The Joker Complex

Is the Joker an anarchist or a nihilist?
Is the Batman an authoritative fascist?
The Yin and Yang of our world today is reflected in the relationship between the Joker and Batman.
It is also a reflection of the constant internal struggle within ourselves between the forces of darkness and light.
Here is the best explanation I can find. A great documentary and take on this issue.
Enjoy.

[@raquelconcepcion6531]

Does anyone else think that The Joker might be the most complex of any villain in comic history.

[@shafiendd]

oh he definitely is

[@HitomiAyumu]

Nah. Johan Liebert is.

[@luckycat5107]

yes he is complex

[@kitairaill3788]

No but I think he's a good archetype to build complex characters off

[@johnaldrigesmustachehasaid1594]

Hes not complex, hes just ahead of the curve.

[@shmergulflargamish7686]

Batman wins the battle. Joker wins the debate.

[@Jaenjang]

Shmergul Flargamish wrong. Joker won both. Batman didn’t win in any form. Humanity at the end in the ferry scene -won, proving joker wrong. Joker here sees the different side of humanity and ethics which resulted in him panicking

[@vonleevl]

@@Jaenjang No they both didn't win. Sure, Batman won the battle because of end the end order triumphs and is more sustainable and safer than implications and overall consequences of his opposite embracing pessimistic philosophies like anarchy, nihilism, radicalism, terrorism, and pessimism but in the end, they both don't win. Their both symbolic of the split sides of the human nature that'll always be in conflict. Joker: "You'd didn't think I'd risk losing the battle for Gotham's soul in a fist fight with you" " You and I was meant to do this forever"

[@Jaenjang]

Von Lee the dark knight rises just confirmed joker was right

[@officialzacadammorrison]

@@vonleevl right.....

[@christianstrasmann2877]

Only if you believe in subjective morality

[@vicdmonejr6264]

Growing up is realizing that The Joker has a more realistic view on how the world works.....

[@iRazenrak]

It might be realistic, but it has a pessimistic view.

[@kaister901]

+iRazenrak Hello buddy news flash...realistic view is pessimism. We have come far? The joker clearly points out everyone has a price and that's the point. Sure now we have world peace but is it true world peace? For the right price we can go back to cold war instantly. Everyone is just boiling underneath. You just need the right trigger to bring all that back. The joker sees that. False peace better to not have it.

[@simioneitor1975]

Cheel out emo boy.

[@NexTheCorrupt]

+kaister901 Lol we're not at world peace we never have been

[@user-nw5te4mo1q]

Why so serious then?

[@deathangellink]

NORMALITY: the average level of insanity in your environment.

[@myworldorder6753]

It's so interesting because there's no definitive answer to who's right you can see both ends of the spectrum.

[@myworldorder6753]

I know interesting stuff.

[@_____alyptic]

everything is subjective to the individual which makes it all one big joke

[@Natedawg422]

I don't believe that the joker is a lunatic/insane (by definition). In fact, he is a genius that's always in control! He's a master chemist, an exceptional strategist, he's an experienced weapons/explosives tactician, he's manipulative, and has an awesome sense of style. His only flaws are that he enjoys causing chaos, relishes the suffering and death of innocent people, and most of all, he accepts and is aware of his evilness. Oh, and his atrocious one-liners and puns... The Joker isn't crazy, he's just let go of humanities notion of morality.

[@AbandonedVoid]

+ya r Unless you're an extremely dedicated genius like he is.

[@wildnorthsea9872]

And what are 'humanity's notion of morality'? Morality does not exist. It is a concept invented by people and it literally depends where you are living and in which society you are, to ensure that you "live" according to the norms of the society you are living in. eg. Walking about in a mini skirt in Western societies is considered perfectly normal while in some Arabic countries it might send you to jail or get you flogged because their morality is different. Also, morality is the perfect crowd control. If you do this, this and that, you would go into eternal fire , if it is religious morality. If it is political, you would be accused of treason, close mindedness etc and you get marginalized or ridiculed. So yeah, morality wold not exist if it did not give some people power over other people.

