The Future is MoP but should Blizzard even bother? | WoW Classic

[@Scottejaye]

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[@Lotuswalker]

I read, that Activision Blizzard just got rid of 400 employees. That means there are approximately -399 people working on Cata right now.

[@Shlnigamii]

thou we had just 1

[@LeprosuGnome]

People who got fired were mostly mobile apps devs, I believe we're still safe with 1 developer for classic.

[@cosmicwinters]

That didn't just happen, and it was the rumble team that got the boot.

[@dhampir216]

That was for mobile .. no ties to eachother

[@Ecliptor.]

@@LeprosuGnome Mostly, yeah. They did axe some wow people tho.

[@cococock2418]

I was all for it during TBC and Wrath but after seeing how cata rolled out, it's not even worth it. They put zero effort into cata whatsoever and the demand for classic plus and rotating vanilla/tbc/wrath realms is just so much higher.

[@EB-bl6cc]

and tbh the other problem is no one is playing cata compared to the numbers they had in the first 3

[@Kensber85]

@@EB-bl6cci think up until recently like maybe past 2 weeks cata was pulling more numbers than SOD.

[@Markus-pd4op]

@@EB-bl6cc cata P1 and P3 were so terrible back in the old days. Everyone who played there knew it and stopped playing classic with end of WotLK/ICC.

[@walzdaudi946]

mop is alot cooler than cata tho

[@poddcasetv]

exact same situation in wotlk tho?

[@johndoe-qo8cy]

Cataclysm is a little bit neglected? Seriously? Its so fkn neglected that child services has been called.

[@alihorda]

Well everybody saw it coming. Only a very small portion cares about cataclysm

[@CatDad312]

What did you expect? Cataclysm doesn’t really have any content besides raid tiers. They’d have to make new stuff for there to be anything to talk about.

[@fenicksdoun7356]

He addressed this, there was so little content due to having to actually redo all zones and quests for the world changes. Since this actually didn't have to be done this time around the devs took a lazy approach. They did nothing to add content for cata, and fixed majors issues after launch. They also neglected and killed off SoD in that time frame. Devs just took time off and figured the games would handle themselves. This killed SoD and Cata... Maybe this was the plan all along to get everyone to play TWW?

[@Orly90]

@@CatDad312 I mean wrath was the same lmao

[@N_Tys]

😂😂😂

[@dflowers6771]

No blizz needs to put a stop to that and just make a legit classic + and have vanilla, tbc and wrath available for everyone

[@Keygo]

I'll be honest, if they're going to send MoP and leave us in phase 1 for like 4 months I might end up passing. Each phase 1 of classic has been brutal.. This one in Cata has really killed my drive to continue playing classic content.

[@CatDad312]

I would recommend trying out retail personally. Gives you more to do in the down time.

[@XxKinGzxX100]

They just need to increase the amount of loot dropped for this content and release it faster

[@MuracosaSven]

@@XxKinGzxX100 Increase the loot? - Maybe in 10man. In 25 we are having like 2 needed BiS items in the last raids and had good loot. They just need ro release it faster

[@Keygo]

@@CatDad312 I'm playing retail, but that is most of my problem. Trying to keep a classic guild alive when there's no content and a bunch would rather be on retail... Makes it tough

[@Shiirow]

I sort of gave up in the first tier on my resto shaman and just went back to retail.

[@Greynth]

TBC era with quality of life changes would be so prime. For starters: -Dual spec -Respec cost cap -Raid-wide lust to remove the need for a shaman in each group -Raid CDs reset on boss kills and/or wipes -Raid-wide Drums with tinnitus debuff to remove need for leather working on half the raid

[@AkiRa22084]

Only AoE loot matters to me.

[@Greynth]

@@AkiRa22084 AoE loot is a good call for sure.

[@Blendercage]

The best thing I remember about MOP, was that as a DPS I could queue for a scenario and a dungeon at the same time, the scenario would pop first, and I never understood exactly how the following worked, but as soon as the scenario ended, the dungeon would always pop. Always.

[@thaybae]

you can do this with bgs and dungeons XD not super fast but if youre solo queueing as dps its kinda cool

[@Ecliptor.]

Because queues enter "pause" mode when you join one of the things you queued up for, but your position is still taken into consideration. Same thing happens when you relog, except you do lose the position if it would pop while you're offline, or after enough time has passed. I don't know what does this have to do with mop, but the game worked like that since forever. You can see this very easily while queueing for multiple LFR wings at the same time.

[@zelden666]

Blizzard have forgotten they're even doing Cataclysm. It's very much "doing homework on the bus to school" sort of approach.

