The Grace of the Erdtree is a Lie | Elden Ring Lore & Theory

MAJOR SPOILERS! #eldenring #fromsoftware #gaming
This video has a LOT of speculation so please take my conclusions and connections with a grain of salt. Also, feel free to comment your thoughts on any of the theories or points brought up in today's video.
Thank you so much for watching and I hope you enjoyed it! Please make sure to leave any corrections or suggestions down in the comment section. If you have any theories please leave them down below in the comments so we can all discuss them together~
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Sorry for any mispronunciations.
Music credit: Epidemic Sound www.epidemicsound.com/
Elden Ring and all imagery from it is the exclusive property of Bandai Namco. I claim no ownership of the original content.
All gameplay provided by: Me/KZbin(BonFireVN)
Console: PS5/PC
Sources: In game dialogue, item descriptions, Reddit EldenRing thread(User: ClydetheCamel) Elden Ring Wiki eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com...

[@pkthunder416]

So what you're saying is "Runes are stored in the balls. The eyeballs."

[@victorprati7908]

😂 Pin worthy comment!

[@LeggoMyGekko]

💀

[@NikkuKunUWU]

glad someone said it lol

[@myskinwasdullgold]

😂😅

[@2JOfficial]

I need a reporter to ask Miyazaki how the hell they implement so much lore into one game in such a short amount of time.. if you compare Western open world games that literally have no lore whatsoever in their worlds and compare it to Elden Ring, it's absolutely mind boggling that people are still finding new lore 2 years later and probably more in years to come..

[@exquisitedoomlapointe185]

I think it's because they already have an entire universe written down just for a fraction to be experienced in game. Once that universe is written and fleshed out, all they have to do is pick and chose bits of disconnected lore, that way they don't even have to consider loopholes as much because our minds will fill the gaps so the writing team doesn't have to. It might come off lazy, but it's kind of brilliant

[@NickCombs]

When you spearhead a project with a sociology major and a famous novelist :)

[@Brutalyte616]

As I recall, the creative process behind Elden Ring was that they started with a group of idealized medieval fantasy heroes, then handed them off to George R.R. Martin to rework them into corrupted and evil or lesser versions of themselves, and then concepts were bounced back and forth between him and FromSoft to contextualize how these characters went from paragons to these parodies of themselves until FromSoft had a solid outline of what they wanted to do, then started filling in the blanks.

[@Henbot]

You seem to error because GRRM is the one who created lore and people are still talking about ASOIAF lore for decade. Miyazaki didn’t create the lore and lots of the echoes of ASOIAF lore is in this game.

[@Brutalyte616]

@@Henbot As I have mentioned, it was a joint venture. FromSoft and G.R.R.M. bounced ideas back and forth to establish the characters and string the central narrative of the Shattering together, although to my understanding a lot of the finer details are purely FromSoft's work.

[@destar1]

To your credit: "To gaze into one another's eyes is truly the most intimate form of human contact" -Inescapable Frenzy.

[@NickCombs]

As an actual autistic, that one is painfully true.

[@arturkushukov1815]

Maliketh's second eye is in Melina. In fact, I'm starting to suspect that some invasion phantoms are just eyes. Vyke's grape for one. Seems like he tore out his eye at the Church and then ended up in an evergaol where he slowly shed the effects of madness. And his eye took a form of an invader phantom. Others too, probably. Edgar for sure.

[@shogomakishima7224]

That is an interesting theory. I however do stand on the side that grace is controlled by Marika. After all Enia says: "Heavens forbid... That is not the domain of mere men. The burning of the Erdtree is the first cardinal sin. And you say you seek power of the Rune of Death, too? The Rune of Death goes by two names; the other is Destined Death. The forbidden shadow, plucked from the Golden Order upon its creation... Unleashing the rune now would be unthinkable... The Fingers would never permit it. Nor would the Greater Will" and then the grace just guides us to the Forge Of The Giants.

[@The808basshead]

I am obsessed with all the lies and weird incongruities in the game. I think it's super intentional as a way of reflecting that victors rewrite history and culture. This is an excellent example!

[@pedro_mab]

​​@@The808basshead100% agree! I truly believe one of the main themes of the game is propaganda.

[@dirmusloner7963]

The fact that we see ash on Leyndell makes it clear that the Erdtree was burned before

[@exquisitedoomlapointe185]

Yea, everything alludes to grace being a Marika power. Especially since even the two fingers seem incapable of contacting the greater will, surely guidance of grace is a greater and more difficult power to maintain than mere communication.

[@NickCombs]

The Finger Readers are not a direct source of the Greater Will. It's their job to interpret the Fingers in a way that is congruent with the Golden Order, and that Order has schismed away from Marika since The Shattering and probably earlier in subtler ways. All that said, we can't compare the words of the Finger Readers to validate the motives of Marika or the Greater Will. They are too biased.

[@TheMemoman]

It's amazing how this video deals with a subject that's been out in the open since release, yet I have never seen such a thorough analysis linking all the findings and observations on the eyes, runes, grace and it's burden. Also wild, wild stuff drawing conclusions of faith devotees and chosen ones losing their eyes. What a fresh take, so concise and well presented too. I love this channel because it always manages to produce such clever and unique observations.

[@AHumanJusticar]

I’m so glad you enjoyed it! I’m already working on a Part 2 so keep an eye out for that one! 🤗

[@TheMemoman]

@@AHumanJusticar It was fantastic and I'm so ready for part 2 whenever it comes out, honestly, this bit of news just made my day. You cook it well done at your own pace, I'm tuned in! As for this video, I'll also share the link with my cousin for part 2! Thank you for the effort that goes into these, they're truly terrific , so well put together and so insightful.

[@tuckernuts88]

I think something that adds to this is Hyetta can "see" the frenzied flame when she eats the grapes. She's eating the eyes, so she can see the connection the eyes have to the outer god.

[@NickCombs]

The eyes are the window to the soul, as the proverb goes.

[@zack_feldman]

Glad to see you back! I always thought the wolf mask might be linked to the traitor that Blaith is seeking, Darowill (sic). While I noticed that the sore and scar seals look like eyes, I never thought they might actually be Marika’s and Radagon’s eyes. Crazy!

