Overloading on Gods - Dragon Ball Dissection: The Majin Boo Arc Part 6!

[@RubinNischara]

Lance: "This chapter introduced way too many gods at once." Dragon Ball Super: "Hello, there."

[@williamharmon4039]

@tremaine marion I would say thag by this point Dragan Ball has stopped being so much based on Journey to the West as retaining some motifs from it whole splitting off into a fighting action series instead of the adventure stuff that came before.

[@androidsenpai1462]

If I may, the concept of the Hakaishin actually plays very well into the dichotomy of the Kaioshin as their opposites, and it’s possibly the best original idea to come from DB Super. Unfortunately, it’s also one of the only good elements, as the arcs of that series are populated by a tournament with another universe featuring nothing but clones of existing concepts (Saiyans, Freeza, and Paikuhan for the U6 Saiyans, Frost, and Hit), a bargain basement Tullece that wipes out the satisfaction of Future Trunks’ story being resolved at the end of the Cell arc, a disorganized tournament in which the only concept that isn’t boring as dung that actually gets a main role is Ultra Instinct, and some unholy fusion of the Cell and Boo story arcs that doesn’t really improve on either. The manga actually went in the right direction with an arc centered around further expansion on the Freeza Force Saiyans’ pillaging through-get this-a complete original character with an actual interesting moveset, and the Broli movie took the anime’s writing quality in the direction it ABSOLUTELY needed, but both mediums ended up regressing with their interpretations of DB Super: Super Hero. Otherwise known as my least favorite arc of the series just for how poorly paced and creatively bankrupt it is. Hell, it doesn’t even focus on anything DB Super’s set up; it just thrusts us into a completely detached story arc that we’re supposed to take as a serious fighting arc that’ll have major implications on the story. No it won’t.

[@Dexuz]

Funnily enough, while that much is true, DBS gods are handled in just the way Lance would be happy for gods to be handled, they're actually well defined, their roles are clear, just as with King Yemma, we know what Beerus' job is, and we know what Whis' job is as well.

[@sylentknyte]

Honestly, living in Japan and understanding how hierarchical and convoluted company structures are here, this is funny to me. The Gods of Dragon Ball have a hierarchy like a Japanese Salary mans office.

[@Clean.Eastwood]

That is a running theme, I suppose. I mean, Enma's office is even modelled after corporate bureaucracy.

[@randomfox12245]

Japan is said to have so many gods that there are even gods in every grain of rice. Maybe it works as unintentional satire in multiple ways.

[@maxmustermann9058]

The funny thing is that t's actually way less beauracratic than the celestial beauracracy of the actual chinese gods that Sun Wukong messed with in Journey To The West, which Dragon Ball is inspired by. Kinda hard to see it as a satire when it's actually toned down, instead of exaggerated.

[@saiyajedi]

You haven’t lived until a minor non-item gets held up in hanko purgatory because a single middle manager can’t be located around the office.

[@desmondscalaro9560]

could it be the Japanese attempt at satire on the bureaucracy of Chinese mythology?

[@Aronia55]

Dragon Ball has too many Gods: Kami, King Kai, Supreme Kai, MistareFusion, Beerus

[@dvader518]

Super Saiyan God, Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Improved, Saiyan beyond God, Zamasu, etc.

[@TheAzulmagia]

Does God ki even do anything? After the initial hype, it just seems to do the same stuff as regular ki unless you're explicitly using something like Hakai.

[@jordancromwell]

@@TheAzulmagia That's what I'm saying. God ki... is... useless. If people with normal ki can just go up on par or beat people with God ki then what's the point of God ki?

[@NataliaNeeSama]

Lets not forget the Xeno(s) too...

[@theradionicrevival8068]

It’s like super saiyans and stuff; there’s literally so many they have lost all meaning and feeling of importance Like do y’all remember when you first saw characters like king yemma, king kai, kami and such? It felt like such a big deal then. Now they’re like ants

[@spartanq7781]

I just realized we are 6 parts in and are still in the 1st 3rd of the arc. God this really is going to be 100 parts at this rate. I love it.

[@masenmeans5893]

You mean Kami- er, Kaio... shin this going to be 100 parts at this rate

[@spartanq7781]

@@agentpaint I know how this works but it's still is going to take eons to finish hallelujah. The more the better. Don't worry he says. I never said I was worried.

[@spartanq7781]

@@masenmeans5893 You mean Dai Kaio. Who is the God over the Gods that are over those Gods who are over that portion of that galaxy. It's so weird.

[@fightingmedialounge519]

You definitely came across as worried

[@spartanq7781]

@@fightingmedialounge519 I did say I love it.

[@saiyajedi]

“But this is the point where I begin to roll my eyes at how many levels of god there are in this series.” */Zen’oh has entered the chat*

[@PortaTerzo]

Just wait for Dragon Ball Ultimate, when it's revealed Zen’oh is just one of four world-kings, and subordinate to a reality-king.

[@ForwardSynthesis]

It gets even weirder in Super where no other universes seem to follow the East-West-North-South structure, and there's only one Kaioshin in each universe taking part in the tournament saga, equivalent to our universes East Kaioshin who is only alone in the first place because Boo killed his boss and team mates. I guess each universe could have unseen Kaioshin that didn't turn up, but it certainly doesn't acknowledge this in any way. In fact, they explicitly ignore it in the Zamasu material, because he's the apprentice to a single Kaioshin, with no cardinal or Dai Kaioshin to be seen. Do other universes have just one Kaio as well?

[@frappompi]

Yeah I always saw that as a necessary retcon of sorts, it would've been ridiculous to have 4 kaioshin for each universe, the ToP was crowded enough without them. I kinda liked the female Kaioshin though so that's a shame I guess.

[@brandonlyon730]

I thought Zamasu was originally the northern cardinal Kai of his universe, before the supreme Kai of that universe took him in as an apprentice?

[@pages4573]

I think in the manga Zamasu WAS the north Kai who got promoted or something. Even then it's not well explained.

[@PortaTerzo]

Isn't Zamasu the equivalent of Kibito?

[@jamiesokolik9641]

Those are the Dai Kaioshin of the other Universes, so it makes sense there aren't other ones during the T.O.P. what doesn't make sense is why Shin is tied to Beerus? Why old kai isn't the dai kaioshin? The god hierarchy gets very muddled.

[@MCWaxC]

In fairness to modern Dragon Ball, it’s heavily implied that the Gods of Destruction are less superior in status to the Kaioshins and moreso their violent, destructive counterpart, sort of like two sides of a coin, a yin and a yang. They try to justify the destruction gods being stronger than the creation gods by giving them the role of destroyer in the first place, which I guess would require more power. Why Beerus has a fully fleshed out and unique fighting style with intricate techniques despite his status and unrivaled power not really requiring he ever do battle? No clue. Dragon Ball sometimes unnaturally equates power to fighting prowess, which is a shame because it’s really at its best when a character’s technique or strategy can shine through. The gods of destruction are meant to be equal in status to the kaioshins while still being strong enough to surpass the heroes, which is why Beerus dies when his Kaioshin is killed. Still, all this does not justify Zeno, who is so powerful that he literally cannot be fought, since he can destroy anything instantly. Having an all powerful top of the totem pole doesn’t seem inherently a bad thing to me if it’s done well, but it’s kind of weird for Dragon Ball after all the power creep to just put some unbeatable little football in the top slot. The angels are also a strange case, but I like them. They’re cool and rarely get in the way imo. All of this is ignoring the issue of the QUANTITY of gods being too great, which I ignored because I have no excuses for that. It’s a problem. The title of god means practically nothing anymore, and every new god introduced amplifies that sentiment.