[@OGNord]

I literally haven’t touched the molten front dailies, they waited too long and it’s just dead. My guild is dying slowly, won’t even make it to MoP if this continues.

[@harmy-y3q]

Just give me TBC ERA!

[@Shiirow]

that should have been the way from the very beginning, cut the available servers in half, keep half in era, move the rest to the next expansion and maybe have some fresh servers for the new expac. wash rinse repeat.

[@MethSloth]

They should just give us servers for Vanilla, TBC, and WOTLK. Those are the classic versions of the game.

[@LeprosuGnome]

😴

[@XxKinGzxX100]

There would be like 1 realm for each of those in each region

[@kevinneparidze3973]

@@LeprosuGnomeyou can sleep as much as you want but numbers don’t lie

[@Ecliptor.]

@@kevinneparidze3973 what numbers?

[@AkiRa22084]

@@XxKinGzxX100 With 1 player on each.

[@saschaaah]

I want you to be harsh with the devs once you get a dev interview for mop classic. I want you to tell them that cata was way to neglected and that they can fuck right off if thats their plan for mop

[@ukdoomer2082]

i just want a classic 2019 that progresses into tbc and wrath. Cataclysm and season of discovery have shown that the classic devs dont know wtf they are doing.

[@Holylightt99]

Classic era is dog shit until your 60

[@AkiRa22084]

SoD is way better and more alive than Era.

[@Holylightt99]

@@AkiRa22084 their both crap

[@Shiirow]

@@Holylightt99 you cant convince them of this, theyve been preaching this up and down while the numbers slowly dwindle. vanilla is by far one of the worst eras of wow, and SaD is just a shallow gimmick that wore out its welcome.

[@Thunderwolf196]

I agree with you that if they don’t make changes and neglect MoP like they have so far with Cata it’s not even worth doing. Hell, I’m not sure how many people would even come back to the game after this long in T11, not to mention the lack of bug fixes. It truly feels like they’ve given up on this route of classic, SoD had 2 raid tiers while T11 was out and the best thing we got was ZG and ZA? Molten front dailies were released too late imo (should have been with troll dungeons), and still no actual release date or PTR raid date for the second batch of testing. Truthfully, it’s kind of laughable.

[@ryananderson586]

Its insane to me looking at all the content being hammered into SoD with 1/4 the player base of cata, at least in regards to logs. So much easy shit they could do to bloster cata. Firelands account wide/new transmogs, more loot. Just anything lol. Its kinda sad. Im killing that big dragon and im done with wow for the foreseeable future I think.

[@Ecliptor.]

lmao did sod actually have 1/4 of the logs? No surprise I guess, who the fuck enjoys raiding in vanilla lol

[@ryananderson586]

@@Ecliptor. hey with blackwing lair they managed to log 70k this week. Meanwhile cata had 120k even though were 4 months deep into the tier. In a couple weeks SoD will be back to 30-40k. Not that I want sod to fail, its just telling of the direction classic is going.

[@dfcd1432]

@@ryananderson586Warcraft logs is not a good indicator between versions. I raid on 3 characters every week in Cata with less effort than it takes to raid on even 1 character in SoD.

[@FabioRTA]

I have to disagree with you about the cloak questline. We're talking about a "legendary " item after all. Since legion went out it felt like getting legendary items was equal to looting rare gear from dungeons and just sell to the trader. If you had to rerol spec/ class , oh well, it's a RPG game after all, decision making is on the table to play these kind of games.

[@Temkras]

Cata feel so dead atm. After Firelands I wonder how many will stick around. Maybe it's time for a fresh experience in vanilla, or TBC.

[@SoulHero777]

It's very sad since I love cata alot just feels like they could have made cata classic so much better

[@Kensber85]

I think you guys grossly over estimate how many casuals(the majority of the population) actually like vanilla.

[@AkiRa22084]

@@SoulHero777 How? They are not allowed to change anything.

[@agulot1]

You can dress it up but I left wow during MoP due to the massive influx of dailies. It became a second job just to keep up so I could raid. WoD was worse sure but I just didn't have time. I'll not be going to MoP. Just can't do it.

[@Blubking1]

Don’t have to do it. Just do raids lol

[@Die10003]

Once SoD came out Blizzard put Classic into "maintenance mode" just like they did with HOTS the shit is dead now in terms of support, all the staff is on season of discovery now. Like Blizzard really has been trying to cuck classic this whole time. Look at Wrath they released hardcore about a month after TOGC release date, then RIGHT into ICC they released SoD. Then Cata came out guess what here comes MoP remix. They literally can't kill classic fast enough lol

[@AkiRa22084]

What support can there be for a museum game? What do you people want?

