The Gohan Death Fallacy - Dragon Ball Dissection: The Majin Boo Arc Part 16!

[@anonymone453]

In an alternate timeline where DBZA continued, Yamcha would be the only character who realized Gohan couldn't possibly be dead, but everybody would ignore him.

[@trainmaster997]

@Jesse Mathis they just got burned out. They did say they would do it but they just. Realized they couldn’t. Because burnout does that to you.

[@hatefulgaming1800]

@Jesse Mathis they’ll do the Buu arc one day

[@Xeno574]

@Jesse Mathis They didn't demand money, they also didn't say that they will 100% do Part 4 and NOT double down on that. Not their fault they burnt out. They even cancelled the Bojack Movie because they just couldn't make a script they were satisfied with.

[@ItsNumber84]

@Jesse Mathis Good thing Patreon donations are per video, eh?

[@neogenesis7706]

Patreon is horrible. I hate that fusion does it too.

[@DBZMacky]

I personally never noticed this mess as a kid. I think at the time most of us were just busy being hyped about "Super Saiyan 3" and "Fusion" and never really thought about the plot inconsistencies.

[@MikeySavage21]

Same here! And the anime adaptation didn't fix the inconsistency either

[@YossarianVanDriver]

And to be fair, as a weekly martial arts manga for teenagers, I think "too caught up in the excitement to think about the plot too hard" is exactly the reaction it's going for.

[@Mysticgamer]

I didn't notice the lore screw ups when I was younger but, I hated it when dbz wasted time for no good reason. Why introduce Super Saiyan 3 and then say it's too powerful to use but then have a six and seven year do it with a little practice? Why have goten and trunks get super saiyan 3 if they're just going to screw around until they lose it and get captured? Why setup Gohan getting Mystic powers if he was just going to get pimp smacked and captured too. Why did they introduce fusion say it's permanent and two minutes later say nevermind being eaten by the ancient bubble gum monster canceled it out.

[@YossarianVanDriver]

@@Mysticgamer I mean, the answer to all of that is that DB's later arcs tend to devolve into games of powerup tennis and this one didn't handle it very gracefully.

[@leonardofarias8843]

@@Mysticgamer Weren't both Goten and Trunks trying at the same time

[@violeta932]

Not only do they assume Gohan is dead, they act like he's NEVER coming back. Later in the arc, before Goku returns to the afterlife, he says to Piccolo how Gohan will miss him, and Piccolo's like "Yeah, say hi to him from me" or something. Even if Gohan had been dead (or died after that wish was made), it was only his first death, and they never mention that they can bring him back later, they just act like it's permanent - this was always even more confusing to me.

[@karlrudd8914]

"Gohan's dead" "Oh my God how do you know?!" "We can't sense him... come to think about it we can't sense OH MY GOD TENSHINHAN IS DEAD!"

[@talesfromthenuzlocke1619]

If not sensing them means they are dead, I guess the whole cast has died way more than I thought. Given the amount of times lowering your power level has happened

[@pn2294]

That would actually make sense

[@karlrudd8914]

@@talesfromthenuzlocke1619 I bet funeral parlors would just block their number

[@dwainfrett5385]

Don't forget Piccolo heard Vegeta say Gohan was dead. So they were going off of what was said.

[@karlrudd8914]

@@dwainfrett5385 True

[@DarthMeteos]

I think another factor in not noticing the inconsistency is that the wish is treated as an absolute afterthought. No consequences for it are ever brought. We never even get a shot of people at the wrecked tournament grounds returning to life. It's almost completely pointless.

[@censoredterminalautism4073]

That wish doesn't even make sense because the villains are still around to kill people. And looking back on the arc, every single one of those people died again anyway. Completely pointless!

[@azureangel8217]

@@censoredterminalautism4073 oh God you're right😭

[@asherzerbib3461]

I never even noticed it until it was brought up here. The more you know...

[@EmeralBookwise]

@@censoredterminalautism4073: Well, there is one point to the wish, it brought Kibito back to life. Not that anyone making the wish knew he was dead in the first place, and not like he ever needed to be dead to begin with since Dabura could have just turned him to stone instead. Heck, even if he had stayed dead it wouldn't have needed to change the story all that much as his healing and teleportation powers could just have easily been abilities Supreme Kai possessed as well. Granted, without Kibito there'd be no one to play the role of sceptic in regards to Supreme Kai's plan of training Gohan... well, that is except for the fact that if need be a second retainer could have been introduced.

[@censoredterminalautism4073]

@@EmeralBookwise Actually, yes, so it's not pointless. Not that anyone else would know that it wasn't pointless, so it still doesn't make sense from their perspective, especially considering that they somehow thought that it wouldn't bring Gohan back. Man, this story is a giant mess.

[@xShinigamiRyukuux]

Reading this as a kid, I couldn't really think of why, but I always did think it was frustrating just how adamant the Dragon Team was that Gohan was definitely, without a shadow of a doubt, dead.

[@TheHylden]

Yeah, just check with King Kai and King Yemma at the check-in station to make sure, at least.

[@spartanq7781]

@@TheHylden In fact Goku does that after he passes on. He could have done it before then and reported back to everyone.

[@KittSpiken]

You didn't realize it, but your brain did.

[@OtakuRefusado]

Toriyama always with the HILARIOUS joke of character underestimating another character, just so the second character can effortsly do/learn the thing, while scaring everyone else by how powerful he is.

[@MCWaxC]

It gets funnier every time, especially when it’s played completely straight with no deviations from the formula.

[@Jose-se9pu]

The biggest problem of the Boo saga was that it kept repeating the same jokes, fights, and tropes from the last 10 years (but worse).

[@spinceiling7442]

@@Jose-se9pu Don't really agree with the jokes being worse. I enjoy the humor a lot more than most previous arcs

[@dragonballfan9700]

@@Jose-se9pu the humour got better in the buu saga

[@theradionicrevival8068]

Doubt anyone here has watched fairly odd parents, are apart of the cartoon/western animation community or watch the youtuber alpha jay but he essentially coined the term name for that joke Is just called “and then the opposite happens” In the later seasons of odd parents that’s basically its only main joke of constantly saying blank won’t happen and then subverting that to where it does. It happens in all media at least a little but its funny to think about how often both DB and FOP use it. Its practically a natural evolution to the “at least it can get any worse and then cuts to flash of rain and thunder*”

[@someoneelse2384]

The confusion about Gohan's death always infuriated me for these exact reasons. It's arguably the worst written piece in the entire series, inclusive of DBS nonsense. And you're right, no one talks about it!

