The Investigative Judgment & The Everlasting Gospel - Part 1

2017-12-27
For the very first time ever on IRON SHARPENS IRON Radio:
Dr. Desmond Ford, world renowned theologian & scholar, & former Seventh-day Adventist, who will address:
“SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTISM:
The INVESTIGATIVE JUDGMENT & The EVERLASTING GOSPEL”!!

[@scottklusendorf5756]

Desmond Ford (rightly) destroys traditional Adventism. After watching this interview, watch him address Adventists in this presentation at Loma Linda University in 2008--in front of the very denomination that tossed him for preaching a biblical gospel in 1980. Not flashy, but wow. Stay with the presentation and see what happens at the end. Ford has Two Ph.Ds, one under F.F. Bruce at the University of Manchester. I disagree with him on soul sleep, but he's a force for good who brought gospel truth to millions of Adventists. kzbin.info/www/bejne/gqvFiZh_q5irkM0

[@c19comandante57]

For your information ford had been DEBUNK since his started his craziness . books have been written where ford is debunk over and over.

[@rayray4192]

@@c19comandante57 liar. Judaizer dog liar.

[@ronwaldoreyes2162]

I will always fight with SDA ,but not for EGW nor PAUL who endoctrinated that there is no more LAW ,SABBATH ,UNCLEAN FOOD ...we all focus in the gospel of Jesus...

[@peppernbo]

i dont have a phd but ican tell hes a false teacher

[@hadavisjr]

@@peppernbo And yet, you've provided no examples to why you disagree. In fact, the burden of proof lies with you to show the veracity of the Investigative Judgment, Ellen White, and the idea of historicism.

[@LifeWithClaironLoveB]

Thank you Dr Ford. God Elohim has used you to confirm my confusion with the SDA doctrines

[@EndzeitreporterMcM]

Great Man. RIP with God

[@bop-ya-good]

Desmond was ignorant of the dispensation of Grace. Blinded by the religious sect he followed all those years. Merely touching the surface of sda Heresies. Yet after all that had a grasp of the blood atonement for our sins, so there is that.

[@drtichy]

Amazing person, Dr. Ford is one of the finest human beings that I ever met. Not only a great theologian, but an honest one!...

[@opportunix]

I guess we will find out whether he is all you say he is when the lord comes, don't you agree

[@villain2374]

@@opportunix This mans was sent By God

[@alongcamejones309]

​@@opportunixA far far superior scholar than EGW or W. Miller

[@SolaScriptura21]

I have desired for years now for more to reach out to adventists and have them believe in the truth and reject the lies.

[@ronwaldoreyes2162]

SDA IS THE ONLY RELIGION ON EARTH that teaches sabbath ...LAWS ..Jesus is coming ..unclean food..the rest of the religion has no more of these ,if they do they select only the one good for them...EGW has its flows same with our bible from NIV,ESV ,ASV ...and also PAUL has so many flows ,he is the author of no more Laws ..all food are clean ..no more special day all days are accepted to God...

[@eugeniamartin712]

One of the saddest evidences & therefore consequences of abusing a human spiritual writer is how she was used to whip & beat the minds & hearts of SDA children & adults. She was often used to shame & guilt anyone who dared use their critical thinking skills to ask questions or think differently. The psychological-spiritual abuse from an idol before Jesus Christ has left its toll on those who finally left. All churches face this idolatry of their founding theologians, not just SDAs. We all must keep our eyes on Jesus alone & continue growing til our last breath on this earth. Nobody knows it all, there's just NEVER enough time to exhaust the Only Word of Life, The Vine from which we take our IVs 24/7. Father, have mercy AND humor on us all 💘wherever we are on that staircase/ladder, which is Jesus, on our way up...☝

[@aar0n709]

YOU SAID IT ALL!!! She abused us with her false prophethood

[@eblanco2176]

There is one issue with Desmond Ford, his blind support of EGW. She spoke out of both sides of her mouth. That is why there are so many arguments among SDA on subjects. Because you can find statements to support both sides of a subject in her writings. She plagiarized most of her writings, not passing the test of a prophet as in Jer 23: 30, 31. SDAs were not trinitarians, and it's a lie that means it denies the deity of Christ. Jesus IS the only Begotten Son of the one true God. A being can only bring forth a being after his kind. God gave us plenty of lessons in nature to understand that. God sent His Son, so that he can reveal his Father. God wants us to know him, He is not a mystery.

