The Hall-Mills Mystery

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On September 14th, 1922 a crime would occur that would become one of the most talked about cases that would span nearly 100 years. And in that time, although suspects, motives and theories have been put forward the case continues to remain unsolved.
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Sources:
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[@mikehawk4388]

2020s: "True crime enthusiasts are so disrespectful. That darn internet has turned us all into psychopaths." 1920s: "Quick, finish digging up the corpse dirt & dismembering the tree so we can sell it to the hundreds of disappointed onlookers who missed ogling the scandalous bodies! What a cool souvenir! Is it my turn to read the business card evidence yet?"

[@Cadaber]

I probably shouldn’t have chuckled at “corpse dirt” but I did. But you’re right, its somewhat as if they were treated as an actual event. Yet I am not too surprised. We are a society that at one point held public executions for “entertainment”

[@justinkennedy3004]

Por que no los dos?

[@mentalhaze4226]

@@Cadaber not only that my friend but this was a time before tv and radios weren't household items yet. They were around but not common in every house I don't think. So this was an "event" Edit: Radios were around

[@caseyd9471]

When people gathered at Gettysburg in 1863 for Lincoln's address, many of them walked the battleground collecting souvenirs that dead and wounded soldiers had left behind. And there are many more examples going further back than that--people have always been a little shitty when it comes to the macabre.

[@-tera-3345]

@@caseyd9471 I remember stories of crowds of people showing up to directly watch early battles in the Revolutionary War for entertainment. War was supposed to follow a certain, very formal "etiquette", so people felt safe doing so. They even made a picnic of it, like it was some sort of party. Of course, the battles quickly turned dirty, so many of those onlookers ended up getting caught up in the battle.

[@morgjones13]

How is "oh he's a pushover" such a valid reason for everyone seemingly ignoring the husband?

[@Cadaber]

My thoughts exactly, just because someone appears one way, doesn’t mean they are not capable of something that is against their character.

[@morgjones13]

@@Cadaber it's a testament to how trusting the police used to be in the past. Usually they knew everyone and I expect people frequently committed crimes and got away with it, based on nothing more than the police knowing them and discounting them from the investigation based on their perception of that person's personality.

[@lestersmith7]

Makes him that much more of a suspect to me. Wanted to show himself and everyone else he was far from a pushover murdering his wife and her lover as revenge for their affair… Especially with the majority of violence being inflicted on his wife and the many love letters surrounding the romantically displayed bodies.

[@FVCK-]

Same as “simple minded” branded people on the spectrum as cold blooded killers back then. Imagine how many people rotted their lives away in jails before we had DNA tests that could prove innocence? crazy stuff.

[@manuxx3543]

Also did they ever investigate how did the love letter got there and which one were found ? Finger prints from where they were stored at the house could have been easier to find, and if there's just the correspondance from the girl pov well husband found the letter

[@ilseweldring2016]

For me the fact that her tongue was cut out gave the message that Elenor had lied to someone. Removing it would ensure she would never lie again. Something most likely her husband would do.

[@patriciajrs46]

Could be.

[@howdareyouexist]

prove it

[@ACare15]

Actually, Eleanor was a choir singer with a reputation for a beautiful voice. It was thought that the cutting out of her tongue was a vengeful act.

[@WobblesandBean]

Yeah, that's a very strange detail. That alone makes me think this was personal. A serial killer wanting to take a memento likely would have picked a decidedly easier to obtain trophy. Whoever did this, REALLY hated this woman

[@morgjones13]

I don't get why nobody investigated her husband, simply based on "he's a pushover"

[@SakuraAsranArt]

This crime was committed by one person, not a group. One person who took out Hall like he was an afterthought but reserved all their rage and hate for Eleanor. The affair may have been an open secret for the town but the spouse being cheated on is often the last to know. I think this meek "pushover" was either completely ignorant of the affair or in denial about it. But on that day he found out the truth and snapped. He quickly murdered Hall first so he could focus on the true object of his rage, his wife. The fact that he was dismissed as a suspect so quickly is possibly one of the worst policing decisions in criminal history.

[@SkoomaCat]

The murderer removing her tongue like she's a liar. It was her husband.

[@Cadaber]

I feel the same way, out of all of the things and theories I came across with this case. He was a very popular suspect. The rage that was clearly seen was from somebody who knew her.

[@SkoomaCat]

@@Cadaber absolutely. And he got away with it.

[@EspeonMistress00]

@@SkoomaCat It could most probably symbolize the fact that she was a choir singer. Like her voice and singing is what enchanted the priest and the husband punished her for it.

[@SkoomaCat]

@@EspeonMistress00 yeah could be. But with so much hate displayed towards her I doubt it. That thinking implies the priest is her victim and some what innocent. Why kill him too.

[@wanderinghistorian]

"He wouldn't hurt a fly," is a claim proven to be false on many occasions. They really should've looked into the husband.

[@mentalhaze4226]

Especially since the female victim, "his wife", received the more brutal injuries and excess of said injuries compared to the male. Screams jealous husband who lashed out in rage to me.

[@solomonoftm]

Bingo. The placement, torn up letters, her specific abuse, definitely was the husband. Maybe he was a pushover. He just got pushed too far, it seems

[@FVCK-]

And the flies in the area that day. They may have been too scared to buzz forward at the risk of getting clipped if he found out.

