The Ghost-Maker: Batman Joker War Conclusion | Comics Explained

[@Joestar96]

I don't think the artist(s) gets enough credit here. The art and paneling in this series was *AMAZING*

[@marquiseemthembuu997]

"Im not going to kill. But I don't have to save you either." -Batman Begins

[@X-Warrior.1119]

Yes... 😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎

[@kyanperry8786]

I'm pretty sure seeing as he setup Ra'as Alghul's death it's still murder.

[@alexandersmith7061]

Kyan Perry Totally agree. That’s really my only problem with Batman Begins (other than Ra’s being white washed), which is the only one of the Nolan movies I like

[@GangstaStan010]

Well.. he didn't add the "Either" at the end of that line, but pretty much.

[@GangstaStan010]

@@alexandersmith7061 What about when Bruce killed those Ninja by blowing up their base?

[@EligosIV]

Beyond Omega Level: Florida Man

[@thetruth45678]

Florida Man is stupid OP.

[@blix1ms0ns]

Perfect!

[@shaolinshefgaming400]

The ability to go to jail for most things people wouldn't think you could go to jail for lol

[@eliandervalderen5849]

Beyond omega level Hal Jordan the only Green Lantern to kill a imortal with the weapon designed to be impossible to kill a imortal's

[@chiefwiggi]

Wait what? Hahahaha ya man

[@jaeusa160]

"Stay inside, all the movie theaters are death traps." So Gotham in 2020, gotcha.

[@evahyndman1472]

Fr this comic felt like a metaphor for the world rn

[@seannissen2509]

Especially big cities

[@jasonjohnson8418]

Nightwing meeting Punchline is awesome, like “ Hey I’m Nightwing, I haven’t been in the city for awhile” lol

[@thetruth45678]

Major Goku vibes.

[@jasonjohnson8418]

thedrew4you right lol

[@neonoah3353]

Batman: its all over now, and i learned from this experience and became a better batman. Also batman on a next story: *Tries to do things himself *Fails *Realizes he needs help *Calls the bat family *Saves the day *Learned and changed

[@alexandersmith7061]

He has Damian Wayne syndrome: do the same character arc ever run only to reset it when the new run starts

[@Lakefront_Khan]

That's why I don't read DC or Marvel comics.

[@Lakefront_Khan]

@Shawn Kuhn I like Rob.

[@Leadeshipcoach]

Good point! I agree.. When I see these storylines now... I just sigh.

[@mittensfastpaw]

@@alexandersmith7061 Ya, and I hate it. Each time he gets solid like with Supersons it all goes ptthhhbb again.

[@joshuamelton9148]

When Batman walked away from the joker it reminded me of the scene in Batman Begins when Batman defeated Ra Al Ghul. Batman said to him " I'm not going to kill you, but it doesn't mean that I have to save you either ". Batman escape from the train and left Ra's Al Ghul to his fate.

[@joshuamelton9148]

@Francisco Leyva Martin true. DC comics would be stupid to kill the joker

[@emeraldmorgan6644]

Joshua Melton but seriously they need to give Joker a break.

[@joshuamelton9148]

@@emeraldmorgan6644 i agree he is getting over exposed like the Batman who laughs. I am enjoying the 3 jokers story arc

[@firetarrasque4667]

For the record, though, That is definitely murder.

[@firetarrasque4667]

Yeah, Joker needs a break. We've had too much Joker, and he needs to go away for a little bit.

[@4thwallbreaking870]

These last moments between Batman and Joker remind me on the finale of Scott Snyder's Endgame where you see the Joker in all his insanity flinch... Basically Batman called his bluff. Joker was not ready to die for his game and he's not willing to play by his own rules.

[@oldmangeek3007]

Truth

[@陳潔明-w6y]

So, this is a rehash...

[@VCofdaG]

@@陳潔明-w6y Sadly... ...Always has been.

[@eliandervalderen5849]

Joker immunity only goes so far

[@GangstaStan010]

@Francisco Leyva Martin The one that blew up is. But another one was created at the End.

[@kjiyere7224]

I hope they do more with Clownhunter. I don't want him to become a Robin, nor something like Duke Thomas. I hope he doesn't get swept under the rug like Harper Row or Batwing.

[@MrTerrorzone2012]

Rob didn't show the end of the comic. There is an epilogue where Batman visits Clownhunter and tells him to stop, get help or he will stop him. It ends with Clownhunter saying he's not done and that it will continue in another issue.

[@kjiyere7224]

@@MrTerrorzone2012 I know

[@FracturedDMR]

They won't. It's like how marvel hyped up project H or Sleeper and have basically done fuckall with 'em. That's almost always how it goes.

[@Prathik1989]

Narrator: He will be.

[@kelvinphillips7140]

I don't know. They could have done something with the Architect, but NOPE! Had to be a Joker ploy.

[@MisterRorschach90]

I just pulled up to a drive thru for food and your channel was pulled up on my phone. The cashier said, “not to be nosey but was that comics explained?” I said yes and he was like “I love that channel!” Thought that would make your day rob.

[@D-OveRMinD]

"I wish I'd been Aquaman's butler instead." #SAVAGE

[@MrTerrorzone2012]

That was a really deep burn XD

[@thetruth45678]

Translation: I'd rather drown.

[@abarainosa]

Joker: you have to follow the rules of the game, Batman Batman: aight (leaves Joker to die) Joker: NOT LIKE THAT!!!

[@oldmangeek3007]

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha

[@Achieme]

" I wont kill you, but I don't have to save you.

[@igoroliveira6725]

@Francisco Leyva Martin batman yes lived 🙃

[@private679r.i.c.o4]

I could hear this in mark hamills voice 😂

[@gagemattingly6706]

“He calls in the bat family and everything’s over pretty fast” is my new favorite Rob quote

[@redhood7559]

HARLEY WTF YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO END THE CYCLE Everyone knows off screen death's don't work on villians

[@Chaser547]

Let's be real here Joker has survived being shot Point Blank in the head in the past so I was sure Joker would survive this war of his. If anything he'll be lying low for quite a while or be on the run from Clownhunter or this new Ghost-Maker.

[@redhood7559]

@@Chaser547 I don't really care what goes on in Gothem anymore sense I was exiled

[@alexblake5369]

Let's be real, the Joker is one of the most popular DC villains. There's no way they're going to kill him off any more than they're going to kill off Bruce which is why it's so frustrating for me that they even bother to humor this "choice" thing since it's all BULLSHIT. It's just a waste of time since we've heard this argument five different ways from Sunday already.

