were turning Frozen into a tv series. I also heard they were going to make Elsa the first lesbi Disney queen but that never happened because Disney queens don't need love interests unless they already have them. also I had no idea Gravity Falls was Disney LOL xD thought it was Cartoon Network

[@Mathmachine]

You know it's officially nearing the Christmas/Winter holidays when you start seeing Frozen videos again.

[@spookyho5994]

yup and I’m totally here for it

[@theflickchick9850]

I’m glad how you called out how easily they called out their ancestor’s racism. It annoyed me how they looked at a high-ranking official of a racist’s army, said- “Your leader was racist.” and he legit just...believed and agreed with them. That got me so mad.

[@thunderbird1921]

Heck, are we also really supposed to believe that NOT ONE soldier knew about this murder of the chief? Come on. What they should have done is revealed Mattias to be a part of it as well all these years, along with some of his men (maybe even wanting a Northuldra genocide). That would have been FAR more realistic and believable (since sadly countless war crimes like this have been committed over the centuries). Mattias could have been like General Zod in Man of Steel: "Every action I take, no matter how violent or how cruel, is for the greater good of my people". He then tries to stop Anna from destroying the dam, but she succeeds. Afterwards she and Elsa furiously place Mattias under arrest for his crimes, finally making peace with the Northuldra (as this would be REAL justice). It would have been a MUCH better story.

[@RM-cn8pw]

I seriously doubt that it did

[@universaltears6297]

"No wonder it feels like he has better chemistry with dipper" When I tell you the noise that came out of my mouth-

[@ballisticnerd2097]

I remember when Frozen 2 had just been barely announced, there were rumours that said that Hans was going to come back. Of course this was early on, and was definitely dropped in the beginning, but personally, I would have loved to at least, see some kind of conceptualization of this idea.

[@lucagz6481]

From my personal point of view, the biggest problem with this sequel is how much disconnected with the previous movie is, and Hans is a major part of this issues. Because, while the whole mistery behind the parents decisions and the origins of Elsa's powers are interesting, the events of the first movie are focused on a totaly different matter. The whole idea behind the sequel is interesting, but it doesn't totally connect with the characters and they past experiences. It doesn't feel like an organic expanction of the world we have known in the first movie. It is no wonder why the sequel spends a lot of time making costant references to the first movie and messing up character arcs: it forces the story to talk about major changes, completly new elements.

[@emily.gramley]

I had heard that Hans was going to have some kind of redemption and I saw a video theorizing that the real villains were the trolls and they’d used magic to make Hans turn on Anna so that Kristof could take the throne. I honestly would have loved to see a sequel about something like that. Or really about anything pertaining to what happened in the first movie.

[@mattknauf3996]

the stupid dam is what gets me. you can take down a dam without destroying it in one go and creating a tidal wave destroying your flipping home.

[@dubbingsync]

But is taking a few bricks out as dramatic as giants throwing boulders at it? No... no it’s not. But you’re not wrong.

[@dandelion_fritters]

In Show Yourself I would have appreciated the answer to the source of the voice at least. In the cut scene, it was her future self calling, but it could have been the part of her 5th spirit self that was calling, and could only speak with scenes of the past(mom singing and the freeze time statues), and body language. Really wish that they would have had more time to develop the movie or just go the way of Tangled Adventures.

[@bendykirby4828]

0:30 The fact that "comedy" is on both sections is my favorite part in the image.

[@lydibug4849]

I heard somewhere that in "Gotta Get This Right", Kristoff takes FOREVER to get to the point and just pop the question, so Anna ends up being the one proposing to him!

[@TheSandra1199]

I Think the deleted scenes are setting up a more interesting movie. And It’s sad that they couldn’t keep them in. I Think they wanted to do too much with the story to make it into a movie. It might actually have been better as a series. Or perhaps a longer movie. But of course disney wouldn’t allow a longer movie because as we all know It’s impossible for a child to keep focus for more than an hour and a half. 😒😑🙄

[@SupremeLeaderKimJong-un]

Disney is continuing to make sequels yet they haven't even made one about me yet smh

[@spoofyartz5079]

Hello Kim Kong un

[@thebigm8052]

Hello Winnie the Pooh

[@rowboat10]

Hello Olaf the Snowman from Frozen II

[@Caitluz]

I honestly think they should have added "home" to the end of the movie, after Anna becomes queen! I feel like it would fit really well and would have been a nice happy song for the final one

[@tastymiku]

I feel like the writers just didn't really know what they wanted from Frozen 2 honestly. Like they seemed confused on the target audience because they tried to add in darker and more complex elements a details for older audiences but didn't go all the way with them to keep it simple enough for younger kids, and they seemed confused on their subplots and themes there were so many of them and over half of them feel half baked. They just tried to do waaaay to much at once and it ended up being kind of a jumbled mess from a plot/writing perspective.

