The Future of Belgium’s Troubled Army

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Chapters:
0:00 - Intro
0:30 - Squads
3:24 - Platoons
4:34 - Company & Tactical Groups
6:52 - Battalions
8:10 - Modernization
Corrections:
• At 10:10, this statement has actually recently been made untrue as they are upgrading DF30s to include mounted Spike-MR ATGMs
Sources:
• Consultation with Belgian soldiers
• Fantassins No. 42
• defencebelgium.com/2022/06/14...
• defencebelgium.com/2023/06/20...
• defencebelgium.com/2020/03/06...
• defencebelgium.com/2022/09/21...
• defencebelgium.com/2022/06/30...
• www.defense.gouv.fr/eurosator...
• STAR Plan: dedonder.belgium.be/sites/def...
• www.oryxspioenkop.com/2023/09...

[@BattleOrder]

Play World of Warships here: wo.ws/3FbEFxM Thank you World of Warships for sponsoring this video. During registration use the code BRAVO to get for free: 500 doubloons, 1.5 million credits, 7 Days of Premium Account time, and a ship! Applicable to new users only. _____ 10:10 - This statement has actually recently been made untrue because they are upgrading DF30s to have mounted Spike-MR ATGMs

[@DogeickBateman]

Your Russian battle maps video is filled with Russoids

[@AUsernameWeShallMarchToKiev]

@@DogeickBateman What do you want Battle Order to do? Personally delete all comments from Russia?

[@DogeickBateman]

@@AUsernameWeShallMarchToKiev Yes :trollface:

[@sheriff0017]

It's the world's best cure for thrush.

[@alexanderjoseph3500]

the mk3 are mostly used by the 4th (support) section. all the other sections use the mk2 as their LMG.

[@hellbreaksloose5536]

Its funny in a way that the Belgians are getting more integrated with the French while the Dutch are getting more integrated with the Germans.

[@512TheWolf512]

something something natural borders

[@edocsil123]

The dutch have been fully integrated into the german army earlier this year

[@LiamNL]

The Dutch army is getting more integrated with the German army, whilst the German marines are getting integrated in the Dutch marines, who are already tied in to the British marine units.

[@MyReiners]

​@@512TheWolf512 a more Belgian political compromise than natural borders. Navy integrated with the Dutch navy as a compensation( for the Walloons army) integrated with the French. Belgium's politics: a thin line of comprimise. Flemish will never accept all defence integration with France, Walloons not with the Dutch. So compromises. Buying new navy ships with the Dutch, buying army equipment from the French. This is with all military procurement we bought F-35 (under Flemish majority government), not the Rafale, the South angry, now there is a French speaking (Flemish minority) now we are have observer status for the French ‘Systeme de Combat Aérien du Futur (as the French promised deals for companies in Wallonia). Is is more political logic than military one.

[@MyReiners]

​ Amore Belgian political compromise than natural borders. Navy integrated with the Dutch navy as a compensation( for the Walloons army) integrated with the French. Belgium's politics: a thin line of comprimise. Flemish will never accept all defence integration with France, Walloons not with the Dutch. So compromises. Buying new navy ships with the Dutch, buying army equipment from the French. This is with all military procurement we bought F-35 (under Flemish majority government), not the Rafale, the South angry, now there is a French speaking (Flemish minority) now we are have observer status for the French ‘Systeme de Combat Aérien du Futur (as the French promised deals for companies in Wallonia). Is more political logic than military one.

[@changlu9649]

I'm a member of the Belgian Air Force, I applaud the accuracy and research you've done for this video. Everything was spot on and well researched. The only thing that might be outdated was the Jigsaw camo on the images of the soldiers. The vast majority of the Belgian military switched over to multicam since this year.

[@4T3hM4kr0n]

probably because the only military footage he could find used the outdated camo, you did say it was swapped to digital as early as this year

[@BrouwerVids]

All the cool unique camouflages get replaced by generic multicam

[@4T3hM4kr0n]

@@BrouwerVids like Alpenflage (TAZ-83), the camo of a pizza delivery man on the frontline

[@Zeroground300]

@@BrouwerVids I mean camo is meant to be functional, not cool and unique, so this is probably a good thing.

[@CamouflageMaster]

ABL camo lives on, in our hearts ❤

[@menmenm]

The 90mm gun was only decided because the defense minister (André Flahaut) at the time gave the contract to a friend with a factory. The plan was for 105mm to actually replace the Leopards. This corruption only came to light when the ministers changed and the order was immediately stopped iirc. There literally was no strategic or tactical reason for switching to 90mm.

[@f87max30]

Every time a french speaking socialist becomes minister of defense, corruption starts and the contracts go to french companies.

[@85daniel]

That would have been a question from me. Because 105mm is an absolute Nato standart. Is there an other Nato nation which use 90mm shells actually? If not it can be very expensive in the future especially if there are not many manufacturer(and i think so). Is it the same ammo calliber like in the old M48 Patton?

[@Wannes_]

@@85daniel nobody in NATO uses Flahaut's 90mm gun ... one of the reasons to withdraw them

[@user-ek9vo2ub9b]

Honestly, why not experiment with a 122mm Autoloading Tank Destroyer based off the M4 Sherman?

