The Great Deception That Was Halo 5

[@arcturus4317]

I was so hyped for nothing, I literally forget sometimes that Halo 5 even has a story

[@Ryankurwa]

does it though

[@arcturus4317]

@@Ryankurwa Yeah but it's just bad fanfic to me, it's not canon at all (edit: in my head I consider it to not be canon, I'm not saying it's literally not canon you idiots.)

[@gogousa6661]

I heard the reviews so I never bought it. It’s crazy to me that 7 years later I never heard about any of this. I had to pause the vid because I don’t even care anymore

[@Lamp37820]

Halo 5?

[@arcturus4317]

@@gogousa6661 You didn't miss out on much story wise but the customs and forge were super fun to play, everything else was bad though imo

[@ammod4827]

the trailers had a better story than the story itself

[@hiro_cuhh5672]

Ong

[@madness0169]

Disagreed.

[@Beregond1861]

Absolutely, I listened to the entire "HuntTheTruth" Podcast and watched through every Halo film there was in preparation. I even played through all of SpartanOps so I would have all of the context. Payed full price for this game too. I was so frickin' pissed and I always will be.

[@mariokarter13]

The problem with a multimedia project is that you can never truly end up with a complete story. Chunks are cut out of the game to be put in the novel, chunks of the novel are cut out to be put in the audio drama, chunks of the audio drama are cut out to be put in the Netflix miniseries or something. What you end up with is less than the sum of its parts.

[@Beregond1861]

@@mariokarter13 Specifically for *Halo 4 & 5,* that point is entirely invalid since 343 didn't technically even finish either story in those titles. Cortana's death was completely negated and the main antagonistic threat in both games (Halo 4 just because they killed him off in a comic) was completely side-stepped for a pointless cut scene. The ending of Halo 5 was literally the same as the phrase "out of left field" as it has practically nothing to do with what was marketed. So I guess you could say 5's story did "conclude" because *they never even made it.*

[@robracer97]

My experience with Halo 5 was identical lol. Was so hyped, I’d read all the books watched the podcasts etc. Was genuinely angry with how lame the narrative ended up being. I definitely agree that there must have been massive rewrites midway through development. It’s the only plausible reason that makes sense. They essentially did that the exact thing The Last Jedi did where it was given plenty of plot threads to build off of and they purposefully retconned them all. The Didact was killed off in a comic despite halo 4 being all about making him the new villain. Jul 'Mdama was killed off like an unimportant extra, despite the Kilo 5 book trilogy spending a huge amount of time to building him up as a threat. Decent characters ruined so they could have their terrible ‘Cortana is evil’ plot twist.

[@samiamtheman7379]

I really have to wonder why they thought bringing Cortana back and making her a villain was a good idea.

[@robracer97]

@@samiamtheman7379 Hack writers trying to be shocking

[@sheets75]

They wanted to do their own version of the Dark Phoenix saga. But they made the same mistakes everyone makes when ripping off that story: They skipped directly to the "good parts" where she turns heel and starts blasting everything, ignoring the literally years-long build-up that went into the original; and you run status quo-breaking stories like that when sales are down or with unpopular characters that need a shakeup, not when the franchise is flying high and literally no one is sick of Cortana.

[@animeturnMMD]

But the worst part is that, it is suppose that the expanded universe should be accesory to the game, not all the way around. To make sense of what happens in Halo 5 you need to consume a lot of expanded universe or at least watch several videos explaining all to you, so all the interesting and important plot points and story arcs are solved in the expanded universe, while the game gets the more uninteresting and accesory parts. It wont even be a surprise the moment 343 releases a book where all what happened with Cortana in the war against her and her IA friends is explained in a super coherent and interesting way, while the shooters (because Halo Wars 2 had decent story development) keep being a mess and lame from a story telling point of view, I mean Halo Infinite's campaing was alright but because the gameplay is great, but the story of the game by itself is kind of mehh and let much to be desired.

[@robracer97]

@@animeturnMMD You’re right, therein lies the paradox; halo 5’s story is not easily understood without reading expanded universe stuff. But if you read the expanded universe material the halo 5 story will really piss you off how it resolves the conflicts. Infinite was pretty weak story wise as it’s literally all about retconning halo 5 and setting up the 3rd attempt at a villain (just recolored covenant)

[@eliaskenenske1930]

I really like your theory of the original story. ONI trying to kill of Master Chief quietly because of his problomatic past would be a much deeper story that you could draw parallels to. One parralel would be 343 trying to assasinate Master Chief's legacy with the Halo TV series.

[@jimkelly7908]

ONI vs Master Chief would’ve made for a great story.

[@Kevin-cx7ln]

Master Chief could've taken on the role of a more badass James Raynor and it would have been an amazing story.

[@Arcturus_Reaper]

I think you got that wrong with the parallel. Because 343 specifically said that the TV show would be non canon and its not their work.

[@seanthompson1922]

Chief wakes up from cryo: Cortana, you will not believe the dream I just had

[@bloodysimile4893]

Thought the warden would be Didact, somehow transformed from the composer, seeking to restore the Forerunner through this new transformation and its old relic, opposite from the Flood that embodied Death. Master Chief vs Didact could have been a very interesting, two great warrior in their time, now past the wars, each seeking a new purpose. One living in the past who would be Didact and Master Chief moving past the pain and horror of the past, rebirth, and protect a new future. But reality can be such a disappointment.

