The HUGE electric car lesson that China is serving up for America

The HUGE electric car lesson that China is serving up for America.
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[@fooksengloke3625]

Some of the most famous names in corporate America hardly pay any tax. If that is not subsidising, what is?

[@good2freelance1]

Basically, China has the right to support its own economy. Same as Australia or US ... its up to the country.

[@IMGreg..]

And to deny entry of products detrimental to the host countries economy. WTO be dammed. I'm all for Trade restrictions to promote jobs at home.

[@emilsantiz3816]

Yes, you are 1000% right, and I will add, other countries have realized that they need to start a massive change to new areas of development in the fields of Energy, Food, Health, Computer Chips and the sort. But other countries like the USA still have lots of people that still want to develop dated industries. The use of Oil for energy purposes is dated, but lobbyists in America still push for Oil, and try to block Biden's big Infra-Structure plans and projects, and by doing that, we are going nowhere. The largest markets in the world will be China and India in terms of population, and who knows, if also in purchasing power. But they are adopting more and better advanced initiatives that the USA is not.

[@shepherdsknoll]

They have right to support their own economy but due to demographics it’s not feasible. China is not a consumer based economy.

[@sonnyshaw3962]

@@emilsantiz3816 The use of oil is not dated it has taken 115 years to build the infrastructure to support that oil based fuels and it will take another 100 years to build the infrastructure to support any competition. The US government is not the Chinese government and China was told many times in the past to stop relying on exports to sustain their economy. China has failed to listened to those voices and has no domestic market like the US and other developed nation. If tomorrow the other economies decided to block Chinese imports into their countries; the Chinese economy would not have the domestic market to sustain such economic changes. Talk about serving up lessons!

[@emilsantiz3816]

@@sonnyshaw3962 I understand your point, but that doesn't mean the industry is not dated. An Industry or Procedure is dated when other new, more advanced and efficient alternatives start to appear. Is just a matter of time to be replaced. Also, many countries have started to impose limits into when they will allow the sale of ICE vehicles starting in the 2030's. And technology has advanced a lot that the time that took a previous one to establish itself maybe counted in hundreds of years, but for the the next one it will take less, and then the new one takes even less to establish, and that is what will happen here. There will still be some places where old stuff will hold, but eventually everything would have been gone through the new one technology. And the Electronics industry is one example of it. From large electric boards build into whole enormous buildings in the early 1900's, to vacuum tubes, to the transistor to the integrated circuits to the CPU's to the System-on-Chip (SOC) that has billions of transistors in less than 2 square millimeters. And the people who wants to stay with their old vehicles the alternative of converting them to EV/BEV will appear in large amounts. Yes, the Oil Industry as the mover of civilizations is DATED, and by far.

[@tat3179]

You are absolutely right. Tesla recently launched their Tesla Plaid. It is supposed to be the fastest production car in the world. But it costs 140K. Not interested. I simply cannot afford one. Nor the Tesla Model 3. Any electric car I will buy will be a Chinese one because they simply offers the best bang for my buck. And their quality and innovation is better too.

[@paulholterhaus7084]

I think Toyota will wind up being the best choice........Unfortunately, maybe 5 years out.........Paul

[@sat7755]

Absolutely and Ho Chi Min was a Buddhist Monk . Go on Tell the world that Communist is the only way to go, considering the happiness they have delivered so far to anybody who is that dumb to believe that.

[@tat3179]

@@sat7755 So far the Communist delivered a living standard far better than Democratic India, if we compare population density wise, 1.4 billion versus 1.2 billion. So yeah. Ho Chi Min is a Buddhist monk to me. And Chinese cars has better value than western ones. Now you can continue being salty to this reality. Lol

[@MrWadsox]

@@sat7755 get a life gino.

[@creolerican]

YOU need a better job path if you can't afford a model 3, sorry about YOUR luck, chuck. YOU will just have to stop flipping burgers and get a better career path. bud Prices will keep coming down year by year and YOU will eventually will be able to afford EV. just be patient, Buttercup

[@leetan3306]

Spot on! Every country has subsidised their car industry. Thank you for the insightful narration.👍

[@rhiantaylor3446]

When you put it like that, it actually makes more sense to support potentially successful new companies rather than throw good money after bad on companies that are going downhill in a big way.

[@linalbert]

just check the charging infrastructure in china compared to USA. The charging infrastructure in china is massive! No problems driving city to city!

[@alfredneuman6488]

As long as the bridges that you travel on don't fall down. Look at the stats and see just how many have!

[@tat3179]

@@alfredneuman6488 ：Looked at stats. Yep. Zero.

[@alfredneuman6488]

@@tat3179 I guess your version of Google in China does not show them BUT my version in the West does.

[@tat3179]

@@alfredneuman6488 Who says I am even from Mainland China?

[@alfredneuman6488]

@@tat3179 "Ng" actually suggests to me that you might have Malaysian Chinese background. "Yee Tat" maybe Hong Kong... I don't really care though as CCP toadies live under rocks everywhere.

[@KineticEV]

All I know is that if BYD so the Han or if Xpeng were allowed to sell theur P7 here at the prices they're selling in China then it's a done deal. I want a Tesla but getting pretty much everything they have in these model cars will sway a lot of buyers.

[@sonnyshaw3962]

It still comes down to range and charging stations!

