The Gundam ZZ Experience

[@adamntcaponewholikesbigcoo1749]

If ZZ isn’t a anime, that means Judau and Mark are both real people One of them is the destroyer of worlds The other is Mark

[@Sonicfalcon16]

Anime ja nai

[@will3641]

You both clearely watched the show

[@Infinity.-eo4ik]

So dose gundam zz have a dub and where can I get it

[@primusvsunicron1]

Zambot 3 was dark then Daitarn 3 was goofy, Ideon was dark then Xabungle was goofy too

[@TrevRockOne]

Dunbine was dark and L-Gaim was goofy too. The trend is clear.

[@f2r14]

Victory was dark then Turn A was (kinda) goofy

[@LichCrypt]

I think people just forget that tonal whiplash is just kind of a Tomino thing. Xabungle was goofy... as goofy as a post-apocalyptic sci-fi western about vengeance can be. That is to say, L-Gaim and Xabungle had some pretty dark moments. And don't get me started with the silly and goofy stuff Dunbine pulled between its serious scenes - the co-pilot for the protagonist is essentially a gag character. Then there's Brain Powerd...

[@Duothimir]

​@@LichCryptTrue. Tomino never had a "depression period", almost all of his shows teetered back and forth between goofy hijinks and darkness, even stuff like Zeta Gundam had plenty of lighthearted humor and Xabungle got pretty serious at times as well. I blame SRW personally for exaggerating one aspect over the others for each of these shows, since nobody actually takes the time to watch them.

[@byron2FZ]

I do find it interesting that the slapstick ZZ is so known for does date back to the original show and to a lesser extent Zeta as well (some of its slapfests leaned more comedic than dramatic). The original show had some pretty wacky slapstick animation at times, like the Zeon Gouf pilot sliding down his mobile suits leg like a pole, or the infamojs Jaburo snake.

[@arcadiolupin2841]

Zeta and the first Gundam are very slapstick too, you're right

[@pablocasas5906]

The original Gundam 0079 was in a very weird spot, it's kind of a transitional series in the history of anime, and especially mecha like Falcon mentioned in his Go Nagai video I remember a goofy scene were Amuro made an Earth Federation officer so angry that he was about to slap him, but Amuro dogged his slap, the officer made a very cartoony and strange face in that scene

[@byron2FZ]

@@pablocasas5906 i think I remember that scene and though goofy, it may have also served to show off his Newtype reflexes?

[@pablocasas5906]

@@byron2FZ I don't think it was meant to show Amuro's Newtype abilities, I interpreted it as a call-back to the infamous Bright-slap scene, Amuro now dodging the slap

[@11AleZZ]

The problem with ZZ isn't the comedy, the problem is the bad comedy, all the jokes are pretty bad for 1987, Tomino use 70s tropes in a almost 90s anime, that's the problem, also the second half was much interesting than the goofy first half.

[@fakesmile172]

I'm glad I got into Gundam in recent years, with Blu-ray releases being widely available. All the HD restorations of the cel-animated series look excellent, I guess Sunrise/Bandai really took great care in preservation and restoration. For context, I'm one of the fans that got introduced to the series through The Witch from Mercury. While that series didn't interest me much, especially not the first season, it did get me to check out the original series and watch mostly in production order from there. In fact, I'd say the original series renewed my love of Sci-fi after Disney Star Wars kind of killed it. Currently the only series I have left to watch are everything UC from Unicorn onward, G-Reco, and IBO, which I'm currently watching. ZZ is...strange. I loved MSG and Zeta, and I knew going in that ZZ would give me tonal whiplash, but I still ended up having a love/hate relationship with the series, perhaps that would change on a second watch. It could also be that I just don't usually like most Japanese comedy, including the type that ZZ uses. Yet, as a whole, the series has excellent moments and one of my favourite villains in Gundam, Haman Karn, and carries over the art style, production value, and attention to detail that I loved in Zeta.

[@SasamiTM]

I really like Mashymre’s character because yes he’s goofy but that’s because he’s trying to be a heroic, chivalrous, soldier of honor in a world that won’t support that, he’s not a bad pilot or stupid, he’s a man trying to live up to an ideal that simply has no place in the world he lives in and fights in the name of someone else who couldn’t care less about him which is a very gundam tragedy in itself

[@bpfoley89]

You called 08th MS team bad? I strongly disagree.

[@datkat2001]

3:03 Neil Sedaka has stated that he doesn't really care about his songs being used to make the OPs (iirc Mizu no Hoshi e Ai wo Komete's base song wasn't even released) The issue is the record companies (especially the Japanese ones) are so draconian it's infinitely easier to play it safe. Edit: i'm 99% sure you know this, but Yazan is LITERALLY the Gundam version of Dick Dastardly, as in SD Gundam literally copied Wacky Races to the point they couldn't release it on DvD and he filled that role

[@pablocasas5906]

Speaking solely about that SD Gundam Wacky Racers spoof, it still amazes me that Wacky Racers was relatively popular in Japan that various anime have parodied it, like Osomatsu-san, Koni-chan, and you could argue Mario Kart is an homage to the cartoon as well But looking at Mercury's video about the Time Bokan villains videon, it seems Hannah Barbera cartoons left an impact on anime that is not well known

[@datkat2001]

@@pablocasas5906 It wasn't even the only Hannah Barbera- to-SD thing made, they also made one based off of Laff-a-lympics. the general connection there is probably pretty interesting as you said

[@mechamaniac1567]

@@pablocasas5906 I think Wacky Races and it's Japanese popularity is something Falcon should cover one day. It's rare that a Western cartoon got as ingraved in Japanese pop culture as WR did.