[@Real_Claudy_Focan]

@@85daniel 90mm was supposed to be sold to South-East Asia countries because it was made for trials for their abundant M41 chassis they got. Cockerill lost the trials but were overconfident and already built dozens of these guns !! And to avoid bankruptcy, MoD bought these guns platforms

[@lecroco-kp4oc]

Belgian recon here, great video! Army been in dissaray from the 90s until 2015

[@quintus_rex7381]

Imagine if only we had AMX10 to go with Pandur And if only we had Leclerc/leopard2 for the combat units

[@lecroco-kp4oc]

@@quintus_rex7381 just imagine, one thing I always tell my colleague is that a single Battalion of Leopards or Abrams or K2's would do better for public image and recruiting than all those expensive TV ads they make every year

[@quintus_rex7381]

@@lecroco-kp4oc ah yes, those Ads with not-issued-to-everyone NVG in a bright sunny day 🥸 At least we still have some leopard as decoy in our barracks and camps

[@frednoname3714]

Salut d'un français compliment pour votre engagement !! Pour les chars on va attendre que KMW et Rheinmetall s'entendent et on vous fera un beau MBT surtout avec KMW ( pas du tout besoin de Rheinmetall y a Nexter) vive nos AMIS belges !!!

[@th3sh3rm4n4]

I hope you don't mind if I ask you what the difference is between the Jagers te paard en the infantry recon platoon?

[@realityapostasy2158]

I love it when you are covering less well known armies or operations. Really an exellent source to learn about it.

[@malithaw]

Should cover relevant non western armies instead of covering irrlevant small armies like this, just because they are "european"

[@realityapostasy2158]

@malithaw he has done videos on china and japan. And a lot of countries dont really have these informations easily accessable.

[@chemistryfps]

@@malithawlove how u say irrelevant small armies like this yet comment “do indian army next” 💀💀💀💀💀

[@malithaw]

@@chemistryfps you think is Indian army is a small, non relevant army? 💀

[@vyfee]

Me on twitter "Oh nice Battleorder is going to do a video about the Belgian army, let's hope he doesn't bring out our terrible procurement like oryx always does." Sees titles: Dies inside

[@bobvanpeborgh6312]

I've served within the Belgian Army during 8 years(from 1982-end of 89)in which I personally witnest several weaknesses in several weapon-systems in the artillery-purchases of that day(M109-M110) It never cease to amaze me how some military purchases/decisions are made within the Belgian army. You've obviously done your home-work on this and have my respect for it...

[@Scar-L-light]

we are going to buy more Caesar today we just need more capable things for antitank task like tanks or more antitank system like the mmp french missile or the javelin

[@BoringAngler]

Informative video and a "delightful" reminder that weird and corrupt military procurement decisions aren't restricted to big spenders like the US and Russia or developing nations.

[@user-ib4wh2yq8d]

Ты это не говори обычным жителям украины они "уверовали" в что в странах ЕС нет коррупции и все живут богато . эти дурочки просто не понимают как работает коррупция в разных странах в США это называется лоббирование в РФ это может принимать разные формы . и что самое удивительное на низовых уровнях это может быть благом . например для ускорение выполнения каких либо бюрократических условий. Все зависит как на это смотреть . и какой ущерб это приносит.

[@justalonesoul5825]

@@user-ib4wh2yq8d maybe learn to translate your comments if you want to engage in discussion in a comment section that's 99.999% english. You cant expect every possible reader to use a translator themselves. Do your homework.

[@brentywenty]

@@justalonesoul5825 You can turn around the argument and say: it's not that hard to translate through a translator. Don't be a lazy ass.

[@flybeep1661]

@@user-ib4wh2yq8d Nobody is going to bother with that. Why even comment?

[@joeblow9657]

Loved the Flanders graphic

[@KenshiroPlayDotA]

2:52 : "Weapons not to scale" *Laughs in Canadian with the C2 LMG in Wargame: Airland Battle, where the C2 was probably some 50% larger than in reality, which would have implied an insane recoil for the user*

[@necp4792]

I saw you also talked about the 43 Gemechaniseerde brigade (Dutch Mechanized brigade), can you do that one next, that would be really interesting to see as I heard they where going to upgrade their CV90's with a MLU.

[@takagabriel]

Would love to see some content on the Singapore Armed Forces. Some real impressive gear coming out of such a small country. Army's pretty massive relative to population size too.

[@HerrZenki]

I agree. The SAF packs heavy despite its lack of combat experience compared to its regional peers.

[@jonhart7630]

Singapore is a very rich country and has the best navy and airforce in South East Asia. The army is good too. However, Singapore has a terrible birth rate so the number of available conscripts will fall very sharply.

[@samuel.p825]

As a member of a Direct fire platoon (df-30 and 90 gunner), I can say this is pretty accurate

[@infrared909]

It's pretty much our best option as a small country to have close cooperation with the French army like the Dutch to with the German army. Makes it more efficient in if needed a real situation.