[@slifer875]

nah, the worst one its cell reveleaing his compelling mistery to picoloo for no reason at all, instead of waiting for trunks and krilling to find out by themselves when they go to gero secret lab.

[@pn2294]

I never knew it existed.

[@Jose-se9pu]

12 years old me reading the manga: "stop saying Gohan is dead, he isnt, and if he were, he never died before, just wish him back...what are you guys, stupid!?"

[@KingOfDarknessAndEvil]

​@slifer875 At least that's just a bad writing decision, it's kinda understandable for cell to explain since he doesn't think piccolo will survive, it's weird and a bad decision, but this is a number of reasonably smart characters who understand the rules of the universe all grouping up to be fucking morons for no reason

[@UmbreonMessiah]

The Buu Arc is probably one of the greatest examples of the faults in Japan's weekly manga industry. It is clear that Toriyama is done with all of this by this point, but he *can't stop* because he'll lose everything if he does. He's so desperate to keep up with the schedule that he has to slap things together even quicker than he normally does...and the work suffers for it.

[@Mepphy99]

More like he still didn't want to end Heck even now He returns on Dragon ball for episode and draft

[@talesfromthenuzlocke1619]

100% accurate. And just like how DB invented a lot of Shounen tropes and formulas for better and worse, Toriyama’s burnout over the exhaustive conditions of the weekly manga industry would later inspire creators like Kishimoto, Kubo, and Togashi to do the same

[@theradionicrevival8068]

Coincidentally, it reminds me of that stuff TFS said on as to why they won’t be finishing abridged; Essentially, their work ethic has a high bar that they tried to top and meet at every episode. This subconsciously creates a bar of standards in the majority of the viewers minds. So even if they weren’t feeling it and weren’t at the top of their game, they COULD’VE continued with DBZA regardless. both of yours wouldn’t like it. Once you know what someone produces when they’re at their best, and they do it consistently; it becomes utterly TRANSPARENT when you’re half-assing it. And when creating shit is literally your job and people come to you for your quality and consistency? People will speak with their wallets and you’ll start losing much more. What would the result be like? Well- The regular, canon Buu saga. Just misorganized mess with some good ideas littered throughout that brings the whole series down a peg because of it. Its just what happens when you bite off more than you can chew. At least in TFS’ case, if abridged ever comes back, youll know immediately that it was decision the team made after thinking about it long and hard. And not just following in the footsteps of toriyama and doing it out of obligation. This isn’t TFS dickriding either, I genuinely feel sorry for toriyama and the way things turned out for him. I was just using TFS cause they had a coincidental parallel to an issue that actual series faced too.

[@theradionicrevival8068]

@@talesfromthenuzlocke1619 I don’t quite think “inspire” is the right choice. Its worded as if these guys chose to fuck up their health and schedule 100% on their own accord.

[@UmbreonMessiah]

@@theradionicrevival8068 Yes and no. The industry even today chews up artists and spits out content, much like KZbin. While you can absolutely choose to not be a part of it, unless you're a monolithic success like Hunter x Hunter, doing so is a death sentence.

[@HENRYN08]

This part of the arc is for me where Toriyama's storytelling REALLY starts to decline. I remember Toriyama stating in a interview that he had grown tired of fighting manga when he was writing the Majin Boo arc, and somes the sign of him getting burned out really show with how his storytelling become more haphazard, inconsistent and sloppy.

[@PlanetZoidstar]

I think another part of the problem is Toriyama had more creative freedom with the Buu arc compared to the Cell arc. So he wasn't being reined in as much, an editor would have likely caught alot of these storytelling issues and helped prevent them from getting this out of hand.

[@PkmnTrainerEmerald]

Yup you could tell he was having more fun drawing the saiyaman portion as you could see both Dr.Slump and early Dragon ball elements return after a very long time that unfortunately for him didn't last long in him drawing it that now for the more series stuff he was starting to mess up and just wait till we get to the majin buu vs ss3 goku fight as I'm sure Lance will bring up the mess there.

[@XanderVJ]

Honestly, you can easily point Toriyama's burn out as the origin of everything wrong in this arc. Not only in his storytelling, but in his art too. Even as I kid I could feel Toriyama's tiredness in his blocky, kind of ugly art in this arc.

[@Dexuz]

@@XanderVJ And despite all of that, he still managed to give his beloved manga a fitting finale; as much as people love to ditch and hate the ending of Dragon Ball, it is conclusive and logical, closing Goku's story in the only feasible way for it to end.

[@JackOfen]

@@Dexuz And Buu is probably the most layered villain in Dragon Ball since, maybe, Vegeta.

[@spritvio639]

I can't wait for Lance to get to the 2nd half of the Buu Saga where everyone and their dads just come in and knock buu around and then just get cocky and get absorbed, even though they like just saw the other person do that.

[@ALocalClown]

To be fair *one* of those characters did it on purpose. One of them though... yeesh.

[@spritvio639]

@@ALocalClown True but it really wasn't too much better looking back. I mean they had no idea if thier plan would even work, or if they could do most of the things they ended up doing.

[@ALocalClown]

@@spritvio639 It's also just weird magic stuff. The idea of the barrier is insanely odd conceptually. Of all the plans you could possibly make.

[@spritvio639]

@@ALocalClown And in the end it almost costed them since they almost lost to Kid Buu. (And.....some other bad decisions but whatever)

[@marxist-leninist-protagonist]

@@ALocalClown And why the fuck did he LOWER the barrier?

[@prowrestlingcountdown208]

I’d rather Popo just come out and say “the room is broken” or under reconstruction from the last time Vegeta used it or something. Instead of Goku pretending to be thoughtful of worse threats in the future

[@Freefall347]

That... would actually have worked really well. Honestly, I feel like a lot of the dumber things in Dragon Ball could have been solved with a solid 15 minutes of thinking from Toriyama.

[@danielquinlan2457]

@@Freefall347 Torishima would've never abided this shit.