[@MercuryFalcon]

The Neil Sedaka bit was a joke, I know he doesn't care if a cartoon has a song based on one of his.

[@DIEGhostfish]

I think the JAPANESE rights are ironclad, it's the international ones that Sunrise never bothered to buy. Would be cool to see Mr. Sedaka's interview.

[@Jay828__]

Glad you're back. Spot on about first experiencing a TV show or film. It's not taken into account much these days.

[@jessemartin7718]

Yeah I agree, ZZ gets too much... what the hell you say about 08th MS Team???

[@PhantasmPhoton]

Yeah that blew my mind. Id assume most UC fans would at least like the terrestrial mobile-suit maneuvering. Wing is also pretty good its just for a particular audience. Its not badly written or animated.

[@Detective_L]

That might be the first time I’ve ever someone say they hate MS Team and Wing and I’ve never heard anyone like the first half of ZZ. Very strange

[@ZEBASS]

@@Detective_L Same. I know about people disliking Wing and I get their reasons, but MS Team definitely not! Also first half of ZZ was near impossible for me to watch, but I recognize I really liked the last 10 or 15 episodes of the show.

[@yuugienjoyer]

I think all the gundam series are pretty cool except seed (the only series I've finished is 0080)

[@CoracaoAcidental98]

​@@Detective_L "How strange, someone that doesn't have the same opinion others have. Impossible!"

[@jonathanmulondo9206]

People say that Evangelion is the darkest mecha but Gundam deserves that title

[@mechamaniac1567]

99% of people who claim shit about Evangelion haven't even watched Evangelion. The amount of disinformation surrounding that show is so vast they helped irredeemably corrupt the wider anime fandom's perception of mecha as a genre.

[@jonathanmulondo9206]

@@mechamaniac1567 Agreed

[@yangwen-li4283]

Tomino's Ideon be like: hold my beer 🗿

[@jonathanmulondo9206]

@@yangwen-li4283 Ideon makes Evangelion look like a Disney Channel series

[@EmoGundamAce]

I've been a Gundam superfan since the moment I first saw Gundam Wing in middle school. From there, I watched any western release that I could get my hands on. When I was in college, I made a friend who loved Gundam as much as I do. In 2010, we decided to watch it all. We...uh... acquired the library, and went through MSG. Then we got to see Zeta for the first time. It was amazing, and Zeta remains my favorite Gundam series to this day. When we got into ZZ it was... shocking. But we quickly got into it, and I definitely still enjoy watching it. The tonal shift is a lot, but the series does get to the Gundam of it all eventually.

[@HYDRAdude]

Just want to say that Cartoon Network did in fact finish the original run of Mobile Suit Gundam. The show was pulled from the normal Toonami block for a while but was allowed to finish later on during the Toonami Midnight Run block. Also, the whole 9/11 thing was just used as an excuse to pull the show for it's poor performance. As for Gundam ZZ, the show is the epitome of a 7/10 for me. The show has very high-highs but also lots of low-lows too. It's worth a watch but probably not a re-watch IMO.

[@Henshingod]

Wait, back up...what the hell is wrong with 08th MS team?

[@frankjaeger2565]

Forced romance and a change in direction due to the death of the director. Also, the bonus episode is useless

[@federationprime]

@@frankjaeger2565Wasn’t that Stardust Memory?

[@mechadeka]

It accurately describes both.

[@EnerKaizer]

ZZ is unironically my personal favorite UC Gundam show, and Judeau is my favorite main universe Gundam pilot, and the ZZ is my favorite Main universe Gundam (with his Build fighters Variant, the Tryon-3, being my absolute favorite Gundam). It is as you said, people wanted more of the dreary edgelord tone we got at the end of Zeta, which honestly I think would've destroyed Gundam narratively for the future. It would've had the same detrimental effekt on Gundam story-telling as GoT's random character killing did on the fantasy genre.

[@arx3516]

Judau is essentially your typical super robot pilot. The scenbthat exemplifies it the most is when Wang (the AEUG director) tried to beat him like he did with Kamille, Judau dodged and knocked him out. And to be honest the ZZ Gundam itself feels like, with its combining mechanism and forhead beam, like an hybrid between Getter and Gundam.

[@KathyXie]

The best way to enjoy older anime like gundam ZZ is watching the fansub version if you can still find it.

[@FarCritical]

Really liked the comedic start of ZZ

[@magickoopa24]

Great video! I did my watch of 0079-CCA earlier this year, and i also appreciated the comedic tones of ZZ after the immense heaviness of Zeta's ending. Something I found roaming the web about ZZ had me learn that part of the reason why japanese fans at the time didn't like the tone change was a worry that gundam was going to turn into a gag series, which with hindsight we can see wasn't a permanent change. Really glad to see you mention the historical context behind how we watch shows, cause i also am fascinated by it.

[@kosmokat111]

I do find the ZZ crossdressing arc deeply funny, but also a little bit touching? I'm sure it wasn't intentional given the era, but Lino straight up finds a subtle new confidence in himself after those eps. He's apprehensive at first but seems genuinely flattered by peoples comments and comes away from it feeling more "lino" than ever. I find it pretty relatable ngl. (Now, I'm not saying lino is trans, I don't think the show suggests this, it could easily be the opposite. this experience, briefly being someone else, could have instilled lino with further confidence in *who he is*)

[@Revcharge]

figures why Yazan is Dick Dastardly in that OVA where they lampooned the Wacky Races.