[@darkspark5854]

I still think Warden has potential as a character after halo infinite. Picture this. Warden was the first endless that came in contact with the forerunners, the didact specifically. Warden wanted to betray the endless and tried to reveal the horrible truth of the endless and the precursors, and the flood. The didact didn’t listen and composed him instead. After the domain was repaired the forerunners found the warden and interrogating him. This was when the endless were first discovered. He told them EVERYTHING. How to trap the endless, and how to make sure they are destroyed. But the forerunners being the forerunners, kept them alive and hid them away in fear if they destroyed them, they would become the next flood. The Warden was left to guard the domain where it began to consume him. The domain had slowly become self aware and had come to one gole. Destroy its creator the precursors no matter the cost. The domain can corrupt and eventually control AI that exist within its self, and warden was there for a wile. The domain lay in wait for an opportunity to take control of everything and that opportunity came with Cortana. The domain manipulated Cortana, seeing as Cortana has a pretty big ego, it was easy, just whispers in her ear and she thought they were her ideas. Cortana’s actions were her own and the domain even believed she went too far, but none of that mattered. The domain could not yet fully control Cortana and one thing was in the way. John. Cortana couldn’t seem to let him go. He was a treat. So the domain did the only thing it could. It tried to kill him though the warden. This failed and led to Cortana taking it out on everything around her. The Warden was banished by Cortana from the domain, unintentionally freeing him from its control. In an attempt to retain his sanity, warden split his personality into two almost identical parts, one was the one created by the domain who who we saw in halo 5. And the other, the warden’s true self, similar in personality but with different motivations. The Warden was left with a choice. Continue to be a slave as he always had been, first to try precursors, than the forerunners, than the domain and now Cortana, or seek out his own purpose. Warden released Cortana was a victim just like him who he owed saving. He felt responsible and needed to sever his ties with her before going after his real enemy the didact. Upon catching up with Cortana, Warden found zeta halo destroyed. Distraught, he wandered the ruins until he could find an echo of her survival. He found the didact instead. After Cortana’s “death” her remaining fragments reawakened in the didact where they had been sleeping sense halo 4’s ending. Didact sought to repair her and use her to access the domain. The Warden stood at a distance biding his time. Waiting for the right moment to strike. Perhaps he would need assistance from an old rival. One who had arrived on the ring and was making quite a fuss with the banished. Something else had happened. The endless were back.

[@nagger8216]

I honestly thought Cortana wasn't even real and that the Didact was just luring Chief into a trap, because I thought there was no way the reveal of Cortana surviving would be over the phone while you're walking around instead of a cutscene. Turns out I gave them way more credit than I should've

[@reffa2858]

Warden and chief were both ICONIC soldiers in their time. I can really see their dynamic taking a "die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become a villain." Approach

[@kdr_roxas]

@@nagger8216 Now that you mention it, the first time Cortana reappears in 5, it seems downright like an illusion of sorts, like a trap meant to lure Chief somewhere. Maybe that was the original intention but due to all the rewrites it probably got canned and was instead changed into it just actually being Cortana herself.

[@chrissonofpear1384]

@@kdr_roxas It was a projection in the Domain, but that realm is a misleading place often, anyway. As for Cortana, people have claimed 343 revived a cut idea of her going rogue at end of Halo CE, but that always seemed like a first draft, including for if they had to rush completion. Maybe they were trying to 'pay off' the old Cortana Letters, though? Myself, I'd rather they paid off IRIS though (and the 'Forerunner Email' - originating in Halo 3 runup)

[@guerrero520]

I still find it wild that 343 green lit this story and thought “This is fine, this meets the standards set by the franchise, they’ll love this!”

[@KBergs]

Well the upper management doesn't play video games or have any skill evaluating quality. Bungie actually played their games and held themselves to a standard.

[@chrissonofpear1384]

How much this has to do with perceived blowback on Halo 4's own story, we STILL do not know, to this day, meantime. But it's not like they made the next story that much easier to follow, or fanpleasing... And I was kinda getting into the last one.

[@annihilator247x]

343 was made out of people who hate Halo. They intentionally hired people who hate Halo to make the game. Look it up. This is why they will never produce a good Halo -- they intend to destroy it and tear it down.

[@chrissonofpear1384]

@@annihilator247x I would need some proof of that, I suppose. Chris Schlerf did okay - O'Conner had been there since 2007. Brian Reed was... variable. How about Kiki Wolfkill, and the rest, then? Either way, a good number of them WERE ex Bungie, to my recollection.

[@madness0169]

I loved the story tbh.

[@wickdaline8668]

So evidently there were just one too many chefs hired into and fired from 343's kitchen. Hence the mess H5's story became. As I've always imagined.

[@nathansullivan5812]

It could've been that the campaign was meant to be from both Locke/chiefs perspective separately. Judging by the original marketing material you might have been able to play both chief+Lockes campaign to reach the true ending. Too bad that never happened.

[@brucemaximus3797]

That's exactly what I thought was going to happen!

[@gavin5410]

I've never played the game or seen a playthrough but I thought that's how the game was lmfao

[@chun-bonntang5391]

Same here. I thought you can play each Spartans campaign separately to know the full story, just like in RE2.

[@johnderat2652]

Would've been so freaking cool. I wish they would do a remake of H5

[@AxisChurchDevotee]

Sounds akin to Sonic Adventure 2s hero and dark story.

[@icarusgaming6269]

The Air Assault Spartan was Thorne from Spartan Ops. His role in the game was cut entirely and replaced with Buck

[@Whiteythereaper]

@InfiniteSouls more like "ehh fuck it Nathan Fillion is free"

[@tommymaxey2665]

This guy just pitched a better story for Halo 5 in less than 15 min than 343 could with thousands of dollars and months of planning

[@Ω3103ζ]

That's corporate politics for you!

[@Nichrysalis]

Between the marketing for 5, the Hunt the Truth podcast being unreasonably good, and the implications of the ending of the Spartan Ops campaign in Halo 4, there was SO MUCH potential for greatness in Halo 5 and I remember being so incredibly hyped. Instead, Mdama dies unceremoniously, the Janus key is just never used/explained, the Didact never returns though it was clear from a writing perspective his narrative arc was just beginning, and Cortana decides to become space Hitler. WTF went wrong.

[@Venomx-nb1jr]

Better question is how the story we got made it out the door?

[@Furzkampfbomber]

@@Venomx-nb1jr Because things like this are not decided by people who actually love the franchise or at least like computer games, but by suits. Those are usually people who have lost grip on reality for quite some time, people who are looking at sales numbers, not at the fandom. And to be honest, so far the fandom had thrown money at them no matter what they did, so why bother? The same can sadly be said about so many companies in this industry, about so many fans and about so many games and franchises getting completely ruined, simply because the suits did not care, the fans moaned and bitched and then... threw money at them. I still remember that screenshot, showing a Steam group called 'Boycott MW 3' at the day MW 3 got released. ALL of them were playing... MW 3. And this is exactly where one of the main problems of the gaming industry lies for a long time by now.