[@Willie_Dickins]

Marika is never seen without her eyes covered. Her ties to the denizens of the Eternal City who also cover their eyes could point towards proving the theory correct that the Greater Will resides in the eyes. The denizens of the Eternal Cities were sworn enemies of the Greater Will after all. At least some members of the Nightfolk race that you can select at the beginning of the game once apparently had grace as well, evidenced by being Tarnished. I believe that Marika's ties to the Eternal Cities were involved in the attempted forging of a lord mentioned in the mimic tear ashes item description. Something interesting to note is part of the description that goes as far as to point out that "... its mimicry does not extend to imitating the summoner's will." There is only one case that I can think of where someone is the same as someone else, (in the same vein as a mimic tear), but has their own will and ambitions, and that is Radagon and Marika being the same being. Mimic Tears do not demonstrate the ability to turn into any being that they desire. Rather, every Mimic Tear transforms into exactly one thing. Does this mean that a base essence of a being is required to be provided for the mimic tear to mimic? Could Radagon be a Mimic Tear forged using Marika's own essence? Radagon would have been for intents and purposes, Marika, but would have been able to push their own agenda. To me, the most interesting part of this whole idea is that it leaves Marika, the original Marika, as a free agent to move about in the shadows and continue exerting influence as a God, while her mimic was stuck doing the being locked in the Erdtree. This could mean that the original Marika is still out there. It could also mean that Marika was once the vessel for the elden ring, but eventually passed that role off to Radagon, who used it to push his own agenda, being that of the Golden Order. Please feel free to pick that apart and point out contradictions but i dont think there is currently any evidence contrary to the idea that Radagon could be a mimic tear of Marika.

[@eldenanchor8179]

Adding to this is the mirror helmets which are designed to keep out the influence of the GW, if I'm remembering correctly.

[@lloydfrazier3682]

Because of theories and such, like this one... I have this feeling there's gonna be a HUGE twist in this DLC

[@anonfinally1692]

Miquella is ascending to godhood in the dlc with us as the Elden Lord. New ending too.

[@JackisaMimic]

Great video! This is such an excellent video and I think you are on the right track! It is so exciting to see these theories pop up from people who most likely haven't read GRRM's more niche work, because to me this proves to me that the similarities are there on purpose! I would recommend looking into the Erdtree Fungus theory, I think Ziostrom platformed it(though it does not originate from him) In brief, icons for grace look like eyes BUT they also look like a fungal growth. The Two Fingers look like a fungus called "dead man's fingers", but why does that matter? GRRM has a Sci-Fi short story called "Men of Greywater Station" (you can find it online if you wanna read it, its roughly 20 pages) about a bunch of human researchers who are convinced by an intelligent fungus into killing each other through dreams and paranoia. A space ship lands on the planet, which they call a falling star and an ill omen, with soldiers. The researchers are concerned that if the soldiers inhale the spores the fungus will learn everything they know and will send them to kill them. They are working on a bioweapon that will kill the fungus entirely and do not want to lose that research. So they start preparing to fight the soldiers, and eventually they start killing the people who landed on sight. Turns out, they weren't infected by the spores, yet still the men killed each other, and the fungus won. Grace being in our eyes would make sense, as if is controlling what we see, and it knows what we know. Eyes open but blinded by faith ;) Again, excellent video, I think your theory is valid and very close to the truth because we can look at one of the co-author's previous works (well many actually) and see that this isn't the first time he has told this story before! I made a community post giving you a shout out, its not much but I hope you get some more "eyeballs" on this great video!

[@5irius]

I wouldn't have come across this excellent video if it weren't for your recommendation, Jack, so you can count my eyeballs in your tally (if you're keeping score). Again, this was a great video - not only for the insight into the world of Elden Ring, but it reminds me how fascinated FromSoft/Miyazaki seem to be with the idea of eyes and blindness. I can't think of a recent FromSoft game that doesn't feature characters that are either blindfolded / blind / missing eyes (I haven't played AC6 mind you). Off the top of my head, we have: the Maiden in Black (DeS); the Firekeepers (DkS); Master Willem blindfolding himself to the physical world around him and obsessing over gaining "eyes on the inside" (BB)... I mean there's heaps of examples that I'm sure everyone's aware of. I'd love to hear more people's takes on this aspect of the FromVerse... I don't think I fully get it but it obviously makes me think of ideas like being "blinded by faith"... eyes being the "windows to the soul". I don't know if From are just literalising those concepts "cuz it's cool and interesting" (which it is)... I bet I'm missing some crucial _insight_. Anyway, if anyone's aware of someone having done a meta-analysis of the FromSoft "eye stuff", I'd love to hear about it! Thanks for the videos, Justicar and Jack, you keep my Elden Ring lore obsession alive

[@jamesarthurkimbell]

@@5irius On a meta level, eyes and fingers are how we interact with a video game. They have an innate fourth wall-breaking symbolism, a way for outside forces to reach into the game world, like phones in The Matrix

[@AHumanJusticar]

Oh my gosh, I’m so glad you enjoyed it!! Thank you so much for the shoutout! I’m happy to see so many people excited about the topic! 🤩

[@exiledark6573]

Hey there Jack! Got to see this video before you linked it. Love to see you guys growing and helping each other out.