[@TrenaGraceDillo]

I tell you my friend investigative judgement is bible pls study carefully Daniel 7

[@stratocaster1992]

Can anyone please give me the referrence where Ellen White sad that we cannot keep the law perfectly since we are fallen?

[@lubindanamukolo4265]

For those who have followed this guy. What denomination did he join after his findings?

[@c19comandante57]

Clifford Goldstein -Debunking desmond ford, In his book.... 1844 made simple.

[@rayray4192]

A useless rag spouting Adventist lies.

[@eduardogutierrez7758]

When my brethren go to extremes, it reacts on me, and I have to bear the reproach of being called a false prophet. . . . {RH, July 5, 1906 par. 15}

[@bop-ya-good]

The law increases sin! Faith has come and law is out. Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. Grace defeats sin not law...law kills.... Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace

[@peppernbo]

can you have grace without law. if so explain

[@bop-ya-good]

@@peppernbo You exist in the dispensation of Grace. You do not use law! Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. This will apparently be a revelation for you. You are saved by Grace apart from works of the law...fact. Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

[@peppernbo]

@@bop-ya-good true. as long as your obeying god your not under the penalty of the law. grace is what sustains you from disobeying, but when you do fall because of human nature grace of god will also forgive you when you repent of the sin--simple

[@bop-ya-good]

@@peppernbo hi...not true. You are not under law. Grace does not rely on obedience. This is a lie that destroys the gospel. How can a law judge you that you are not led by, do not follow and are told to be dead to. Saying you are not under a law unless you break the law you are not under is a nonsense perpetrated by adventism and in particular Ellen.

[@bop-ya-good]

@@peppernbo Grace does not sustain law keeping....that's a total croc. Grace is a gift.

[@eduardogutierrez7758]

When my brethren go to extremes, it reacts on me, and I have to bear the reproach of being called a false prophet. {Lt176-1903}

[@jfarrell2772]

Thank you Dr. Ford. God is with you! Please continue to speak The Truth!

[@jerrymontago844]

The title of this video focuses on the Investigative Judgment but there is little content on it. If they had stayed on subject instead of generalities I might have learned more. As is I learned nothing new.

[@courag1]

I find it interesting that "ford" is the word used to cross the Jordan into the promises of God. Those of us who have received the peace of entering in to the promises of the Lord Jesus and all He purchased and won for us on the cross and His finished work, share this experience of Joy. When you understand the height and width and depth of this salvation, there is such peace and joy. There is no one and no doctrine of any church which can pluck us out of the Savior's hands, who have this same faith as me which is biblical faith, it was what is taught in the Gospel of John. He wrote his gospel so that we who believe would have this assurance of salvation. The true Gospel has all the best arguments to defeat the false teaching in Adventism, but unless one as an Adventist, places Adventism on the altar before Jesus, then these who have received another savior (though there is none) which Adventism is which is to find another way to heaven and go around Jesus, to establish a righteousness of their own, well I cannot accept this either! The One who saved me, I trust to the uttermost and in the knowledge of the extent of my salvation in Jesus, I find such joy and acceptance and assurance of Salvation that my Lord will never leave me nor forsake me. I will never know the agony of separation from God which Jesus faced for me and overcame. To do what our Savior Jesus did, He is GOD! So with St. Thomas I cry out: "My Lord and my GOD!" This is bigger than any doctrine of the SDA church which I actually loved, but I love Jesus more than anything even if it means disfellowship because I cannot ever accept that the scapegoat is Satan for Jesus is my sin bearer and it is an honor that He saved me. I cannot be thankful for one instant to Satan who would do nothing for me but attack me. My sister was into the occult and knowing the animosity of the evil one who she adored, and the manifestations I faced but overcame in Jesus which also threatened the very lives of my family. I know what is good and I know what is evil. Jesus is absolute truth and goodness. We were judged already on the cross because sin was totally judged on the cross. The problem is that God is outside of time for Jesus was the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world. If you do not understand that, there is so much which does not make sense. God is all knowledge at all times so with that capacity, He knows everything we will ever do and has already put all that under the blood of Christ who have accepted Jesus and believed in Him. So the benefit now is that there is such joy that is indescribable and incomparable. We are ALREADY SEATED WITH JESUS CHRIST! This was the testimony of St. Paul, in one of his out of the body visits to heaven, he must have seen others who he knew were yet in their fleshly bodies, in heaven and he was there. We who believe though we die yet shall we live and we go to be with Jesus our Lord immediately when we are out of the body albeit a near death or a death experience of death itself. There is nothing better in Adventism as to live a life without joy is not a blessing, it is like dragging your feet in manacles of lead. I have joy and have had such experiences of the presence of my Lord and it is all JOY.