[@redhood7559]

@@alexblake5369 If I could die and come back then why not do the same for joker.

[@redhood7559]

@@nathanmallory8111 slade and cyborg pull that off to well

[@kjiyere7224]

I love how easily that people like Batman and Nightwing can beat Punchline. She's an inexperienced college fangirl of the Joker.

[@dionlackey798]

You're definitely read on that site. Two of the same comments

[@dionlackey798]

@Francisco Leyva Martin beat tf outta him. Joker seems to be the only one who can

[@firetarrasque4667]

She's literally the supervillain equivalent of a manager. She did a good job running the show when Gotham was in chaos, but she couldn't put up an actual, physical fight.

[@kjiyere7224]

@@firetarrasque4667 Nice bro

[@PhantomBones101]

@@firetarrasque4667 that is actually very well put.

[@playboimykey7269]

Theory : ghost maker saved the joker so that he can kill joker in front of Gotham’s people so he can grows a following that eventually makes the Gotham people choose him over Batman

[@Treerow]

That sounds 100% like Kingdom Come but with Batman instead of Superman.

[@aceofknaves61]

no joker escaped , it is shown in the epilogue in batman #100 but comics explained didn't show those epilogues for some reason

[@CoOlKyUbI96]

It would be cool if that happened. I thought the ending was a bit anti climatic considering that it constantly made attempts to allude to the Joker Wars really shaking things up. Although Batman didn't save Joker, he escaped. So it feels like the status quo is the same

[@Achieme]

Dc: wite that down write that down. No seriously that sounds like a good story worth reading.

[@mr.dccomics9018]

Kingdom Come.

[@thewistfulpigeon2747]

Batman:bExists. Marvel: Ah hah! Moon Knight! Moon Knight: Exists. DC: Ah hah! The Ghost-Maker!

[@calboyalexander8181]

moon knight: exist DC: asrazreil

[@shainips32]

@Ex Abdul About Zeiss you are talking

[@shainips32]

@Ex Abdul I remember him

[@thewistfulpigeon2747]

@The greatest fantastic4 Torch how is he not. Multiple identities, gadgets, a god they technically don't want to serve, a massive fortune.

[@sandordugalin8951]

10:45 Can we all at least agree that this series was AMAZINGLY drawn. Look at the emotion on Harley's face in her close up. The depth of it. Beautiful.

[@R_eagan]

12:28 Batman just walking away from Joker made me laugh so hard

[@duncan2by4]

I feel like this story was the perfect chance to put an "end" to the Joker. Nothing changes with this story. He'll be back and kill millions more, and Batman will do absolutely nothing about it. The only thing this conclusion told me, is that his run on Batman is going to end with a part 2 of this. However, if this story causes the increase of members in the Victim Syndicate I'm all down for THAT story.

[@duncan2by4]

@0ddMonk3y well then, don't kill him. Put him in a prison out in the middle of the desert or something. The prison from Dark Knight Rises would do, but to tell him how to defuse the bomb and leave him to his own devices is just stupid in my opinion.

[@duncan2by4]

@moz zo take killing off the table then. GONE. Did Batman make the right decision in letting him go? Because I feel he allowed a second take over to happen by not taking him away and imprisoning him somewhere other than Arkham.

[@duncan2by4]

@moz zo if Batman doesn't imprison him, who can? Will? Has he ever been in Black Gate? Could they hold him? I hope, out of this story, we get another story about the GCPD turning against Batman - alongside the Victim Syndicate.

[@duncan2by4]

@moz zo now that's an option. Joker going against someone who doesn't care about his life. And he tries to break her, but finds it's harder than going against Batman.

[@Lakefront_Khan]

I forgot about the Victim Syndicate.

[@TheTsugnawmi2010]

Hold on! So all these years of the Joker supposedly trying to push Batman to kill him were simply a lie? When faced with his own death by Batman's choice, Joker fled

[@Novids2watch]

I mean technically Harley would’ve killed him, so I guess it doesn’t really count

[@eliandervalderen5849]

And the Joker's last laugh when he thought he was dying of brain cancer he baited Nightwing to beating him to the point of death but of course Batman had to ruin it and resuscitate him

[@donkevinudaundo9836]

Batman hates people who challenge a staring contest into the abyss and blinks when the abyss stares back.

[@alexandersmith7061]

Yeah, this really ruins the character, in my eyes

[@ranierkeith4275]

I call it Growth. If the Joker's life isn't important enough to self save, that's the Joker's problem. Batman chooses his "kids" all the time .

[@kjiyere7224]

"I wish I'd been Aquaman's butler instead." -Alfred (2020)

[@thetruth45678]

Translation: I'd rather drown.

[@simonjoyfool7714]

Hey Rob, can you explain: 1)Trigon 2)Spider-Woman (Julia Carpenter) 3)The Mother of Existence 4)Kang the Conqueror 5)Mogo the Living Planet 6)Crimson Dynamo (Valetin Shatalov) 7)Bat-Mite 8)Blue Beetle(Jaime Reyes) 9)Solomon Grundy 10)Etrigan 11)Hellboy 12)The Young Avengers 13)Judge Death 14)The Tick 15)The Mask 16)Hawkman & Hawkgirl 17)the Mandarin 18)Steel 19)The Eradicator 20)Cyborg Superman 21)Reptil 22)the Doom Patrol 23)The Key(DC) 24)Spider-Woman (Jessica Drew) 25)Lobster Johnson 26)Resurrection Man What If scenarios: Darkseid gets a Cosmic Cube Darkseid invades Mega City One Lobo vs. Homelander & The Seven Ultra Man fights Homelander and The Seven Judge Death gets a Astral Regulator Judge Dredd meets Billy Butcher & The Boys Unicron battles Shuma-Gorath Mangog battles Doomsday All Might becomes Captain Universe Manchester Black & The Elite fight Homelander & The Seven Judge Death gets Black, Red, Orange & Yellow Lantern Rings Beyond Omega Level: Odin’s Doom(Ultimate Alliance Dr Doom) Chuck Norris

[@AbadonXXX]

When you think about it, anyone can be a ghost maker >>

[@adrianlujan4116]

True. All you need is a pot of water and heat

[@ansemvriku]

I hope Joker eventually come back but having severed his fascination with batman. I really would like to see a Joker with his one last shackle severed.