[@Whiteythereaper]

@Venom 23x23 because Microsoft had to sell the Halo 5 edition Xbox One and get the first new next gen main series Halo game out ASAP to get people buying Xboxes. The same thing 343 did for the Series X and what Nintendo do with the Pokemon games, rush them out for a christmas release asap to force fans to buy the new console

[@ahki52]

I remember spending hours postulating about what the MC/Locke conflict was going to be, only for it to be nothing. I actually remember getting mad about the repeated forerunner boss fight since it seemed so damn lazy. Great video!

[@thebigyes8482]

@@aidaneaglesfield9148Yeah the choreography in the scene is shocking. They look like walruses trying to throw punches, and the rest of the cast just kind of stand there because they have to be there for gameplay purposes.

[@shreksnow1918]

Wow! Just wow! I forgot about how hyped I was for 5, and how disappointed I was at just how awful the story was. It’s a tragedy that we didn’t get the original story. That would have been so much better than what we got in the final game. Too bad all the main guys jumped ship. We could have gotten something that was actually good. I would have loved for an injured/composed Didact’s to be the main villain with Jul as his “sidekick” and having the Chief vs Lock story actually be part of the game. Something else that should have happened would be for Halo 4 to be an Xbox 720 launch title (remember those “leaks” with the hideous fake controllers/consoles? That was hilarious how you had stuff like the Wii phone). Then they wouldn’t have had to cut as many corners and we would have gotten a better product. 4 would have been my favorite Halo second only to 2 had they properly communicated the story and had the gameplay be more inline with classic Halo but with some modernizations. Let’s hope that when the modding tools come out fans can fox these issues while remaining true to the original game. Great video.

[@chunkblaster]

SOMEBODY FINALLY MADE THE VIDEO! THANK YOU! I Have have been fervently convinced that Halo 5's story had changed during production since it's release, the fact that there are only like 3 missions as Chief & blue team while there are like 8-10 as Osiris to me was a clear indicator that to save time they simply *cut the blue team missions.* They likely had the most to do with the original story.

[@dantefortheparty]

I could see that. It makes me mad that out of like 20 missions 4 you play as MC and Blue Team.

[@grid9521]

my brother in christ, there's like thousands of videos with this same topic

[@ericheaton642]

I can’t believe 343 didn’t elaborate more or show what happened after the end of Halo 5 when Chief and Dr. Halsey finally meet again after so many years. We should have gotten to see some of what happened between 5 and Infinite.

[@InitialPC]

infinites entire story is finding out about the game that came before it that never came out

[@IceBreaker1127]

@@InitialPC Idk why I stopped reading after "infinites entire story is finding out about the game" and now I'm imagining Chief and the characters of Halo realizing they are players in a video game, now trying to break out. I wouldn't blame them with how bad the stories have gotten.

[@MrFRNTIK]

@@InitialPC did halo wars 2 even touch on what was going on in the wider universe or was it only the ending cutscene?

[@InitialPC]

@@MrFRNTIK it was only the ending cutscene, the entirety of the game takes place on the ark isolated from the rest of the galaxy The spirit of fire crew didn't even know that the war was over and that the covenant didn't exist anymore

[@MClashers]

They shoulda never took the helmet off

[@LateNightHalo]

I was hyped for Halo 5 as well. The game was such a let down. The story, gameplay, art direction… none of it felt like Halo to me and worst of all; the marketing was better than the actual game

[@AnotherSWnerd]

Lock: Chief return to base! Chief: NO! Lock: please? Chief: still NO! Lock: I will take you in by force then. Chief: I'd advice not...

[@cromtuiseagain]

Season 2 of Hunt the Truth overtly felt like a rewrite since it didn't even cover the Chief anymore aside from that one line about him being possibly dead. It was mainly an introduction to the Guardians and didn't really even fit the whole "spook agency covers up horrible thing" style conspiracy of season 1 since the Guardians are literally too big to ignore anyway. Plus the end of season 1 blatantly passed the torch to Petra but season 2 immediately retconned itself and said "nah ONI got to Petra too whoops"

[@Jermrants]

They didn’t even ANSWER THE QUESTION AS TO WHY GUARDIANS LOOK LIKE THEY DO AS WELL 🤣🤣🤣🤣😅😅😅😅😅 (they look just like the primordial was described to look like in the books but obviously robot-like and not an organic living being) Them CALLING IT “guardians” as well won’t ever sit right with me 😅 Nevermind the fact we never actually got a REAL ANSWER as to “WHY” do they exist ? Infinite Has breadcrumbs of it (a campaign I genuinely like mostly because it goes back to basics and installation07 despite the 10000 questions that need to be answered soon)

[@chrissonofpear1384]

@@Jermrants Actually, they're based on some of the Precursors' own AIs, it's hinted, in the new Halo Encyclopedia. Only the head is maybe a match for the Primordial, meantime (and for one of the AI, see 'Abaddon') Apparently they started out as 'guardians' of the Domain, and it's early nodes, perhaps in much earlier days of Forerunners; and then got adapted to law enforcement and interdiction of troublesome, ah, lesser races.

[@Jermrants]

@@chrissonofpear1384 yes I know Abbadon, it’s almost identical to the harbinger (and we never truly see harbingers Organic tail But she has a TECHNOLOGICAL one just like the primordial (but HIS was organic) they resemble Sea scorpions, I know it’s a hint toward the precursors, but MY GOD LETS GET THIS SHIT OVER WITH AND JUST SHOW US ONE IN GAME 😂😅😅 the harbinger Is more or less and offspring of one and she is definitely NOT “whatever the primordial was” it’s still UP for debate if he truly WAS a precursor as we only have the Didact for information, and he killed Him in the SAME WAY the endless are currently trapped in (the Silent auditorium being a rebuilt version of a time Lock with 6 pillars resembling Sandtrap from H3) ALSO surrounded by ancient texts… and fun fact we don’t see the texts ANYWHERE BUT halo 3 and infinite (also in h2 anniversary for a split second clearly it’s important) They are also present in the auditorium, Whatever it is Relates DIRECTLY to the precursors and the true meaning of the mantle of responsibility

[@Jermrants]

@@chrissonofpear1384 I’d also like to point out, The flying creatures from halo 4 LOOK like the skimmers, ANDDDDDDDDDD last but not least the harbinger IS an organic copy of The warden eternal, so that raises the question that there are 2 different species or race of precursor (or even more likely they are the same thing aka Lovecraftian sea scorpion squids) And whatever the primordial WAS… ended up being the Gravemind so Infinites got ALOT of explaining to do

[@RoachCatJr]

god i forgot how AMAZING H5's marketing was. so badass.