[@Hotspur657]

@@sonnyshaw3962 Also service stations

[@pdsnpsnldlqnop3330]

Brand value works two ways. I would like an XPeng or a Nio or a BYD - the list goes on. They don't come with the baggage of ICE. Buying an EV from a legacy auto maker makes as much sense as buying a vegan food item from McDonalds. Sure McDonalds have the patents in burgers and can deliver an excellent burger, but who cares if you want a fundamentally different product. Also I have extremely positive experiences of buying Chinese made and Chinese branded goods. In my mind, Huawei are the best and I would not want a heavy Dell machine because it is just old hat compared to the luxury of Huawei. Price comes into it to, so, for me, as much as Tesla are awesome, I would prefer to set my sights on the P7 even if it comes with Chinese characteristics such as the odd mistranslation and excellent customer service. You have to reject the Western media/government hate for China and buying Chinese is a way of doing that. Racism by people who consider themselves in authority is not to be tolerated, even if it is weasel words about Xinjang/Hong Kong or Taiwan that they use.

[@BillLaBrie]

Electric cars are only marginally different from gas powered ones. No matter the power plant, a car needs body integrity and a suspension that doesn’t break. Tesla owners experience failures in each that probably wouldn’t have beset a product from a real car company. While I’m happy to hear of your positive experiences with Chinese products, almost everyone else seems to find problems. How much is the CCP paying you, btw?

[@ButchNackley]

China can't make an electric toaster that doesn't fail pretty quickly. I would not have any faith in an EV from them. The failure rate of junk from China is so bad, I do everything I can to buy as little products from them as possible. Even big name brand items do not last very long. Metal parts such as bearings, etc wear out in no time. Rubber parts begin to leech and get sticky very quickly. Electronic parts also fail in short order. Nope, Chain makes cheap junk with very few exceptions.

[@prioris55555]

@@ButchNackley I have always wondered why chinese prefer foreign products. Because China has had a severe quality control problems. They sell junk to their own consumers. The electric car won't be viable in US to mass market until something equivalent to solid state battery comes to fruition and the chargers become way more ubiquitous. Price is still way too expensive. Estimates are around year 2026. Buying a low cost car from another country costs 20% in import tax. Other than the battery, everything about the car is low tech. EV mass market is still at least 5-10 years away

[@sonnyshaw3962]

@@prioris55555 China's domestic market isn't as big as the US market. China failed to heed the warning given about depending on exports to drive their economy into the 21st century. Plus China's one baby policy is starting to hurt them; their population is getting older and there is not enough new births to counter that trend. As far as EV's; it still comes down to the batteries and availability of charging stations. That is the infrastructure that is needed to start backing off on the fossil fueled cars. Once batteries are giving drivers 300 or more miles on a single charge; then the EV industry will take off like crazy.

[@Mayangone]

We spent over $700 millions in subsidizing research in synthetic fuels in the 80's and nothing to show for. We spent billions on subsidizing research in using plutonium as fuel and nothing to show for. I could go on ......

[@good2freelance1]

Plutonium as fuel? a wet dream for terrorists.

[@Mayangone]

@@good2freelance1 It was the MOX program.

[@incognitotorpedo42]

You can always find failed programs. That's not a reason to stop investment, it's a reason to be smarter.

[@branonmack]

I agree with you! let China encur the costs of subsidies with no real benefit, we can copy their tech just like they have done with our tech... they will copy our tech anyway they always have,

[@nickl5658]

China looks at the big picture... not just at the car industry as one issue and air pollution as another issue and health problem of its citizens due to pollution as another issue. It is all interlinked. China has to push for the removal of ICE cars. and adoption of EV just to reduce the air pollution problem. Either China pays by supporting EV industry, or it pays to clean up its air or it pays higher medical cost and human suffering. China has to pay one way or another and has decided to pay by promoting EV.

[@electricviking]

Good points Nick.

[@baronvonlimbourgh1716]

It is called efficient governance.

[@Carl_in_AZ]

Being late in Technology is not always bad. China realized this by going wireless instead of running phone lines. Presently 65% percent of their power generation comes from coal because they have very little Natural Gas. They are the world's third-largest importer of LNG. Recently they added major hydro power which is their largest renewable energy source. They also upgraded their infrastructure with a backbone of 1.1MegVolt power lines which connects up to their Hydro generation and 54 nuclear plants under construction. Yes, like the USA they realized coal is not good and because their lack of other natural resources and realizing you can not live off solar and wind they see the future as nuclear, and hopefully someday we will see the same with nuclear microreactors scattered all over the USA. Our hydropower is maxed out and decreasing in parts of the USA due to drought. Adding wind and solar is good but can not fill the ever-increasing demand for power. Many of the coal plants that have been shut down have been replaced with NG which now accounts for 40% of our electrical power. Keep in mind NG produces NOx so it is not green unlike nuclear.

[@Peter-vn8ue]

Yes Sam for the majority it comes down to price and this is what stops so many from purchasing an EV in Australia and why I'm buying a BYD EV over any other brand, it's because of its affordability and I know I'm getting a quality built car with advanced charging capabilities and better range and technology included. I just wish BYD would put the acclaimed range of their electric vehicles as a WLTP figure instead of NEDC. All their range figures for their EV's are NEDC based. For example, the T3 BYD Van has a 300km NEDC range so it might be closer to 270km in the WLTP figures for the range. 17 days to go until the Order books open for me to order my BYD EV.