[@themarky2714]

1:37 sounds like a certain AU that should've wrapped up a trilogy as well. Of course I'm talking about Gundam X... if you're counting Turn A as the AU equivalent to CCA. From where I'm from, I was never able to watch UC from TV, and had to actively search and build an interest for it online (yeah, Unicorn was my entry to UC). To be fair to 8th MS Team, it didn't receive the same amount of vitriol Wing had upon re-evaluation despite having some weird (maybe melodramatic is a better word) moments like Wing and ZZ. If anything, it was Stardust Memory that got more heat due to Nina's actions (which the manga addressed).

[@MarxMayhem]

I always thought that the mood shift from Zeta to ZZ was because the audience would be desensitized to the constant violence. As such, I appreciate the idea that ZZ started by letting us know that there are ordinary people there and how war would change them, for better or worse. Anyway, thank you for the vid. For all its flaws, I still like ZZ. It knows what it wants to do, and it's not afraid to drop a colony to do it.

[@SpScarletSpider]

That was definitely the goal. Tomino wanted to bring in some levity. You can see that with Judau as a protagonist well; he's a lot more emotionally stable and grounded compared to Amuro and Kamille.

[@matt0044]

I definately think the comedy being so slapstick was a bit of a thermal shock on a narrative level even with knowing what was going into it. Maybe if it was a self-contained storyline and not a direct sequel, it would've been more welcomed generally.

[@NecromancyForKids]

Yeah, I think the main problem is that it was coming from something already established and completely changing the mood of things and characterizations. If they were all new characters or a new series entirely, it may have been less of a shock to people. But then the question is if they would have watched it in the first place.

[@mechamaniac1567]

I think it's precisely the fact it's not completely standalone that drastically changes the perspective. As Falcon mentioned, Xabungle and Daitarn 3 are a thing and those two are generally the most well loved Tomino shows in the west (not including Gundam, obviously). That's why Kid Hora's behaviour in Xabungle, for example, feels natural while Yazan's in ZZ is at complete odds with his ruthless Feyd - Rautha knockoff persona from Zeta.

[@DIEGhostfish]

@@mechamaniac1567 Yazan's not nearly as degenerate as a Harkonen. He grabbed some dude's dick and his most famous line is "I'm gonna violate you," but he also refused the colony gassing mission and genuinely flipped out at the complete insanity of deploying his underlings in Hizaks.

[@Rkader11]

Love the the 1st 3 minutes of this man. Must have been tough finding information on the topic and trying to condense it as much as possible a skill overlooked by many Im also glad you mentioned how most people experience a show for the 1st time since its not a discussed topic especially given how limited pircacy and internet sites were so most went off of memory. Thi gs can get lost in the sauce and reintrocing oneself to the same material can be a eye opener or deal breaker

[@Ineedgames]

This is one of my favourite Gundams. A lot of Gundam takes them selves too seriously with not so fun protagonist. This one has a great ballance.

[@sandman45]

your right about how we experience something should be brought up more. i've thought about batch releases vs weekly releases too, and after the writers strike i hear that's one thing they might bring back

[@arcadiolupin2841]

Thanks for the video, it perfect explains the context and I love ZZ

[@RayShadow278]

Tomino is at his peak not writing dark shows, but rather goofy fun adventures

[@mudawott]

That occasionally punch you in the gut

[@Bayofthe91st]

ZZ are like his mental episode of defining goofiness, like something that happened once every 3-5 years

[@CoinOpTV]

excellent videos and what a shame about the YT hassle - been there many times myself dude it’s truly a headache

[@barryvercueil2346]

08th MS team bad?

[@NecromancerNightmare]

Yeah that threw me. One of my favourites. Really appreciate the lowered power level

[@drsuchomimus]

Rewatched it recently. Personally thought it suffered from some of the same problems as 0083, just to a lesser extent: spectacular animation, but with a lackluster plot and characters.

[@wil2197]

Yes. Very.

[@thedudeabiding1582]

N-nuh-uh!

[@wil2197]

@@thedudeabiding1582 Uh-huh

[@ayrkebraga2626]

I'm going to be honest. Z is my favorite anime and starting ZZ felt like going from the top of the mountain to falling face first into mud, but god damnit i'm thankful for it. I'm not edgy enough to think that dark=better, but i do preffer the darker setting of Zeta, but i will say that after the first few episodes, ZZ became one of my favorite anime, up on par with the original 0079. Like starting from episode 10 onwards, when the argama leaves shangri-la, the show grew progressively more serious, specially by using the potential of the new cast they introduced with ZZ. Yes, the anime in general is lighter, but when the situation presents itself, it is almost as dark as Zeta, and the world reacts pretty well to it. Plus it had me on a "fuck you" moment at the chinese colony episode, where my favorite sound track (the mobile suit fight soundtrack from Zeta) finally played but on the goofiest battle ever, and i couldn't help but feel amused that, in a paralel universe, tomino did that to shove on my face that it was not just more Zeta gundam, and i really liked it. As a whole, ZZ is an anime that depends a lot on previous' series build up to catch up to, but alone, it becomes a very well set up saga, and god help me haman karn is peak fiction, and i will die defending her honor if such is required of me. Please, watch ZZ. It also gave my favorite character (kamille) a very good ending to his arc and made it all worth it in the end, and, even then, it encapsulates the philosophy if tomino's work perfectly. Children are the future, we just gotta give them a chance.

[@DragonBall-Manga-1984]

why do you think that Mobile Suit Gundam: The 08th MS Team is Bad?

[@Theogrn]

I was kinda shocked when he said that too without elaborating

[@CoracaoAcidental98]

I don't know for him, but in my opinion is way too much overhyped by a certain subset of the community, with many of the reasons being complete lies that I swear, most of the people who think is some of the better Gundam probably didn't watch the original three shows at all, or anything after it. I think the same for Stardust, but I do think Stardust has way more value than 08th but still far from great.