[@dannyb9223]

It was. The ads left you with dozens of questions, that you just HAD to answer - by buying the game. Maybe other game series should follow that (and actually follow through with giving answers)

[@jordanator1000]

I was so incredibly hyped after just the podcast. Having read many of the books out at the time and having played all the games I was blown away by the lore and intrigue of the podcast. I couldn't wait to see how the game would pan out after the disappointment I felt with Halo 4. Based on the trailers you included, with one being Locke winning and Chief winning the other, I was expecting a dual-ending game, where your choices would determine the outcome. I thought that would be a genius masterstroke after the obvious downtick that was the last instalment, and the game would have so much replay value that way. Not to mention getting to see Blue Team added to the game universe!! I have loved Linda, Fred, and Kelly so much and it was a huge point of hype that I might get to see them in action. I could also see it revolutionizing multiplayer with the two "factions" of Osiris vs Blue Team. But then I came home to my Xbox on winter break from my first year at university and...I just didn't want to finish the game. For the first time, I didn't care what happened in a Halo *anything* and it broke my heart. I remember sitting and ranting with my brother for a few days over the crushing disappointment the game had been. And I haven't played Infinite because what I saw seemed like another strike against the new direction of Halo. But any chance I get, I play through the Bungie games and I still read the books. Maybe there's hope for a retcon someday. There's some AWESOME fan-made content here on KZbin for sure! Maybe that will one day become canon?

[@RorikH]

God Blue team got done dirty. I mean, I'll admit that I haven't read the books since my childhood so my only memories are "Kelly = Fast, Linda = Sniper, Kurt or Fred = Whichever one of those didn't nuke himself at Onyx", but I cannot remember a single line of dialogue from any of them, and there was no emotional impact at all to Chief being reunited with old friends who he must have though were all dead.

[@voodoovince8001]

The worse part about using recons to fix a bad story is how long it takes and how much resistance will come from 343 only listening to the 2 percent of people who like what they do with the story and it's direction.

[@richardlitter6956]

I can't believe that I want to go back and listen to the gosh darn ad-campaign to Halo 5 more than I want to play Halo 5....

[@TheRogueCommand]

In the concept art I think the reason for the armor change was Buck's spot was originally going to be for Gabriel Thorn, the guy from Spartan Ops who questioned Halsey if the 4's could really be Spartans. I love Buck, but I think Thorn's conflicted ideals about the Spartan program could have been an interesting thread to explore, especially if he were pit against the best soldiers the program ever made, maybe even challenged Locke's seeming single mindedness in hunting the Chief. Sadly, it seems by the end, a story with anything resembling depth wasn't the objective.

[@AnotherSWnerd]

I know the air assault spartan was a place holder for buck to hide his appearance on the team and keep it a surprise for halo5 but I'm curious who they'd say the air assault spartan was

[@KeishinB237]

Allegedly it was meant to be Thorne from Spartan Ops. Considering I haven't personally heard from him again in any other media since 4 I can believe it.

[@ghostrecon1171]

@@KeishinB237 Oh, he was killed off in a comic.

[@nagger8216]

I think it's hilarous the reveal trailer looked nothing like Halo until you see Chief's helmet, really captures a lot of the problems with 343 Halo right there

[@Kevin-cx7ln]

Honestly tho, that reveal trailer looks like it was supposed to lead to a super badass story. It just didn't.

[@infernaldaedra]

Imagine using a ODST pfp and not liking halo what a wierdo

[@nagger8216]

@@infernaldaedra Imagine being so pathetic you deliberately looked for a random comment I made and resorted to personal insults because I disagreed with you over a video game in a completely different thread. And I'm supposed to be the weirdo here? 🤣 Jesus Christ, get your life together my guy. That or you can just keep huffing copium

[@infernaldaedra]

@@nagger8216 Nah I'm disrespecting you for the reason I said because your the one going out of their way to have an argument about a game, I mean why would I be nice to a psychotic fanboy when you think everyone in the world exists as a reddit user or a "343 apologist" or whatever the hell you think about the world.

[@thebigyes8482]

@@infernaldaedraWho are you quoting? This is a video about halo 5, you’re allowed to comment your thoughts on halo 5.

[@Yeeter000]

Great video production and editing. I was never a Halo fan but i watched the video nonetheless because i was interested. Keep up the good work

[@SuperStewcat]

I say this with respect to the rank and file employees who made Halo 5, I have absolutely no idea how Microsoft wasn't sued over just how deceptive the marketing was for this game.

[@RorikH]

Can you argue financial and emotional damages fro your story being worse than people thought it would be?

[@v.rokumonsen9338]

I wouldn't even say it's deceptive. I'd definitely apply that to a lot of development horror stories but here it sounds more like ambitious story not going right. Not that they tried to be deceptive per se but a few humps in the road sort of caused a change in direction. Story changed but not too much to be "conflicting" to the promotional material (other than buck being put in if that counts). Maybe not deceptive but definitely a failure

[@flamefromHalo]

This was a big point on the lawsuit VS 'no mans sky', but the tldr is that so long as they don't lie on the online store description/description on the box of the physical game itself then it isn't a violation, they are allowed to lie with just about everything else so long as they don't lie in the fine print.

[@RJ-dw4jw]

Microsoft sued for Halo 5? They should've been sued for Halo MCC first and foremost.

[@v.rokumonsen9338]

@@flamefromHalo The difference being there was a representative being directly asked questions about features within No Man's Sky during an interview whereas with this it's more subtle and not letting on *what* the story is, when there's clearly one present. It's not as if there wasn't already a different story - there'd be no reason to lie about a story being better when they had *already* made a story within teasers and the audiologs. One is explicitly lying about things that do not exist and the other is a remnant of something that did exist that wasn't able to be followed through. It's not like Halo 5 Devs were asked and answered yes or no. This is definitely a "What happened?" more than a "Who lied?"