[@succubastard1019]

The problem I have with the new cosmology is that Zeno's powers are basically Beerus' but on a bigger scale. You'd imagine the *final* god tier of all god tiers to have something else up his sleve, but nope, just erasing things. Heck, he even exists in other timlines, which deminishes his role, but then again, this is Dragon Ball. Also Beerus and Whis could very well just be the same character at this point: have an extremely powerful godly mentor, but that is always neutral and with a limited amount of action that they can take instead than a God that does nothing but stand there, be an asshole, and occasionally blow something up and a defective teacher that is just as inactive in the story. This would probably be far harder of a concept to execute, but come on, if you wanna have a passive recurring character, just have one.

[@MCWaxC]

DMB I do agree things get crowded with destruction gods AND their angels, but I’d be lying if I said I didn’t like Beerus and Whis as separate characters. They’re both really fun and unique and I like them as their own separate characters more than if they were combined into one character. Definitely not ideal, but they’re both super fun and entertaining.

[@Fuchsfeuer]

there are more gods than main characters. Do you have to say more on the subject? ^^

[@MCWaxC]

Ati1m That’s true, but to be fair that wouldn’t be as big of an issue if it weren’t for how the hierarchy is built. Having many gods isn’t necessarily a terrible idea, but when their statuses are so convoluted and poorly thought out it makes things very confusing and devalues their purpose and prestige. Who cares if Dende is “the god of earth?” What’s he gonna do, whack Moro with his stick? The title of god is meaningless not just because of the quantity of gods but also because of how useless so many of them are when it comes to the main part of Dragon Ball: the fighting.

[@arqueiroXD]

Yeah...the god pantheon got pretty ridiculos. I will say one thing...Bills trully didn't need to exist...i can see the angels working doing the god of destruction job and having the same results in the series. God of destruction is one of the most not used concepts in all of dbz...Bills does nothing all the time...and what he does could easily had been done by Whis that servers the same purpose...is just far superior doing it. And Zeno is a weird character...because he has bill powers but bigger...but he also implied to be weaker...and in the anime is actually a baby,not a kid,a baby(I would have 0 problems with a kid god...but a baby god is kinda hard for me).

[@Acerthorn]

I wonder if even the characters in-universe are aware of how much all these gods and all these super strong enemies just take the piss out of each other. After all, that would explain why they refuse to take the threat of Majin Buu seriously until Majin Buu actually gets released. Yes, Supreme Kai says that Majin Buu can (in the funimation dub's exact words) "destroy this entire planet and all of its inhabitants in an instant!" But then again ... so could Cell! So could Frieza! And they've plowed through those guys just fine! They've heard this doom-and-gloom prophecy far too many times to take it seriously.

[@fightingmedialounge519]

I wouldn't call nearly dieng just fine.

[@Keiyon95]

Cell: Not just the Earth; the Entire Solar System

[@Jotari]

Well yeah, isn't that a whole point of the stuff on the Babidi spaceship? In fact, I recall Shin even have some kind of mental breakdown when he realizes how strong the Sayians are and how little this is phasing them.

[@animefan77]

6:08- Krillin: I’m the only normal guy here. Vegeta: You’re noseless and you have the same kind of eyes from those weird Hand Banana shows my kid watches- Main Trunks: Actually it’s Hanna Bar- Vegeta: Yamcha looks more normal than you. Hell your wife looks more normal than you- she’s a cyborg! And so do Kakarot and I- and we’re aliens!

[@spartanq7781]

That is dead on.

[@38procentkrytyk]

Piccolo: You know, Vegeta has a point. For the most of time I look more normal... until somebody notices I have a Green Skin. Friggin racists.

[@InvaderWeezle]

I read this in their abridged voices

[@mrboerger1620]

YEEEEEEE

[@quantumality5826]

@@InvaderWeezle lol yes i laughed so loud (its midnight)

[@CortezaDeAbedul]

As much flaws the series has, I'll never regret expending all the time and I've expent, and to some degree, I've come to love it even more thanks to you.

[@NeroDeAngelo]

When he was first introduced I really, REALLY liked Shin. He had something menacing, something intimidating, and he introduced GOd Ki to the series (which we only know since Battle of Gods and if you then think back, but no one was able to feel Shins Ki in the original series.) and I really, really liked his facial expression, this smug face giving off the feeling that he knows everything, like he is above you while playing innocent. And if Shin would have been that, he would have been soooooo amazing! In fact, after Whis introduction, Whis was what I hoped SHin would be originally. A god (Okay, Whis is an angel, but stay with me here), immensely powerful, more powerful than ANYONE else, but his hands are tied in the whole Boo Thing since he is not allowed to intervene with the world of the mortals, that he is already kinda trespassing that rule by already guiding them. Shin would have been so much cooler. But they would lure Boo into the realm of the Kaioshin, and there we see how strong Shin really is since he now is not fighting for mortals, but for the realm of the gods where the rules to not interfere does not apply. Boo is no match for him, but he does not have the means to permanently destroy Boo, and that only a Powerful Genkidama could do that! And I would have loved if he and Beerus had a much better dynamic, like not liking each other, but respecting each other, and that they talk more on equal terms with each other. At the very, very least I would have liked with the current Shin in DBS that he is cocky and arrogant against Beerus, since he knows that Beerus would never do anything to him, because it would harm/kill him as well. Anyway, I really don't like how Shin turned out in the original Manga and anime, how fast he turned from menacing and intimidating to a total loser who has no impact on the story besides telling the heroes about Boo...

[@NeroDeAngelo]

@Wrath Incarnate I can actually get behind that way of thinking. Really, I truly can. However if you do something like a continuous series you have to at least make sense of everything that is happening. But if you throw one thing into another into the bowl without caring what you put into, all you get out of it is a hot mess that tastes like nothing, or sh*t! Don't get me wrong, I like the original Manga and the series as it is. Hell, I even like GT. However specifically all the retcons and BS that happened with DBS is what destroyed it all for me.

[@dn22pkkdd476]

@On My Way this is the best way to write and draw.

[@DarthMeteos]

Next time on DBD; Lance grapples with the single most uncomfortable scene in Dragon Ball. See ya there!

[@animaticlunatic9259]

Can you remind me what it is? Videls fight? I mean, yeah it was brutal, but not really anything new for Dragon Ball. I

[@BigA207]

Masako put it pretty high on his worst DBZ moments list, and I couldn’t agree with its placement more!

[@Encyclopedia_Brown97]

It's pretty damn violent, especially bc it comes in the midst of an arc that, up to that point, had been pretty Goofy and lighthearted. Videl gets her nose broken and her teeth knocked out on-screen

[@TheAzulmagia]

@@animaticlunatic9259 There are a number of things I was bothered by in regards to that scene, and not all necessarily because Videl was a woman. I'm bothered by the fact that everyone just sits there and lets it happen. I don't even necessarily mean the Dragon Team either. Where was the tournament staff? You mean to tell me that they get cocky assholes every year and they have no protocol in place for what to do if someone gets uppity and steps out of line? There's also the fact that it's a moment that happens and then is never addressed again, which makes it come across as worse in hindsight. This is the moment where Videl goes from crime-fighter to Gohan's girlfriend and ultimately Gohan's wife/child-bearer, which is kind of a disservice to Videl as she has been portrayed up to this point. And not only does that end her combatant role, she's not even avenged by Gohan or her father. She doesn't even get to confront the guy who did that to her again. Instead, Babidi just blows his head up and everyone immediately forgets he existed.