[@Lecruque]

Yes, so are the european and Nato initiatives, but they cannot serve as an excuse to fragment and downgrade your army by leaning on your partners to do the job.

[@christianwouters6764]

I suspect that the Belgian military looks to France instead the Netherlands because the French speaking don't understand or speak a word of Dutch/Flemish.

[@stevenbastin8741]

​@@christianwouters6764they have to speak English within the army anyway. And the dutch speak an almost perfect English. So nope. The reason would rather be that France has a bigger and better army, as well as many years of experience they're also in the top 3 most powerful European armies. The other options being the UK (which are quite far and yet, some Belgian special forces trains with them) and Germany (now we could suggest language barriers, only barely)

[@nikolasmaes99]

@@stevenbastin8741 Belgium isn't some satellite state to France, although France often behaves that way. Belgium finally condemned the war in Mali. A Belgian died in Mali, thanks to a fuckup of the French foreign legion. There never was a problem saying no to the war in Iraq though. So in some way, Belgium does seem to be in it deep with France. Belgium had the first licensed snipers on the European mainland since 1993, half year training in England. Then there's the training ground in Otterburn, Scottland for the para's, who are entirely modeled after British example. Also historically, it was the UK that guaranteed Belgium's neutrality, so it makes a lot more sense to seek further integration with them. The main and final objective should of course be a European army... In which neither France, the UK or Germany has the biggest say because that rivalry is always contra productive and still very vivid till this day, especially in the army. Maybe just linguistical for the English, for obvious reasons.

[@Stargazzer811]

Honestly, as a smaller military it might be better for you guys to explore the combat team option. Something at the battalion level that's akin to a regimental combat team would do wonders, as each unit would be able to self-support and thus be more tactically effective. I would advise against following the Russian example for obvious reasons, but the Brits and the US have decent examples.

[@brandeschuytter4374]

As a Belgian I found this video very informative

[@flybeep1661]

As a Belgian I've found the content of this video embarrassing. Ons leger is werkelijk behoorlijk zielig.

[@majormoolah5056]

The cannon on the Jaguar is a technical marvel. At 40mm, it has the same ballistic power as a 105mm cannon. It has canistered ammunition, so you have a much higher ammo capacity. And it has several different types of ammo to boot

[@PiFe00]

It's a 40 mm and the stuff you typed is what they tried to tell everyone and so far it has been a spectacular failure. The actual performance has been abysmal...

[@majormoolah5056]

@@PiFe00List the problems.

[@PiFe00]

@@majormoolah5056 The telescoped ammunition does not reach anywhere near it's desired lethal effect due to the combustion not working properly and just basically a lot of wishful thinking and clever marketing without taking into account the reality of physics. The penetration values at range are laughable compared to 105 and so is the HE burst effect (inate due to its size). They said the RoF would compensate (many medium booms instead of one BIG BOOM ...). They tried to sell it as valid replacement for a medium calibre gun but should just accept it for what it is, a decent (not great) autocannon. They could (should) have mounted an existing 30 mm for virtually the same effect and a fraction of the cost.

[@majormoolah5056]

@@PiFe00 What are your sources?

[@sulivanboris784]

The voices in the sky@@majormoolah5056

[@napsiuslebelche5846]

They aren't really planning to become a "smaller french army". Like, at all. They're just willing to be more interoperable with their neighbors. They will be using France's comm systems, as well as some of their vehicles (who are pretty good, and they needed new vehicles anyway. But for example, they will buy Oshkosh's JLTV as a command vehicle). They are building a new international unit, with Luxembourg. Their navy is basically 100% interoperable with the Netherlands' navy (so much so that in case of a war in Europe, both navies will be unified as one), etc. But they will keep their independance, etc. Also, it's not just the infantry who's getting "frenchized", but the whole Land Component. Basically, they want to show how an "European army" could be. Not under a single command, same equipment, etc etc. But with basically a web of interoperability

[@denjo3131]

Indeed, I would say that the Belgian and Dutch army are more related to each other than the Belgian and French. It's also beautiful about Belgium, the Netherlands and Luxembourg how they work together. Honestly, I think that one Benelux-army would be better (cheaper for the Netherlands, but the most important condition is that Belgium invests more). It could become an army just behind the most important armies.

[@ReddoFreddo]

​@@denjo3131 Belgian military should integrate with other countries' militaries on their own terms, based on whatever is strategically the most sensible thing to do. The end goal is having a stronger NATO, not a stronger Benelux. A Benelux army would just be a Dutch army, there's no reason to create that for its own sake. I can already sense the scandals that would arise, Dutch generals subconsciously sending Belgian companies on statistically more dangerous missions than Dutch ones, etc. Dutch generals favoring Dutch defense manufacturers. Miscommunication due to language and dialect differences. A culture of rivalry between different nationalities. I can think of plenty of scenarios. It also doesn't make sense because the Belgian army should be operated based on Belgian votes, not Dutch or Luxembourgian votes. Like, would Belgian political parties have to argue about defense spending with Dutch political parties? Makes no sense. Besides, Belgium already works closely with the Netherlands and Luxembourg, so in that sense a Benelux army already exists. And intuitively, it seems having diversity is good, different institutions can come up with unique ideas based on their institution's unique culture. This is why markets are more efficient than command economies or monopolies. I would rather fight 2 big armies than 1 big army and 3 smaller armies closely cooperating with each other and the big army.

