The Isle | Why adding apexes this year is a bad idea

In the beginning of February we received the latest the isle devblog and in there numerous dinosaur related topics were discussed, announced and showcased. 2 weeks ago I made a full on analysis of it so in case you wanna watch that first feel free to do so.
One of the most revealing points in the entire article was the announcement of the very possible introduction of apexes, 2 of them to be specific, in Evrima in the near future. I briefly commented about this before, but I believe this deserves a more detailed and thoughtful discussion, because even tho this might seem like a big positive on the surface, it has the real potential of being a very bad idea.
Hope you all enjoy the video :)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
X'Zaguer Discord Server - / discord
X'Zaguer Patreon - / xzaguer
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chapters:
Intro 0:00
Main Content 0:50
Outro 10:14
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#TheIsle #TheIsleEvrima #Evrima #gamedesign #ConceptAnalysis #GameAnalysis #XZaguer #theislenews #leveldesign #TheIslemap #gateway #pathoftitans #beastsofbermuda #gamedesign

[@peri6809]

Apexes can’t be added this year, they’re not on the roadmap!

[@rebelion-ghost2311]

the devs follow the road map? since when.

[@quicksilver9940]

The Isle always has apexes why do you think that we don't have apexes at the moment??? There is always a big bird.. Right now stego and deino Previously it was carno... How is adding something cooler and popular like the trex bad??? Instead of adding shitty dinos no one cares about...

[@troythedeconstructionist1382]

>roadmap XDDDDDDD

[@cristianolaboureur5999]

​@@quicksilver9940are you trolling?

[@quicksilver9940]

@@cristianolaboureur5999 just telling the truth

[@thecommycompy5450]

They were so focused on wether or not they could they never stopped to think if they should

[@yusufcanbaz8194]

Best comment

[@rylanbrewer3320]

Sound a lot like then

[@Anupamprime]

Game is dying ding dong

[@quicksilver9940]

Add them or let the game die give or take

[@guarddoggo]

@@quicksilver9940the games not gonna die if they dont add them, it hasnt now and likely wont in the future. Honestly, i almost dont want them to add apexes like rex, atleast not anytime soon. I just know their gonna end up like legacy and everyones going to be playing them and them only.

[@Misto_deVito6009]

Let's be frank. Even assuming all 7 dinos come out this year, it's gonna be a while before we see rex and trike. Heck they might not even come after the 7 dinos

[@No_name8374]

If they mange to get all seven playables out this year that would be the isle’s greatest accomplishment and actually prove that this team may be able to give us the game we were promised! But if they don’t and let’s say worse case scenario we only get troodon and beipi then it will be the time for people to wake up and smell the roses cause this game is never going anywhere and where wasting are time. Cause I ain’t willing to wait 3-4 more years just for wave 1 to get finished m8

[@pain002]

@@No_name8374 yeah like thats ever gonna happen!

[@No_name8374]

@@pain002 it ain’t! But if by some miracle they do then for once I’ll actually be excited for the further of this game.

[@Ambush_yt]

This aged well

[@stickmindevz]

4/7 are implemented so far and the other 3 will come out in update 7, not sure about rex and trike though, seems like trike is a bit behind, possibly 7.5, while rex is speeding through development and might even end up in update 7 if we’re lucky

[@chaoticcatartist]

I aint a game dev and im not gonna pretend i know BUT a solution i suggest is that apexes could have horrid heal. So if they ever get into a fight they would have to acctualy think about it before scrapping with the large food they need to survive. Because the fight could leave them very vulnerable even after they win. Makes em be a bit more careful when targeting something. The main problem is now the apexs wont try and go after bigger meals in fear that they would be left vulnerable. Im not sure what a solution other than make it so small teirs that cant fight back barely give them the food they need and wasteing time on them only makes the hunger bar tick. But i think that if they wanna buff apex then this could be the nurf in turn. I am mostly speaking about carnivores mostly because I dont think the herbivore playstyle would change much with this nurf

[@imbored3416]

Honestly that's a interesting idea, that I think could work. I don't think it'd solve the entire problem, however would remedy alot.

[@hplovecraftcat]

I still think that we have just too many animals to fill the same niche. What's the point in having Giganotosaurus and Acrocanthosaurus when we have Tyrannosaurus?! What's the point in having Baryonyx if we are gonna get Suchomimus?!

[@brady851]

@@hplovecraftcat A solution to that could be having different servers dedicated to different food chains

[@riprobbie851]

@@hplovecraftcat i completely agree with you on that, plus a smaller roster means the game won’t be finished in 30 years instead 25 years

[@vraptork181]

Also maybe being very hard to grow in the first place when young being slow not too powerful and slow growth also being on a lot of diets just a random idea also haven’t watched the video yet

[@crabhater9373]

I think what kissen meant was that apexes would be more powerful mechanically rather than with stats. The tailriding of legacy is almost impossible in EVRIMA, which eliminates the one huge weakness of an apex. Not only that, apexes will also have unique abilities like rex getting a head slam/grapple attack. Extensive tailoring probably means nerfs to just about anything that isn't health or damage. Poor stamina pool and regeneration, the lack of a ambush, loud walking noises, cumbersome, can't jump, can't form large packs or herds, grows slower, is more vulnerable while growing, is more likely to take damage from falls, has poor night vision, is the primary target of mercenaries/tribals/strains, needs lots of food and has a picky diet. I think it is possible to make apexes balanced. There just needs to be a lot of testing, feedback and careful consideration. Even if apexes are a power fantasy, it's fine as long as the player earns it.

[@kayamkara6138]

+111111111111111111111111111111111

[@unboundjackal]

Don't remember where I saw this but apparently according to some of the devs the majority of apexs Don't get over 40-50%, if that's true then trying to grow an apex to adult is gonna be very difficult especially since they will have very picky diets and potentially low speed and/or Stamina

[@No_name8374]

@@unboundjackal that sounds…. Rather a poor idea if I gotta be honest… I hope that ain’t true 🤞

[@unboundjackal]

@insertname4584 the part of them having very picky diets has been confirmed, not sure about the rest

[@No_name8374]

@@unboundjackal I’ll be fine with that! But god it’s already a hassle to keep your diet up with 100%!