[@AbandonedVoid]

wildnorthsea I mean, evil is normally sited as causing more harm than help and pleasure. You're not talking about morality, you're talking about social mores. There's a difference.

[@wildnorthsea9872]

I stated the mini skirt example to be mild. Another example. If I am a particular person who believes that if I blow up people I am going to Heaven and I believe that this belief is what my religion demands of me, and I do blow up people, I am being moral in my own eyes and in the eyes of the people who are like-minded. Others may consider it evil, but I would consider myself a hero or a martyr. Evil and good are standards of society, there is nothing which is objectively evil or good.

[@AbandonedVoid]

wildnorthsea Not necessarily. The reason behind blowing those people up is ultimately a good one: To put an end to or minimize the suffering of others by maintaining God's plan for us. It's just one founded in brainwashed ignorance.

[@YinYangAK47]

The big question is...does the Joker see his actions as evil? Maybe he's the real Superman.

[@rotyler2177]

Of course he does. But, like Harvey Dent he's been pushed over the edge psychologically. He kills for fun and said himself that he's 'like a dog chasing cars'. He wouldn't know what to do with it if he caught one.

[@YinYangAK47]

Ro Tyler Rule #1 - don't ever go by the movies. You can't really make a definitive conclusion when it comes to the Joker's psyche because his past is blurry even to him.

[@judgementday9045]

He sure is the real superman, right? Right.

[@thejoker5454]

That's for me to know and you to find out.

[@rotyler2177]

Zorc Necrophades Well said. Don't think Batman even truly understands him.

[@Gerryanbalan143]

at the end.. Batman wins the battle but the Joker wins the arguement...

[@Mosixman]

And you plagiarize more clever people than yourself. Hilarious, but not really.

[@fluffymassacre2918]

Anthony Johnson unfortunatly you don't understand either, every guy has a price it be money, power, fame, and that is what the joker pretty much explained that anyone can turn evil.

[@fluffymassacre2918]

Anthony Johnson by the way i do not admire anything the joker say, does or conveys

[@Mosixman]

Anthony Johnson Purely good people are not in the majority, what world are you from? Stupid, self serving people are the majority and only band together in times of extreme peril.

[@vergil4220]

This aged like fine wine, considering what is happening now in the current world we live in

[@kamdevil]

Joker is NOT a lunatic. He is a mastermind who plays every step ahead of the batman. That's what makes him more dangerous.

[@shreddedreams]

it's pretty simple.. the Joker doesnt give A FUCK.

[@AmerginMacEccit]

shreddedreams Oh but he does, he goes out of himself to mock a flawed system, he finds weak spots and sets traps just to see how people react. While Batman's goals are quite clear the Joker is out there to show that even that is entirely pointless and he's willing to take it beyond limits to show what real corruption is. He does not want to destroy Batman, he's addicted to him, and Gotham is his little playground.

[@undeny]

shreddedreams He does lol. Stop idolizing narcissism.

[@1stfire_shadow]

Pretty much

[@hcalmijebi]

this, this was on the history channel?

[@Pun1Sh3r_360]

I think it is cute how everyone in the comments just blatantly states their thoughts on the Joker's purpose by completely slamming the other comments. All of you don't even realize that in your attempt to define the Joker you actually presented evidence that strengthens the premise of the video.

[@Predator2179]

I respect the fact that they took this subject so seriously.

[@cgsoldier4196]

5:28 Perfect explanation of the Joker

[@luckycat5107]

Yes it is

[@EwingAmaterasu]

