The Fundamental Difference Between Akai Force and Maschine Plus

Force and Maschine Plus are quite similar in many ways, with each being better than the other in some regards. However, there is one huge, fundamental difference between the two devices that anyone interested in performing needs to understand before deciding which one to buy.

[@CodyPMack]

When I was shopping for this device, my original intent and desire was to find a completely standalone piece of hardware that functioned in as near to the same manner as Ableton. I’ve centered my production workflow almost entirely around ableton for years, and have had the pleasure of experimenting with many different styles of workflow, and hardware additions, such as the Launchpad pro and touchable for iPad. I was introduced to the force while looking into various new and vintage MPC devices. Since my productions are a lot more stylistically similar to classical music / arrangement techniques; it became more and more apparent that a ‘beat maker’ might be the wrong direction for me. I experimented with a lot of different apps on the iPad to get more comfortable and familiar with the beat grid style of composing, but was constantly feeling drawn back to a midi arrangement / traditional staff style of composing. When I got the force, they already had released the major update with the SSD / keyboard / 30 channel interface support, so I feel really lucky for missing it’s seemingly immature and rushed release. (Clearly they had the updates in mind the whole time, otherwise it wouldn’t have always had the places to stick such peripherals. All things considered, the force was a perfect fit fro the start. I wanted something that could bridge the composition work I did in ableton with the sound design and processing that are made to such a satisfying level on an iPad Pro. I have the force connected to a focusrite 18i20 3rd gen, one (smaller but newer) iPad Pro with the usb-C connected to a presonus 1824c running into the force via analog and optician - exclusively for sound design in AUM/BM3/Keystage (just to mix it up and challenge me a bit), and an older gen iPad Pro 12.9” running touchable, Xequence, LK, One control pro, touchOSC, Lemur, custom midi/Osc server experiments, you name it! I’ve had it for many years, so it’s packed with a little bit of everything to make things more interesting between the Mac, iPads, midi gear, and the force. All of it is on its own separate subnet, provided by a TP-Link Omada ER605. Honestly, unless you REALLY want to learn advanced network administration, I’d just toss everything on a separate router that isn’t connected to your home network (for stability and security). Then just take the router with to performances. Thanks for sharing the video! Love to see what kind of trouble everyone else is getting into with these things!

[@wilsoncj]

Thanks for your Force videos. I'm learning a lot.

[@MaxipokMusic]

No problem, I’m glad they are helping you! 🙂

[@VoltTone]

Mashine+ and mashine Jam is a. match made in heaven. The issue with "cant do two things' is obliterated. With jam you can do Everything at the same time all the time. Its Magic! Love love love my mashine+ and jam with hardware synths setup. Dawless with ease and more!

[@Rilkir]

Hi there, I had a question. I thought NI dropped support for the Maschine Jam when they discontinued it. But apparently they've released an update for it (or the other units) that allows Maschine+ to work with the Maschine Jam? Is this correct?

[@markvelasco3060]

So glad I watched this video. That little difference you noted is a huge deal breaker for me. I was going to buy this to accompany my Force.

[@MaxipokMusic]

Glad it was helpful! I ended up selling the M+ because I found this issue too limiting. Shame, because it sounds great!

[@falazarte]

Great, great video! Please keep doing more of these. I own both plus the Maschine Jam. I got the Force out of frustration with the M+. I love NI products, but the M+ was sooo buggy, constantly crashing, that I decided to get the force. Soon after we've got an update on the M+ and now is much better, but I really like the Force. As people say here, you get more for what you pay. I have to say that the sounds of the M+ are superior to any AKAI product. But, if you can afford both, I think then you've got the best of both worlds. Keep up the good work.

[@MaxipokMusic]

Thanks Fabian! I was lucky, bought the M+ after the update so I haven’t had any stability issues really. I agree about the way it sounds, until I got this I thought the MC-707 had the best sound engine, but Maschine beats it. Plenty more videos on the way, so watch this space. Cheers! 🙂🙏

[@phoenixloop]

I got a Force after seeing a bunch of vids on the 3.0+ firmwares, and I’ve been so surprised how much I’ve been loving it. There’s a real nice intersection of production and love jamming. It’s replaced the MPC for me.

[@MaxipokMusic]

Yep same here, I never looked back at MPC once I got a Force. Best bit of gear I’ve bought so far!