[@MaxIronsThird]

Maybe just say, he doesn't have much food

[@kmgyening]

Speaking of Goku pretending to be thoughtful of the future, he never realizes during this arc (or at all really) that he was wrong about why he believed he should stay dead and away from Earth. His reasoning was that he would attract bad guys to Earth and that would cause it to be in danger. But he never realizes that Babidi and all of his subjects (including Buu) did not come to Earth because of Goku, and were already there with their own plans before Goku even showed up. Even when Babidi sent henchmen to the tournament to gather energy for Buu's revival, they were only looking for strong fighters with lots of energy. They weren't specifically looking for Goku and co., and didn't even know who any of them were. So really, in-universe, Babidi and his subjects would have threatened the Earth anyway, whether Goku was there or not. That would logically mean that Goku has no reason to stay dead anymore (outside of his own self-interest), yet he now insists in this arc that protecting the Earth should be left to the next generation. Even if the part about leaving it to the next generation were true, that doesn't mean that Goku need stay dead while that happens. Goku just implies a False Dichotomy, and no one questions him on it. It's just weird.

[@spartanq7781]

@@kmgyening Hell as this arc plays out it further proves the opposite that the Earth needs Goku. He insists the next generation can do it but in the next part he states he could have defeated Boo himself. So why all the rubber necking? Not only that but the way they do defeat Boo could be done at this point in the story. Everyone is still alive and because of Babadi giving everyone live video feed no one would refuse Goku's plea for help. Why it takes so long to think of using the invincible Genki Dama is baffling to me. Or why Vegeta of all people is the one who comes up with it.

[@kaiserpinguin1182]

Was this ever explored: Who's forcing Goku to return to the Afterlife? If he refused to go with Uranai Baba, what would be the consequence? He said earlier, there would be no one in the Afterlife who could equal him. Even Enma complains about the increase in deaths laters due to Boo (they probably don't get paid per soul). It would have been in his interest to keep Goku on Earth, it they asked Kaio to make such an arrangement with Enma. Vegeta could go back to Earth simply on the merit of him being useful there. They could have even used the last wish to ressurrect Goku. He only stayed dead after Cell because he wanted to at that time.

[@randomfox12245]

I always figured it was some kind of soul decaying process or something. Like ghosts lose their minds if they don't pass on and start haunting shit? Someone who is dead can't remain in the land of the living because it isn't natural, so 24 hours per afterlifetime is the most they can get before something bad happens, like their soul evaporates or they go crazy or something. That's why his time gets cut short when he goes SS3 - he was taxing an already strained soul as it was.

[@justbny9278]

If there are more people as strong as Goku in the after life, and Goku has fought and made friendship with them Why not send them for help?

[@connorschultz380]

Considering SS3 took time from goku, it's likely noone is 'forcing him' physical to go back, but that the rule exists for a reason, this is also why I don't think goku going in the room would have worked

[@TheSoulExplorer]

Even worse than that, as soon as he goes back to the Afterlife, he gets out of there to never come back. And even on the Kaioshin Realm, he keeps insisting on not being able to go back to Earth. How do you know? You're not in the Afterlife now and no one is saying that you have to go back. Is the Kaioshin Realm outside of that rule? How does he even know that!? No wonder why Toriyama ended the manga after this clusterfuck of an arc. The man was clearly on life support at that point.

[@TheHylden]

He gets weaker by the end, so it doesn't seem to be something he can control. He was already exhausted, despite being healed by Dende, when trying to teach the boys fusion. Then going Super Saiyan 3 drains the rest of his time/energy.

[@saudbintalib5701]

I would love to see a Dragon Ball Dissection of the Moro Arc

[@sumerapaleema610]

Gotta have to wait a looong time for that. But the wait would definitely be worth it.

[@FlippySuper]

Yeah especially with all the Vegeta stuff and addressing some of his complaints about the character

[@chrismic8087]

I think honestly that would be the most harsh critique ever besides Minus, I'm a hardcore fan of the series who even loved Super and even I couldn't stand it by the final chapters, it's almost systematically perfect at dismantling everything good there is in the arc Except the Uub part, that's kinda adorable

[@leonardoalvarenga7572]

$uper isn't canon.

[@TheG_Remix]

@@sumerapaleema610 Considering his irrational hatred for modern DB, that's most likely not gonna happen.

[@dwainfrett5385]

I liked that Piccolo was chosen to teach the kids. It feels earned. Piccolo taught Gohan. They trained together for the 3 years leading up to the Androids (artificial humans). I just like it. Feels like character growth.

[@JasonGodwin69]

But Piccolo was never established to be a "Learns moves instantly" guy, while all Saiyans can copy any move they see. It makes no sense to drag the dance out for so long.

[@dwainfrett5385]

@@JasonGodwin69 I can buy that he could learn quickly. It's not just a Saiyan thing. Tien learned the Kamehameha quickly. Majin Buu is able to learn quickly. I think it's a trope in the series.

[@JackOfen]

@@JasonGodwin69 Dude, Piccolo went from a baby to being stronger than his father and learning all his techniques in 3 years. I think it's safe to say he is a quick leaner.

[@798jeremy]

@@JackOfen Accurate, totally earned point +1

[@798jeremy]

More precisely, Piccolo trained Gohan for the 1 year leading up to the Saiyans. And then they trained 3 years together again, but with Goku on their side that time ! Nevertheless, it seemed fair enough earned indeed Piccolo was the rightest possible teacher ever for Goten and Trunks after Goku went back the afterlife world anyway, yeah sure, definitely +1

[@danielquinlan2457]

The worst thing about the Room of Spirit and Time stupidity is that it's completely unnecessary. Toriyama is in complete control over how strong or weak everyone is. He could just have Goku and Piccolo do the logical thing and throw the boys in the Room of Spirit and Time for the full year so that they can learn Fusion in time _and_ just get way stronger on their own, and _still_ be not quite strong enough to take Boo down (or maybe they'd be strong enough to fight the current fat Boo but not the new-and-improved "Super" Boo that's going to show up in a few chapters). Regarding the Gohan thing, what irritates me nearly as much as the plot-hole induced stupidity preventing the rest of the characters from figuring out Gohan _should_ be alive is that they all write him off as _permanently_ dead. Like, they don't seem to think he's coming back ever. It's not like he's been resurrected by Shenlong before, so what's the deal.

[@brandonlyon730]

@Morph Ball Well death doesn’t matter when people who have the dragon balls can even remember you. Those people that Dr. Gero killed on that island were never brought back because they only wished those that died under Cell were brought back.