[@animaticlunatic9259]

@@TheAzulmagia Oh, yeah, I forgot about context of a fight. Usually people that I talk to only complain about how brutal the fight was. I never had a problem with women getting rough up in dangerous situations. Men and women in fiction to me are on the equal footing. But yeah, you are somewhat right. That scene was weird. She was getting beat up, not it a life of death fight, but in a modern tenkaichi tournament. I could get it to some extent if it was a classic , pre satan tournament, since in those days children could enter and get there teeth knocked out without anyone raising a finger. But this is a post modern one. But since they allowed women to compete without making a big deal of it, they probably did not loose all of there edge. Still, someone should throw in the towel. Especially Gohan or Anyone else for that matter. I know that they have tendecies to sit around doing nothing while one person is having there 1v1 death fight, but still. That did not stop them to get yamcha fixed after his loos to Tien, or krillin and gohan helping Vegeta. It just became comical to me after a while

[@UltraSonic343]

For the concept of a god that's threatening to the heroes despite being much weaker than them, I think Zamasu actually did a better job at it. In the manga, the future Zamasu that didn’t become Goku Black is shown to be dangerous even in a non-combative role. Aside from wishing for immortality, he’s capable of freely traveling through time, endlessly healing Black (making him even stronger from the Saiyan near-death powerup), teleporting away Goku’s bag of Senzu and then burning it, using the same paralysis that Kaioshin used on Gohan, and taking advantage of vital information that only higher gods would be privy to for his own ends. After he and Black fuse, he even summons multiple Kachin blocks to throw for offensive purposes.

[@joaocalixto1686]

Yeah I really like how they handle Zamasu in the manga, how he uses his godly abilities to gain advantage against far stronger foes. That is until they fuse. Fused Zamasu in the manga has the most boring set of skills and fighting style possible, and that Kachin shit is pretty stupid

[@Dexuz]

@@joaocalixto1686 About the Katchin blocks spam, I do would say it is dumb, but you know what it is more dumb? That in the anime everyone could break the Tournament of Power arena supposedly made out of a material harder than Katchin, bs. So yeah, I rather have Katchin break Blue Goku's arm and be indestructible even for him rather than a lie. Oh, and the portal creation while stolen it served as an actual plot point, making believable for Zamasu to survive the hakai, that alone provides more point to the ability than random lighting and spears that anime Zamasu used. It is less exciting? Well yeah, but that is an empty feeling, a well written story stays forever.

[@randomfox12245]

The point about Picollo forfitting the match against Shin and that being the strongest evidence that Piccolo is just Kami but young again now is probably the point I've always thought myself but never been able to articulate anymore. Probably because it always took the form of annoyance at "Piccolo is Gohans real dad!" jokes. Sorry memers, but Kami isnt Gohans dad. Seriously though, even despite all of Piccolos development, I dont buy for a second that he'd concede without even STARTING the fight no matter who the opponant was. If that was ACTUALLY Piccolo, even if he KNEW who Shin was (perhaps especially if he knew) he'd still want to fight the guy in order to see how he measures up against the divine and perhaps prove he's superior to them. He was the Demon King after all. That scene is the strongest proof there is that the Piccolo we knew and loved is dead and has been for a long time.

[@samueloak1600]

I think Piccolo isn't dead, just blended in. "Kamiccolo" has a lot of badass attitude unattributable to God, plus his bond with Gohan is still there (not his father obviously, but still).

[@TheHylden]

@@samueloak1600 Yes, it seems Piccolo is now the Namek without a name who split in the first place, just wiser from both experiences as Kami and as Piccolo. So, he'll have memories and attributes from both, as they are both him to begin with. Plus, he has a bit of Nail in there, too.

[@samueloak1600]

@@TheHylden It's ironic because Nail stated Piccolo would remain the dominant personality, but by the end of the Namek arc we already see quite a bit of Nail in him.

[@TheHylden]

@@samueloak1600 Yes and Dende could clearly see him in Piccolo.

[@TheHylden]

@@samueloak1600 Yup

[@danielquinlan2457]

I may be jumping the gun on this, but one thing that's anyways bothered me about Dragon Ball's pantheon of gods is the fact that there are two sets of gods that rule over the cardinal directions. It just seems redundant to me to have an East Kaio and an East Kaioshin. I guess you could make it work by saying that the reason the Kaio were established was to fill the rolls of the Kaioshin Boo killed/absorbed millions of years ago, but as is, it just seems really sloppy.

[@najadamu2724]

I honestly still can't tell what the Kaioshin even do other than "watch over" the universe (not counting the "gods of creation" element Toriyama reveals long after the original manga ended and seemingly only to serve as a parallel to the Gods of Destruction who we see have ACTUAL roles). At least the Kaios have their own galaxies to keep in check, and the Grand Kaio could at least be considered their "boss", office-style. And then we get the Dai Kaioshin, previously the highest god we know prior to the GoDs/Angels, who pretty much only serves to unnecessarily explain why we got Kid Boo after Fat Boo was ripped out of Super Boo... ugh, what a mouthful.

[@Fanatic_Foremem]

I think the implication is that the compass kaioshin of universe 7 were more just 4 understudies that the current kaioshin couldn’t bring himself to pick from as his successor, so he just trained all of them and let them stay on. So it’s not how things are normally done, the U7 kai are just super nice and wacky.

[@SaiyanHeretic]

Toriyama is a gag mangaka at heart. Pointless redundant bureaucracy is the whole joke. All this stuff about hierarchies and Gods of Creation versus Gods of Destruction was never mapped out in advance. There was no Beerus or Omniking when Kami or King Kai were introduced. A big deal is made that if Shin had been killed by Buu, then Beerus would have died too, because their lives are apparently linked -- but Shin wasn't even the highest god of his station, that was the Grand Supreme Kai. Does that mean Universe 7 used to have four Gods of Destruction, for each of the Cardinal Supreme Kais? Or does it mean Beerus used to be linked to GSK and that mantle was automatically passed to whomever was available, so his life was only in danger if all five Supreme Kais died? And why does it seem like none of the other Universes have multiple Supreme Kais? Because none of it matters! Again, *that's the joke.*

[@Kakaragi]

Daniel Quinlan, How did you make this comment a week ago?

[@Fanatic_Foremem]

@@Kakaragi patreon members get the video early

[@Zhyro00]

I cant help but think how different the whole series would be if Toriyama hadn't established every single enemy as "The strongest guy in x" what if piccolo were just a demon? like a strong demon but not the literal devil of the planet? or if frieza was a strong space warlord but not the literal owner of half the known universe, hell what if frieza himself was a cog in a much bigger system and killing him only created a power vacuum for other villain to come along? if the point of the series is that there is always a bigger fish why does Toriyama has to stablish over and over that the current villain is the biggest most baddest shark in the ocean? i dont get it.