[@MathTheBelgian]

In ln opinion and based on research. Belgium can easily rebuild it's army by making defence to 2.1´% of it's GDP. I think it's also necessary to buy advanced weaponry, tanks and more drones.

[@4nthr4x]

I've never really looked into Belgium's Army composition or status, even for it being my own country. But this random video popped up, got my attention, and I'm glad I watched it. Thank you

[@Thomas-gs8ug]

I'm Belgian and it hurts me to see our army in such a shamefull state. Time to invest more in a true army that is not only meant to support our bigger allies, but can also defend itself and be independant if need be

[@jamesjross]

Just surrender... Maybe join the invaders murderous death army and fight in the east. I don't know.

[@user-ek9vo2ub9b]

Become a PM fren, that way you can work to increase defense spending to 5.75% GDP over the next 5 Fiscal Years...

[@auzor5900]

​​@@user-ek9vo2ub9b5.75% GDP, LULz, we're coming from below 1% at the lowest, very, very slowly going to the 2% benchmark.

[@jamesjross]

Invade The Netherlands?

[@justalonesoul5825]

In the era of UE and NATO, and other superpowers like China and its 1.4B inhabitants, a super small country like Belgium cannot be expected to defend itself independantly against any threat. And the country is being bled dry by ultraliberals and capitalists anyway. We dont have resources for the army and more pressing issues than being invaded from France or Germany, or The Netherlands! Time to invest more in our infrastructures, hospitals, doctors and nurses. In schools, public services, public transport. Costa Rica has lived its life without the slightest army since 1948 and has been largely better for it.

[@ThisIsDale09]

Interesting mix of the M72 and the MATADOR at the Platoon level, that is a lack of medium/heavy AT capability that other comparable forces get with NLAW/Carl Gustav. Seems to be a deliberate choice with the direct fire platoon having the AT capability, I wonder how closely integrated they are in action.

[@LeonardTavast]

The state of their army is really sad. I read Oryx's blogpost about the topic a week or so ago and it's good that more people talk about it openly.

[@GoogleGebruiker]

Yeah I read it too! It’s abhorrent.

[@blitzhill9533]

Yeah it's really scary and sad for Belgium, no MBTs, poor anti tank capabilities, no anti air system and a very barebone artillery corp

[@alexanderp8037]

Don't worry all the "scientist" that arrive from africa will design their AA systems 🤡

[@justalonesoul5825]

We are a country that has no weight at all in the game, stuck between the two main forces of Western Europe. Spending countless billions in the military is what's ludicrous. Belgian people dont care about having MBTs or F-35's and they have no need for them either. We need proper infrastructures in proper state of maintenance, proper transport, proper administrations, proper educational system, proper medical and care systems able to cope with seasonal diseases instead of saturating on the slightest flu epidemic......

[@jva4120]

Always the silly either/or story. All that doesn't matter if the baseline is being gnawed at from the exterior.

[@martijn5512]

Seems like you forgot to mention the integration of Spike MR into the 30mm RWS of the Piranha DF30. A few years ago some (all?) were modernized with a turret capable of firing Spike MR, so there is a mounted AT capability in the battalions.

[@panzerknoef]

If I'm not mistaken, that upgrade is still underway. Haven't seen too many images of upgrades platforms yet

[@user-lg4mm3mf8i]

@@panzerknoef The DF30's have received the Spike ATGM's upgrade in 2022-2023. The ones that I have seen at events and on bases have them.

[@terrannomad]

i can confirm most of them have the "upgrade" if we can call it an upgrade since shooting a missile badly fucks-up the vehicule but there is a solution on it's way@@user-lg4mm3mf8i

[@TigerGaming044]

gotta love belgian content, please make more of these video's! you make us belgians very happy

[@dobbo1235]

Would love to see some content on the Australian Defence Force. Keep up the good work!

[@lucajellinek1332]

Really interesting, detailed reports, thanks.

[@ProfessorAlexanderNexus]

Hey, Great video ! I would love to hear more about Belgium's Special Operations Regiments. It's structure, role and stuff !

[@NextMobile-ui7go]

Hi, go to check in line,"special force group "Belgique ...SFG.... Ex ESR....👍

[@OCS-vr7my]

Maybe, as a small country, they should focus on hypermodernizing a large drone fleet,

[@MyReiners]

A population of more than 11,5 million people, just lack of political will. We refuse to arm our new combat drones.

[@redwithblackstripes]

Close integration with French forces has always been their best bet, Belgium's borders are basically France natural borders, beyond that the majority of problems the Belgian armed forces have faced is their politics.

[@McKillaboy]

We need the money for our health care and pension funds. No room for army stuff.

[@Lecruque]

I used to be a Mistral gunner, awesome platform and glad they are bringing it back!

[@cjclark1208]

The SCAR gives me the same feeling as when I first saw the WW2 STG assault rifle, so aesthetic.