[@th-wf3sz]

I've had the Force since the end of 2020, and now I barely touch Ableton. I'm seriously considering the new MPC Keys 61 to add.

[@phoenixloop]

@@th-wf3sz - it looks interesting, tho using the MPC firmware for a workstation keyboard seems weird, since it lacks the mixer and arranger views. Akai needs to better harmonize the MPC and Force firmwares. Praying for the cross release of features is annoying af (like, just release the fx updates across all devices at the same time ffs).

[@tricks-and-tips]

This is what I love about the 707. I can do quite a few things at once (if my brain cooperates 😂) and it has dedicated strips so you know where to reach. Nice video btw, really like the channel!

[@MaxipokMusic]

Yeah those dedicated faders are awesome. The 707 sound engine is fantastic too, I really miss it for pads and bass. Will pick one up again when I can afford it!

[@tricks-and-tips]

@@MaxipokMusic Yeah, the Zen engine delivers some nice sounds for sure. Especially with the soundpacks. Im waiting for a good deal on the Force here. 👍🏻 I might trade the 707 for a 101 if the Force fits my brain to have the sounds but not the desk space 😆 But for now I’m having a lot of fun with the 707, so I’m not complaining

[@BubbaSatori]

Thanks for the clear explanation.

[@russellsteel2346]

its pretty obvious from your video, that its a no brainer that, the force is a force to be reckoned with. it can work with ableton link,in sync, and if like me, you have the push 2, the force, and the machine jam all linked, it's an awesome set up, when using ableton, or just using the force stand alone on its own, with external synths keyboards, you can record everything at once, you can't even record a full session on the M+ as far as i know. great video by the way letting people know the differences up front, is appreciated i am sure.

[@RECAPSLABEL]

finally found the answer I've been looking for, thanks man

[@MaxipokMusic]

No problem, glad it was helpful!

[@artemi-music]

thanks a lot for this video, it was fun to listen to!

[@MaxipokMusic]

No problem, I’m glad you enjoyed it!

[@kjwworldwide]

Great video. I want to be able to plug into my 8 channel dj mixer. 4 channels if music , & 4 more for creativity.

[@richarsantana1188]

puedes usar la maschine jam con la maschine mk3 y puedes hacer lo mismo que en la akai e inclusive tienes el modo lock para programar escenas de una manera diferente que no tiene akai

[@hvhvgitaar]

very useful, thanks! I have the maschine MK3 and love the workflow but use it exclusively for songwriting/composition/arrangement. For live sets (one day ....) I will probably use the maschine to run as a "backing track" with live keyboard/guitar/vocals on top. The Force looks a great device though...

[@MaxipokMusic]

Yep absolutely, Maschine is fantastic for composition and arranging. The Maschine plus sounds wonderful too, I wish Force had something like Raum!

[@captainjaneway1111]

Thank you so much. I love the functionality of the force and love the sounds of the maschine. How can I get maschine sounds into the force ?

[@MaxipokMusic]

If you don’t have a Maschine Plus, the easiest way would probably be to sign up to the free trial of Komplete Now and spend a month using the Force’s auto sampler to create keygroups. You could also use the Kitmaker app to convert all the drum kits to Akai drum programs. That would get you a fair way there.

[@thomasmattphoto]

Maschine Jam is an answer for this :) btw-great channel !

[@MaxipokMusic]

Thank you! Yes I must try and pick up a Jam at some point, so weird they discontinued it!

[@DJNinoKorta]

Great ! Thank You :)

[@nicolasrauzy5622]

Hi, do hou try machine jam contrôler ?

[@CodyPMack]

My next less musically focused experiments would be to learn and start programming custom pure data, Apple Watch / wearable / movement driven, and other scripts just for the Force. If I get around to , bet on seeing a KZbin channel I dedicate to it!

[@RobertoFrobs]

Wait, how can you develop software for the force? Is there a SDK?

[@fernandodias112]

Great point of view and tutorial! I have a question so at minute 3:35 when changed scene they waited till the loops get to the end and only after that the 2nd scene started! Does the Machine Plus also do that? Like schedule the next Scene? Hope you can help! Thanks

[@MaxipokMusic]

Thanks! Maschine can do that with scenes but not individual clips, whereas Force can do it with both.