[@Dexuz]

The answer to that is quite evident, ease of writing and stakes, by stating that Frieza is "the strongest warrior in the universe" you give the reader the idea that besting him would be a herculean feat. Toriyama is a lazy smartass in that regard, he knows how to write a compelling, exciting story using the least amount of neurones.

[@chugiron4698]

At the very least Super does it a little better. Obviously everything before the Gods of destruction are so jumbled up and ridiculous but I think having Beerus and Whis as unbeatable forces for multiple sagas actually gives some scale for the characters getting stronger. But then again after introducing so many new universes the story immediately goes with a "ooh but what if all the universes fought in a tournament and goku had to beat the strongest guy!" plotline. I wonder if the being above Zeno will be revealed by the time Goku can beat Whis or if we'll have to wait until the next series

[@godemperorofmankind3.091]

because they usually arent. piccolo is revealed to be nothing compared to dabura. and freeza is revealed to be nothing compared to some other aliens out there. cold and freeza even KNOW theyre not the strongest beings in x because cold warns freeza never to try to fight beerus or buu. it was just hyping themselves up because they want to sound tough. sure, as far as they know, nobody other than those two can tangle with them, hence the arrogance, but theyre also idiots in that case, which means there could be more than that who can beat them. when beerus is revealed, at first hes hyped as the strongest guy out there and the strongest to ever live. nope. whis is above him. and later on we find out two guys are above even whis.

[@leaffinite2001]

@@godemperorofmankind3.091 but all of those examples were written in later. When Freezas arc happened he was the strongest alien guy, and that didnt change until toriyama had to hype up the newest, more current "toootally the strongest guy this time" in buu or beerus

[@gavinlucas9761]

Kami: I am God and there is no one else higher than me! Kaio: Don't listen to him I'm the real God! Kaio Shin: Your both wrong! I'm the real... Me: Okay seriously? are there any other Gods in this series I should know about?!? Burrus and Zeno: ....

[@TheAzulmagia]

I can't wait for Zen'o's parents, the Super Mega Ultra Giga Omni with Extra Cheese Kings, to show up.

[@38procentkrytyk]

@@TheAzulmagia Zeno Mama: Ok pie-apple, put your toys back to their Universe and go for dinner.

[@Astrothunder_]

Jesus... just think about all the Kamis of the countless planets from other universes we don’t see on screen. Or the Kais of the galaxies of the other universes. That’s A LOT of Gods!

[@jcdlRayas]

In a way, Kaioshin and Beerus kimd of work like the four Kaio thing. Equal gods with different jurisdictions

[@DragonBallSuperDope]

Whenever that music starts, I just get so amped. Never fails.

[@samueloak1600]

BGM 1703 😎😎

[@CSManiac33]

Love how you refuse to acknowledge Tenshinhan being a descendant of a three eyed alien race when talking about who is the strongest earthling

[@MistareFusion]

Haha, you know, that wasn't even an intentional dig. It honestly didn't even occur to me to say it. It did not even enter my brain pan. I guess that's because it's not in the story! =P

[@DJmouchi777]

Because it's a useless retcon that doesn't have any bearing in the series and isn't even brought up in any DB medium except maybe Heroes. Him just being a three eyed human was fine; we already accepted that you can not have a nose and be human.

[@spartanq7781]

@@DJmouchi777 I said this years ago but they could have made logical sense out of his third eye. It is said that powerful monks have a strong sense known as a third eye. The difference being Tenshinhan would litterly have a third eye. So they had no reason to go the alien route.

[@mielthesquid6536]

I really hope it was sarcasm.

[@ForwardSynthesis]

Well, Yamcha wouldn't know that anyway (even taking it as true).

[@PrimeroJinJusuke]

I hope you are eventually going to mention about Gohan‘s fruitless attempt to conceal his identities. The Great Saiyaman was originally invented by him, so he could transform into an SSJ in disguise, but the disguise itself made the purpose redundant, so he never needed to transform. The tournament‘s restriction forced him to resort to a bandana and sunglasses, but the bandana couldn’t hold his golden hair, and his classmates immediately recognized him without the bandana. So his disguise ultimately failed its original purpose. And strangely enough, Gohan became the Golden Warrior because he didn’t want to be recognized as someone with super strength. Yet he knew that SSJs were known by the public because of the Cell Games, and he didn’t want the Saiyans to transform because they would be too recognizable. The Golden Warrior was a cover for Gohan‘s identity, the Great Saiyaman for both identities, and Gohan tried to hide the fact that he was a participant of the Cell Games by trying to not to transform in public. And he spectacularly failed in all of them.

[@DJmouchi777]

At least he got a cool outfit out of the whole ordeal.

[@fightingmedialounge519]

Yeah what is he daredevil.

[@TheAzulmagia]

This series definitely has an escalation problem, but it's mainly because Toriyama wants to get right to the best part too fast. It's not enough that Goku goes into space and fights a strong alien; he has to fight the strongest alien! Similarly, it's not enough that Goku fights the strongest guys from his sister universe; he and his friends beat up the strongest guys from practically EVERY universe (sans four). So now where do you go? Uh... random goat man that had never been mentioned before. Sure is convenient how many previously unmentioned ancient evils happen to exist in Universe 7!

[@succubastard1019]

I mean, Moro sort of has the excuse of being a hax character that becomes as strong as thegood guysby feeding directly on their energy, in amuch more effective way than Gero and 19 did, and the only way he was successfully stopped in the past was thanks to magic and godly powers, things that are unrelated to strenght, which Gokuand Vegeta have to master to match him. I think that if put like this, the idea works more than something like DBS Broly, for example. The obstacles this idea faces are another story though: where did he come from? Why did the Kais just allow someone with those techniques to exist in the universe? Wouldn't more people like him exists elsewhere? How can he absorb God Chi (daily reminder that the concept of God Chi has no reason to exist)? Why does Beerusporve to be consistentlòy useless despitehim having already faced the consequences of his actions?

[@succubastard1019]

@Wrath Incarnate I'm not saying that he is original, since even if you are being generous, he still is *heavely* inspired by previous villains. I'm just saying that the idea of Moro isn't such a step backwards compared to previous threats, at least not from a conceptual point of view. And honestly, rip off or not, whether things didn't change as much as we wanted or not, Toyotaro at least tried to insert the "strenght isn't everything" element into Super *way* better than any half-assed strategy or character gimmick we ever saw in the ToP.

[@zenithpath8707]

@@succubastard1019 Moro sadly lately has been fighting more like a normal generic DBZ character. Like when was the last chapter he use he's absorption?

[@johnnygyro2295]

Yeah... If Dragon Ball ever gets a reboot/retelling, it has a multiverse so it's possible, I could see the scale being toned down somewhat. For example, instead of being the strongest mortals in the universe, Freeza and his family are just the strongest in our Galaxy. That would give more room to work with.

[@johnnygyro2295]

@Wrath Incarnate Yeah, turning the multiple universes into galaxies would make a more unified universe. One that has plenty of room for action and adventure. As for the alternate timelines, I would make Time Patrol canon to help manage/reduce the number of them for less headaches.

[@RobertJones-bs9pf]

"You thought what? No, I'm just *a* god. Really its more a hobby than a job. I only do this on weekends. Things have gotten hairy, so go talk to my boss. He's the real God. The most powerful being in the universe! That I'm allowed to know about." -Dragon Ball, at least five times

[@m0002856]

Pretty sure the answer to "What does Yamcha's line mean?" is that Toriyama probably just forgot he existed like Lunch.