[@jellydamgood]

Fly, not human.

[@jacobmasdoni6410]

Thank god your comment was the first thing I saw before I watched the video fucking incredible fml ruined it all and this mf barley posts FUCK

[@memesimp3216]

Wow, Ok this one was hard to sit through. The moment cadaber was talking about the crowd at 6:53 was the part I started to to roll my eyes. The utter disrespect for the crime scene and the police investigation going on was insane, even the poor tree wasn’t safe.

[@nicoleb7106]

Yeah that pissed me off. There was truly so little to do back then and so much far less understanding of forensics. You got to hate the idea of becoming a victim of a crime not just at all but especially early enough that the general public didn't get or care about the forensics at the time. What a different world it was.

[@akittylover2784]

@@nicoleb7106 Definitely! Just imagine that you've just been killed and are floating and have to watch everything that happens to you, from people disrespecting your final resting place, to someone lying about your killer, to your killer getting away scott free, with everything ending with the news who focused so heavily on your story to the point of hiring people to lie at your trial quickly losing interest in the case and switching to another topic as if your death was 'just another story.' Would be terrifying.

[@kevindube7096]

....... it was 100 years ago.

[@coletrain546]

@@kevindube7096 oh okay so that means its okay

[@wisdomleader85]

@@coletrain546 Acknowledging the time-being doesn't necessarily mean it's okay, with the point being the society has progressed since then.

[@lizc6393]

People in the 1920's: we respect other peoples private lives and boundaries. Also people in the 1920's: We're totes going to pilfer this gruesome crime scene.

[@wolfetteplays8894]

The crime took place in public

[@parptot]

The fact that almost 100 people touched the card and ruined the case knowing full well that they were handling precious evidence makes me mad.

[@Cadaber]

I was shocked when I found that out.

[@QuietM4n]

Latent prints weren’t a thing until the 1930’s no one could’ve touched that card and it wouldn’t have made a difference at the time.

[@QuietM4n]

Obviously the police should’ve gotten control of the scene regardless but it’s like dragging them for not taking DNA evidence. To them that cards only use was for identification

[@CharlesFreck]

​@@QuietM4n Entirely and blatantly false. The first time a fingerprint was used as evidence was in 1910. Don't even know why you'd lie about this. Fingerprints had been accepted as reliable evidence in the US since 1911. I assume it's because Wikipedia is horribly written and a terrible source of information but you used it anyway. Latent prints were identified and found on cloth in the 1930s, but people weren't washing their hands completely all day in the 1920s. You didn't need to rely on latent prints. People left visible prints. Especially after they'd been dragging bodies around and firing guns. Additionally, latent prints really only refers to completely invisible, subtle fingerprints. They've been able to lift oil/powder marked fingerprints from surfaces like paper since the late 1800s. They'd had the technology, skills and ability to fingerprint that card for 40 years. Maybe bother to actually learn what latent prints entails and the difference in fingerprinting techniques before you claim they couldn't have used the card to identify the killer. It's literally in this video that they tried to use the card to identify the killer in court. Clearly they had the fucking ability to lift fingerprints from it. You literally have no clue what you're talking about. A lie from ignorance still makes you a liar.

[@keilanl1784]

@@CharlesFreck You're both wrong. The Scheffer Case of 1902 was the first American legal case using fingerprint evidence to convict a murderer. The information is actually cited in Wilbur R. Miller's "The Social History of Crime and Punishment in America: An Encyclopedia" published in 2012. You know where I found that info? Wikipedia. There are also multiple articles online that corroborate this event. Maybe think next time before shitting on wikipedia because your old high school teacher who grew up on dial-up told you not to use it so you wouldn't be lazy on your citations.

[@darthtitteous1215]

I went to college for a degree I don’t even use (criminology) and and something I learned is exactly what you said about Eleanor’s husband. There are multiple cases of women with genitals, and body parts missing and the offender is almost always a lover.

[@maddieb.4282]

What about serial killers that have taken body parts of women as trophies? Would you describe them as a lovers’ relationship?

[@songbird6414]

@@maddieb.4282 does “almost always” mean anything to you. “Almost” specifically

[@breno855]

hate to see talent wasted

[@gracequach6769]

How does one remove a *woman's* genitals? I get doing it to men - Just lop it off and done, but *women*?

[@lanadelsultana]

Honestly I truly believe it was the husband, especially with the extent of the violence towards the wife compared to the pastor. Somebody felt more upset at her specifically.

[@lanadelsultana]

OH OK i was right before the bit theorizing this, didn't realise it was mentioned jhdsjhhdsj.

[@johnwanke3863]

Thank you so, so much for respectfully dealing with Willie Steven’s suspected autism. I needed to pause before I got to the end to express my respect and gratitude. You showed that his disability impacted public impression of him in a way that had the potential to divert the course of justice without detracting compassion for the murder victims. As a mystery lover who often finds their diagnosis trotted out as a possible explanation for a criminal’s behaviors, I am truly moved to see you’ve taken time to conscientiously address how disabled people have been historically abused by the criminal justice system. Again, thank you. (Gosh I am going to be embarrassed if you say something awful later in the video lol)

[@Cadaber]

I feel I worded one thing wrong, and that was saying he “suffered” with it. I feel I could have worded it better but I meant no offense saying it that way.

