The Maturity of Son Goku - Dragon Ball Dissection: The Majin Boo Arc Part 17!

[@MistareFusion]

As you may or may not know, the powers that be have taken issue with my using Dragon Ball music in the opening. I suppose that's certainly their right. As a result, I have made the difficult choice to replace the opening music in most of The Boo Arc videos with a new, KZbin-friendly piece. I hope you like it. As a compromise, I have retained the original music in a few select Boo Arc videos scattered across the arc. For those who miss the original, follow this link to the opening as I uploaded it in 2020. Thanks so much for your support! kzbin.info/www/bejne/gH-9lYmQfMSfmK8

[@xerxBreak]

i would add that the halo really brings SSJ3's design together, it actually feels kinda lacking without it

[@LizardOfOz69]

I hate SSJ3's design either way. The hair is cool, but the forehead makes him look like a caveman.

[@ShaimingLong]

@@LizardOfOz69 Given the primal theme of Saiyans, the caveman aesthetic makes some sense at least. Seems Toriyama just had a thing for the boney eye brow design around that time since Buu soon adopted it.

[@LizardOfOz69]

@@ShaimingLong Oh, I'm not gonna argue it doesn't make sense, I just think it's ugly and dumb looking.

[@ShaimingLong]

@@LizardOfOz69 to be fair, while I wouldn't word it quite as harshly, I'm in agreement. The purpose of SSJ2's design was pushing past the limit of SSJ without the flaws of the typical bulking up. SSJ3 feels like it skirts past that idea a bit too much, being a somewhat big and bulky form. It also doesn't help that we have nothing behind the form to give it any gravitas or real back story. All we know is Goku got it off screen and it's "too powerful to sustain" Not knowing what caused him to push beyond SSJ2, why and how. It feels no different than if he found the cheat code password screen in Otherworld and just unlocked it that way.

[@sevach]

@@ShaimingLong Not quite, Vegeta's- "Super Vegeta" is still a useful powerup even if going further down that road leads to a dead end. Similarly SSJ3 is a useful powerup but though it also seems like it leads to a dead end(which is why we get a totally different chain of transformations in Super).

[@censoredterminalautism4073]

In this episode, Goku literally screams his eyebrows off.

[@locusstudioinc263]

Telogen effluvium, a type of alopecia responsible for hair loss related to stress, among other factors.

[@LSMMIKE]

Good video. Another thing to consider is that Goku and friends didn’t actually need the radar at all. That’s because Mr Popo was able to find the balls in less than a day during the fight on Namek. It seems that Kami and Popo have a magical means of finding them. It’s only natural to assume Dende and Popo could do the same thing.

[@yeetleslaw8529]

It makes sense they wouldn't need a radar, they did make the dragon balls.

[@Blasckk]

Taking into account that the Dragon Balls were active, they were found and used in the very short period between the first two wishes of Porunga (with which Kamisama revived and the Dragon Balls were activated) and the third wish at the end of the arc. I theorize that Mister Popo found all 7 balls in less than an hour or two.

[@billyreynoldsjr2229]

@Blasck Popo's flying carpet does get a thousand miles to the soul... err... gallon lol

[@MazaBLaze]

@@billyreynoldsjr2229 🤣🤣🤣 Ahh I miss TFS!!

[@EvanSol919]

But that would mean Dende was a competent god and Popo would have to be allowed to do something. Also I'm sure Toriyama forgot.

[@chepox69]

The "Goku not helping prevent Boo from happening in the first place" is just gonna get worse when he admits near the end of the saga that he knew he could deafeat Boo and that he lied when he said "he wasn´t sure".

[@Ahturos]

After he defeats Kid Buu or before he takes him on? Maybe the manga is diffrent but it seemed clear Goku would´t have been able too beat Buu SSJ3 alone.

[@chepox69]

@@Ahturos It happens bejore the fight with Kib Boo, but that doesn´t matter because he´s talking about the fat one.

[@reversalmushroom]

It also retroactively deflates the tension of his fight with Kid Buu if Goku could've always won and diminishes Buu as a villain.

[@bgvo4373]

@@reversalmushroom that’s the thing. I don’t think Goku could defeat Boo in any form. He seems to be overestimating himself when he says he probably could’ve defeated Boo before, and he seems aware of it. He avoids fighting even base pure evil (super) Boo when he asks to fuse with Vegeta, saying they’re still no match for Boo. His fight against pure Boo ends with his defeat, so really, Super Saiyan 3 is not only detrimental to Goku’s role in Boo’s revival, it’s really not that useful in actually beating Boo.

[@weshansen7892]

@@bgvo4373 fair points

[@alimowla3204]

ah yes, super saiyan grade 3, version 2, hair edition.

[@theeshaltnotpasseth1548]

And without eyebrows

[@KaiserMattTygore927]

Pretty much It kind of undercuts goku's battle intelligence from the cell saga where he intentionally skipped grade 2 and 3

[@theboihilbirt1277]

Actually Super Saiyan Grade 6 if you gonna be that exactly

[@alimowla3204]

@@theboihilbirt1277 i was more so just comparing its relevance to the story and the whole "it has such a huge drawback so why even use it?" aspect.

[@loftgaming5031]

Besides the ki drain the form was really good (before super that is)

[@Aust51989]

I liked how the anime added that it was Idosa and Ikose’s mother who rats Trunks out. It makes so much sense. Idk if Toriyama didn’t add it because of a page limit or he didn’t know who the rat was at the time, but it makes so much sense.

[@sumerapaleema610]

Honestly surprised to learn that was anime exclusive.

[@KaiserMattTygore927]

That was a really good follow up to the junior division story arc ngl.

[@joaocalixto1686]

That's not anime exclusive, she rats on him in the manga

[@Aust51989]

@@joaocalixto1686 what manga were you reading? I read the chapter, and she wasn’t there at all!

[@joaocalixto1686]

@@Aust51989 yeah I just checked it. I swear, I had a vivid memory of it being in the manga, I don't remember seeing that in the anime because I haven't watched the Boo Saga in ages. I guess I saw it during reruns of Kai and remember it as being part of the manga since I read it more recently

[@spinceiling7442]

I always felt that Goku showed a lot of maturity in this arc. He still makes mistakes but he seems to see things from a bigger perspective (one of my favourite scenes is his conversation with Vegeta about healing Buu after the fight is over). I can't understand people that say his character doesn't change in the series

[@snin3202]

Goku's character doesnt change and almost get reset only in super. If they say buu saga goku's character doesnt change...really ppl ??!! 🙄

[@RACH90810]

Mid age crisis

[@Maximus4587]

...and then _Super_ turned him into an insufferable manchild who only cares about getting stronger and fighting bad guys.

[@RACH90810]

@@Maximus4587 goku is an old man. Old man sometimes like a child and always forgetful. Only focus in one area.

[@RACH90810]

Do you have your elderly person in your family?

[@Chris-th5fl]

I do like how mature goku as gotten throughout in z. Felt like the universe of dragonball was wrapping up.

[@Blasckk]

"Z"? We don't do that here...

[@ViltrumiteIsRite99]

@@Blasckk lmao this channel is how I’m gonna read up on the Mangas.

[@Jose-se9pu]

It was.

[@Mike-xh2vm]

@@Blasckk exactly... There is no "Z* here only Dragon Ball.

[@spartanq7781]

@@Mike-xh2vm The Z sword counts right right?