[@StelloTyrannus]

The ONE thing I mainly am concerned with is if apexes will be so good that everyone will play them. Apexes need to have some drawbacks if they are going to be this powerful, whether it’s heal/bleed, stam, hunger drain, or something else. I don’t want any dinosaur to be “better” than another, all should have weaknesses and strengths, good and bad matchups (not just in combat). I want this huge roster the devs are planning on to encourage people to explore the diversity of options they have, not just immediately go to trex every darn time

[@No_name8374]

I think a way to discourage at least beginners from going straight to apex would be to make a skill cap where as and apex you have to fight other apexes to get your food as any tier below should be faster to escape the more powerful threat. So this will basically mean that apexes have to either kill another apex sense apexes will have around the same amount of speed so running away isn’t and option and if said apexes want to hunt lower tiers they will need to sneak up on them. This makes a skill cap where only the best players will be able to make it too adulthood and leaving no room for any noobs.

[@texbed3806]

Agreed, irl apexes have lower population compared to lower tiers. For example bear population compared to deer

[@nitroux6969]

same as legacy maybe ? super long grow times. I'm really against nerfing apexes because they are APEXES they need to be on top. they have to be best but yes with some weaknesses like for example they might be more robust and less agile, they should make it very very challenging for apexes to grow.

[@frostbitetheannunakiiceind6574]

F#CKING FACTS

[@Nestmind]

A the moment the solution with Deinos is cannibalism, let them eat eachother. I don't play Deino that often because i don't want to be scared any time i see more than 1 deino toghether and i don't like being cannibal, so i Play Carno, where i can hunt more Ai and more creatures

[@doomboi789]

Side note: Unless it has been decided otherwise, I believe Deinosuchus is also going to be properly buffed to Apex status, becoming exponentially more powerful and a truly terrifying aquatic threat. This essentially means that Deino is not only going to be off the other apexes' menus (aside from maybe Spino), but may very well put THEM on its menu, assuming they use the current Hatcheri size estimates as a basis. Regarding apexes being more powerful, I believe they mean that in terms of mechanics, rather than stats. With the new mechanics for each of the apexes, alongside the nullification of tailriding, they will definitely be considered more powerful. The stats will more than likely stay the same. Another point I'd like to address is regarding mid-tiers vs Apexes. Mid-tiers shouldn't be able to face Apexes in direct combat, it's just common sense. Would a Carnotaurus be able to kill a Triceratops IRL? No. It would get fucking bodied. Same applies here. Another comment further down in this comment section sums it up very well. This isn't a fighting game. This is a survival game. Sometimes, you need to make that fight-or-flight decision. Sometimes, your only option IS flight. Sometimes, the game needs to let you feel like prey. Mid-tiers can and may rival Apexes in large groups, sure. But when you're on your own? When you're NOT at the top of the food chain and something higher up is coming for you? You run. Mid-tiers will most certainly be able to outrun apexes in most instances, while things like Stego are most definitely well defended enough to make them think twice. Apexes will often have to resort to scavenging, therefore keeping them on their toes. You'll need to fight other Apexes for food, sometimes treating THEM as another food source. You'll need to really set up ambushes, waiting in the thick shrubbery for that unsuspecting Tenonto to walk by and try to take a bite from that nearby bush, distracting them and allowing you to get that quick burst of speed from an ambush and take them down in a few clean bites. This is the very essence of a survival game. You don't get the ability to 1v1 everything. Sometimes, you just need to know your place in the food chain.

[@adriannn1180]

Yeah about the Deino totally agree. It's a big croc, so even as big as a Trex should be scared of going to drink. I think Deino would be much better if they developed the drag/lounge mechanic even further. Implementing a thing where, if the pray is bigger than the croc (basc can't pick it up in its mouth), then they will instead go for a leg, bite around it and try to drag it into the water. This will make it better against dinos who are the same size or bigger. This would make Stego actually fear Deinos and not be as toxic and invisible as it is currently. Plus this would also ready Deino for as you say future big dinos/apexes...

[@mikeoxsmal69]

I still don’t get how deino can’t pull a stego in, if they added an aiming system to the lunge then why not make it locational? A steg head would be waaay easier to pull than it’s body

[@oscarhendry2365]

I thought of a similar idea to this. Against prey it normally wouldn’t be able to drag in, it simply latches on to a leg, holding it in place. Then, if another deino lunges it, they can slowly pull it into the water as a team effort. Of course, I think a solo deino should be able to drown something around the size of a stego, but in the right circumstances, maybe if it grabbed the right body part or something idk

[@oscarhendry2365]

Imagine a deino just dislocating a stego’s neck lol

[@mikeoxsmal69]

@@oscarhendry2365 cromch

[@kitkat5596]

I'd really would have prefer if they'd worked on something like Alberto, it was shown to be able to handle taking down Stegos in the concept so something like Stego and Diablo could be the ''apex'' of the current build while Alberto and maybe Cerato can be the apexes as well, because at least with Alberto it still risks dying if its careless while Diablo can be vulnerable to Deinos and Albertos. So that right there is a pretty balanced ecosystem while throwing in Gallie, Herrera, etc. I'm just glad they're making apexes Unofficial only because it'd throw the balance hella off, worse then it is now anyways. Also adding mud pits was a terrible idea because it'll be abused heavily by mid to large tier creatures, the wallowing on the river banks was the best idea they had because at least then it prevented people from camping which is something they were suppose to be against.

[@loserorangeorvoremonster8047]

Helped deinos have more opportunities as well

[@ShadeScarecrow]

Ceratos tiny 500kg ass will never tango with stegos. I doubt they should fight tenos or carnos cause they will just get CCd into oblivion.

