The Great Microsoft Debate feat. Flats, Samito & Freedo

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Timestamps
0:00 Opening Thoughts & General S7 Feelings
25:35 Balance & The Recent Developer Blog
1:16:00 The Microsoft Takeover
1:47:40 K-Pop Collaboration
2:00:30 The Upcoming Competitive Rework
2:24:10 Blizzcon & The Next Tank Hero
2:34:40 Concluding Thoughts

[@GroupUp]

This episode was recorded on 20th October 2023. Podcast links below! If you're enjoying this content, why not check out SVB's stream (www.twitch.tv/svb_ ) or his second channel The Soak (youtube.com/@TheSoak ) where he does movie, TV & anime breakdowns! The best way to support the podcast is still www.patreon.com/svb Soundcloud: soundcloud.com/ow_svb/the-great-microsoft-debate Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/6sRWutKTc0gnWuguo62Vpa Apple Podcasts: podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/svbs-group-up/id1490256265

[@Hyde472]

If possible, reducing SVB's mic by 10-15% would be appreciated. There is a noticeable volume difference in all of these and when listening through speakers it can leave me turning the volume up and down a lot.

[@IHJello]

Im so glad SVB has made these so regularly. Huge thank you for all the work.

[@Croc.]

best way to thank him is subbing to his patreon :-)

[@ralseidagoat]

for REAL! Great content while driving to work or chilling at my desk after a long day!

[@IHJello]

​@Croc. Ive been thinking about it ever since the tank debate. I just subbed to The Soak so i can give him a boost there. Problem is I use Patreon for comedy and already spend 65$ on comedy subs. I promise SVB if we get one more consistent Group Up pod I will cancel a sub for him and he will be my first and only gaming sub 👑

[@kristwi37]

right, fareeha not being here is a blessing.

[@Croc.]

@@kristwi37 how can you not like Fareeha, she's awesome

[@shubu42069]

Balance discussion was fantastic. Fully agree that OW2 has not upheld its promise to players in reducing CC and enabling you to play the heroes you enjoy

[@darksplash873]

I think the amount of healing only makes things that are strong even stronger. It’s harder to punish mistakes and thus outplaying your counters is just so much harder. The game gets turned into a stalemate, and stalemates get won by the team with an advantage - usually it’s a team comp advantage.

[@ReaveIdono]

What? Just by the fact of having 1 less tank the CC has been reduced immensely. The hinder from Mag Grenade is annoying though.

[@darksplash873]

@@ReaveIdono I think the offtank tanked a lot of it, or mitigated with matrix, bubbles, grasp etc. So it didnt feel like as much.

[@ReaveIdono]

@@darksplash873 That's definitely true but Tank Players act like they aren't supposed to get hit with any CC at all. Even Sleep Dart is reduced on them. As a Tank you should get hit with the brunt of cooldowns.

[@darksplash873]

@@ReaveIdono Yeah and in ow1 there were two tanks to share that responsibility. Now we halved the tank amount but maybe decreased the cc by 20%?

[@nothingnothing2588]

The beards and glasses podcast Great discussion as always!

[@highheart4300]

How have I not noticed this before!?

[@Jason22Douce]

Freedo the only one not to constantly touch his lips, chin, beard 😂

[@rioriorio17]

That’s hilarious, I’m and hour and forty minutes in and I didn’t even notice till now 😂

[@BTTBRE]

I can’t unsee it

[@vohrai4639]

Samitos glasses make another appearance, this is going to be a worthwhile cast.

[@SebuKaz]

Glassmito!!!!!

[@lPkPkers]

Great Glasses Knights Gather Round Ye Table!!

[@gameinggameing9941]

Its Glass Up Podcast

[@pkshd]

Glasses Knights sounds like a Dark Souls boss encounter

[@SebuKaz]

@@pkshd There is a boss called the Looking Glass Knight ironically

[@bartstoffels5756]

Nobody is probably gonna read this but wouldn't it be fun to see the podcast have like 1-2 ow devs and 2-3 creaters/players. Like the podcasts keep going. Its just a suggestion.

[@JumpsOw]

Yeah I was thinking the same that way we would have direct thoughts from the devs perspective regarding 6v6, role passives, the support problem and monetization for example.