[@randomfox12245]

I have always hated hated HATED how Toriyama retconned the state Gohan achieved against Cell as some new transformation that any sayian can achieve, with a spiffy numerical designation and everything. Because when it first happened, I never interpreted "SS2" AS a new transformation. To me it was clear that this was simply Gohan having finally awoken to his full potential. Him raging out and headbutting Radditz wasnt a new transformation, and neither was this. It was simply his full power finally being tapped into consciously and with full control. The original dub influenced my understanding of it perhaps (The narrator saying "Gohan has Awoken" always gives me chills) but the original text never acted like it was Gohan achieving some new transformation UNTIL this scene with Goku. It's so stupid and to this day I really chafe at referring to Cell games Gohan as "SS2 Gohan." Because to me, he's just normal super saiyan Gohan but with his latent potential finally unlocked. "Awoken Gohan" if anything. And the idea that other Saiyans can do that too is so stupid to me. The entire REASON Gohan was propped up as HAVING that latent potential is because he's a HALF saiyan! If anything, if we're going to say Super Saiyan 2 is a thing, it should be exclusive to half saiyans like Goten and Trunks! The idea thay Vegeta and Goku can do it too is inane to me! Did THEY watch an evil murderous artificial life form crush an innocent person to death under heel in order to unlock SS2 also? Goku naming it something silly, fine. But Goku being able to achieve the SAME THING as something that was SUPPOSED to be unique to Gohan infuriates me. God damnit Toriyama.

[@dinogt8477]

So a ssj has lighting effects?

[@yotomoe5953]

I think you hit the nail on the head. One of the biggest issues with Super Saiyan in GENERAL is their propensity to just giving it to characters off screen. That AMAZING emotional moment when Goku finally transformed? Naw, Vegeta can learn it off screen. Fuck it give it to Gohan and trunks too. That beautiful payoff of Gohan's entire arc of getting angry and unleashing his full potential? Naw turns out anyone can do that. Gohan's just the first guy to figure out how to do it. It basically Video game-ifys the characters where they're all just waiting to hit a certain level before they hit their evolved form. And it's all so unecessary. If you make strength based on powerups it gives off the idea that strength and technique are arbitrary and can only be earned by hitting the next level up.

[@jonmahashintina]

this makes the whole 'goku senses power beyond super saiyan' thing during the earlier bit of that story useless then.

[@AnAverageGoblin]

cope

[@AllMight6]

It was never more exclusive to gohan then ssj to goku he was the first to do it but it was never stated to being exclusive to him (hell ssj was probably even more shocking that goku wasn’t the only one) but ssj2 it oh goku and vegeta can do it now cool

[@NataliaNeeSama]

I think the little maturity Goku gained on the Buu Arc got totally lost in Super, which is a shame.

[@louisvictor3473]

Super is uncanon fanfic by numbers in my book.

[@paigeh7892]

No it didn’t. He manipulates freiza during the universe survival arc. And whenever he talks to goten he comes off as mature. He even has some nice dialogue with future trunks.

[@NataliaNeeSama]

@@paigeh7892 But he doesn't know how to kiss, pick a fight with the god of destruction, pick a fight with Zamasu, agree on a tournament with the fate of the universe in balance, and don't know how to look after his own granddaughter. He is basically an idiot in Super.

[@brandonlyon730]

@@paigeh7892 Yeah but at the same time he barely reacts much to the fact he is possibly responsible for the universe ending tournament in the first place by messing with Zeno about because he was bored. He barely cared that he could be responsible for multiple universes and trillions of people being wiped out of existence. And let's also not forget about the fact he unresponsibly forgot the important seal for the evil containment wave imprisonment for the immortal Zamasu, allowing the mad God to fuse with himself and eventually leads to future Trunk’s entire timelines universe to be erased for Zeno to permanently destroy him.

[@paigeh7892]

@@NataliaNeeSama kissing has nothing to do with maturity. And asking to spar with a god of destruction is just friendly competition. He’s not always mature sure but he didn’t lose what maturity he did have

[@asherzerbib3461]

Never realized how creepy Fat Buu could look with his eyes open until I remembered how he realized that "Babidi weaker than Buu" and offed him.

[@DBZMacky]

Maybe Goku just doesn't remember what Bulma's parents' Ki signatures feel like and that's why he couldn't teleport there? Even if that doesn't work, I guess Bulma and co. were just panicking too much to think straight during this part of the story.

[@XanderVJ]

This. Seriously, why does people always forget that Goku's teleporting is based on sensing the Ki signature of a person, not on thinking about a place? Heck, as far as we know, Goku doesn't know Bulma's parents Ki signatures. And even if he did, remember that Goku has problems earlier in the story looking for Bulma's Ki signature, since it is so low. I can easily think that an elderly couple of regular humans would be even harder than that. Honestly, the story has a lot of problems, but this ain't one of them.

[@ojpickle5923]

@@XanderVJ it's a problem because earth is populated by people all over. So even if he doesn't know what the parents feel like, as long as he knows the general location of capsule corp he can just teleport there and retrieve what he needs

[@XanderVJ]

@@ojpickle5923 That's... not how it works... Goku needs to know the ki signature of the person he's looking for. The best thing you can do is to point Goku in a general direction, but if everything you have is "look for humans westward" he could end up ANYWHERE in that direction. That was good enough when he was looking for namekians, since he just wanted to get to the planet. But not when you want to get to one specific city, specially while pressing for time.

[@PrimeroJinJusuke]

@@XanderVJ Even if he ends up in the wrong location, he can just fly to the house. He has been there at least three times, and two times by flying. It would still be quicker this way.

[@shocksconstant]

@@XanderVJ This all kinda falls on its head do to the characters being "beyond lightspeed" at this point anyway. Trunks should of been able to get there and back IMMEDIATELY even if Goku didn't go to hold off Buu.

[@brandonlyon730]

Adding to the dragon radar problem, they really didn’t need it since Mr. Popo is still there. And near the end of the Frieza arc when Kami was wished back to life he was able to find the dragon balls without any sort of radar and in a relatively quick time. So it would not be “impossible” to find the dragon balls since they still have Mr. Popo at this point.

[@spartanq7781]

He also has the magic carpet that could have brought Trunks to Capsule Corp instantly.

[@zwarrior28]

That is a good point. However I don't think Mr. Popo is really capable of finding the Dragonballs by himself, I believe that ability would only apply to Kami and Dende since they're the ones who are linked to the Dragonballs. During Goku's fight with Frieza on Namek, its obviously very likey that Kami was communicating with Mr. Popo telepathically so he could tell him the location of the next Dragonball. Plus seeing as how there was a gaurdian before Kami, its possible that Mr. Popo didn't know about the Dragonballs until Kami became the next current gaurdian.

[@EvanSol919]

How much do you want to bet that Toriyama forgot about that?

[@Guitarnetter]

Toriyama: I'm gonna introduce a new form for Goku! Everyone will think it is very cool for him in the fight against Majin Buu! MistareFusion: hold my beer....

[@diegodankquixote-wry3242]

*everyone who has ever read dragonball: hold my beer Seriously I never seen anyone like how the super saiyan 3 retcon weakens the story, even if they usually not very critical of dragonball's story.

[@RaggedyRed1]

Toriyama wrote himself into a corner. If Vegeta was his equal and blowing himself up did nothing, what realistic chance would Goku stand?

[@r.a.v.v.8613]

I still don't feel like SSJ3 needed to be introduced here, cause Goku's not going to defeat Buu anyways

[@spartanq7781]

@@r.a.v.v.8613 At least for now (couch couch.)

[@Plasma_Fuse]

Man Super Saiyan 3 would have been way more impressive against Vegeta, if only to tick him off further. Maybe I would care for it more if it was introduced like that rather than "uhhhh use it to distract Buu I guess".

[@roronoapedro]

There's a consistent theme of Goku's information retroactively updating so that he never lied to people, simply chose to say and do specific things in order to move things along that really grates when reading it all at once. Besides the fusion training timeframe. That one was just wrong.