[@bearmanscave3289]

Dangit I was hoping to hear your opinon on the Tenshinan vs Krillin debate. I am not a huge fan of power scalling either but this match up is one of the few that actually can be debate-able. Though for me I personally think that the only reason it is a debate is because of this Yamcha line. And ofc Super very clearly favoring Krillin in this argument

[@animaticlunatic9259]

Lets not use super please. That show has hate boner for Tien.

[@goldgunscantshoot973]

Krillin started performing better during the Saiyan saga though

[@rafacandido9501]

I don't even know why so many people accept this Yamcha claim on face value. As far as we know, even if he was being serious instead of just trying to cheer the kid up, that's just his opinion. Why is his opinion so important on who is the strongest? Or better yet, what does he even know? Nobody saw Tenshinhan for 7 years. While I do think these "who is the strongest?" discussions are valid, using a character’s potentially ignorant opinion as an argument sounds very weird.

[@pentelegomenon1175]

You can easily deduce his opinion here, from the mocking tone that he takes on whenever suggesting that Krillin has a chance. I take the opposite view, by the way.

[@SaiyanHeretic]

@@goldgunscantshoot973 Debatable. Tien's Tri-Beam against Nappa didn't accomplish much because he was already severely injured. Krillin's real strength is in being clever and his Destructo Disc was a threat because it was a more concetrated technique, like the difference betweenbeing sprayed with a garden hose versus an industrial cutting nozzle. Fast forward to when Tien lays a smack down on Semi-Perfect Cell. It might not have caused lasting damage, but the raw force of his Neo Tri-Beam was at least enough to keep Cell at bay a while. You trying to tell me you think Krillin could have accomplished even that much? Tien also pitches in against Buu, in his limited capacity by this point, whereas Krillin definitely does nothing during the entire storyline. Japanese fans just love Krillin and hate Tien, which isn't surprising. Krillin is the more fun character, while Tien stopped being relevant when he stopped being a prick.

[@pokesonav]

What if Toriyama arranged combatants first and THEN realized that "Hey! They're in alphabet order!

[@MistareFusion]

That would be hilarious.

[@najadamu2724]

I like how Viz sometimes translated Kaioshin as "Lord of Lords"; it's just funny. And now, where we're at in DBS, I wouldn't be surprised if they introduced ANOTHER god above even Zeno (the so-called "King of Everything")...

[@cyberninjazero5659]

I can't wait to meet Mechanical Hands!

[@42Caio]

I think Toriyama's new additions to the god roster in recent years at least made it make a lot more sense than it used to. Like the clarification that the Kaioshin create life. We knew that the Kaio oversee the universe and the things happening in it (or at least are supposed to, Kaio doesn't seem particularly good at his job..), but we were never told what the Kaioshin do. The idea that they create life and planets, and that they have a Hakaishin counterpart who destroy life and planets to keep a balance is very to my liking. I do have a problem with Zeno, he is basically a rehash of Beerus both in power (erasing things) and role (a non-malicious deity that poses a threat due to their temper), I assume because Beerus ended up slipping into a friend/mentor role, but at the very least I don't think Toriyama will introduce a being above the King of All who stands atop the entire multiverse. ... I hope.

[@johnnygyro2295]

If he does, my guess is that it would either be Zarama/Zalama, the guy who created the Super Dragon Balls, or Tori-Bot.

[@NicholasRSims]

Someone on Tv tropes explained Piccolo’s forefitting the fight with Superme Kai is because it would be like a regular guy ask to fight the Pope even if the Pope’s is OK with it

[@ssjduelistDD]

Yeah, I'd still argue Piccolo could have even won that fight.

[@vazak11]

I'd fight the pope. Happily.

[@AxelsAndGears]

Yamcha, in his infinite Fred powers, already knew Tien was from the Triclops alien race, so he doesn't count as an Earthling.

[@ms.antithesis]

i love this series, can't believe it's been going on so long

[@brianford4914]

I liked the idea that a God who is supposed to be strong but has no idea how strong Goku and his friends are and he is the only one taking the threat seriously while the Saiyans are treating it like a game but I just don't know why they had to add a Surpreme Kai. I Think it could have worked for a direction of the King Kais. Maybe The strongest of the King Kais appears (West, East, South I don't care which) and Kami realizes he is the strongest of the Kings and backs down and the new King Kai talks with Goku about how maybe Boo and Babidi destroyed his galaxy and is coming to the North Galaxy next. I don't see why we needed a True, true, TRUE God to be introduced.

[@Corredor1230]

Shin should've been some kind of heavenly monk or something like that. By being a monk or a sort of spiritual non-godly figure, he could still know about Boo, scare off Piccolo by being a sort of stuff of legends, be connected to the spirit world, and perhaps tie the whole story to the Japanese traditional iconogrpahy in heaven. He could've looked like a buddhist monk or something, without actually being buddhist or anything.

[@JohnWilliams-wl9px]

Much better

[@alberthcuayla1587]

Next Time on DBZ, Coffin Dance on Videl Protagonism...

[@KaiserMattTygore927]

:(

[@adambriton5394]

Overloading on God's? Wait til 2030 and your reviewing super

[@mielthesquid6536]

Money on the table he will never do it. It would be a total waste of his time.

[@AlexanderMartinez-kd7cz]

if super lasts until 2030 lol

[@sunwukong5518]

If he wants to continue doing Dragonball after the original series ending I think he will do GT first

[@austinraymond9136]

@@sunwukong5518 gt has no manga tho

[@rynobehnke8289]

@@austinraymond9136 I mean he could dedicate DBDTV episodes to Gt and doesn't touche Super until he did all of GT.

[@Heartbrayk.]

Lance is going to rip this entire arc apart... I can't wait.

[@omnimonramone8459]

I saw GT before I had seen all of Z. Shin/Kibitokai REALLY didn't strike me as anything more than a panicky Ally.

[@nightbaron7444]

The episode quiz : Guess how many times Lance says the word "god"

[@BomberDX97]

25?

[@toomex91]

I realize that we will have a lot of fighting in the arc, but I couldn't get over one thing. Why couldn't Piccolo and Kaioshin actually have a fight? Is it really necessery for Piccolo to cower before Kaioshin? They could have actually have some interesting fighting and exchanging dialogue while fighting before Piccolo resiged. That could give the reveal more buildup, and actually show more character of both. It would also make Piccolo look less like a wimpy Kami-copy or, even worse, like Yamcha. Yamcha at least attempted to fight god. (And Piccolo has no gonads to hit him in so he would probably keep more dignity taking Kaioshin head on)

[@MaxIronsThird]

It's even worse because Piccolo is supposed to be stronger than Shin.

[@frappompi]

Yeah I always get mad when they cuck Piccolo, I don't care if he's not as strong, I just want to see him having a decent fight, damn it!

[@fightingmedialounge519]

No one saying it doesn't make sense. Just that it's disappointing.

[@Morgil27]

One quick correction: According to Super, Shin wasn't actually an alias; it's his actual name. Granted, that wasn't known when the Buu arc was first published.