[@Brain__]

Literally doing my interview there tomorrow. Cannot time a video better!

[@Lars_00]

How did it go

[@morrischen5777]

Very cool vid. Topic suggestion: Taiwanese armed force with similar analysis like this video since they also is facing some armor vehicle development issue. Maybe you can also explain an example of Taiwanese defense toward the scenario you've made before in Chinese amphibious force video.

[@kevinyaucheekin1319]

There is no such thing as the taiwanese armed forces. There, the Republic of China Army that is is based primarily on the island of taiwan. 😊

[@xtninertwo8728]

Love the Flanders reference at 7:02 lol

[@thibaultghesquiere]

Lol I missed that thanks xD

[@davewxc]

Belgium had disinvestment in its army since the early 90s as the political decision was that war isn't the army's business anymore and there came a focus on smaller roles as peacekeeping, demining, some limited special forces action. Yes, that may seem absurd, but Belgian politics repeatedly said the army doesn't need fighting capability. As a result of this all tanks and anti tank capability were scraped, anti air was abolished, artillery was out and the defence minister was allowed to order his Piranha vehicles with a substandard not NATO compatible gun that would benefit a factory where his constituents worked. The moment that minister was gone, the army tried to get out of it, but it was too late. Now the Piranhas have to be replaced as they suffer from many problems. The other 'special' vehicle from that era, the Iveco LMV also have to be replaced as they are falling apart after just a decade of service. Copying France is probably the best way to quickly fix things back into operational as the current army isn't even capable of going to a standard African peacekeeping mission anymore. All have clearly seen drones make air defence a basic survival requirement as anyone nowadays can do improv air bombardment with anti armour shells. Getting tanks would be a nice bonus, but given how underequiped the Belgian army is now, getting things up to French standards is the main priority now. Because the moment the Ukraine war isn't in the news, Belgian politics will try to find a way to disinvest in the army again.

[@4T3hM4kr0n]

ouch, did having their country being used as a flanking manuever during both world wars really want them to castrate themselves that badly in the way of the military?

[@deadahead6775]

I don't think getting MBTs is a priority or even the right move for Belgium. From an European perspective, it's more efficient for the smaller countries to invest in what the bigger countries lack, or to conform to their organization to completement them better. This is the current move. Belgium and the Netherlands focusing on air power and lighter, more strategically mobile units makes more sense than to for heavy, less flexible armored units like Germany or Poland. This is a step in the right direction, as you said, but I also fear the Wallon/Flemish divide will once again interfere with a cohesive Belgian policy.

[@HORDE36]

@@deadahead6775 I can agree with this sentiment, but then we'd actually have to invest more in our air power as well. Would need to order about a dozen more F-35 than we ordered currently, finally make the decision to arm our Reaper drones and procure some additional cheaper light strike drones in the class of the TB2 imo.

[@MaxwellAerialPhotography]

Tanks at this point for a military as small as Belgiums will be a nice bonus, but not a priority, since if they ever went out to fight, they would likely be integrated with allied armour. That being said, the Jaguar is an astoundingly good vehicle, and will serve the Belgian Troops well as a armoured recon and direct fire support vehicle.

[@Rampant16]

@@deadahead6775 I certainly agree with you. Overall Belgium getting their own tanks would be prohibitively expensive and would degrade their other capabilities. However, one potential option could be for Belgium to rent tanks from France similarly to what the Dutch are doing with German Leopards. It could be a more affordable way for Belgium to retain a unit within their own army trained in armored warfare, comfortable with working closely with France, and which could potentially be expanded more quickly in a time of severe crisis. Although, unlike the Dutch, Belgium has not had MBTs in decades so whatever domestic knowledge base they had it long gone.

[@logannicholson1850]

I would really like to see a comparison to the Dutch infantry units now considering they are integrating with the German army

[@ddviper8813]

Maybe the Italian Army in a future video. Think that would be cool

[@frednoname3714]

Very interesting as an Fr I didn't realised we are so close from French's language belgium forces. Hystorically always did what they could. Not only for business didn't neither new they already got Jaguars, and Griffon ( saw Griffon on truck, it looks small but in real it is "BIG" ) "recon" in FR style contains agressive posture not at all only "detect" ❓️ 200 rounds/minute from CTC 40mm of little jaguar.. donno if an MBT can stay 100% efficient ?

[@imwinningthisone7613]

What?

[@wheneggsdrop1701]

Good job, I've read the oryx article and you've summarized it very well. I look forward to future cooperative videos like this.

[@BattleOrder]

I wouldn't say it was cooperative, they probably don't know I exist lol. I used their recent article as a source/jumping off point to talk more about the DF90's flaws than I initially planned, but my Patrons got the script for this video back in March

[@wheneggsdrop1701]

​@@BattleOrderI am sure they know of your existence battle order, I thought with the link in the description and shared topic it was a collaborative effort with your video being a bit delayed. Maybe you could get in contact see if you guys could get something in the works 😅.