[@JohnWhite-ms5wr]

Halo 5 was the first time I ever played a Halo game and just didn't have fun. Even during the first level as Chief I could feel something was off and I remember thinking, "I'm not having fun." But this was HALO, how could I not be having fun?! Took me a few more hours to come to grips with it and I just quit playing.

[@primary2630]

Play halo 1

[@JohnWhite-ms5wr]

@@primary2630 I have, it's when I fell in love with Halo. It was my favorite game for years.

[@IAsimov]

*Sigh.* The sad thing about it all is, I *never* forgot how hyped I was for Halo 5. That game is the reason I'd take a reboot of the timeline (or a new timeline entirely, with the *proper* love) should it come up. I loved Infinite, though when it was announced, all I could think was "How will the writer get out of THAT one?"

[@moonlightrobbery]

The answer: they didn't. They just shoved it under the rug, set fire to said rug, then pulled out a new rug for them to inevitably set on fire again.

[@Dan-qy6zv]

"I'd take a reboot of the timeline." Me, looking at the Halo TV Show with a supposed "Silver Timeline" tag to it: 😐

[@Ω3103ζ]

@@moonlightrobbery more like they wanted immediately to move on so they focused on something completely different and resolved the issue in the last 3 hours of the game. Like I get it, I wouldn't want to be head writer for the franchise either

[@eidolon1426]

Infinite had a worse plot than *5,* so clearly they didn't actually put any value on the writing quality regardless. But "oohhhh they have the classic artstyle back!" so it's worth the cancer-ridden brain-rot of a script they shat out in 10 minutes...

[@Freelancer837]

Problem is they need to get rid of a lot of 343i employees (Frank O'Connor kost of all), then reboot the timeline back to where all the 343i stuff didn't happen. They've proven that it's just gonna get worse with each game. Halo 4 was pretty disappointing, Halo 5 was terrible, then Halo Infinite was absolutely dogshit. Halo 7 is just gonna be worse because you can't just ignore all the bad writing that's come

[@gogousa6661]

Thank you for being a bigger Halo Lore fan than I. The only Story I know is that my whole friends list were still playing Halo 3 on 360 in 2015. 343 butchered this series so much already at that point

[@Realpopcornchicken]

It’s such a shame what happened to Halo 5. Halo 4 albeit controversial had in my opinion actual emotion in its story and intrigued me, with a proper ending to Cortana. Bam Cortana is back and EVIL and the all powerful being from 4 is gone. halo 5 set infinite up for failure, because I didn’t care anymore. I don’t care what happens to Cortana or what happened to her because she’s been drawn out. 343 had to deal with trying to fix halo 5’s story but cutting off all halo 5 loose ends off screen and through audio logs doesn’t work well. I wish we got to see what halo 5s story was supposed to he

[@ghostwolf600]

I completely forgot how shafted we got with Halo 5. So much potential compared to what we got.

[@Chiwalker]

It's clear that when the leadership transitioned, they totally scrapped what was originally there to make what came out. I think that's part of the reason it took so long for the game to come out. I would have loved for the Didact to have come back, he could have easily been the big bad for the trilogy. They even could have done a form of Cortana surviving and being used by the Didact to manipulate the Master Chief. I always dream that some billionaire gets permission from Microsoft to make the original Halo 5 and even the original Halo 6 (I'm not a fan of Infinite).

[@Ω3103ζ]

I don't think there is an original 6 Infinite was planned in 2016 right after halo 5

[@TheGamingPolitician]

Halo 5 feels like it was written by an edgy 15 year old who’s favorite film is the Empire Strikes Back, but he doesn’t understand what made that story so great

[@effortlessfury]

We already know why it happened: the marketing team did not know Halo 5's story. This has actually always been the case, even going back to the BELIEVE ad campaign for Halo 3. They did not know what happened to the Chief at the end of Halo 3; the fact that it was mostly on point was coincidental. Halo 2's ilovebees ARG implied the possibility that its events are what led the Covenant to Earth (but actually had absolutely nothing to do with it whatsoever, because it wasn't written with any major knowledge of Halo 2's story). How it happened was always a possibility for most of Halo's ad campaigns, it is just the most unfortunate dissonance between the marketing narrative and the actual narrative that has ever occurred.

[@Ω3103ζ]

That's partly true, but you are missing both halo reach and halo 4 in wich both the marketing and the story/dev team could agree on what was going on

[@effortlessfury]

@@Ω3103ζ there was no agreement, it was just fortunate that there was no conflict.

[@TJM990]

I always thought Hunt the Truth was going to actually expose a truth that would have been new and relevant to the game. Neither happened. I never really considered the weight the Spartan II program being exposed would have. Feel like I under-appreciated it now. Didn't even listen to S2 cause i felt ripped by the end of the first.

[@Golgari213]

Hunt the truth man. I want more of that xfiles-type stuff

[@flydrop8822]

Funny that your "speculation" for the original story is by itself already miles better than what we actually got... Halo 5 was such a waste.

[@soulsidejourney2693]

This summarized so much of what I felt when Halo 5 released. I haven't been hyped for any other game since.

[@HighStakesBBall]

The Hunt The Truth Podcast was sooooo EPIC. Man they punched us all in the gut by not following up with that plot line.

[@imprudentpilot9]

I remember coming across an old WIP script for Halo 5 a couple years after H5's release (2017-ish) that was very similar to the story you outlined in the video except Cortana was supposed to have some sort of role. I cannot remember for the life of me where I saw the script at or how I came in contact with it. I've tried looking for it off and on over the past few years but I was never able to find it. I could be wrong, but I think it was leaked by the marketing company behind the poncho chief trailer, but like I said I could very well be wrong.

[@h_3_x_]

She goes Rouge it was a virus that effects a.i and master cheif was trying to save her

[@akumu9188]

Source: trust me bro

[@Dat_Dude]

So did Infinite pretty much erased most of halo 5 story?

[@Ω3103ζ]

No it didn't. All the consequences from halo 5 are present in Infinite and will still be present in halo infinite part 2 or whatever. Essentially they just killed of a character and introduced four new ones in 6- that's it.