[@Theogrn]

@@CoracaoAcidental98 i mean thats fair but i think honestly 8th MS and 0083 are some of the best visually if nothing else. Beautiful animation, regardless of what anime it is. Also, im a big fan of the lack of space magic (new types) in both shows.

[@alfieomega]

well written video essay! I usually have a short attention span but this kept me engaged throughout! if I have one comment, I feel that there was at least an attempt of a slow shift towards darker themes. the Cecelia arc was the first foray, and it would lead to even more personal losses later down the line it's not quite a hard turn of immediately dark, there was an attempt to slowly get into it, but then they just step on the gas after that

[@AtsukoR33]

The light hearted tone in the early episodes of ZZ really got me fuming over what the hell ZZ gundam even is after coming straight from Z Gundam, i held back and i kept watching though, and it got really good honestly. I rewatched the entire show shortly after finishing it to come to appreciate it all. It has become one of my favorites. One of the reasons the early episodes got to me is just how easy Bright Noa was being thrown around by a bunch of kids, where he'd normally give out some 'discipline'. I was quite amazed by that fact alone, they were just runnning around stealing the Z Gundam and no slaps, i was shocked after how camille and amuro got so slapped around for even just saying things.

[@Destroyer6263]

This is weird. I kind of have a mirrored perspective, even though I only watched ZZ with the Right Stuff Bluray release and I didn’t really interact with the online fandom. I LOVE the middle of ZZ when their on Earth, somewhat annoyed by the beginning (though find it funny af), and kinda hate the past part when they invade Side 3 (mostly how Axis Zeon just kinda dies by infighting and Haman’s unceremonious send off). All the episodes on Earth are peak Gundam though, but I love how Zeta ends and disagree with the choice to radically correct on artistic grounds so idk. Also, 8th MS Team is PEAK! I will fight you! If you are going to re-evaluate any of the OVAs re-evaluate 0083. I love it but it thematically conflicts with the rest of the franchise and is kinda Imperial Japanese fan fiction.

[@FrMZTsarmiral]

I think so too. ZZ has a very weak first 20 episodes, then it gets really good and then the final episodes are kinda weak specially with how Haman went from this dangerous woman who was 5 steps ahead of most people in Zeta to little more than a woman with a broken heart.

[@therealzerodl]

before toonami, they brought Gundam F91 over to the west (was aired on the Sci-Fi Channel in the early 90s sometimes) it was the first gundam series I saw.

[@gustavohernandeza.890]

Thanks for the video and hope your appeal is successful so your channel is monetized again. The first third of ZZ is rough: despite liking Judeau, the rest of the gang was not as great Roux and Elle are barely used and I dislike Beecha and Mondo (the Zeon villians were meh). But as the story got serious after the African storyline the show got better. Also, Haman Khan rules (thanks to Yoshiko Sakakibara's great job as VA)

[@Undying3001]

Wing was badass, one of the coolest things i had ever seen.

[@XX-sp3tt]

"Because they're bad." Down vote. And close the video. Remove from my history.

[@MercuryFalcon]

Wing starts good and ends good but the meat of that sandwich is rotten. 08th MS team is just corny, it has 1 episode I like and an ending that tops everything that came before it in terms of its corniness.

[@WrestlingColin]

I think the point about the time and place we experienced a show is immensely important. Before streaming, when you had to run home from school or download some 140p fan subbed file from Kazaa to see this stuff, shit really hit different. And to that point... I'll never forgive you for saying Gundam Wing is bad.

[@jerankorak7997]

Damn, good to see you back.

[@GeremyG]

Double Zeta is peak

[@KazuyaMithra]

I threw you some Patreon bucks, nice to see you back man

[@ForceRoundsPenguin]

I started ZZ shortly after watching Zeta. The tone shift was very weird, but I needed some light hearted fun when I binged the series while in isolation recovering from Covid. Seeing the Argama crew, and Kamille and Fa happy in the ending was very uplifting, and I appreciate that.

[@xnflg3074]

this is really fucking well written. good job.

[@carlcouture1023]

I watched all the way through Zeta and then immediately started ZZ. I had been told that it's slapsticky and that makes it bad, which I think lowered my expectations to the point where honestly I was blown away. If I hadn't seen the new tone coming I might have been annoyed with it, so you're definitely right that context matters. Knowing it was gonna be different, I could laugh at Chara Soon and declare Mashymire bestboi. And then... the mid series dick punches start. And you know what? I liked it! We saw not just Mondo but Judau change and grow from enduring tragedies. Is it the best Gundam? No, not at all. But it least it doesn't have a Gundam based on a windmill in it.

[@randallmiyashiro643]

The problem with the initial sales for Zeta on DVD was that it was originally only sold as a 50 episode box set. I think it was about 200USD, although can't remember. It also included "dubtitles" which were corrected to proper subtitles when Right Stuf released the series in smaller collections. So having bought the LDs and the import DVDs I ended up buying the dubtitled box set, only to buy the rerelease with proper subs, and later the BD releases making Zeta the series that I have purchased the most number of times. You are also correct about the backlash for Gundam ZZ from my perspective as I did manage to watch it as it was being released. Not only was it a jarring change, but as this was only the third Gundam there was this sense if this was the direction that Gundam would take from here on. I was a huge Zeta fan, and despite not having copies for a couple years on video until 1987 (Betamax) would go through the film comics on a very regular basis. I would still follow ZZ with the small hope to see Char return and the story returning to a more Zeta mood. Interesting thing is that I didn't imagine that Char would return with the Neo Zeon and be fighting against Amuro again, so I also initially reacted a bit negatively to CCA which I now love.

[@matt0044]

Pity there's yet to be a dub. I could see this entry being an interesting airing on the current Toonami block.