[@BattleOrder]

@@wheneggsdrop1701 I'm pretty sure they've shut down

[@wheneggsdrop1701]

@@BattleOrder yup I believe oryx is done if not almost done a a project. A few articles of visual loss data will be maintained. Its sad to see such a fine piece of journalism cease to operate due to burnout and pressure.

[@gotanon9659]

​@@wheneggsdrop1701pretty sure oryx is a 2 man team and the dutch guy is the one that retiring

[@kiankier7330]

Battle Order, Idk about your plans on videos of older unit concept, but there is some digital material on Danish army structure during 1930s and up to 1940, 9 of April, that you may find useful for a video at some point

[@notximpressed]

I know you generally just do whatever you like and not what others tell you to, but Dutch Army integration into German Bundeswehr would be a really cool and niche subject as well.

[@Dorgon_HetuAla]

Get a high-tech modern army with a small amount of money. The French army is a good example. The modernization and upgrading of the Chinese Army draws in-depth reference from the French Army and the Canadian Army. For example: Changhe Z-10 helicopter, ZBL-08 Infantry Fighting Vehicle, PCL-181 howitzer.

[@andrewwiggins9262]

@@gabaghoul__I think he is making a reference to the capability not the machine itself

[@nielsjanssens8445]

Funny to see myself in the mortal video at the end. Great video!

[@rc666]

Never underestimate the ABL, when promised beer on the other side.

[@vq-gamesblitz]

I'm from Belgium, Flanders and i want to join the army next year, gives me great joy and a bit of pride we're finnally starting to improve but mainly fix our army

[@da41]

why would you want to die for a country that doesn't give a f about you or your family

[@stevenbastin8741]

​@@da41because HE cares for his family and friends. You don't join in hoping to save politics but hoping to protect your loved ones. You are free to run like a coward and leave your country. No one would mind

[@vq-gamesblitz]

@@stevenbastin8741 exactly, u understand me brother i want to join to protect my loved ones, for honor and for duty

[@vq-gamesblitz]

@@da41 i want to join to protect my loved ones, for honor and for duty

[@dante9002]

@@stevenbastin8741you take care of your family by providing them protection resources and guidance. army doesn’t pay, you’re constantly away from your family and you’re only dying for some old bald men that went on a powertrip. By joining the army you only feed the war machine and contribute to destruction. While you are dying in a trench like a real hero i’ll make sure my family is safe. Also you’re not helping your family by being dead.

[@davidrodrigueztoro6512]

Awesome video. Could you do one on the Colombian army?

Nice Video. WOWS was really dishing out a lot of money at the End of last year :)

[@arnaudpeltot]

Nice vidéo, a friend of mine is in 1 of the bataljon

[@pauls.2451]

with the war Ukraine, infantry sections are also training to deploy with an RGW MATADOR + extra shot in addition to the two LAWs (though in practice replacing them because no one wants to carry that much shit). This is what the motorized brigade's command wants in any case, but the Belgian army doesn't have enough in stock currently to actually equip infantry sections in such a way.

[@Mrblk92]

Low key talking about all these roles reminds me of this game back on the OG xbox called full spectrum warrior.

[@takoza5396]

the ned flanders insert XD hahaha good one lol

[@va_sirberpasir9708]

So basically the Belgian rn is playing Wargame motorized deck

[@BeanAstros]

Very good video, keep it up💪, you should talk about the failure of the Portuguese Army next specialy its Mechanized Brigade 😂

[@maartenvandoorslaer8712]

small correction - at around 11:27 you put "Battjon jagers te paard" as a dutch translation - the dutch term is "Bataljon" not "Battjon".

[@lukejohnston4666]

Some M109s and M113s of Belgium ended up in my country.

[@weuder23234]

Can you make a video of finnish infantry structure?

[@usifkisoq-uy9zn]

Cant wait to meet my 2024 belastingsbrief

[@Dylan-pj7rv]

As a french i love the belgian army, some how i feel they're like our little brothers, and the fact that they will adopt our equipment it's pretty cool. The only shit thing is the fact their army is divided by languages and regionalism, i think it's and it will be a huge obstacle for making a better Belgium army

[@laurenspede2673]

As a reservist in the Belgian motorized brigade, which consists of both french speaking, dutch spreaking and bilingual units, I've never experienced language as a barrier for co-operation. Belgians are generally capable of speaking the second language to some degree at least. Furthermore, when we train with our Wallonian sister unit, we always give briefings and communicate in English, as would be the case in international operations with other NATO countries.

[@ltournay]

bof, pas vraiment, il faut être bilingue (soit parler la 2e langue nationale soit anglais) pour être pris dans la défense il me semble, c'est le cas pour la plupart des belges en général, ona des cours de langues des la primaire...

[@PiFe00]

@@ltournay only officers need to be bilingual. The general consensus is, if there's ONE French speaking dude in the group ...we all speak French :-) The op does have a good point though, deployment of a flemish unit in a French Bn in a hot conflict will never, ever happen, there is just too much risk of miscommunication

[@janboen3630]

As a Belgian reserve officer I'm offended by your language statement. The Dutch speaking majority in Belgium still has a trauma from French speaking overlordship which lasts until today. The Flemish speak French much more readily than our French speaking counterparts. Close cooperation with France will make matters "worst" in our armed forces.