[@CloverLovesTT]

it’s been over a year and i still cannot take frozen 2 seriously. it feels like such a fanfiction.

[@hunterolaughlin]

There’s a lot of old nostalgic films that have felt like they were fanfics written by fanfic writers. Space Jam, for example, feels like the ultimate fanfic movie.

[@normadgarmez7026]

That's because it is. Disney had it right the first, but said screw it we're playing it safe for money's sake instead of making a masterpiece like Tangled, The Little Mermaid and Snow White

[@tristanneal9552]

If you think about the “frozen heart” thing from Frozen 1, which looks identical to Elsa freezing in this film, it makes total sense that the sins of her people’s past were so horrifying that they literally froze her heart.

[@leoniefortune-canon7965]

It should have gone Battle as opening scene, some things never change(with grandpa statue at end) , blah blah charades, I'm gonna get this right, sleep- into the unknown, dreams to crystals, trolls with ominous foreshadowing, blah blah getting there, ooh spooky- yay they're cool (gasp its the guy from the opening), when I'm older, blah blah cute stuff, lost in the woods, finding boat- magical journey, super cool horse fight, show yourself, freeze/next right thing, blah blah Anna and Kristof, everything happens like normal but Arendel gets destroyed (disney gets profit), parents and anna, cute hug and goodbye, happily ever after because elsa is a horse girl who lives in the forest now and her sister is queen, credits role

[@leoniefortune-canon7965]

But that's just in a perfect world where they actually got the proper amount of time to make a movie with good pacing and proper character building.

[@spritemon98]

Sounds better

[@disappointed2349]

My biggest issue was how there were no bad consequences to _anything._ They didn't carrying through with anything in a satisfying way (for me at least). I walked out of the theater just thinking "Elsa should've stayed dead," and over the course of the past year, I've thought about it more and more, and why I felt that way. It was for the reason I mentioned before, and also imo it kind've cheapened what i was getting from 'the next right thing'. I _wanted_ to see Anna get back up, destroy everything she ever knew, because it was right. And then help build the kingdom back up brick by brick with her people, because it was right. Even though it was hard and she'd be grieving, it was her duty and the right thing to do. Instead, 0 consequences. Elsa comes back to life, the kingdom is saved, anna is queen, kristoff proposes, and everything is good. And that just,,,, irks me. It seems like it's making a show of "haha, we're the good guys so no lasting bad can _really_ happen to us. Also, Ik it's at the end of the movie, but there's no interaction between Anna and Elsa that helps or even really acknowledges Elsa's tendency to push people away and things herself, Elsa's communication issues, and/or Anna's anxiety and dependence. The closest I felt that we got to this was Olaf asking if this was gonna be a regular thing and Elsa saying no. So keeping her alive didn't really solve any of their underlying problems. To me, the story moved slow in the beginning and super fast at the end, and nothing _really_ happened (best way for me to describe it is that both a lot and nothing happened at the same time), yeah, they saved the forest and Anna became queen, but there was no satisfying conclusion or consequence and it kinda ruined the story (again for me). It was a beautiful movies, I loved most of the songs, but,,,, it just didn't work the right way for me. Obviously, other people will feel differently from me, and I kinda feel bad because I know they were rushing and there're limits in production, plus "it's a kids movie" and you can't sell toys of a dead character, but I had to get this out there. Sorry if this seems like a rambly mess.

[@normanzsvsp]

Agreed

[@ltericdavis2237]

I really think the way the plot of Frozen 2 went would have worked immensely better as the plot of a season of a TV show. The adventure plot is just screaming a television adventure plot and the additional time would have helped the development.

[@AverytheCubanAmerican]

"the water horse fight is boss" spitting facts

[@rosieg6989]

Oh yes, I would spend big money to get it properly animated and pieced together. I probably also would change Honeymaren’s final line of “you belong here with us.” To “you belong here with us and, and with me.”

[@SophieGDough]

I as someone who liked Frozen 2, I really wish that pretty much all of these scenes were in the movie Release the Lee Cut

[@mattheww1072]

I hope they release a documentary of that one cancelled film "Gigantic". Would have loved to see all the concept art and songs for it

[@thetrfh]

The fifth spirit is Elsa AND Anna. The fifth spirit is the bridge between magic and humanity and because a bridge has two sides the fifth spirit has two embodiments. Anna is the side of the bridge that represents humanity and Elsa the side that represents magic. It's literally explained in the movie, why does everyone forget about it?