[@_.Lucifer_Lightfall._]

I quit my job just to watch this. :D EDIT: I love that we got to see the fruits of your Japanese language training in this episode! I'm a real linguaphile so I ran in a frantic circle like a little kid. :D

[@flaco3462]

i never actually thought about how piccolo freaking about Shin was actually Kami's influence that's pretty funny i wonder if you're ever gonna take a jab at all of the slight variations and subsidiary transformations of super saiyans i think i counted like eleven of them

[@DragonBallSuperDope]

I think about this Kaio conundrum all the time.

[@whiz8569]

Eh, I don't know. While I agree adding more and more gods was probably just a symptom of power creep, it at least makes sense within its lore, given that the Dragonball afterlife is based on the complicated bureaucracy angle especially found in Journey to the West. Not as clever or intentional of a reference as giving the ogres in the afterlife tiger-striped pants, but it's still logical within the world.

[@trainmaster997]

Honestly, I think the grand kaio thing could’ve worked in the manga- if they just planned it out a bit. Think about it: The manga, a few months in advance, makes a few scant references to this crazy higher level god. As it gets closer to the kaioshin reveal, it builds up this mysterious god, this “grand kaio”, even more. This god that our current gods all answer to, who is on an entirely different level. This crazy, ultra powerful, implied to be a terrifying yet odd god that they keep teasing. And then Kaioshin appears, and goes “Oh no. That guy answers to me.” On one hand, it could work as a fabulous “oooooh shit” moment. They build up someone, so we have the context, and then the rug is pulled out from under us, and we realize that even the big terrifying ultra god isn’t enough for whatever the upcoming threat. It would give proper context for piccolo’s freakout too- we would be appropriately stunned as well, that this isn’t just this big grand kaio they’ve been teasing. It would be like the moment when Raditz reveals that he’s the weakest of the 3 Saiyans. He was already built up and terrifying, and “holy hell the WEAKEST one was this bad?? We’re screwed” works well as intimidation in my opinion. And then everybody watching the anime would be laughing their asses off. Because now, they actually know how the grand kaio is like, and seeing all this buildup and mystery for this old grandpa who is nowhere close to our current heroes’ levels would be hilarious. And then, when Kaioshin shows up, it works as a sign of things actually getting serious, needing more than just that old grandpa to step it. We get the best of both worlds- for people who haven’t watched the anime, it’s an appropriately mind blowing and intimidating moment, seeing this mysterious figure not even be enough for whatever this story turns out to be. For those who have watched the anime, it works as a really good gag that wouldn’t hinder Kaioshin himself being intimidating. It would also need toriyama and the anime team to actually plan things out, but hey, it’s cool in concept

[@browncow5210]

I can just imagine the TFS interpretation of Supreme Kai getting into Piccolo's head while Nail and Kami are up there.

[@godemperorofmankind3.091]

i think it would have been funny if Kaioshin spoke a god language nobody could understand besides king kai, and everyone's like "huh? wtf?" and follow him to babidis ship only because theyre curious what the hell he even is.

[@numburger]

I love how obvious Piccolo and Supreme Kai's and by addition Kami's aliases are. Shin/Shen (神) is just the Japanese word for God , which is where the name "Shen Long" comes from, literally meaning "God Dragon" using Chinese readings. Ma (魔) is just Demon, hence his name "Ma Jr." just means Demon Jr. Like they were just barely trying lmao

[@DeepDiveDevin]

My dad really hates Shin because of how long we waited for him to do shit only to never fight

[@gvi341984]

-Kais are mythological beings rarely seen -Kai setup is different per universe -Angels are in charge of the balance and meddling level -universe 7 has a low mortal level because of the Kai situation -grand supreme Kai is in Buu therefore he's not dead -gods represent Japanese Shinto levels

[@shenanigans8353]

Introducing the gods of gods of gods and the main villain being created from magic to explain why he is stronger than villains that came before, you can really tell toriyama was reaching his breaking point with having to constantly make everything the biggest and baddest thing ever 7:14-7:40 I hadn't even considered that piccolo's for a lack of a better word eccentric reactions to things in the boo arc was due to kami still having influence over him huh

[@superpaytonmars8852]

Krillin: gives up fighting twice and consistently gets his ass kicked. Notably was one of Super buu's first chocolate victims albeit through willing self-sacrifice. Tien: has never stopped training since his introduction and does consistently better in most fights. Notably survived encounter with super buu albeit mostly by circumstance. I personally think Tien is stronger. I do give props to Krillin though, he deserves them for being such a loyal bro.

[@PabloNeves26]

We got the bootleg versions of the Super Butouden games for the SNES here in Brazil back when we hadn't even finished watching the Red Ribbon saga, so I kinda got to know a bit about super saiyans, Kaiou-Shin, Majin Boo waaay before a lot of stuff... wish I hadn't...

[@dvader518]

Anyone ever think that Toriyama is a better character and creature designer than a writer? Also, “gods can do anything” is the equivalent of Joe Quesada saying “It’s magic. We don’t have to explain it.”

[@konrack1955]

Another great video! I never saw that quote from toriyama. makes sense with how the series has transformed into gods of destruction and angels. Very excited to hear your take on Majin Vegeta!

[@codystork3008]

I do wish that stories that use random selection for tournament arcs would occaisionally do subversion matches like Goku vs Vegeta round one has the potential of being in this arc. Because if your random selection is according to traditional seeds why didn't the author just seed it tradtionally? And I think Goku vs Vegeta is a good matchup to have early if Gohan is supposed to beat Goku in the finals which is what fans probably assumed would happen at the time. unsatisfying to have Goku and Vegeta not fight one another when they are in the same tournament and are not on the same team.

[@whiz8569]

I like the little editing at 4:35 Always appreciate the more visually interesting segment every once in a while in these videos.

[@mechajay3358]

For an interesting concept as introducing the God Hierarchy, it gets really complicated to follow.

[@ritster21]

Krillin was also too scared to fight Trunks and Goten. Even with No SSJs allowed. Poor Krillin. Decades of training only to be invalidated by 2nd graders.

[@Humorless_Wokescold]

He's used to it by now.

[@ritster21]

Julian Francisco Yeah. That’s why he didn’t want to fight Base Goten and Trunks.

[@ritster21]

Andre Ricardo Bryant They rival Android 18.

[@ritster21]

Andre Ricardo Bryant They did way better than SSJ Android Saga Vegeta. Trunks was actually handicapped. He was essentially fighting with his legs strapped onto a flying chair that he has no control over and he could only punch. He STILL did way better than Vegeta.

[@ritster21]

Andre Ricardo Bryant She wasn’t fighting seriously against Vegeta either. And Trunks with his legs strapped on a in controlling flying chair STILL did better than Vegeta.

[@ew275x]

Toriyama blew his load way too early and nowadays Freeza would likely be the weakest of the Seven Warlords of the Galaxy. He couldn't resist just massively upping the threat level with Freeza which is weird because by the end of the Saiyan arc, it turns out the villains were flunkies.

[@AlexanderMartinez-kd7cz]

he does have a serious premature escalation problem. he literally introduced 11 universes and used the strongest people in them in 2 arcs lol

[@fightingmedialounge519]

Honestly, he problem do the same thing today.

[@TurtleCraftZ1]

1:37 Interestingly enough, this worked out in the end when a databook revealed Mr. Satan's real first name is Mark. Obviously this wasn't something that was planned from the start, but I do have to wonder if this was coincidental or if it was a callback to the way he was alphabetized in this arc.