[@Dream0Asylum]

Well, one theory is that if the Joker ever actually killed Batman then he'd just stop being the Joker - there'd no longer be any point.

[@aceofknaves61]

@@Dream0Asylum not really , whole point of joker war was that he wanted to kill batman and he was going to , if it wasn't for that cheap shot by harley

[@aaronwilder2775]

Character Explained/Beyond Omega Level: Resurrection Man

[@210SAi]

💥

[@CorbCorbin]

Keep hope alive!

[@aaronwilder2775]

@@CorbCorbin I shall :)

[@kennethcusick9074]

Rob this dude is on every video cover the character lol

[@beachshorts25]

Oh hey guy...how you doing, where you been ?

[@WayLiko]

Batman: Trained in fear by elite deadly assassins Joker: was a alright comedian How is able to stab and beat up Batman?

[@christianvenson1563]

As a batman fan its amusing to listen to you constantly rip into the fandom. I never take it seriously but I know without the stories and characters we wouldn't have these amazing videos. Thanks Rob!

[@TheMadHatter007]

It’s absolutely hilarious

[@diamantemrobinson]

His misunderstanding of DC characters is always funny

[@christianvenson1563]

@@diamantemrobinson 100% agree, I never really the argument on Marvel's side but when I do its the same answers us DC fans give.

[@diamantemrobinson]

@@christianvenson1563 Yeah he's just more of a marvel fan/guy overall anyway. He constantly admits to liking and knowing more about Marvel and the channel used to be Marvel explained.

[@iamjulian2810]

It’s pretty annoying tbh. He tries to make it seem like Batman is the only hero who doesn’t kill or has faulty ideals. It’s honestly pathetic to see his bias towards marvel

[@MOBGANGALLGLORYBETOGOD]

Dude, I can’t believe you of all people couldn’t remember the name of Falcone, but recited the whole scene 😂

[@beffyburrito2055]

Man batman can't catch a break at all, always one thing after another. Just like a mid-term.

[@johnlawful2272]

Bane gave him a break

[@dionlackey798]

@@johnlawful2272 lmao

[@ronaldmullins8221]

Batman doesn't want a break. He'd be bored out of his mind as Bruce Wayne

[@dionlackey798]

@@ronaldmullins8221 ironic as it may be I think they need to release a comic that's just dedicated to batman being as Bruce Wayne and call it Bruce Wayne. I think it'll be interesting to see the life of Bruce Wayne whenever he isn't batman

[@beffyburrito2055]

@@dionlackey798 that would be a interesting comic, Showing the bat-family taking care of Gotham while Bruce go's on a vacation, telling multiple short stories

[@GeekyCinnamonRoll]

"Our teachers?" So hes another assassin?

[@PAINBODEE]

Im like 99% sure it’s just Thomas JR

[@alexandersmith7061]

Lord Of Frog's Congolese Uncle Probably. How much you wanna bet people are gonna forget about him, too?

[@PAINBODEE]

Aberama Gold I think it’s pretty weird how Joker dug him up before and nobody’s mentioned him but I’d bet on everything he fades away like everything else (Besides the court) from Snyder’s run

[@salamitommy9939]

Does everybody always just assume the only teachers Bruce had worth noting were in the League of Assassins? Plus we've seen something similar to that already with Nobody.

[@justinmcdonald2072]

@@salamitommy9939 They are the most revered, and a long time core foe. Bruce learned world wide from several who have been introduced a exile in India who taught him pain tolerance, Bronze Tiger's teachers, so many others who prefer to move on. I guess you can say someone who kept the same teachers in the broad scope of martial arts teachers to learn from have not all been covered let alone a person who was a student along side Bruce. Once the writers went across the multiverse in Batman metal to reverting Joker into triplets, Joker taking over Bruce's fortune again, even combining a Joker and Batman, to the movies DC is locked on repeat with this feud the pool is dry. A new character is necessary.

[@aceofknaves61]

Overall conclusion , Joker defeated Batman and if it wasn't for harley's surprise shot joker would have suceeded all the way . joker truly is best dc villain

[@SolitaireZeta]

Not to mention Harley saving Batman when he was drugged. If it wasn't for Harley, Joker would've won, period. Let's face it: Harley's the real hero of this story.

[@shadesmcf]

So batman's basically getting another rival that's gonna out-batman him for a time being. I think its batman's nature to immediately think of a quick solution. His real choice was whether to say it or not. I kinda wish batman comics would go back to a more detective like storytelling at some points of the story at least.

[@FFmaxxx]

Death can still be a slippery slope. Just like gambling everyone is diff and everyone has diff triggers. Some gamblers can walk away from the game and some are hooked and struggle to leave. We have many real life instances showing addiction can very easily over power seemingly strong people.

[@MarchallWhite12345]

What if Ra's al Ghul got the Ten Rings What if Dr. Fate became the Sorcerer Supreme What if Darkseid got the Cosmic Cube What if Ultron invaded the DC Universe What if Deadpool got the Mask What if Thanos fought the Justice League What if Darkseid fought The Avengers. What if Thanos got the Anti-Life Equation What if Shang-Chi was the Iron Fist What if Superman landed in Asguard What if the Batman Who Laughs invaded the Marvel Universe

[@aimanali8558]

Superman in asgard has been a dream comic/game of mine since God of War. Not marvel asgard, kratos asgard!

[@jortharob3406]

Bruh Batman who laughs invading the MARVEL Universe would be sick

[@lucy9196]

I've always wanted superboy prime with the omega effect

[@aimanali8558]

@@jortharob3406 For curiosity's sake, if you were to have only one point of intersection between Marvel and Dc universe, what would it be?

[@kingdon7795]

@@jortharob3406 BWL will get killed if he does that because that's not the DC universe.

[@MyUnjust]

Omg thank you so much. I really enjoy and appreciate all of your work

[@Cameron0214]

You know...I wouldn't mind a "Batman and Harley" arc. Hell I actually kinda want them to bring Gotham City Sirens back.

[@roguesquadron521]

I've always kind of wanted to see a relationship explored between them, now that she's at least somewhat "sane" at least and her own person, not Joker's plaything. I love that she's now part of the Bat-Family!

[@RomLoneWolf23]

This is why I'm sick and tired of the Joker as a villain. Because they kept upping the ante on his atrocities until letting him live is literally morally undefensible.