[@BuizelCream]

Mostly because Anna does not have powers, and the 5th spirit title easily suggests a person or entity, not two. It's a thing that is easily missed, unfortunately 🤔

[@Wiccanwolf08]

@@BuizelCream Except Elsa says this rather bluntly after Anna says that she is the fifth spirit. "Well, actually, a bridge has two sides. And a mother had two daughters. We did this together. And we'll continue to to do this together." So it's weird when people pick up on Anna's statement, but miss Elsa's "well, actually" that comes immediately after that.

[@BuizelCream]

@@Wiccanwolf08 I know right! 😅 Especially when Anna has already shown her side of the role as part 5th spirit being the one who destroyed the dam to bring the tragic history to justice, thus reuniting the divide that kept humanity (Arendelle) away from nature (Northuldra). I guess Elsa naturally gets all the spotlight because her arc in the sequel of finding answers of the meaning of her being was more visually integrated with the movie's arc of finding the truth about the past. Anna had her own arc of accepting change, but it was mostly shown from the sequel's runtime by her learning to let Elsa go. If only the film could have shown more in action her concern about the past and the consequences of change when truths are exposed in equal weight with her concern she might lose Elsa to it. Anna's not-so-visually-displayed (until the final act) thematic cohesion compared to Elsa's might explain why most people are unable to automatically buy that Anna is also part 5th spirit. 🤔 Those who do get it are more perceptive, frankly speaking. 😉

[@brianapereira2694]

I thought it was that Elsa was the 5th element, but that the bridge between the spirit and human worlds was a separate thing and was both Elsa and Anna.

[@BuizelCream]

@@brianapereira2694 Honeymaren (the new young female Northuldra character) says that the 5th spirit IS said to be the bridge to both magic of nature and mankind. So in essence, Elsa and Anna are both the 5th spirit representing each side of the bridge.

[@_gremlinboy]

This is just why capitalism chokes art lmao- they tried to churn this movie out too fast and it ended up feeling thrown together and disorienting at times because they simply didn't have time to fully flesh it out. And it's tragic because it's really beautiful and if the story had made sense and the climax was building like it should have, the scene with Elsa freezing (along with every other good scene) would have hit so much harder. It takes so many revisions to write a nuanced story that can be consumed by children and trying to rush it like they did was really not the way

[@RM-cn8pw]

Capitalism didn’t choke this movie at all though. Maybe don’t make crap up? “they tried to churn this movie out too fast” I’d hardly call six years later too fast, dumbass.

[@RM-cn8pw]

“and trying to rush it like they did was really not the way” You’re right that it was not the way, in that it isn’t what happened. They didn’t rush it at all.

[@darrelsam419]

Let's not blame bad writing and rushed schedule on capitalism as a whole. Let's blame it on corporate Disney being stupid and trying to squeeze every last drop out of the cash cow. Capitalism is okay in small amounts like in small local businesses, but bad when in corporation form.

[@RM-cn8pw]

@@darrelsam419 Well you shouldn’t, considering there was no bad writing or rushed schedule. “Let’s blame it on corporate Disney being stupid and trying to squeeze every last drop out of the cash cow.” Ok, 1. I’d hardly call making an additional movie trying to squeeze every last drop out of something. 2. You know Frozen 2 was made because the creators wanted it, right?

[@_gremlinboy]

@@RM-cn8pw you should take a break from white knighting for disney lol they don't need your help I promise

[@septesix]

I like the story in the film better but I can see why people wanted a film based on those deleted scene, with one exception : I am so glad they didn’t do Kristoff’s story that way because I absolutely hated it. Specifically, I hated “Hard Nokk”. The idea of a wild man not fitting into the court life is just so cliched and overdone that I couldn’t bear the thoughts of Kristoff being handed this tired plotline. The film version , while imperfect , is at least something different and interesting. I very much prefer it indeed

[@taylorboney1089]

While the original plan for kristoff is really cliched I would’ve preferred it over him just trying to propose to Anna for most of the movie.