[@paladinliberator3070]

Freedo is super correct, at least for me at 51:41 . As a mostly quick play warrior... I just want to be able to play the heroes that I find fun and compelling to play. I know swapping will always be a part of Overwatch. I'm not under any illusions that I should be able to One-Trick and do well. But if I have like two-three heroes in each role that I really enjoy and find compelling it would be nice to be able to play those heroes without needing to worry. It's also really important for the motivation to play both casually and competitively. If I find a hero fun to play, and I like their artistic design, I'm going to be motivated to put time into that hero. I'm gonna feel good working to get good at them and express my skills. Counter swapping completely takes this out of the game. Playing a meta hero that you don't find fun or interesting destroys any motivation to actually make a genuine commitment to learn and get better. It also destroys the casual enjoyment of playing your favorite hero whenever you want to. TL;DR: As a casual player If I think a hero is fun and they look cool. I want to play them. Heroes who are fun and look cool are subjective and unique for everyone... Meta and counters are bad for this.

[@Oops1269]

How can you balance to where everyone’s main as meta? As a qp warrior you should understand what it’s like to have a doom player each game. It’s not that doom is bad, it’s that you’re stuck with a bad player playing doom.

[@paladinliberator3070]

@@Oops1269 Okay I wasn't clear on that. When I say meta is bad I don't mean meta in general. There will always be meta and it can't be everyone's main. What I meant was 'meta-slaveing' as Freedo put it, is bad. And I agree with him that it's not casual. What I would want is for every hero to be viable. That's going to look very different for different heroes. Doom as you brought up is a character that is a lot of the times viable you just really need to put in the time. I think that's okay. If a hero motivates you to play you're going to put in that time.

[@seapower2109]

i think what you meant to say is "skill issue" and maybe try using comms in a team based game idk lol

[@vivid8979]

Support SVB for more regular releases this is dope!

[@galev3955]

SVB saying "Everything about Overwatch is amazing until you play it" is so on point. I have been feeling like that for some time now. OW2 release brought some fun and novelty (and hope) until it all went downhill again super fast and now it somehow feels worse than before. Which sucks because we all know there is a great game burried deep in there.

[@seapower2109]

saying ow2 is worse than ow1 at any point is peak boomer take lol ow1 died bc it sucked ass to play with no tutorials and was charging money for a game with loot boxes for rewards lol

[@reddeadcobra8295]

@@seapower2109the reason ow1 failed was a balance issue. Lack of tutorials is not a valid reason and it was a paid game like any other of that time on release. They changed monetization models to allow more players in and have succeeded at that but still missed the nail on the head with the balance

[@lyrch4803]

@@seapower2109 😂 new players

[@seapower2109]

@@reddeadcobra8295 bro nobody cares about balance that hard my guy that is a pure echo chamber take. Why are you defending the fact they had no tutorials and are taking months still to make them what lol Warframe, World of Tanks, etc were free to play games that are infinitely more successful games and were released before ow1. Also "changed monetization models" you mean trend chasing lol did blizzard pr hire you bc your points sucks

[@seapower2109]

@@lyrch4803 I've played the game sense release my guy I quit around ashs release

[@chronosoul1837]

In the midseason patch, watch Lucio, not only get a nerf, but also get one of the hardest hitting nerfs amongst the supports for no reason.

[@yomama2376]

Have they even touched lucio besides his slight buff to self heals? If anything, ana and mercy will probably be hit. Illari has a nerf coming i feel too

[@le_m4cho965]

They need to nerf Kiriko, Ana, Bap,Ilari,LW and maybe Brigite. If they nerf anyone Lucio Zen Mercy or Moira but leave the others intact, imma delete the game 💀 Edit: they should rework Zen by changing how Discord works on Tanks but thats my opinion

[@seapower2109]

@@le_m4cho965 so all of the aim based heros you want nerfed and Brig would gets rolled in Dive and rush lol please formulate your own thoughts stop repeating what the streamer said

[@le_m4cho965]

@@seapower2109 how does brig get rolled by dive if her main use is to counter dive 💀, also the nerfs i want are not even crazy Ana needs a change to Nade, Kirikos Suzu does everything so they need to get rid of the inmortality.Bap needs a change yo his inmortality.Ilaris pylon needs to heal less or have a timer because there spots where you cant even hit it. LW has a save free card with his pull. I just want the Brainless stuff nerfed 💀💀💀

[@zc8673]

​@@le_m4cho965lol if you think they need to nerf Brig you're actually missing part of your brain

[@SmartieArtie]

The support passive was such a huge QOL change for supports. Instead of getting rid of it, reduce sustain of supports across the board so that they don't stack. You could then give some sustain back to tanks in order to restore some agency to the role.