[@FVCK-]

@@Cadaber I didn’t think it was offensive to say suffered because I can imagine people did suffer back then due to the lack of knowledge people had regarding any mental disorders; And how they mistreated people living with them. whether mental or developmental, they branded them all as “simple minded” and tried to hide them from society. I can’t speak for this fella, but I can imagine if I were in his shoes in the 20’s I’d probably be suffering from being mistreated due to my disorder.

[@bartonfile6569]

Surely hope you aren’t saying babies should be aborted because they will have disabilities these days, but I am sure you are. People who act the most compassionate are often not.

[@LordMarcus]

@@bartonfile6569 what

[@haydenanderson2121]

@@bartonfile6569 huh?

[@ACare15]

The Hall-Mills case has fascinated me since I was a boy. My mother came home with a copy of William Kunstler's book, The Hall-Mills Murder Case, and I was frankly shocked at the graphic photos - for that time. And then it seemed I never heard of the case again. Kunstler came out with an updated version of his book and I purchased it, but he sticks to his guns about who he believes the murderers were but I don't agree with him. That they might have been mistaken for a mixed race couple, yes, but how does that account for the torn love letters? The minister and the choir singer weren't keeping those letters in their pockets and I can't imagine the wronged spouses being clever enough to pass them along. In the end, I remain fascinated by the mystery with a question I once read as a coda to their story: Who did kill the minster and choir singer if it wasn't a family affair? Thanks for posting this wonderful, very well-done video.

[@pickles3128]

Exactly what I was thinking. I have letters I cherish from past friends and relatives, and I keep them in a shoebox at home. It would've _had_ to've been one of the spouses or another family member who had access to their study, bedroom, or office. I'd like to know if Mills or Hall had written the letters, then we'd know who'd had them, if you know what I mean. I know people say it sounds like the husband because of the overkill, but it could be that Frances blamed the woman as a home-wrecker. It's easier to hate and blame someone you're not in love with, even if they owe you nothing, and it's the husband breaking his wedding vows.

[@GabrielDeLiberatti]

If you are talking about the KKK, they could have just forged the letters.

[@Cadaber]

From what I found online, the letters that were torn up were from both Edward and Eleanor. I feel the amount of violence that Eleanor suffered was due to somebody knowing who she was. I think the investigation though was doomed from the start. It’s something I notice with all of these old cases from decades ago. Crime scenes were mishandled so badly that it is a good chance they will never be solved.

[@d.h.4778]

Did they fingerprint the letter pieces?

[@sonofhibbs4425]

@@d.h.4778 How could they when hundreds of people put their own fingers all over it. 🙁

[@tiredloco]

today is a day im having trouble getting out my bed, i definitely needed this right now. thank you for always putting out the best content !

[@Boodoo4You]

Same here. Expect its everyday because I have depression. Lol

[@Dibbz_TV]

Same here! Barely left the bed today

[@xntumrfo9ivrnwf]

But it’s almost midnight - I’m about to go to bed! :p hope your day goes better!

[@xntumrfo9ivrnwf]

@@Boodoo4You all the best man - things will get better!

[@batmanjpeg]

Let's hope tmrs better for all of us :))

[@Inshy12]

Something that just occurred to me as I was listening to your video. Was it ever made public who had penned the love letters? Like, were they clearly written by both of the victims in a correspondence or were they all from only one of them. Because, really, if all the letters found were written by Hall, for instance, then they would have been in Mills possession, and would have only been discovered by someone with access to Mill and her belongings. If the love letters were written by Mills, then Hall would have had them, and someone like his wife could have easily found them and leave them at the crime scene.

[@bradandmawm3630]

That's actually a really good point that wouldn't have occurred to me. Now I'm curious!

[@silasfrisenette9226]

True - if from both of them, how did they have access to both of their letters?

[@sonofhibbs4425]

@@silasfrisenette9226 I heard they were intercepted by people helping out the spouse. I could be wrong. It’s obvious though one of the spouses had to be involved if not both since at least one of the love letters was there. And if from both……how else would they have love letters from both! I really think everyone knew who did it and even the killers knew the public would know who did it..I mean even the lead detective said the day the bodies were discovered it wouldn’t take more than a day to solve it. It was just how much power the wealthy had to do such a thing. A maid of Mrs. Hall had later said to her fiancé that she was paid to stay hushed up…it doesn’t take rocket science either to understand why pig woman’s mother was screaming like a mad woman at the trial that her daughter is a liar. Her daughter was the only witness that came forward. Who would want to come forward and testify against a brutal murderer when the whole town knows the accused are quite capable of killing you too! The mother probably wanted her daughter to just stay quiet and not endanger the family by speaking up. I don’t think there is much mystery as to who the culprit of these murders are, but just exactly who was involved, to what extent, and what occurred. Like you said, how did the murderer get the love letter(s), and why would they have made it a part of the scene if that wasn’t the reason why they were killed?