[@evantreffinger2009]

I definitely agree, Acro is my favorite dinosaur but realistically it shouldn’t be included if we have so many apex. I personally would only have 2-3 Apex’s. Each having the own environmental preferences so they don’t constantly compete. I also agree Alberto would’ve been a much better choice not only to balance but to give players an idea of what to expect

[@quicksilver9940]

The Isle always has apexes why do you think that we don't have apexes at the moment??? There is always a big bird.. Right now stego and deino Previously it was carno... How is adding something cooler and popular like the trex bad??? Instead of adding shitty dinos no one cares about...

[@singingcrow439]

Another thing is the fact that with the current roster and upcoming dinos being mostly small to low mid tier in size, adding apexes might make an inbalance power difference, much like what stegos and deinos have currently. I was hoping they could have added higher mid tiers and maybe even a few semi-apexes before dropping an apex. Though to be fair, the fact that weight doesn't affect damage output in evrima like it does in legacy probably would help in the power scaling. It's minor, but it's something.

[@puttilepuffie]

Inbalance and power difference? This is not deathmatch game. Its a survival game

[@mikeoxsmal69]

@@puttilepuffie then the ecosystem should be balanced out before introducing the apexes of gateway

[@Anupamprime]

​@@mikeoxsmal69 the F you thinking??? This Is a GAME Not a real eco system... Right now everyone is running carnos , dienos and stegos... How is it different from people running trex , trikes and gigas??

[@quicksilver9940]

The Isle always has apexes why do you think that we don't have apexes at the moment??? There is always a big bird.. Right now stego and deino Previously it was carno... How is adding something cooler and popular like the trex bad??? Instead of adding shitty dinos no one cares about...

[@mikeoxsmal69]

@@Anupamprime ik that bruh, I’m just saying that we want things to be at least semi balanced and just flow neatly into the higher tier dinos

[@leopard_52]

I mean they can't really just take their sweet time either tho cuz the competition is getting better and sooner or later the isle will just be out done by the others completely. This game has been in development for a very long time and I think a lot of people are getting sick of waiting years upon years for promises to be fulfilled. Legacy is a big crutch for the isle right now and it can't survive like that forever.

[@No_name8374]

Yeahhh. And it truly does say something when one of the biggest content creators the gaming beaver who covered your game from the very beginning isn’t coming by anymore to see the latest updates and is moving on to the isles biggest competitor atm path of titans.

[@toniotrussardi8126]

@@No_name8374 and path of titans is slowly and i mean slowly growing

[@No_name8374]

@@toniotrussardi8126 path has been developing at a rapid pace compared to the isle I wouldn’t say it’s slowly growing.

[@str8dazzed]

Been a fan forever. But I can't shake this feeling of wanting it to fail now lol. A human can only take so many lies and these devs need a wake up

[@No_name8374]

@@str8dazzed yeah a good slap in the face is what the devs really need tbh. I don’t wish for the isle to fail but I think the devs need to actually take a big L that they can’t easily shrug off.

[@HashishGish]

In my opinion they should have been added from the start, such that you could tell straight away what effect they would have on the balance between creatures and how players would use them. "Begun spinning up" = 5-6 years at this pace :)

[@evantreffinger2009]

Personally I’ve got a lot of opinions on this upcoming stuff but, I think my biggest issue is that of the “upcoming releases this year” 4 of them are carnivores. Let’s be real, predator biased is a thing, it always will be because generally people enjoy hunting as a predator more than survival as a herbivore. However, it’s always been my opinion that if you have more herbivores then it’s more likely to balance itself. Encourage a more diverse ecosystem. It’s the same problem with adding so many different types of carnivores in the game. They’re gonna clash too much

[@corylance364]

Quotes from the devs. You will always need to worry about the bigger dino. Each species will have a way to survive. This is a survival game not a fighting game. Youll need to run from what you cant fight. The game is being balanced baised on survival not combat. Some dinos will need to run to survive a larger dino.

[@quicksilver9940]

Eco systems are supposed to adapt not make

[@PatchySpino]

Hi Zauger I’m a big fan of your content and love what you do!

[@kaiooo-_-1383]

It’s funny ur the only KZbin who I agree on every point of view of

[@redpandatheawsome1602]

i think apex should def not be able to be taken out by mid tier dinos but mid tier dino should at least be able to run away and survive

[@lilvalko5096]

i whole heartedly believe if they drop apex's right now the game will delv into chaos and become nigh unplayable

[@No_name8374]

Well that’s a community server problem. Not a official server problem.

[@TheRandomWolf]

They could just stunt their growth to a certain point temporarily

[@TheRandomWolf]

But then there would be no point in adding apexes when you just add allo

[@quicksilver9940]

Lmao it's the opposite... Players would join back in and Isle servers would finally get full again

[@CanadianKomodo]

Actual content is being added within the next year? I'm almost impressed. It would make me take the Isle out of my 'regrets' Steam category. Not play it, but still.

[@aeropteryx900]

They promised that. I don't believe a word coming out of their mouth.

[@spikelee5716]

@@aeropteryx900 they have already promised alot of stuff and failed

[@rowanazura]

Mid tiers or smaller Dino’s shouldn’t mess with apexes. There are various tiers for each play style and you are given the tools to survive. If someone of lower tier chooses to mess with an apex there should be a big risk of dying which is very realistic. I don’t think it should be easy to kill an apex like it was on legacy which was a joke. Lots of play styles to play in evrima where as you have plenty of prey of various sizes. I believe apexes like giga or rex will be slow enough not catch more agile lower tiers dinosaurs, therefore unless the lower tiers want to fight them there should be able to survive. Apexes should only be able to die to apexes unless it’s really bad player to lose to lower tier players. ~Azura~

[@R03stedB1Rd]

I think they should take it at a slow paste so people and the roster can get use to it, starting with the small tiers to mid tier to high mod tier then to apex to properly introduce each change.