[@davidrupture8892]

Great vid I have one question which one sounds best sonically though ? Thanks

[@MaxipokMusic]

No difference on the sampler side of things to my ear, but the M+ synths do sound better. Although they are quite cpu heavy so you can’t use them as freely as on the Force.

[@ktreier]

Just so much more capability in the Force for live work in my opinion.

[@BishopEddie5443]

WOW! I made the right choice!

[@lrkx_]

Fully agree! You can do a lot with the M+, even perform in a limited capacity, but you need 15 fingers to do it well. You can do a lot with lock modes, macros and automation, but it’s essentially a production-centric Groovebox while the Force is performance-centric. Both good devices if you use them for their strengths. Realistically, price is a factor, and if you could only choose one, personally I feel the Force provides more bang for your buck. To get the performance features on the M+ you need the Komplete Kontrol S49, and that will only get you halfway there…

[@MaxipokMusic]

Yep I definitely agree about the production focus. Even though it’s more limited that Force’s, I actually quite like the M+ way of arranging scenes into a song. Combined with how good the synths sound, I’m starting to really like it for building sections to export and develop in Ableton, or on the Force. Definitely keeping it for now!

[@codename9988]

i think you ought to check out some of Native Instruments videos featuring artists who do live work. May end up change your mind a little.

[@MaxipokMusic]

@@codename9988 There are some people doing amazing finger drumming-style performances for sure (Datsunn etc), but you don’t see a lot of people blending clip and scene launching with performance mixing and live play, that’s why I said ‘a certain type of performance’. Some of my older videos are attempts at doing it on a MK3 and Jam, it’s just not ideal for that sort of thing. Brilliant for finger drumming and building tracks from scratch though, I’m not anti-Maschine at all.

[@MaxipokMusic]

@@codename9988 I’m talking about this sort of thing: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gprTaoaogtGaocU

[@truechristianity74]

Does the jam and Maschine plus work well

[@MaxipokMusic]

I don't have a Jam so can't say from personal experience, but the folks in the Maschine Plus Facebook group say it works great!

[@karend.264]

Hi, I purchased the force in the hope that I could use it to capture incoming audio. But when it was slaved to external clock it wouldn't record. Have you had this issue?

[@MaxipokMusic]

I’ve never used Force receiving clock like that so haven’t encountered the issue. But if you ask the question on the Akai Force Users Facebook group, you will probably get some help as people in there that have similar setups.

[@mrrafsk]

The combo of these devices with an iConnect4 connecting the audio might be cool? The M+ has amazing synths/fx/samplePacks/samplerWith > 4 levels of velocity as default. Combine that with the force sequencer, and it’s mpc chopping might be a lot of fun?

[@MaxipokMusic]

I don’t know the iConnect, but to be honest it’s a lot of fun just plugging the M+ into the Force’s inputs and using them together. The combinations of Akai sampling / sequencing and NI sound design is very powerful!

[@mrrafsk]

@@MaxipokMusic I link audio over mpc live and m+ with the iConnect 4 (both work, with the only wierd caveat/bug that you have to send a clock so the usb interface does not disconnect) I mix down on the mpc with 8 stereo ins from the m+. Next to no latency, and very clean

[@MaxipokMusic]

@@mrrafsk That sounds awesome, thank you! I will definitely look into it. I plugged my Digitone into M+ and got audio over usb working, but for some reason Elektron have made it so you only get a stereo pair out of the Digitone instead of the 4 tracks. Really annoying, that would have been awesome!

[@TheOwlHead]

Force is also 4 levels velocity per pad

[@janeway1111]

Basically I want to perform live - neo soul type music - and I'd like to move between launching clips, scenes of synth bass and guitar bass, electronic drums and acoustic drums, synth pads and leads, and tweaking effects on them etc, and at other times over the top of that music, playing live piano / synth / organ, live guitar, live vocals and maybe even sampling and looping some of those live as well - if possible. Basically I want to be a live one woman band. Is the Force or the Maschine + better for this live workflow or should I have both ? Also - I have to say I do prefer the warmth and fatness of NI sounds vs Akais cool crisp sounds although having both would be awesome. I'm wondering if using auto sample, or software like sample robot and kitmaker, would easily get Native Instrument / Force sounds into either stand alone unit, thus negating the need to have both, or would it be a huge hassle and not worth it ? TIA xo

[@MaxipokMusic]

I would say Force is a better fit for that sort of workflow, performance in general is easier on it, and having proper audio tracks makes interesting ‘real’ instruments easier too. I’ve been using the autosampler a lot recently, with a Microfreak and also some iPad synths, so it is possible to get other sounds into Force quite easily. Hope that helps 🙂

[@janeway1111]

@@MaxipokMusic thank you 🙏 Guess what ? I scored a second hand maschine + yesterday off eBay and I’ve already picked it up and used it. Love the workflow and sounds already. I paid $549 Australian dollars. Bargain ! So for now I’ll have both like you :) I may sell the force but I’d love to learn more about how you use them together.