[@NerveEarthfury]

Flex raiding was a WoD prepatch thing, not a MoP thing. Flexible SoO was less than normal and only better than LFR.

[@kokuo357]

I don't trust Blizzard anymore on "classic" content. They had a chance to do better, especially with cata (wotlk was good enough with the hm+), they just did nothing. They dropped the game, didn't implement anything new and let it to die. What about the lfr ? why is it so long before getting hm+ ? why did they not implement the features that easier the old raids soloing (razorgore cd, mc runes, viscidius hits, ...). And I don't even argue on the bugs that people had to correct with add-ons because Blizzard was too busy checking the cost benefit balance (with almost nothing invested this one must be way unballanced)

[@richjones8696]

They should have kept TBC and Wrath realms. Cata has been a tremendous let down.

[@PortalThoughts-d9c]

People want Classic and not Shaddowlands. You can see in Cata that it no longer makes sense to go from expansion to expansion. They should just stop after Cata and concentrate on the 3 real Classic expansions.

[@vad1nho]

castle of natria is 2good2 not be a classic)

[@adamzandarski8933]

The only way to make mop work is if you put the timeless Ile up at the very start of the expansion it was the only thing worth saving, and yes, that includes the story

[@CanielDonrad]

I feel like if mop releases it's going to suck a good 50% of retail players out of retail. I hear CONSTANTLY from people that they prefer the feel of the game from mop both pve and pvp

[@Ausbia]

tanks were the most crazy in mop, I don't remember locks being that broken, but tank dps was insane.

[@CatDad312]

Open up Timeless Isle after the first raid and scale the gear up in each patch. Timeless Isle is the single best content update up the that point and it would significantly increase player participation.

[@mattsdehertogh6524]

Cata was done once I saw the dev interview a few months back. They thought the game was doing really well because everyone was doing archaeology for gear. Nothing has been done with cata since. No gamma dungeons etc. Can't trust the classic devs

[@s0515033]

So classic was classic and not different? 😂😂😂

[@Racerguardguy]

I disagree. I hate feeling rushed through these expansions. We have so many different versions of wow...I don't understand why we are rushing when they have multiple versions people play. Good luck making an alt on any other version because the next newest thing is coming out in Season of Whatever.

[@jackiekline1710]

Agree, and this is exactly the player (Scottejaye) Blizz *shouldn't* be listening to, but they do.

[@jordon_9333]

When they released the Cata schedule I thought it was way too fast, but it really has felt like a drag, we've stopped farming the raids, there's no point at this stage

[@kpax7897]

I have said this before so I will say it here : TBC is the best expansion they have ever done - I didn't play back in the day so I don't have those, nostalgic love puppies eyes for a certain type of expansion or version of wow. I played classic 2019 through to Cata - so far Cata is the worst and I don't see the point in alts for it, just doing the quests once was enough for the story. In fact, this made me try remix Pandaria, well the last 2 weeks on retail. This was so much fun and I hope Blizzard remix versions of other expansions in retail. A way to get cosmetics, mounts, weapons, and a way of playing through the game that benefits your alts, they could do vanilla with the original mounts that got taken out of the game early on. But to keep doing classic versions now, just made me want to play TWW, which is fantastic. The cost to run servers and rebuild worlds in a classic mode for basically retail is pointless. Just do remix versions for each exp - leveling alts super easy which helps the retail game and use it between gaps in the main story in retail for the next expansion. Cata and anything afterward is just retail ... that's it - they should have classic servers - a TBC server and wrath, and the rest make it into remix versions that are playable in a seasonal period over the years for downtime in the retail game to keep maximum customer sign-ups or attract customers back to catch up. Are you bored of classic? let's play TBC? oh wait we've cleared the raid and raid logging lets just do wrath instead, well that's done but the new retail isn't out until the fall we have 3 months yet - oh look let's do a remix version for retail to get alts geared and catch up on achievements and mounts/cosmetics. Pandria is a good game but won't last if no investment of time and effort goes in. Give the people what they want, TBC and a wrath server :)

[@normalman6940]