[@PlanetZoidstar]

That's because Toriyama never allows Goku to be "wrong", even if he makes a mistake or gets something wrong - things will work out anyway so ultimately he was right all along. Like him throwing Gohan into the fight with Cell - Goku was meant to be wrong that Gohan doesn't like fighting - but oh wait no he was right all along. Gohan went SS2 anyway so Goku's big gamble worked out.

[@najadamu2724]

@@PlanetZoidstar And that's why he never learns from his mistakes. Because the universe always bails him out anyway. Goku must be the luckiest motherfucker in the Dragon World, because things always somehow work out in the end, no matter how reckless he is with the fate of the Earth and innocent people's lives.

[@PlanetZoidstar]

@@najadamu2724 Unlike Vegeta who is always punished for his mistakes. Or Gohan.

[@justbny9278]

@@PlanetZoidstar Vegeta takes 3 trucks 4 planet explosions and 20 bad guy beatings to change though

[@dinogt8477]

@@najadamu2724 goku ran straight to tambourine without thinking but later on in the cell saga you can see that goku stopped gohan from doing the same thing when piccolo got beat up by cell so he clearly learnt something

[@olserknam]

While Super Sayian 3 clashes thematically with the mentor theme Toriyama has going on for Goku here, it's at least consistent visually. I don't see people point this out often, but the long hair, the lack of eyebrows and the imposing look in his eyes all make SSJ 3 Goku look old, mature and experienced, like it's a form he's acquired after many years of training. You can almost see the toll it took on him.

[@tintor2]

Wait, what? I'm going to lose my eyebrows but never going bald?

[@AnAverageGoblin]

doesn't mean it doesn't look terrible

[@kmgyening]

​@@AnAverageGoblin It's the golden unga bunga form

[@kaialone]

Sorry if this is slightly off the rails, but the back and forth between Goku and Boo in this fight is also one of the things that always make me lament how Boo is often perceived as "just" completely immature and clueless, in no small part due to how the English Dub of the anime portrays him, intentionally making him less smart in places, even. Like Boo doesn't have a lot of lived experiences and isn't a very complicated dude, but he is a clever guy who pays attention to his enviroment and can quickly adapt to it, and intentionally so (In theory). That's probably part of why he an Goku hit it off so well here, in their own way. Not to jump ahead too much, but what Goku sees in Boo here will also become relevant again towards the end of course (not sure if Toriyama would've plotted out the basic outline of Boo's fate at this point, but yeah)

[@spinceiling7442]

I agree. Out of all the villains, I enjoyed Goku's relationship with Buu the most

[@orbboom6119]

There's a lot great chemistry between these buu saga characters... sad that now they're all charicatures of themselves.

[@Aust51989]

And you would think Bulma would have brought the radar with her when postpone the second wish. You would think, “oh we have to gather the dragon balls again after we defeat Buu. We should bring the radar with us.”

[@spartanq7781]

Everyone is an idiot.

[@craigime]

yeah toriyama was just making it up as he goes

[@Memo-yh4nc]

To be fair, the anime actually does fix this by having Bulma leave it in her van/bus thing, which the crew was using to drive around to collect the Balls, so it makes sense in that. But yeah, it’s weird that she left it in Capsule Corp in the manga with seemingly no mention of it being in the van. That would imply that before she called the dragon, she decided to take it back inside rather than just putting it in her pocket/purse.

[@mechajay3358]

Goku actually being mature and level headed is one of the highlights of the arc. But it is called into question when he has SSJ3 hidden the whole time and could've used anytime to solved the Buu problem.

[@fridaynightnicktoons6885]

I hate that in stories. It’s not the character it’s the writer (it’s called plot induced stupidity)

[@great159]

This is just one of MANY reasons why the Boo Saga is trash.

[@GMan873]

15:10 What are you talking about, spamming ki blasts is Vegeta's #1 signature technique! He sure does use it more than Flash Finale or the Bazinga Attack!

[@GMan873]

3:10 Toriyama's strong suit has always been comedy, especially when it comes to drawing goofy, exaggerated faces.

[@KataisTrash]

Wait, I just realized: Why is Goku's time limit for training the kids any problem at all to begin with? He can easily communicate from the afterlife, and King Kai can see what's going on. So why not just tutor them from the other side? Also, I'm wondering: what happens if someone from the afterlife tries to contact someone from the Room of Space & Time? I can't quite recall, but didn't that happen at some point?

[@brandonlyon730]

Not sure about the afterlife but later on Piccolo contacts them psychically outside the room of s&t when he was stalling as much time as possible with Super Buu.

[@sirnutaku7716]

This series has genuinely made me love dragon ball even more

[@dinogt8477]

Did it make you love the buu saga even more?

[@alfa01spotivo]

@@dinogt8477 yes

[@prometheusmodelow8322]

Same.

[@PhalanxKnight]

I always assumed the reason Goku didn't just teleport to Capsule Corp himself was because it required him to lock onto a specific person's Ki to work, and there isn't anyone I can think of in West City that would fulfil that requirement. My question is in what reality would Bloomers just not have had the radar on her in the first place? They must have used it to gather the Dragon Balls to bring those people back to life. When Kuririn got them all to evacuate, did she go "nah I don't need the Dragon Radar. Might as well just leave it behind"?

[@MaxIronsThird]

He needs to lock on on somebody, oooor know the place(if it's not a different planet).

[@PhalanxKnight]

Maxi Iroh Can he just know the place? I know in Super, he couldn’t just teleport back to Earth. He had to lock onto Gohan’s KI to be able to do it. I don’t remember them ever stating it worked without it locking onto someone’s KI.

[@MaxIronsThird]

@@PhalanxKnight did you miss the different planet thing?

[@PhalanxKnight]

Maxi Iroh No, I just wasn’t sure why that was relevant. I can’t think of an instance where Goku was able to teleport to another place on Earth without needing to lock onto someone’s KI first. Heck, in the Broli Super movie, he needed to lock into Piccolo’s KI just to get away from the fight.

[@craigime]

@@PhalanxKnight Goku already knows where capsule corp is- he can just fly there. the guy moves several times faster than light

[@sonicmariogaming2222]

*That's Vegeta's Technique!™*

[@danielquinlan2457]

One thing I want to say on Super Saiyan 3 is that while I like it on its own, I don't really like it on Goku. Not only does it present the narrative problems you bring up (including that it's going to come out that Goku straight-up lied about not being able to defeat Boo later), but it kinda goes against his balance-over-power shtick from the last arc. When Goku attained Grade 2 and Grade 3, he said those forms sucked ass and that the right path was to master the first, most balanced version of Super Saiyan. He eventually upgraded to SS2, but that one never really had any drawbacks that the unmastered Super Saiyan 1 didn't already have. Now he's using the most extravagantly powerful, least balanced form of the lot. If he wasn't happy with Grade 2 or 3, there's no way he'd be satisfied with this glorious mess of a power-up. So I kinda think that Toriyama should've saved Super Saiyan 3 for Gotenks, the immature, showoffy, yet hyper talented kid who probably doesn't even understand the concept of "balance".

[@prometheusmodelow8322]

Remember that he didin't realize about the actual drawbacks of the form (aside from it limiting his time in the living world) in a fighting context until he tried it out as a living person later on against Kid Buu, being dead he didin't lose stamina with the form quickly as he did when he was alive, and wasn't aware of that deawback as he is suprised about it when it prevents him from defeating Buu. What i'm saying is that it probably looked like a more balanced form for Goku when he was using it as a dead fighter, but i agree with what you're saying in the grounds that Goku never tried to improve upon it later, despite realizing the shortcomings.