[@onbearfeet]

Nobody investigated Jimmy Mills because he was "a pushover"? There were about a million things in the 1920s that could get a man labeled "weak" or "a pushover", and most of them don't stop the man in question from committing domestic violence or garden-variety murder. It made sense to look into Frances Hall, but Jimmy Mills should have been just as much a suspect unless he was in Chicago at the time or something. The love letters seem indicative to me--and the people most likely to have access to them would be those who shared quarters with the victims. That sounds more like Jimmy, working as a church sexton (according to the headlines) and living somewhere small, than it sounds like a wealthy heiress living in a larger, fancier house.

[@daveatkins3568]

Cheating and playing stupid games won them the ultimate stupid prize

[@silenttoxic707]

Always a good time when you see Cadaber uploaded a new video

[@anonismust]

Frist 1st

[@austin9711]

Cadaber, MrBallen and LEMMiNO probably the best story tellers on KZbin!

[@hanselmansell7555]

Plus Barely Sociable 👍

[@luccubsol]

If you like those watch barely sociable and Nexpo:)

[@BrandonDKirkwood]

Add Disturban to the list

[@skuzzernaut]

ThatChapter aswell!!!

[@groc4513]

Add Nexpo!

[@isirlasplace91]

I’m wondering if there’s ever been any dna testing done on the victims. Also, my first instinct is the husband did it. Why else would the perp cut out Eleanor’s tongue? She was a cheating wife, a “lying” wife who’s words could not be trusted. If it wasn’t the husband, then I think it’s someone who had a beef with cheating women. Any other crimes like this one in that area?

[@Vlad-sj5yw]

I doubt they even have the items or clothes from that long ago to lift any DNA from. Just getting reliable DNA from the victims and suspects might prove difficult for such an old case. But yea unless there was an alibi for the husband I'd bet a good amount of money on he did it.

[@isirlasplace91]

@@Vlad-sj5yw True, they most likely don’t have the evidence anymore and if they did, DNA might be too degraded to offer results. And even if by some miracle they were able to get any DNA results, they’d be hella contaminated anyway because of all the gawkers.

[@MiguelGarcia-vj7oo]

@@isirlasplace91 genetic material can last for millions of years to a few weeks under the best and worst conditions.... I think there is a chance to find DNA.

[@isirlasplace91]

@@MiguelGarcia-vj7oo That’s really good news. Hopefully this will be one of those cases we’ll be able to solve. Thanks for the info!!

[@Vlad-sj5yw]

@@MiguelGarcia-vj7oo Yea but that also need uncontaminated evidence from back then (I have no idea how long they keep evidence on unsolved murders). But if that could happen, hopefully the victims and suspects weren't cremated as to get a valid DNA sample from them. I think the amount/quality needed in a case like this is different from in non-forensic fields.

[@whatsahandlehelppls]

Kind of annoying that in so many unsolved cases theres police negligance or messed up evidence

[@WobblesandBean]

Yuuuuuup.

[@MrJest2]

Much of what we take for granted in modern police and prosecutorial procedures is very recent. What we think of as "modern policing" didn't really start to take hold until the '70s... and the further back from there you go, the "worse" it gets from our current perspective. Most murders are stupidly easy to solve (successfully prosecuting them is another story), and so when one comes along that isn't, the whole thing pretty much grinds to a halt. Even today that happens, although investigative techniques and technology is certainly more effective today than in the 1920s.

[@ar4203]

@@MrJest2 I mean, I don't think it would be good the other way either- "solving" more cases would not be better if it is done the way youre suggesting with just pretty much assuming, without the evidence needed to succeed in court, that it's extremly easy & obvious who is guilty; like, most reasonable people understand that the ethical correct premise of our sysyem is supposed to be that its better a guilty person go free than innocent person convicted of a come they didnt commit. The evidence should be beyond any doubt & if the evidence is not there than I'm sorry but assumptions & speculation have zero place in a civilized country in taking away people's lives& freedoms. The amount of wrongful convictions SHOW how problematic these kind of "assumptions" are...& the reality is that, while yes it is good whenever possible both to get justice for victims & to protect society from violent criminals, the fact remains that those should never come at the expense of innocent victims of the system itself, I highly reject this kind of approach or attitude about placing the value of solving crimes above the value of having an over abundance of cautiousness& evidence & certainty in regards to accusing & charging people of a crime, I think that's just a very dangerous & callous attitude that doesn't seem to consider the significant harms & trauma caused to thousands of people by these kind of rushes to judgement

[@dirckthedork-knight1201]

You said it

[@realtacobell]

People, especially back then were just straight-up stupid. There's no reason, at any point in history to touch a crime scene unless you have room-temperature IQ.

[@DodgerJim]

The hatred toward the woman is telling. I'm wondering if the man, the Priest, wasn't having another affair on the side with another woman from the church. If he's doing one member, why not another? Maybe its this other woman who found out about this first affair, got enraged with jealously, and lost her friggin mend. Just an hypothesis. Something to chew on. Great Video!!

[@creamsoda5492]

11pm UK time. Tired. About to go to bed. *Receives Cadaber notification*. “Suppose I can stay up another half hour...”

[@mozzerianmisanthrope406]

Omg, didn't realise that was the time, lol. Thanks for inadvertently reminding me!

[@gizmod22]

I don't empathize with the victims. They seemed like jerks.