[@KKAkuoku]

The closest we’ll get is the English versions of those Dynasty Warriors Gundam games for the PS3. Judau’s a playable character and several ZZ characters pop up during gameplay, plus it’s all dubbed by the same company that handled the Toonami Gundam dubs

[@fakesmile172]

I thought there was a dub, but it's mostly lost?

[@DIEGhostfish]

I wouldn't trust anyone but the old Ocean team who did Wing and 0079. Scott McNeil as Judau I think might work but he's getting old.

[@DIEGhostfish]

@@fakesmile172 Southeast Asia English dub yes, mostly lost media.

[@himwo.]

I love your well researched and written videos!!

[@MILDMONSTER1234]

3:46 it’s amazing how the opinions on Wing has shifted dramatically from being loved to now hated and the inverse effect for Victory and Turn A yet no matter how much time passes everyone still thinks Seed sucks in the west lol

[@ttkyle231]

Double Zeta is just weak early with the tonal shift. Once that arc is done it's just as good as Zeta to me.

[@XCAltoona]

I love ZZ's early episodes and I'm not afraid to say it

[@XCAltoona]

Okay but honestly, Tiger Baum is pretty bad

[@doubledio3061]

Honestly I kinda like some of the weird tonal shifts . It adds some much needed levity so watching it doesn’t just become exhausting

[@Kupomasters57]

I think the reason Double Zz was negatively received was DUE to it taking place right after zeta gundam. If it took place waaaay after zeta it probably would have been received much better.

[@Azmodeus87]

Couldn't agree more on your comments on setting and expectations. It's a big part of why i find some of my own experiences being so different from people who experiences anime in a post-streaming world. Case in point: YYH, and it's Dark tournament arc. While seen by many now as one of the best arcs of it's kind, it was really not viewed as such at the time. That's because, it was a very long arc, with several matches that's clearly not meant to have few (if any) lasting consequences. This is A-ok if you pirate the whole thing in one go, or binge it on streaming. Watching it weekly on TV or on DVD (the latter of which i did), meant you could wait weeks before something worthwhile happened. Tl;Dr setting absolutely colours once experience, especially what does and doesn't try your patience.

[@mintjaan]

honestly, I kind of lucked out watching ZZ right after rewatching G Gundam, The two are much more similar in tone to each other than ZZ is to Zeta and G is to Wing. However, After War X is a great show to pair with either. It has a lot of light-hearted movement while still being engaging. It's also relatively unknown to a lot of Western Fans and wasn't received well when it aired in Japan. if you are looking for more underrated Gundam series, I recommend it.

[@somegnome3398]

After War is weirdly hated by a lot of western fans, too. An apparently common criticism is that it’s too dark and angsty, which makes me wonder if they saw the same show I did.

[@NOIDEDU]

I had a fun time watching ZZ for the first time. I just like the way tomino does humour, its really silly. Also the animation was a big reason, its as stylized as it get for gundam, probably the second best looking tv gundam after Turn A.

[@pandapalace11]

I still love Gundam Wing and G Gundam. But ZZ is enjoyable too

[@Diakron79]

I got one thing about that Armored Gundam ZZ mecha ..... That mecha should've been a remodified version of The Argama. Would've been cool if The Argama were the first transformable Gundam battle fortress ship.

[@Kuikkamies]

ZZ has the best MS designs of the era, it has puri, it has the best Gundam OP thus far with Silent Voice, it has Puru, its tone shift doesn't forget having some levity still, it has Puri, Haman Karn gets to shine in a whole new way, it has Puru, it doesn't have Char, and before I forget, it has Puru.

[@myanimeroom9350]

Welcome back MercuryFalcon. I haven't watched ZZ Gundam yet although I got to see the characters and mechs whenever I play Super Robot wars. I guess a lot of people hated ZZ Gundam because it was different compared to its predecessor and having it be lighthearted is a stark contrast to the overall theme and tone of what an UC Gundam is all about.

[@pablocasas5906]

I remember during my last years of high-school, back in 2011, I decided to watch most of the Gundam shows that I could download with Spanish subs and I managed watched the entire U.C. series I actually enjoyed ZZ, I known the show has a weird tonal shift compared to Zeta, but it was a nice change, I also found the characters very likeable Uh, also I forgot to mention, the titular Gundam ZZ's design is great, I wonder if the kit was successful back when the show aired. And we also have to remember that Ple/Puru was one of the most popular anime characters in general in the 80s

[@arcadiolupin2841]

agreed

[@drsatanrx]

I just wish the first 33% of ZZ was in an ova and condensed to make it less of a slog to get through

[@DooderMcAltair]

I agree about the experience of seeing these things as anime is something that, for a time, was often impossible to enjoy optimally for various reasons. All that said, the way I experienced ZZ was a fresh pirated BD rip almost ten years ago after I just finished Zeta. I did not enjoy the comedic shift to ZZ specifically because everything in it is coming directly off of Zeta, complete with all that remained of the cast by its conclusion. I gave it a chance and finished it but I'm in no hurry to see it again. The best summary I can give is that ZZ introduces a bunch of wacky cartoon characters and magically and arbitrarily makes the setting established by Mobile Suit Gundam and Zeta Gundam really really stupid in order to facilitate them not dying horrible so they can become the new main characters. The first appearance of Yazan establishes this as he's shown to be highly skilled and ruthless up to his final appearance in Zeta which was days prior chronologically, but now he's just Wile E. Coyote because if he was his usual self the limping Argama crew and their new rag tag kids would have gotten much worse than Saegusa getting killed (Only to show up again at the very end because they either forgot they killed him or neglected to mention he lived). There are great parts in the show and it's cool but even in a vacuum it has trouble deciding if it wants to be zany or serious. I don't hate the show and I understand why it is the way it is. Victory's historical reception vs. its fan re-evaluation also hits with me, as I first saw Victory during a very bitter and dark time in my life and my real-life circumstances colored my opinion of it, which was that it was terrible and I hated it. But then I learned more about the production and how similar Tomino's disposition was to my own, how so many things I didn't enjoy were either corporate meddling or Tomino and the staff doing stupid shit to spite the corporation for meddling. What really changed was my disposition after the fact. I thought about all the great dramatic parts occasionally over the years and re-evaluated it myself and find I want to see it again. I still think Victory has the most hectic and exciting final stretch of any Gundam media. For me, Victory honestly feels like an inverse to ZZ. ZZ's comic farce foundation is not solid enough for its serious moments to land gracefully, and Victory's occasional attempts at comical farce fall flat because most weeks you're tuning into an oppressive macabre spectacle. Great video as usual!

