The Highs and Lows of Sonic 3 - Spoiler Discussion

[@bowserbreaker2515]

Keanu was surprisingly great here, but he never got to say, "Maria!".

[@chozochiefxiii3298]

If I'm being honest. On the first viewing. There's a lot in this movie that doesn't work for me despite overall enjoying the movie by the end. That we had a laser dance scene that is as long as shadows time with Maria on screen just....feels wrong. The master emerald being treated as a joke, the moon being treated as a joke, the fact that eggman got more development than shadow and sonic, and is on screen more than they are. I started rolling my eyes at the gags about halfway through. They really needed to cut these jokes out. Was the script even proofread? Jokes undermine so many important plot points. I need a second viewing to fully collect my thoughts. I will stand by my thoughts that eggman vs. gerald is beyond stupid, and it kills all the tension going on in the scene.

[@OrangeToadGamer]

One thing that's weird to me is how we don’t really see Gerald & Maria interact in this movie, he says he wants to avenge her but why? We never see them bond or even have a moment like Shadow and Maria do, I know in the games we obviously know why Gerald cares so much for Maria but in the Movie they don’t give us any reason why she's as important to him like they did with Shadow

[@javonscruggs8233]

I agree about Gearld not entirely landing. Gerald works better as a posthumous character, having him present during the story made him feel far less distinct as a character. Even when we see the threat of the Eclipse Cannon revealed, the threat does not carry the same weight as his message in the game showing his dying curse before his execution. The Super form fight was hype. The first fight with Shadow already gave a nice escalation from the previous movie showing how strong our characters were but this really kicked things up. At the same it also showed how Sonic really was letting his desire for a revenge get the better of him since he focused on Shadow rather than stopping the Eclipse Cannon. It looks like they decided to set up two different ideas for a sequel and didn’t know what they will do. We had the hint about the Black Arms, and we also had the Metal Sonics before Amy showed up. Hopefully both these ideas aren’t signs the movies are getting too ambitious. Overall though i do liked Sonic movie 3 and see it as a nice step up from the previous movies. I love the action,i love shadow,heck sonic was also great in this movie. I can say the year of Shadow was a success and looking forward to more stories in the future with this character. The year of Shadow truly reminded of this character and his potential for this series.

[@gammaboy4568]

I personally think Gerald being involved here was the most sensible approach for telling the story they wanted to tell in the runtime they had. Gerald in SA2 was more a plot device than a character, and his characterization in SxSG was too little too late. It would take more exposition to explain how the cannon came to be and how he is relevant to Shadow's own motives if he were dead. Besides that... Gerald in Sonic 3 still fills similar roles when viewed from the angle of the other characters: He's the one who sets Shadow's revenge in motion He's the one who tricked GUN into making an apocalyptic weapon He's the man Ivo looks up to All of these critical aspects are not only present, but somewhat expanded in his presentation in the film. Shadow isn't just given false memories, he is manipulated in real time to harness the hatred that was completely his own. I always found the "I forgor" part of his arc in SA2 a bit messy, because it also left the implication that he would have been fine with ending the world if it weren't for his promise. He goes through his own arc for his own reasons, and Gerald acts as a more active catalyst for his rage. His construction of the Eclipse Cannon makes for a more *poetic* form of justice in the film, I think. He did not necessarily need to live to fulfill this function, but I feel like mentioning this point because it is a significant departure from the game that also factors into his characterization. Gerald sees that GUN is emblematic of all the wrongs of humanity, and recognizes that they would go to any lengths to have a capable weapon and offers it to them. It is their own willingness to sow destruction that creates the ultimate weapon, and he offers it to them *after* they had already taken everything from hum. This seems to be a better fitting of its creation into Gerald's history, as opposed to him creating it out of obligation rather than spite. The last point is what I think is truly the most important part of this incarnation of Gerald, though. In SA2, Ivo's admiration of his grandfather is more understated. It's clearly present, but doesn't act as a reflection of his own character in the same way it is here. Jim Carrey playing both characters in much the same way, it gives Ivo more contrast when he finally does betray Gerald in the final act. Ivo's arc in the film is one of realizing that the world was not rejecting him, but rather he was rejecting the world. Gerald acts *exactly* how Ivo does, albeit driven to different goals. Gerald plays Ivo the same way Ivo played Knuckles and also Agent Stone, and being on the receiving end he realizes how he took the loyalty of Stone for granted-- that he had a place in the world, and someone who could have filled that hole that his lack of a family left. Gerald being dead also leaves some odd plot holes, ones which were pretty apparent in SA2: if he was taken by GUN after the incident and imprisoned along with Shadow, how did he manage to reconfigure the ARK's Eclipse Cannon and the biolizard into an unstoppable doomsday device? How did he alter Shadow's memories to make him forget about Maria's wish if he was imprisoned? A lot of SA2's details are simply more troubling to explain in a way that wouldn't place it all in exposition. Gerald being alive makes it easier to pace this information and present it logically, while also cutting out some of the aspects that were simply unnecessary or even counterintuitive to telling the story with effective characters. I think a lot of the issues people have with him here is not so much that he's alive, but that he's a comedic character. However, as a comedic character, it brings out the best performance from Jim Carrey and drives Ivo's character arc. While I can agree that, tonally, his presence is at odds with the impact SA2's ending had... I feel like there's more good than bad here, especially when acknowledging the film as a more loose adaptation with a lot more limitations.