[@samj4348]

Hi Peter - are you getting the T3 Van? I saw that Nexport hasnt been clear on battery capacity - the website says 44.9kwh but brouchure is 50kwh... maybe the 5kwh is a buffer? We will Be getting an ea 1

[@electricviking]

@@samj4348 the battery is 50, but 44 is the useable capacity. Every EV has a buffer.

[@Peter-vn8ue]

@@samj4348 Not the T3 van hopefully the Yuan Plus crossover if we can order it on July 1st if I like the look of it. Hopefully, it's based on the BYD X Dream concept car revealed at the Shanghai motor show and not the current Yuan Pro on sale currently in China which looks like a clone of Ford's 2018 Ecosport sold here. If I can't order the Yaun Plus crossover it will definitely be the EA1 Hatchback.

[@JA-pn4ji]

Lets rewind back a little. Neither the US or Australia promoted EV technology instead both were obsessed with ICE vehicles. Musk and his cars were just an eccentric curio in a landscape dominated by ICE vehicles. The genius was to link EVs with the semiconductor industry in a way that now appears seamless.

[@yolo_burrito]

You’re forgetting that Tesla got a ton of low interest US government backed loans.

[@electricviking]

Matthew every car brand gets subsidies, there are none that haven't.

[@clintatk]

A very thoughtful presentation. Keep it up! 👍👍

[@hylimm]

China has the labour force, industrial might and can produce the EV cheaper than US! For most part of the world they are only interested in affordable EV with reasonable level of technology! They don’t need cutting edge spec that comes with high cots n this is where China is good at!

[@sat7755]

You have a very good point there, but you cannot establish dominance in the markets with Golf carts, which they might be OK in China and other poor markets. In the European and North American markets for the majority the buyers do look at sophisticated cars with far more interest than other parts of the world. As China being able to produce cheaper cars because of cheaper labor, that might be just a marginal advantage as high end assembly lines can move a lot faster than a labor intensive one. So let the boys fight it out in the open markets and see what the situation will be a few years down the road.But I personally think that Tesla alone will become the most devastating beast to worry about, able to capture both end and center parts of the markets, we will see.

[@hylimm]

@@sat7755 @ you went to the extreme. those are definitely not golf carts. those ore affordable family sedans.

[@nickl5658]

@@sat7755 I don't think Tesla will make much of an impact in Asia. It is too expensive and it really isn't all that waterproof. Tesla QC needs a lot of work. No support service either.

[@baronvonlimbourgh1716]

Most cars sold around the world are pretty simple models. Most people don't care about all the tech bells and whistles. Good simple cars with decent range, reliability and standard comforts that are cheap is what most people want everywhere. That is what sells volume.

[@baronvonlimbourgh1716]

@@nickl5658 tesla is becomming more and more a overpriced fashion item. They are losing market share quickly in europe to the traditional brands already. Tesla needs to quickly refresh their model line if they want to stay competitive because they are starting to look rather stale. The model s is a 15 year old design and the model 3 is a derivative from the model s. Other brands refresh their model line up every 7/8 years or so.

[@aro-rat]

China is as Japan was in late 70s... Just wait a few years, even for Tesla 2, there will be an EV at every price point, basic to luxury, they will charge fast do city driving to 1000 + miles on a single charge from home. FSD will be normal. You will order a robotaxi at 3am in your street and the headlights of your neighbour's car will turn on and it will pick you up and drop you at the airport, you may just fly on a Tesla or a Chinese plane, probably a Tesla plane with fuel as backup - I think they have experience on building rockets too 🤔 It seems like the days of the monster ICE companies are over, they will kill themselves by not offering or being able to offer a direct EV replacement for the plethora of ICE models they offer now... The Osborne effect is kicking in. Dealerships will fade away, tesla will set up charging restaurants on large dealer plots... The irony. You can see the picture unfolding...

[@aro-rat]

@Peter Plum that's actually a good point. Thanks for the correction.

[@emilsantiz3816]

You are talking like a Prophet!!!! What you say is what already China started, and the USA will be a distant second soon if America don't start to renovate soon!!!! And I like your idea of Charging Restaurants!!!!!

[@sonnyshaw3962]

ICE companies are over? Don't think so there Skippy. How fast can you build the infrastructure to accommodate EV's like you have with the Fossil Fuel Cars? Oh just for reference it took 100 years to build the fossil fuel infrastructure we have today!

[@cpucooler88]

Bravo for pointing out that the writer has an agenda to promote at the cost of his readers being misinformed. This is why I watch your channel to get the most fact based perspective of EV's anywhere. Thank you.

[@paulholterhaus7084]

We would be further ahead if Trump had not fought against green earth policies......God forbid He should come back......Paul

[@chriss2295]

There is nothing stopping any country from prospering.

[@ricknoah9184]

As long as US companies are profit based, they can't win this race. Why ?? Easy answer...you have to have a market. No way a US car maker can make an affordable car and still pay their CEOs and stockholders. The average US family can not afford electric cars at current pricing.

[@johnmanque]

How do various nations solve a major problem ? In the US, 50% of the dedicated work force will pray, 10% will work on an engineering solution, 10% will use political power to help the top 10% rich/idle and the remaining 20% will invest in stocks. In Germany, 10% of the dedicated work force will pray, 50% will work on an engineering solution, 10% will use political power to help the top 10% rich/idle and the remaining 20% will invest in stocks. In India, 50% of the dedicated work force will pray, 10% will work on an engineering solution, 30% will use political power to help the top 5% rich/idle and the remaining 5% will invest in stocks. In China, 0% of the dedicated work force will pray, 80% will work on an engineering solution, 5% will use political power to help the top 5% rich/idle and the remaining 10% will invest in stocks. If we factor in the size of their respective population it is easy to see which nation will move forward faster.