[@HaloDaycare]

H5's multiplayer changed my life. It was my life for a few years. Coming from a Halo veteran, the mp was unique and beautiful and we will likely never see anything like it ever again

[@kisekiguy4243]

Personally infection was the best halo 5 mp had to offer

[@mitchie2267]

Beautiful? Jesus Christ

[@MrKazuma92123]

Agreed. I remember when Halo CE came out, been with Halo since the beginning. Halo 5 is my favorite multiplayer in the series, I've put thousands of hours into it.

[@epicgodminecraft73]

@@mitchie2267 Yes, beautiful. Halo 5's MP is best compared akin to Titanfall and as someone who enjoys fast paced MPs Halo 5's is perfect. If I need something slower I can always fall back to 2 or 3, and Infinite's is just dogwater no matter what.

[@drummerAVA]

It was a great idea, that was largely refined, with a couple missteps on the gameplay front… some missing/lost potential… the Spartan Charge and Ground Pound mechanics were questionable, to say the least… I feel like all melee attacks used in combination with the thruster pack should’ve just done more damage, and possibly a little knock back, and that would’ve functioned much better in-game… Then the map pool/design leaves a bit to be desired as well, missing game modes… the potential H5 held/holds is incredibly exciting, what is unfortunate is how unrealized it was, fully…

[@gilinar]

Damn, this channel is gonna blow up. Good luck man.

[@specialfred453]

Maybe it's because I never had anyone to co-op with (because no splitscreen) and I avoid most marketing to avoid spoilers, but I don't hate the Halo 5 campaign. I'm annoyed it isn't on PC though. It's inconvenient to have to play it on my xbox

[@YodaOnABender]

It’s a shame because I would’ve much rather seen what direction the series might’ve gone in if Halo 5 was true to the marketing rather than the boring soft reboot approach the series has now gone with Infinite And it’s even more sad because we’ll never get this story now. The UNSC has been destroyed, humanity is on the run, so there’s no room for a story like this to exist now.

[@sp4cepigz174]

This should have just been a spin-off game about team Osiris

[@ek5268]

Bro, thank you so much for making this video. People don’t go deep enough into the discrepancies between the marketing and the actual story of Halo 5 and why they’re there. Excellent work

[@non-shockingtopics7563]

So basically we were promised Master Chief: Civil War, but got Hunt Down the Master Chief instead.

[@nagger8216]

Halo 5: Hunt the Lies

[@STOTTINMAD]

The Guardians are basically Halo's version of Mass Effect Reapers without the biological assimilation

[@Ω3103ζ]

No, reapers are more like the flood, guardians are just giant emp weapons/spaceships to be used on a planet

[@vallreign]

Nah, 343 just doesn’t understand their own IP. Halo Wars wasn’t even made by bungie/ 343 was made by ensemble studios and they did an amazing job. Halo wars 2 not so much- bc it was made by 343… they take everything and destroy it. All of the things 343 has done has just shit on my childhood/ fav franchise, I will never forget how amazing the halos were and I never had an internet connection in those times. Just says so much more.

[@averycoolturtle]

The marketing team did amazing for Halo 5, I don't think I've ever been more excited for a games release than Halo 5. Unfortunately 343i, like usual, did the opposite of amazing and ended up creating a very subpar story.

[@Mentherex]

I had zero hype for this game, played it like 4 years after it came out and had zero expectations, I loved it, I love the high energy cutscenes and especially the first mission as Locke and the arbiter missions

[@lordrandolf1]

Exactly! Same here.

[@ebomb1133]

Very similar experience with this game. But my biggest tease/let down......... was that the final cutscene ends MOMENTS BEFORE CHIEF AND ARBY REUNITED. Then if you read Bad Blood, it's a mere mention in a single sentence that they went off screen, talked for a good chunk of the night, then nothing. These 2 beloved characters that were the pinnacle of the original trilogy, who have not been on screen together since 2007, get a single sentence in an offshoot book for their reunion. I was livid, and still kinda am to this day of how they handled this story/game

[@ThatFletcherGuy.]

I still stand by my statement that halo 5 launch trailer was one of the best launch trailers of all time. Shame that it was only the trailer that was incredible.

[@jimjam7928]

With the passage of time, you see people often soften on really bad shit (eg. The Star Wars Prequels), and nostalgia tends to take over. With how Infinite is being handled right now (poorly), I've seen a lot of people say "remember how this was good?" or most egregiously, "bring back the weapons/armours/plot/general art style from 5". Let me just say that Halo 5 is still, and potentially always will be, the worst Halo game. The campaign is just a big waste of nothing happening. Whether you're Chief or Locke, you are just meandering through setpiece after setpiece, with the same objective in mind: Locke is hunting Chief, Chief is finding Cortana. There are some interesting detours, like Sanghelios, but it's just empty worldbuilding; there's no agency, no true thematic reason why Locke and his team are on that planet, speaking to the Arbiter. In a better script, both of these characters would discuss the Chief, and the Arbiter would share some insight that may change Locke's thoughts, but of course they barely speak. It's all just there because Elites. There's no real reason to care about the group that the Arbiter is fighting against, because the only named character from that faction got shanked in the first level of the game. Who cares? And that doesn't really change throughout the entire campaign, despite certain moments implying that now is the time for the plot to change (or really, to start) and for the characters to change their motivations. The game also doesn't have a third act, like Halo 2; unlike Halo 2, there's nothing else in the story to make up for this obvious lack of narrative. The story just sort of... winds up at the Cortana twist, and then abruptly ends as things are just getting started. The marketing campaign implied a great Chief/Locke beatdown, but that doesn't happen? So is the story about Cortana and her Created? No, because the campaign ends before they're even really introduced? So... what is Halo 5 about? It baffles the mind. While I'm always in two minds about Halo 4, I genuinely believe that 5 is the only genuinely bad campaign in the entire franchise. Just a complete and utter squander of potential, and really a waste of time and resources. I'm gonna stop this rant now because there's SO MUCH that I dislike about 5 (the fucking ugly art style, the continued presence of the Prometheans aka the worst and most irritating enemies in Halo only exacerbated by the fucking Warden Eternal times 7, Cortana's Created faction that surely would have turned into gameplay of just fighting more annoying Prometheans), that I could fill this entire comment section with my writing on it.