[@redhood7559]

He gonna start joker world war soon

[@joshinthesauce4636]

Joker Omniverse War is we’re being honest

[@anthonymarciano6050]

@@joshinthesauce4636 death metal?

[@ghostofdeath663]

@Francisco Leyva Martin he is meh

[@ghostofdeath663]

If he wasn't such a precious cash cow he would've been dead already. Joker is basically the John cena of villains.

[@henriquegaivao9929]

When joker said that batman never seen real suffer, is the most stupid thing i ever heard, the man had almost all of his loved ones mutilated or killed, had one of the most difficult trainings on the dc universe, doesnt have one minute that he isnt working, and gets attacked almost every day, its actually ironic, cause joker is played like he is the judge of suffering and like he knows everything, yet if we think about it, he rly isn't

[@m.y1152]

You explains everything so beautifully

[@zanin34122]

Beyond Omega Level: The Absence. (DC)

[@arunjohnson7558]

Can u tell me who is this??Does it have powers

[@shainips32]

He will be omnipotent or a joke

[@arunjohnson7558]

@@shainips32 can u please give a little information about the character "absence"

[@shainips32]

@@arunjohnson7558 ask Mr.perfect,it would be nice

[@zanin34122]

@@arunjohnson7558 Lol its just The opposite of the "The Presence" lol.

[@rogerengland2821]

Yo Rob Really digging the end credit soundtrack. I actually listened right through to the end for once. Keep the electronica going bro.🔥🤖🔥

[@JesseT63]

This event ending wasn't that hype at all. I bet Batman knew Joker would survive. All I take away from this event is that Harley and Batman relationship has improved. Clown hunter is either being set up as the next sidekick or antagonist hopefully antagonist

[@hotdogfarmer3451]

My guess they're going to try to make Jason Todd a goodie hero and clown hunter the new red hood or something

[@drewdahlen9660]

yeah, I was let down that they didnt explore The Clown Hunter...smh

[@ninjaneil902]

Please let Clown Hunter be Red Hood's Sidekick...

[@marcellXcatalyst]

Yeah pretty much, he literally knows he can use the batsuit to surivie the situation. It wasn't a real choice. It should had been a situation where Batman had to actively kill the Joker.

[@hotdogfarmer3451]

@@ninjaneil902 that would be awesome. Jason trying not to kill but taking in a murderous sidekick, that's a dope dynamic

[@Mjolvunheim]

Even if I knew no one else was around and there was no way of myself being recorded I would never say "Better watch out, I'm the Ghost-Maker!" aloud xD Great series and great coverage as usual!

[@colinstewart3531]

Stories about becoming a better batman or batman just being a kid who lost his parents or batman never truly knowing suffering; I've heard them so many times I'm sick of them. They are officially cliche now.

[@ronniehesson5074]

Absolutely my favorite channel

[@rollsreus3862]

Rob i remember you talking about how you didn't like the batman because he "always finds an inexplicable way to win". I think this a problematic interpretation in that batman HIMSELF does not always win out in such situations, but rather extraneous influences contribute to giving him a hope of survival. If batman lost, the villains of gotham WOULD BE ruthless enough to finish him off. Also, the deaths of damian (before batman revived him in apokalypse) and jason todd are blemishes on his record, further cementing his imperfections. Hopefully these historical details are sufficient to change your generalizable opinion.

[@WhiteZilla777]

Bro Batman has been getting some of the best event stories over the last several years. From Court of Owls to this. Like now is an amazing time to get back into Batman comics

[@johnf4085]

You can tell if a story is going to be good or mediocre in the first ten seconds of a vid. If Rob's not gushing over it, the story's got some problems, and this story definitely has some problems.

[@rollsreus3862]

so you are using a subjective heuristic to make an objectivist claim? Rob himself said that he always found batman's character problematic and such a perception can get in the way of his enjoyment.

[@johnf4085]

@@rollsreus3862 I don't understand what you're talking about. I do know that Rob funds Batman problematic, and I agree with him. I think his inbetween quips such as the "slippery slope" and "Ric Grayson is terrible" are on point.

[@diamantemrobinson]

The story was actually good though Rob looks down on Batman a lot

[@daniell5740]

@@diamantemrobinson no it wasn't it was pretty pointless

[@diamantemrobinson]

@@daniell5740 your opinion

[@MagusFyre]

11:48 is definitely an iconic moment between the two.

[@adamquenano8563]

Oracle is so underrated

[@LightingDax456]

She should just be Oracle rather than Batgirl. Like progress man

[@210SAi]

Kinda weird the way Batgirl just morphs into Oracle this issue

[@adamquenano8563]

O G Characters have switched for less.

[@210SAi]

adam quenano just wondering if it sticks after this issue

[@darcywideman3850]

Rob I started watching your videos about a year ago, i love your passion and enthusiasm for comics, I started reading them for myself because of you! Would love to see you finish last knight on earth someday!

[@lordschnitzel7961]

Beyond Omega Level: Empty Hand. (DC)

[@jcheck1107]

Empty Hand? Never heard of that character I’m going to have to check it out now

[@arunjohnson7558]

@@jcheck1107 he's may too much OP

[@shainips32]

Multiversity

[@daniellevy8935]

11:19 This is when *Batman* finally jumped across the buildings. Streaching away to freedom. For those who don't understand; I think the joke Joker told Batman in 'The Killing Joke' was really also reversible (and I don't think they meant it to be). Joker won't jump between the buldings off the asylum because he doesn't trust Batman, but, reversibly, he also told Batman that *he's* the one locked in an asylum. That *Batman's also* the one who's too afraid to make the leap. Two sides of the same coin.

[@geigercourtier]

“Batman always wins” to me is the affect of trying to write a normal human into comic book stories. Sure he doesn’t know the “dark” side of Gotham, but isn’t it typically written the Wayne’s were the best Gotham had to offer? For Bruce Wayne to become a murderer is far worse for Gotham than Batman doing what any rational person would expect a lunatic in costume to do, kill. Not to mention killing only gets easier, yeah Joker is a really twisted bad guy, but if he’s THAT bad, it’s the failing of an entire community not one guy. To have all these characters obsessed over one persons (albeit Batman) perception murder. He could easily fix the court system so it’s legal execution but that’s the point.

[@KavinCatastrophe]

Man your really going hard on the Batman no killing rule. I love it.