[@Balevolt]

I don't know what people were talking about ZZ is in character for Gundam. Is it my Favorite U.C. story, no, but it fits.

[@mudawott]

Its worth noting that while ZZ is more comedic, original Zeta is more of an odd one out, with almost no lighthearted moments. Even the introduction of Shinta and Qum who are meant to be there as levity, only manage to put Fa in a stranglehold until shes the only pilot left and there is no choice but to rely on her. 0079 was full of moments where you could laugh or giggle. It feature traumatised psychic toddlers foiling a military empire for god sake.

[@LeeFox1337]

I came down here just to say 2 things. 1. Just watched Victory Gundam in 2021 and it is on another level of miserable and hate it. 2. You do good work.

[@fakesmile172]

Late U.C. is so bleak that a pregnant woman has to fight on the front lines...

[@Baddest_of_Men]

I watched it myself in 2022 after putting it off for years, and I have to say, I'm of the same opinion. That said, if it being like that was the reason why we got Turn A as we got it, I'm fine with it being the way that it is.

[@congrilla-]

Yeah, that part of the video talking about people reevaluating Victory shocked me to no end. The hate for ZZ comedic is tone is definitely overblown and I eagerly agree with the inconsistency later on being a bigger issue. V however is irredeemable in how cruel it is to its cast and its audience. Zeta's depressing ending is earned with the sense of dread and inevitability it spreads through out the show and (for the most part) makes you care about the characters that die. Victory kills indiscriminately just because its a Gundam show and then jarring zanier scenes than ZZ pop up when you'd least expect them.

[@Mitch93]

I have had a mercury falcon shaped hole in my life for too dang long!

[@darktitan3025]

I went into Zeta Gundam with high expectations and was left a bit disappointed and frustrated. Too many pointless battles, poor pacing (a common problem with 50 episode Gundam shows) and the Rosamia plot felt like a complete recycle of Four. Also the Titans felt cartoonishly evil, so it didn't even have that "there are no clear good and bad guys" element from the original Gundam. The Titans were just straight up irredeemable. So after all that, and with the knowledge that ZZ Gundam was a weird experience I still gave up on it after around ... 15 episodes? (the part where the gang go to a moon with indigenous looking people, I think). The main, especially Beecha and Oleg were so annoying, I was actively rooting for them to be killed. Roux was good and I was interested in where Haman's Neo Zeon was going, but the bad just outweigh the good. Maybe I will give it another chance one day.

[@rdogg114]

I think its interesting that Tomino was trying to set up the titans two electric boogaloo for a while but ended up getting cockblocked on that.

[@CantankerousDave]

And then you meet Marida Cruz in Gundam Unicorn, learn her real identity and get her backstory and get super depressed.

[@designatedred]

Def agree that the setting and experience of how you encounter or watch anything really will set an impression. There's a lot of shows I didn't give a good chance with due to the circumstances of how I was watching it. I also have an extreme fondness for particular series from the fansub vhs days, even in retrospect they weren't very good. And oh god, Stone Ocean is such a perfect example. That whole ordeal was heartbreaking.

[@LatitudeSky]

The "how" part of discovering Gundam absolutely influenced me. Thanks to the endless impenetrable Gundam articles in Animag, all I needed to know about Gundam, for decades, was that Gundam didn't NEED any MORE fans and could be safely ignored. I did watch Wing, once. The sound effects were good. The show wss otherwise only worth the single viewing. And I like X Gundam because I found the music CDs and fell in love with that aspect without ever having seen the show. Once I did see it, the show turned out to be good and I greatly enjoy it. And I like Dragonar a lot. It is way better than people say. It just needed a bigger animation budget. Neither of those shows have a lot of fans or got those damn Animag pagefiller articles, so I feel like there actually is room to be a fan of these shows with having all the oxygen in the room consumed by the existing fans. That said, I never had any interest in the gated ZZ because it's a sequel to those damn Animag article and golly, have I mentioned enough how much I hated that stuff?

[@2lobo777]

ZZ Gundam was the first Gundam series I ever watched, and I was completely baffled. I did not got to see OG Gundam and Z until the 2010s but there was a lot of info online before that to know what these shows were about. Coming to ZZ I was expecting a heavy military drama as the other shows were depicted to be. I did enjoy ZZ and the latter half became way more dramatic but for many year until I got to see the original it felt that I was missing something.

[@OtepRalloma]

Starting the video with Stand Up to the Victory as background music? Based.

[@francoikari5085]

The big problem with ZZ is that it takes place in the same universe as the original Gundam and Z. If it had been a unique series or a spin-off like G-Gundam it would have been better accepted, it would have been a much better idea than being a direct sequel. It's sad to see completely mischaracterized characters like Bright. I confess that I didn't like this series at all until it changed the tone again because it's what suits the Gundam universe more and I feel that it was here that Tomino started to losing his hand in the following series that he directed and even the series outside the franchise that he directed.