[@Paul-mu9ng]

Fantastic report. Truly great work.

[@electricviking]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@theinfralink6598]

Question: US is blocking Huawei 5g technologies. Does that create a problem for it’s EV development with automatic driving?

[@supercomp7078]

Problem is, as Germany found out, wind and solar can not cope, you get so far and only so much electrical generation form wind and solar, the wind does not always blow and the sun not always shine and there are NO batteries you can use to store it, Germany has decommissioned many of it's nuclear plants and has had to recommission coal power stations, as you get fluctuations from wind and solar you need to vary the output from other back power stations, nuclear does not work like that, so coal stations had to come back on line as they can cope with sudden fluctuation demands. Germanies CO2 emmissions have tripled since they introduced solar and wind, you. Nuclear is the only way forward to get emission free power generation, look into the nuclear accidents that scare you, you will find very little damage done, Chernobyl was a freak caused by poor Russian design the can not happen again, modern molten salt designs are clean, green and safe

[@fannyalbi9040]

talk about molten salt, days ago china just announced it innovation. i saw it on yt

[@zomgneedaname]

Good analysis mate, i think you might need to put a disclaimer/some sort of visual aid in the middle when you are reading the atlantic article that it's not your own personal opinion. Otherwise it might be confusing to new viewers what your views actually are.

[@laohu5511]

in the word 广州 in Chinese the second syllabe is pronounced zhōu (like "Jo" in English) .

[@deedeemao6809]

That is the main issue, western countries HAVE been subsidizing the car companies and any other major corporations.

[@alone-tt8dg6ic6f]

Excellent insights... Great demonstration.

[@electricviking]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@gfbprojects1071]

Totally agree. I have just taken delivery of my Tesla Model LR. Guess where it was made? China of course, and it’s quality, including panel fit and paint, is superior to the earlier US models. I bought this expensive car because of frustration with our Australian govt’s lack action on EVs and climate change in Australia. Regrettably, I could have waited for the XPeng and cheaper BYD models to establish themselves here but without proper govt leadership here I may have died waiting. I have always believed that China was going to be a world leader in the production of affordable EVs because they have the most ‘skin in the game’. Who cares if they ‘are accused of stealing’ western technology? People said that about the Japanese car industry when they got started, while legacy western manufacturers sat on their behinds and were slow to innovate. People forget that Tesla had already put most of its own patents out in the public domain. The Chinese have to get their climate response right and they are not stuffing around. They have a long way to go but at least they are pointing in the right direction.

[@prioris55555]

what climate response are you talking about

[@sonnyshaw3962]

You have no idea what you are talking about, but when you are on a roll you just cannot stop! Climate Change will not drive the EV industry! The EV industry will be driven by infrastructure and driving range; it will be driven by Amp Hours of batteries and whether there is a charging station within range of you EV.

[@prioris55555]

@@sonnyshaw3962 agree. EV will come to fruition when solid state batteries or equivalent come on line and a critical mass of charging stations. global warming is a monumental scientific fraud. record levels of cosmic rays will put an end to that lie. every major country is cooperating with the fraud.

[@pmor5992]

it seems that the biggest problem with electricity is our aged/crumbling infrastructure , so if we dont fix the foundation none of the rest of these ideas/innovations will work reliably for very long , check out the rolling brown/black outs in the west due to the current heat wave , and in regard to wind/solar the wind dont always blow and the sun dont always shine and again the infrastructure will take decades to build/maintain not to mention the unintended environmental costs/consequenses , imo ;-)

[@foxylady1048]

Poor lad, are you feeling unwell today. Hope you get well soon.

[@sandorski56]

Not just Price, Supply. There is far more Demand for EVs than there is Supply. They will flood the Market because they are the only one who Can....at least at this point in time.

[@afshinshahzamani2297]

Good analysis, but the same can be said about every car company outside of China. Nobody can hold a candle to Tesla, but some will catch up, and more likely than not, they'll be Chinese companies.

[@HTeo-og1lg]

Let's be honest and do away with hypocrisy. When US was both rich and advanced technologically, I remember my small nation had our national industries decimated by competition from the West, esp. the US. We were coerced into accepting the flooding of our domestic markets by the so-called more competitive Western businesses and technology. We were even sold by our politicians to accept that globalisation is what brings this all about. Now, as the table has turned, suddenly globalisation is a "bad word" because the pervasive news media in the West has now changed tune, and told the rest of the non-Western world that it is wrong to have globalisation. That it was the mercantile eastern economies, from Japan, then Korea, then China which has game the free market system. Now, I don't listen to the hypocrisy of the Western media anymore. It is good only when it is good for them, and bad when it is good for non-Western societies. Let the world go on free competition. Ignore the Western shameless hypocrisy.

[@aorvi7343]

"how long does it take to charge the tank?" "I can fill my car with gas in ten minutes" "pay & leave" "then, drive for a week" "nothing else, really takes more priority" "How quickly can I fill my cars tank" "how long can I go, before I fill it again? "These are the important questions"

[@MrWadsox]

And how much are you willing to pay for that?

[@aorvi7343]

@@MrWadsox it's Biden & Kamala, they raised the price of Car Gas $2 a gallon, since January '21. I used to pay $2 a gallon in Dec. He's a Thief, and a murderer. Write Biden, he's at 1600 pennsylvania ave 20500. Bitch about $3.83 a gallon now.