[@wettoast8141]

Cadaber time

[@BlizzAz]

So, here's what I wonder. Who's letters were there torn up at the scene? His? Hers? Both? If theye were out for a rendezvous, I find it unlikely they'd be carrying around a bunch of letters. Likely it was one, or possibly both spouses.

[@akshaydalvi1534]

Probably the killer brought the letters??

[@BlizzAz]

@@akshaydalvi1534 Exactly. Which means they likely had access to their home/homes.

[@dirckthedork-knight1201]

@@akshaydalvi1534 Thats what i think too The Killer did the job and then throw the letters on them to basically point the finger and say " these two were cheaters"

[@heyafrica6925]

If those letters were made by Hall and sent to her home then I'm guessing her husband found them and probably killed them both

[@BlizzAz]

@@heyafrica6925 Yes, but one of the letters apparently was from her to him; which would more likely have been found by his wife.

[@MrYelly]

"Heeey a crime scene of two people Ive known my entire life, perfect place for a 100 person barbeque" The police having the bravado to state they will solve this within 2 days, and the only "eye witness" being a habitual liar, it is more than clear to me that the victim's husband was by fact, not the only pushover in town. Can't even say I'm interested in discovering who committed the murders, none of these clowns deserve redemption.

[@panqueque445]

I'm surprised no one mentioned that both Frances and Eleanor's husband might've been involved. There is no evidence, obviously, but if their affair was so publicly known, then both of them were aware of it. I wouldn't be surprised if Frances and Eleanor's husband planned the whole thing and Eleanor "arranged" for him never to be investigated as a suspect. Maybe the police letting people trample all over the crime scene was on purpose. She planned the whole thing and he committed the murder, police got bribed to let people ruin the crime scene so he couldn't be singled out.

[@astroshiv4050]

Even i thought, the ruthless trampling of the crime scene was planned..... How else could you expect hundred of people.....mind it was almost a century ago....reached the place in such a short time....

[@Sanakudou]

@@astroshiv4050 it was really odd for so many people to knowingly destroy a crime scene and have such disrespect to the dead. People then trying to SELL some of the evidence on the spot like that… it does lead to some suspicious that there was a coordinated effort to ruin the crime scene.

[@astroshiv4050]

@@Sanakudou yes! True....

[@no_peace]

Yeah i thought it sounded like two people were involved/present but I thought it was a hit. Those two being there makes a lot of sense

[@CharlesFreck]

​@@Sanakudou I recommend you go read about murder cases from the time. This wasn't a one time thing. Every murder had this happen. Police had exactly as long as they could maintain a large enough presence to physically keep the growing crowds out before the crime scene would be completely ruined. There was no maintaining the crime scene for days. You had a few hours at best before everything was getting trampled and searched through and touched. Death was omnipresent back then, everyone had seen dead people before. It wasn't something that was treated as reverently as it is now. A murder was simply something exciting. Break up the monotony of dying from cholera. I've never seen a dead person in real life, but in the 1920s it'd be outright shocking if you hadn't seen at least one dead person by the time you'd finished childhood. Completely different times.

[@TheMuddyMilesTrain]

i just wanted to let you know that I've been binge watching your material and I absolutely love this channel all around. Even though many of these stories are ones I've heard already, there's just a way you present it that's so much more enjoyable. The style, cadence in your voice, subject matter, etc is right up my alley. I'm going through a really difficult time right now and am writing this randomly at night and just wanted to thank you. Thank you.

[@wardrobewings8000]

I love how in span of 10 minutes you say that "back then it was more common to stay out of someone's business" and described the absolute insanity of people *digging up ground around crime scene to take as souvenirs*. It's not just that back then people behaved differently. Nobody confronted the lovers or told supposes because the man in this affair was *religious leader*. I'm 100% sure if it anybody else's affair people wouldn't stay out of their business, especially since this was relatively small community.

[@mozzerianmisanthrope406]

Nothing better than a Saturday watching true crime videos and reading myriad true crime magazines. Love the genre. 💜✌️

[@jamesknapp64]

While the Husband was the likely culprit, I think there is another viable suspect not mentioned. It could be another member of the Church who felt betraid by their Priest and friend. Perhaps Eleanor had lied to them about the affair and they also had affection for her. They followed Eleanor that night and in a fit of rage killed both. Personally on the Crab-Apple tree that was probably just a routine meeting location for the pair, it may of had no significance for the killer but an Episcopal Priest may have chosen it for context mentioned as the place to signify their "love". Either way the husband is definitely the prime suspect in my eyes, and Francis is #2, I don't think we can rule out another member of the Parish.

[@dankhank6013]

The part about the crowd was infuriating, And the selling of dirt.. Anything to make a dollar..