[@maximillianomartinez]

Damn, now I know what its like to wait for a DBD. But you make patreon reward a lot worth it.

[@cheapR1]

If they wanted to give him a alias I think Piccolo had the choices of "Namek", "Nail", and "Kamiccolo". Especially the last two

[@spartanq7781]

Kamiccolo would have worked. It was a fused name Goku uses last arc for a joke but here it would work well for an alias. Anything is better than the one alias he used and revealed his identity as a feared villain. The fact that no one even stops to think "wait a minute" proves how dumb the earthlings are.

[@comet30265]

Dude thank you for changing the intro holy crap this one is WAY BETTER. Awesome video man

[@PokeHokage]

Can't wait for him to get to the grand supreme kai

[@jungshin87]

yamcha doesn't consider that 3 eyed freak as an "earthling"

[@PrimeroJinJusuke]

I doubt Yamcha would even know about that "origin".

[@Ethanasia]

Seeing a new DBD in my inbox is like waking up on Christmas morning. Thanks!

[@Billyblue98]

4:17 The way I like to go about this is that after the Namek Arc Krillin did in fact pull ahead of Tien thanks to Guru unlocking his potential which was more effective than training with King Kai, and Krillin maintained this lead in the Cell Saga, though honestly you'd be forgiven for doubting that though since neither of the two do anything that can be compared to each other (The Neo Tri-Beam aside) there's really no telling what the balance is between them However, now that Krillin is said to have been slacking, and Tien is who knows where right now, he's probably pulled back ahead of Krillin at some point during these seven years.

[@SSJerry]

I don't agree with everything of your Dissections, but man I love your work and analysis 👏. Keep it up!

[@Car_D_Board]

I love coming back to this one

[@Dante...]

The next part is going to be... interesting to say the least.

[@Soynereh]

Now I'm thinking what if Toei's Grand Kai was the one in Shin's role xD It could've worked! Maybe!

[@spartanq7781]

They should have just made him the Grand Kai or remove that echelon all together but the anime had him and now Toriyama suddenly cares about continuity with it. As if that wasn't enough we find out shortly that they're were other Kaioshins from different quadrants of the galaxy. Even though there are already Gods pertaining to each quadrant that we just got told about. Then they're is a old Kaioshin. Then modern Dragon Ball adds even more why? Hell it evens adds God forms for whatever reason.

[@Cyulyk01]

A day where MistareFusion uploads a new DB Dissection video sure is a good day!

[@pumascda19]

1:49 Here is a South American (Chile) watching your videos, always and I think many speak Spanish

[@samueloak1600]

Aquí un español

[@pumascda19]

Que bueno , sabia que habia mas habia hispana

[@samueloak1600]

@@pumascda19 Sep, son buenos vídeos. No he visto este nivel de análisis y trivia en los de habla hispana, aunque haya creadores interesantes también.

[@flaco3462]

i also come from chile but whenever i have to speak spanish i freeze up and cant remember how to speak it properly i do understand it completely though

[@pumascda19]

@@samueloak1600 es que es una tarea titanica, analizar el manga completo, y detenerse muchas veces, en detalles minusculos, y eso es lo interesante de mistarefusion

[@KaiserMattTygore927]

I had no issue with Krillin being seen as the strongest human, since Tien failed against the Saiyans (where Krillin was the last man standing, literally) couldn't go to the power escalation fest that was Namek, and only had one real moment of prominence in holding off cell before being forgotten about again.

[@ZipplyZane]

The best way I could make this make sense would be for there to be some restriction why the superpowerful being can't act. Like they could fight for fun in a tournament, but they can't do anything directly of consequence for some reason--maybe as a truce with other gods, maybe as just some part of their divine nature, maybe because of some action they did in the past, and so on. You also could have the god not actually be physically strong in a fight, but powerful in other ways. And those other ways being why Piccolo doesn't want to fight them. Like, yeah, I might be able to beat him in a one-on-one fight, but then, with a snap, he could completely turn my fate into one of suffering for eternity. You could also have them be restricted because they can't limit their power enough. They're so strong that they can't hold back enough to not like nuke an entire galaxy, something they don't want to do. That the only way they can interact is to put themselves in some weaker form that other could beat. And all these restrictions could be hidden, so Piccolo doesn't know how weak they are. Or it could be reverence if he's lost his entire Demon King identity. Like he won't beat him because it would be wrong. In short, there are a lot of ways to make it work. Pity Dragonball didn't (as far as I know) use any of them.

[@horaciosi]

This talk of gods reminds me of that scene from the Spongebob episode "Procrastination" where he asks the mailman who delivers his mail. "So, are you your own god or do you have your own personal god? But then who's his god? Is there a never-ending chain of gods being the deities of other gods? Well I guess a creator god could in theory break the chain..."

[@nicholassims9837]

Dont you have an essay to write ?

[@fenomozo9108]

The hierarchy of the gods is so convoluted that i only released the importance of Shin on Dragon Ball Super when Bills said that the death of Shin would result in the death of Bills. Back then i didn´t get that Shin was the god of creation. The introduction of the old kaio only adds to the confusion. And on top of that, in the spanish dub they rarely say Kaioshin and instead they refer to him as "Supreme Kaio-sama".

[@theboihilbirt1277]

Weird in latin version we're use many ''-sama'' as complete name (happen same Kami-sama and Kaio-sama) and not honorific as japan used. They're actually can call him Lord Supreme Kaio as more current translation. In DBS modern dub, while still use ''-sama'' as complete the mentions characters. Beerus or Whis never reference as ''-sama'' but as Mister. Only happen with Zeno reference by this honorific.

[@fenomozo9108]

@@theboihilbirt1277 Sí, también me refería a la versión latina. Dije española porque pensé que sería más claro para los que hablan inglés. Pero sí, es raro que el doblaje de DBZ usara el "sama" como parte del nombre completo.

[@The_One_In_Black]

Krillin had a baby with a woman who has literally limitless energy. Draw your own conclusions about his training.

[@ssjduelistDD]

Tbf training with 18 could have given Krillin the edge over Tien.

[@hunterguzenski2443]

I’ve often thought if Toriyama retread Goku’s roll in the 23rd tournament here the forward motion would work a little better. If Goku was sent back to earth for one day by Supreme Kai under the guise that it was Baba, to try and keep an eye on the possible Majin Boo plot. Keeping the story from Gohan’s perspective and seeing Goku not worried about Supreme Kai being there (who shows up because he was nervous about Goku succeeding) would keep Gohan as a main character while making Goku’s strange behavior and Shin a red herring. Then once the Videl fight and Gohan being drained happen and Goku and Shin lead the team into action the suspicions will be validated and would still leave Gohan as the main focus for the earthlings because Goku is mixed up with the Gods. This would give more credence to Goku’s roll of wanting everyone else to take care of the situation (ie gotenks) but now with even more credibility. Idk if that makes sense, but lemme know what you think. I know this would take the wind out of the sails of Vegeta’s reentrance at the end with being brought back by the Gods to help, but this would allow Gohan to be more focused and even Goku’s knowledge of the Gods could lead him to suggesting the Gods train Gohan to handle Boo. When Gohan gets beaten down by Boo Goku can raise his power to alert boo to the supreme Kais planet to distract him and fight boo while Gohan recovers again and if you wanted to end the fight with a spirit bomb by goku to lead to oob you could or a spirit bomb started by goku helmed by gohan as a call back to the saiyan arc to end the series. Goku fends off boo in vegetas roll and passes the torch by way of the genki dama to gohan. Idk 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@lyubot.9138]

That intro gag is so spot on lmao

[@JoeNeutrino]

And this is where the Buu arc begins its long series of establishing characters and events which lead to dissatisfying non-resolutions. Supreme Kai is initially mysterious and imposing, mostly as a result of Piccolo's reaction to him, but turns out to be impotent and becomes yet another character whose role is merely to create astounded reaction shots at how strong the Saiyans are. Some people defend this by saying it's a "subversion" (I'm so sick of that word) for the purpose of comedy but when you read/watch the story I think it's clear that it isn't. There's nothing funny about and I don't think it's trying to be.