[@annieandelsieofarendelle3294]

Taylor Boney I wish they could’ve done something in the middle where Kristoff is afraid of embarrassing Anna if he becomes the Prince of Arendelle but is willing to learn all he needs to because he loves her but in then end, Anna tells him she loves him because he is honest and blunt so he doesn’t need to change

[@mA-nd1xr]

This video should be an educational video about storytelling and foreshadowing and how to fail at it, so that future storytellers can learn from these mistakes, after all, that's why mistakes happen

[@hazey_dazey]

i wish Disney would just...give their films more time. Let the creators work stuff out naturally to make the movie as great as it can be. i get that you need a deadline, but why not push it back if things still need work. it’s not like they can’t afford it

[@godslaughter]

Honestly, merging these with the theatrical cut could result in something really freaking good. Just mentally doing it is pretty interesting, I'm at least glad they decided to show the deleted scenes because this shows a completely different side of the narrative, and I must admit, the majority of them were really freaking good. Also, the whole Kristoff subplot was so badly executed that a) the actual message and growth were completely lost to me b) it was unbelievably stretched for no reason c) it was basically nonsensical in terms of a proper relationship I was watching this with Mum and I was like "Mum, imagine if you one day went to the store without telling us and then your partner was like NOOOO WE'rE GROwiNG APART, HOW COulD THis HAvE HAPPENed" It's just ridiculous. I have never even been in a relationship before but I can tell that this makes zero sense.

Agreed, ever since 2010 Disney doesn't make a lick of sense and don't give a damn. I take a princess movie over these any day of the week! You know what's the only good thing about zootopia is?(launching Madeleine Curry)

[@AtlasAdratica]

Man I agree that they followed up poorly with the romantic subplot. It was the most frustrating because their relationship dynamics were never resolved and on other sadly weak subplots the soldiers I think were in the same boat. Realistically they both had friends or brothers in arms fall to the other right? The fact that they were just ok due to the Queen showing up seems...unlikely to me. I may just be a bit picky but I truly would have loved to see a more cohesive film because I wanted to see these characters grow.

[@spritemon98]

@ I'm gonna have to try that but which should I watch first? Pocahontas or frozen 2?

[@spritemon98]

I can definitely argue that the deleted scene for zootopia with Judy talking with her parents over the phone was so much better then how they made her parents look like assholes

[@maldon3659]

True, but then they would have to remove the scene where Nick stands up to Bogo and replace it with the scene where Nick meets Judy's parents which I thought wasn't as strong as the Bogo scene

[@spritemon98]

@@maldon3659 I have not seen that one yet

[@maldon3659]

@@spritemon98 here it is for your viewing pleasure kzbin.info/www/bejne/g5-rZWmkpp2al9E

[@spritemon98]

@@maldon3659 thanks

[@spritemon98]

@@maldon3659 okay. I absolutely died laughing when her father assumed nick was her boyfriend 🤣. Overall that scene was very sweet and wholesome. I'm glad her parents are actually worried about her

[@sarafontanini7051]

having Elsa and Anna's grandpa as an active villain would've made for a stronger story, I think. Either as like some sort of supernatural entity, or just as a still alive mortal man or something.

[@catelynh1020]

My takeaway from this video: The original intent of the film was to continue the themes and depth of the first movie but add some maturity to keep adults interested. What the film ended up being was something watered down because children didn't immediately get hooked. Merchandise sales counts for something like 60-70% of income for a franchise, so the execs cared more about that than the message of the film. I believe i remember something about how in kingdom hearts iii all signs pointed to elsa being taken over by darkness and her being the final battle in that world, but hans being thrown in at the last minute for like 2 minutes of gameplay because disney didn't want people to associate elsa with bad. Or that it was the original intent of the first movie but was changed last minute and the production of the game was left floundering. Overall, the frozen series seems to be a struggle between what people think kids can handle and what kids can really handle.

[@catelynh1020]

@@unicornbunny5439 heck, even the end of tarzan and snow white. We're really babying our kids.

[@Surgehero5136]

Elsa definitely felt liked she stayed the same as a character because she’s constantly rejecting Ana ‘s help in solving the mystery of the voice calling out to her. I loved the way the first one ended, it wasn’t some guy that saved any of them but each others love and I was kinda disappointed with the route they chose to take in frozen 2, it felt more of an Elsa show because she had to find herself( which isn’t a bad message) but I never felt like Elsa needed to go off on her own to find herself. Ana and Elsa are great together, they’re a great team and Elsa without Ana wouldn’t be as good. They’re relationship, to me, is the core of the story and to not follow that in the sequel felt like a bad move because now they can get back the relationship they had before Ana got her mind wiped of Elsa ‘s powers.