[@mnbalfour1985]

20:19 The phrase "prime and only suspect" should never be said in social commentary about criminal trials because it is highly prejudicial, it can scupper the criminal trial proceedings, and it can result in defamation suits. A former Western Australian barrister and Crown prosecutor by the name of Lloyd Patrick Rayney was tried and acquitted in 2012 of the 2007 murder or manslaughter of his wife Corryn Rayney. In 2017, Lloyd Rayney succeeded in a defamation action against the State of Western Australia (WA) over police behaviour and was awarded a record sum of $A2.63 million. The crux of the defamation action was the fact that Rayney was publicly referred to by police as "the prime and only suspect", a very stupid mistake on the part of the police. Judge John Chaney ruled that the police officer's words "in their entirety, bore the imputation that the plaintiff murdered his wife" and awarded preliminary damages of $600,000 "for the harm to his reputation, personal hurt and distress caused." On 20 December, the judge awarded additional sums for economic losses and interest, bringing the total award to $2,623,416 - "almost four times as large as the previous biggest defamation award in WA." The judgment was highly critical of the police, finding that senior officers involved in the investigation into Ms Rayney's murder "had formed a prejudicial view" of Mr Rayney and had "taken the approach of assessing [his] actions and words against an assumption of guilt". Things did not end well for Lloyd Rayney though. In a long-running action, the WA Legal Professional Complaints Committee and the State Administrative Tribunal had Rayney's lawyer's practising certificate cancelled for "professional misconduct" and "knowingly giving false evidence". Rayney appealed findings of professional misconduct by the Western Australian Administrative Appeals Tribunal. In April 2020, that appeal was dismissed by the full bench of the WA Supreme Court and he was struck off the West Australian roll of practitioners for "professional misconduct" and "knowingly giving false evidence".

[@Skittenmeow]

Fellow West Aussie?

[@mnbalfour1985]

@@Skittenmeow A chemical scientist from Queensland who can't get a job in chemistry in Queensland but can get a job in chemistry in Western Australia.

[@mollysministuff]

I started watching your channel when you only had a few videos, but I took a little break from watching your videos not too long ago. Coming back, I'm impressed at the increase in quality. Keep up the good work! :)

[@benmcreynolds8581]

I really really really hope to see you and your channel break further and further into covering true crime situations that are just very worth covering. Your content quality is just unmatched dude, I get so hooked and immersed in your videos and I always get so excited for a new video that comes out. 👍🤘👍 Keep up the amazing work dude. Your narration and writing structure delivery is just amazing.

[@minioncat5222]

i’m honestly so confused as to how u only have 180k. don’t get me wrong that’s a LOT of people, but your videos are so high quality and well made that i would’ve thought you had so many more subs!! i can tell you’re making your big break soon, i’m really proud of you and super excited for you :)

[@Emiliapocalypse]

It must be the algorithm taking its time to recommend this to people I watch a lot of true crime, and this video is the first time I’ve seen this channel.

[@BLITZKRIEG1]

because most of these 'documentaries' are somewhat clickbaity and some aspects are taken out of context or greatly exaggerated.

[@Skittenmeow]

I think this is the first time I've had this channel in my feed, but a few minutes in and I'm hooked. So the algorithm has done something right... though considering how many absolute junk videos I've been recommended lately maybe it's just luck?

[@billblaski9523]

I always learn about cases that I've never heard of on this channel. Excellent

[@ZippophileStudios]

Been watching since you had 24k it’s been nice to watch your channel grow keep up the good work

[@dylvasey]

The tongue being cut out would seem to be the biggest pointer here. The torn up letters coupled with this points either to the husband or at least a male admirer.

[@onioncoffee]

once again another case of police negligence and severe mishandling of evidence. sad that some things never change.

[@justinkennedy3004]

True, but if policing isn't trustworthy you're gonna like the alternatives even less. Tbc I support the alternatives.

[@xlnuniex]

I’m born and raised in NJ, and never heard of this. Plus, I’m a true crime buff, if you will. Thank you for posting! ❤

[@bench.warmer625tm9]

Please never stop I look forward to every post cadaber :)

[@wolfetteplays8894]

Finally a new upload from you! Love your vids so much!! ❤️

[@TwilightPrincessFR]

Thank you for blessing us w another video, Cadaber 🥰

[@steffany-raelynch4030]

quality. high quality. the highest. your voice is so soothing. your delivery, word choice, the research .. superb. superb.

[@the_key_x]

Just found your channel and you have one of the most amazing voices I’ve ever heard. Looking forward to watching.

[@toobeast5485]

As usual the king as returned! A video on Kenny Veach would be amazing, that is a case you can definitely crack open!

[@Paxiangaming]

My heart dropped at the beginning because I'm listening to this at work in Somerset.

[@heidetermeg427]

Keep at it, Cadaber. I like my Nexpo, but there's no one quite like you, out there. Quality stuff, always!

[@wafflemypancakesuponthesun875]

Such a savage reaction by the initial crowd at the scene. Great video, perfect ambience and as always like and comment for the algorithm, Keep it up Cadaber!!

[@mikeyfrederick1232]

Just gotta say you deserve a lot of credit for your material sir..always interesting and insightful..really great content

[@kayla2154]

the people flooding the scene reminds me of the villisca (sorry if i spelled it wrong) axe murders. the whole family died and word got around and people went into their house like it was a museum. so frustrating

[@beniterutaganira1871]

Thanks for your videos! You always manage to find the most interesting topics and (in the best way possible 😅), I can always relisten to help myself sleep cuz your voice is really calming 🤗🤗

[@PouresMaggie]

Imo, I don't think the positioning of the bodies was a sign of remorse, if anything it was a sign to show who they were to the passerby people and the police that would eventually discover them. The man, a pastor, having his face hidden away with a hat, perhaps to hide the bullet wound sure, but also a sign of god not being able to see his face/accept/recognise him into heaven. The woman had her hand lying on the man's thigh. Highly inappropriate for a woman of that time, too forward of a move to make, perhaps her positioning was to show she was too forward/an adulteress, that, combined with having both her throat slit and tongue cut, both used to sweet-talk a man of god and a married man into an eventual affair with her. To me, it looks like jealousy towards the woman and the fact she was mainly accused for the whole affair. But yes, we will never know.