[@solangesmusic.1877]

courag1 Amen!! I have had a very similar experience as you have, but coming out from Mormonism to a redeeming faith in Christ Jesus by and through His blood, which has paid my debt to God in full, forever, made me righteous and a daughter of God. The greatest spiritual danger which leads to condemnation before God, is to diminish the redemptive work of Christ by teaching added human effort/works. It is equivalent to spitting on Jesus’ face while He was still hanging on the Cross. Thank you for your comment. May the Lord continue to bless you and yours.

[@courag1]

@@solangesmusic.1877 So glad you know Jesus Christ and may all His blessings be daily manifest in your life for your steadfastness to Him.

[@eugeniamartin712]

The bitterness & sarcasm of former members shows the loss of an entity or person they once idolized in an unhealthy form. If Adventists' faith & assurance is based on anything or AnyOne than Jesus, they will always be disappointed that their "god/gods"/idols/dogma fail. Christians, SDAs are guilty, too, of idolatry/idolizing persons or unsubstantiated lists of beliefs/dogma, and even a DENOMINATION (as assurance) that are contrary to The Only Word of Life.

[@Mizz_JON]

You are choosing to blame victims of deliberate and systematic mind control, accusing us of idolatry when you know it's not as simple as that. Many of us were indoctrinated with this heresy from infancy. It's not that we chose to idolize anyone, we had no choice; we were taught heresy, raised in it and conditioned to think a certain way. Only through the Grace of God did I stumble into the truth and leave the SDA church for good.

[@ilijaprskalo1823]

Dr and master,turn the bible

[@krisellis6384]

A time gone by..the first day of the week was ...Saturday.... Second.........Sunday.... Third............Monday.... Fourth..........Tuesday...... Fifth..............Wednesday...... Sixth............Thursday........ Seventh.........Last day.....Friday ,...........frige.s day.....all the days were named after gods at the time CONSTANTENE...DID...NOT ... Change. Saturday to Sunday... He swapped the columns around And put Sunday first...cause he was a SUN worshiper and needed Sunday for his Pagan Papacy Easter....in 325..AD...where and why Saturday ended up as it done is another story.....

[@solomonpersaud4223]

EGW didn't call herself a prophet but she saw herself above it stating that she's the messenger of God and her work includes that of much more than a prophet.

[@c19comandante57]

Your point again ?

[@solomonpersaud4223]

@@c19comandante57 false sense of humility

[@c19comandante57]

@@solomonpersaud4223 -Just answer the question.

[@solomonpersaud4223]

@@c19comandante57 I did she has a false sense of humility

[@c19comandante57]

@@solomonpersaud4223 -The testimony of people who met her contradicts your opinion.

[@mirriwinni]

Does anyone know where we can find this hymn that IRON SHARPENS IRON radio, mentions? "Run, John, run, the law commands, Yet finds me neither feet nor hands; But sweeter news the gospel brings, It bids me fly, and lends me wings."