[@51bpm]

I really appreciate your viewpoints. Different than most... Keep up the good work.

[@electricviking]

Cheers Dave.

[@alinthemind]

Absolutely agree! WuLing Mini EV is an early example of low end disruption, targeting 1.2m vehicles in 2022. They are smart to utilize battery pack technologies from Octillion, whose founder was also the former chief engineer of Tesla. How can Western companies keep up?

[@Briguy1027]

Cars in and of themselves are not commodities. Sure you can make them cheaper with cheap labor or perhaps a ready supply of batteries. But try damaging the car or if something goes wrong. That's where I wouldn't want to buy a Chinese car. Not sure I'd trust the warranty.

[@evmike71]

I would not purchase an EV manufactured in China.

[@Thinkofwhat]

The difference between China and America comes down to this.....the top chinese leaders including president Xi are mostly engineers so for them it's always about looking for solutions in a methodical way whereas the American are mostly lawyers trying to argues for the sake arguments. Not saying that china is a utopia.....hell far far from it but we must give credit where credit's due just saying.

[@charlesbeaudry3263]

These kinds of policies were prevalent in US in 30's to 60's, during the FDR era and is the development strategies that were shown to work by Prof Marianna Mazucatto in "The Entrepreneurial State". US these days seems to think that printing fiat money is a better route to prosperity. It certainly is for the 1%.

[@charlesbeaudry3263]

@Peter Plum The irony is the the 99% have never worked harder. The problem is that the percentage of the adult population is 20% down from the 60's. Imagine all the potential economic activity from that 20%. But the 1% prefers to pauperize the whole American population. No Peter, it is not for lack of "hardworking", it is by design, as a result of the cancer of the "world reserve currency". No need to pay taxes, no need to invest in infrastructure. The 1% will retire to Elysium, as soon as it becomes engineeringly feasible.

[@USAluangprabang]

White House also looking to protect the legacy ICE manufacturer too. It's in a tough spot.

[@Cspacecat]

That's dead wrong. Nuclear is the only way to eliminate carbon as a fuel source. Everything else is simply not cost-effective. Batteries are simply too expensive. Hydrogen can be produced when solar panels would normally be idled due to the overproduction of electricity. That eliminates the 18-wheeler cost for transportation.

[@JoseFernandez-mn6qt]

I agree with a good deal of what you presented here, except that nuclear and hydrogen are a waste of time and money. Nuclear, especially if we use Thorium based molten salt reactors, should be a huge part of the Electric grid of the future. On the other hand, hydrogen fuel cells can be massively more efficient than batteries for larger transports, like big rigs, or "semis'" as they're also called.

[@lilydev2808]

Foreign manufacturers are also given subsidies. Where's your problem with this policy?

[@electricviking]

I have no problem with EV incentives in any country, they're great!

[@svenssvensson9024]

Price is what will make Chinese BEVs the winner within 5 years.

[@rickh9852]

Solar and wind power simply can't supply enough energy. And they are not as clean as people think. A major breakthrough in battery tech would certainly help. We may need something else entirely. Maybe a breakthrough in fusion energy would do it. China is burning coal like never before.

[@abond311]

Military spending on EV could help Raytheon . . .

[@USAluangprabang]

Wall street believe in outsourcing. If you keep manufacturing in the US. Your company stock will drop. Wall Street only look at short term profits. Manufacturing in the US is a looser business. Wall Street speak, White House listen.

[@brianpetersen3429]

Well said.

[@MyKharli]

Very informative , thankyou .

[@electricviking]

You’re welcome mate.

[@McClarinJ]

State support vs. free enterprise hasn't been tested yet. There is no free enterprise or laissez faire economy. I agree with Elon Musk, end ALL subsidies.

[@tedchandran]

The best lesson for US is Real competition where US will have basically 1 car company crushing all other versus China's more than 500 car companies.

[@randomname931]

disagree with your assessment. chinese car brands are gaining steam and innovating. nio is pioneering battery swapping stations. li auto, xpeng, byd, and nio of course are producing quality, good looking cars that the chinese are buying.

[@electricviking]

Your comment here is pretty much what I said in the video Random - not sure why you think we disagree mate.

[@frnkbooth6871]

Agreed. First order of business is to cancel the ban on all nuclear power plants, like China, so we can begin a massive build out of this infrastructure to support the electric grid. But this will NEVER happen so it’s a waste of time. China has 47 in operation, 11 under construction.

[@trevorevans7101]

With twin cab utes totally saturating the market, which Chinese companies are producing ‘must have’ utes like RT1 or Cybertruck? It’s interesting that just like the best selling twin-cab utes over the last 20 years the most popular EV purchases today can change quickly. I’m guessing that over the next 10-20 years more competitive EV companies will emerge from all corners.

[@binqian2022]

It is a shame. Washington was the first, at least before Beijing, to subsidize EV manufactures, for the first 300K EVs. Washington stopped subsidizing Tesla is because they had exceeded the limit. Without the money from Washington, Tesla would have bankrupted before it produce model 3.

[@electricviking]

Good point Bin.

[@yolo_burrito]

They also gave Tesla government backed loans in the late aughts. The GOP rage machine labeled it as a waste due to Solyndra failure but Tesla is a huge success of the same program.

[@ogremgtow990]

Here in the US you have the Big problem of how to expand the electric grid. Every time something needs to be added ( either generation or transmission ) you get " Not in my neighborhood ". So how are you going to fix that problem ?