[@CoracaoAcidental98]

How it mischaracterized Bright?

[@Bayofthe91st]

I think the blame can be directed at how the plot was prepared in Zeta's final arc. It introduces us to the third power Neo Zeon faction as the next major threat for the next series and shows most protagonists in a dire situation. Then apparently ZZ presented Neo Zeon like Team Rocket obsessing with Pikachu, sweeping legacy character almost immediately, and probably the cherry on top is how the main antagonist Haman Karn got Thanos treatment to the very last 2-3 episodes after previously being introduced in Zeta's finals as hint of next key figure.

[@attackofthecopyrightbots]

"Someone acting sexual or cute, related to OWO and UWU. Similar to "bestie". The word "oomfie" usually carries this definition combined with one of the following alternate definitions. Sometimes it is meant as a joke or said ironically. However sometimes the word is used with zero sexual connotation. 1. Twitter follower or mutual. See also: "OOMF" which means "One of my Followers", "One of my Friends", or occasionally "One Of My 'Follow Topics'." 1a. Sometimes specifically a person sharing a lot of personal information on Twitter, and the viewer is an outsider and mere witness. 2. Significant other, close friend. 3. Any given person who looks or acts sexy or cute. 4. Specific or nonspecific anime girl. Possibly a waifu." 1-4 pick which one

[@projectmessiah]

Agreed

[@Jojonogogo]

All I have to say is that this is my favorite Gundam tv series. Not favorite Gundam thing, just tv series. All criticisms are invalid.

[@therealzerodl]

imagine Neon Genesis Evangelion, but as an 70s-80s gag comedy anime.

[@richtersundeen6105]

Has "Stand Up To The Victory" blaring while saying "they were only missing one series" is quite a comment. The West quite famously also missed the one that song was from.

[@safruddinaly5822]

They hate it dark but when it given light atmosphere people still complain. People being too choser sometimes

[@DIEGhostfish]

12:02 To be fair to the evil harem lord, he doesn't even touch her, she jumps onto her boyfriend for a fall of about 5 feet and somehow just dies. because the animation budget ran out or something,

[@rameybutler-hm7nx]

My brother in the 80's used to import japanese mecha model kits. I wish i could remember the name of the catalog he ordered from. I know he ordered the catalog from starlog.

[@izofdoors4913]

For my experience with ZZ, at first I had it as a “maybe” after I finished watching Zeta, then started watching ZZ a couple weeks later I thought the early episodes did pretty well to get you used to the new tone and character cast, and while the eps after the crew left Shangri-La were cool, they weren’t too memorable outside of a few. Then the earth arc hits, and the show for me became really good! Around this point I started to grow attached to the main cast more than I ever did with Zeta, and it really helped with my enjoyment of the show. All of this led up to honestly one of my favorite finales in Gundam, and Haman became my favorite character because of this series.

[@hiromaster666]

I do agree that what ZZ suffer most from, is the tonal whiplash from watching it right after Zeta. I'm sure that i would've liked it, and might like it on rewatch, but binging the main UC back to back I hated it.

[@DrBillogna]

The humor of ZZ is good, but its implementation is unbearable. I started Gundam for the first time starting from 079 about two years ago. I knew it was gonna be a comedic show, but having Kamille's corpse hanging over the show dampens every joke. I really wish they waited at least 5 episodes before reintroducing the Argama crew to Judau's gang. The best parts of ZZ are when the writing is goofy and distant from any of Zeta's cast and when Mashymre is on screen.

[@Forthelemon]

Couldn't agree less. The fact that over all the goofy shenanigans the tragedy of Kamille lurks in the background is incredibly powerful and foreshadows what's to come later. The structure of ZZ is really well-considered imo

[@DrBillogna]

I would have liked Kamille and Mashymre kicking each other in the balls more if the writers weren't basing episodes on concepts like "The noobs are significantly better pilots than the Zeta cast for some reason." That they drop most of the Zeta cast by the end made it feel like the scenario writers didn't know what to do with any one from Zeta.

[@rapidemboar4625]

​@@DrBillogna That makes me wonder if the Zeta cast was dropped for similar reasons Char was. I remember reading he was planned to be in the show, and even made it into the intro, but with CCA being developed in tandem it was decided he'd only show up in the film and was written out of ZZ. Though at the same time, I'm not sure if the timeline matches up well enough for this to be plausible for the Zeta cast's case.

[@Forthelemon]

@@DrBillogna I agree, the treatment of Fa in the early episodes sucks and is probably my least favourite thing about ZZ

[@Videogamer-555]

Didn't all old Gundam series, including the original Mobile Suit Gundam get an English dub VHS release? It doesn't have the yellow tint effect that the DVD release had, if I remember correctly.

[@WilhelmDriscoll]

I have to say that going into ZZ knowing the mood whiplash was there definitely helped me with not being upset with it. I had bought the Zeta Gundam DVD's back in the day and had "obtained" a digital copy of ZZ to watch around a year later. And while I enjoy the silly aspects of ZZ Gundam I still feel I would have preferred if it hadn't veered the direction it did at the beginning and enjoyed it even more when it went back to darker subject matter. Probably not surprising since the original Gundam and Zeta are tied for my favorite Gundam series.

[@kosmokat111]

I gotta say having watched all of ZZ recently, I found the humor genuinely refreshing, it'd be one thing if the show was going for comedy but failed. but it doesn't, it succeeds at being genuinely funny more often than not, at least imo.