[@stevenong3308]

But why should supports be the only ones to have such a "huge QOL change" and the other roles don't? All roles should have the support passive or no roles at all. Supports nowadays can dps better than dps (cough "bap, kirko, ilari") and still do loads of healing at the same time with a passive thats comparatively better than the other role's passives. On the other roles, not support, I have to rely on dps supports for heals, while they are in the enemies backline trying to dps leaving the other people on the team feeling so helpless and dependent.

[@BottledWater759]

The problem with this is that while it is a massive QOL change, it is an even bigger BALANCE change and it also specifically benefits certain supports (Ana) significantly more than others (Main supports: Mercy already had it, Lucio has self heal, Brig is brig). This is partially responsible for the fact that main support, at least in the current meta, has been just crept out of existence (except for Mercy). You can play Mercy because its just Mercy, shes never the best pick but shes always playable. Lucio can't be played because Rush just gets stopped by hitting the brick wall that is Orisa and the extra damage from 2 flex supports just delets your team from the game. Dive can't be played because of Bastion, Reaper, and Torb and therefore there is almost never a reason to pick Brig because the only thing that you would be doing is stopping a single flanker from being on your backline and the flex supports can already duel flankers with a pretty good level of confidence, doubly so if you have 2 of them. TLDR: it makes flex support OP and therefore is bad because it makes it much easier to stack 2 flex supports. (Its flex support that is OP right now, main support kinda sucks)

[@KeanuChrist]

Thanks to Phil Spencer, I'm high on copium that the Overwatch team will finally be allowed to make the content they've been wanting to do. Really hope the acquisition leads to a happy ending.

[@wildeskompositum9556]

Spoilers: it wont

[@desperadox6835]

@@wildeskompositum9556we wait and see not judge

[@a1m3r67]

​@@wildeskompositum9556every studio under their veil has been doing whatever they want. I don't see a reason why blizzard(and the overwatch team) wouldn't

[@seapower2109]

@@wildeskompositum9556 if anything id bet they axe ow2 and move the devs to the next halo experience. ow2 doesnt have nearly the amount of devs it needs to be a successful live service akin to apex, rust, hunt showdown, fortnite, etc and has no reason to continue investing in it.

[@YourBlackLocal]

⁠@@seapower2109What are you talking about. The Overwatch team is big at around 160 Devs. Hunt showdown has an estimate of around 60. The Overwatch team are just bad at designing stuff and fumbled PvE.

[@holodonata]

This podcast needs to be required viewing for all players.

[@medellpr]

Tyranny

[@borisvandepoel2703]

​@@medellprin this case i'm all for tyranny lol

[@suicidesuckerpunch]

I love listening to these while ignoring my teammates in comp.

[@e.and.f]

That's an insane take. But all devs particularly execs/management absolutely.

[@Starwolfe64]

I mean I’ll settle for just the Devs wathching

[@dreamz9379]

I’m so glad this small indie company notices people like a replayable PvE experience, maybe they can roll out a sequel with that in mind, like Freedo said

[@x100bullets]

SVB, you're doing great with these podcasts, don't stop!

[@cheeekeygames]

"I'm sending you an invoice" 😂 thanks for another banger SVB and gang! Love seeing you all having fun with it which is what games are all about

[@blub.lubber5171]

I appreciate the work these guys put in to benefit the community whether Blizzard pays attention or not

[@seapower2109]

I would argue these are some of the most counter productive and just rage bait streamers there are? besides svb all these guys do is whine and complain, and talk about days gone like literal boomers. also didnt samito quit ow and then comes crawling back lol hilarious

[@supersaiyandio1223]

@@seapower2109 yet here you are 🤡

[@rioriorio17]

@@seapower2109you obviously don’t actually watch any of these guys based on your takes on them. Sam actually wants to see the game be great. He’s just saying what he believes is wrong with the game and what blizzard should do to fix it. I agree the 6v6 debate is a pointless, endless stream of hypotheticals, but it’s also their choice to argue about it. In general, I KNOW the OW devs watch and listen to this stuff because they as well want the game to be good, they just don’t understand their game yet because the people on the team have changed many many times.