[@baronvonlimbourgh1716]

Decentralised generation. The usa is perfect for it with everyone living in suburbs. Most people can be mostly self sufficient energy wise if they want. No need for grids.

[@philliporeilly901]

Excellent video, you gave a very fair exposition of the The Atlantic article, however, like most US opinion now, has to be checked through other sources for veracity. Bidens infrastructure plans will fall victim to partisanship in Congress and is ultimately hand waving and wishful thinking. The models of industrial development particularly in relation to automobiles, are that of Japan and South Korea. Heavy capitalisation from government and preferential marketing. China will not be monstered by the US as the Japanese were in the 1980s.

[@electricviking]

Good point Phillip. I really hope his infrastructure plan gets approved.

[@oldergrump5290]

Price always makes the difference

[@mairmatt]

What if China is not in competition with the US?

[@GdaySport]

I think Tesla will be a thorny irritant to the Chinese EV makers. They will stay ahead of them through innovation, technology, and their own battery production will be cost effective and better in terms of energy density. The subsidies will not help them innovate, they will simply copy and make cheap versions therefore never getting ahead. Luckily the market is big enough for them all in the long term.

[@nickl5658]

But not on cost. Tesla is still very expensive/

[@GdaySport]

@@nickl5658 because demand us too high. Why would they sell cheaper when they can't produce enough cars? In a few years when they are making 4 million cars a year it will happen.

[@electricviking]

I agree, the market is big enough for all.

[@jxmai7687]

Right - The subsidies will not help them innovate, Wrong - they will simply copy and make cheap versions. fine, keep your head in the sand.

[@Rex-ww4cw]

@@GdaySport a year later, now BYD sold more EV than Tesla in China. It is even competing Tesla outside of China. Currently BYD Atto 3 is the second best selling EV in Australia and New Zealand behind Tesla.

[@chadlymath]

I don't see so many reports of the U.S. going in on Hydrogen as much as I do with European & Asian sources, but -- there's also a lot of trains, ships, & flying cars/taxis (that *won't fly as well, on batteries as the *primary, since fcev's still have batteries) -- which need hydrogen, besides potentials in energy storage *and fresh-water making, from electrolysis of salt-water which (through the fuel cell) make the hydrogen fresh water... besides semi & other commercial, apartment-residential, or towing-needs. - Also: wave/tidal-energy is the thing not getting tapped, *yet.

[@matthewo2261]

I thought that the majority of your video was YOUR opinion. I didn't realize you were reading an artical. I'm glad I didn't comment earlier because my comments wouldn't have been kind.

[@stevenbarrett7648]

In another ten years or so Great Britain will get where the Chinese are right now, we are so short sighted and slow. We invented the Camel, it was supposed to be a racehorse until a government committee got involved

[@samuelnelson9010]

Our falling behind was to be expected with Trump. His push was backward.

[@tsamuel6224]

Exactly. Any responsible gov't will subsidize its auto industry big time. Only an American republican would be stupid enough to allow a major auto firm to fail.

[@eagle2855]

Poor analysis and poor conclusion. This piece was conceived to discredit China. Please tell us how Tesla began as a manufacturing company? Did Tesla get government handout?

[@jamespkinsella5018]

You did not add Thermal energy production cheaper than all other energy systems????

[@afs-drew9644]

Link to article missing - wtf

[@danielgriffin8132]

China can keep the electric cars. America doesn't have electricity or powe grid to carry the electricity for electric cars. .

[@ibrahimn22]

Chinese Electric cars would sell well in west but they are not allowed to sell there due to anti dumping laws as the companies making them are subsidised by government. That's why they not selling well in west .

[@electricviking]

That isn’t true. Thousands of chinas cars have been sold in the west this month alone.

[@morrisdyer9560]

Right now China don't need to fight for world class right now.

[@jdonalds2001]

It appears to me that China is going to dominate the EV market, rolling over the likes of Ford, GM, Tesla, and all of the traditional car companies.

[@johnchin1456]

very sad when u compare today to the america of the 1950s, even the people look so far removed. it not nice to mock a country in decline, america needs to look in the mirror and ask whos has gained from the decline and thieft the nation. they will find the enemy was much closer ro home

[@ronniechew6566]

That mirror is made in China 🤣

[@fannyalbi9040]

don’t blame mirror 🪞 if u r ugly

[@typhoon320i]

"If you're new, welcome. If you're not, also welcome" ....otherwise copywriter infringement.

[@mdoc3259]

Great video

[@ronaldgarrison8478]

Gave this a like, but too much reading from previously prepared materials means this is not one of this channel's better episodes.

[@electricviking]

Thanks Ronald - I'll keep that in mind.

[@ibrahimn22]

The Americans have always spent huge amounts of money to set up companies only to be privatised and then shaft the tax payer. This man discounts nuclear and hydrogen as a dead end but I think they are the only way to come off coal and gas for electricity generation. You cannot achieve uninterrupted electricity generation with out nuclear energy. It cannot be done .

[@electricviking]

Incorrect, it is being done now with wind, solar and batteries. Nuclear is triple the price.

[@IanMcGarrett]

Kind of missing the point. China's subsidies of EV manufacturing aren't about creating market dominance for Chinese EVs, it is about completely and unconditionally leaving the age of fossil fuels.

[@sarvdeepmatharu5698]

Smart and muscular, rare combination Mr Sweet.