TBC was one of the worst expansions they ever made. Had a single alt? Have fun redoing the entire attunement chain again. Classes feel clunky and unballansed as fuck. Hope you have 5 shamans you can rotate in raids to padd the parse meters cuz that will be mandatory by most guilds. World content i dont even want to see again, i do not miss orgilla dalies, sky guard dailies or god forbid fucking fire elemental farming. There is no content until sunwell and even quel'thalas was like warm at best. Karazhan was cool the first time around, not the 50th. And going back to farm T4 because of DST DURING SW progress was dog shit. Oh and dont forget to reclear THE ENTIRE BLACK TEMPEL just to not see any glavie drop after 35 runs. Oh and Heroics sucked so hard. Remeber how NO ONE did em after week 1? Because i sure do and getting a group for it was impossible because of BS difficulty built around a mega clunky combat expansion. And since the rewards was worse then what you got in raids, and raids being way more enjoyable, you can see why HCs died in phase 1. Do i need to spell it out more oh shit that expansion was or did you just play phase 1 and called it a massive success? Because i played the entire shitty thing and cleared all the content and had to push the the bullshit that expansion called content so fucking much. If they do era it will be dead on arrival.

[@galeitiaa]

​@normalman6940 wow you sure put a lot of thought into hating a great expansion. Tbc hype

[@Blubking1]

Cata and beyond is retail. Nice meme bro. Game hasnt changed for 14 years

[@kpax7897]

@@normalman6940 you are in a minority my friend- TBC was the best imo from these classic releases. We all have different motivations on why we play - a handful of people for cata only it seems. TBC isn’t perfect, but for me and the people I play with it has been the best experience. 5 alts in fact all attuned upto sunwell - that’s how much fun I had. But each to their own on how you want to play though😉.

[@Quadromil4]

@@kpax7897 It doesn’t matter that he is in the minority (and your guesses about the need for tbc are just a few opinions on KZbin). It is important that Blizzard heard and understood players like him, like me and many others who share our views and now fill progressive classic servers.

[@liricopetanco6257]

I CAN'T WAIT FOR WOD CLASSIC! TO STAY IN MY GARRISON ALL DAY! THE REAL WoW FANTASY!

[@coolshark6816]

We're gonna get the laziest implementation of MOP ever boys

[@Lorn058]

So my experience in cataclysm in the past was absolutely abysmal. So like most people I thought it was terrible. Having replayed it it was actually a really fantastic system. The gameplay class changes profession changes and reforging we're all pretty fantastic. I was actually astounded that I remembered it so badly. The issue is there's no content. I came late gave it a shot and did everything there was to do in 5 days. Hit max level all the dungeons all the heroics every raid at least once and a couple exalted reputations. At that point it was evident to me why people are upset and why there was no one playing. Firelands seems so fantastic and I want to participate but they're just isn't enough player base left and that's sad because this will probably be the last time we get a chance. A lot of people are soured by this. If they have to go into mists knowing that they're going to get screwed all over again and lied to all over again You're going to have even less player base.

[@gl22222]

Classic+ hype. 1-60 at launch, using what did and didn’t work in SoD, keep stuff on Azeroth but add in Sunwell, Zul Aman, Kara. Revamp and add a new few areas like Grim Batol, Hyjal. I think SoD has been enough of a success where people would be stoked to go through the 25, 40, 50 brackets, sped up and back into endgame 60 with some new content.

[@giorgosX38]

I only agree that they have to change the legendary quest line and daily quests, so it can be alt friendly.

[@AaronLassen]

I've actually REALLY enjoyed questing in Cata, definitely more than I remembered.

[@RmunozJay]

I would absolutely come back for mop loved every part pvp and raids were so much fun

[@LuKaSSthEBosS]

10:12 No one is gonna be starting new characters in the last phase and actually last phase is the best time to start a new character? I'm confused

[@ericsilva7430]

i play vanilla up to mop and quit and come back on dragonflight, really wana try the stuff i din't play, hope bliz don't skip any expansion.

[@xendermaco9055]

the solution to mop alt problem is very simple. Add warband feature to classic. The best addition ever made to the game

[@RichardJanvrinYT]

I feel like they’ll continue down this path but I think the player base will get significantly smaller.

[@bens5186]

I stopped playing wrath when they announced cata was coming.

[@FryGuy1013]

It's really disappointing that they've treated phase 2 of cataclysm with the same level of respect that phase 1 had when it's just ZA/ZG and some catchup gear. We didn't need to be in this tier of raiding for 20 weeks. I mean I guess at least it's not the 33 weeks of ICC. This level of neglect with cata is really disappointing. If we look back on cata classic as a failure, it's going to be the classic team's fault due to how little effort they've put in.

[@Crossfade1625]

Scott: They need to work on the game. Is right, won't happen.

[@adzadzy]

Do you think raid finder will be in MOP?