[@rollsreus3862]

not really. he brings up the same arguments used by people over the years and tries to dichotomize batman's framework using slipper slope fallacy when from a psychological framework or a neurobiological one, killing someone is a traumatic enough event to alter white matter tracts between your OPF and ACC, which are cortical regions involved in social perception and executive functioning. Rob only ever presents part of an argument in a lot of these videos without doing the intellectually rigorous work. Like ffs, just recite the stories. I don't want to hear half assed philosophy from a guy who bases his frameworks on Sandal's "Justice". He probably doesn't even know what the different types of utilitarianism are.

[@KavinCatastrophe]

It his Opinion on the Batman no killing rule. And he does bring up point from different sides of the arguments. He just doesn't go to into because he not a believer of it. I for one believe batman should not Kill the Joker but the Justice System should.

[@jarvisgarry3591]

Can someone explain where the hell duke Thomas was all this time???? the last i saw him was in dark metal and that was it . is there as least some explanation on why he was missing or something

[@thepriorstone4064]

I mean he showed up in a few panels in this last issue. But that doesn’t really change the fact that he isn’t doing anything

[@shangovi4167]

He's been in Batman and the Outsider series, a team that is composed of Black Lightning, Katana, Orphan/Cass and Duke. It's a pretty good run and I wouldn't mind Rob or other comic related channels going over it

[@jehovhieneheron9718]

And they want him to be the next Batman

[@shangovi4167]

@@jehovhieneheron9718 I think you're referring to Luke Fox who in my own opinion would be more similar to Terry McGinnis when it comes to his take on batman except he is already well trained and is smart on his feet

[@dugestyle78]

Rob: it’s not a slippery slope if you don’t let it be. Batman in multiple universe: I fell down the slippery slope.

[@m-sousa]

In all, I think this was a great story. But there is something bothering me: I don't get what happened to Catwoman in the middle of all of it. Anyone knows? I thought she was going to be fighting on batman's side, but no news from her since part 4.

[@210SAi]

Her story continued in the Catwomen title

[@m-sousa]

@@210SAi Thanks for the response. I just thought that she would have some interaction in this last part

[@210SAi]

Mário Sousa she’s left town by now see Catwoman #25

[@TheArtofKAS]

Awesome work Rob. The best thing about batman walking away is that it shows thst there is no real slippery slope for most of batman's villians. And I'm super excited to see the ghost maker as well. I read up on him and his character design is pretty neet. 👍🏾

[@KiDn0cuDi]

Beyond Omega level: The Grilled Cheese Sandwich. (AD)

[@akaBoG]

I like your breakdowns Rob, thanks!

[@Just_Some_Guy_with_a_Mustache]

*Joker get his face removed:* "Oh thank you! I've been meaning to get that off! AH HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!" *Loses 1 eye:* "WHOA, MAN! Too far! TOO FAR!"

[@themostbritishpersonalive868]

Yeah but him getting his face removed was his idea

[@jortharob3406]

Him removing his face is funny... Nothing is funny about getting shot in the eye...

[@themostbritishpersonalive868]

@Nikhil Pawar wrong

[@themostbritishpersonalive868]

@Nikhil Pawar you will fail

[@og.gamer9160]

I waited so long for this video. Like let me tell you something man.

[@lilbill15]

I’ve always thought that argument was bullshit like I’ll never stop killing if I kill the joker then maybe you shouldn’t be Batman if all it takes is one kill to turn you into a insane murderer

[@Gray963]

It's seems so obvious but a some people just can't get the Super Hero mentality for some reason. It's not about it being a slippery slope for the hero, it's about it being that for everyone else and showing a better way the 'world' could be. The reason the world sucks so much and the source of every conflict is because the naive view others as irredeemable, because bad guys think the world is bad, because so many think the end justifies the means, because we hate and don't aspire to a true utopia. Because we don't forgive. Because we punish instead of helping others be better. Maybe that won't ever happen in comics but that's because it's comics (and it has anyway) and "maybe" that can't even happen in real life, but that doesn't matter... because it's about making people aspire to be better. Think of how much hope and inspiration Superman creates. How much better of a place the world is because of his example alone. If he killed bad guys do you think that would still be the case? Superman's real super power is his morality and the example he is. Same with Captain America and Batman.

[@Treerow]

It's not really bullshit. It's called a slippery slope for a reason. Look at it this way...Joker killed thousands. He had to die. So what do you do with the guy who kills hundreds? What do you do with the guy that kills ten people? And the guy that killed one? What about that guy who decided he is going to kill someone? Or the guy who is thinking about doing it? How about that guy who has a real justifiable reason to kill someone? Where do you draw that line and then at what point do you become one of the guys mentioned above?

[@emperorjoker9240]

Exactly!! It’s such a stupid argument.

[@johnlawful2272]

@@Treerow light yagami was gonna start killing lazy people

[@emperorjoker9240]

Treerow that’s called having self-control and the ability to understand nuance. If a guy has killed thousands of people and And will continue to do so, i’m going to kill him. Just because I did that does not mean I’m gonna turn around and kill the dude who stole some gum out of a store and he might steal gum again.

[@mrjehuty2004]

Rob!!!! Keep the content coming!!!

[@sarge1408]

I didn't exactly read the comic, but hot damn do I love Rob covering this comic! This conclusion was one that I longed for, and Rob provides!

[@Misadoescomedy]

Awesome job, Rob!

[@MichaelJohnson-ss7qf]

I just had a thought. Why the heck is joker always able to go toe to toe with Batman in a hand to hand fight if he’s one of the most skilled fighters in the world? 🤔

[@fraughtmonster8]

I was just thinking about this

[@Gray963]

It's established that Joker has training but we don't know his backstory so it's left to the imagination. That and the power of crazy, strats, and improvisation.

[@diamantemrobinson]

Joker is a fighter lol

[@Leadeshipcoach]

Thank you!!! I was just thinking the exact same thing. No consistency the writing.

[@CorneliusBogfrollupFitzgerald]

Didn’t expect you do quote the entire speech from Batman begins word for word

[@Novids2watch]

I wish Joker’s bomb would’ve just had a “Bang” flag...

[@azamatfleming5427]

You skipped over one of the best lines in the issue. Zombie Alfred mocks Batman by saying “I wish I was Aquaman’s butler”

[@josiahthompson4594]

This is just a suggestion. I’m not one of those fans who demands stuff. Just a suggestion have you read chip zdarsky’s run on daredevil? It’s amazing in my opinion. If you do read maybe you could make a series following it like these ones. Again only a suggestion.