[@NateL1992]

Having 7 new payables would boost map numbers, but in order for apexes to work on a map this big (like Gateway), they NEED to add small and medium dinosaur AI. Both carnivore and herbivore AI would greatly expand the diversity of the ecosystem, fill up the map, give players more food options and challenges, and prevent oversaturation of apexes as well as other playables.

[@dogo523]

there needs to be some sort of incentive to playing mid and small tiers, since apexes have the incentiveof just being the biggest and strongest

[@bazamere]

Yeah, I actually get to catch a premier... its been forever 😁

[@mindless5531]

Sauropods are the Answers for apexes... With those in herbivores would form big groups and move in herds... This would automatically make apexes harder to grow..

[@troythedeconstructionist1382]

Uh, of course not. Adding another powerful creature is just gonna make that type of creature harder to kill, but it won't balance shit. Adding sauropods means nothing because they'll continue to not hunt sauropods like they did before those were added. Sersiouly how does any of this make sense?

[@undary0u]

I 100% agree were still in the mid tier and that needs to be fully fedged out then sub apexs need to be fledged out then apex can be implemented

[@snow-cheirus]

The people clamoring for Apexes are the same people who whine about game development whenever possible. Chill, man.

[@warbossgrimskull6095]

lets be real, the devs have had many meetings about the playables they have chosen to implement, and they always find a way to "balance" dinosaurs. imo they have found a way to balance rex and trike in theory, but in practicality it may or may not work.

[@savooge6177]

it's been over 2 years of evrima and the game is still a unbalanced nightmare , i have no trust they can make apexes work this early

[@quicksilver9940]

The Isle always has apexes why do you think that we don't have apexes at the moment??? There is always a big bird.. Right now stego and deino Previously it was carno... How is adding something cooler and popular like the trex bad??? Instead of adding shitty dinos no one cares about...

[@mamaluigigamer99]

Okay now with 4 out of the 7 planned Dino’s released, I think they need to add more mechanics to certain growth stages of apexes once they decide to add them in. Like juvi rex can run faster and have a larger Stan pool than sub adult and adult, but be way less powerful and have to be in a different domain/ hunt different things. Juvi could hunt Dryos and possibly pachys, and subs could maybe try to team up temporarily to take down a mid tier herbivore, you get the picture

[@benanders4412]

Apexes don't have to be a problem. But they'll have to make some adjustments to the game and especially the map. Some ideas: #1 Biomes, nesting spots, escape routes and hiding places: Divide the map in different biomes. Give smaller animals enough places to escape, hide and safely nest where larger animals simply can't go or have a hard time. Borrows, caves, rock formations, dense Jungle, fallen trees, deep water, fallen trees over rivers and streams, hollow trees, small tunnels. Make it possible for some smaller species to climb trees, hop rock formations etc etc. This will work best within different biomes. Making the best nesting grounds the safest for the species. The food supply might also be adjusted per biome to give different advantages to different species. #2 Natural selection, breeding and evolution: Adjust growth time, nesting, partner selection, egg incubation time, egg numbers per nest, fertility time and reproduction in general. I would opt for a genetic up-breeding tier system where players can slowly improve stats for their offspring by breeding with the right partner and eating the right diet. Make it possible for players to inspect their partner by for example sniffing them. Or maybe a mark left behind by a player {mark territory}. This gives players long term and team orientated goals and more to do in game, creating something like a dating simulator. People will also get more long term invested into the game by doing this. These buffs should be small and take many generations and a long time to max out. Breeding the perfect specimen should be a puzzle, team effort, long term commitment and a challenge. Giving somewhat realistic evolutionary effects. And might also influence skin color etc. Example breeding Tier system: F till A tier. Starting with all E tier if spawning in without being given an egg by another player. Every tier 10 points. Every stat a separate tier/point pool. Good diet parent for [stat pool] +1 point for that stat Perfect diet parent for [stat pool] +2 point for that stat Good diet during hatchling stage [stat pool] +1 point for that stat Perfect diet during hatchling stage [stat pool] +2 point for that stat Bad diet parent for [stat pool] -1 point for that stat Horrible diet parent for [stat pool] -2 point for that stat Bad diet during hatchling stage [stat pool] -1 point for that stat Horrible diet during hatchling stage [stat pool] -2 point for that stat Inbreeding takes a huge hit on the stat pool. And might even make offspring go back into the negative or F Tier. Risk and reward: The food supply might also be adjusted to give some species an easier time within different biomes. Forcing some species to travel more and take more risks if they want better breeding stats. Or play it more safe and stay within their own nesting biome where food is plentiful but limited in it's diversity. If the differences in growth time, nesting, partner selection, egg incubation time, egg numbers per nest, fertility time and reproduction in general are big enough, there will be more players and larger groups who opt for the smaller animals/herbivores etc and will max them out much sooner. Just like in real life, there will be much more smaller animals and evolution will go faster with the fast breeding species with many offspring over the larger animals with few offspring. A clan of small herbivores might be able to have perfect stats within a couple weeks, while a clan of T-Rexes might take many months. #3 Adjust day/night times/visibility and introduce a more impactful sleep system #4 Adjust agility.

[@a3add0nplays26]

We both know they wont do shit they should have had enough money to advance into place were even more people buy the game but they didnt care enough , most people just dont want to waste 5 hours of their day without something to get from it i just recently deleted the game again

[@GEK0dev]

Gonna be real... I honestly think its fine I just want more frikin dinosaurs at this point

[@quicksilver9940]

Yess and some idiot's prevent it from happening this is a game.. Eco systems adapt they are not made..

[@Exquailibur]

I think the best way to do things is to have a bit of a rock paper scissors type situation, apexes should beat lower tier dinosaurs easier but they are large and would therefore be more vulnerable to guns and weapons from humans since they basically can't run or hide. The humans would be more vulnerable to smaller and more stealthy animals that can ambush them and would probably still be dispatched rather easily. I mean humans were able to make mammoths and all the other megafauna go extinct rather easily, but mid sized predators are still doing rather well for themselves. A tyrannosaurs would probably wreck a carno in combat, but in turn would be vulnerable to just being shot by a human and the same carno from earlier would have far easier time sneaking up on the human and probably one hitting them.