[@georgeioannou9207]

Intro: Something lerks in the Lands Between, something small, something round.. Me: RANNI'S BUTT

[@AHumanJusticar]

😂😭

[@richter6699]

Great channel. I've actually never heard anybody else highlight the significance of eyes in Elden Ring, they really do show up everywhere lol

[@Luaeria]

In regards to topics I would like to see you discuss, I’m very intrigued by the erdtree saplings wherein we find our golden seeds. Their description states that when the Elden ring was shattered, the tree sprang forth these seeds that scattered around the world. They would have spread all across the land that was exposed at the time of the shattering. But what is quite interesting is that we find these erdtree saplings in the eternal cities and even in lands thought to be far more ancient than the eternal cities, like where Mohg’s palace is, amidst the ruins with carvings of what appears to be some things that we can recognised from the DLC trailer in the background of the red dancer scene. The timeline of the events of Elden ring is so hard to pin down, but I think the dispersal of the golden seeds lends us a good hint, in addition to the wandering mausoleums, that all of the eternal cities and even the more ancient ruins with “Elden John” used to be above ground and perhaps even the land of shadow used to occupy the same space as our current lands between. With such a cataclysm having taken place and ruins from a place that looks quite like farum azula littering only liurnia, the weeping peninsula, Limgrave and quite scarcely, though also caelid, I can’t help but think it was a place below the Altus plateau, but above all of the other aforementioned sections of the map. This puts into perspective that Marika may have been imprisoned for dar longer than many of us first had the impression of her having been. As it is, there is next to no evidence at all that Miquella and Malenia even had anything to do with her at all outside of out of game information leading us to believe that Miquella is “following in his mothers footsteps” which could mean anything, figuratively or literally. What do you think of all of this? Do you subscribe to the usurper theory that Radagon had been wielding Marika’s power at the behest of the greater will but rather fraudulently? Do you think Marika tried to save the lands between from the greater will in the end? Do you think her message to her demigod children to make of themselves a lord or a god but should they fail to become ought at all then they will amount to sacrifices was a threat or a warning and a call to arms? Do you think her conversation in her bed chambers with Radagon was her conspiring with Radagon or making a stand against him, letting him know that she has this one remaining bit of power that she held, this trump card in her back pocket, and so shattered the Elden ring? Sorry this is long and nutso. Any one of these topics would be nice to hear your thoughts on 🤣😂💜

[@highbrednxtus]

I have the same theory about all these different places previously occupying the same space. A sort of "Pangea" but when split, the pieces are formed into their own "realms" (similar to how God of War [Reboot] functions). I think the Land of Shadow may be a Dreg Heap type location similar to DS3. Once the DLC releases, I'm thinking all the areas in similar locations on different layers of the map will have some sort of link.

[@exquisitedoomlapointe185]

I never considered that! This heavily implies that the shattering predates the Nox' banishment underground. It also makes me question how Farum Azula has a sappling! It's supposedly time locked, and before that, we had a wholly different tree! I was never sure which comet hit Farum, astel or elden beast, if this isn't some overlooked detail by the writing team it heavily implies it couldn't have been the beast.

[@Luaeria]

@@exquisitedoomlapointe185 I think Farum Azula and the shadow lands both used to be part of the main body of the world that is the lands between. To me, it’s the only thing that explains the sapling seed spread, but also the origin, influence and spread of so many different beings, architectural styles, cultures and creatures that occupy each of these lands. But there is somethjng certainly very foreign and unique about some creatures from the shadow lands. I’m so intrigued and so excited but also a bit overwhelmed with just the perfect amount of clues to piece a million theories together but not feel confident about anything

[@Stabbymcstabbinz]

Totally on board with your theory regarding the outer gods influence manifesting in the eyes. When Varre cuts your finger and you become affiliated with Mohg’s creepy cult, your eyes become red. Following your theory, this is probably the influence of the Formless Mother. Before your video I thought your eyes just go bloodshot because getting your finger cut looked so excruciating lol.

[@dirmusloner7963]

About Nox, even if they are exiled and punished they have golden eyes, and we know that anyone that have golden eyes can see grace and it's guidance. Also about Radagon I think that he is nothing more than a mere tool of Greater will to punish and torture Marika. Also I agree about thorn sorecery and the connection to Radagon.

[@AHumanJusticar]

The Nox were amongst the first followers of the Greater Will and were blessed with “vivid coloration”, so they 100% have grace in their eyes. However, there’s Lost Grace all over the Eternal city and it makes me wonder if the sites of grace are in fact sites of lost grace(aka when Grace was taken from a group of people). Perhaps that’s why it states “Lost Grace Found” when you first interact with it. 🧐 there’s still so much to explore!!

[@dirmusloner7963]

@@AHumanJusticar indeed there is so much to explore and so much to think in a way how they fit in the story, all those places and different stories.

[@dirmusloner7963]

@@AHumanJusticar maybe those giants siting in throne crypts in the eternal cities were the actually ones that go against the fmgreater will and lost their grace, but we never told or find the true reason why the Nox go against the greater will and why they start to make their own lord of night. I may be too sceptical in this but to me it doesn't make sense to say that one day the Nox just woke up and go against the greater will and start making silver tears lavar tears or mimic tears in order for them to make their own lord. I have a "crazy" speculation about that, what if when the Elden star falls in the lands between the Nox among with other the followers of ghostflame, the followers of Gloam eyed Queen and the followers of ancestral spirits, saw the arrival of the elden beast as a threat or something like a parasite that endagers not only their existence but the world itself as they view it? Also beastmen in Farum Azula drop an item that in the description of the item we read something interesting in my opinion, that in the era before the afmge of the Erdtree beasts were bestowed the gift of intelligence.

[@matiasluukkanen7718]

You realize Radagon is Marika. They are bastard god born of Fire Giants and Numen, schizoprenic deity who hides one part of their heritage. Greater Will does not know what happens in Lands Between. Not since Nox usurped the world, killed previous god and split Five-Fingers with god's mutilated body, aka, Finger-Slaying Blade. People really blame Greater Will who gave intelligence to all.

[@cardgameenjoyer7446]

Nah radagon was made by marika cuz they getting clapped in war with the carian

[@Luaeria]

Positively brilliant! I had been dancing on the edge of a lot of your thought processes but unable to make some of the connections that you have. Incredible work! Thank you for such marvellous content!

[@AHumanJusticar]

Thank you so much 😊 I’m so glad you enjoy my content!

[@Mainlymundane]

Mohg has one of his horns gouging out his eye… maybe that’s how he communicates with the formless mother

[@robertjandejager6758]

I was just playing and noticed my character wearing the haima glinstone crown, which made me think because it has a blindfold. If your theory about the baleful shadow spawning because we are being spied on through our eyes is true, then the baleful shadow shouldn't spawn if we cover our eyes somehow. Or perhaps blindfolds are not enough, which would explain people gouging out their eyes instead of simply covering them, and the Nox being punished for their sins even though they covered their eyes.