[@OsmSkylandersCheats]

I was hoping that Frozen 2 would be based of 90s Renaissance Disney Princess films, like how the first was based of classic Disney Princess Films

[@879SCSP]

I think the movie could have combined all its points together nicely if it made it a story about growing up and finding who you really are. Yes things are amazing and happy, but adulthood is complicated and messy and you learn hard truths about who you are. They could have had Elsa represent the memory, the need to know the past, even if you ultimately get lost in it. While Anna could represent the desire to move on, wanting to move forward and ignore her trauma. Even Kristoff could have shown this too by "growing up" in finding his true identity in the middle ground of rugged mountain main and royal lord (which could have made Lost in the Woods so much more thematically bomb) and maybe even have him learn more about his own family. I think the plot should have gone something like this: Elsa hears a voice, making her think her mother is alive. Wanting to know more, she makes the journey and leaves Anna in charge, which scares her since she doesn't feel ready. Suddenly, all hell breaks loose with the spirits. Anna, Kristoff, and Olaf decide to follow Elsa and tell her what happened. She reveals her real reason, and the group enter the woods. They are greeted by the spirits and meet the northuldra. The learn about the fifth spirit, a connection between the world of magic and humans. Elsa thinks it could be their mother, and she makes a plan to go to Atahollan to find her and save everyone. Anna wants to join but Elsa thinks it's too dangerous. The girls fight and are separated. Anna does some soul searching and begins to uncover the mystery of the night the curse began. She finds out her grandfather was evil and built the dam which caused the curse. However, she can't act because she's unable to make a decision that big. Eventually, Elsa reaches the island singing a shorter version of "Show Yourself" only to learn that the voice was a memory of her mother, and that her mother is really dead. She breaks and her grief swallows her accidentally freezing her. Anna is concerned once Olaf starts turning to snow (make him like a timer for how long Elsa has got) and have her fight her grief through "The Next Right Thing" until she makes it to Atahollan and snaps Elsa out of it, making her unfreeze, showing her accepting her grief. A vision appears and tells them the wrongs must be righted, Anna, realizing she was strong enough to save Elsa, decides she is strong enough to take action: the dam must be destroyed even if it destroys Arendelle. Elsa, Anna, and Kristoff work together to break the dam and keep the people safe. It works, though Arendelle is destroyed. However, the spirits appear showing Anna and Elsa have passed their test. We hear them (and the girls parents) singing Show Yourself" as Arendelle is rebuilt and Elsa becomes the Snow Spirit. With her new powers, Elsa realizes that they are both the fifth spirit, creating a bridge between humans and magic. Elsa realizes however, that she can't be queen anymore, she belongs with the other spirits. Anna understands, and says that as the bridge, they'll always be connected. Elsa makes Anna the Queen. She leaves and we get the OG ending with the statute and Elsa and Anna sending notes to eachother. Happy Ending.

[@Green.Star_ks]

Some the deleted scenes I like (Secret room, Elsa’s dream, and alternate ending) but the first 2 would have taken more time which means it would have taken long to actually get to the forest. And while I don’t think the castle should have been destroyed, it would have been nice for Elsa to show Anna the ice memory of her parents

[@whoopsah6028]

When Anna became queen I was so confused, like why? They didn't even give us hints about how Elsa preferred the forest to Arendelle

[@thunderbird1921]

That plot point came out of nowhere. Couldn't she have still fulfilled that role as Queen? After all, some of the greatest peacemakers have been kings or queens (Louis IX of France for example). Maybe it would have been too similar, but I feel it would have made much more sense to make it like Toy Story 2. The tribe points out their oppression, and tell Elsa their concerns about her being eventually hated by the people of Arendelle. The Chieftess then says "It's your choice, Elsa. You can go back, OR you can stay with us, and be respected forever". Elsa then must decide her future by the end of the film.

[@camizl3r230]

any time i see these deleted scenes I have to scream into a pillow because there is a FANTASTIC movie trapped in there

[@maldon3659]

This movies production was messier than the Black Cauldron's

[@KeepCalmContemplateYourChoices]

That's a _bold_ claim

[@maldon3659]

@@KeepCalmContemplateYourChoices can you name another animated film made recently that went through the same kind of production trouble as Frozen 2?

[@KeepCalmContemplateYourChoices]

@@maldon3659 I was saying that because The Black Cauldron's production was _jacked up._

[@maldon3659]

@@KeepCalmContemplateYourChoices oh I know, I've seen some of the deleted material for the film, I was comparing the 2 productions because of how confused they were about what they wanted the films to be

[@1992disney]

The first Frozen movie's production was really messy as well ever since Let It Go was written and it was ultimately decided that Elsa was "so much better off" being a "misunderstood heroine" instead of a villain as she was originally supposed to be.

[@tristanneal9552]

“Gotta Get This Right” is 1000x more endearing and catchy than Kristoff’s 80s rock song that ended up in the final.