[@eduardogutierrez7758]

That is not correct. Claimed is different called (said). Every conceivable message is coming to counterfeit the work of God, and always bearing the inscription of truth upon its banner, and those who are prepared for anything new and sensational will handle these things in such a manner that our enemies will charge all that is inconsistent and overdone upon Mrs. E. G. White, the prophetess, and my way will be hedged up. {Lt66-1894}

[@beverleybrangman2191]

I believe it is essential for believers to believe in the scriptures alone for our beliefs. I reject teachings which are not supported by scripture alone. I also reject doctrines which makes humans perfect , and infallible. We cannot exalt ourselves to a place of judge for any human nor should we make idols of any writer. It is essential to get the central message of the scriptures, and get right with God with a humble spirit and following the Holy Spirit guidance. We are not perfect, and must be humble enough to be open to correction and avoid making idols of prophets and doctrines. Great video

[@SamSups]

Can anyone tell us why it took so long for Dr.Ford to dismiss the IJ fallacy while being that educated in Christian Theology?

[@Jamie-Russell-CME]

Do you love him because of who he is? He may be more Adventist than you realize.

[@eugeniamartin712]

All prophets, patriarchs & notable persons in the Bible, as well as Reformers & theologians afterward, have progressive theology. We all start out as babes & kids in faith, as did all persons in the Bible, but we continue growing in grace. If I stake my beliefs on what I thought when I was 3, 5, 8, 12, 21 or before kids, I would be disappointed in myself. Mrs White was human, human, human. She grew in grace & aha's, especially after 1888. I don't like reading anything she wrote before that. Her five books written after 1888 recognize Christ Our Righteousness, aka the gospel assurance. Praise God that He loves us 1000% in all stages of our lives, beliefs, errors & levels of faith, hope & love!! 💘

[@bop-ya-good]

Righteousness is some thing the Adventist seeks and once obtained can lose by one unconfessed sin. This is the nightmarish reality of the sevy who really dont know the gospel that saves as they are but one thought or action away from removal from the book of life!

[@henryfirus6856]

Greetings Dr Ford, if i could suggest a more effective way to remove the need for "investigative judgement" in our SDA theology, in my opinion the best way is to reformulate typology in Leviticus 16:5. It is possible, based on Hebrew wording of the text, to assign the symbolism of "two kids of the goats" to Esau and Jakob, and the "ram' to Isaac. This typology has the imprimatur of Ellen White in her "Unusual Statement on the scapegoat', also has wide ranging implications for mission of the Christian Church in the 21 century. Be happy to provide proofs for the above.

[@beckyshock3099]

I asked several SDA's for information on the 1888 discourse, and no body could tell me what it was. That was the ONLY message that they couldn't show me. And I left.

[@fleetwd1]

I am very pleased to see the quality of this recording. Thank You Phil for doing such a wonderful job of it.

[@sonyalum1027]

Yes the name Egw is in the Baptist certificate

[@susangiglio3115]

I also read Ellen White said abstain from meat so as not to have animal instincts. I think she hated sex.

[@rayray4192]

Ellen White was a psychological train wreck. Raised in a very strict Methodist home with Puritan roots, Ellen had a terrible view of the character of God. She was kicked out of the Chestnut street Methodist church in in Portland Maine along with her twin sister and her parents because they refused to shut up about the end of the world and the ranting of false prophet William Miller. Ellen proclaimed masturbation causes leprosy. She was not a doctor. Ellen was a megalomaniac starved for attention. She married a life king Arian who was a pastor in the Christian Connection which was an Arian sect. Ellen was not a Christian. She along with her Arian husband were grifters who sold copies of her visions at camp meetings and through the mail. Her visions and visits from angels were imaginary and proof she was mentally ill and a heretic.

[@bop-ya-good]

We need the risen Christ not Israel's law. The covenant ten commandments demanded doing of the law. The law is a curse to those who try to keep it. Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, Christ redeems us from the curse of the law and replaces law keeping with spirit leading. Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

[@peppernbo]

its not israel law, its gods. your under the curse of the law if your not a christian. christians put on the armor of christ and love to do thy law because its written in their hearts. under the law means your under the condemnation of it because your breaking it. you got to ask gods forgiving grace. only the grace of god can you keep his laws not on your own power.