[@myklbraun2201]

Raid finder isn’t needed.

[@adzadzy]

@@myklbraun2201 it is for some people

[@baldyshere]

​@@myklbraun2201yes it is

[@CatDad312]

@@myklbraun2201Raid finder is 100% required in MoP if you want to progress your legendary cloak on alts, or those that don’t want to raid.

[@myklbraun2201]

@@CatDad312 I agree with scotty about making cloak account bound like warbands. Raid finder is a cancer to MMOs. It is wipe a lot to get stacks to kill a boss as many are AFK. There are no point that people cant fine a couple hours with some friends to do some raids. Raid finder makes it so people dont join guilds or communities and the start of making wow not an MMO

[@BeNice108]

Retail is ridiculously fast-paced. Taking four weeks to clear the raid on heroic vs four months on Cata Classic. You don't just have a variety of content on retail to gear up and play, but you can easily out gear these fights. I don't mind the increased release schedule for classic content so far, but they should refrain a lot from picking up any pace.

[@baldyshere]

Glad for mop to come out I loved the class works and talents and combat but doing the raids n such in remix makes the pve part boring but I guess the PvP was great

[@N_Tys]

Unfortunately my journey with Cata ended with the implosion of my guild. Lack of support, proved to be the main culprit. With that, I don’t have the desire to find an another guild so my classic journey has come to an end. MoP is exciting but I can’t bring myself to come back. The lack of long term vision for the classic timeline from blizzard has been extremely disappointing.

[@nottjohn3514]

Getting more back shots while watching this, but really love being an affliction warlock loving this video (and back shots!)

[@goldeneye9859]

I used to watch your videos a lot years ago and then they stopped showing up in my feed. Fast forward to now I found this video and it seems I got unsubscribed some time in the distant past and I didn’t realize. I resubbed and hopefully your videos will start showing up for me again when I get the occasional wow classic video itch.

[@drizzl8899]

I'm feeling the same about mop. It's one of my fav expansions but for me it all depends how retail is by the time mop classic releases. If I still have fun in the war within which I currently have then I'll probably skip the recycled content

[@MrDARKJAK]

Oh, i HAVE to do dailies for rep? Already wasnt planning on playing MOP cause of talent tree change, that fact just sealed it

[@josedavidmunozmartinez4722]

So... Am I really the only one that was in a guild where our Enhancement Shaman and our Arcane Mage were doing just about the same dps than our Warlock, even though our Warlock was in the top 50 worldwide...? Or is it just that most people didn't know how to properly play Enh Shaman or Arcane Mages... In fact, I even remember our Balance druid doing almost as good as the other 3 as well... The only 2 speccs that I remember being bad in MoP were Shadow and Retribution. On the healing side, my Hpaladin was as annoying as any Disc Priests in the form of me abusing my mastery to the point where I was a Disc Priest on steroids... Also my MW Monk was a beast in both HPS and mana management. I guess my point is that MoP had a clear skill gap for all classes and the only 2 speccs across all roles that were falling a bit behind were Shadow and Ret.

[@dremora2232]

I think CCs forget about this in MoP and WoD. They had humungous content droughts. Considering the SoO patch was one year two months, I doubt they will do that this time round. The life of each classic expansion so far is two years or less. WoD is the same, they’re not gonna sit there through HFC for an extended amount of time, they’re just going to release Legion.

[@norricommander]

Classic expansions get classic, modern expansions get remix

[@Shiirow]

if you are trying insinuate that MoP is a "modern expansion", you are 2 expansions too early. Legion was the first of the modern expansions. MoP still had that classic flavor to it before they abandoned the classic flavor in WoD in favor of scaling world mobs and world quests.

[@norricommander]

@@Shiirow oh okay my mistake

[@Dalex19]

This is a summation of how I answered the survey when I go the MoP question. Cata has potential to be quite fun, but the way they have treated it is beyond despicable. Shouldn't bother with MoP if they put no effort. It's an insult to the expansion and a disrespect to the dev team that made it back in the day. They put all the resources into SoD and that game has less players than the completely abandoned Cata. They make bonkers decisions.

[@Blubking1]

Honestly the best answer for the survey

[@BeregronDownUnder]

The only thing Cata needs is 1 more item to drop off each boss on 10m so gearing keeps up with the release cadence or helps to removes terrible rng every week. There is no way Blizz can keep everyone happy with classic... people want changes, balancing, Alpha/Beta 5 mans and the list goes on. No matter what changes they put in people will consume it fast and then move onto retail, Sod, HC or whatever else has newer content (which is fine). For what it's worth i only play 1 version of Wow being Cata Classic, as that's my preference, but i do raid most nights of the week. Just release it as is and fix anything broken... if you want more changes than that then you aren't asking for classic, you are asking for something else. (which is also fine...) If you are bored with the current patch then just go play something else... like 75% of the player base has. Cata will still be here when Firelands comes out and you can come back, consume it and be bored again.