[@Angela1111122222]

Hey Hey hey Respect lost in the woods I don't remember when I laughed so hard watching a movie Jonathan Groff is perfect for this kind of thing

[@dubbingsync]

@@Angela1111122222 I just love that they went hard 80s music video during that segment. My cheeks hurt from smiling during that song

[@Angela1111122222]

@@dubbingsync It was the perfect parody of every love song in any musical

[@Angela1111122222]

@@dubbingsync I'm pretty sure it was supposed to have high school musical vibes

[@hunterolaughlin]

Naaaahhh! Who's gonna remember and be singing "Gonna Get This Right" for years anyways?

[@littlesparrow303]

Ohh gosh why didn’t they show the test screening to teen/young adults?! If the children never watched it we could have gotten this. I know I hate that they can’t accept new characters from the start.

[@kathrynvincent1563]

Frozen 2 feels like it’s trying to be a sequel and a third movie. A lot of promise but struggled with direction

[@2l84me8]

The problem with Frozen 2 was it was written as a children’s movie and not a family movie.

[@EvanSol919]

Frozen II felt like a retcon. One line in "Let it Go" is "the past is in the past" but now it's all about the past. It tries to make the parents more sympathetic but actually made them worse. And it tries to explain Elsa's magic but just made it convoluted rather just having it be magic like in other Disney movies.

[@aislingbradshaw4870]

The best line I've heard to describe this movie is: "it's more for adults" because it's main problem is it trying to connect with adults while trying to entertain kids. Which is where we get the quick end of bringing everyone back and saving erendale,just to please kids. The movie was good until the very obvious kid scenes came squashed in

[@MichaelAarons1701]

I disagree that Arendell should have been destroyed at the end. It equates the kingdom, which is comprised of people never before having been involved in those actions up north to have their homes obliterated for the crimes of a few or the one, all to get some sort of justice? The idea already reeks of _Thor: Ragnarok_ with the idea that someone was wronged by a monarch and now the current heir has to right the wrong by letting the place get destroyed, but don’t worry, at the least the people remain to forge a new Asgarendell. Maybe if it was only the palace that got mussed up, that would at least meet halfway because the palace does symbolically represent Elsa’s old prison where she spent all those years in isolation and this sequel heavily represents the true casting of her shackles (if a bit selfishly) to leave not just the room she shut herself up in but the whole throne. Plus, with Anna ascending as the Queen to take over for her absent sister, do we really want her first challenge to be rebuilding an entire town while dealing with all the now homeless or just a simple castle where she lived and listened to all those lies about her grandfather while dealing with the small things that one song would have shown her being aware of? At least then you meet halfway on the Do or Don’t and can still allow Disney to at least sell the new castle playset.

[@bobbob2932]

I agree about Arendell. Having it be destroyed would also send a bad message that reparations mean losing everything, that it means the destruction of your home and your culture. Instead the message was that making amends isn't as painful as it's made out to be.

[@MichaelAarons1701]

Thank you. Because after I posted that it also occurred to me I should have made the point that it promotes reciprocity by essentially returning hate with hate and that the kingdom has to suffer because the others suffered. The Northuldrans seem stuck in a time warp while Arendelle was free to move on so really all that can be done is make the symbolic action by breaking the one thing: the castle, at most since it represents the wicked king. Plus, the dam only effected Northuldra’s resources so why then should Arendelle be straight up destroyed?

[@KeepCalmContemplateYourChoices]

@@bobbob2932 But in the final version, Arendelle suffers no consequences, except for having a queen who's dead for one night.

[@KeepCalmContemplateYourChoices]

@@bobbob2932 In the deleted scene, it only shows the castle getting destroyed. Not the village.

[@thefanwithoutaface8105]

@@KeepCalmContemplateYourChoices Because this Arendelle had nothing to do with what happened in the past. None of them knew any of what happened, why should they have to suffer for what some asshole many of them never knew did 100 years ago.

[@ArtouriousMM]

I really love Frozen 2, but as with basically every movie there are so many Very Good ideas in the deleted scenes and storyboards. Especially the official parting ways scene and the bits going harder on the cultural revisionist path. I think the movie would have been better with more emphasis on the theme of acknowledging your racist past! But despite its shortcomings and missed potential, Frozen 2 still one of my favorite movies I've ever seen.

[@shepard2148n7]

I think "HOME" could have still been used as one of the possible songs in the epilogue. maybe an expanded ensemble song in the same vain as "Some Things Never Change, where Anna is still the lead singer, but all the characters come back in for the final number as well". Keeping the Arendelle destruction plot line, "HOME" could have been set up as the montage number of rebuilding Arendelle with Anna stepping into her official role as queen. Her "Home" being the new home her and her people have built after it was washed away, rather poetic. Her final verse "I'm Home" is a gorgeous resolution to a song after the full ensemble comes in (Listen to the song if you want to understand what im talking about). If it was placed differently i feel it could have still worked, but also im saying that because it's my personal favorite of the cut songs. I mean its mostly acoustic guitar, could have made Kristoff play his lute while Anna sang.