[@colinrogers9896]

personally i think apexs being added now wouldn't ruin the gameplay for mid tiers or lower but the stego population would 100% see a decrease. after a while however i feel like apexs like rex would become more rare as the only things they can reliably hunt are now all babies or can escape in the water or can just straight up out run it's ass

[@texbed3806]

Of all apexes,spino could be the best to add because you can make him so he's slow but strong. That would make so you have to fish.

[@Hueburt12]

wait deinosuchus aint concidered an apex?

[@No_name8374]

It is! I don’t know why he said otherwise but yeah deinosuchus would be considered and apex

[@quicksilver9940]

Dieno and stego are apex... There is always an apex... Previously carno was.. The guy who made this video is a Dumbass

[@DavidLed12]

I bet that when they add them they'll also buff stego and deino despite the apexs only being available on community server.

[@johnathanvillanueva1007]

Kissen says Trike and rex are going to be more powerful but... *WE ALL SAW WHAT HAPPENED WHEN DONDI HAD HIS OH SO PRECIOUS REX LOSE TO A TRIKE ON LIVE STREAM AND THEN SOON AFTER THE TRIKES GOT A SPECIAL LITTLE UPDATE..*

[@alejandrovallejo4330]

IMO. That apexes should be unkillable by solo mid tiers, that is the best course of action. As long as mid tiers can run or don’t team up in large groups to take them out, apexes should be unkillable by solo mid tiers, period. Tailriding is the worst mechanic that has ever existed in a game like the isle, it’s just idiotic. I say this as a mostly mid tier player. Mid and low tiers should NEVER be able to solo kill apexes, mid tiers should be limited to either run from apexes or team up in large groups to take them down. I would add like a damage multiplier against apexes when 4 or more mid tiers from the same species unite or something like that to make it possible for them to take apexes down. Having limitations on what you can and can’t do, does add to the fun very often. Ask yourself what is more fun to you? A game where you can kill anyone and anything by just wanting it? Or a game where you sometimes have to hide? Sometimes strategize? Sometimes maneuver? Sometimes run? To me limitations are way more engaging and having unkillable apexes for mid tiers makes mid tier gameplay way more exciting, as long as mid tiers have ways to outmaneuver apexes (which I doubt rex will be faster than any mid tier in a sheer sprint) then I love the idea of making apexes unkillable by mids and lows. This is not a brawling game after all, it’s a survival/food chain game.

[@No_name8374]

I agree with you 100%!!! Apexes are literally supposed to be the dominant force a single allo shouldn’t be able to 1v1 a Rex that’s ridiculous. And just because allo can’t 1v1 Rex doesn’t make allo unviable and Rex op. Now if and allo can’t run away from a Rex then yeah that is unbalanced and completely makes allo unviable and a redundant playable in the roster.

[@alejandrovallejo4330]

@@No_name8374 Good to know people do see my points 😁.

[@YouHaveAnIronDeficiency]

@Alejandro Vallejo "fight what you can kill, run from what you can't".

[@puttilepuffie]

Bigger doesnt mean it should be better. Dense forests and plantlife should hinder the rex and it should be punishing for apexes to spend time chasing small herbivores/carnivores

[@Aldemar250]

The sooner we would see a dino out in the wild (released in game) the better we and the devs could see how much of an impact they have and can tweak the mechanics/numbers as they go along.

[@kuitaranheatmorus9932]

This video sure perfectly answered my problems with the apexes, in short adding apexes especially ones like Trike and Rex is just a terrible idea for a current rooster Personally I just really think they should think heavily about adding said apexes for a more balanced or at least fun gameplay Overall hope yall had a great day

[@alunaticwithashotgun9840]

my toughts are that apexes will be too slow to be a problem for the rest of the roster, other than maybe stegos or deinos but then those two are the problem playables now, the rest can just run away after seeing the bus sized animals coming towards them, I can't understand why people keep forgetting that running away is an option, even in legacy if I saw an apex as an Allo I could just run away and they could do nothing about it, and since the weight system on legacy is gone in evrima even if the apexes have higher stats than they did in legacy the situation would probably be the same, if not better, for example in legacy a Rex does about 3.300 damage to Carno (not exact numbers but close) and one shots it despite Rex having 1200 damage and Carno having about 2100 health if I remember correctly. But in Evrima even if Rex higher damage, let's say 1400n (which is decent for Rex bite imo) , it can't one shot the Carno unless it bites the head. This means carno can survive a bite from a T.Rex even tho a Carno shouldn't be going anywhere near an apex. And the locational damage makes it much easier for smaller but slower animals like Stego to defend themselves too (I'm still making up numbers for Rex, these are not confirmed) let's say Rex had 1400 bite and 8800hp/weight a Stego using it's tail to attack would kill a T.Rex with 5 hits on the head, meanwhile the Rex who has 1400n bite would deal 700n because it would be biting the tail so it would need 9 bites to kill the Stego (assuming they make Stego able to swing while moving or at least while turning around so it can effectively keep it's head away from the T.Rex) and yea this means Rex only needs 3 bites to the head to kill a Stego but then if you're trying to facetank a T.Rex as a Stego and die it's just natural selection.

[@bacula8424]

Again this is some solid advice! Too bad just because you said it the Devs won't do it lol not like they could come up with this on their own anyways

[@crocsoncrocsman6273]

Adding any content at all would be a good idea

[@oilyalarm0614]

We don’t need any apexes yet, but we need some dinosaurs that complete the food-chain/cirlce-of-life, we need a dino that has stego on it’s diet and is capable of taking it down, but is on the diet of deinosuchus, we then need a dinosaur that is on that dinosaurs diet that has deinosuchus on it’s diet, this dino must also be capable of taking out deino in the water, but that does not live in water

[@daltonv5206]

if they add apexs im assuming theyll add large herbis at the same time. would balance out the power struggle. make them take a long time to grow and it'll be a challenge to play.