[@beautifulgirl219]

Nuclear energy is currently the cleanest, safest, and only form of electricity generation that takes full responsibility for 100% of the waste it generates. THAT'S the future! You turned the ball over big-time at the 5:37 mark. Learn about nuclear Viking.

[@melb5996]

Sorry I had to stop when you began dissing nuclear. ☹️

[@electricviking]

I used to believe nuclear would work - then I realised after lots of research that is not cost competitive. Renewables are a much better option.

[@bruceeyers9819]

Yes I bought a MG EV in NZ great car for the price . You are right on the money !! Hydrogen will never take off as too energy inefficient. Chinese cars will predominate on price .Of course the Tesla M3 is a better car but 50% more price.

[@nickl5658]

The question is will Tesla M3 travel 50% further before breaking down. When the cost for repairs and replacement parts is factored in, which is the better car.

[@emilsantiz3816]

@@nickl5658 The Tesla M3 is the better car, and by FAR. For that failure, you will have to wait for a million kms on the average to happen, while finding an ICE car that have gone 300,000 kms without failure or any maintenance is not the rule, but the exception. The Nissan Leaf is an example of this. The 500,000 thousand Leafs sold so far have approached more than 5 billion kms of use, and their only big problem is the battery degradation of their first generations, but not major breakdowns as in ICE vehicles. And the Teslas are better than the Leaf, and constantly improving- they are the actual standard, and the Chinese and others are trying to emulate, tie, and then surpass. But Teslas are ahead in EV/BEV technology for several years because Tesla doesn't have bin legacy. Tesla started with a blank piece of paper, not so for GM, Ford, MB, BMW, Toyota or Honda and others that would have to write off all those legacy parts, plants and procedures. And well designed electric motors last for long without failures, that is not the case for ICE where friction and heat for example, are problems.

[@tomwaller6893]

So dearest English Brexit. Where does that place England alone without Scotland or a Unified Ireland?

[@robertmason9265]

We don't go big on state enterpise because they cannot be costed without a true market so invstment is usually perverted, too big or small, and prices are set for market share not profit, or set too high if they are a monopoly. This has caused many massive investments in complex goods and markets to be wasted in China [and in the US, UK, etc], most notably semiconductors, 5g, the BRI, jet engines and AI. And capitalist nations will not become dependent on China either as markets or suppliers. We have noted what they did to Australia. So, we will use Chinese goods when they are cheap [benefiting from CCP investment or subsidy] but not at the expense of our own markets or expertise. So China will not be allowed to become the hegemon it craves.

[@nordic5490]

The USA subsidises their auto industry to a tune of $19USD per capita pa Germany by $90 USD per capita pa Sweden by $250 USD per capita pa France ? Italy ? Japan ? Here in Oz it was $21 USD per capita pa before GM pulled the plug. GM was asking thisto be raised to $23 USD before Tony Abbott dropped inport tarrifs on Korean SUVs. Holden announced their closure the very next day. This was a long term strategy by the Oz LNP to knee cap income to the Labor party via Union subs in the unionised manufacturing facilities.

[@sonnyshaw3962]

Well China may build all those electric cars, but will they be allowed to be imported into the US. The US bans certain vehicles from being imported into the US; that is the question here; not whether China is going to serve up a lesson to the US. Ask Japan they cannot to this day import certain vehicles they make into the US. Don't underestimate the US and it's ability to serve up a few lesson of it's own; especially since school is out!

[@sctexan5392]

I still think hydrogen is the best option. Just saw a video of a group in California making hydrogen using solar. No poisonous chemicals and hazardous waste.

[@victorluke5816]

Four times the range for the electricity generated from solar if you just stick it in a battery rather than making hydrogen. Faster charging each year. Tesla is upgrading to 300kw from 250kw. Charging was alreadly at 1000 miles an hour with 250kw.

[@richardstubbs6484]

Look what China did to the Indian pharmaceutical industry ! Big investment and subsidised production - put the opposition out of business...

[@fannyalbi9040]

i thought india is the world biggest generic drugs producer. no?

[@johnehogan]

Electric cars are simply NOT VIABLE options for the masses right now no matter how evolved they may be. Come on now, Think about it REALLY think about it..... Okay here is one thing to consider that makes my above statement true and valid.... Today for example is July 2, 2021 and right now we have a major heat wave moving across areas of the USA that it normally does not do this time of year. Power outages are going on due to it right now and more expected to be in LA, and other places. When the power is OUT - You can not charge your electric car and the grid MAY be down for DAYS/WEEKS. That is scenario #1. Scenario #2. Let us say 50% of our population DOES get sold on the idea of electric cars and buys one. Now say ONLY 10% of that 50% of the population plug their cars into the grid to charge it ALL AT THE SAME TIME. What do you think will happen? You smarter people out there will know the answer already. Exactly. There would be a huge need for more power plants (most which require fossil fuels to burn, or hazardous Nuclear plants created). So How are we doing so far in the green energy VS pollution solution? I am all in favor of LESS pollution and green energy solutions and indeed use SOlar for running some things at my home, and even for my Ham Radio repeaters and such things. Fact is the world is NOT yet ready based on the technology THEY tell us is available right now for Electric cars to be viable as they would NOT save any carbon emissions what so ever if even 50% or more of the people went to that so called 'Solution'. (it is NOT a solution at this time). Eventually we will arrive at the time whereas FREE GRID energy in abundance IS available (which I know is already a thing, just not yet mainstream). When that happens Electric cars, Jets and planes, Boats, and lawnmowers will all be viable and needed for everyone.