[@nicolomontefiori8082]

This is the first video of yours that I've seen and I can say it's pretty good and well done, primarily because you are not trying to solve all the great mysteries with a theory that, while entertaining, doesn't make that much sense. This is just giving more context to the world that they have created. Only two things to remember: the grace that guides us is given and taken by Marika, she controls it and she is the one who guides us in the game; two, the Greater Will doesn't care at all about the Lands Beetween, it's an entity beyond every other Outer God and, in fact, it just leaves this world and goes on to spread its influence in other Worlds as if nothing ever happened. The Elden Beast (which could be observing us through our eyes, this could be true) is just a miniscule fragment of the power that the Greater Will wields

[@ButcherGod]

You know what else is a gigantic lie in Elden Ring? That the Tree reincarnates/rebirths those that die. Who has been reborn by the tree in all of the ER history? Even before Godwin being put in the roots? I think that was the biggest lie that the Golden Order is based off of.

[@THETYMEKK12]

Never heard some of these theories, but something tells me you absolutely nailed this part of the lore :D

[@NickCombs]

I tend towards the idea that all of the gods (and by extension their vessels) are neither malevolent nor benevolent. They are forces of nature. It is the fan clubs that scare me, to quote a bumper sticker :) So unless the Golden Order (distinct from the Greater Will and Marika) is able to look through graced eyes, I tend to take it at face value as a symbol of inspiration and providence.

[@thetsarofall8666]

One of the things i ended up looking up in my own time was what the word "grace" actually means irl. Of course, like many words, grace has multiple meanings. Being graceful in ones movements, somone gracing us with their presence, etc. The most fitting one ive found is that grace is essentially the favor of god, essentially a blessing. I do find it interesting that in elden ring this blessing takes physical form in golden eyes, and being able to see the guidance of grace. Usually a blessing or favor of a god is a more metaphysical thing, but in elden ring it changes you physically and your perception of the world. It reminds me of how the fire giants are also physically affected by their god, litterally showing its face through their bodies, or even the glinstone sorcerers where, when exposed to glintstone for long enough, creatures begin being "corroded" by it, having crystals grow on their bodies.

[@AHumanJusticar]

Great points! It’s true, many of the Outer God’s Influences and other influences change not only the Lands Between but also the inhabitants. If you are in Liurnia Lakes, the stars shine brighter than anywhere else, if you’re near Ranni’s Cathedral, moon beams and the moon itself completely block out the Erdtree’s light. It’s interesting to look around and see the different ways the Land Between was shaped by the influences in that area. This design concept is very clever!

[@Gord-uq4fk]

You should also search the etymology of a word, look for anagrammatics, homonym and check out its respective Wikipedia, if there is one. You're missing out on a lot, understanding the definition is far from finding its meaning

[@egoborder3203]

great video! As always your ER videos are well thought out and presented It'd be great to have you stream the DLC, but you might want to consider when. If you do it immediately upon release, you might have less viewers as the fans are likely to be playing it themselves. You might want to do a private playthrough on your own to form your ideas, then do a public stream a week or so later. Either way, be sure to announce it ahead of time so we can tune in!

[@AHumanJusticar]

Thanks so much for watching! 😁 I may stream it but I’d have to figure out the logistics!

[@GodChaos333]

I just found you. Im very excited to see more from you. And great analysis and theory. I didnt notice the eye symbolizm in the runes.

[@kumorineleo]

It's a great theory that the Greater Will can see from anyone blessed with grace, thus exerting an omnipresent influence throughout the Lands Between. I still think that Marika is the one that gives and takes away grace, tho. In Ranni's questline, we aid Ranni in slaying her Two Fingers, and subsequently make her a god. However, grace never left the Tarnished, even though Ranni planned to rid the world of the Greater Will's influence. My guess is every Outer God needs a god to grant blessings to exert their influence on others. Marika grants grace, Shabriri grants frenzy, Mohg grants accursed blood or whatever, etc. This is all in service of each of their chosen Outer God.

[@DarthGoss]

Very cool and entertaining video. Your ideas are well crafted and in the end, lore speculation is about the journey not the destination. This was a great journey. Looking forward to your next video.

[@a-rah9001]

Also, great work at putting these together . Your theory helpes me fill out alot of blindspots in my understanding of the lore.

[@eldenringpvpenthusiast1710]

Iv'e watched the sun set many time in elden ring, I love the pathway of light cast upon the ocean. But some coincidental happened with one setting. I was at the first step, next to some eagles, watching to the west. The reason I do this is simply to wonder about the sun realm. But this time, the sun, when behind the dragon temple ruins island, cast a shadow directly where I was looking. It was creating an eclipse that you can see every dusk of day. I always liked theories that the seun realm had to do with farum azula, but this was a dragon temple causing an eclipse. Idk how many people have noticed the bridge of light caused by the sun at dusk, happens to look like it leads to roundtable hold, and in the opposite direction, isolated like the island, is farum azula, where the sun can always be seen. I think the sun realm has something to do more with the undead beings with the shields, and farum azula may have used to orbit with the sun, or was somewhere else on the theoretical equator that had to do with storms or dragons, before getting hit by a meteor. The only meteor iv'e seen is under Mohgwyn palace, under a huge crater in Caelid, surrounded by dragons and dragon hunters. The prison tower that overlooks the crater from Selia, has a spell called eternal darkness. Its like a black hole that sucks in even light, not just spells and incantations. Idk what it all means, but the sun over water being eclipsed is similar to marika's soreseal and all the effigies of martyrs and effigies of Marika, which is what they're called in the game tips. They have something to do with a connection to other worlds, but the eclipse martyr thing makes me think marika in some way sacrificed herself to beat the dragons. My only reason to this and I dont mind criticism, is because Placidusaax looks like a big forearm with its head being like a five fingered hand, like a flying evil hand, that holds a puppet cross(radagon), that holds up marika(the puppet). But now placidusaax is in a fingers crossed position because it lost full control of Marika, like 3 fingers got burned, and 2 fingers have trouble controlling a puppet. I also think she can come back from the dead, and sacrificing herself "inspires" her soldiers to do the same, "knowing" they'll come back. I forgot to mention the memory of grace looks like the bridge of light on water, and says something like, its all a cycle

[@asadabdaliskates]

Awesome theory! Hoping for more soon

[@coreyrachar9694]

This was really interesting. Look forward to watching more!