[@techytech3487]

Mist of Pandaria was amazing for PvP and good PvE. Can't wait for mop classic.

[@mmuslovski]

So...level my Warlock? Cool. :) thanks

[@SomeGuyFromUtah]

Imo they need to commit to every single expansion up to current and increase the pace of the releases to like every year or maybe even less. I wouldn't mind going through the whole story of the game and ending up all caught up in a few years, but i don't want to invest tons of time into a version of the game that might just die once it hits an unpopular expansion and all that time results in nothing.

[@SalimKhan-uc7xn]

The expansion where talent points and class experimentation/dual talents removed/terminated

[@D2ezbmu]

The fact that mounts/pets/etc aren’t account wide to retail is the reason I stopped playing classic and just went to retail full on. MoP remix was amazing. I really don’t see too much of a reason to devote time to to classic at all.

[@Thrasherbear]

the only way i would play classic is if they added unreleased content that wasn't there from the original launch. Cata was my starting expac, MoP is probably my favorite, tied with with Legion, and TWW (so far).

[@Racerguardguy]

Yes, we hated the dailies but that is how it was. It is solo content for people to do. Or not do.

[@Matt-np3wk]

Ive got my monk name saved already. But I am still enjoying cata so much

[@Ausbia]

Firelands is the best raid in cata but is going to be the shortest raid tier. Blizzard gave up on cata it feels like they only want SoD in the classic space.

[@jamminkeys]

the biggest thing that would bring my guild back to Classic MoP is if they put in flex raiding from the start. being restricted to exactly 10 people just does not work for us anymore. we played all of Classic Wrath, and then Cata for a couple months, but we're in retail now so everyone can actually play together

[@Blubking1]

Flex raiding is wod, wrong expansion

[@jamminkeys]

@@Blubking1 14:12

[@Blubking1]

@@jamminkeys Scotte saying it doesnt make it more true. Its still the wrong expansion.

[@jesperfrejknudsen7285]

I love MoP and will always do based on class design and balance specifically for PvP, however there were also loads of good raids and good class design for PvE. I don't agree that MoP should be accelerated, as there is actually something to do outside raiding and capping conquest poinys, which is NOT the case in Cata, which i think is why cata is failing right now. Even if they launched MoP with no changes it would be way better than Cata in terms of keeping players, so if blizz DO implement positive changes (like accountwide daily rewards/legen questline), i think MoP classic will be excellent

[@alexrompen805]

Warlocks were INSANE.... they could 1 shot a fully BiS geared main tank

[@ericlol99]

I think it's an over correction. With the changes they did to WOLK. Either they realize it wasn't worth the effort to make changes, or it wasn't well liked.

[@msscott22]

Also we just had MOP Remix. Seems like poor planning to be that close to MOP classic.

[@BillSawyerPlus]

As long as they don't nerf the Darkmoon Rabbit!

[@Sodo44]

I was hardcore classic only and fuck retail but with TWW and it taking so long for fire lands to come out I am not even looking forward to it anymore. I know i cant be the only one in that boat.

[@Muffnman007]

if we're getting normal, heroic and mythic for mop, they should make normal and heroic flex size, that would have more ppl playing

[@Blubking1]

Neither of both will work. The classic devs will never put any effort to balance flex raiding, let alone introduce an new difficulty to t14 and t15

[@Muffnman007]

@@Blubking1 they will absolutely work, but you're right blizz won't do it.

[@killionayr2077]

I mean xpac still has 130k players, not very big but still sizeable for sure. Firelands will bring a chunk back for a couple months

[@MoonJung82]