[@junkeatng]

Washington shut the door on cooperation during Trump's time. That was a Sputnik moment for Washington but even more so for China.

[@yolo_burrito]

Huh? You know that Sputnik launched the Space Race right!

[@jvin248]

It's a circular argument but China can have low wages because they tax their citizens less which results in lower rents and consumer product costs and thus they can get the same standard of living for lower costs and their lower wages are ok. That is the main factor missed in all of these 'analysis' of 'low cost wages'. Could you get by easier on lower wages if your rent were only 25% of what it is now? If your food and utility bills were 50% of what they are now? You'd live like a king with the money you save. The US has embarked on a Robin Hood tactic to garner votes when they rob from the rich and give to the poor -- except inflation makes the poor into the rich and those taxes impact them now too. Up next is hyperinflation and destruction of the currency. When it takes a million dollars to buy a loaf of bread, you are taxed like you are one of 'the rich'.

[@bigpicture3]

When the battery is finished the EV is finished, unless the battery is replacable. So the battery needs to last 5-10 years, and still be rechargeable. Then it needs to be environmentally disposable or recyclable. Just a few of the related challenges, the immediate one is "where will the electricity come from", when China is currently experiencing power cuts and blackouts. Because they are pissed off at the Aussies and refuse to buy their coal. So far EVs are zero sum game, there is nothing for nothing, the energy still has to come from somewhere. Whatever the energy source it still has to be converted to electricity to run EVs.

[@electricviking]

You need to watch more of my videos my friend. New EV batteries can do over 1,000,000 kilometres, so they last FAR longer than a conventional ICE vehicle. The great thing is you can even recycle the material in the batteries after end of use - that is the opposite to zero sum.

[@bigpicture3]

@@electricviking I think you are missing the point. The question is "where does the electricity come from" (that goes into the battery) Because without it the battery is just a pile of metal and chemicals. The battery is a storage place for energy, not a creator/generator of energy. Energy does not come from nowhere, as they found out in Texas last winter, and at -30c temperatures like we have here, these batteries don't store a lot of energy when the grid goes down. Absolutely no different from when there is a gas supply (energy type) shortage.

[@nickl5658]

@@bigpicture3 Yeah but coal power plant is more efficient at turning fossil fuel into electricity and motors from electricity to motion and ICE are at turning fossil fuel to motion. Also China is building more hydrodams and nuclear power station and solar and wind power farms.... So there is a net lowering of CO2 emissions.

[@bigpicture3]

@@nickl5658 Currently the US power grid uses >4 trillion kwhours annually, and gasoline vehicles also use over >4 trillion kwhours of gasoline equivalent annually. So if just the current vehicles (not including diesel highway haul trucks) were all electric, the power grid would need over twice the capacity it has now. Just throwing out some hard math instead of a narrow and short technology view here. So again "where will the electricity come from", when the grid can barely keep up today? So the "green recommended" process is actually moving the burning of fossil fuel to electric power plants instead of in the vehicles themselves. (out of sight, out of mind) And then personal choices might be "do I use my home air conditioner" or "do I charge the battery in my car" today. And for industry choices, do we build more "green and unreliable" power generation systems, or "fossil and other reliable" power generation systems. (when there is no longer wind, or no sunshine, in a geographical area, just blow up the windmills, or the solar farms) China has discovered that their political decision not to buy coal from Australia, has had a severe impact on their power grid, and their "green systems" cannot reliably fill the gap. Once again, there is a difference between "energy storage" and "energy generation" one just requires a "container" and the other a "physical or mechanical process."

[@jxmai7687]

You are so wrong about power blackouts was related to Aussies coal, It was because Chinese electric consumption is over the planning limit of pollution. China have lots coal mine was closed for reserve, Australia's coal import ratio is only 2%, nothing to do with China's temporary power shortages. do you know how many nuclear power plant were building and how high the voltage of super power line in China, and all the power infrastructures planning for the future.

[@lengould9262]

Disagree. Opinions don't necessarily match facts .

[@mxr572]

new rules for new order in USA a must.

[@moodberry]

Well, if you are talking pure pragmatism, then yes, China has an edge. But how do you place a "pragmatic score" on things like human rights and freedom? In essence, living in China or under the Chinese system makes you trade your personal freedoms and rights for just functional stuff. For me and millions of others, this right to believe and think as you wish is more valuable than the things I might be able to own. If china recognized this basic principle, then I could get on board with the China systems of government and finance. The question then for every thinking person is "What do you value the most"?

[@Rex-ww4cw]

Most Asian country aren't as obsessed with "freedom" than the west. They're willing to take some of it's freedom for safety and accessibility.

[@bobjackson4720]

Nuclear is the most "Green" form of power generation. Far more Green the wind power.

[@bobdeverell]

Interesting video. However, with foreseen innovations, nuclear is likely to displace solar and wind by the 2nd half of this century. We must prepare for the long term as well as the short.

[@electricviking]

Nuclear is far more expensive than renewables. Further cost declines in renewables will make them the only logical option.

[@smde1]

The likelihood that I will ever spend another dime on anything made in China is dwindling to 0.

[@stuartburns8657]

That's a bold statement. Remember to look at any future electronic good you attempt to purchase in the future ;)

[@jxmai7687]

so typical.

[@baronvonlimbourgh1716]

Have fun living the minimalist lifestyle