[@galacticspecter4364]

Too Many Cooks but it’s Dragon Ball gods

[@Acerthorn]

8:14 "And if you didn't think I could take a single line of dialogue and analyze it for the rest of the episode ... you've clearly never seen Dragon Ball Dissection before!"

[@vazak11]

Solid vid, tons of great insights I never noticed before, kudos!

[@beauferret5414]

Because Dragon Ball is a story about escalation, I didn’t mind that Dragon Ball kept featuring higher levels of gods, each one with a bigger jurisdiction. Goku had surpassed Kami Sama; the god of Earth and became the strongest man in the world. He then surpassed Kaio Sama; the god of the universe and became the strongest man in the universe by defeating Freeza. With the Majin Boo arc, I thought it made sense for Goku to meet and (already) surpass the god of all the gods. I thought that it also drove in how much of a bigger threat Majin Boo would be. Because Kaio Shin was not fazed by Freeza’s reputation, but he is worried about Boo. It said to me that while Freeza was the strongest being in this universe, Majin Boo was the most threatening being in all the universes. I also thought that it was good of the Boo arc to go more into the world of the Kaios than the other arcs had done. I admit though that the manga did not do a good job of introducing all the other Kaios as the anime counterpart did. I still think that Piccolo should've become Earth's god instead of Dende. That might've been funny when Krillin was praying and Piccolo is standing right there.

[@sumerapaleema610]

Krillin: Please God. Don't make me fight one of my friends. Piccolo: I'm right behind you, you know. 🤣

[@JosefDerKaiser]

Having Gohan fight crime would solve that problem, as while it would be easy to beat them, he can"t kill them (as expressed in the Cell arc), can't be everywhere at once (Goku never taught him teleportation) and needs to protect people. I think a Piccolo Daimo level threat would even work because it would be hard for someone even as strong as Gohan to prevent large scale death in an urban area.

[@sumerapaleema610]

With how this arc is much more on the silly side, I don't see how Toriyama couldn't have given Toei's Grand Kai Shin's role and avoid having to retcon their story by having Goku recognize him. He proved almost a decade ago that goofy old people like Roshi could be convincingly serious when they need to be. Then Shin could be saved for his debut as the God of Creation modern Dragon Ball portray him as. However, I think either saving Piccolo questioning him who he is for later or downright removing it would be necessary. I think it'd be cool to see them fight, have Grand Kai win, and then learn he's Goku's new martial arts master.

[@mariofesse5557]

You could say it gOD out of hand (love your content thanks for putting it out)

[@SimplyStapha]

You literally just blew my fucking mind. You know how Supreme Kai enters the World's Martial Arts Tournament under the name "Shin"? I always thought it was so random. Like a completely random name he picked for himself. But it's not. It's just a shortened version of Kaioshin. That's what the Kais are called in the Japanese. Why did I never put this together by myself? I'm 23!?

[@BagOfMagicFood]

Probably because "Shin" doesn't sound much like "Supreme!"

[@Ineedgames]

Seeing how Japan is all about gods are in everything. It kind of makes sense.

[@Mr.Lubbox-Lobsterlegz1]

2:46 lmao Goku vs Tien, gotta love classic Dragonball fights

[@SaiyanHeretic]

Since when do a dude with three eyes that can grow extra arms and an immortal vampire baby (?) count as "normal guys"? Yamcha is definitely the most "normal guy" out of the Dragon Team's Four Amigos, since even Krillin is called out in-fiction for having no nose. Krillin is just more likable and fun to read.

[@MistareFusion]

Since when? Since the moment they existed in the Dragon Ball world where cats are sages, pigs drive cars, houses can fit in the palm of your hand, and people zipping around on magic clouds is something old guys can look at and go, "Oh, yeah, I remember when everybody used to do that." Three-eyed guy is absolutely normal.

[@TwilightWolf032]

Oh man... just wait until he gets to the Gods of Destruction...

[@yeetleslaw8529]

I have to make a comment on the gods thing. I always assumed it was reference to journey to the west. Since the Gods of dragon ball reflecting the bureaucratic government of the Taoist gods. But maybe I gave Toriyama too much credit. Because that's exactly what happened in super.

[@SonGara]

As someone who's always invested in the lore of whatever I'm into, I was ecstatic the first time I saw that more gods were introduced because it meant more lore building and more mysteries to ponder. Where's your sense of wonder Lance? Jk lol

[@The_One_In_Black]

I had been thinking that having King Cold beat Trunks would fix some of the issues of that scene, but listening to your breakdown after the fact here, it sounds like that would only exacerbate a problem that is already introduced by Trunks and Goku's dick-measuring contest. Now I want to go back and check if that scene was a Toei addition.

[@danielsipes4474]

Yay! New episode of DBD

[@spartanq7781]

Said every Mistare Fusion fan.

[@MrDariox555]

I agree that the power-creep aspect of the introduction of Kaioshin is absurd and a detriment to the series, but it feels right at home when you see the divine hierarchy as a representation of the administrative bureaucracy, particularly of eastern countries. There is always someone higher, and, more ofthen than not, people on lower levels don't even know about the guys two or three levels up. I once saw in Uni a diagram of the process that the chinise goverment has in place to buy weapons for the military, and it's efing crazy. And it's like that for most things. It's the same thing some Godzilla movies poke fun at. The eastern bureaucracy is both complicated and huge. This parallel isn't even new. It's the same concept behind the celestial judge guy.

[@MistareFusion]

I do love that idea. For example, I love it in how it's portrayed with Enma Daiou and his salaryman ogres. Unfortunately, that's the only time such an idea is ever invoked. I don't ever get the impression there's ever any joke with the rest of them. They simply exist, with barely any characterization or established role, in order to be the next martial arts trainer or something. They're simply disposable power-ups. I don't think there's any actual concept of an inept bureaucracy. I wish there was!

[@MrDariox555]

@@MistareFusion maybe you are right and I'm just seeing what I want to see haha. It just felt like it made sense

[@MistareFusion]

@@MrDariox555 Not at all! How you view and interpret the text is up to you and just as valid as any other reading.

[@ryutsubohachi5615]

Akira Toyama sure didn’t think this arc threw he must been really trying too rush it out a lot of plot holes in this arc it seems he tryingbtoo rush things so they could just let them fight

[@bgvo4373]

Another thing to note about Kaioshin is that he mentions later that he and the Kaioshins were much stronger than Freeza, and he only mentions this not to show how strong he is, but to show how strong Buu is compared to Freeza. I really wish they’d show proof that Kaioshin is that strong, since it not only goes nowhere, it also makes him look pathetic afterwards.