[@TheBayru]

... the only reason we little belgians seem to like the french is because we hate the dutch more ... *just kidding, we have an equal distaste for both their imperialistic mindsets. In practice the flemish-walloon opposition is political theatre to keep the dutch and the french from invading our borders. ;-) *not really meaning that, please don't nuke Waterloo, we're still very scared of the French Terrorrists we swear. Joking aside, the language is only a barrier for promotion opportunities. Working together with someone from a different language region is not much harder than working together with someone from another city, they are equally unintelligable due to diversity in dialects so we're used to it. Working with the french is harder because they say weird shit like 60 12 instead of 72. Or they talk for 15 minutes in vague generalities and assume everyone agrees with the decision they made in their head, and then the Walloon and the Flemming at the table will look at eachother like "wtf, why did he leave after a useless 15 minute string of 'formules de politesse'?"

[@jean-louismorelle5398]

C'est beau la théorie, les prévisions, les projets. La réalité est souvent toute autre.

[@BartJBols]

Love how Belgium splits up batallions in "1 per language"

[@GoogleGebruiker]

Im interested in a Dutch army vid next!

[@johnvanwinckel3630]

It's good that the belgian army is finally modernizing I just hope they also don't forget about the logistic picture

[@EpicThe112]

Very cool topic I wonder if you can do one on the Belarusian military because Belgian troops are in Eastern Europe ready to face Russian and Belarusian soldiers

[@nodiaqvonduck3873]

Hey Battle Order, I was wondering if you could make a video on the danish armed forces. Maybe the mechanized battalion. I would love to see one on the danish armed forces. Love from denmark

[@LawL_LawL]

At around 12:25 in the video you say "155mm" but on-screen it reads 105mm, and the guns themselves look like 105s if I'm not mistaken.

[@hansbraam73]

The subtle Flanders joke is approved.

[@kiwimasterkiwi]

video on the Italian army?

[@whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy-hx9ff]

Lol, that Flanders reference.

[@stinkeyiphone3870]

Could you please do More videos on the Canadian Military, Thanks Man

[@felixthecat4191]

The Belgian army doesn't exist to wage war, or even to fight. We only use it to parade in front of the Royal Palace on National Day. It also parades in the streets to reassure the population when there are terrorist attacks (A Belgian).

[@-timothydexterthegreatestp5391]

We have Military deployed in 4 different countries tho

[@Kristoffceyssens]

Gotta love the old camo pattern.

[@MrPirax]

That's a lot of NCOs in those sections :-P And in my time minimi was 5.56, but maybe they also made it 7.62

[@NicolaiVE]

Nice revieuw, I din't know were were getting the griffon mortar carriers. But one thing, belgium is also ordering 322 Oshkosh JLTV vehicles (Command an Liason - CLV vehicles) And there are also studies for a possible air defense and/or missile defense group and new light and heavy helicopters to replace the Augusta and NH90

[@Wannes_]

Ah, the helicopter joke ... Belgium has issues keeping its TTH90s properly maintained - too expensive But now they'd like to operate even more expensive Chinooks 🤑 Not sure how that's supposed to work out ...

[@NicolaiVE]

@Wannes_ true, but the chinooks (if purchased) can do a lot more lifting. and the Augusta's where the wrong choice from the beginning, it was a whole corruption scandal.

[@Wannes_]

@@NicolaiVE I'm not too sure the recent purchases in this vid aren't the result of corruption either - it's all ill-assorted French gear ... No commonality to reduce logistics, maintenance & training burden within the Belgian Army itself If you can't afford to keep TTH90 flying, you can't afford Chinooks

[@NicolaiVE]

@Wannes_ the camo program ensures a better level of cooperation between army's. the griffon and jaguar have many parts in common with civilian vehicles (70%+) wich makes for easier and faster maintenance at a reduced cost. I don't know if it is the right choice, but it's better than the current condition. However I will be sad to see the pirana's go, even the DF90 had its use. (should have been a DF105, cockrill makes those turrets as well..)

[@NicolaiVE]

And it's not being able to afford the MH90's is the flight time to repair/maintanace that is the problem.

[@realmupke]

As an ex-soldier of belgium, i must say you sure did your homework :-)

[@ysbrand1114]

Could you make a video about the Netherlands? They are also quite interesting since they lease 18 Leopard2A6's from Germany.

[@HedgehogZone]

I heard they get leo2a8.

[@ysbrand1114]

@@HedgehogZone where did you hear that? I'm Dutch myself and I love tanks it would be fucking awesome

[@m.a.3864]

7:02 Flanders

[@giorgoskatsarakis9652]

Please do some videos on the greek military

[@512TheWolf512]

SCAR is said to be an amazing gun in real combat

[@alexanderp8037]

The latest variants are better than m4 and m16. The bren 2 is just as good but cheaper

[@4T3hM4kr0n]

Seems like a cost cutting measure if they're simply beefing up the infantry and APC's/IFV's to perform more anti armor and artillery/infantry support roles. It's like if you focused all your upgrades on your infantry units in an RTS game. While the infantry will kick ass being enhanced jack of all trades, they ultimately will get destroyed by other units due to a lack of armor and air units to compensate for the infantries shortcomings. Guess a more appropriate title would be "how the belgian army failed at combines arms doctrine due to complacency with the end of the cold war"

[@thibaultghesquiere]

tbh I don't ever see the belgian engaging in a war alone, (but I might be wrong) and the integration with the french seems a good idea in this sense.