The Joker has a very clear ethics: in a world devoid of meaning, the most reasonable thing to do is to go insane, because there is not sufficient reason to be sane. Sanity is a defense mechanism, acceptance of absurdity entails the acceptance of madness. Batman accepts absurdity, but also takes a leap of faith and acknowledges the validity of universal values as moral guidelines to give life meaning. Batman gives his own life meaning by understanding that we can do better, knowing that there will always be an inner potential to do good, and having a blind faith towards this possibility. Batman understands the absurdity of the universe, he experienced this when his parents where killed. He also understands that a life with meaning is not a life of pleasure or commodity, the fact that he broke his ass training physically and mentally proves this, and also the fact that he knew he would have to endure inhuman psychological and physical pain in order to be Batman. The fact that he chose a "bat" to be his symbol also proves that batman understands the darkness of the world, he presents himself as demonic monster to criminals, not a messiah of light. Still, Batman was never meant to defeat crime, Batman knows he will ultimately fail to stop crime as a whole. Batman's purpose is to sacrifice himself as an individual being, as Bruce Wayne, to become an archetype and legend of hope in the eyes of Gotham and the world as a whole, so that others might find in him an inspiration to be better and make the world a better place. The Joker is absolutely the same but on the opposite direction. If Joker was a complete nihilist, he would just have killed himself and be over with it, he lives because he wants to become a symbol of chaos and absurdity, not for his own sake, but as an explicit expression of what the universe ultimately is, a cruel place without justice or hope, only chaos. That is why Batman and Joker are Ying and Yang. They both want to become universal archetypes to completely opposite existential responses to the absurd: one with meaning, virtue and peace as an end, the other with absurdity, madness and chaos.

[@rickyhunt4075]

The Joker is the realest philospher in human history

[@rubadubdubb8375]

DC is so amazing that it has it's own documentary. Go cry Marvel. (I still respect Stan Lee though)

[@Tyler_W]

You do realize that there are a number of documentaries about both Marvel and DC, right? There are those that analyze the comic book industry and it's history, analyze specific characters (as is the case here), and those that cover the two companies as a hole, both separately and together. I would greatly recommend Siperheroes: A Never Ending Battle, narrated by Liev Shrieber (Donovan Gray and X-men Origins: Wolverine). Point being, DC does not have this one documentary, nor are they the only comic company to receive one. There are in fact many. Poor attempt at trying to foment a Marvel/DC fan war, so please, just stop.

[@ryanfink4206]

Zippertrain85 dude, batmans first ever comic wasn't campy. It was no where near as dark as it is now, but the first ever issue wasn't campy. Batman killed people. And that's that. His first appearance. Robin was introduced to attract you get kids Into the series, and give them someone to connect to. And soon after, the comics code of authority kicked in. After the codes were eased up a bit, this is when they got their more angst filled batman. Angry robin, teenage nightwing, fatherly and so what okay batman but still angry. Jason todd died... Then as lonely place of dying was being made, frank miller was released. Then tim drake was introduced in canon. Nightwing got older, and soon the crisis on infinite earths took place... Making everything crazy and confusing...

[@ryanfink4206]

Zippertrain85 obviously. He wasn't exactly batman when he first appeared...he once hung a guy from the bat plane and laughed..l he was a cold blooded killer. But yes.. It wasn't until the comkcs code authority lifted a little in the 80s that we got our batman we love today. This is when Jason was introduced. And things got angsty. Batman as angry, joker was straight out violent, and robin was a teen who got into trouble a lot.

[@ryanfink4206]

Zippertrain85 and in 86, after being told the plan on what they were gonna do with Jason todd... Frank released TDKR.ll and then in 88-89... Jason todd was killed... Soon later, Tim drake was introduced and we met another era of batman. Th classic modern... The 90s and early 2000s... Good times... Gooooood times..,

[@fist-of-doom487]

There are quite a few Marvel characters that create interesting questions like Joker. Ultron, who in his direct, cold, uncompromising logic sees that humanity in unable to have everlasting peace so decided to destroy the one thing that comprises true peace. Dr. Doom who is what society sees as evil is shown many times over by God like beings and every force in the universe that if Dr. doom had his way earth would be paradise, raising the question "how far are we willing to go to have true peace, or are we actually happy with the flawed world we have?" The characters in Hulk all show ask the questions about the use of power, the morality of strength, and the limits of authority given towards the Military.

[@harmageddon113]

"The presence of random injustice means that there is no justice. The fact that innocence can be destroyed means there is no innocence. So your life is a joke!"