[@maleikharney4478]

Loved this video, really got me thinking. If we compare to our real world, our most stable form of currency is probably gold… the idea that the greater Will may see through the inhabitants of the lands between and thus gain knowledge and power - those with gold hold onto that knowledge and power to influence the world and pass on their wealth to their children. Honestly her spoken echos about becoming a lord or a god or be sacrificed is akin to the American dream - make money/ your own order or be sacrificed to those who have it. As explained by other comments, it affects the way in which we see the world. Those without money are abandoned by the system in place, or create their own system governed by other factors to rise to power - the outer god influences. Perhaps in a way you could say those with grace see a fanciful depiction of the world in order to perpetuate it, the erdtree being a symbol of faith, yet signs may point to it being an illusion given the actual tree can be seen surrounded by the glowing gold facade of the current erdtree. The Shadow of the Erdtree shows the gold coming from the trees, however neither are actually gold in color from what I can tell from the pictures provided. Perhaps this lends itself to the corruption of gold into fiat currency that doesn’t actually reflect the reality- a 1to1 exchange of gold for dollars. There is an even purer form of gold in Unalloyed gold which has not been corrupted by the fundamentalists - a true 1to1 that can cure the ails of outer god meddling. Perhaps I’m just yapping, but I find the connections interesting to explore. Thank you for the video again, and I welcome other interpretations !

[@zackdoom]

I have a feeling Marika thought the greater will was cool and would help the realms as a governing body, but then it wanted her children dead so she broke the death rune and schemed behind its back, unfortunately damning them all to us to kill them Theres some evidence for and against it though

[@heatheroutre]

The locations of Marika's eyes(assuming they are hers) would make for an interesting theory on her path to treachery. since the weaker eye is underground, perhaps that was the first eye to go. Showing she started by revisiting the past and then by visiting with her twins in their Haligtree with her stronger eye being sealed away. Perhaps in meeting with her heretical child, Miquella that she was fully resolved and trusted them to carry the future, one without the influence of Outer Gods and the Greater Will.

[@heatheroutre]

It would give characterization outside of her being a "might makes right" God but this could also be argued against by her quotes we get from Melina. But also people change and we even get the depiction of Gods being fickle by Goldmask, so it's entirely possible that as she blinded herself that she freed herself of the control of the Greater Will.

[@AHumanJusticar]

I’m definitely not done with this topic, there’s so many other aspects I’d love to continue exploring! Where the items are found, the color of the gold wrapped around the eyes being different for Radagon vs. Marika, so much more! I may have to make a part 2 ☺️

[@hhowdy]

What a great theory Elden Ring has been out for 2 years and think I can’t learn anything new but one point in the video stuck out to me that the scar and scorseals are actually Marikas and Radagons real eyes and that’s such a cool idea because how did they get to where they are when we find them it’s such a cool thought

[@AHumanJusticar]

Thank you so much! :) It's been in the drafts for a while now but it took a lot longer to organize my thoughts than I first anticipated.

[@Agueart]

Video is poppinc glad to see the hard work paid off and the comments section is poppin as well. Had to leave some love for the algorithm gods.

[@caliaid]

Awesome video! I think Tarnished Archaeologist has a video on who can see the Erdtree (and grace) and that the tree itself may only be visible to those who can see Grace…

[@caliaid]

Re: you indicate Marika does not control grace, but doesn’t she say “I divest each of thee of thy grace…” - so wouldnt that mean she CAN give or take it?

[@redheadsilver8041]

@@caliaid She could be lying, to give a narrative to the tarnished, but in truth she would be "hijacking" the call of grace by the GW, through the roundtable hold that she prepared. Yet, the fingers claim the GW has not abandoned the tarnished yet the fingers are lost once we reach the erdtree, trying to contact the GW. I think both sides, Marika and the Fingers, are bluffing to a degree, creating narratives to their advantage and using the other to their advantage. Marika by using the call of grace from the fingers/GW/Elden Beast and the fingers pretending to be in communication with the GW and speaking for it, but in reality being long "senile" and "Lost their purpose", as well as being unable to contact the GW. The fingers are the discredited "experts" of the old order. Somehow, I don't think Marika would call back someone like the Dung Eater. Also, we are, alongside Godfrey and Goldmask, among the last tarnished to be called, meaning we are the "bottom of the barrel" for the GW and also a useful tool to it once we prove our worth. Also, remember, Enia is working with Marika secretly, the game gives you indications of it.

[@MrQuickrebuttle]

Can't take away my grace if I don't have any eyes!

[@icelusthefish]

Dragon communion and joining mohgs blood cult also result in changes to your tarnished's eyes, and especially the blood linking you to the formless mother gives credence to the idea that the influence of outer gods show up in their followers' eyes. Also malenia's eyes as well as some of her daughters eyes are rotted out, but not millicent's, who resists the rot the strongest. Much to consider

[@AHumanJusticar]

And consider this, if runes are stored in the eyes, then Great Runes would be stored in the demigods eyes. Which makes sense for Malenia, as her Great Rune is covered in Scarlet Rot.

[@s-nooze]

Master Hewg also has no eyes, but he has no yellow grace either though he must have at one point. I think this is what he prays about, even in anger at his god abandoning him. I think the way it works is you have to sacrifice some part of yourself for the god to take hold and guide you. Look at the giants who have to give up their stomachs and innards for the Fell God. I don't think it's a coincidence either that Placidusax is missing heads, maube that was a sign of faith and sacrifice for his god.

[@someoneinsomewhere8079]

Wait, beast eye? I didn't notice until now but... That's a gloam eye. Maliketh took the eye out of the Gloam Eyed Queen. Even the marks in the eye resemble those of Melina in the Frenzy Flame Ending.

[@ADHDZach]

As wildly speculative as it is, you can't help but notice and love the similarity to bloodborne in how important eyes are. In Yharnam, the more eyes on the inside you have (insight), the more you see what's really going on. In the lands between, we have to have our eyes tarnished to see what's really going on.