[@seapower2109]

@@rioriorio17 have you ever heard of lying? Lmao the best thing for this game would be to not have 5 year olds screaming about supports lol why do they all insist on nerfing supports instead of just buffing everybody else its the same mentality as the Diablo 4 team. Plus thinking valorant or Apex are good games and arent just F2P trash for middle schoolers is peak streamer bias lol these dudes operate like politicians

[@JacintoPlamenco]

Bravo and well said, "the win is always a swap away". SVB, thank you and everyone for having all of these discussions! Sincerely, Ex-Flex Tank

[@homelessmexican410]

I feel that the way to rework the tank role is to add more complexity to them. If the main argument against 5v5 is that we lose the complexity of tank synergies then tanks on their own need to have more depth to sustain on their own and resist the cc dumping that tends to happen. Although I like the idea of role passives it would probably be better to add additional effects to tank abilities that mitigate damage to also have cc resistant effects like immunity to slow for a set duration for specific characters etc.

[@jsj0520]

The second I saw samitos smug mug in the thumbnail I just said “of course he returns for this topic” 😂😂

[@duel2803]

they can definitely make a mini rouge like game mode. it’s not to far from what the event already is

[@imrendered]

I want SvB to participate in the convo more often

[@aagold6840]

Bring Stylosa back on the podcast!

[@gacktdirge17]

Would be cool but i think he prefers to be solo

[@finnbacon]

Would love to see Sty here

[@bockilover]

Bring stylosa please❤

[@wildeskompositum9556]

Freedo Samito and Stylosa, the ultimate shithousing

[@secretlyaslug2325]

No thank you lol. Stylosa is such a mindless misleading whiner. At least when Samito is being a complainer or angry it's funny and gives flavor to the conversation.

[@Emmett_Assault]

How do we tell‘em that Mauga is the new Tank hero 😂

[@sortascouseace]

They already know who the tank is CC's get to see the new heroes early. They also get every battlepass for free as well

[@sortascouseace]

@@TheAlreadybeentaken they do I literally said that in my post. Take any CC's opinion on the BP with a grain of salt

[@Emmett_Assault]

@@sortascouseace would it make alot of sense that not only the CC's but the OW team themselvse know that Mauga is the new Tank hero but they don't wanna spoil the whole surprise untill blizzcon?

[@sortascouseace]

@@Emmett_Assault yes obviously... Devs better know who the new hero is... CC's are under an NDA they couldn't reveal it even if they wanted to.

[@TheAlreadybeentaken]

@@sortascouseace i know im just saying as to why they revive it for free, also they’re free to say that it’s bad and blizzard will still give them it i’m not sure if they have played the new hero yet, i think they will more closer to launch of the next season, but again the reason they get early access is because it helps blizzard promote the game and it gives the de team some feedback i don’t believe the content creators care about these “benefits” from blizzard as it’s pretty much just part of their job, like if they didn’t get the battle pass for free they would probably still buy it just to make a video on it, the video will make more than enough revenue to cover the cost

[@x100bullets]

flats is exactly spot on that the frustration people feel with orisa is that her cooldowns allow her to sustain until that moment when the support ults start popping

[@user-xf4rp4qs5d]

How to play tank in s7 : -close application -start laundry -call family -go to gym -practice piano

[@CJ-jk9mp]

-find wife -have kids -grow old -walk into the sunset -roll credits

[@glitchplayer2]

Actually having more fun cleaning the house, exercising or reading books than queuing for Overwatch

[@Caedasheen]

I listen to every podcast you post. Thank you SVB :D

[@commandoch12i5]

Why does Freedo look like he's about to beat some information out of me working for the Mafia.

[@justinsmeer9539]

For me personally, if they don't do SOMETHING about tank counter queing I'm gonna be done with the role VERY soon.

[@Cameron.ae08]

I first started overwatch with the release of overwatch 2, I’m a gold player. By no means great, but with enough time played now to genuinely believe that getting rid of ult charge on character swapping will change the behavior of 99% of players at least in gold and below. If players build up as low as 20% charge, they will not change character until having the chance to use that ult unless if they are MISERABLE. So I agree with Samito that it will stop constant hero countering, but I don’t think that change would be consequence free.

[@JumpsOw]

If possible it would be really interesting to see a overall debate with devs, you could talk about 5v5 vs 6v6, the support problem and role passives besides other things.

[@PSM646]

They already did?

[@JumpsOw]

@@PSM646 No they didn't

[@srtnnrnn7405]

I feel like we need a whole episode focused on counterswapping. Maybe bring spilo back as a counterpoint to what seems like the predominant view of most of y'all which is that it's a big problem. I personally don't feel like it really is (granted I'm much closer to like an average player it may be a worse problem in top 500 lobbies) but id love to hear it hashed out directly.