[@MrTerrorzone2012]

I would love to see this as well. And even asked Rob a few times but never got a response. I'm also not demanding so I'm not spamming it on every video and understand that he may not have seen that he's also a pretty busy guy

[@josiahthompson4594]

Roach yeah I get it. It’s such a great comic run so far. Hope it still keeps up. And this is actually my first time suggesting a comic run otherwise I would be saying that he did good in the video. (Which he was really great in the video as always.)

[@tonylok8311]

Very much agree. Lots of cool moments, and issue 20's fight is amazing.

[@meteor22]

Love the artwork from this artist.

[@troyseagraves5199]

Rob, I think there needs to be some revision to the way we are thinking about Batman's ethics. There are a few things to note: First, there is a distinction between killing and letting die (or at least this is a distinction the majority of moral philosophers accept). Suppose I am standing on the edge of a pond in which someone is drowning. We have two scenarios: (a) I stand and watch this person drown, (b) I swim out to them and hold their head underwater until they drown. In (a) I have merely let them die but in (b) I have killed them. Most people have the intuition that scenario (a) is worse than (b). So, there seems to be a conceptual distinction between killing and letting die. Regarding Batman, I think it is pretty clear that Batman does draw this distinction. I found it unobjectionable that Batman walked away from Joker since he wasn't killing Joker. Batman was simply letting Joker die. Second, one way to cash out one problem (of many) that ethical theories are trying to solve is that we have the following set of conflicting intuitions: (i) There are some actions that are beyond the pale of humanity. That is, there are some things that we simply cannot bring ourselves to perform. (ii) There are some evils that, given the choice, no decent person would allow. These conflict in classic cases. Pick whatever you want for the content of (i) and (ii). Suppose that in order to prevent the evil in (ii), you need to perform the action in (i). These are difficult decisions and, for the sake of brevity, I won't delve into different answers from ethical theory. One thing that does seems clear, however, is Batman's stance. Batman maintains that, for (i), killing is beyond the pale and he cannot bring himself to do it (notice that this is different from letting die). The Joker is a fairly good stand-in for whatever we take to be the evil in (ii). So, I don't think it is fair to criticize Batman as if the obvious answer is to kill Joker. The writers are simply drawing on this (very real) problem in ethics; a problem everyone has. We don't need the slippery-slope argument you mentioned to defend Batman. We just need an ethics that doesn't rely on only the intuition in (ii). Since most ethical theories accept some form of (i), Batman seems to be in good hands. [Of course, we can disagree with Batman that killing should be an action that is beyond the pale of humanity. That detail is still debatable]

[@Consquiggliere]

I live for the “AAAAND YEAHHH” in the intro 😂

[@greyscott5908]

Bruce's repeated abstaining from ever killing the Joker throughout the years is the main reason I can't really call myself a Batman fan. As much as I love the character, and as much as I understand how that character flaw can make for great stories involving the Joker, it just makes Bruce seem like an enabler and a half measure. I can't really respect someone who'd repeatedly let a mass murderer continue breathing in the city they swore to protect. He even saves the Joker many times from situations he could've just let play out.

[@jrob4795]

Why haven't the GCPD killed him? Judging by how corrupt they always tend to be, I'm sure a few of them have shot a innocent person in the back a time or two....so why haven't they killed the Joker "by accident"? Or what about the Government? Surely after Joker has killed his millionth person he'd become a candidate for the death penalty somewhere, right? Batman catches the criminals so they face justice, he's not a executioner. Sounds like your problem is with Gotham city authorities, and DC comics executives, and not Batman.

[@Denneska]

@@jrob4795 Batman is a vigilante--he's free to act as wants...

[@willchalloner6643]

I would be fine with him sparing the joker as a no kill rule but only if the joker was genuinely contained , if he got out of prison every 20 years then fine but the man busts out of arkham the second he enters it

[@jrob4795]

@@Denneska And he chooses not to kill...but GCPD litteraly have a license to do so...the Government has a license to do so...why don't we scrutinize them?

[@Gray963]

It's seems so obvious but a some people just can't get the Super Hero mentality for some reason. It's not about it being a slippery slope for the hero, it's about it being that for everyone else and showing a better way the 'world' could be. The reason the world sucks so much and the source of every conflict is because the naive view others as irredeemable, because bad guys think the world is bad, because so many think the end justifies the means, because we hate and don't aspire to a true utopia. Because we don't forgive. Because we punish instead of helping others be better. Maybe that won't ever happen in comics but that's because it's comics (and it has anyway) and "maybe" that can't even happen in real life, but that doesn't matter... because it's about making people aspire to be better. Think of how much hope and inspiration Superman creates. How much better of a place the world is because of his example alone. If he killed bad guys do you think that would still be the case? Superman's real super power is his morality and the example he is. Same with Captain America and Batman.

[@Sket6984]

My favourite thing to come out of this was clown killer. In the back ground of every city shot just going about his life. I really hope he comes back but not as a member of the bat family.

[@clinteastwood75]

This was a sorry ending for this story.

[@Leadeshipcoach]

Yep!

[@charlescc58]

Let's shove harley in it thats why lol

[@chinesemassproduction]

tell me why

[@nathannix3217]

CMP It was predictable, boring and there were no consequences for anyone’s actions.

[@trigunfox2325]

The whole story shouldn't have been written lol

[@jamcalx]

It's like the Robot Chicken sketch where Batman testified in court and Joker got put on death row in Supermax prison.

[@endless3cho]

... Bruce Wayne doesn't know suffering? Being wealthy doesn't protect you from suffering. Dude has gone through so much suffering.

[@oldmangeek3007]

Good point

[@UnexpectedWonder]

Exactly!

[@endless3cho]

@SageGabs why is what I said wrong? I never said anything about his suffering compared to the ppl in Gotham. There is far more suffering than just starvation and poverty.

[@endless3cho]

@shogun harlem where did I say it was the same? I'm literally just talking about how there is suffering beyond being poor and hungry. No amount of money will or can stop you from experiencing suffering of some sort.