[@SinarBaru-bp4jx]

Everyone who was born from abusive depression life related to this

[@porpus99]

My favorite movie in that most recent Batman trilogy was The Dark Knight. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed them all, but this is way different. The first movie Raza Gul wanted to destroy Gotham. The third movie Bane also wanted to destroy Gotham. But the second movie, the Joker did not want to destroy the city. He wanted to break it. The Joker might not be the strongest of all the villains, but he is far worse than anyone else. He is the polar opposite of Batman. "An unstoppable force meeting an immovable object". The Joker is the perfect nemesis to the Batman.

[@stephenprandy9213]

Like.

[@HypeRhymz]

5:37 - 6:03 perfection!!! I absolutely love joker

[@TeeheeWipeOut]

Joker is a very deep , complex character 2 weeks ago i started playing Batman series [Asylum, City, Origins ] after the second game i got so intrigued by joker that i watched the movie trilogy In the games i'd say that "The Joker " is much more "build" where the accent is based on his madness, revenge and craziness In the movies ... well since only 1 movie is with him i understand that they could't surprise the joker character by his fullness Joker is much more than arch nemesis of batman Joker is that one that put Bat Girl in the wheel chair Joker is the one that one the policeman said he killed 6 oh his colleagues , he bursted in a psyhotic laughtert Joker is the one that had batman at his finger tips for many times Joker is Much more than a trilogy of games/movies Batman on the other said , didn't seem so interesting .... his parents got killed when he was young , he was took by his butler , he was afraids of bats , after a while he realized that gotham is infected whit thugs , he joined Ra"s al Ghul where he learns everything , he betrays him , goes back to gotham , BOOM he's batman -.- +1 for Joker

[@TeeheeWipeOut]

***** Indeed ! and i agree with jokers point of view .... Jokers vision and hatred made him what he is today ! We could say he was made by the society ? Even in the game there is a line like " What you gonna do without me , Bats ?"-proving the point of affection

[@JBalmoreS]

I disagree, I think he's a lot more simple than people think and over the years people have tried to complicate him, water him down you could say. I think it happens to a lot of great evil pop culture villains. Michael Uslan once compared Joker's story to Edgar Allan Poe's Cask of Amontillado which forces us to ask the question on why people would kill or harm each other, the story never answers it but it gives you enough to think about it.

[@judgementday9045]

I love that profile picture :-)

[@luckycat5107]

Yes the Joker is complex character

[@luckycat5107]

+Jim Fitton yes there is complexity in simplicity

[@TheaterRaven]

I'd love to see these guys do an in-depth analysis of Gwynplaine, the character who inspired the Joker. They may look similar, with each character having his mouth fixed into a grin, but as far as stories and personalities go, they're completely different. Gwynplaine is from the novel "The Man Who Laughs" by Victor Hugo. He was disfigured as a child because his father angered the king and Gwynplaine grows up performing as a clown and falls in love with Dea, a blind girl who acts in his shows with him. It's a great book and the characters are fascinating.

[@TheaterRaven]

***** It's indeed a tragic tale, but Gwynplaine and Dea's love is just beautiful. One of the purest in all of literature. There was a 1928 film made by Universal Studios and Lon Chaney was supposed to play Gwynplaine, but he was under contract to MGM at the time and therefore couldn't leave one studio for another. So Gwynplaine was played by Conrad Veidt. As for "Pagliacci", I don't know for certain if it was inspired by "The Man Who Laughs", but it's possible. "The Man Who Laughs" was published in 1869 and "Pagliacci"premiered in 1892.

[@TheaterRaven]

***** If you're referring to looks, I honestly think Romero looks more like Gwynplaine than Nicholson. Romero is pretty much Gwynplaine with green hair. But as for the plot of the '89 film, when the Joker "falls in love" with Vicki Vale, that doesn't make sense to me. It seems to come from out of nowhere. At least Gwynplaine and Dea had their entire childhoods to build a relationship, not to mention how they met--Gwynplaine saved Dea from freezing to death in a blizzard after he was abandoned by the men who disfigured him.

[@fuge511]

+TheaterRaven um dude victor hugo as in arkham city doctor lol

[@TheaterRaven]

Victor Hugo was a 19th century author. Obviously they just took his name for the character.