[@ELECTTRO11]

So true, nothing dies.

[@superdumptacos]

Keep ‘em coming SVB. Keep ‘em coming.

[@carlschultz9981]

Illari pylon duration should match its cooldown or even be 2 seconds longer so in theory you can have 100% uptime but only if the other team doesn't kill it and you are good at moving it. Some games they kill it very easily but others it just stays forever and you get 20%+ ult charge for free while coming back from spawn.

[@CoversWithCare]

I have a piece of paper next to my computer right now where I tally the amount of times I gap the tank and they go horse

[@r3so1ute]

For the rank system, they should try something like SF6's system. It's pretty much the ow1 number system, but if you win you get 50 points and if you lose you lose 40 points. So climbing is in the players favor. Then once you reach the highest rank, you unlock a leaderboard for that rank.

[@lruddy8820]

i dont like how the halloween event was all in the same one room

[@delightful-ish]

Hog rework delayed to implement his new master chief helmet and bubble shield.

[@BuffNesquikBunny]

Flip yeah, love the podcast and it came out just in time for me to kill some time

[@Starwolfe64]

Praise the podcast!

[@gunrookie2523]

Didn’t two of these people quit Overwatch multiple times already.

[@MasterSergeantMartin]

Flats, Freedo, and Samito, great lineup here I regularly watch.

[@kiraflo98]

Pretty much opposite for me. I'd rather see many other content creators

[@hexia6760]

Remove Flats and put in AVRL. Flats talks waaaay too much, wish SVB would try and cut him off sooner. Freedo' bias is also too much of an factor imo, though it has gotten better this past time.

[@davidrich27]

⁠@@hexia6760 Did you watch Spilo on a more recent Groupup? I’d like to see him on the podcast more. He has a good head for game balance and strategy imo. He rarely goes on rants without having something constructive to say.

[@hexia6760]

@@davidrich27 I haven't watched enough of that one, to form an opinion. But if it is like you wrote, then maybe yeah. Flats just keeps talking about the same point all the time. Same points, but he needs to explain them 5 different ways, like we don't know what the fuck hes talking about. At 20:00 or something, when hes about to talk for nearly 10min straight, is just impossible for me to listen to, lol.

[@user-nc9zh9ur8h]

@@hexia6760freedos bias towards what exactly?

[@HoodieDOTpdf]

Hoo boy, time to second monitor this while I play Lies of P

[@butterzzz13]

You know what I think the biggest issue is. We actually haven’t learned to play OW2 properly. We’re still trying to play it like OW1. It took the community a good long while to learn how to play OW1. Then the pros min/maxed it so bad with GOATS that they had to change the fucking format to role queue!!! Then we had to learn that! OW2 is only a year old and it’s changing pretty quickly. Might not feel like it, but it is. We can’t keep up yet. We don’t understand the core enough to match the pace of the changes. Eventually we will… and all the changes we begged for will just be power creep the devs are reluctant to take out.

[@Ovadiazigi]

Freedo will never lose hope even after SO many years hehe I love this guy

[@davidrich27]

One caveat to Samito’s point on counter swapping being inevitable in 5v5: the balance team has barely tried in this regard. Why have the balance team not tried to address polarized matchups on a case by case basis? For example, Monkey vs Reaper is a bad matchup… maybe shrink the size of his head hitbox? Or OW1 armor? Beams vs Dva/Gengi… maybe make matrix/deflect mitigate 50%? Ana nade vs Hog/JQ… maybe add tank passive so anti-heal only reduces healing to 20-30% of normal. Give Reaper a choke alt fire so he can better deal with flyers. Etc. Soft counters are fine, but hard counters need to be addressed.

[@Harevald]

Yup. Reaper just needs rework of his kit and be allowed to be useful outside of point blank range in exchange for his life steal. This would fix his matchups because he would be a lot better against squishies and would stop him from turning brain off against low damage tanks

[@Pango1028]

Best podcast out there and not close. The original crew is always the best but so many other great guests as well. More Spilo, Yeatle, and Bogur. Great takes

[@darksamiri4304]

This vid has been out for 6 mins, and i already watched all of it. Call me skilled or delusional it wont change that it was an absolute banger!

[@bigfudge2031]

Flats saying that playing tank feels like a job. Getting top 500 in any role should feel like a job, there are millions of players, if you want to be the best then you have to be dedicated and put in the time.