WoW originally put you in another world, where a level 23 priest wand-ing a mob to death felt meaningful. That requires zero skill by any semi-modern standard, but it was satisfying in a way that retail WoW critically lacks. I could try and pinpoint a precise moment in time when the slide from a world to an arcade happened, so I look at Cataclysm for starters. Obvious point of fracture, right? Talent points got whittled down. The world changed and felt weird for many people. Tanks now do absurdly high damage and have virtually no issues holding threat. But what about WotLK, my favorite time in WoW (in 2008)? It had a button where you could switch a raid from normal to heroic. Goodbye Ulduar's way better way of doing it :( Wait, TBC had that button for 5 mans...Sure, there was a key to grind out, locked behind reputation, but that too part part of a game-system. If even TBC game-ified the world, what did Vanilla have? Well it had things like pvp objectives in Silithus, and if I'm not mistaken, either AQ or Naxx was when daily quests began. And were summoning stones implemented late in Vanilla? Can't remember... That doesn't mean any of those changes were necessarily bad--they certainly weren't bad for everyone--but it does mean that when something was gained, something was lost. Warlocks summoning to Maraudon will simply never happen again, outside of Vanilla refreshes. Blizzard maybe ought to ask why a level 23 priest barely taking down a level 24 furbolg is more fun for a lot of people, than a DH jumping into 15 mobs and eye-beaming them to death. For one thing, that furbolg looked more like part of a world than the 15 blobs of instantly destroyed health bars.

[@gracer619]

Wasn't classic done with Wrath? This would be retail rebooted.

[@fersan92]

Either do classic+ with less crazy things than SoD or release vanilla fresh. As much as I like MoP, it's DOA with Blizzard's current effort past Wrath. They knew people wouldn't care after the reaction they got to Cataclysm at Blizzcon.

[@lazer9870]

we need bug fixes ffs, raid tiers max of 4months, pre nerf raids and perhaps some communication on what when and why.

[@meta1152]

This would require that they scrap their baby: SoD.

[@jacque3427]

SoD is a neglected child and needs to be adopted by better parents

[@Kensber85]

@@jacque3427sod is not neglected lol Sod is constantly having bug fixes and class tuning and more content added and even Dev feedback. Is anything SOD is the underachieving golden child who gets everything spoon fed to them while bringing home C’s and D’s

[@Shiirow]

SoD, more like SaD.

[@jacque3427]

@@Kensber85 class tuning? It's been an unbalanced mess for 3 phases. The devs also gave horde weapon skill, kings, salvation, freedom, and fear ward, while alliance got nothing except windfury. It's completely unbalanced. And instead of tuning and fixing class gameplay to be balanced, they just put a flat 40% damage reduction buff as an easy band-aid fix. All this has done is made any hybrid class (pally, shaman, druid) leagues better than everyone else and they are practically unkillable if they play correctly. More content? We got: 3 level up raids (just old dungeons with update bosses, barely new), ashenvale event (cool, but dead now), stv event (cool, but dead now), incursions (absolutely ruined the economy and leveling experience), and som mechanics MC and BWL. The crummy turtle wow private server has made triple the amount of new content and they dont have the resources that blizzard has.

[@Kensber85]

@@jacque3427 now compare all that to what cata has gotten. You may not like the changes or the tuning or the new raids and thats all cool but you still actually got them. Cata has gotten nothing literally nothing

[@bidu2331324]

I love healing in cata more than any other expansion and I have five alts and I have been hard raid logging for weeks just because the tier has been out two months too long. The cata neglect is disgusting.

[@The4Dev]

Honestly after MoP Remix I have close to no desire for mop classic. I know I know, it's not the same at all, but it's the same zones/raids and environments, NPC's, not to mention after MoP Remix it's going to feel a lot slower. I just wish they press the big reset button so I can go back into TBC.

[@vh9129]

disagree with them skippin heroic+ dungeons , they will still be great for alts and people not doing hc raids

[@TreeHugg]

If they burn through mist as fast at cata kiss classic goodbye with WoD.

[@tamasnagy9235]

Warlocks might seem strong but you have to take into account that a good amount of that damage is useless padding and warlocks in mop are especially great at padding. You showed some screenshots from the private server Stormforge. That should not be a standard because they dont filter damage. Imagine if add damage on Nefarian counted towards logs, would make some classes absolutely skyrocket and this is the case on private servers. While warlocks will remain strong the whole expansion, I seriously doubt that they will top the meters when it comes to filtered damage because they are not even top 5 when it comes to single-target

[@CatDad312]

Ok but MoP doesn’t have many pure single-target bosses. Most tiers have a lot of cleave, especially in Seige of Orgrimmar.