[@talesfromthenuzlocke1619]

@@brandonlyon730 same with those killed by Nappa on earth and vegeta on Namek. But those are nameless nobodies with no role and Toriyama forgot them alongside 64% of everything he has written, so eh

[@Mepphy99]

Also Porunga Is a thing and now, Thank you Dragon Ball Super..., The super Dragon ball exist

[@connorschultz380]

@@Mepphy99 the surprise dragonballs aren't convent to get tho, and beerus (stronger then everyone) has forbid them from gathering them else he will eruse them. The super dragon balls are the most difficult to gather dragonballs of all of them, even with a super dragonball rader, you just can't get them- And even then you need a god to speak the language of the gods (Kioshin could probably do it, but we've only seen an angle speaker make the wish, so it's possible only an angle can, which requires a god of destruction to sanction the wish)

[@Soynereh]

I reaaaally hope the Uub epilogue has an extrrrrrrrrrrravaganza.

[@simtek3475]

Oh you know it will.

[@ChaddyFantome]

The Goku TimeChamber point is one i thought of before but I must admit, the Gohan revival one is one that never crossed my mind. Excellent observation. And yea i agree. The main issue isnt even that its a "plothole". Its that it requires he intentionally main the cast braindead to get shit past the radar. Great video as always!

[@Nightshadow998]

The rant lived up to my expectations, good job.

[@jotabemont9967]

Honestly what drives me nuts about the Room of Spirit and Time is the same reason for Goku staying dead: If he needed an explanation for why it wasn't a good idea, he already had one that wasn't asinine. The room of spirit and time supposedly can only accept two people, so Piccolo and the kids could not enter and train together. I know that this is retconned latter when Gotenks and Piccolo enter with Majin Boo, but it would not strain credibility nowhere near as much as it does here, or at least be easier to explain.

[@MEXUS.]

Even that excuse would be dodgy. It should be noted that it’s never stated (in the manga at least) the RoSaT could only accept 2 people. It’s stated that the the room only has enough *food to sustain* 2 people for a year. This leads to a funny scenario in that Toriyama could have retconned the room to only accept two people, rather convincingly, but didn’t.

[@sharktamer]

what's actually funny about the "only piccolo can teach fusion" is that Mr Popo of all people would have been a far better candidate

[@Drums_of_Liberation]

Popo's too busy making toast or watering his weed. Besides, pecking order.

[@nicholassims9837]

@@Drums_of_Liberation if TFS did do Buu safa how would they have Mr Popo NOT deal with Buu as its doubtful they would just have him do it as they still kept true to the source as much as possible . Maybe do an Always a Bigger Fish with Mr Popo and Majin Buu ?

[@jaybee27D]

@@nicholassims9837 they’d probably start setting up some running gag about him being tired of living and he’d end up willingly dying. Either that or he’d like decide to return to his people on another planet at that exact time, conveniently absent from the Buu arc

[@nicholassims9837]

@@jaybee27D Once can onyl imagine what TFS would ahve done when Super Buu went to the Lookout

[@crisisboy5822]

@@nicholassims9837 i imagine it would be explained that popo is high the entire time

[@BGMfan]

As for Gohan being assumed dead, I just took it from the “He died in that tiny time gap between the wish and the reveal” option. Dragonball’s already done the “Alive for only a few literal minutes” suspense with the Namekian Grand Elder and Kami in the Saiyan saga to get Goku back to Earth, so it was logical to me that it could be done in the opposite direction: Shenron makes the wish too early, Gohan dies in the interim, and now it’s too late to redo that wish. Granted, this idea would/should have then been followed up with Goku and co. realizing that Gohan’s still not giving any ki, and then realizing that sequence of events, but this doesn’t happen. But as far as Gohan himself dying in that tiny timeframe, it never felt impossible for me to happen

[@shaquillesommerville4060]

I think the problem is that if Gohan did died after the wish then how come Goku all heal up like nothing happen? You would think at least if Goku was fighting with Gohan and Vegeta (since the others don’t know that Goku was fighting with Vegeta) then won’t logically they think Gohan is still alive due to Goku not being battle damage at all.

[@chabri2000]

19:30 goku: we may need it later, so don't use the chamber know. piccolo: if we die now, there won't be a later oportunity, we are totally using the chamber the second after you leave. -years later, dende would remove the pointless time limit, allowing vegeta and goku to spend years inside the chamber for no reason other than showing them with beard

[@MaxIronsThird]

I fucking hate super

[@enkiimuto1041]

I really wish Super didn't do that, but if it did, it could perfectly have used a timeskip saying dende used the dragon balls to do that.

[@manjiimortal]

I'll be honest. I've been on top of plenty of Toriyama's BS and bad writing, but I'd never considered that indeed there's no way for the characters to believe that Gohan is dead, seeing as they had just used the Dragon Balls to revive everyone. You're always learning how Toriyama can always make things even worse for himself.

[@PlanetZoidstar]

Plus they could ask King Yemma if Gohan checked in. Kami can physically go there so I don't see why Piccolo cannot.

[@chabri2000]

@@PlanetZoidstar or just ask king kai via telephaty. The plot needed gohan to stay dead, so they have to be dumb

[@Keiyon95]

Nbs in my 20+ years I NEVER peeped just how big of a plot hole/inconsistency that is

[@kylestewart2829]

They thought he died after the wish

[@Keiyon95]

@@kylestewart2829 .......how if he "died" before Vegeta?

[@Etrodecim]

I love that MistareFusion has been pointing out plotholes in Dragon Ball for years now, opening my eyes to things I didn't even notice growing up. yet People act like Dragon Ball Super is the only part of the story that has problems lmao.

[@tanyaharmon6739]

I know right!?

[@leonardoalvarenga7572]

$uper quadrupled the amount of problems.

[@tanyaharmon6739]

@@leonardoalvarenga7572 but db still had a lot of them, lol

[@Etrodecim]

@@leonardoalvarenga7572 not really no. it's more or less the same. Super has it's problems but it's not any worse than Dragon Ball.

[@prometheusmodelow8322]

Both DB and DBSuper have a lot of plot holes, the reason most people hate on Super instead of DB for it is because Super has an uninteresting and uninspired storyline to go along with the plot holes, unlike the original series, even in it's most messy arcs.

[@adamgentile7953]

Ever since I was a kid i was always confused how no one questioned why Gohan didnt come back to life. Glad you talked about it! Also wouldn't god know for certain if Gohan died or not

[@PrimeroJinJusuke]

Even back then when I was eight, I never bought the idea the Dragon Team wouldn’t be able to figure out that Gohan’s not dead. Even with the flimsy excuse of them being unable to sense his ki, they never were able to sense someone‘s ki who is near death unless they were in close proximity.