[@sparquisdesade]

I think Blizzard would get a lot more mileage out of these "PvE" events if they tweaked the event to be more like a Dead By Daylight mode. 4 players playing heroes vs one player playing the gigabuffed boss mobs. Then balance the respawn timer with the boss mob side to make it not boring for them when they die. You can also include a way to upgrade the waves of AI trash mob waves you send out as the boss mob every time you kill a hero.

[@edoardobrocca7985]

please no, we already got the daddy vs 20 kids mode

[@galev3955]

They tried that with Mei Yeti hunt and it didn't really work. Though they obviously did not put too much thought or effort into balancing that game mode.

[@chronosoul1837]

Here's an EZ solution for Comp rank system. Just let the player choose how frequent the rank updates from the Options menu. Make it update per 5 matches as the Default, and let players choose to lower that number, granularly, down to update per 1 match.

[@tyrantla7120]

This seems like a 5v5 vs 6v6 debate with out mentioning 5v5 vs 6v6. Mostly cause freeto would get triggered.

[@bowlofpie3205]

nightmare blunt rotation right here.

[@Hiroth86]

10:47 I had the same reaction as Freedo here, I felt like I was losing my mind reading the blog.

[@piusdoe8984]

Freedo explaining kpop is peak boomer

[@assimilater-quicktips]

I love the irony in boomer being used to describe someone of the generation that coined the term boomer to imply “old, doesn’t fit in the modern world”, and the boomer generation is no longer boomer

[@ReedoTV]

I missed that part. My hearing aid cut out

[@frostyato8066]

kpop is just boy and girl bands theres nothing to explain

[@rioriorio17]

@@assimilater-quicktipsI see the irony, but it’s still just a joke. The definition of boomer has changed at this point. That’s just how language works, nothing is static

[@dustinchang5089]

Topic idea inspired by Flats statement about low rank supports and healbotting at around 1 hour in: high metal rank/GM strats/considerations/play styles/advice that’s not applicable or only minor in low metal ranks. The number of times I’ve had vod reviews by friends(gold plats, I’m bronze support to be fair) telling me I was playing wrong because I wasn’t healbotting as Bap but actually trying to go for kills because that’s what people on SVB podcasts are saying to do…happens a little too often…

[@dantheman1998]

Ive been playing a ton of tank. And tanking feels miserable losing AND winning. The only tank i enjoy playing is JQ but she gets countered to easily.

[@CsPPP237]

This is a tough one. So on the one hand, supports are definitely very strong, but nerf them too much and then they just become dive fodder like they felt in the beginning. I believe what makes them so OP right now (besides a few outliers with their OP abilities specifically) is the support passive. I agree that the passives were a cool idea but they just don't work as they are right now. Worried it's going to take Blizz several patches of up-and-down buffs/nerfs to get everything right when they could just remove the passives and fix a lot of issues right off the bat. Thinking about it, without the passive heals, supports would be back to deciding "do I heal myself with my abilities, do I go in and try to not die and low health, do I back and leave my team?" it really changes things a lot I believe.

[@hashomi0596]

11:48 the pause was deadly

[@MAW-20]

The OG squad

[@chrisb5000]

Hate that the more "Carry potential" promise was BS. The only carry potential in the have is for supports. Whenever a DPS hero can somewhat carry, everyone starts crying for nerfs. When you can't keep the most popular role in your game happy, that is when your game dies because the player base moves on to other games that they can shine playing the shooty shooty game they want to play.

[@shoeshank112]

Prediction for Blizzcon: Can you smeeeelllllll what Mauga is cooking?!?!?!?!!!!!

[@TimCrosbyJr]

A-Team in the house!

[@chronosoul1837]

SVB made a good point in the last podcast, where a special "feature" should not be needed for things that are straightforward. It's like saying that Tanks have a 2nd passive on top of the reduced knockback, where all tanks have "extra Health", and they just give that obvious Tank attribute some special name.

[@amerhst1201]

SVB point on game pass limiting games is actually incorrect. There are MANY games that were more or less dead because no one bought them BUT they were brought back to life by gamepass, especially Indie games that most would have not paid to play and now they got a "guaranteed sale" just because they are on game pass, getting paid and getting exposure for their next release.

[@praisedsquishy]

Health regen should only take effect after 3 seconds of not dealing damage.

[@smoothie01]

I really like the idea of limited hero swaps.

[@mooks4751]

they should do it like rocket league ranks, you can leave the number out as default, be able to turn them on in the settings, but do say diamond 1,2,3 division 1-4 each, plat 1 div 3, plat 1 div 4, then diamond 1 div 1.