[@tamasnagy9235]

@@CatDad312 There a few multi target boss fights yes, but every tier the most important fights are about single target damage: Empress,Sha of fear, Leishen,Raden,Garrosh There are adds on these fights but they are usually just passive cleaved or not that significant to begin with and I bet my ass they will be ignored on the logs to avoid encouraging padding

[@Everken-i3q]

Actually, warlock affliction is pretty much unplayable until legendary meta gem and wusholay, destruction is around middle of the pack. On top of what as tamasnagy said, stormforge logs doesn't even filter trash before the boss and most of the ranking strats on the boss that allows it is to bring as much extra adds on top of the boss to pad, the worst offender of that is the adds before tortos, if you kill the 2 bigs bats and then wype you are only left with little bats that regen their life when they hit a target with less than 80% of their life, the tank just had to take the permanent shield as soon as it happen and you have an entire pull with 20 adds that never die to cleave on top. In fact the real OP thing in MoP are tank, mostly starting from ToT since there are not that many 1 tank boss in T14, but their damage and healing is completely broken on a great number of fight to the point that fight are actually often WAY easyer with only 1 tank than 2.

[@remindkim5402]

Hi just a quick question what dps specs are actually good in mop? I’ve searched through stormforges discord but can’t get a lot of info, I know unholy is super strong early on and locks are decent, how about other classes? Want to try out WW but unsure if its good

[@tamasnagy9235]

@@remindkim5402 I always thought WW monks are a meme, they bring 0 utility other than the small aoe stun and their damage is mid. But they are super annoying in pvp and they are supposedly fun to play. Early on frost mages, uhdk, destro warlock, rogues, warriors and elem shamans are super good progression wise and they will remain solid throughout the expansion. Spriests,druids,ret paladins though they are kinda behind when it comes to sustained dps but they have good utility at least

[@didounledodo]

My 2 cents on the matter: - Cata is abandonned and I don't feel like playing right now because it feels boring - I stopped Wow at MOP so I really don't care about MOP - I'd rather have a real Classic + with new content based on what was put away at the time because of a lack of ressources and / or a rolling fresh server Classic / TBC / Woltk

[@AkiRa22084]

How can a rereleased game be abandoned? What are you talking about? MoP was the best, it's a you problem.

[@Shiirow]

@@AkiRa22084 they are probably on the "Pandas, ewwwww" bus who never really gave it a chance.

[@WakeNShake-h7c]

ive only played vanilla classic and some hardcore classic so far but id definately play mop classic

[@bigbigu8671]

Classic will never be the main effort of Blizz.

[@belavet]

I guess this begs the question of when classic stops becoming classic. I already bailed on cata. In my eyes, WOTLK was the end of classic. Totally fine for people to disagree, but I feel like there's gotta be a line somewhere. I have a buddy who loves MOP and said he'd like to come back to that. If he does, I might play with him. But I don't have any strong emotional ties to the expansion, so it will be an otherwise easy pass. I've heard good things about legion, which I never played, so I may check that out?

[@Blubking1]

Legion is a grindfest

[@duberdurm]

No way Blizz is going to get it right. They couldn't even balance remix.

[@seifyk]

If mop launches with the reroll token system like it was on OG mop launch it will die fast. The amount of dailies was absurd.

[@Blubking1]

Probably the 5.4.8 version meaning you can get everything just from dungeons and scenarios

[@ChrisHall-q5d]

glad to hear warlocks come back in MOP. With how sweaty and not fun locks are to play in cata classic, I feel like blizzards owes the locks abit of a sorry :)

[@sourceavenger]

Honestly if i was blizzard i would work on dropping MoP and have retail WoW be able to "import" player data. Then either promise players theyll be adding remixed content for each classic expansion in rotations or Putting up classic servere that cycle from vanilla -> WoTLk and then wipe.

[@Quadromil4]

Fortunately, you are unable to change anything.

[@sourceavenger]

@@Quadromil4 So youd prefer players who are on classic lose 5 years of collection of achievements, mounts, doing raids, etc because the likely alternative is to kill classic once we get through MoP?

[@mimedogg]

They could put a bunch of time in development and charge $15 or they could do nothing and still charge $15 a month. I think we all know what Blizz will do...

[@Mindthetank]

Only the original trilogy can be considered classic.

[@Envy188]

i would love to play season of discovery but it's impossible as its ridden with bots, there are actually more bots online then players. there is no chance to sell something or buy on AH and it just feel like crap when you see 50players in stockades and other zone...

[@CatDad312]

This is not true.

[@Envy188]

@@CatDad312 You mean this for real? just check in youyoube "season of discovery bots" there are maaany videos of them doing it on your server... mostly mages and hunters., just go to hillsbrad foothills and check out western strand you will meet atleast 5 hunter bots...

[@Quadromil4]

Vanilla players don't understand that the frustration they feel now is what I and other players felt back when vanilla players were playing their favorite addons, which to me are terribly boring.

[@MartinRaykovski]

Dont you ever ask them to touch the WARLOCKS in CATA! :P