[@BigBadWolframio]

It's not that he doesn't know suffering. Is that he doesn't get the suffering from Gotham's people because he's effectively an outsider. It's hard to actually help someone when you don't understand their problem to begin with. Bruce believed that what the city needed was someone to scare the "bad boys" away. He hasn't succeeded, because that's not what the city needs to actually get rid of criminality. I'm not saying that he hasn't helped anyone, it's not that, is that the solution he's offering is not what's needed to "save the city".

[@MrBu22]

shouldve covered the FULL epilogue to I think that had some of the best moments

[@xavierb4403]

After everything, killing Gotham's citizens using Bruce Wayne's money, violating Alfred's corpse to shove in batman face. The fact that joker gets away and batman had to be saved in the end is the reason I dislike DC and Marvel comics lately. What a horrible ending. Independent comics are the only comics I enjoy these days. Really tired of these writers having villains commit the most evil acts and always getting away. I would love to see Rob do some comics out side of marvel and dc, anyone else? My number one choice would be buffy season 8 thru 12 (which i think is the end) and angel after the fall!

[@xavierb4403]

@moz zo Jesus christ dude you okay? Need a hug? What are you talking about privilege? You don't know anything about me. 1st I do not like trump either but this is NOT the place for politics. No one comes to this channel for that. 2nd real life being unfair is no excuse for poor story telling in comics, that's a absolutely stupid defense of it. 3rd if random, innocent comments of people expressing their own opinions on youtube offend you this much, just know that no one cares.

[@diamantemrobinson]

@moz zo Yeah the bad guys win in real life

[@bobdylan1968]

He didn't get away.

[@ExeErdna]

All DC had to do was commit to their own canon they could have uplifted Punchline to being WAY better than The Joker. Yet nope she gets dropped, Joker saves himself and everything returns to 0 instead going over to 101

[@MCR123321]

@14:26.... The Batman who listens? Lol. C'mon Rob.

[@aadenturnbull1332]

What happened to Clownhunter

[@aadenturnbull1332]

@Shawn Kuhn Oh ok

[@aadenturnbull1332]

@Shawn Kuhn So I guess clownhunter isn't going to be part of the batfamily lol

[@aadenturnbull1332]

@Shawn Kuhn Ok

[@lazynerd3211]

I love the fact it was nightwing that neutralizes punchline; not just neutralized but how fast he did it.

[@ThatStevenLouis]

I still wanna know... *aHEM!* WHICH JOKER IS THIS!?!? This was my favorite 🃏

[@Bluesit32]

The fourth Joker.

[@ThatStevenLouis]

@@Bluesit32 dis tew much 😩

[@JohnDoe97637]

The art in this story is amazing.

[@blakewisniewski3750]

And the cycle continues... predictable ending. 😴

[@ThoughtsOfTheHumanMind]

With the entire bat family, Batman could’ve been putting his adoptive kids in places of power to handle some of the corruption. Heck Richard Grayson could’ve been the mayor.

[@ThoughtsOfTheHumanMind]

Let Cassandra Cain and Jason Todd infiltrate the underworld and it take over. Tim Drake could be the head of the police with Jim under him and Barbara could run the company with Luke or Lucius. That way he can spend more time being a father to Damien and Batwoman could do something with the military and help with the outsiders.

[@ThoughtsOfTheHumanMind]

Duke Thomas could start a news channel and outreach program funded by Bruce Wayne, with Clay face be an news anchor or something.

[@Loseirdo]

I know there's no point saying this now, but Batman choosing to save Harley is *not* the same as Batman choosing to kill Joker. Saving Harley's life is a good action that has the unintended consequence of Joker dying. This falls perfectly in-line with the principle of Double Effect, and there's nothing morally ambiguous about it.

[@alexandersmith7061]

I liked that this is what Batman chose. I just wish Joker didn’t save himself or he found another way to escape Edit: by this, I mean that somebody saves him, like punchline, and maybe Joker can yell at her to tell her not to but she does it anyway

[@enishi4ty5]

well in the theory of saving the lives on train track A or train track B, i think psychologically, for batman it doesnt matter who or how many are on either track, he wont manually make a selection that results in a death. saving harley is = to saving joker and he picked saving harley although he knew joker could save himself. had joker NOT had the tools to do it, then it would have been morally ambiguous, or if the bomb had gone off and no discernible remains left, batman would possibly be guilt ridden idk lol

[@MrOvadose101]

Joker got punked,lol. Loved the video Rob.

[@smaug6015]

I don't care what anybody says , Harley Quinn is the Mvp

[@MforMovesets]

Honestly, this is my absolute highlight of DC right now. I rather read this loveletter to Batman, than confusing loveletters to everything at once. Its fun, its enjoyable, its not grimdark, the art is fantastic. The Joker Batman suit looks great, way better than the Batman who Laughs imo because I never got used to his visor.

[@berniet1215]

Rob I’m normally with ya but not with the slippery slope argument. Joker is number one killer in Gotham and as a result everyone is begging batman to kill him then one day he lets the pressure gets to him and kills him. Their is gonna be power vacuum, someone else is going to become the number one villain, doesn’t matter if she not as bad joker as long as he is the villain currently causing the most damage then the joker situation is going to repeat with everyone begging for him to kill and if u can bet convinced to do it once then u can get convicted to do it again and the cycle repeats

[@ashmoleproductions5407]

Except just about no one can be as bad as joker who has killed millions. Presumably whoever replaces him will be much more easily locked up and kept from harming others. This "Power Vaccuum" is just as fallacious as the slippery slope. The mob does not turn people into insane toxic clowns or burn down the city and they are more prone to shooting each other then the people.

[@JimmyJams91]

As a Batman fan I can't defend Batman's constant saving of the Joker. I feel like the only reason Batman hasn't offed Joker yet is not because of the "slippery slope" argument but because in a sick, twisted sort of way Batman and Joker are soul mates. They're obsessed with each other and the only reason they haven't killed each other yet is because they would be lost without one another.

[@Gray963]

Man... Rob just cannot get his head around the philosophy of principles and being the better man... You do that for a reason, not just "to pat yourself on the back" as he's said before. Same way he doesn't get Captain America. It's seems so obvious but a some people just can't get the Super Hero mentality for some reason. It's not about it being a slippery slope for the hero, it's about it being that for everyone else and showing a better way the 'world' could be. The reason the world sucks so much and the source of every conflict is because the naive view others as irredeemable, because bad guys think the world is bad, because so many think the end justifies the means, because we hate and don't aspire to a true utopia. Because we don't forgive. Because we punish instead of helping others be better. Maybe that won't ever happen in comics but that's because it's comics (and it has anyway) and "maybe" that can't even happen in real life, but that doesn't matter... because it's about making people aspire to be better. Think of how much hope and inspiration Superman creates. How much better of a place the world is because of his example alone. If he killed bad guys do you think that would still be the case? Superman's real super power is his morality and the example he is. Same with Captain America and Batman.