[@MustacheDLuffy]

They assumed that because they couldn’t sense it for so long, normally it goes back to normal but it doesn’t here because he’s too far away to sense on a different planet

[@PrimeroJinJusuke]

@@MustacheDLuffy Only a couple of hours at most had occured by that point, and they just used the Dragon Balls to revive a bunch of people. So, the Dragon Team must be under the impression that Gohan died after Shenlong was summoned, despite Piccolo, Kuririn and Goku being under the false impression that Gohan was killed before the Dragon Balls were used. (And he really would have died after the summoning of Shenlong, if it wasn't for the Kaioshin and Kibito, so that's a fair assumption.) At any rate, even when Gohan isn't severely injured, why would the Dragon Team think they can't passively sense Gohan's ki when he's not fighting at the moment? It's not like they showed a scene of Goku actively trying to locate him on Earth. It makes sense when Goku sensed him in the after life, not only because Goku being in much better proximity to sense him, but Gohan was also using his ki to train with the very heavy Z-Sword. We later see that Piccolo failed to sense Dende's ki because he was under the belief that he's dead and because Piccolo didn't bother to try to sense someone else's ki on wide areas. It also throws bad shades on Dende because as the God of Earth, he can observe the entire planet, and he had seven years of training to master that skill. He had the power to confirm if Gohan and the Kaioshin are dead or not. Heck, he even has the power to see which ones died and which ones didn't. He and Piccolo are later watching the whole friendship scenes with Boo and Satan. I can understand that Dende might not be able to watch everyone at the same time, but it shouldn't be hard for him to quickly confirm if Gohan's really dead when the initial meeting occured. Piccolo has that power too and we have seen him using it during the Cell Saga. He also should have been able to confirm if Gohan and the Kaioshin are really dead. Even if Gohan was dying after the wish, they should have figured out that one of the possible victims was either dead or alive. Because if he was alive, they would bring him to God's palace to bring him up to speed. And if he wasn't revived, then they should have guessed that he's not dead after all and they should look for him as quickly as possible. Dende and Piccolo have the power to track him easily on Earth.

[@fred2995]

No better way to start my day than with a DB Dissection video 😎

[@screaminginagony3601]

I just binged this series in the last month, and I’m so happy to see it continue! Can’t wait for the bio broly and fusion reborn videos!

[@Phillylove100]

I’m looking forward to the rant about one of the most famous plot holes in the series. Goku forgetting he could use instant transmission to get the dragon radar, but it actually lampshades another plot hole that I was hoping you’d bring up. Bulma acts like she can’t recreate the dragon radar at all even though she already did in like a day during the Piccolo Daimao arc when she was only around 19 years old.

[@bryanc7094]

Goku has to stand at the hideout and look cool if anything 😂

[@shocksconstant]

Even worse, the characters ARE suppose to be beyond light speed (or so power level debaters will tell you) so Trunks getting the radar and getting back to the lookout should of been instant anyway RIGHT?

[@ndiaz1982]

I like the idea of gohan selling crystal meth to the orphanage.

[@kari4638]

I laughed so hard. 🤣

[@justbny9278]

*In secret*

[@spartanq7781]

Gohan was in fact a naughty boy all along.

[@TehJellyLord]

I have finally caught up!! I’ve been binging this series for the last week and a half after being recommended the Buu arc part 16. I have to say that, while not in total 100% agreement with you, I have to say it is close to that. Excellently articulated points about every single possible little detail, and I’m just glad to see I’m not alone in preferring Dragon Ball before it became all about the fighting with impossibly high stakes to the point where it no longer feels in the slightest relatable or fathomable.

[@bryanc7094]

I can’t connect to much of the story after the Freeza arc ended, however I do commend Toei for all the money spent animating and budgeting the fights lol

[@MistareFusion]

I'm so glad you've been enjoying them! Thanks for letting me know!

[@rratt8532]

Relatability really means nothing unless you are a feel tard

[@NinjaGuyDan_]

Holy shit. I'll admit, it never dawned on my that they just accepted gohan's death right after making a wish that woulda made that impossible regardless

[@MADKapo]

I really wish Videl had followed her instinct and looked for Gohan, even as an anime filler.

[@blacksheep9458]

Brand new day, quit my job of 3 years, and this video brightened my day 😊❤

[@HybridAngelZero]

Ah, waking up to a new Dragon Ball Dissection is a wonderful feeling

[@YossarianVanDriver]

I always remembered it as "oh, I guess they thought Gohan died after the wish was made", but...Goku shows up to stop them making a second wish /after/ he hears about Gohan's supposed death, and he's the one who delivers the "news" to the rest of them, so...I guess not?

[@randomfox12245]

I might be early but I just realized something when the Z sword was brought up: Goku only having 24 hours of Back To Life time to spend at the tournament might be a dig at the anime. The anime always depicted the tournaments taking multiple days. They register then go to hotels, and sometimes they'd go back to their hotels for the night after only a few fights, ect. So if the anime wanted to depict this new improved Boudokai, they literally could not do it the way they always had by having it cover multiple days. "Goku is ONLY on earth for 1 day of 24 hours, so the tournament HAS to take place over one day, just like it ALWAYS HAD BEFORE YOU GOSH DARN ANIME PRODUCTION STUDIO!"

[@bluecheckmiya]

So much DBD as of late! It’s NEVER been this frequent and I’m loving it!

[@TactlessC]

The fact the Z sword isn't called the Z Calibur is one of the greatest missed opportunities in Dragon Ball.

[@gavinlucas9761]

There's nothing like watching a new episode of Dragon Ball Dissection on a beautiful monday morning!

[@haloeightYT]

over the years this series has helped me stamp out most of the respect i had for this show as a narrative i still love dragon ball but now it's really just cuz "it's cool" idk if that's a good or bad thing but i love your vids, which is a good thing lmao

[@sumerapaleema610]

Those two Kibito moments sweepingly made him a new Buu Arc favorite. 😁

[@spartanq7781]

A human in the comment section? This is highly unorthodox.

[@sumerapaleema610]

Do you think this is where Toriyama's exhaustion after 10 years of writing finally starts catching up? Or is it perhaps the leniency of his editor showing its cons? I'd say the former as the latter subtly implies an incompetence in attention which I don't want to claim Toriyama has as that feels too rude.