[@bop-ya-good]

@@peppernbo hey mate. The covenant ten commandments is a contract between god and Israel alone...Fact...not a gentile in sight.

[@peppernbo]

@@bop-ya-good well god chose them because of Abraham. abraham was godly man. there was no others really. but everything was given to the to develop them into the people god wanted. they were to use their knowledge and spread to the world about god and salvation. salvation comes through the jews. so its not just for the jews but the world. god is a fair god.

[@bop-ya-good]

@@peppernbo not exactly mate. You live in the dispensation of grace. Abraham did not. Moses did not. You are neither jew or Greek.....Abraham and moses couldn't say that.

[@peppernbo]

@@bop-ya-good Noah found grace in the eyes of the lord. grace has always been here. it just was more present when jesus came

[@semperfitdeliis]

This is beautiful

[@jeanneprusak1031]

What a loss to the church.

[@457christiaan]

We need all to dig for truth by ourselves first hand wit God I think is the best

[@jtumewu]

God bless you Dr.Ford

[@lujo1up]

Dittos to Desmond Ford. Justification by faith implies forensic justification 'before" faith. How does "by" imply "before"? Because of the blood. How? As the angel Gabriel implied to Mary, at the 'union' of the newly created sperm by YHWH/Yahawah himself with the already living egg of Mary, when Mary would "conceive in the womb" (after ovulation while the egg is still in the fallopian tube), 'justification' was accomplished by the blood 'union' (i.e. BEFORE faith) by the creator himself the nanosecond that the creator and the creation become 'one' physically in the 'union' of the XX sex cell egg of Mary and the XY sex cell sperm provided by Yahawah ex nihilo (it did not "exist" until Mary gave her permission to the angel Gabriel), and it was accomplished BEFORE the ONLY once and forever atonement -- the ONLY at-one-ment -- was applied ONLY on earth in the ONLY sprinkling of the ONLY blood on the ONLY most holy place mercy seat of the cross, BEFORE any human being expressed faith in the ONLY union of the XX egg cell and the XY sperm cell BEFORE cell division began. Art Telles

[@josephessilfie7777]

Well, well, well Des I have listened to your comments, most of them are extremely wonderful but I have a few things to say to disagree with your comments against the INVESTIGATIVE JUDGMENT and this is why, reading Leviticus chapter 16, when the SACRIFICIAL LAMB was killed the High Priest did not leave the BLOOD of the sacrificed Lamb was not left at the Altar, it was taken into the Sanctuary to officiate before God so in the same way Jesus did not left His Blood at the Altar He has to take it into the HEAVENLY TEMPLE to officiate before God and to this 1st John chapter 2: 1 testified by saying MY LITTLE CHILDREN THIS WRITE I UNTO YOU THAT YE SIN NOT BUT IF ANY MAN SIN WE HAVE AN ADVOCATE WITH THE FATHER so the question is what does an Advocate do ? If you answer AN ADVOCATE PLEADS PEOPLE'S CASE BEFORE THE JUDGE the you testified for the SEVENTH- DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH that their INVESTIGATION JUDGMENT is right, don't you? Again in Revelation chapter 11:19 it reads THE TEMPLE OF GOD WAS OPENED IN HEAVEN AND THERE WAS SEEN IN THE TEMPLE THE ARK OF HIS TESTAMENT. Moses built a copy of it when he Heaven open, Temple shown and he built the earthly according to the parton where now Jesus is pleading for Sinners so now what do you think about it? And last of all Ellen White being a PROPHET - ess ,please read Revelation chapters 12:17 ; 19 :10 ;22:8,9 and let me know what they mean to you.