[@skylongskylong1982]

Belgium Paratroopers, are still very professional, and well into the top five of airborne.

[@Unb3arablePain]

I always heard that the FN FiveSeven (5.7x28mm) was in use by military units but refused to believe it until after this video. Certainly a surprise but not irrational. 5.7x28mm handguns, whether made by FN or other brands like Ruger, S&W, PSA, etc. are quickly becoming popular civilian self-defense pistols in the United States so the weapons system will likely live on.

[@auzor5900]

Belgian politics: it's the Belgian (well.. Walloon) company. So Walloon politicians shove as much FN equipment to the army as they can, prices be damned.

[@angelmon6]

nice greetings from flanders

[@sulev111]

I think they need more long bow men.

[@AlbertShell]

Are you gonna do anything on the Czech Army - big new acquisitions coming!

[@edocsil123]

you sound like a local band posting 'big news comming!'

[@HanSolo__]

7:03 Ned Flanders? 😄

[@iacobibrasiliensium2139]

Hey Battle Order, when are you going to talk about South American militaries?

[@AntoineSojicYT]

You know, when I see these foreing army ranks, I'm a little lost. Do you think you could do a video for the belgian military rank, and another for the french military ranks, and see ho they compare to the US military Ranks?

[@lollysticky]

wikipedia maintains a full list for all ranks :) See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranks_and_insignia_of_NATO (click the army/navy/airforce links on the page to go to detailed comparison tables)

[@wouterv414]

2/4 lancers confirmed btw, maybe coming to the future base in Geraardsbergen

[@kajus1402]

Any tips for looking for sources? Even when I can speak the local language, I tend to struggle with finding sources for future organization plans. For example, as a non-serving Lithuanian, I can only find the (theoretical) organization of an IFV Vilkas infantry group(8 men, consisting of a navigator, squad leader, MG gunner, MG assistant(to my knowledge, it is planned to replace the MG assistance once the army switches MGs), rifleman "savior"(likely a rifleman field medic), section leader, AT-gunner, AT-assistant), only to find out units armed with APCs tend to use a separate one, that is much larger.

[@BattleOrder]

It's easy if you're after American stuff but for those smaller countries, like Lithuania, I normally have to talk directly to soldiers to get any good info. I benefit since with my social media platforms people often come to me and it's not too hard to put a call out that people respond to, but as a Lithuanian maybe you could find someone in real life

[@drap867]

Can you make a Video about the modern german Jägertruppe or the Panzergrenadiere

[@augustuslunasol10thapostle]

Jeez man a fuckin FN five seven per person? Shit i thought the scars were excessive but reasonable the five sevens though pure fucking luxury

[@UnitedArmsMovies]

Cooperation with foreign militaries is nothing new. Belgium already has a long term partnership with the French to facilitate the basic pilot training programme and we do have a joint command for the navy with the dutch aswell as joint procurement for frigates and minesweepers/hunters. The major problem this army has faced and continues to face is the complete lack of long term financial decisions from the government which means that every couple of years, the military has to completely change it's investment plans and they don't seem to manage to get a coherent strategy because of it. Another major issue has been recruitment, the belgian army is filled with old man and replacing those has proven to be difficult since the younger generation has no intrest in joining the military due to the "reputation" of the army and the low, or presumption of, salary.

[@BartBe]

7:03 i saw that! 😂

[@ThatAdamIsMild]

Bags not being the AVC who has to pull solo security duty 😢

[@gustavmeyrink_2.0]

If I were Belgium I'd get rid of the Piranha and CAESAR and replace both with GTK Boxer and the appropriate mission modules. Belgium itself makes one with a 105mm gun and KMW make the RCH155 turning the Boxer into the only SPH which can fire on the move.

[@010Jordi]

I'm half Dutch and it's sad the Dutch army in integrating with the german army. And the Belgium army is integrating with the French army. Even tho they should be cooperating with each other.

[@stevenbastin8741]

I believe they're still cooperating with their navies, only the land components are working with France and Germany. As for the air forces I'm not sure

[@010Jordi]

@stevenbastin8741 Yes, our navy's are cooperating. and we switch the responsibility to guard our airspace every couple of months

[@jerregaming6009]

To quote any belgian watching this: " oh yeah? With what money?"

[@randomlyentertaining8287]

Whenever I hear the M2 .50 being in foriegn service, the term "American People Deleter" comes to mind lol

[@jackrackham3406]

3:30 So, dumb question--why do they bother having a company-level weapons team on a fully mechanized unit? Why not equip one APC in each platoon with ATGM, AA, a mortar, or an HMG? Is there a mobility advantage to having them as dismounts?

[@elongated_musket6353]

You should try our waffles, beer and chocolate :)