[@Jackthejiigga]

we need another set of secondary and tertiary in the food chain beofre apexs o make it more playable

[@No_name8374]

I’m just gonna say this now adding apexes to community servers is the most harmless thing the isle can do with releasing playables like Rex or trike. Yeah with the current roster it DEFINITELY ain’t ready for apexes especially Rex or trike. But! Official servers aren’t from what we can tell aren’t gonna be effected by this change. So while yes community servers are gonna be f@ck for a while. In the grand scheme of things it ain’t really that big of a negative and it means more playables!!

[@bazamere]

I think it will be a toggalable option for the community servers... so there might be some that allow apex and some that dont.... kinda a bit cheap of the devs to foist the responsibility of testing their apexes onto the community if you ask me though

[@No_name8374]

Yeahhh. But once again better than officials! If it was officials then adding apexes would be f@cked but they ain’t! This is probably the most nicest thing the devs are doing for us and I think just having the option to play as apexes this early on without having to wait literal years just for the devs to finish wave 1 of small tiers is great!

[@quicksilver9940]

F Off. I rather play as rex or trike then some stupid ass Dino

[@johncarlodimaano7235]

You know when listening to your vids,you have a good point the devs should think twice before working on or releasing the apexes ,if one apex is too powerful to take on another apex it would make the game frustrating when low and mid tiers are growing,the only way for apexes to be balance is to give each of them strength and weaknesses ,they should be focusing all of the low tiers first and if all of them are done,then they can move on to the mid tiers after all of them are done,then they can move on to the large tiers and the apex.

[@Sean36745able]

I knew they were going to buff up the Rex's weight/health but bite no way, it's was powerful enough in legacy, and should be no more than deino's

[@Anupamprime]

Also remember the isle development is slower then a snail. So i absolutely don't believe that they will add apexes this year... But if they did.. Then boi the isle evrima would become FIRE 🔥 So cool

[@Nezul]

I WAAAASSSS going to try loading this game up again, but I'll wait to see how this shit pans out before I even try running the game again.

[@zachcook3907]

I mean there are a few ways they could balance apexes even with only smaller tier dinosaurs in the game, maybe making them much more susceptible to injuries or even making some injuries a permanent debuff to the dinosaur.

[@multidavid7473]

Well, the addition of apexes isn't entirely bad. Each Apex's growth stage is essentially 3 different animals, so you'd be getting 3, if only slightly different, playstyles per apex added. And while growing, these animals are nowhere near as strong as their full adults. The restriction of apexes to Unofficials is also a boon, as it makes them more easily balanced since the developers care less about them, which would allow the QA team, which handles balance, more leeway on what to do with them as long as it maintains their core identity.

[@Mislytely]

So I have a question. Are Carno and Cera mid tiers? This is an interesting question because they certainly don’t have enough health to be called mid. Like 2000+kg should be mid. Also I have an issue with the devs. They don’t want to add Apexes to the officials cause they think it will brake gameplay or something, but Now they still have a fucking unkillable Stego,who is just not balanced at all. I mean Stego and deino are surely apexes. No one can kill them, unless they want to. And so? What is wrong with the devs? Isn’t it what the wanted to prevent

[@conanthelibrarian5139]

They need to get more mid-tiers out! Then build off of. Apexes should be able to hunt Mid-tiers, but typically not low-tiers as in my mind low-tier would be to fast or nimble for Apexes to hunt. Thus building off a food chain. Really good mid-tiers could hunt Apexes in packs, like really good low-tiers should be able to hunt Mids in packs. Releasing a bunch of Apexes without a base of the pyramid to build off of can lead to a bunch of unbalanced issues.

[@yanisbenzine4173]

“Near future” lmaoo

[@hunkeygamer247]

Rex is a canni sooooooo that means it’s a stego killing land deino basically

[@thenerdbeast7375]

Not to mention I can see people hunting apexes out of spite while they are still small. Think growing a Rex from scratch in Legacy was rough? Wait until Pteras start leading Utah hit squads after them. While this might allow the community to balance out Apexes so that they are incredibly rare on servers, it is still promoting toxic gameplay as it is unfair to the Rex player and you know that Rex player will bully the entire server if it manages to make it, taking out all that anger on everyone else.

[@troythedeconstructionist1382]

Man, just balance the game so rexes aren't invincible once they grow. And get rid of growth while you're at it because it's just an empty waste of time, the game doesn't even start until you're actually the dinosaur you want to be, everything before it just bushcamping.

[@Mydielle]

I totally agree with you about apexes and that was my biggest fear on the new evrima branch that they will f*k up the balancing. I am afraid they did not learn a thing from legacy being overpopulated by apexes because they were the fittest way to survive in the game. They weren't neither the funnier experience, fat and slow, very demandful in time and meat. I was hoping that with evrima, they were given tools as they mentionned for their concepts of dino creation that help them survive, not destroying an entire server population. The post from KissenKitten is really making me doubting that and i hope that i am wrong enough. That they will be introduced as smartly as possible. I agree that as apexes, their only fears should be other apexes BUT as something balanced maybe it would be fair that midtier having ways to escape from them. I think (in fact i hope) it will be possible with the new Gateway map, as they mentionned they leveled up the level design of the map. I even may think that a 24hours or a 48h timer after passing 50% of growth should be interesting to not let the population of apexes overflow. I don't know. But my main fear and question about apexes is the same as when i quitted legacy for evrima : "Why playing a midtier dinosaur and having less chance to survive than an apex?" If the devs don't have the answer, then i am afraid that evrima will be a legacy bis...

[@matthewbadger8685]

a major problem with the isle is the number of large therapods that survive until adulthood, leading to the servers consisting of battle royales between giant kaijus, rather than a more realistic sustainable ecosystem. When 90% of the predators are hunting other predators exclusively, you know that something about the game is not working.