[@Taexer]

Limiting the amount of swaps in game is what ivr been saying for sooooo long. Or stopping swapping at a half way mark of a match

[@doublec128]

the beard and glasses SQUAD

[@TheDevos1]

Weren’t they just saying that the size would equal the beginning patch? That shouldn’t mean that the actual numbers will also be equivalent.

[@Shingeki__]

I kinda don't want them to remove the ult charge while swapping. But what if they put a timer on how long it is before you can swap? Maybe that would open up some mind games in game starts (kind of like how competitive Pokemon works with predicting the next swap) as well as limit people nonstop swapping. For me in my Zero elo, nothing is more frustrating than someone swapping 8 times in the first zone like BRO PICK SOMETHING STOP TRYING TO COUNTER lmao

[@gabeo.8106]

I hope Microsoft helps lead the Devs and balance team listen to the community and streamers that make a living of the game rather than rely 70% on data.

[@fainace7459]

Its always nice to see the OG squad and avengers back

[@zc8673]

🤮🤮🤮

[@austinreid2555]

I love how the MS portion just turned into a mixture of this has potential and man fuck bobert kockendik.

[@omgbutterbee7978]

What if they simplified the ranked system? Since it's so confusing.. I can imagine maybe if there was like just a number that could represent your rating or skill. Maybe they could call it a skill rating. And if you win, the number would go up. If you lose the number goes down. Easy as you please!

[@Eric-qc6bb]

samito asking what stan loona means got me dead. HES SO REAL

[@hogie48]

@2:05:00 Rank anxiety is much worse in OW2 with this rank system. At least before you would see the up and down, but if you are like 4-13 and waiting on the next win to change ranks, you just stop playing because you know you will lose a rank.

[@WizardKitty723]

My support qp wait time for me is always the shortest. I go to play the new map in arcade and everyone on my team is playing damage and I’m the only support. These guys at high level play have a total different experience from me. I agree that tanks need something to make it more fun for them.

[@_CallmeDaDa]

I'm not a podcast watcher but I haven't missed a group up podcast yet

[@lucaexdee]

why dont they just give us the option to choose the rank system we want to use? the current system still uses sr behind the curtains, surely it cant be that hard to make a few ui changes to accomodate for that

[@jorrellrichardson3181]

The point of bastion is to contest 2 tanks thats why he was made and for shields. There are so many interactions that were concepted feom having 2 tanks. They should have just made a seperate game and let us have both games. Then they could have not carried over some heroes that wouldnt work

[@jorrellrichardson3181]

Or even more drastic changes.

[@nihili4196]

They deleted one tank because they didn't felt like balancing all tanks. And now they have arguably just as many, if not more heroes to balance anyways, so that wasn't the smartest move in the long run

[@BigMamaBlack]

The only thing I can say about balance is nerfing supports won’t make zarya not a counter to orisa. It won’t make Winston not a counter to zarya. Etc.

[@noahdtdog9082]

While I’ve enjoyed the great OW2 role debates, I’ve missed the Avengers. Glad to see them back, and thanks for hosting my favorite podcast SVB. I haven’t even played the game since s5 but this podcast is genuinely amazing. Keep up the great work.

[@zc8673]

Lol "the avengers" are completely unbearable. I've never heard anything but whining out of their mouths.

[@noahdtdog9082]

@@zc8673 You must not listen too much then :3

[@Donler]

...did Flats refer to MTX shop skins as "content"? D: 2:04:48

[@gabeo.8106]

Hot Take: why do supports have a healing passive with one less tank chasing them down?

[@illitaret8780]

There is no tank to peel dps, we have been over this as a community many seasons ago.

[@gabeo.8106]

@@illitaret8780 supports already have so much more survivability now. Why do they still need the passive?

[@kimoritasu]

If they take the support passive away they'll take all of them away and then tank will really feel unplayable

[@gabeo.8106]

@@kimoritasu all of the other role passives? It’s unlikely cause supports ready carry fights alone

[@joewylie8187]

If you ever played support in ow1 you’d understand how fucking annoying chip damage is running to the otherside of the point on 2cp for a mini wasn’t the play

[@UngoKast]

The only role passive worth keeping is the supports' self heal, but it shouldn't just be support. Every role should self heal out of combat.