[@Z3R0RES]

He likes to trash about deontological ethics by pointing out their weaknesses and completely ignoring the problems that come with consequentialism. Every single time he talks about Superman, Captain America, Batman...

[@ashmoleproductions5407]

I will re-iterate this from adifferent comment, that argument is complete bullshit and has no basis in reality and can only be had by someone whos morality is based on comics. And who has never experienced real hardship in their lives. Real life does not work like that, you dont just become an evil murderer because you put down evil murderers. There is a massive difference between killing a couple people in a crime of passion or as a consequence of dealings and someone on a killing spree. But there is one massive difference people like you never take into account, these comic book villains are not able to be kept confined by a prison. These are superpowered maniacs who have all murdered dozens if not hundreds and have no intention of stopping and with no way of stopping beyond a temporary reprieve. The Joker has killed millions and has no intention of stopping. Innocent lives are not "unfortunate casualties" they are people whose lives you have bargained away to preserve the lives of monsters and your own sensibilities. If any of these maniacs existed in reality you would not be saying any of this you would be baying for blood rightfully. There is no Justice here, there can be no justice here. If "being better" is preserving the life of a mass murderer over thousands or even one innocent life count me out.

[@Z3R0RES]

Ashmole Productions Is the slippery slope argument in this context weak? Yes, it is. Is it wrong to not kill the Joker? It depends on your argumentation and your moral orientation. If you are a consequentialist (Utilitarianism is a prominent concept) you will try to maximize happiness. In this case you would consider the pain and happiness of keeping the Joker alive, basically Joker vs. eveyone else. If his death will bring more happiness, you will kill him. The problem with this moral concept is that, there are no immoral acts. You can rape, murder,... as long it will bring more happiness then not doing it. In addition, life itself has no intrinsic value, which means the only thing that stops you from killing everyone else is the greater pain you will cause. In contrast to this concept we have the deontological ethics (kantianism is the most prominent ). This moral orientation is different, since it has „maxim“/„principles“. Kant designed the kategorial imperative to check, if a maxim is wrong or bad. The „kategorial imperative“ has several formulations, but the two most important are „Act in such a way that you treat humanity [...] never merely as a means to an end“ and „Act only according to that maxim whereby you can at the same time will that it should become a universal law.“ The problem that we have here is that two maxim collide, (a) Help humanity and (b) don‘t kill (murder is an intrinsic bad act). (Those two maxim are presented by Kant, I won’t explain this here, since it will be to long). So basically if you are a kantianism, you will try to help everyone and respect everyone’s life&autonomy, but you have problems if maxim collide. A problem that doesn’t appear if you are a utilitarian, but those have problems with other stuff, like I mentioned previously. So, yes, not killing Joker is a valid position you can take.

[@Gray963]

@@Z3R0RES Well said. I actually substantially lean to the side of the killing the Joker, at least in a practical sense. But as I tried to state: it's not about the imminent morality or immediate consequences at all in my eyes. It's about the greater repercussions of what Super Heroes stand for and the idealism they represent and inspire. Practicality and convenience is the enemy of morality and the morality is the primary causation and requirement to the quality of civilization.

[@Gray963]

​@@ashmoleproductions5407 It's pretty obvious you didn't read my comment past the first lines... or at most skimmed it and projected some inaccurate association over it. But your bias supports my point and clearly demonstrates several related ones. "that argument is complete bullshit and has no basis in reality and can only be had by someone whos morality is based on comics. And who has never experienced real hardship in their lives." Now no offense intended but calling your opening statement anything other then extremely presumptuous, arrogant, ignorant, naive, self absorbed, self righteous, and biased would be an outright lie. I feel that needs to be pointed out. For one... hundreds of millions of people have that philosophy. Some places in the world even base their legal system on it such as Norway and it's caused the lowest crime rate, smallest incarceration rate, smallest repeat offender rate, and greatest rehabilitation rates in the world by a dramatic margin. Secondly... Buddy, I'm not playing the "whose suffered more" game, but I've had more hardship then most people in the western world. I've had a dozen things happen to me that are recorded happening to only a handful of people, many that people have had movies made over, and nearly every bad thing you can imagine. I've lived on the streets for most of my life and been near destitute for the rest. I've seen a lot of people die. I've lost all of my loved ones to drugs, murder, police brutality, dementia, mental illness, suicide, disease or cult-like extremism. So you can take my word for it or not, but I know hardship. Third... I was explicitly talking mostly about comics, because the rules are different there as you said so yourself... so judging them by reality doesn't make sense. If you are then you have treat it like reality and can't assume Joker will always get out and is impossible to change. Even in comics there have been stories like 'White Knight' where he did. Lastly... You are letting your anger, personal grudges and pettiness control you. As is the problem with mentalities like yours you are demonizing people and forgetting that they are just people. There is no material force of evil controlling them. They are no more different to you then anyone is and just as capable of change. I understand what it's like to be gravely wronged, the ultimatum you perceive between forgiveness and help, how easy it is to hate and how hard it is to stop... but it's more damaging to you and everyone else then it is the subject of the hate. Hate and revenge and punishment are primitive urges, driven from chemical bias and animalistic instinct and not logic. I can't teach you true empathy and inner-peace or explain it... that would take a lifetime or at least dozens of lessons to even grasp. But once you have it and learn to let go and view things logically and altruistically then you will understand.

[@yahtoray3]

FALCONI. That's the mob boss who you were thinking of.

[@thedukeofchutney468]

14:38 great point. I still don’t get anti gun people.

[@Gray963]

It's simply that the proof sides with guns causing more problems and violence then they solve, as every nation who bans them (basically the entire world) have literally hundreds of times less violence and crime then the places that allow them. Also, simply put, the more we don't support guns the less people there will be with a gun in your face. Besides, having a gun rarely helps when you are attacked by a gun.

[@psboy341]

Funny thing about Joker War is that Justice League #54 kind of tells you that the war takes place before the Totality arc and Death Metal, if anyone didn't know.