[@aeropteryx900]

I don't agree that apexes should ONLY fear other apexes. Every predator in existence has always been careful when facing prey. Tigers tend to avoid Sloth Bears in India despite the massive difference in power, because they can get hurt and don't want that. Lone elephants are usually scared of hippos, sometimes even crocodiles or lions. A T-Rex drinking in a lake full of Suchomimus should NOT feel safe, that 1) makes no sense realistically, 2) is never fun for the Sucho player.

[@zeal2814]

"Ankys wont give a F**K"🤣

[@LayzieNL]

I can't wait to play with one of them in about 2 years.

[@PestilentAllosaurus]

That's really generous. I'm honestly thinking 4-5 years.

[@mikeoxsmal69]

G they will prob have troo and penguin out this December

[@v.i.pflame7607]

Adding apexes seemed like a last addition, like after every dinosaur was added then they would just drop every apex at once at the very end, adding them when they said feels less like it'll be somewhat able to work and more like dropping a lion into a playground.

[@buckledben]

Afterthought has no afterthought, how ironic. For real though, these devs have absolutely no solid development plan.

[@ShadeScarecrow]

I don´t think that theres any implication that they will be unbeatable. They really only said that they will be stronger than their legacy counterpart, which honestly is bound to happen just due to the changes in movement and abilitys in evrima. Even if their stats remain similar or get lowered, that would still make them stronger. All evrima dinosaurs are stronger than their legacy counterpart, because they can do a lot more than assride while spamming lmb. And they certainly didn´t say that midtiers won´t be able to survive at all, even when choosing to flee. Thats honestly a really weird and contrived conclusion on your part. Aside from that I hardly doubt we will see them this year, and even if we do they will be only on specific community servers. So you never even have to see them if you dont want to. Also, from a developer point of view it makes sense to introduce them somewhat soon-ish. I don´t even want to know how often they hear "when trex evrima?" on a daily basis from their community. This also gives them the opportunity to start balancing them around evrima combat with the data they could potentially gain from people playing them. All in all I´m not worried. I´ll kill the growing apexes and if they really get to full adult ill still try or just run tf away. Not an issue at all. I mean, currently stego is near unbeatable. Carnos sure as hell cant do it, omnis maybe could but their pounce is completely useless garbage atm, and even our resident 8 ton alligators cant do shit about stegos. At the same time they are mostly a non issue cause they are slower than everything that is smaller, and I´m fairly certain speed and stamina will be bad for or apexes compared to smaller tiers.

[@yoshikagekira726]

Even if the devs wanted them this year we all know they wouldn’t have happened anyway

[@darkeather2]

I'm new, so maybe I just haven't seen the full picture yet, but it seems like theres already a problem with an overwhelming number of players playing mostly Deinos and Stegos, as they seem to be the most powerful options right now. I personally believe there needs to be more lesser dinosaurs that offer unique ways of countering those two that's not just "I'm tankier and have a stronger attack than you." If the devs can't solve that problem, introducing apexes will just make the problem even worse, as those players will just swap to the bigger dinosaurs. These poison, grapple, climbing, and other non-damage mechanics with the current upcoming dinos are a great step in the right direction, but the apex content should really be put on hold until we see how that pans out in practice.

[@McChickenIsNotReal]

There to scared that a decent cera pack could destroy a new isle player who picked Rex and who doesn’t have a balance diet.

[@Forestguardian]

I'm kind of half and half about power levels with these apexes. On one hand I agree that they're already plenty powerful however on the other hand absolute power is kind of the point with Apexes, they're the largest animals around, mid tier animals shouldn't even be considering getting in their way if they want to live. It's certainly too early for them to be added for sure but I'm a bit on the fence when It comes to power because i mean it makes perfect sense that the Bite of a T rex would one shot most animals, That's its whole deal.

[@troythedeconstructionist1382]

That's dumb. You're just adding a class that's objectively better than everything else. Also T.rex bite is overated, an acro sized carnivore is already on that level of one shoting nearly everything. Rex is just overkill and the biteforce would only be relevant if it got a good grip on its prey.

[@Forestguardian]

@troythedeconstructionist1382 the power of a T Rex's bite force is definitely difficult to portray combat wise in game since any bite from a massive therapod would instantly kill anything smaller than a Tenontosaurus. In reality One bite is all a T rex would likely need to kill its prey whether it's a Small Raptor or a Triceratops. Problem is its a lot easier to land a hit on a Triceratops in a game than it likely was in Real life so they can't make it accurate that way either. Only way they can really portray its incredible bite force is some kind of Crushing chomp when something small Is already in its mouth. It would be pretty cool to see a Massive Rex pick up something Teno Sized and just Obliterate it in its mouth.

[@ljsecret1543]

I still don’t understand why they are putting these really small dinosaurs in before more mid tiers

[@quicksilver9940]

Also Remember Eco systems adapts they aren't created...

[@dinometta]

"ankys wouldn't give an f" I cackled

[@EdmundiumHitting]

Crazy how their just skipping mid-high tiers, and going straight to Rex and trike. Bad move

[@nuolis]

about food sources=you can always be scavenger

[@No_name8374]

Yes but being a scavenger comes with it draw backs. If the meal isn’t worth securing then that time wasted stealing a meal could’ve been spent on hunting. And not every corpse is still gonna be fresh some corpses could already be rotten by the time you get to them.

[@livingonearth8976]

I just want to play apex god damnit 🥺

[@Adam-qk5tt]

we need alllos, suchos, and many others mid size predators 1st, trex and trike would be nice but that would be overpowered for a current state of the game :)

[@mikeoxsmal69]

The only viable prey for Rex would be steg, and even then that thing is no pushover

[@fived9424]

in the benining

[@AnimeRyker2001]

Why arent Stegos Apex Teir? same as Deino. Deino is currently the largest creature, and Stegos are about the same size as Trikes.

[@quicksilver9940]

The creator of this vid has 0 brain cells

[@eliottwitt149]

00:00 In the bininging.....