[@MaxipokMusic]

@@janeway1111 Nice, that was a great result! This video shows how I have them set up - generally do most of the sampling stuff on Force, and use M+ for synths etc, and then have the Force sending scene change messages to the M+ so they play through the arrangement together: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gmSxoGejhLGpoZI

[@ShaighJosephson]

No way in hell would I trust the Maschine+ in live circumstances... It's instability makes it a liability and a piece of junk, IMO...

[@Viibe_4422]

This one comment and ur answer literally summed up my question and answers I had I’m soo happy I’m getting the push I’m trying to make neo soul too !!

[@stringsnare]

im making music with you know...different parts to it? i.e. verse chorus, bridge lol. i need a way to record my demos AWAY from the daw (i work in IT and the screen time is killing my creativity when working in a daw). i also like the idea of jamming out parts of my songs (without recording) before doing a take. i want to use my ears more than my eyes, and i'd be using different instruments. bass, guitar, voice, physical synths + vst synths. is it possible with the akai force to record different parts, or maybe 'loops' and then arrange them? or would the maschine be better for something like that? I have NI komplete i use on my computer which i love, but maschine looks very menu divey.

[@MaxipokMusic]

Both devices are very capable of doing that, however Force benefits from having proper audio tracks that work like DAW tracks (if you want then to) which is great for using with bass / guitar etc. In the situation you describe I think Force would suit quite nicely.

[@stringsnare]

@@MaxipokMusic thank you so much for your advice and prompt reply. ive been reading and i think i am going to pull the trigger on one.

[@mrrafsk]

Can the Maschine Jam can do this when plugged into the M+? What are the pads like on the force? I’m not a huge fan of the mpc pads, but like the Machine ones/launchpad Mk3 ones? The jam ones are not velocity sensitive

[@MaxipokMusic]

Haven’t used the Jam with M+ but with the MK3 it was the same situation. Jam is just an extension of Maschine so it does the same ‘focus’ thing whenever you touched a control on it. Force pads are decent, somewhere in between Maschine and MPC in terms of sensitivity and feel.

[@swz_tor]

as a launchpad mk3 user -> force, the force has pretty good pads. bigger than the launchpad but narrower if that matters. no latency pad jamming is great tho.

[@mrrafsk]

@@swz_tor cool I might swap my mpc for a force.

[@rayderrich]

I acquired a Maschine Mk2 'by accident' (in a deal with a synth I wanted) and was surprised by its build quality and great interaction with the software. I keep wondering why I do not dive deeeper into it. But you make good points towards the Akai Force here. Still not sure whether to buy the Push 2 for my Ableton setup or go more into stand-alone mode with one of these boxes.

[@MaxipokMusic]

I really like Maschine for making music, just not so much for performing it. The MK3 pads are the nicest out there I think, and I love NI’s expansions too. It’s a really nice system to build tracks with…

[@rayderrich]

@@MaxipokMusic There you go, there is no one piece of gear that rules them all, choices remain hard.

[@hjkhhjkh3635]

@@MaxipokMusicif I don’t intend on performing live, but want to make music (edm and trap) what would you recommend for Ableton ? Launchpad pro, maschine mk3, kk 6q, sl mk3, keylab mk2, keystep pro? I have no gear at all…starting from scratch..