[@leonardoalvarenga7572]

The fact that it's rude doesn't matter since it's true. Toriyama is a terrible writer, he at least knew how to draw back in the day, but now he doesn't even know how to do that anymore. Dragon Ball $uper is proof of his incompetence, it's just another cash grab like GT, Heroes, Xenoverse and Online.

[@gsp6517]

@@leonardoalvarenga7572 In terms of pure cash grab, Heroes is on a whole other level.

[@Mike-xh2vm]

@@leonardoalvarenga7572 online was the most interesting thing out of the others options.

[@justbny9278]

Nothing wrong with an exhausted artist screwing up, Toriyama is only a mortal human after all

[@connorschultz380]

It's where his pantsing finally caught up to him, the truth is as someone who writes like that myself, some times it'll all come together, sometimes you'll have to leave plothooks that didn't pan out to die for the sake of story consistency and sometimes, just sometimes, the failure will be so colossal if you don't take a step back it could threaten everything your trying to make.

[@SumTr011]

Huh...I never noticed such an obvious oversight until you pointed it out (the fact that they already made a resurrection wish, but still assume Gohan is dead).

[@incrediblecaptain]

This is the first time the idea that Gohan shouldn’t be dead has come up. Its obvious once you think about it, but I never did. You even made a good point on why many people missed this plot hole

[@leafbladie]

Glad you clarified about the rule of 2 days in total. When I was a kid, I thought it was only 2 uses in total, so if you came out early, you would be wasting your time in there. That’s why I didn’t think it was such an issue when Goku said this, because using it just to teach them Fusion and not to make them stronger would be a bit of a waste. That said, I would be willing to believe that Goku couldn’t enter The Room of Spirit and Time because of being a spirit. The increased strain of the room might cause him to use up his time faster.

[@asherzerbib3461]

I never noticed the Gohan thing until the second you said it. Also the Kibito impression was spot on.

[@RubinNischara]

Great job, I honestly never ever noticed that inconsistency with Gohan

[@chrissullivan6572]

These make my day. I love to put them on while I sleep too.

[@pimpinrain6523]

Same

[@42Caio]

Holy fuck I NEVER noticed they should expect Gohan to have been revived by the Dragon Balls.

[@CbsOmegaOmniX]

I actually never thought of that either, that Gohan likely would have died before their wish was made.

[@mrponeis]

Rewatching past dissections and reading Toriyama Akira Marusaku Gekijou(1) I couldn't help but notice that most of the problems Lance presented in the Cell and Boo arcs coincide with Torishima Kazuhiko leaving and taking his personal brand of meddling (the very harsh kind) with him(2)? 21:30 the way Lance shouts at every character driven plothole just made me picture Torishima doing the same everytime Toriyama brought into a new idea in Dragon Ball earlier days... Coincidentally they are the parts better evaluated in the DBD list... And I found this parallel very funny... Enough to post a comment about it... as random as it seems If something it improved my opinion of the work editors do... Até mais ver mr. Poneis (1) A collection of various One Shots penned by Toriyama some of them rejected by the Jump editorial because they were too silly (ymmv, I really like them)... (2) though he still had a lot to do with the constant changing in antagonists in the Cell arc

[@jonmahashintina]

Torishima was a genius and helped so many manga that he was assigned to.

[@Tokumastu1]

And to think that the inconsistencies and lack of direction are just gonna keep escalating from this point.

[@sumerapaleema610]

I think the Gohan part could be fixed with someone pointing out the obvious, then assume he'll show up at the lookout, wait for him, but he never shows up.

[@themasteroffear2041]

That's a good question why do they believe Gohan's dead if they already used the Dragon Balls to resurrect people

[@Skywardflare758]

What kills me about both the Gohan thing and the Room of Spirit and Time thing is that they had convenient ways around it already in the story. Piccolo was turned to stone earlier and later Buu absorbs people without killing them. There are multiple ways for Gohan to be effectively dead that a generic bring back the dead wish doesn’t work to undo. And for the Room of Spirit and Time, they already had the two person limit. They could’ve played with that, meaning Piccolo and the boys couldn’t go in together, especially with fusion muddying the number of people, without risking the room trapping them forever. This is probably the third most frustrating section of what would otherwise be my favorite arc (the other two being how fully abandoned the school stuff and characters are and how the whole Gohan build up leads into a giant mess).

[@MaxIronsThird]

The room has food for 2 people for a year, there is no limit of people inside it.

[@bobbybob4230]

Something else to consider: Goku arrives just as 1 wish has been made and there are 1 or 2 other wishes remaining. Why doesn't Goku use this opportunity to wish him back to life in that very moment? The fact that nobody suggests that is so strange, and, of course, nobody ever comments on it. Instead, Goku just says to the dragon that's enough and that's that. Since Gohan's not dead, the dragon could just tell them that, and then they could wonder where he is or even wish him to Capsule Corp. to heal him.

[@pokesonav]

Considering that just going SS3 shortened Goku's time on Earth, it's probably some personal timer that's directly tied to his body, and not just Earth's time zones. Which means that Room of Spirit and Time wouldn't really help in this case. Like, maybe Goku is just given a personal "mortal energy reserve" that's keeping him connected to living world and usually would be enough to last him a day, but straining himself makes it burn away faster?

[@spartanq7781]

That still wouldn't explain why they couldn't just use it when Goku leaves.

[@woefulweeb4943]

It’s weird because it does something similar to Gotenks fusion time

[@brandonlyon730]

@@spartanq7781 He could’ve also used King Kai to psychically communicate that information in the room from the afterlife. And it’s not impossible in-universe either since Piccolo was freely able to do this to with the boys by himself while he stalls for time taking Buu the most indirect route to the room.

[@thehussiteking]

20:10 Fusion, did you really have to call me out like that?

[@spartanq7781]

Use the magic room to beat the super boss before he kills people. Goku: "no."

[@lemonjuice8024]

I’m not even going to lie, I never thought about that in dragon ball, like gohan should’ve been alive in the wish.

[@PlanetZoidstar]

This might be reaching, but I think the reason Goku stresses ONLY Piccolo can teach the kids how to fuse is because he's part Kami/God, and Goku trained under Kami/God for some time. And we know Goku takes his Sensei relationships very seriously. So in Goku's mind the only one who can teach the fusion is someone who has experience teaching martial arts. There's Roshi but he stopped being relevant a long time ago.