[@Gord-uq4fk]

If by tarnished you mean graced, I'm confused. If by tarnished you mean desecrated or functionally ruined, then yeah. Eyes are fallible faculties, even in real life where their perception range is abysmally finite in scope of known electromagnetic radiation and even then further limited by chromaticism (colour blindness) vision acuity and cognitive processing. We consider them a raw premiere tool of perceptive utility when in truth as we understand it they are a blatantly restrictive funnel filtering out 99% of all there may be into 300 nanometers of wave length , 3 cones of color and a perhaps even a few dimensions. They are incredibly restrictive and bottlenecked in the scope of true objective nature and objective reality of such exists. Just some epistemology 101. Now in elden ring, it's even easier to make an abstract extrapolation to how eyes are functionally restrictive to knowing what is truly contained within reality, when you consider breaking suspension of disbelief and remembering at its core, a binary summation of 0 & 1. Just as one value in code changes visible attribute from true to false this runs through an interpretor and at the source, resides as a 0 instead of 1. That's it. So since eyes can't perceive this meta source or form of objective reality you can see how they serve less to see truth and reality and more as exploitable hijacked antennas/receivers being useless to see what is there and essentially often man in the middle attacked to deceive and manipulate you. Why do you need to see, when the world isn't made up of textures and assets fundamentally, but binary octets you can't visually observe through the eyes, anyway. In Elden Ring, occular vision of the eye variety serve only as tools to manipulate and deceive one into deluding their notion of perceived reality, not means to the objective end. Thus by removing them you will be closer to gnosis, as the loss of true info is outweighed by the loss of fallible, false hypothetical potential. Addition by subtraction.

[@james0489]

Omg is that why you can see the guiding grace? Because the greater will is in your eyes!?

[@affanshaikh5326]

+ Gideon and his ear motifs

[@jap7373]

Great video! I never realized the iris of Marika's seals were in the shape of the rune of death

[@emmacole9044]

Thank you to Jack the mimick for this channel recommendation, definitely checking out your other vids

[@myskinwasdullgold]

Probably my favorite video so far!! ❤

[@Nihil847]

Yo! I had similar ideas but haven’t been able to make it into a coherent theory. Videos like yours makes this game so much fun and makes me want to make my own! Great work!

[@AHumanJusticar]

I’m glad to hear it! Thanks for watching 😀

[@falgalhutkinsmarzcal3962]

In 1.00 the Shield of the Guilty outright states that the thorn-blinded woman depicted on the shiled is a goddess that came from another land. Perhaps the dlc will indicate that Marika was blinded by the Thorns that are used for punishing people in the Lands Between.

[@AHumanJusticar]

I did a whole thorn sorcery video previously but I think there’s still going to be more to uncover! Hopefully we get some lore in the DLC 😀

[@falgalhutkinsmarzcal3962]

@@AHumanJusticar cool. What is interesting is that the Shield of the Guolty was revised to say the woman depicted was a maiden BEFORE she was reborn. Could it be that Marika was punished by being blinded by thorns for something she did, but then she rebirthed herself using the Amber egg? What if she and the man in the dlc (with the golden branches through his eye) were both punished by the Greater Will for a blasphemy they committed? Seems to me that Marika was a very bad girl who repeatedly defied the Greater Will under different guises.

[@harleyspawn]

I propose that grace is the result of being given a goal by the Greater Will. As long as you haven't reached that goal, your eyes will shine with grace. As soon as you've reached that goal, you lose grace until you have a new goal. The lie is that your goal belongs to you; it belongs to the Greater Will. If any of the empyreans accomplished their goal, they would lose grace and be banished from the lands between, too. That's why most of them don't die when we defeat them, they fade away and speak to us one more time (or turn into a flower). They've still got a goal, so they can still be revived. Maybe Morgott reached his goal when his daddy acknowledged him in the throne room, since he actually faded away in his withered from? But that's a great scene where you can see Godfrey's grace go from pointing at his son to pointing at us.

[@danteguinazzo6244]

I think faith is stored in the eyes in these games. That's what it means to be chosen by a god. Your faith influences both how you see the world, and the vision you have for the future. Those with grace in their eyes see the greater wills path to the elden ring. Those with the flame of frenzy, can only imagine an immolated world. So characters who blind themselves or use visual defense to ward off divine influence are common. Ijis mirror helm, blindfolds being a default character creation option, ect. A lot of the games deeper metaphorical themes are about how belief shapes cultural orders, and vice versa. How these outer forces can make us see the world and the future in particular ways. And how those views lead us to reshape reality in certain ways. How we see the world literally affects how we can rebuild the elden ring.

[@joepeluso4738]

Incredible theory and incredible video to support it❤

[@Luaeria]

I would definitely like to watch you livestream your first experiences with the DLC!

[@AHumanJusticar]

Definitely considering it! Thanks for watching my video ☺️

[@ButcherGod]

Mirror helm, a cooler version of a tinfoil hat.

[@dirmusloner7963]

Excellent job, I am keen to see more of your videos.

[@AHumanJusticar]

Thanks so much!

[@Carl-vx9ws]

Miquella's Needle also lends to this theory because it doesn’t say it but I could have sworn I’d seen another video stating that this required insertion into the eye. ✌🏼

[@Jokersxwolf]

I'm 400hrs game time.. I've never once felt that, grace acted as how people said it should act. Everyone can't see it or see it anymore. And the one time in game where you see someone else's grace via Godfrey boss fight but you gotta kill them. Rather get a better answer for how grace works among tarnished. Grace shouldn't point to a location you've already accomplished Why point at all to castle morn? By seeing the guide of grace at 1 node and not seeing the guide of grace at another node and then seeing it again is even contradiction its self And if recusant invasions are a tarnished way of kill or be killed to grow, you'd think mimic grace should point towards each other much like Godfreys grace........ Grace is a lie It's a map of influence/infection maybe for greater will to see from space idk But grace nodes won't point in clusters or a close by to a spreading/pointing node. nodes of grace only points if it can spread further in that direction. Much like a fungul root going threw a maze.

[@AHumanJusticar]

Excellent points! I wanted to include a section talking about the rays of grace and how it’s a bit contradictory, maybe in another video!