[@danielquinlan2457]

@@prometheusmodelow8322 That's a fair point.

[@somedude3820]

What Goku didn't like about Grade 2 or Grade 3 was the drastic drop in speed they had. Super Saiyan 3 is both the fastest and strongest form of Super Saiyan in Z.

[@danielquinlan2457]

@@somedude3820 Goku also complained about the steep energy consumption regarding both of the Grade forms.

[@rhysjonsmusic]

Its probably save to say that Gokus "it'll take one week to learn the fusion technique" was just him underestimating Goten and Trunks

[@spartanq7781]

That doesn't make any sense. Why would he entrust the fate of the world on them then? There is also hardly anytime between then and now with no explanation for the flip flop.

[@yotomoe5953]

@@spartanq7781 "Why would he entrust the fate of the world on them then?" Because they're like...the strongest people alive right now? Unless Piccolo and Krillin somehow figure out fusion with their height differences there's not really a whole lot of other options right now. Keep in mind everyone is going with the assumption that Gohan is dead forever and Goku's on borrowed time.

[@vanjagalovic3621]

@@yotomoe5953 Yeah, but the whole Gohan is never coming back thing is pretty stupid already

[@yotomoe5953]

@@vanjagalovic3621 Oh for sure that's really stupid. But the whole "Gohan is apparently dead" thing is definitely meant to explain away why Goten and Trunks are getting so much importance in the plot.

[@markmorales7958]

Goku: “It’s time for the next generation to stand up against these world ending threats!” EDIT: DB GT: Ha! Nice JOKE.....! DB Super: I know right...?!?!

[@mrJLJ66]

End of the Buu arc: Get in line pal!

[@spartanq7781]

@@mrJLJ66 I really wish Toriyama stuck with that premise this arc. Honestly I wish he didn't abandon the Gohan is a superhero plot so suddenly. That should have been it's own arc. Then this arc should start with the pre tournament training to this point. That way it isn't wasted.

[@mrJLJ66]

@@spartanq7781 I agree, Gohan's high school mini arc (and the anime's filler otherworld tournament arc) were probably my favorite arcs in all of DBZ. I would have loved to see that arc end with Gohan fighting some supervillain or giant robot tiered baddie to tie it full circle to its sentai roots (and to give us time to miss Goku)

[@legendflames3827]

@@mrJLJ66 he does in super as great sayaman so atleast that's s thing

[@DemonicRemption]

@Mark Morales Why omit GT in that joke? I may love GT to death, but it made the same mistake by putting Goku in the spot light.

[@bobbybob4230]

A lot of people seem to hate Super Saiyan 3 because it "doesn't accomplish anything" and though I kind of agree with that, it seems that at this point Toriyama was trying to spice things up and not make things too repetitive. What happened in the Frieza saga? A new transformation gets talked about a lot, Goku finally gets it, and defeats Frieza. What happened in the Cell saga? A new transformation gets talked about a lot, Gohan finally gets it, and defeats Cell. So the pattern is already laid out for people to think that the Boo saga is going to be "Oh, someone is going to get a new Super Saiyan transformation and defeat Boo", so Goku just randomly showing it not even halfway through the arc at least goes to show that SS3 is not going to be the ultimate winner this time, and that is ultimately what happens. I'd rather have this subversion, which adds a different dynamic to this story, otherwise it just begins to feel repetitive.

[@justbny9278]

Not having another transformation at all though would achieve the same and wouldn't make the other Super Sayans transformations less unique as well Hell we wouldn't even have a "SSJ2" Apparently, just five stages of mastering the original Super Sayan form

[@bobbybob4230]

@@justbny9278 I do agree with that, having no transformations at all could have been interesting and maybe it would have been better. My point refers more to audience expectations: "How are they going defeat Majin Boo?", "Well, just a new transformation like with the two previous arcs!", and people probably would have expected it even if nobody ever mentioned a new transformation. It just seems to me that introducing SS3 like this was Toriyama's way of assuring the audience that this villain would be defeated in a different way.

[@yusiuc5533]

After reading many comments about Goku's maturity and changes from Z era to Super, I think Toriyama is an example of " death of the author" like George Lucas. With the long gap between the previous story and its sequel/prequel and the author's opinion on characters and/or story changes from the original direction. The changes itself does not inherently harm the craft, but if those changes contradict previously established canon then it will have the negative effect since there's no internal consistency. For example, what i consider a good retcon is the story of how planet Vegeta was destroyed. It was mentioned via character exposition by Raditz. Then it was retconned as a lie from Frieza and the audience was "shown" the destruction (detailed in anime special and from the victims perspective i.e Bardock, few panels in manga). Then again, Toriyama have already made so many contradiction in the manga runtime already.

[@EvanSol919]

Absolutely. This is an author who freely admits to being forgetful, not outlining his stories and changing his mind decades later. I go full death of the author for dragon ball.

[@sonicboomers122]

When Goku is so flippant about the death of innocent because Dragonballs. It makes caring about moral ethics murdering people really hard.

[@horaciosi]

(15:33) I love that menacing shot of Majin Boo finally getting fed up with Babidi's abuse so much.

[@sonicfan20]

My guess is that super saiyan 3 was introduced as build up to when Gotenks learns how to use that transformation too to go along with Gohan getting his ultimate state, assuming Toriyama had some original plan for both Gohan and Gotenks working together to beat Buu before derailing the story to have Goku and Vegeta save the day.

[@spartanq7781]

Gotenks didn't need Super Sayain 3 either.

[@najadamu2724]

I strongly doubt Toriyama thought that far ahead.

[@MaxIronsThird]

@@spartanq7781 Have you noticed that Gotenks doesn't even have SSJ2.

[@spartanq7781]

@@MaxIronsThird He has it but just didn't use it.

[@legendflames3827]

@@MaxIronsThird you need ssj2 for ssj3 so he just doesnt use it it's like trying to go super sayain god super sayain aka ssj blue without learning super sayain god

[@phillipcarson2544]

I love this version of Goku so much, it makes me hate Super's Goku all the more. Mature, forward thinking, almost manipulative Goku beats manchild Goku any day of the week.

[@paigeh7892]

Super Goku has shown he can be mature and forward thinking. He’s not always a man child

[@colmeiadaangela1026]

Something weird is how Toriyama gave Super Saiyan 3 eyes with pupils, but then he forgot about it, so it'll eventually lose then, making it's eyes look exactly the same as the previous transformations

[@Nightshadow998]

I"m kinda surprised that their was no criticism for the the fact that after all the trouble they went through to get the dragon radar and what it cost them that later events made getting the dragon radar completely pointless,

[@spartanq7781]

That's for another time.

[@XanderVJ]

The characters have no way of knowing that, and as discussed, the scene still moves the plot forward by Goku kick starting Buu's character arc. The radar is more of an excuse, and as they have already corrected in other comments, it makes sense in-universe. So no, it's not really pointless at all.

[@KaiserMattTygore927]

@@XanderVJ the problem is there are lapses in logic to make the radar relevant only for it to not matter anyway It's yet another example if this saga meandering around and wasting time

[@cuac232]

Here you are praising Toriyama's comedy and here I am raising yours. Your tone really makes these jokes work.

[@spartanq7781]

A human in the comment section this has never been done before.

[@theboihilbirt1277]

Something ask myself and others. Did you thinking Toriyama is more suit write a comedy series than fighting combat chinese sci-fi comedy? Because he's really better as gag series

[@Ouaddit]

I've always considered that having both Vegeta and Goku mastering SSJ2 was a mistake. It implies that if they had more training back in the Cell arc, they could have easily defeat Cell. It diminishes Gohan's achievement even so he's suppose to be the new hero, the one better than Goku and Vegeta. I'm sure the Boo arc would have been better with Goku and Vegeta at "SSJ grade 4" maximum.