[@MJ-hope]

It is so interesting how there is a great need to attacked the true gift of prophesy see Rev 19:10. Further, here are they that keep ALL the commandments of GOD not nine of them. They are called blessed Rev 22: 14. The true gift that Mrs. Ellen White was given was because people won't read the Bible. Her writings points us straight to GOD'S word. Mrs White was a prophet, and ALL of her writings are a gift to the SDA church; I am not ashamed of her. Her writings will continue to be vindicated to GOD'S glory as time continue. Reader, get the Great Controversy by E.G. White, you will understand what is happening and will happen in America until the end of time as Satan seeks to control the entire word with a false religious system. It is already happening. Mrs. E.G. White was shown long ago, that every principle of our constitution will be repudiated in the chapter : Liberty of conscience threatened. Is this not happening ?

[@josephhall2698]

There are lots of denominations apart from SDAs that keep the 7th day Sabbath.

[@janetdavidson8798]

Did you know SDA hospitals perform abortions for any reason? Remember " thou shall not kill' ? Strange coming from a people that strongly adheres to the 10 commandments !! God created those babies and SDA doctors and nurses killed them for money. IAM not Catholic but at least they hate abortion. They know it is murder. What else is the SDA trying to hide?

[@healinghumanity1782]

Why do religions that are based on ONE sacred book (Bible or Quran) the only ones that engage in disputes, hatred & wars? Is it because their religions are essentially based on beliefs of superiority rather than a humble way of living?

[@kipchorngwonektiroto457]

Investigative judgment is unbiblical.

[@SolaScriptura21]

Adventists are a hard group to reach.

[@dalelyons7786]

I am a sda member I am easy to reach

[@rickhuntling7338]

Dale Lyons Do you believe the 2300 day prophecy from 457 BC to 1844? What is a evening and a morning in Gen. 1? Is there a investgation going on looking into every wasted moment and every sin you have commited? Will you be found worthy to enter the kingdom? Do you have a confidence in your salvation? Are you saved?

[@rickhuntling7338]

Dale your a hard man to reach.

[@susanclark1152]

Yes, they are.

[@SolaScriptura21]

If you would like to defend the IJ of 1844 in a live conversation I can set that up, lord willing

[@bop-ya-good]

Jesus in the Investigative judgement is judging the believer now according to Adventists. EGW teaches this. Adventists must comply with her teaching. Ellen White taught that if even one unconfessed sin was found in the heavenly record books, the professing Christian’s name would be blotted out from the Book of Life and their eternal salvation would be forfeited. So this is the burden Adventist carry around, Grace only works till it doesnt. One has to ask how many Adventist`s at sabbath school have unconfessed sin and thus are part of the great Adventist unsaved!

[@c19comandante57]

book and page of EW book where you read that. because if you quoted from Ratlaff material. ratlaff and all his sheep have many times misquote,given wrong pages of EW books. to mislead fools. sda have documented that fact. on hos ratlaff misquote and write only part sentences of EW books. in order to mislead fools.

[@bop-ya-good]

@@c19comandante57 I state facts. Name the fact u dispute mate.

[@c19comandante57]

@@bop-ya-good -You gave a EW white quote.all i ask was name of book where that quote you quoted is found,book page number. which you did not gave. so those are not facts...mate

[@bop-ya-good]

LOL..SO YOU HAVNT READ ELLENS WORKS...they are great. “All who have ever taken upon themselves the name of Christ must pass its searching scrutiny… Sins that have not been repented of and forsaken will not be pardoned, and blotted out of the books of record, but will stand to witness against the sinner in the day of God… Words once spoken, deeds once done, can never be recalled. Angels have registered both the good and the evil. The mightiest conqueror upon the earth can not call back the record of even a single day. Our acts, our words, even our most secret motives, all have their weight in deciding our destiny for weal or woe. Though they may be forgotten by us, they will bear their testimony to justify or to condemn.” (The Great Controversy, 1940 edition, page 552) So do you have unconfessed sin at any time in your life?....The you have just participated in the GREAT SDA UNSAVED!

[@bop-ya-good]

@@c19comandante57 Love Ellen`s Law trap....."LAw is Binding" but Adventists are not under law! Adventists are saved but its presumptuous to claim you are saved..."Each way Ellen" Adventist double speak... Been listening to it all my life mate.