[@Jokersxwolf]

​@@AHumanJusticar thank you, much appreciated 🙏 hope to see the video soon 😀 😊 ☺ I'm addicted 😄 thank you for your contributions to the community. I found your video was refreshing 😌 elden ring needs more eyes looking at fresh ideas 👀 we are all saying what the last person said. ❤

[@dgalloway107]

This connects my own thoughts about the frenzied flame just being an overly concentrated form of Grace, with the Three Fingers being just a malformed Finger set due to their small size and therefore relatively much higher "blood grace toxicity level" lets call it. The remainder in an equation that could never be fully balanced.

[@Greaseball01]

I wonder what the implications are for the frenzied flame because I've always suspected it is a sort of corrupted version of the greater will, given all the similarities and that it actually produces the gold tinted excrement - not yellow, gold.

[@matiasluukkanen7718]

It is difference between gold and sulphur. Greater Will is God of gold and occult properties of gold/eternal life and perfection. God of frenzied flame is therefore god of occult properties of sulphur. Aka, melting and burning processes in alchemy.

[@Gord-uq4fk]

Loved the video, over the last 6 months my view of the motifs in Elden Ring have sculpted cohesively into my own interpreted fictional analog for so many core historical & philosophical quandries, which was certainly by design. The potential for individual personalized extrapolation to each of the higher level abstract divisions such as metaphysical, ontological, existentialism and epistemological have been fascinating, if this was 10 years ago, I would have probably written on it for every Philo paper I had the freedom to explore literary subject. Eyes are fallible faculties, even in real life where their perception range is abysmally finite in scope of known electromagnetic radiation and even then further limited by chromaticism (colour blindness) vision acuity and cognitive processing. We consider them a raw premiere tool of perceptive utility when in truth as we understand it they are a blatantly restrictive funnel filtering out 99% of all there may be into 300 nanometers of wave length , 3 cones of color and a perhaps even a few dimensions. They are incredibly restrictive and bottlenecked in the scope of true objective nature and objective reality of such exists. Just some epistemology 101. Now in elden ring, it's even easier to make an abstract extrapolation to how eyes are functionally restrictive to knowing what is truly contained within reality, when you consider breaking suspension of disbelief and remembering at its core, a binary summation of 0 & 1. Just as one value in code changes visible attribute from true to false this runs through an interpretor and at the source, resides as a 0 instead of 1. That's it. So since eyes can't perceive this meta source or form of objective reality you can see how they serve less to see truth and reality and more as exploitable hijacked antennas/receivers being useless to see what is there and essentially often man in the middle attacked to deceive and manipulate you. Why do you need to see, when the world isn't made up of textures and assets fundamentally, but binary octets you can't visually observe through the eyes, anyway. In Elden Ring, occular vision of the eye variety serve only as tools to manipulate and deceive one into deluding their notion of perceived reality, not means to the objective end. Thus by removing them you will be closer to gnosis, as the loss of true info is outweighed by the loss of fallible, false hypothetical potential. Addition by subtraction.

[@AuUntaris]

Great video, from now on sites of grace are sights of grace. Eyes, fingers, hearts, fingerprints (pun intended) of GRRM all over the Lands Between.

[@Peacefrog91]

I've been getting so many small lore channels to watch ❤

[@AHumanJusticar]

Happy you found mine! 😁

[@birthrite8254]

Whoa! This has big implications and I am convinced.

[@sentientrock7]

holy shit i hope everyone watches this, that was so interesting

[@Shanesawendsley]

Hundreds of hours in elden ring and I've still never seen a golden eyed rune skull.

[@exquisitedoomlapointe185]

You're definitely correct in my view. I was going down the rabbit hole of thinking the greater will might not even exist and is just marika's will but you destroyed that theory. I do think the GW is completely gone when we play though.

[@AHumanJusticar]

I think the way in which the Greater Will exists in the Lands Between is being threatened at the start of the game. With Ranni pursing the dark path of the Empyrean and Miquella attempting to grow the Haligtree, the reason the Tarnished are called is to keep the GW in power by rebuilding the Elden Ring. Just a theory though ☺️

[@exquisitedoomlapointe185]

@@AHumanJusticar That's the fiun part in these games. Sometimes i just go hog wild with theories just to see where it goes just to stumble on one item description that invalidates the whole thing. Some might find that infuriating but the process is the fun part to me :D

[@AHumanJusticar]

Oh I agree! Some of my favorite theories are hated by the majority of the community and easily disproven but they’re so fun 😅😁

[@exquisitedoomlapointe185]

@@AHumanJusticar Even if i were to disagree with someone's theory, sometimes they'll interpret story elements in ways i'd never think of in a million years yet is still valid, those moments are just badass even if it's a little crazy :D

[@ihaveouid3518]

I agree with this theory but I am also confused. If Grace is stored in the eyes, then why don’t all tarnished have golden eyes?

[@AHumanJusticar]

Great question! I believe it’s because we are in fact Tarnished, not just symbolically in name. To become tarnished means to lose one’s luster or color. That’s my guess anyways! 😁

[@Rageikari]

Ive had some similar thoughts and this has both gone even further and inspired me more. ITS PEAAAAAAK

[@Darkheart00]

Rage man we miss you, come back pls and make videos/podcasts. I’d have loved to hear your thoughts/analysis on the Shadow of The Erdtree trailer and Miyazaki interviews :DD

[@GB-sh9st]

thank you for the great video, as always

[@_aibber]

I'd say that the "Lands Between Rune" (which can only be obtained as a keepsake) pretty much confirms that grace does indeed reside in people's eyes. The japanese description says that it is a "Blessing that dwells in the eyes of each person of the In Between" (狭間の人々の瞳に宿る祝福). Interestingly, the description in the keepsake menu talks about it in the present tense, but the in-game description is in the past tense (Blessing said to have once dwelled in the eyes of each person [...]), perhaps in reference to the tarnished having no grace.

[@adamkorzon2972]

They screwed up grace in context.And why have we not got ours back?Why do our eyes not shine?Why should people look down on us fighting all their battles and strip us of it?Then looked down apo after having been stripped for no reason?Too many inconsistencies.