[@quicksilver9940]

Some idiots here treat the isle as a real ECO SYSTEM Its a Game in the First place.. There is always an apex predator in any isle version... Right now its deino and stego.. Previously it was carno... There is always a big bird... So how is adding something like the trex any different???

[@ayooooooooooooooooo]

cmon to think the devs will even add anything this year worthy of the time its been in the works for is a waste of energy

[@roguetheoutlander8800]

1:03 nice, so Rex is going to broken all over again😒

[@iwonder1893]

I believe Rex is going to be slower but definitely still have its powerful bite, so don’t be surprised if it could one or two shot half the Dino’s in the game or apply major bb😭 I think that what Rex is supposed to be though, a powerful force but to be slow and sluggish

[@quicksilver9940]

The tuck? Who do you think trex was irl? It was called Tyrant lizard for something bruh

[@Kio_vidz]

I think putting apexes only to comunity servers just to see how they fit in game is good idea, as we will be able to play our so awaited apexes but still we won't meet megapacks of rex.

[@quicksilver9940]

Offical serves:- 0 players Community server:- 100% players

[@Kio_vidz]

@@quicksilver9940 nah, most people gonna cr to get their mixpacking carno klled by justice rex.

[@quicksilver9940]

@@Kio_vidz haha yesss... They deserve to be stopped by Tyranosauras prime

[@EcoHuron]

This year.... yea ☠

[@akospozsgai1706]

I would not agree whit the part where you said: apexes already enough powerfull. Why not? Becasue trike in legacy is nothing compared to what it was before......

[@evestargaze1091]

I'm a bit worried with how many players are playing the Dino you are. Wish we had Dino ai to interact with and not just to hunt, maybe a follow the leader for herbs and carnivores at the least.

[@mikeoxsmal69]

I’m just worried that gateway is an even bigger map, all that does is lower the amount of player interaction. And that is already extremely low in current evrima. They rlly need Dino Ai for gateway

[@quicksilver9940]

They are making map smaller and adding more dinos that's a win

[@nNobunaga]

imo an adult apex should be almost unkillable it should be getting to adult that is really hard you can hardly be called an apex if a mid tier can kill you

[@legakattack4771]

My fellow I will bet my bottom dollar they are not dropping apexes this year

[@mikeoxsmal69]

My fellow I will bet my bottom that we won’t even see cera this year

[@legakattack4771]

@@mikeoxsmal69 indubitably! In fact, Im privy to gamble that we won't get a single dino this year, and if we do, it will be in August, September, or otherwise fall or the last day of December!

[@mikeoxsmal69]

@@legakattack4771 I’m still thinking of some random bloke saying “indubitably” in the trap

[@tdwwolf6107]

I don’t like the idea of an apex being un killable, I just think they should be harder to kill. If an apex can beat anything and never be beaten, than why would anyone play as anything other than an apex?

[@troythedeconstructionist1382]

Tell that to dindo

[@spikelee5716]

I cannot understand, people keep paying for something (barely) half finished and broken, for years ago and for years to come but yet, they keep dreaming and asking for more 😅

[@jkmattpcolorado1970]

It's only bad if you're a stego player

[@Vampshroom420]

Why is everyone pretending deino isnt an apex lmao. Things ganna be able to yoink rexes

[@nikolajilic2479]

before i watch the video my guess is no competition or not enough food edit: i was dead wrong lmao

[@paulprasek1475]

Well, the no competition part was kinda correct

[@mikkelmoland9571]

8:36 WHAT? They’re downsizing dibble?? Wtf is that crap

[@themanman4376]

Downsize ≠ downgrade

[@l4dhuntel]

The Apexes are not gonna be stronger then the Legacy counterpart in terms of stats. They are gonna be stronger in terms of gameplay mechanics. such as bite over the neck of its prey and hold it down, stagger or knock down prey with its head swings etc. that makes them stronger. Trike will pretty much be the counter to the Rex unless they add the other attack to Stego that is more suited for taking down Apexes. idk how the Apexes will be when we are able to play as them. You probably need to be on active hunting as the Rex in order to survive

[@gabrielionta27]

Esse game só enrola o jogador, demora 4 anos pra fazer uma atualização , o jogador espera igual trouxa.

[@samuelwall4750]

so i do agree that they are a little too strong. But the thing is that's how it probably should be, this is a survival game and hunting isn't supposed to be balanced. In hunting the prey isn't supposed to be able to fight back very well. While i do agree that they are a bit too strong because they're buffing past legacy. A small pack of good Utah's should be able to take down a rex.

[@No_name8374]

So apexes they are apexes.. they are intended to be the dominant force above all others that’s the whole point. I don’t believe mid tier’s should be able to fight a apex at least not alone. It isn’t unbalanced if and allo can’t fight a Rex. That’s just by design sense Rex is the most powerful land creature besides sauropods to ever exist. It becomes unbalanced if said allo cannot run away. That’s when there is a balance issue and allo has become completely redundant and unviable. To solve the apex problem apexes should be forced to fight other apexes to get a reliable source of food that can’t run away and if apexes want to hunt smaller tiers they need to rely on stealth which make a skill gap if you want to play as and apex and which will make it where only skilled players will be able to grow to adulthood and leaving no room for any noobs. And you can’t get mad cause the people who made it to adulthood they’ve earn that!

[@lythough7749]

'Rex is the most powerful land creature besides Sauropods' not really lol but a good comment

[@No_name8374]

@@lythough7749 well I mean by raw strength due to Rex having the most powerful bite force apart from maybe deino. But yeah I know trike anky and a few others I didn’t mention but I just wanted to simplify it and not just start listing off every powerful land creature known to man lol!

[@bruhblint6890]

you really think they gonna be adding apex's this year? itd be a miracle if they added apexs in three years from now

[@kyliemoore9013]

At this point the isle is turning in ark pvp. Nothing but apex predators.

[@nathanfourie5128]

I agree with you apexs would be a bad idea but a buff to Giga I wouldn't mind he really needs one