[@craigime]

i don't think they could have easily defeated cell with just some more training... well it depends on how much training you mean. they had a limited time to train for the cell games. even with the hyperbolic time chamber, they had no more 2 years. the buu arc takes place 7 years after cell, so it's understandable that they can achieve the form now instead of back then

[@Ouaddit]

@@craigime that's what i'm saying when i say "more training". 2 years or 7, it really doesn't change anything, it's just an ellipse for us. When Gohan reaches SSJ2 it doesn't comes from nowhere : since his first introduction we saw him develop a bizare and hidden power that nobody else seems to posess. Goku say that direclty during the Cell arc, Gohan is unique, his power doesn't comes from training only. He was the only one able to defeat Cell... But actually not, everyone can do it. That's seems so easy.

[@kmgyening]

It does seem a bit odd to me that it took those two THAT much longer to figure out how to do it than Gohan. You know, the same Gohan who was the last to learn SSJ1 and didn't understand almost anything about Grades 2 and 3 until Goku explained it to him. Goku and Vegeta live to train and they couldn't figure it out sooner than the end of the Cell Games?

[@jju00]

Majin Boo (Fat Boo) is the main reason I always liked this arc. It's a child with a gun basically. He needs someone to teach him morals and to use that gun properly. It also helps that the chapter were Majin Boo saves Mr. Satan from Kid Boo is yhe first chapter I ever saw fully conscious of :D

[@BlueBlazeKing]

It’s not a child with a gun, it’s a child with a nuke

[@jju00]

@@BlueBlazeKing yeah lol

[@spritvio639]

6:51 Wow bulma that definitely a good reason. I mean it's not like there are a different set on another planet with green aliens or anything. Or someone on the lookout who tracked the balls already before.

[@gavinlucas9761]

I don’t care what people say about Super Saiyan 3. It is and still is my favorite Super Saiyan transformation, don’t judge me!

[@EmeralBookwise]

It's a better transformation than SS2. It certainly might not accomplish as much, but at the very least because it actually has a drawback it doesn't entirely invalidate all previous forms the way SS2 did. It's also a hell of lot more distinct, as opposed to SS2 which only ever looked distinct when Gohan originally used it against Cell. Honestly, SS2 really shouldn't ever have been a form at all. It should have just been Gohan's full power. since prior to "transforming" he explicitly says he's been holding back. It's leas that he goes from level-1 to level-2 in the fight against Cell, and more like he powered up from level-0.5

[@gavinlucas9761]

@@EmeralBookwise I agree!

[@randomfox12245]

Aesthetically, it's very cool looking Story wise.... The plot makes a lot more sense if you just... Kinda ignore it. Because it never accomplishes anything. Ever. Not even in Super.

[@randomfox12245]

@@EmeralBookwise exactly my thoughts. "SS2" originally wasn't a new transformation, it was just Gohan raging out and headbutting Radditz, but as a Super Saiyan and having full control over it at last. Retconning it into a new form has always been the worst thing about the SS3 scene.

[@EmeralBookwise]

​@@randomfox12245: technically the retcon came before that, when both Goku and Vegeta used SS2 in their fight against each other. It might not have been named yet, but it still meant it was now a generic form anyone could achieve instead of unique manifestation of Gohan innate potential.

[@freetime2freeminds]

My favorite goku, favorite Vegeta. Peak maturity and art style

[@CbsOmegaOmniX]

Indeed Goku revealing he can go Super Saiyan 3 after his fight with Vegeta doesn’t look good on him in retrospect. It’s kind of funny how after all the trouble Vegeta has caused Goku he seems to care more about (potentially not wanting to damage his pride) him than anyone outside of Vegeta’s own wife and son. Love him or hate him Vegeta did become Goku’s permanent rival and this inspired a number of future manga/anime rivalries. Interestingly enough the Buu saga was the first Dragon Ball saga I watched from start to finish although I can admit it has problems. Honestly I wouldn’t be surprised if SS3 is Toriyama’s least favorite Super Saiyan transformation if only for the fact that it is probably the biggest pain among them to draw much like why Cell is Toriyama’s least favorite of the three main villains. Of all the main line Super Saiyan transformations SS3 seems to be the most buried and forgotten, although as a kid I always thought it looked damn cool😄!

[@Videospiel-Man5730]

Up until now thae Only Rivalry of this sort i liked is Izuku(deku) and Katsuki probably because Katsuki didnt Murder anyone, is not evil but a Shithead and is really Funny!

[@yotomoe5953]

Honestly SS3 is my least favorite transformation. I dunno I prefer the more subtle transformations where the character feels "the same but different". Forms like SS3 and especially SS4 make me stop identifying with Goku because I have trouble recognizing him. He looks and feels like a new guy.

[@anotherfandom]

My favorite line was "aerobics tapes and sand". Kame house is a wellspring of resources.

[@krxxc.kk6]

I know this is random but your videos also help me practice reading furigana since you show raw manga pages

[@yotomoe5953]

I'm glad to finally see people talking about how mature Goku is in Buu saga. It's one of the reasons why I love this arc so much. It really feels like Goku has finally gone from "The eternal student" to a "master"

[@MaxIronsThird]

It seems the only thing you heard fro the video was this part.

[@yotomoe5953]

@@MaxIronsThird Naw, it's just not something I see a lot of people talk about. I'll take what I can get :P. Besides I really do love that about this arc, even if Toriyama fumbles the landing a bit.

[@seanwatzitooya6094]

Three things. 1. Goku turns super saiyan 3 and hits Vegeta. Buu instantly wakes up because that's massively more energy than two Super Saiyan 2s fighting. 2. Narratively, Super Saiyan 3 is a brilliant red herring. There's a reason it's the only Super saiyan 4 that gets no build up and isn't talked about beforehand. It fails every time it's used in the manga canon because it's a pointless transformation. 3. Thematically, Super Saiyan 3 furthers the idea that the next generation will be better. Goten and Trunks master it in no time to a degree that Goku didn't. It's their inexperience and lack of knowledge about how Fusion works that does them in. But they master the form, ALIVE, that Goku couldn't with the advantage of being dead. --------------------------------- With all that said, I'm also just way more forgiving on plot stuff because that's often the least interesting part of any fiction. Toriyama is brilliant at theming and character arcs. His plotting leaves much to be desired.

[@dwainfrett5385]

3:50 I loved this section of the story. Especially in the old funimation dub. The music matches very well. And they change Piccolo's dialogue to him ganging up on Goku as well. It just feels like in the series Goku is never there when you need him. He arrives when everyone is beaten up or dead. "You're supposed to be the strongest in the universe or something right? So why weren't you there? Why weren't you there to help Gohan...and my dad?" -Trunks

[@YossarianVanDriver]

Super Saiyan 3 at this point feels like it's being introduced so it can later be something Gotenks busts out as another of the many set-ups being, er, set up to pay off in the coming powerup-tennis match, I guess? Anyway I always thought it's a form that looks way better in motion, the hair swooshing around behind them as they fly around.

[@herik82]

that Goten and Goku moment always moves me

[@TheSoulExplorer]

I think the English nomenclature for the Super Saiyan levels could be related to the English nomenclature that Vegeta uses for his attacks. Apparently Toriyama wanted English names for Vegeta's attacks back in the Saiyan arc so he could write them in katakana, giving the audience a feeling of "outsider" or "not from this planet". So maybe he wanted the same for Super Saiyan. Awesome video, keep up the good work!

[@prometheusmodelow8322]

Just imagine, if Goku wanted to waste more time on Buu, he could have gone through all the 4 grades of the first Super Saiyan before going to 2 and 3.