[@OrangeToadGamer]

1:00:09 When Walter's died and gave Sonic the key for the Ark, I genuinely thought he was gonna give him an Olive Garden gift card 💀

[@K7TZ]

"The star is dead by the time the light comes to us" As someone who just finished watching gunbuster anime, lemme explain some nerd stuff. All the stars and other things you see through a telescope happened like a million years ago because light doesn't travel in an instant so it takes time for light to reach your eyes depending on how far the distance. With that said, all the stars you see at the sky are so far away that they are long dead but the light will still shine for a million years for your eyes to see.

[@danayar3925]

There are multiple factors of the second movie not working as well as the first one: 1. Throughout most of it, it felt more like the story is driving the characters rather than the characters driving the story. On paper, a story focusing on Sonic and Knuckles' rivalry stemming from generational trauma sounds interesting, but the execution doesn't do much with it. It ended up being more of a find the macguffin plot. 2. Looking back on Sonic's flashback in the first movie, it seemed like the producers were planning on bringing in Shadow to the series from the start. The way Longclaw was shot right before sending Sonic to Earth felt like it was meant to parallel Shadow's game backstory, so that later on, the writers would establish a connection between Sonic and Shadow. Compared to Shadows, it doesn't seem like there were major plans set in stone for Knuckles and Tails. 3. Due to the above reason, in hindsight, the game elements introduced in the second movie feel more they're just there to setup their purpose in this movie.

[@javonscruggs8233]

21:40 i think the biolizard is a fun final boss. Super sonic bossess to me are not meant to be super difficult technical just a reward by giving you a cinematic fight. It also represents a lot of things. It represents the dark side of gearld mad science,his hatred and ugly blind rage that destroys everything in its path. The biolizard represented the darkness of a single minded goal of revenge. The biolizard isn't fighting for anything not Maria certainly, it's only seeking destruction which parallels shadow on how let the path of revenge show the worst side of him. The biolizard is ultimately just a prototype it's not sentient like shadow. Shadow ultimately has a choice and he shows us why he's the final design the ultimate design. Ironically Sonic and the Biolizard represents two path for Shadow to take. He can either live by his own rules and desires like Sonic or he can be a agent of destruction like the biolizard so it's fitting that in earth final hour Sonic the fastest thing life who's as free as the Wind and the Shadow the ultimate lifeform created to give give humanity hope to work together. Its pretty straight forward you hit the weak spot as you fight the biolizard but it works because of the story and music. That's at least why the biolizard works for me.

[@bowserbreaker2515]

2:32 I also hate the second movie. When I first saw it, it was a 2/10. On rewatch, it was a 3/10. I completely agree with you on that. This third movie is an 8/10. I definitely have issues, but it was still really good. I thought Keanu would suck because of the DLC, but he killed it. He's my third favorite Shadow. David Humphrey and Kirk Thornton are better, but he was really good.