[@mountainvenom]

Fascinating video. So pleased to have found your channel ❤️

[@klo5126]

True crime mysteries are my go to videos before going to sleep. Great video cover.

[@QQr00z]

i liked first, and now i watch :)

[@7aristos7]

by the end of these videos i forget that these are unsolved and i always find myself thinking “wow i can’t wait to hear who *actually* did it”

[@frankmarano1118]

One question about the final theory. Would a scorned lover really pose them together & want to symbolize their being together? Even if they felt guilt, its hard to imagine theyd take that extra step. Like I feel like they may pose the wife in front of the tree but not care about the pastor, who was the cause of all their scorn. (The wife even more so but you know what I mean) Like going from tearing up the love letters to posing them in front of the tree together seems like a massive disconnect but hey I guess you never know

[@pretelquetzal]

I feel like the posing of them together could be a punishment in death to be caught in an act of infidelity and exposed to the public (even tho it was already publicly know)

[@sonofhibbs4425]

I heard both spouses from each marriage weren’t really ‘in love’’, in fact Mr. Mills was said to be cold to Eleanor and vise versa. I don’t think there was much ‘love’ between Mrs. Hall and Mr. Hall either. He was 7 years younger than her. He was 41 at the time of death, so she was around 48. I think the posing them together was a mocking of them. A public display to humiliate them-a sort of, ‘’this is what you get for being adulterers” type think, or ‘’this is what comes of adulterers”. Supposedly the affair wasn’t some well-hidden secret and both were rather open about it. I think the spouses felt humiliated and this was a retaliation of that. It wasn’t so much jealous rage but irritation and humiliation.

[@isabellaangeline2175]

This was definitely a crime of passion. It had to have been one of the spouses. And those townsfolk were absolutely classless and depraved.

[@LB-py9ig]

A surprise, but a welcome one. Love your videos Cadaber

[@watchdog304]

Great work as always!

[@diegoochoa572]

Every Cadaber video: " *iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiif* you enjoy..."

[@EmceeMayo]

Fun fact: William Hearst is one of the two people who led to Marijuana being made illegal in the US for so long! Guess why? Once again, dollar signs! Smh

[@wolfetteplays8894]

Don’t weep for weed, weep for opium. The opium Club is way bigger even to this day.

[@Emiliapocalypse]

@@wolfetteplays8894 Who weeps for the country’s first opiate crisis?

[@Sanakudou]

@@Emiliapocalypse probably not the reply you were looking for, but those of us who rely on opioids for quality of life w/ chronic pain certainly suffer from the opioid crisis now making doctors scared to prescribe it at all (compared to just prescribing it appropriately) the opioid crisis has victims on both sides unfortunately. Mind you, there’s a BIG difference between opioids. Morphine/fentanyl should be reserved for short term intensive care, while opioids like Buprenorphine are effective and safe for lifelong chronic pain. A big part of the opioid crisis is doctors going straight to the strongest, not-safe-for-longterm-use opioids first. I do legitimately wonder if there’s some weird big pharma financial incentive behind this as it’s just so illogical for people trained in medicine to keep giving the most dangerous opioid to people when safer, low-to-no-side-effects opioids exist that should be used first. Definitely odd that this isn’t the biggest part of the opioid crisis being talked about.

[@QT5656]

Watch Dopesick and read the book it's based on. Purdue and other private pharmaceutical companies actively lied to doctors about how addictive their opiates were.

[@lynnloww]

*1)* Also, the fact Frances said, “they’re probably dead and that’s why they haven’t been back yet” to Eleanor’s husband when searching for the two… when it hadn’t even been 12 hours since being last heard!!! *2)* Let’s not forget: the witness even said she saw two women, and two men argue before finally hearing one of the women scream the name Henry. Now if it was Eleanor’s husband why on earth would he bring a woman to help him??? I can def see Frances getting the aide of a man to help her do the deed.. oh and what do you know?? *She has a brother named Henry as well.*

[@Youser999]

Wait, wait. So at the end of this video, we're condoning their infidelity?? Ok, wow....

[@andrewosborne3213]

Yeaaaah been waiting for a new one!

[@Boodoo4You]

Selling souvenir dirt from a murder scene is the most Capitalist thing that I’ve ever heard. “Git your dirt! Git your dirt! This one even has blood on it!”

[@nikkiwooden7876]

I love that you even spelled it in Larry the cable guy 😹😹😹

[@callmequ]

love the contenttt!!

[@sirawesomenessi1796]

Thank you for saying “if you’re a renegade detective type” instead of “if you have no friends”. I’m going to start calling myself a renegade detective type 😂

[@DuckiesDad08]

"More and more louder" is the only thing that stuck with me from this great video.