[@SomeRandomDude000000]

Or popo

[@MannyBoy96]

I may be remembering it wrong, but didn't Mr Popo train Goku rather than Kami? At the very least I don't think Kami had any direct combat training with him.

[@PlanetZoidstar]

@@MannyBoy96 Pop trained Goku. But I believe Kami trained Goku during the timeskip when Goku came back older and beat Tien in the Budokai rematch.

[@MannyBoy96]

@@PlanetZoidstar Ah, I may have forgotten about that part

[@kabutoclone2]

We never questioned their idocy because we got used to the supporting cast being cardboard cutouts to the point when we never even noticed their lack of character anymore.

[@gavinlucas9761]

You know I’m just as surprised as you are that everyone are worried about Gohan being dead despite the fact that they still have the Dragon Balls and that they could always wished him back. And how they have the room of spirit and time but for whatever reason Goku insists on not using it despite the fact that they could save a lot of time by using it. And how there’s that 2 to 3 wish thing that can’t decide if it’s really 2 wishes or 3 wishes. I guess I can see why people view this as their least favorite even though I really enjoyed the arc a lot more than the previous 3 right up to this point.

[@AndrewGarcia-jx5gk]

Hey mistare fusion I just wanted to say that I really appreciate these videos I’ve been watching since red ribbon part 1 and this has become my second favorite KZbin channel and this episode is one of my favorites now but thank you for making these videos all these years

[@young_shaad5227]

I love this series so much and I'm excited for the later installments such as GT and Super with you covering more specifically the heroes legacy ova and the moro arc

[@LeonardoRodrigues-uj1sm]

. . .

[@jamiemcneil9682]

Wow... great call on the Gohan situation. I never even thought about it.

[@Mallowigi]

I've picked up a lot of inconsistencies in Dragon Ball over the years, but I must admit that not once have I thought about this fallacy of Gohan and the Dragon Balls. This is like the kind of riddles where you have to find out the inconsistency in the statement.

[@SwisherSama]

I get so excited for these, you have no idea.

[@newtruths7786]

I love how he calls out all the plot holes

[@FourteenthAngel]

It been a while since I engaged with Dragonball proper and I've never noticed these plot holes before. It will certainly make the next re-read a interesting one.

[@ir0x539]

You just made my morning 100x better

[@BCbear551]

Incredible as always

[@Jose-se9pu]

I never understood not only why they couldnt sense Gohan's ki while he was still on Earth, but also why they were so sad, Gohan never died, even if Boo killed him, they could wish him back...Toriyama probably forgot about it by this point.

[@MustacheDLuffy]

They’d have to locate new namek and they didn’t know where or how to get there

[@spartanq7781]

@@MustacheDLuffy Forget that they just used the dragon balls so he would absolutely be alive. Toriyama writes everyone to be idiots to simplify the story.

[@MustacheDLuffy]

@@spartanq7781 I think that’s fair. They could’ve asked the dragon if he was dead or not which is something I didn’t think much about when it happened. Even still if gohan got clapped this hard it’s not he could’ve beaten Buu

[@spartanq7781]

@@MustacheDLuffy They wouldn't need to ask. It's really obvious.

[@MustacheDLuffy]

@@spartanq7781 they would need to ask since he’s nearly dead and they can’t sense his energy

[@cuac232]

Thanks for brightening my mondays!!!

[@pages4573]

If the Cell Saga was Toriyama's writing style all kind of working out in the end, then the Buu saga is his writing style completely falling apart part way through. I think on an old interview he said he sort of stopped planning chapters ahead after Trunks showed up. I think despite all its flaws, it sort of worked in the Cell Saga. Everything game toghther, and there was even a slight theme to it with father's and sons. (Goku/Gohan, Vegeta/Trunks, Gero/Cell) Though I doubt it was intentional on Toriyama's part. The Buu saga on the other hand feels aimless. Sure things happen, but it legit feels like 5 separate stories, which don't really fit together. It doesn't help the villian themselves is pretty much 3 separate characters that just happen to share the same name Buu.

[@Humorless_Wokescold]

With all the comedy, to me it looks like Buu-era Toriyama desperately wanted to go back to a more light hearted story but knew the audience probably wasn't interested in that. It's a huge tell that the fight between Mr Satan and 18 is so well done. The comedic stuff is Toriyama's respite from all the dire, earth shattering super fights.

[@AmigoRoberto]

I cant express how beneficial these videos are to my week. Thank you Fusion!

[@ZenkaiGoose]

Dope video fam, hype for 17!

[@sumerapaleema610]

I said last part that this all up to Super Buu is what I remember the least. I'm now glad I do because I get to be surprised by these plot points, like Piccolo's sudden photographic memory and Goku's priorities. Makes me wonder what your opinion on SSJ3 sucking up Goku's last few hours is.

[@skyrogue1977]

If Shin transported Gohan to the Kai realm when he was attacked by Buu instead of after, then the issue could’ve been mitigated.

[@Rationalific]

It's parts of Dragon Ball like this that remind me why I pretty much only return to the Saiyan / Namek Arcs.

[@natyfop]

I don't have enough information to postulate this, so correct me if I'm wrong, but maybe Toriyama was really burned out at this point? Idk, the mistakes and inconsistencies he keeps accumulating as the chapters go on look like what usually happens when a person has to work too much on something and is not allowed enough time to step back and rest properly. Like I said, I don't know if that actually happened to him, it just strikes me as a familiar pattern.

[@42Caio]

I don't think it's an issue with burnout alone. I mean, it's a part of it but the mistakes in keeping track with all the concurrent plotlines and timetables and rules is very similar to the issues the middle of the Cell arc had. I think Toriyama simply let both of these arcs get too complicated with too many moving parts for his on the fly writing style.

[@Humorless_Wokescold]

I know Dende is supposed to be bad at his job but wouldn't he know whether Gohan's dead? Like isn't there paperwork or something for him to fill out whenever a "hero" dies? At the very least Gohan would get to keep his body and Gohan literally saved Dende's life so... wouldn't he want to see Gohan one last time?

[@MustacheDLuffy]

Not really. He isn’t god or anyone who’s extremely capable. He creates the dragon primarily. The paper work is King Yemmas job in other world. He’s the guardian of earth and he just looks out for the people to make sure there aren’t any wars or anything too crazy. That was more Kami’s job than dende’s he relies on Goku to do that

[@Humorless_Wokescold]

@@MustacheDLuffy Huh? Dende is the god in charge of Earth.