[@Ineedgames]

Would have been a hilarious Team 4 Star moment. Bulma: "Why don't you just teleport to my place instead?". Goku: "No Time. Gotta Fight". *Teleports

[@DidgeridudeEX]

Instant Transmission *Pop sound effect*

[@kmgyening]

@@DidgeridudeEX Goku goes "Eeeee!"

[@Mepphy99]

"Goku has Always been fight centered he Always wanted to fight First, everyone else second" 18:45 EI YO DBS FANBOYS, WATCH THE ORIGINAL MANGA

[@bageltoo]

“Spouses tend to fill different needs than children... at least I hope so” *ahem* funimationleak

[@craigime]

huh?

[@the-aspiring-creator4249]

@@craigime Long time ago, Funimation crew members recorded basically a series of jokes in the booth that were never meant to be heard since... well they were never officially sanctioned as a blooper track and were quite crass and reflective of the kind of edgy tune most of the late 90s and early 2000s took so it included some very questionable content. They leaked during that time I believe due to a former audio engineer and they were rediscovered in 2019.

[@MagillanicaLouM]

A lot of Dragonball fanart uuh.... Not meant to be witnessed in the office lol

[@SumTr011]

Reads the title: Oh boy, whatever we're in for, this is going to be GOOD.

[@chriscannon8144]

I remember when most fans as kids loved SSJ3, we talked about it,fan art of it, and placed it #1 on our top 10s. I noticed as we got older, it became our least favorite. I still don't know why that is, my only guess is because we all learned it was just a waste of energy and came of nowhere when start focusing less on the coolness, and more on narrative behind it. As kids, not all of us pay attention to the details like we do now. I could be incredibly wrong about all of this, but that's my take at the moment. It still looks undeniably badass though.

[@AnAverageGoblin]

nah its because you realized it looked stupid.

[@ThelronFjord]

First I want to start off by saying I had a dream last night you uploaded this video, and it clocked in at over 70 minutes long. If I'm starting to have dreams about your videos, you must be doing something good. Another thing I want to say is I really do enjoy Goku's characterization during this arc, and especially during his fight with Boo. It also illustrates how far down the shitter his characterization has gone since the manga ended, somewhat in GT, and even more glaringly obvious in the Super anime, and manga. I also remember all of the fan SSJ classifications that were used for the many different variations of Super Saiyan on online forums (ex: SSJ1 for the first Super Saiyan form, USSJ for the bulky form, and FPSSJ for SSJ Grade 4), but I never really knew that these forms had actual, official designations until I watched this video. I always like learning something new from watching these videos. As for SSJ3 itself, I like the design even with the pronounced neanderthal forehead, and hairless brow. The long hair coupled with Goku's halo make it look godlier than Super Saiyan God ever looked. I liked Babidi's role as a villain in this arc, I liked his design, his powers, his personality, and even his relationship with Boo, and his eventual downfall. He's pretty under-rated as a villain. OH BOY CAN'T WAIT FOR THE B.O BROLY REVIEW!

[@PedroOver9000]

The thing with Goku teleporting to Boo instead of capsule corp always was justified to me as instant transimission relying on Ki rather than a location to pinpoint where he is going Since there arent any ki users with a big enough signature to Goku track the move isnt useful so buying time against Boo instead makes sense

[@PrimeroJinJusuke]

Yet he can teleport to New Namek after simply learning the general direction of the planet, which is way far away. Even if the Namekians are stronger than Earthlings, it's not like they emit so much Ki that Goku can pick it up without trying.

[@PedroOver9000]

@@PrimeroJinJusuke I mean the first time he showcases the technique was with master Roshi wich is way weaker than the average namekian at this point If any Warrior type namekian emits ki makes sense that Goku could find the place

[@craigime]

@@PedroOver9000 goku has been to capsule corp many times before, he knows where it is. he can move many times faster than light so he should have been there in almost no time.

[@PedroOver9000]

@@craigime Well, so can Trunks lol. Later in this arc Gotenks Will do literal laps around the world in seconds And in the end of Z little Pan states that she was just done doing a lap herself Trunks with his mastery of ki and flight shouldnt have any problem getting there "faster than light" as any other character

[@craigime]

@@PedroOver9000 that's true- however, gotenks is obviously faster than trunks himself, and i don't remember pan being able to fly at the end of z and i don't remember her saying that at all in the manga or the anime (then again it's been many years since i've seen those episodes)... in any case, goku is much faster than trunks so that whole plot was unnecessary. the point being, none of this needed to happen. first of all, they don't even need the radar to find the dragon balls-- popo found them in the freeza saga without it just fine.

[@EvanSol919]

Super Saiyan, Super Duper Saiyan and Super DEE Duper Saiyan!

[@craigime]

lol

[@tintor2]

Remember how easily Goku found Bulma's house as a kid despite not having over-the-top powers?

[@Drums_of_Liberation]

There'd be no time to ask a cop for directions

[@craigime]

@@Drums_of_Liberation seeing as he can move many times faster than the speed of light, i think there's plenty of time

[@thunderboltwarrior]

The virgin Super Saiyan 3 vs the Chad Super Saiyan grade 6

[@BGMfan]

A simple change that could have benefitted the SSJ3 scene would be to just have Goku confess that he didn't think he could do it, and that his powering up sequence was just him stalling for time until, oh hey, this form happens. Woulda put a new spin on transformations, where instead of it being a built up spur of rage, or already in the fighter's catalog of techniques, it's just a happy accident that he pulled it off, not unlike the Kaioken x4 in the beam struggle with Vegeta. Plus it'd just be funny for something so scary and intimidating to come from a moment of "Wait what's this.". Then Goku's fight with Majin Vegeta would be played straight, as Goku wouldn't know he could do this, and the weakness of SSJ3's ki consumption rears an even uglier head, as Goku would have had no idea it was coming.

[@bearmanscave3289]

Is Vegeta your least favorit member of the Dragon Team? :P Because during this arc it more and more is beginning to sound so xD He totally deserves to get roasted for his role in this arc so far though

[@ScherrHrenner]

Well, he liked Vegeta as an antagonist, and while dissecting the Freeza arc, he didn't like Vegeta being revived on Namek.

[@bearmanscave3289]

@@ScherrHrenner I know he liked him during the arcs when he was not a part of the Dragon Team. That’s why I am wondering this now😛

[@PrimeroJinJusuke]

@@bearmanscave3289 That's because Vegeta is well written as a villain, but not so well written when he's a "hero" which he's not until the end of the series. That's also because the heroes don't treat him as a threat anymore.

[@TheParappa]

@@PrimeroJinJusuke I think it's more that Vegeta was actually cunning on Namek. Afterwards he had to be written as an idiot to create problems like Cell and Buu for the others to solve. He is like Ben from the Walking Dead game: only here to mess up.

[@NiGHTSnoob]

Goku had his ki drained by Yakon only a short while prior to his fight with Vegeta. While not confirmed it makes sense that he couldn't have gone Super Saiyan 3 in that fight because he didn't have the ki for it, but he didn't want to say that to Vegeta who might have taken it as Goku trying to worm his way out of the fight. The explanation was right there and Toriyama just dropped the ball on it.

[@wesley5729]

That’s a good point, and it would have made sense. You could have a few panels of Goku acting rather fatigued and he could have alluded to some card up his sleeve that he could have used on Vegeta had he not been so tired. But Toriyama probably hadn’t even thought of super Saiyan 3 at the time yet

[@NiGHTSnoob]

@@wesley5729 Yeah, but it still could have been Goku's explanation when Vegeta asks him later in the arc instead of "Oh, well it only lasts a short while so I didn't want to waste it."