[@balder5298]

If the public was so concerned about the case getting solved maybe they shouldn't go and fuck up the crime scene.

[@JamieBainbridge]

1922 "Crime of the Century". Exxon in 1973 "Hold my beer".

[@blackkkabllakkcaa]

What do u mean?

[@anitaevans5361]

Exxon Valdez 1989

[@giannanana9812]

ANOTHER VIDEO! thank you

[@MsKatherine81]

People: taking crime scene by storm, destroying evidence. Also people: WhY iSn'T tHe CaSe SoLvEd YeT???

[@one-re2ub]

The problem with old cold cases is that many details come from media, which is an awful source for getting the facts (particularly back then)

[@daveatkins3568]

Just got home with blo and BONUS new cadaber that’s a good Sunday

[@blackkkabllakkcaa]

Nice lemme get a liña

[@francelleduplessis5965]

Would love a Cadaber podcast

[@captainfish3579]

I think im falling in love with this channel

[@MrJest2]

My very first thought after the description of the wounds and positioning of the bodies was that it was her husband. That he was dismissed out of hand due to rumors and reputation - and the potential of juicer fish to fry - speaks to the times and attitudes of the era.

[@hopejanette]

These people destroyed the crime scene and then had the nerve to get mad that it wasn't solved in a timely manner 🤦🏼‍♀️🤦🏼‍♀️😂😂

[@Kallls]

I am going to eat cereal and drink coffee to this video, thank you

[@SageK253]

Wouldn't be surprised if both spouses were involved. She found out, decided to let him know, he flew into a rage, and there's no evidence to implicate her.

[@jacksmedullaoblongata7659]

People don't walk around carrying love letters. Who were they addressed to, him or her or both? If not mailed, then they would be also probably hidden in the lover's homes somewhere. The killer likely brought them to the scene as "proof" of their sins. And then tore them up and scattered them. This means that either the husband or wife of the victims were likely the killer.

[@-JA-]

Thank you.

[@Cqntemplate]

Every time I see Cadaber upload I drop everything and watch (I don't do anything anyways :P)

[@seiyuokamihimura5082]

The mortician to the undertaker: so you like dead people huh? Undertaker: "well I cadabble"

[@Boodoo4You]

Nice search history Cadaber. We know you’re a KZbinr, but you’re still on a list though.

[@sourgreendolly7685]

List of underrated creators!

[@chistinelane]

How do I kiss bees without hurting them 🥺?

[@Furin1521]

At first I thought about some sort of pre-death "torture": a man forced to watch his lover getting sloughtered and killed, knowing that these would be his last moments alive...according to this theory, the killer should have been someone in full rage against the man and (maybe) not the woman. But yes, Eleanor's husband not being even noticed is so suspicious :( Great video! (English is not my first language)

[@marisashinal6263]

Crazy to hear about a Central NJ mystery. I feel like nothing happens here

[@aphrinth5433]

I'm in love with your thumbnails 🤩

[@qwerty3611]

This was a great video! Nice to hear of older cases. Interesting with the whole tabloid and public engagement in this case and them even maby coining "crime of the century". I think It could be her husband, otherwise maybe a man that thougt their behaviour sinful, found it provoking and he might also been secretly jealous of Hall for the relationship with Pearl.

[@genevieverust6963]

ooh this happened in my county/20 minutes from my hometown in NJ!! in our middle school ""gifted"" (i hate that word) program they took us on a fieldtrip to the courthouse and we got to hear a talk about the murder and trial proceedings. it was so interesting and definitely was a catalyst for my love of true crime as a little 11 y/o :) don't know if they still do it as I graduated ages ago but it's still a core memory for me

[@cachetelapa6923]

babe wake up new cadaber video just dropped

[@washingtonradio]

The nature of the wounds points toward Mills being the primary target not Hall as the injuries point towards anger against her. Now whether it's the wife or her relatives or the jilted husband or his family is not clear. Also, who did this had the letters so that limits who could have done it. Mills' family is usually not discussed in this case. 'Pig Lady' as she was called could provide a timeline of at least an accurate enough time of death. Accurate enough to at least try to verify alibis, etc.

[@nbcboy20]

I would also consider the possibility of a murder suicide. What if Elenor was planning to end the affair? Maybe Edward could not handle it and felt betrayed. This would explain why she has more injuries while Edward himself only has the one gunshot. It would also explain how they got to that location if the first place. This is a fact I was surprised wasn’t brought up. Whoever the killer was managed to convince them both to meet at this location or otherwise managed to catch them in the act (which would make the tree being there a coincidence). Edward could have beaten her then shot her. He could have positioned her body, scattered the love letters as an admission of his own sin, placed his card on the ground, and then shot himself with Elenor on his arm. When the bodies are first discovered police (or witnesses) decide to preserve the reputation of Edward as best they can and remove the firearm. They also would cover his face with his hat as a show of respect.

[@sonofhibbs4425]

I don’t think a gun was found near the bodies.

[@lofidigitalmonk]

Cadaber. Awesome. 💯.

[@P-P-Panda]

I’m excited for this

[@astikaarsitektur5916]

My empathy reduced a lot whenever hear they were cheating, no matter the victim or suspect