[@cmcwar]

I swear, everyone is using “Road to El Dorado” memes now and I love it

[@meredithinthemaking4195]

Stars. Can’t do it. Not today.

[@jocelynecupcake]

Chicken Run beats Road to El Dorado by 10000000x

[@jocelynecupcake]

@Elalae La Chicken Run is more my thing because as a straight girl, I am more interested in watching an inspirational movie about a chicken with a broken wing who helps other chickens escape from a farm than a movie about a gay couple trying to find a road

[@_soswii]

17:29 I think the same!! Show Yourself felt so empty compared to Let it Go.. I think it would be better that if from the start or the middle of the plot in this second movie they showed up that Elsa's powers were a curse that the spirits gave to her mother because of saving their father (like if it was a betrayal to the northultra people for saving a prince of Arendell, someone who started a war against their people) And if this were revealed when the icy memories of their parents showed up in their broken ship it would be a great impact on Elsa, maybe even thinking about suiciding to end with the anger of the spirits and even almost dying because of the sea horse, but she end up arriving to the Ahtohallan because of the waves and then the song starts with her laying on the ground being miserable but at the end learning that her powers are not a curse but a bleesing to save the people,, Propabily no one is gonna read this but *sobs

[@vctrsigma]

"A beautiful mess" I feel like these are the words I have been missing.

[@antonizajkowski9698]

Frozen 2 is honestly so bad. There's no story structure, no character development. It's just a waste of time; although the graphics are nice.

[@antonizajkowski9698]

@The Mandalorian I disagree

[@antonizajkowski9698]

@The Mandalorian Okay, well I disagree

[@antonizajkowski9698]

@The Mandalorian Hahahh

[@joosoo]

Best to watch it on mute and make it a screensaver really lol

[@BioLivbanon]

The first one as well! But at least the story is slightly more straight, so you can at least follow it...

[@spritemon98]

I was honestly expecting for christof? To get together with Ryder. Their chemistry works very well together

[@Jonathanest90s]

You mean Ryder?

[@spritemon98]

@@Jonathanest90s the native kid who also talked to reindeer.

[@anskeyfamily9064]

oh but Disney wouldn't dare have a main character be lgbt+ ://

[@spritemon98]

@@anskeyfamily9064 this is definitely true

[@awesomealiza4351]

@@anskeyfamily9064 they did in the owl house and andi Mack on the Disney TV network but I doubt they'd do it in a movie ( even though I want them to)

[@rml2765]

Although I love the idea of Anna turning Kristoff down I wonder if it would’ve gotten criticism for being similar to the subplot in Tangled the Series where Eugene is turned down by Rapunzel

[@thunderbird1921]

You know what's funny? Why doesn't Anna propose? After all, she's the Queen's sister and he's just a commoner still. Queen Victoria, because she was the monarch of Britain, had to propose to Prince Albert when they got married. There's actually a movie scene of them doing it here on KZbin.

[@chelc1886]

The fact that Get This Right and Home are my favourites from the soundtrack yet neither of them made it into the final cut.😔

[@francisfatta]

25:46 excuse me for a moment *screams into pillow and shoots off ear*

[@livmendel]

a cellspex video at 1am? flameo, hotman!!

[@Ai-yahUdingus]

They should have had some teens and young adults at the test screening cuz when I went to see it on opening week with my friend after midterms there were quite a lot of teens in the theatre. It wasn’t just young kids and their parents.

[@justjeike3516]

Guys, I think Spex's actually *alive* this time

[@swolby9230]

They should have combined the songs 'Home' and 'Some Things Never Change', showing her hesitancing while pointing out a need to change. This still allows a call back song at the end.

[@thefanwithoutaface8105]

Personally, I wish they'd just focused on exploring the magic aspect, maybe show darker sides to it. Maybe another magic user who was driven insane by their powers and now seeks to destroy all magic, and Elsa was summoned to help protect it as she is one of the few people who has control of her powers.