[@MaxipokMusic]

@@hjkhhjkh3635 If you are going to work mainly in Ableton, I would suggest the Push 2. The used prices have plummeted since the Push 3 came out, but the 2 is a fantastic instrument and nothing integrates with Ableton quite like it. Ableton have said they will continue to support it for the foreseeable future, so it’s a pretty solid choice. I just bought one and I’m having a ton of fun with it - I just posted a video with it today so you can see it in action 🙂

[@hjkhhjkh3635]

@@MaxipokMusic I can’t find one, it’s out of stock everywhere, shows how good it is. I don’t know if I’m looking in the right direction; I’m a musician (guitar and piano) and singer, and have no digital music production experience. I’m into edm, trap, and classical/film scoring kind of projects. My idea is to get a keyboard (which one? Arturia/Novation/NI) to write melodies with a range of instruments sounds, both natural and industrial, and a pad kind of device which hopefully has a sequencer (maschine, launchpad pro, push, Beatstep etc..?), not only to play edm drums etc…but to assign melodic samples that I’ve created with the keyboard, and trigger them over beat sequences. Does that make any sense? I’m not fussed about the daw, but I was recommended Ableton..

[@magnuseriksson8081]

Hey! Have you looked at Roland MC707?

[@MaxipokMusic]

Hi! Yep, if you look on my channel page I have a playlist of 707 videos 🙂

[@monkihousemusik]

I never tried this out but can this issue not just be mitigated by using the performance fx?

[@MaxipokMusic]

Not really as you still have to change tracks to trigger the perform effect, which means you can’t play pads on one track and trigger an FX on another at the same time on Maschine, but you can on Force.

[@monkihousemusik]

@MaxipokMusic appreciate the clarification. As I said, I never tried it, but I thought I'd leave that one here in case it could be a workaround.

[@auroranamex5886]

Even now when push 3 is out force is still probably the best device (maschine mk3 / push 2 user here)

[@MaxipokMusic]

Totally agree!

[@ShaighJosephson]

The Maschine+ has better sounding instuments and better pads, but that's where it ends... It''s instability and proprietary platform was the deal breaker for me... The Force is packed with so many more useful features...most notably the transition features that the Maschine+ doesn't have... The Force is a no-brainer between the two, IMO...

[@MaxipokMusic]

Yes I agree. Also editing presets on Massive is a massive pain in the backside on M+, that’s what tipped me over the edge into selling it recently. Shame, it was a missed opportunity by NI.

[@BlueHawk80]

Are the insturement really (much) better sounding or does it depend on which one? I heard OPX4 and Fabric are really good quality. Hype and Odyssey also seem to be solid. The rest, I dunno.

[@MaxipokMusic]

@@BlueHawk80 OPX-4 does sound good, I just picked it up in the sale. I think the effects have a lot to do with it - Raum on Maschine is genuinely beautiful, and Force doesn’t have anything like that.

[@BlueHawk80]

@@MaxipokMusic thanks!!

[@Garethduffy707]

I’ve had both and sold the Maschine, Force is more adaptable and capable. Plus it has been vastly and consistently improved through firmware updates and the Maschine hasn’t. The Force evolved to offer an incredibly unique and powerful workflow. Maschine users are all saying the same thing, “where’s the updates?”

[@alanbg2278]

Phew , I made the right choice for once !

[@briansherling5515]

If I told you I own a Moog one and iridium keyboard and force, Would you marry me?

[@MaxipokMusic]

I would certainly congratulate you for having good taste and deep pockets! 😃

[@BuleriaChk]

The biggest difference is that the Farce does not allow time signatures - you're stuck with either 2 or 4 on the floor. IMO this is an inexcusable omission from an otherwise excellent instrument, especially at this price and in this day and age. WTF was Akai thinking? Of dumbing down music in general? As an investment, Maschine+ is much wiser (not to mention that NI stomps all over Akai in terms of content.) If you must go with Akai's ecosystem, the Live 2 is a MUCH better investment.

[@MaxipokMusic]

‘Two folders deep user sample browsing’ would beg to differ.

[@lvzakal]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/moPYd5ajfZujkNEsi=cfm38zsp_nW_rol8

[@leftovernoise]

Why not just change clip length? If you make a clip 3 beats long instead of 4, you have 3/4, or 5 beats for 5/4.

[@BuleriaChk]

@@leftovernoise Have you actually tried this and compared it with a 6/8 measure? And then a metronome for the correct BPM? t

[@leftovernoise]

@@BuleriaChk don't get me wrong, it would be great if they added native support for different time signatures, but there are many workarounds to get the same results if you need it. How often are you using all these time signatures? Can you send me some links to your catalog of nonstandard time signature music you've recorded? It's just I see so many people complain about this when like 98% of the music people make with gear like this is in 4/4. If you want something that can do literally everything, use a daw.