[@wesley5729]

@@NiGHTSnoob I prefer the time limit one personally

[@kmgyening]

He wasn't even tired after fighting Yakon though. And Goku doesn't specify what he was saving SSJ3 for. Why would he choose to save it for some unspecified circumstance while Buu is still sealed? He would have been more effective had he used it against Vegeta, since Vegeta was not damaging a SSJ3 Goku, and Goku therefore would not have his energy taken and transferred to Buu.

[@ale-xsantos1078]

Tbh he should have went with the idea of Mastered SSJ = new base form and given Goku the Super Kaioken He would be saying the truth when he said that he gave his all against Vegeta(say, if he used SSJ times 10) and after that fight he got a zenkai boost which allowed him to push further(say, 20x) causing his body to mutate into that iconic SSJ3 due to the side effects It would also explain why the form drained his vital energy so much and why he couldnt simply finish Boo off with it, as it would be destroying his physical body It wouldnt undermine the Super Saiyan grades either, specially Gohan's ascended form, because it would mean Goku didnt ascend past Gohan's form but rather took another(costly) path to match it despite his lack of potential in comparison to Gohan, causing someone like Vegeta who also lacks both said potential & the Kaioken technique to see the Majin boost as the only way to keep up with both of them As for Gotenks you could have him be the only one after Gohan to have access to the ascended SSJ form due to the potential of two hybrid saiyans plus the fusion boost

[@DudeHunder]

Why pulling the sword out of the rock suppose to be impressive? Almost any DB character can do it. "Just blow up the rock"

[@shounenfury]

Oh my god I feel so dumb XD classic Gordian Knot. That would've been a great Toriyama style joke if Gohan had promptly blown the stone to smithereens while the Gods watched on in disbelief and horror.

[@ryszakowy]

yeah but gohan - in weaker state tho. having trouble to even hold the sword makes it "ok so this sword is SOMETHING" we know how it ended but still, these people can benchpress a planet

[@feelgoodfandom5353]

@@ryszakowy can they? I.mean didn't we watch goku struggle with forty tons this arc?

[@Estra_Estra]

@@feelgoodfandom5353 Yeah, they can block attacks far above planet destruction level with their bare hands, but Goku had to go Super Saiyan to move around with 40 tons.

[@feelgoodfandom5353]

@@Estra_Estra I mean to be fair your ability to defend against planetary devastation isn't really an indicator of your physical strength tons of tnt worth of force does not equate to physical strength in terms of raw physical strength these guys aren't as strong as some may think I mean goku was tanking rocket launcher blasts as a kid but 300 pounds or so can slow him down as an adult. I mean goku just died last arc from a small planetary explosion

[@godemperorofmankind3.091]

God Super Saiyan 3....it looks visually epic, powerful and even brings back a kind of animalistic Oozaru feeling that has been lacking since the original SSJ transformation on Namek. Yet I feel it was completely wasted, and the following higher forms are little more than colorswaps. SSJ3 ultimately never really achieves anything whereas SSJ2 got to have the victory over Cell. Its existence also creates plot holes regarding Goku's earlier behaviour. Ultimately I feel if you needed to have a form beyond SSJ3 I would have combined it with Oozaru even more, bringing back the body hair, more aggressive personality and even the tails. You once mentioned that SSJ doesnt really make a whole lot of sense evolution wise for the Saiyans. So maybe Super Saiyan in of itself was always just a precursor to their true evolved form, SSJ4. That could have been an interesting idea for Super.

[@theinvestigativemillennial9381]

Super Saiyan 4 in my view is the best evolution of a Saiyan.

[@randomfox12245]

I always like fanart that, say, has super saiyan give them fangs or something. Incorporate that animalistic basis of the giant ape.

[@yotomoe5953]

I've always seen SS3 as the saiyan equivelent to 100% Frieza. Pushing EVERYTHING to the limit to the point where its bleeding out of them. The hair doesn't just spike up, it grows out. The eyes aren't just blue they're detailed, The brows aren't just prominent they're Hairless and intense.

[@craigime]

@@yotomoe5953 the eyes are green

[@BagOfMagicFood]

​@@craigime I saw blue in the manga.

[@PabloNeves26]

This is the best Dragon Ball channel!

[@yotomoe5953]

21:26 If anything I think SSJ3 gives way MORE credence to the idea that Goku just wants to test his "skill" against Vegeta. Sure in a battle of Raw power SSJ3 would give Goku a distinct edge. But if we are assuming that Goku himself WANTS to fight Vegeta on equal footing, that would definitely be the correct "test of skill". Achieving a powerful form isn't the same as technique or skill so I could legitimately buy Goku intentionally handicapping himself to see if, on equal footing, he could simply outperform Vegeta. Of course that does a lot to ruin Goku's pragmatism in this arc and seems HORRIBLY reckless if that's the case. It also doesn't explain away Goku saying things like "I gotta finish the fight quickly" and being surprised Vegeta can reach the form retroactively known as Super Saiyan 2.

[@prometheusmodelow8322]

But it certainly contradicts the "I want to finish this up as fast as possible" thing with Goku in that fight, which was his primary motivation there, and retroactively makes Majin Vegeta a complete non-threat.

[@lawrenceboyd9341]

Well...we can assume Goku’s never used Super Saiyan 3 against an opponent before this, and maybe he can’t fully control its power. Maybe he was worried about accidentally killing Vegeta? Have fun explaining that to Bulma and Trunks. At least that’s the best headcanon I can come up with. As for Goku’s explanation to Vegeta later, if you KNOW Vegeta, and you want to get him to work with you, what would you say: “Yeah I can go Super Saiyan 3 but only for a short time, 😥” or “Oh Super Saiyan 3 is too much for you, it would’ve wiped you out instantly? 😏”

[@ChrisPeteG]

The running theme of DBD: Everything after the Freeza arc is too stupid to exist.

[@Yuli_Ban]

Here's a dark showerthought: what if Son Goku actually DID die on Namek and everything that happened ever since was just his own fantasy flashing before his eyes right before his death? Hence the increasing absurdity of events.

[@ChrisPeteG]

@@Yuli_Ban Or its all a fantasy written by Gohan in between homework assignments as he patiently awaits Goku's return, thinking of all of the wild adventures they'll have together.

[@animefan77]

I personally think it was to the detriment. While Fat/Good/Mr. Buu manages to work on his own merits- especially when he develops a connection with Mr. Satan/Hercule, his succeeding forms- Evil, but especially Super Buu and Pure/Kid Buu to an extent, really would’ve worked much better if Babidi remained the comedic foil/tagalong so that the more intimidating forms could have someone to interact with other than the heroes and to make him stand out a bit more- because frankly, as the later fights show- it really would’ve mitigated the contrivances of Buu’s sudden intelligence boosts.

[@prometheusmodelow8322]

I don't think Buu being smart in his own quirky way needed a "fix" it's actually something that compliments his chaotic personality really well with contrast, as even here Goku is calling him a "genius" in fighting.

[@misterlinux9290]

23:30 PuNcH tHe TuNa

[@PlanetZoidstar]

"What? With Goku gone Chi Chi needs someone to do it."

[@craigime]

Pound*

[@GMan873]

Hell, even the Red Ribbon Army had their own oversized Dragon Radar before they got ahold of Bulma's original Radar, so you don't even have to have a genius level like Bulma, or Turbo to make your own Radar, even if it will be large and unconventional, so long as you have the """special""" parts.

[@metal87power]

I don't think so necessarily. RR might have just hired a scientist or a group of scientists to figure it out, but most likely they disposed of them as soon as the radar was completed, because they would know too much. Remember how their leader was surprised that Bulma had a miniature version of the device and how he desperately wanted it for himself.