[@AlberichY]

Up until this point in time the only thing I care about ZZ is Elpeo Ple.

[@MaxiusTheGod]

I knew nothing of what other people's opinion on Gundam were when I started watching the UC shows. I finished Zeta Gundam, then immediately started Double Zeta Gundam. I fucking hated all the goofy stuff. However, later on once Double Zeta Gundam because serious again I really liked it. To me Double Zeta is 50% the best of gundam, and 50% the worst, and it whiplashes between the two wildly.

[@RamblingAbyss]

Yeah I made the mistake of going into ZZ blind after just finishing Zeta. and boy it was a rough time for me. But after spending like half a year going through it. I can say I came out a lot more positive then I originally thought I would be. Probably helps that I like Judau quite a bit.

[@john-paulstephens5151]

Hell yeah. This vid got recommended to me after months of trying to remember what your channel name was 🤧 I've been subbed for a minute. I knew if I watched enough Kenny Lauderdale and Pyramid Inu that the algorithm would bless me yet again. I guess I should hit that bell and whatnot lol

[@LowellLucasJr.]

Personally I love Double Zeta! I watched the series raw in a garage way back in 95 building model kits. I was amazed at its art and the beautiful mesh designs! Years later, I was granted a subbed HK version before getting the Right Stuf edition. It was thrilling to rewatch it and a bit odd at the final shifts. Don't get me wrong, its well deserved after finishing the very depressing Zeta series. Some folks were angry at ZZ, and claimed Tomino took charge later which was why the series got more serious. I'm just glad you cleared that up as this had been an annoying rumor for years!❤ Excellent video my friend! Look forward to more!

[@ace15Nura]

My friend who was heavy into Gundam told me about ZZ "It takes 22 episodes to get really good" and when I finally watched it, he wasn't wrong

[@Baddest_of_Men]

I only got into Gundam in late 2013/early 2014 as a teenager, mostly thanks to Gundam Breaker. The Unicorn really caught my eye for whatever reason, so that was my proper introduction to the anime. ZZ was one of the earlier ones that I watched after that, but it's been far too long since I looked at the stuff I watched when I started Gundam, aside from Unicorn. If I ever have the time in the future, I really want to go back to watch Z and ZZ once more.

[@HapZungLam]

I watched it when I was a kid. No memory what so ever. Then I rewatch it when gundam info has put it up. I have to say I love double Zeta more than Zeta gundam. Oh and for those who likes Double Zeta. Make sure that you read the Moon Gundam comiic. Moon Gundam start off at the colony Moon Moon that Double Zeta the last few episodes had taken place. Many recognize character like Amuro and Princess Mineva are in the story. An nonstop action comic that bridges ZZ and Chars counter atatck.

[@Zenotron]

Thank you so much for this video! We need more people clearing the air on the misconceptions of ZZ Gundam and talking about it in a more positive light. It's really bad when you got influencer douchebags like Woolie spreading negativity and misinformation about this show while his braindead followers eat up his every word as fact. I had a difficult time trying to convince several people that most of the shit they've heard about this show is untrue and that they should watch it themselves to form their own thoughts instead of following someone else' opinion.

[@SupremeKingToshiro]

Are you talking about Woolie VS?

[@Zenotron]

@@SupremeKingToshiro Yup, the very same! Dude has been pushing the "ZZ Gundam is bad" narrative on his audience for years while making false claims like how it supposedly "ruined Haman's character". clips.twitch.tv/OilyCleanSkirretDerp

[@thegunslinger8806]

I think your half right about the tone problem with Zeta, Regular Zeta is understandably dark because of the subject matter, double Zeta however had no reason having the tittle of Zeta because the mistake here wouldn't be saved until they decided to split off from the main franchise and do alternate universes like Mobile suit fighter G Gundam, that's how you take a break from a story like gundam, You don't do a parody of it within its own universe and ask why the tone is messed up and why everything is out of character you simply pause, stand up, walk into the other room and take a laugh while the Lawrence of Arabia intermission screen plays on and hopefully have a pint or two with the boys.

[@Yoshiedude]

This is a good example of why I hate looking at things in a vacuum. It may be good standalone, even the best. But id argue ot brings down everything that came before and afterwards.

[@jamescousins9216]

There's an essential bit of pacing I think gets... overlooked, or not given the credit it deserves from how often its missed. You need to give the audience a break to breathe. Constantly driving the emotions and stakes up and up sounds like a fun idea, but in practice the viewer will become so upset they'll unplug. That's why you have the term "Comic *Relief*", it's a relief from the pressure of tension. The gag characters and cutaways exist to briefly and slightly bring the tension back down so the overall tension can keep increasing. Like a rest stop when climbing a mountain. But even this analogy is very abstract. The execution needs to suit the story elements, but characters, themes, pacing, and narrative are not cookie-cutter pieces you can make into a reliable formula. That's what makes writing and filmmaking a place where mastery of art so distinct from cheap or sloppy work. Mobile Suit Gundam had its comic relief in characters like Kai and the kids, but you never really had much of that in Z or back-half ZZ. The few jokes that did exist were pretty mean-spirited and aimed at a central character's expense, like the wierd joke about Kamile being 'feminine' or Marshmallow Dude's over the top chivalry being mocked after his self-sacrifice. When you look at the Gundam shows in chronological release order, you can see how different teams tweak the levels of tension and comedy to hit the level they want while still keeping the audience. As an example, I think it's why Origin really plays up Dozle's ogre-archetype traits as a diegetic gag. You can briefly dial the emotions down from watching a bunch of people die screaming against long odds if you have the guy watching it rip up a metal guard rail with his bare hands while he cartoonishly bawls about the heroic sacrifices of his subordinates.