[@Deathsinger99]

Alternate title, “The Great Hopium(Copium) debate”

[@fox_epoch7509]

this sounds silly. but I had a lot of fun in Comp mystery heroes, last season. as frustrating as just losing a fight because you are running 3dps against goats was, it removed the "counter pick-a-thon"

[@eagerinspirit]

i feel like bliz is just so stubborn when it comes to balancing. they'll recognize orisa is in a place where she's agonizing to play agaisnt, recognize the strength of supports, recognize that certain characters are dominating all tiers of play (all information that the community has talked about for months), and then decide "lets focus on win rates." they so desperately want to balance the game in the way they've decided, and can't just admit that their balancing philosophy is flawed. to the point that they're willing to potentially kill their game rather than just listen to the community, the people who ACTUALLY PLAY THE GAME. overwatch 2 could be such a free win for them and they manage to screw it up at almost every turn.

[@gamist8166]

Halo does feel like a great comparison. I haven't gone back to infinite, but the things about forge sounds very cool. Then again, I don't really have an itch to open it back up. Having that feeling spooks me in the ways people will reflect on Overwatch like that, even if it gets even better.

[@toxicfiend]

As a support main i dont think they all should have huge dmg output, mobility, survivalbility etc. They need to remove something from each character, make them more like the OG supports and LW (who lack dmg output but has the rest of the kit). Like Kiri and Illari, nerf their dmg output to begin with. I dont wanna play dps when im queuing up for support... And for the comp system i feel like u should get a rank update after every 5 games played IF they wanna keep the current system, cause winning 5 or losing 15 before the update is way too much. And i dont like how a gold player can basically play with both bronze players AND diamond players, its way too wide. Drop it to 1 skill tier instead of 2 and the games will be more accurate and fair overall in the metal ranks as well. Hero bans could be okay IF they were only banned for like a day or two and ofc ban 1-1-1 so it becomes more fair for every role and the one tricks. Ban in alphabetic order and not just random, that way it will probs shake up the meta every week depending on which heroes that are banned. And ONLY in comp! And another hot take. Try and bring 6v6 back, it might work out pretty well IF they focus on balancing the heroes. We have more heroes now and Orisa doesnt have a shield anymore AND 2cp is gone (which were the biggest problem when it came to maps and double shield). Its so sad how tanks are atm and i truly miss the tank synergy.

[@rjnegative]

Sojourn was OP af in beta.

[@BAIARJ]

They are back together

[@tonguesmiley]

Orisa is unkillable when double picketed. I have to go dive the supports, Winston is the only good dive option for me. Then they just swap to bastion and reaper and I'm hard countered.

[@JoshDun6]

tbh that 70mil will be back in their pocket in half a year with king and their candy crush lol

[@somone755]

I think counter swapping is there answers to getting rolled every game. That was a big problem at the beginning of the OW2. Not preferable but it did solve it

[@strawberrydialectics]

point 1) re: ranked card system- honestly, as a plat-dia player, i want to see my SR numbers. i dont want them to play mind games and give me inaccurate information. i want to see my progress. even lower players can have goals & might reach high ranks, so why not just show them the number. its ranked for a reason. so, the card system has made me care less but in a negative way. im not that motivated anymore. having to wait for my progress to be shown is insufferable. not only that but the weekly/daily challenges give me too much burnout by incentivising me to complete those first, rather than queuing for comp and playing as i want to. gotta do 15 arcades, gotta queue flex, gotta plays as the 3 roles, gotta get so many unranked games in. point 2) the terminology of support/flex supp/ healer/etc- ngl ive been so tired of this semantic game. yes, its its helpful to know what each supp hero is providing and the etiquette of play from them, but the semantics have been driving me nuts for a long time. the support kits revolve around healing as a main tool. if i call them a healer, everyone knows what im refering to and it shouldnt be taken as meaning i think they "only heal". the terms are interchangeable to me and people seem to like getting on their high horse 'correcting' you if you say healer over supp, like it really matters.

[@CoconutYoyo]

I really want them to test characters like bastion, that have opportunities for insane damage, into high damage burst. In my opinion the problem with bastion is the duration of that high damage mode. If it was short burst of insane damage, even on a more frequent basis, then the amount of damage being dealt can be reacted to. I am not against characters having high damage output it should just be in small burst rather than sustained periods of up/down time. The long duration of it also makes him feel incredibly slow in OW2. I would rather do a short 2-3 seconds high burst damage, relocate and repeat then sit in turrent mode for 6 sec in no-mans land get up, run around like a headless chicken and then rinse repeat... it actually makes him less fun to play and play against IMO.