[@SebTed-qu2el]

What if, the secrect that Miyazaki said hasn't been found yet, is because we havent gathered enough runes yet.... in our eyes? Has anybody maxed out the rune limit, and then started ooking at the Lands Between with a new pair of...... Eyes.....

[@F3nres]

Everyone knows Runes are stored in the balls.

[@RumCzar]

Malenia has no eyes. Is that why she has no empyrean shadow? Where is Miquella's shadow? Great video!

[@xflip94]

If it was stored in the eyes, our characters eyes would shine too

[@AHumanJusticar]

It’s just a guess but I believe it’s because we are in fact Tarnished, not just symbolically in name. To become tarnished means to lose one’s luster or color. But I could be wrong! Thanks for watching 😄

[@jamie8703]

So I have this notion that the greater will is actually an embodiment of internal conflict desguised as perfect order. GRRM stated "the only conflict worth writing about is the human heart in conflict with itself". (I entirely disagree with this, but that isn't relevant) Grace guides us to battles meant to progress us toward the elden throne and Godfrey's grace points him toward us. the various phases of the golden order are defined by conflict and the following evolution (Marika v everyone: erdtree beginnings crucible end, Marika v Rennala: age of plenty, Marika v Radagon: age of fundamentalism and shattering). The crucible is also indicated to be a wild period of conflict and regression. Grace seems to be the most recent tool of the greater will to drive the lands between toward eternal conflict and, therefore, eternal evolution.

[@redheadsilver8041]

Aka "causality" and "regression", the two fundamental forces which define the workings of the Elden Ring.

[@jamie8703]

@redheadsilver8041 I can't belive I didn't mention that lol

[@a-rah9001]

Mohgs audience with the formless mother is another example of outer Gods influencing the world through "vision" and blindness and sight(site of grace). As this half blindness can be a way for him to see her body to draw from it Also, melenia is blind as well her helmet is covering her face, and in her phase 2, you can see the rot that in her goddess form, she has empty eyes as well I think greeter will changes the perception of the people in the lands between to carry out its deeds, but marika needed a bypass the system designed a breach to effect the Tarnished's perception and influence their will. Also, read about Gideon scrab theory. i think it gives us a great look into how greater will can see everything that we do and change them for the order of the world that he wants.

[@Gord-uq4fk]

Neat! I like your take on Mohg's Half Blindness to communicare newd t fe eh !. l ound out or a while all of the Empyreans are literally blind. Doubt but IF not devoid of their eyes. 1. Marika 🎳 2. GEQ. ☠ 3. Ranni 👩‍🦰🔥 4. Malenia ☣👩‍🦯😵 5. Miquella 🧎‍♂️😞

[@a-rah9001]

@@Gord-uq4fk this is the most peculiar replay i have ever gotten to my youth comments thatn you for this

[@baitbait65]

Thanks to Jack for the recommendation. Great video, great ideas. Cheers

[@AHumanJusticar]

Thanks so much for watching!!

[@goldenbough6563]

Great work on the eyes. The nature of gold is one of the enduring mysteries of elden ring. Both Farum Azula and Leyndell are encrusted in gold suggesting this material accrued to those at the apex of political power and was important to them. The elites of both places used it to enhance longevity, though in vastly different ways. The forge of the giants would be an excellent tool for producing refined gold and the threat this construction poses to the erd tree - the golden tree - suggests this could be its true purpose. I’ve long suspected the longevity enjoyed in the lands between was in part a physiological reaction caused by proximity to the erd tree and its minor offshoots. All those golden turds. Also, the golden mote that lands on the player in the opening cinematic looks very similar to tree pollen. Even today, in RL, people have been known to ingest powdered gold in the belief it will make them live longer. A good topic for a short video might be a return to the subject of the smouldering butterfly. You were the first, to my knowledge, to connect that to Melina. Now, many commentators are impulsively linking it to Messmer. Your thoughts on this matter would be interesting.

[@m33tballa]

I don't believe the theory that the greater will can see thru out eyes. If that was the case, ranni would never tell us what she did or even enlist our help in the first place. We also would not be allowed to inherit the frenzied flame but the greater will didn't send anything to stop us who accepted the flame

[@AHumanJusticar]

Just a reminder, Melina DOES try to stop you multiple times before you accept the Frenzied Flame and she vows to find you and give you destined death at the ending. She very much is linked to the Erdtree, Greater Will, and Queen Marika.

[@m33tballa]

@@AHumanJusticar Melina is only adamant against the frenzied flame. She doesn't have any qualms with rannis path or anyone else afaik. Even dungeaters ending. Melina has a connection to Marika for sure, she's probably her daughter. But we shouldn't assume she's an agent of Marika or even the greater will. All of the demigods have their own agenda. Melina only cares that we don't accept frenzied flame.

[@jamesarthurkimbell]

And you, too, can hide your eyes from the Greater Will- with today's sponsor, NordVPN

[@AHumanJusticar]

😂😂😂

[@Greaseball01]

I thought the finger readers just had full black eyes

[@havanaradio]

Hey man, they were promised eternal life and technically they are still alive.

[@bplus2625]

Lies?! I gotta have faith Ooh, I gotta have faith Because I gotta have faith, faith, faith I gotta have faith, faith, faith Ahhhhhh

[@eldensquall6158]

A lie will always be a lie!

[@D.boys6t9]

Sounding like a GRACELESS tarnishes smh, bet you can’t even see the light of grace

[@trbajuice8060]

Wrong. Runes are stored in the balls.

[@xshadowxsoldierx]

The fact you willingly mispronounced Melina's name several times despite the correct pronunciation of the name is in the game just pisses me off.

[@66something_77]

Blasphemous

[@TheAzul_Indigo]

I have an issue with theory 2. It was my understanding that the full name of grace is “grace of the Erdtree” and Marika has the ability to grant or revoke it as the vessel (read: agent) of the greater will and curator of the Erdtree from the crucible that was before. I can agree that the presence of grace in the eyes denotes influence of the greater will, and more specifically being bound to the Elden ring. In the lands between as we find them, having grace grants eternal resurrection. We see that when graceless tarnished die, they don’t come back.

[@ihateyoutube772]

Here because someone gave a shout-out and link to the video on their Community. Great theory