[@musicalfan8233]

18:13 you don’t understand how much I love references and how happy I get when I find references in videos 😭

[@spinjitzumasterfalcon]

In the words of Peridot. "It could have been great,"

[@pabloa8102]

Honestly, when viewing the cut scenes, it feels soo much better, Like, Olaf’s story was always more about change from internal stimuli, growth in identity and maturity, etc, with none sense throughout in bursts to keep it fun. Anna and Kristof’s stories could have been about change from stimuli of interpersonal relationships or in response to them, as you said with their relationship suffering strain, K admitting that he isn’t as happy, and the proposal song,etc And Elsa’s story, which I’d change the most, hers would be focused on external stimuli, changes to her exterior that force her to move with them. Her struggle in finding who she is as a leader and confronting the mistakes of leaders past by finding all perspectives to the story. Aka, Elsa asks all involved what happened and what lead to the animosity between their people, and in facing this truth, and history, understanding what the role of a leader is and how she fits into it It would also tie into truth as well Elsa into the truths of the past , to make sense of her role as leader and who she is (past in an actually tangible way, and we could still have a bit of the whole water memory) A&K about the truth of their feelings for each other, fears, etc, again the whole “my love is not fragile” thing would hit hard And Olaf, he’s olaf, he’s been spilling tea all along Also, we did not need Elsa power origin story, and it’s honestly a drag, show yourself was fun, but too much nothing. It also separated the characters (something the idea above fixes as they’d all be required to remain together with the.... forest people who’s name I’m not gonna butcher) which meant the character arcs felt stagnant and disconnected Hi, edited at the end Wth, wow, why is every single cut thing here extremely interesting and feel like, soo much better, just. Someone make a frozen 2 remake with the cut scenes in it, it’s just, damn, I would have loved it. That last cut scene, with the parents deciding to tell Anna, I shed a tear just to the idea

[@alexrexaros9837]

I would suggest watching the documentary on the making of this movie. Its quite a revealing on how Disney operates nowadays.

[@cintronproductions9430]

I saw a little bit of that documentary on Schafrilla's (I probably just wrote his name wrong, sorry) video, and at one point a guy is talking and he sounds like he's crying and being held at gunpoint.

[@KeepCalmContemplateYourChoices]

*sniffle* They didn't get enough time to work on this movie. If they gave it a January or February 2020 opening, hell, even an early March 2020 opening (At least they could still make some money before lockdown), then that would give the team more time to work out story details and character arcs.

[@roiitzkovich4545]

@@KeepCalmContemplateYourChoices The movie would've made barely 20% of it's current profit that way. Wouldn't it be embarrassing to follow up the highest grossing animated movie of all time with a movie that made barely 300M$? Onward only made 141M$.

[@daltoncasey]

I was always under the assumption that Elsa freezing was like a metamorphosis into the Ice "Goddess"

[@nikytamayo]

Better late than never! These deleted scenes do feel like part of a much better movie than what we got. Also, I really felt that they built up Elsa's impending death and transition to spiritual state way too hard without following through.

[@hrpang]

If I had input into Frozen 2's writing, I would have had some of the scenes in 'Home' to be in 'Somethings Never Change'. Imagine Anna posing with her grandfather's statue while singing that song. Then 'Somethings Never Change' would end with Kristoff asking Anna for her hand in marriage, it would be something that changed, after talking about things that never change, but of course she would reject it cause, she doesn't want things to change yet, she doesn't feel ready to push her love life further(especially after Hans). Kristoff's arc would then be him trying to figure out how to improved his proposal with Anna before finally realizing he needed to slow down and think about what Anna wants(and still keep the best song in the movie).

[@thatonepenguinyoumightsee7191]

Something I think about often is why was their no Hans in the second? He was royalty in his kingdom. When Ana punched him in the face, shouldn’t there be a consequence for that? What if in the third movie, the kingdom from where Hans comes from declares a war and the Northaldrens side with Arendel all while Ana struggles due to the fact that she is still learning to be a queen. THATS THE SEQUAL I WANT TO SEE!

[@spritemon98]

my god... THAT SOUNDS AMAZING!!! I WANT THAT TO HAPPEN TOO!!! 😍😍

[@Orynae]

Eh, he was the last of I don't even remember how many brothers. (Which was the reason he "needed" to cheat his way to the throne.) Unless his kingdom was already raring for a fight with Arendelle and deliberately decided to use the punch as an excuse, I don't see it having any significant consequences.

[@thatonepenguinyoumightsee7191]

@@Orynae yeah that does make sense now that you mentioned it

[@COSun25]

I'm disappointed that Disney didn't want to have the ABC Network 'Once Upon a Time' section of 'Frozen' being in continuity w/ the first film. Near the end, we did have mention about the war between Hans' kingdom & Arendale. It could've been what we SHOULD'VE had for the 2nd film. Elsa being the Snow Queen could've been the end of the film trilogy IF Disney wanted the franchise to be just 3 films.

[@rebeccahgraves1133]

Well he broke the law, and I think that they lined up nothing happeneing with him with him complaining about his brothers. He talked about how his brothers are all above him, and that is why Hans has to get Anna, and then get the kingdom