[@overlordpichu5577]

I like how fusion reborn basically establishes that yes, it is because of the dance and vegeta hating fun that he shows any resistance to it.

[@Adamwinters]

Thanks for the reminder about how "Special" the Dragon Radar tech is in the Toriyama-verse.

[@chabri2000]

goku as a mentor will get ruined as soon as he gets revived, and then super would put a crayon into his brain

[@leultrainstinct406]

That wasn’t the point. He never found his successor in gohan or the kids. He regained his original pursuit of happiness and put his mentor role on hold until uub arrives. In the 10 year span thanks to super, goku truly becomes a martial arts master by mastering ui. Now he’s ready to train uub

[@Mike-xh2vm]

@@leultrainstinct406 That's sounds so pointless... All of that was fine without Super, that's just are needless retcons.

[@paigeh7892]

@@Mike-xh2vm super didn’t retcon that though? You could say all that just by reading the original manga

[@Mike-xh2vm]

@@paigeh7892 I mean his claim that Goku is now a martial arts master because UI is a retcon. Since in the end of Boo arc is implied that the world have been at Peace since the Boo incident. So obviously all of Super is basically a big retcon. Goku was already a martial arts master before Super.

[@paigeh7892]

@@Mike-xh2vm oh ok

[@DidgeridudeEX]

As fucked as this part of the story is narratively, you gotta love that Super Saiyan 3 design.

[@blazerider763]

That sarcastic "aha" alone made this video the best.

[@superpe]

I just love how super just reckon all goku's maturity, development and growth

[@EclipseHedgehog]

FINALLY someone else likes the fusion dance!

[@craigime]

pretty sure most fans like the fusion dance

[@zekken8227]

Goku needs an energy signal to teleport somewhere, and nobody in capsule corp have a signifacant enough level for him to lach onto. So him going directly to Buu while Trunks flyes over to his house makes total sense

[@najadamu2724]

If he could teleport to Bulma back when they were making a wish on the DBs to revive everyone who'd died since the tournament, then he could teleport to Bulma's parents' house. Bulma had tiny ki too, but he still recognised it. And Goku's been around Bulma's family and Capsule Corp. enough times (such as when he went there to pick up the spaceship to Namek Dr. Brief had rebuilt for him) that he should've been able to teleport there with ease.

[@zekken8227]

@@najadamu2724 Yamcha was there too not just bulma.

[@craigime]

@@zekken8227 goku can fly several times the speed of light- he doesn't even need to use instant transmission to get there. and anyway, they found the dragon balls just fine without the dragon radar in the freeza saga, so there was no point

[@prometheusmodelow8322]

He could teleport to New Namek.

[@zekken8227]

@@prometheusmodelow8322 the namekians have Ki though, & he also needed to go to King Kais place to get a good enough signal. Bulma and the others there at the time had no ki at all

[@KINGBADASS100]

These videos are some of the best analysis videos on Dragonball I’ve seen. Keep up the good job!

[@cipher_db8992]

Glad you covered the long list of alternate radars, including several Bulma makes in a day out of spare parts at Kame House.

[@bananatree2527]

As much as the "I don't belong here, I'm already dead" stuff from Goku may come across as him maturing, I just don't buy it from him. It's just not like Goku to actually care at all about whose place it is or not is to defeat bad guys. He has never cared for any of that poetic stuff as far as I can tell, nor too much about responsibility. I could potentially buy it from some of the other characters, but not from Goku. It feels more like Toriyama trying to come up with an excuse why Goku couldn't attempt to main-protagonist his way through a tough fight with Buu and win there because he wanted to continue on his plan of having Gotenks fight Buu as the opening act to Gohan's fight, and this Super Saiyan 3 part just got in the way.

[@EvanSol919]

To be fair you'd think that making a radar to find ancient mystical objects that can summon a gigantic wish granting dragon would be difficult to make.

[@benhedge9149]

What a badass episode! Great job!

[@Jotari]

Goku could just go to Penguin Village to magic up another dragon radar.

[@Videospiel-Man5730]

But it probably is in another dimension if not: Its either Protected thanks to gag manga Logic Or more Daming Arale was Replaced by a Duplicate because androids cant be wished back! (although i dont think Arale counts)

[@brandonlyon730]

Or just ask Mr. Popo to find the dragon balls for them, since he did that once during the Frieza arc.

[@nellewoodruff6337]

Arale could stomp Buu while we're at it

[@Drums_of_Liberation]

@@brandonlyon730 Popo too busy making toast.

[@egebamyasi2929]

I got that Dragon Ball artbook a few years ago and it's amazing. I recommend it to every DB fan.

[@Radiomen_IV]

Super Saiyan Assault! Revenge of the fallen, the ancient Saiyan amazing guy

[@WFQuill]

MistareFusion, what are your thoughts on Dragon Ball Kai? I enjoy the way they cut it (most of the time) but the redrawn frames using a vector brush in photoshop are really ugly

[@Videospiel-Man5730]

I just wish there was a Perfect cut version of Dragonball you could watch it Uncensored in most languages, use subs in all languages and have Non fight extension filler filler be in the Deleted Scenes!

[@pizzahutkidman8806]

A part of me thinks Bulma lied about the Dragon Radar because she didn't want to risk her parents dying. She had already lost Vegeta and would be incredbily woreied about losing them. Just my thoughts

[@craigime]

what does that mean? how does lying about the radar save her parents?

[@pizzahutkidman8806]

@@craigime Because her parents are in the city... where the radar is most likely? Bulma's train of thought might be that if someone were to go to Capsule Corp, maybe they'd talk sense to them and they'd go to the lookout.

[@craigime]

@@pizzahutkidman8806 so she'd just assume trunks was gonna talk some sense into them? When bulma herself- the entire squad (including trunks)- failed to do so? Really?

[@pizzahutkidman8806]

@@craigime Well, she might had thought that the fact that a potato man talked into their heads twice and threatened their family might have knocked some sense into them. Plus she most likely wasn't thinking fully straight since you know. Vegeta commited Chiaotzu

[@craigime]

@@pizzahutkidman8806 lol toriyama is the one who wasn't thinking straight. they didn't even need the radar anyway

[@_.Lucifer_Lightfall._]

I have my EMT final exam tommorow. o___O Perfect timing! ;) Relaxing!

[@Ahturos]

It is really to bad how much at first Toriyama wants the story to be. "Goku can´t help you now you have to take this to the new generation." And around here already it is. "Yeah but people still like Goku so why not." I think the biggest problem later is how powerful Gohan got. Imagine if everyone cheered for Gohan to take care of Buu when he was at his most powerful or when he tried to absorb Gohan he somehow protected himself and HE saved everyone but was super tired so when he battled Kid Buu he was pretty much out of it but with help from Goten, Trunks and Piccolo sort of like Tournament of Power finale, everyone are at thier last rope but somehow togheter they manage to beat Buu hey I even buy if Goku telepathically helped Gohan how to make the Spirit bomb, but I be happy with a everyone fiering a beam finishing Buu and that Gohan was the one excisted to face Uub.

[@Dante...]

15:07 Vegeta's Technique™️

[@kierany9]

As someone who absorbed a lot of Dragon Ball's story through video games and cultural osmosis well before watching the anime (and I still haven't read the manga), it's fascinating seeing how much is lost through these adaptations and fan perceptions. Goku having become much wiser in his time in the Other World is a massive piece of character development and I'm sad that through flanderization these have been lost.

[@dr.c2195]

Goku saved SSJ3 for when he had beaten the final boss and all the optional bosses.

[@spartanq7781]

Goku plays RPGS? That explains a lot.