[@numburger]

@@MustacheDLuffy If it's just Yemma's job why the hell didn't Goku just go to him to confirm whether or not Gohan didn't or didn't die instead just assuming he died. What if he was suppressing his ki to hide from Buu or something?

[@MustacheDLuffy]

@@numburger My only assumption is because he’s dead he doesn’t want to waste his 1 day on earth using up energy to perform the instant transmission, otherwise he could teleport to king yemma’s place and ask if he saw Gohan. When Yemma was first introduced he asked him if he saw Raditz go to the otherworld and he said yes.

[@mechajay3358]

It's right around this part of the Buu Arc that rational logic is thrown completely out the window. Toriyama is just throwing every idea at the board to see what sticks because he's that burned out on storytelling.

[@hocolate271]

The obvious answer to why they thought he was dead? Obviously, they think Gohan is a bad guy, and so he wouldn't be brought back in the wish.

[@sumerapaleema610]

I like the little detail of the lines at the corners of the panels to show what we see is Badidi magically visualizing himself, Buu, and even the tournament monk to everyone.

[@spartanq7781]

The idiocy of these characters are at their most extreme and frustrating in this arc. It's right around this point where the arc derails and it keeps getting worse. Of course there are it's bright spots from here on out but the negative spots are far too glaring to ingore. My main issue is the negligence and idiocy of everyone that just keeps making things even worse.

[@bryanc7094]

P L O T

[@spartanq7781]

@@bryanc7094 The plot should be shaped by the character's personalities. Instead of dumbing them down to serve the story. Then when the characters no longer need to be written as idiots they do what they should have done to begin with. We see the exact same thing happen in the last arc.

[@bryanc7094]

@@spartanq7781 I agree completely, Toriyama trying to distance himself so much from his earlier work is the reason why the “Z” portion feels so inconsistent. He has to dumb down every character to force a story out of his gag manga which is why I used the PLOT meme.

[@zekken8227]

I really really like how you scrutunize the story in every video, it keeps it interesting. DBZ is such a fun story to go through due to that tho dont you agree? At east in video format

[@The_One_In_Black]

What I find interesting here is that, several times before he leaves, Goku says that he can't detect Gohan's ki. This makes me wonder if Gohan really *was* killed by Buu. I'm not sure if Goku makes that observation after the wish, but it's possible he only stayed on Earth for about 5 minutes after the wish.

[@MannyBoy96]

That's an interesting point, but if he had died against Buu and then been revived by the Dragon Balls a few moments later, Kibito wouldn't have to heal him. I think we can assume that Gohan would keep his body in Other World too, which means that his body (and clothing) would have been as good as new when he was brought back.

[@clearin9642]

21:10 Well they have Dende and Popo on hand should the dragon balls actually be destroyed, so losing them really isn't a concern. (This isn't defending Goku's decision to not use the time room or anything, I just wanted to point out this one specific thing)

[@danielbetancourt1483]

I have to state my appreciation for how well written the ending plug was

[@kaialone]

Watching this made me notice again how Bobbidi seems to use a different font when speaking compared to the other characters? I doubt he remembers it now, but I wonder what Toriyama's thought behind that design choice was (or whoever made the choice) I guess it could indicate an unusual sounding voice? Dunno if that was the idea, but either way, I just end up hearing Joji Yanami's Bobbidi when I read it (even tho the manga came first, of course)

[@MistareFusion]

From what I understand it's basically shorthand for a withered old man voice. The font is thin and kind of scratchy, evocative of a frail voice.

[@kaialone]

@@MistareFusion Oh neat, that makes sense. That's what I figured, but I've never seen anyone say "yeah, that's what that is" If that's the case, I do think Joji Yanami hits that tone of voice pretty well ^^

[@TheAzulmagia]

"And eventually we'll get to see which plan works out." hahahahahahahahahahaha

[@spartanq7781]

That was best joke he ever made.

[@Kingshit69]

I think an in universe explanation for the characters lack of urgency is that no matter what happens to the Earth the Namekian Balls are safe. Heck they directly aid in the defeat of Kid Buu

[@ThelronFjord]

Yeah, but Goku's the only person who knows how to get to New Namek, and instantly, so unless Bulma and her dad repurposed that Ginyu Space Pod that Goku arrived to Earth on, they have no other way to get into space.

[@xExotic]

Wow! I never realized how many problems there were in this small section of the arc!

[@heltongomez8865]

Mmm I think it was just the impact of knowing Gohan, Goku’ son who everyone saw grow up, was just killed is obviously gonna bring some concern or reaction regardless. Remember, most of them are older than Gohan so they see him as a kid still. And even if they forgot due to the rush of the moment, it’s fine.

[@EvanSol919]

Sure in that moment it can be forgiven but what about when the majority of the cast are just sitting around while the boys learn fusion? Krillin doesn't ask what exactly the wish was? The Ox-King doesn't want to know when his grandson was killed? Even just trying to make a basic timeline of events shows that Gohan would have been killed before the resurrection wish was made and thus should have come back to life because he never died before.

[@Redeyblagon]

I expected you to do a whole fhasion extravaganza on Gohan's new clothes. But you didn't and now I'm sad. Just kidding, great video as always!

[@jayschil318]

Wow I never realized that Gohan being dead is impossible due to the wish.

[@terraventusaqua123]

Holy crap! I totally didn’t expect another part so soon!

[@Ahturos]

I never trully watched Dragonball throught and throught so I had no idea the timing of everything. But I like how you digest this like a trial in Phoenix Wright. I can see you cross examinate Krillin about why he is so sure Gohan is dead but not Tienshinhan for not sensing his ki. Now I do wonder if they never adress why Goku can´t be in the Room, sure they could say 2 people, but then they are 4 later with Piccolo, Buu and the kids so that rule seems to be out. I still think Piccolo is the best one to show and tell how it works becuse at this point everyone else are so stupid and absent minded that I would´t trust them how to post a letter. Like let´s say Goku shows Krillin. He would be like this "Eh how did it look now again, you did this and fusion, but how was it again." Etc anyone but Piccolo at this point would either disregard the important stances in fusion and take it seriously. Which sadly shows how unimportant everyone are, but Piccolo needs to play some part as he is Toriyamas favorite charcter.

[@matthewyoung9088]

Objection! A Phoenix Wright reference in a future DBD would be great.