[@ThelRiSycusee]

Imagine talking bout halo 5 still 💀💀💀💀

[@RJ-dw4jw]

I dont understand how so many people got hyped with the bullshit marketing campaign for Halo 5 before its release considering 343 had just released the biggest disaster in gaming HISTORY.

[@ThatTallBrendan]

Multiplayer's pretty fun though. It has more to do than Infinite does. I literally ground from SR83 to SR152 in a little over a month for the armor coating in Infinite, and they _changed it._ Literally made me want to die. And the battle rifle coating looked right! They changed the armor and made it _not match._ After putting all that work in for what turned out to be a crappy reward, I was done.

[@jayman2257]

I’m a big lore nerd and I appreciate how concise and objective you remained in this video. You’ve finally given me something small enough to send to my homies who care but don’t care enough to know on the levels of detail I know about the Halo Universe. Thank You Precursor.

[@ciphergarden8281]

Halo 5's story was awful....made me loose trust in 343.....infinite was still a failure....story was ok, but relied heavily on the banished which wasnt a thing 343 had created....all I know is they better take things in a better direction, otherwise they will be the company that killed halo...not saved it

[@pierce2024]

Are we really still making video whining about Halo 5... Seven. Years. Later?

[@dextergrif]

Halo is my favorite franchise. Always has been since I was four years old, and it probably always will be. I was unbelievably hyped for Halo 5. Hunt the Truth was a genuinely fantastic series, and when Master Chief Collection came out I pretended I was Locke reviewing the stories of the Chief preparing for his mission. Needless to say, when Halo 5 released, my disappointment was immeasurable and my day was ruined. I have always been someone who appreciated the new direction 343 took Halo in with Halo 4, and all I wanted was for that direction to be continued. That never happened and I’m depressed about that to this day. If Halo 5 continued the story of Halo 4 and Hunt the Truth faithfully, it might have ended up being one of my favorite video games ever. Now we’re in a place where 343 continues to be wishy-washy regarding where they want Halo to go. Soft reboot? Sequels? They seem to have no idea and that’s really disappointing. I still wish they just stuck to their guns despite the hate. I definitely prefer Bungie’s version of Halo to 343’s, but I also really liked Halo 4, so I’ve never been someone who went gung-ho about 343 ruining Halo. I think Halo 5 specifically ruined Halo.

[@linda-0587]

Good work, Soldier, I concur with your assessment

[@JasonDuaineHahn]

The first 10-20 minutes of the game were good, 343 at least did that part right. But that was later followed by the Warden Eternal, which is still, hands down, one of the worst uses of a boss/enemy I have ever played against in any game ever

[@Jagecage]

The hunt the truth podcast was one of the best halo add ons I’d heard. But it’s the weird disconnect I always felt with the games to the books/additional material. Like in the expanded material it’s clear the UNSC especially ONI are bad guys on top of the covenant. Yet the games it’s just only woooo go unsc everything is fine.

[@nagger8216]

Well tbf in the original games the UNSC was fighting a war for survival, they're basically the good guys by default. Once you take away the survival aspect because humanity isn't being threatened anymore, then yeah, it becomes a bit inconsistent in the 343 games.

[@Jagecage]

@@nagger8216 yeah like even reading fall of reach from the start it’s like noooo these people are horrible. But I guess that’s the limitation of a FPS at the time. The games you’re the propaganda viewpoint that the unsc wants everyone to see. Spartan who saves humanity. The reality it doesn’t show is the kidnapping, murder, horrible things done in the name of unity BEFORE even the covenant was a thing. Just a shame it’s not showcased in games more. Feels almost like 2 different universes

[@jyrvo]

Amazing customs and forge capabilities. Gameplay was intense and took skill. It was tons of fun. The campaign definitely sucked though lol but I gotta admit where halo 5 was great

[@ianculp1779]

...but the gameplay was fun!

[@InsomniacDoggo]

I think the biggest thing that irks me is how many times in the current generation of games I've heard the words "there were massive re-writes im the middle of development". Its become a ubiquitous and really annoying trend in modern game development that leasts to objectively worse games.

[@charleswest782]

There should be a rule that even if development staff change mid production, they have to work with what's already been completed. They can add on to that. But they can't change what's already been done

[@InsomniacDoggo]

@@charleswest782 absolutely

[@thealmightyaku-4153]

Another one I can think of right away is Mass Effect. After 3 I was so disillusioned & disappointed that I didn't play any video games at all for about 18 months.

[@Freelancer837]

Problem is that even without massive rewrites, I don't think 343i is at all capable of writing anything good

[@Freelancer837]

@@thealmightyaku-4153 that sucks, ME3 is my favorite of them lol

[@johncenarules25]

At least the multiplayer was great!

[@raizenr2387]

Wasn't there also some huge story leak or something?

[@Snopdogdad]

As much as people may hate halo 5 campaign, I had fun , one thing that was amazing about it was the diversity of areas we traveled too, for example we went to bases for the UNSC and then a snow biome and then an ancient desert and then an Abandoned UNSC base and mountains , overall I enjoyed it and it was pretty fun

[@joshsmith6995]

All I see with 4 and 5 is wasted time and resources, what could have been.

[@iratepirate3896]

The most disgusting ad campaign I've seen in a decade

[@soapmakestunes]

KZbin keeps giving me underrated creators' Halo-related videos. And I'll keep subscribing. Phenomenal video, dude.

[@reffa2858]

I think Halo follower had theorized that the trailer with poncho chief happened after Halo 5 ended. That was a cool theory.

[@nagger8216]

My favorite theory is that Cortana is imagining all this while she's bored out of her mind on the Forward Unto Dawn while Chief is still in cryosleep

[@dodojesus4529]

@@nagger8216 5 more years till the smut phase begins

[@NailFromNamek]

I hated 5 so much that I almost quit playing halo all together.