[@nickmarlon7397]

You know ian I will be 20 when sonic 4 comes out, scary thought.

[@whaleping]

33 I’ll be, baby 🎉

[@fightingmedialounge519]

6:52 I wouldn't there exactly the same character. Which actually plays into the problem with Gerald where you see his character played more straight such as his scenes with shadow; making his more comedic come across as jarring and inconsistent.

[@pokemaster374]

During my viewing for the movie, when sonic refused to kill shadow and started having their heart to heart, the audience cheered "kill him" ! They wanted blood 😂

[@TheEzekiel300]

I have to admit, I am starting to lose hope that we will never see Sally in anything ever again after watching Sonic The Hedgehog 3 movie.

[@TheGoldenPlatoon757]

Truth! I like it but it was too fast to get to the big stuff and I wish it was avle to take it's time to develop the story of the characters. I prefer the deep lore of the games instead but it was still nice I guess. I hope that 4th film is great, but I won't let hype raise up my expectations, lol. 💯

[@Alabaster-White]

I will take Jim Cary Eggman scenes over giving other sonic movie human characters more screen time 100%. Would have preferred for Eggman mech fight instead of nanomachine insect limbs, but cg is expensive. I like that Gerald gets to almost act on his revenge though some might see it as character assassination since we never really had him act on that and we usually only see his remorseful side. Not saying can't be done, but don't know if we got full scope or tact of that scenario here. I do feel like there was alot of whiplash too where we would go from serious scene to Wade playing hockey with the Master emerald or Knuckles burning a marshmellow. Kids movie humor yeah yeah yeah, but it feels less genuine feel like you can get your laugh quote somewhere else. 3rd act felt really compact by the hour 20 minutes mark. Liked it more then the 2nd, but I still want to see jp sonic movie like in the style of the OVA.

[@JesseIART]

Suggestion when you guys finish pre-reboot Archie Sonic: Archie Megaman or Megaman Megamix

[@deedoubs]

Biolizard is a good fight. Final Hazard is shiiiiiit.

[@epicgobbleygourdfan]

FINALLY SOMEONE WHO AGREES WITH THE WHOLE GERALD STUFF 😭😭😭

[@fightingmedialounge519]

There's actually a lot of people who feel that way

[@TheGoldenPlatoon757]

Facts.

[@callibor3119]

Biggest highs is that the Comics and movies are canon to the games now. Biggest lows is that character development is nearly nonexistent. We need characters across the board to have connections to other medias that were made in Japan and Europe and also, connecting to the origins of the Chaos Emeralds means learning the backstories of all the characters that we didn’t get to fully see the first time around.

[@riripi4]

I honestly hated this movie. Hated shadow a lot and I still don’t think his acting was good. Feels way too generic to me. Most of the human cast seemed like they were phoning it in with obvious exceptions. I really hated how non threatening G.U.N. Was. It especially hurt because they didn’t do the space colony ark and the raid. I really wish Maria got shot directly as well. There’s a way to do it while still making it digestible for children. I was honestly just so disinterested in the film’s plot because I constantly felt like it was talking down to me that some of the more subtle stuff like like knuckles’ pretty good characterization flew over my head which Ian actually convinced me on but pretty much everything else I heavily disagree on. The post credits also disappointed me. Metal Sonic seems like a drone again which is fine for some stuff but I’d rather have the more character version of him from heroes and the Sonic ova. I also just really hate modern Amy and the fact she’s saving Sonic instead of him saving her already is leaving me with a bad taste in my mouth. I’m not gonna see Sonic 4 when that comes around. This movie was it for me. I feel like I could make a 4 hour video explaining why I don’t like this movie. Unfortunately I can’t make videos like that since I lack the skill to do so.

[@TheGoldenPlatoon757]

I get your points and think my high expectations got the best of me as well. I am kinda bot that excited for that 4th film, honestly. They blown their loads with Shadow so fucking early to be honest, lol.