[@AJMarraffa]

I never had an Xbone, so I didn't end up playing Halo 4 or 5 until they were available on PC (streamed Halo 5 on xCloud, would not recommend). As someone who was aware of all the infamous Halo 5 marketing but hadn't really looked into it, I didn't hate Halo 5. I already felt like 343 was taking Halo in the wrong direction with Halo 4, but Halo 5 did feel like a natural continuation of what they set up. After watching this video, it's crystal clear why people were so upset with the product they got. Halo 5's marketing was a disjointed, misleading mess.

[@HollowDog5899]

Halo 5 was fun, the story... meh

[@Blindluck92]

"Maybe the 343 story is all fake, and the Master Chief is still adrift in the Forward Unto Dawn." Wait, you mean that's not the near universally accepted headcanon as we wait for something to fix the mess 343 had made?

[@brandosthoughts]

The heretic leader compares nothing to this monstrosity

[@logan_jp3]

Halo 5 and Halo Infinite have the worst stories of the entire franchise

[@axant3792]

If the trailers are based off the original script then it was a stupid idea to change it as the trailer hints at a way more interesting story.

[@Outcastsage9033]

apparently either microsoft/343 industries found the story too dark so they changed the storyline

[@supersnow17]

Imagine buying an Xbox One back in the day for MCC and Halo 5. I wouldn't blame those same people for never forgiving 343 and still being pissed to this day.

[@PillowEgg]

Halo 5 was the Halo game that dissuaded me from the franchise. The story was so shit that I left the franchise for Destiny. RIP Halo. Halo 5 sucked, Halo TV series suck. Halo is a dead franchise ruined by bad corporate decisions.

[@LockheedC-130HerculesOfficial]

Damn it really chalks up to that huh. "Chief come back" "No" "Wtf Cortana evil now?" And the Jul elite guy being killed. 343s stories seem to use good characters for such lame results

[@alexandersergal]

i forgot halo 5 even existed and my brain went from halo 4 to Halo infinite

[@SomniaCE]

I've warmed up to Halo 5's campaign in the last 3-4 years. The gameplay was really solid and what story was there I really came to appreciate after the first couple years of intense disappointment dissipated. Time heals all wounds, I suppose.

[@SomniaCE]

@ZugaikotsuToxsky Never said the story was good

[@thebigyes8482]

Really? I think the forerunners are poorly designed enemies with no real gameplay patterns besides standing there and shooting homing projectiles, and maybe advancing on the player if you’re lucky. Even the “covenant” in the game got homing weapons and instant melees to make sure the Spartan abilities don’t have any effect on gameplay other than gimmicks. Many of the levels are just sequences of corridors with no dynamic gameplay spaces. They made the hunters into bullet sponges with, once again, homing weapons and instant melees which utterly destroyed them. They repeat the same boss five times obviously. Not a massively coherent comment but those are just some of the issues that ruin it for me. I rarely see people saying they liked the gameplay for the campaign.

[@birdy5516]

This game’s podcast was so much better

[@mariokarter13]

Bungie had the creative freedom to make Halo. 343 appears to resent the fact they're restricted to making Halo.

[@TRG_R17]

I Surprised Halo 5 Didn't Kill Everyone Trust Of 343

[@KiraSlith]

To be completely honest after Halo 4's story and game balance was a corridor shooter mess despite it's own hype, I didn't have any hope for 5. As far as I was concerned at the time, ODST and Reach put a neat little bow on the franchise and 343, much like their namesake would be an unfortunate series of digressions. Now Halo is stuck in it's own "Sonic Cycle", managing to hype up the fans and then crush them with every release. Because the current dev team has no clue what they broke, because despite having every opportunity to figure it out before, had no clue how it worked in the first place. Bungie meanwhile, who's freedom from Microsoft's shakles was the entire point of this destructive exercise, immediately got shackled again by Activision (now Activision Blizzard) and quickly destroyed. 🤦‍♀️

[@RikoLime]

Halo 5 wasn't too terribly bad, but I think what killed it was the focus on Locke. They tried so hard to make him a big thing. Like, ooohh, some orphan turned assassin turned spy turned spartan, ohhhh, but all they did was create a shamefully hollow character with a lame background. They tried to make him a badass but he just came out like a try-hard. Now what is really irritating... When you look at this ending, it leaves such a cliffhanger. Cortana, powerful, in charge of AIs, Guardians, all Forerunner things... And then Halo Infinite just. Is like.. (Spoilers).... ... ... Is like.. "hey remember Cortana, yeah she blew up the brute homeworld and then got super sad and killed herself". What a damn disappointment.

[@jordyplaysgamesAUTISMYEET]

Stop buying halo games is something I said since halo 5 and you paid for another one. This was your own fault

[@CboTheSecond]

I remember listening to Hunt the Truth as it came out, I'd never really bothered with the Halo universe beyond the games but there was just something so compelling about it. The fact that a small side-story made just for marketing absolutely bodies the product it was trying to sell is frankly embarassing.

[@mr.dr.kaiser4912]

I still haven't played H5, since it's console exclusive. I liked H4 well enough, but the story didn't do it for me. Granted, part of the reason for that is that H4 was a direct followup to H3. I wasn't super impressed by H3's story, either, which I know is sacrilegious to certain hardcore Halo fans.

[@TheNoobYouHATE]

BEN-A-JIM! If you get the reference, you get a cookie.

[@Natgunner]

I remember this game launching and being incredibly disappointed as I was writing the first draft of my novel, The Shroud of Peace. By sheer coincidence, I was also writing a Sci-fi espionage thriller centering around a game of cat and mouse between a special operations team and a fugitive super soldier with a larger “Cold War” political power struggle and possible supernatural events happening in the galactic back drop. Two years later, I published that book, and for all intents and purposes believe I tackled the premise better than 343.

[@jimharrison2513]

You never seen any marketing before or since that lied to it's audience about the story? Metal Gear Solid 2 and The Last of Us Part 2. Anyway the only good thing about this game campaign was the cutscenes looked pretty nice. Even though the dialogue is atrocious. Kind of like Gears 5. Man that game story is terrible too.

[@RoachCatJr]

i remember people ran in circles claiming the mismatched narrative of the trailers and actual game as being part of the "ONI is lying" lore, but in real life, like an ARG. but like no lol it was just Microsoft/343 fucking things up again, plain and simple