[@johnaldrigesmustachehasaid1594]

"Some men just want to watch the world burn..."

[@snape539]

The world is a joke, religion, rules, society, life, all is a joke and aways will be...Joker isnt crazy, he is the most normal guy that i have ever seen, we are the crazy ones.

[@RedStreak24]

bet you wouldn't say that if he was real

[@snape539]

Arkham Knight Yep

[@snape539]

Arkham Knight But what defines if he is real or not?

[@rubadubdubb8375]

+Le VorteX *hits imagined blunt If Teh Jokeman exists.... Does the Badman exist?

[@snape539]

xXDragonHoundXx I was not saying the Joker himself, but his personality and way to see the "world"...

[@SausageOfBirth]

it always seemed to me, that what the Joker wanted was simple; for Batman to kill him. That would be the ultimate irony to him, that Batman, who stands for everything the Joker doesn't, to turn into the Joker. He knows how much they are alike, and he wants to bridge it. The only thing that stands between them, is the Joker's blood on Batman's hands. Everything he does, is an extension of that. The killings, the terror, the chaos, to get Batman's attention, and hopefully push him over the edge. That would be funny.

[@Deathrash89]

Batman killed the Joker in the Killing Joke ... when he grabs him, the laughter suddenly stops ^^

[@apocalyptikkat1001]

While that Is very much correct and is a prime motive of what he does, there is a bigger picture to it. The Joker believes that there is no society. He believes that the savagery and atrocities that humans commit are what show their true nature. He believes that the world is devoid of all meaning and innocence and that life and society is simply a ruse and a cruel joke played on everyone to make them controllable by the humans who want control. But besides his beliefs, this justifies nothing. He simply acts as a parody to the world and his constant struggle with Batman is a philosophical battle between the ideas of order and chaos. He wants to show the world the "joke". He is an utter psychopath and he doesn't believe in social norms or the concept itself. All he wants is to kill and cause pain with his beliefs of the world in mind. At the end of the day it's a combination of both of what makes him who he is. He views Batman as his ultimate adversary and as an example of the previously mentioned "joke". He wants Batman to snap and ultimately wants to prove that even the best of us are corruptible, even our heroes. He uses this almost as his "passenger" and his justification for his actions when really there isn't.

[@TheConsciousInsanity]

"The presence of random injustice means there is no justice. The fact that inocence can be destroyed means there is no inocence."

[@Andytheanimedrag]

Thinking about the Joker himself always give me headaches. No wonder why people may loose their minds by playing this guy. It's Un-freaking-believably heavy ! (Do I even call this psycho a man ?... He's a sneaky bastard for sure.) But for me, (my quick personal summary) is that, He became so much more than just a "simple" fictional character, he is severals things at the time. (You can talk for hours about it !) And what's great is that we will never know him, we will never be capable to define him, not entirely, not precisely. There isn't one fix interpretation, personnality, or style. (So much possibilities...) And I think we can all "make" our own Joker, and by that I mean idea or interpretation (of course). And the headache is back...

[@jeffsjuststoked]

"Some men just want to watch the world burn." That sums the Joker up nicely.

[@Ryakki]

They cheapen it and miss it by calling it a mental illness and comparing him to delusional lunatics... he knows exactly what he's doing, is intelligent and understands himself. He just has... a different world view then most

[@skryptre]

i think there's a philosophy no one touches on I've seen so far that the joker embraces- that he doesn't seek power bc he realizes if you seek it that's admitting you don't have it. he is more in charge than you whether he's in a padded cell strapped to a table or holding a gun to your head. he's not afraid of death which gives him more power than one who does, as he'll take the gamble with his life (and yours) and through greater risk he has the potential for greater results whether good or bad. he owns the casino of life bc everyone else is scurrying around worrying they'll loose more than they'll gain. normal people want to believe they can control their surroundings and make things better one step at a time. the joker accepts he can't control it, he rides the waves of chance, and he embraces hedonism.

[@mrepicpower5955]

the joker isnt crazy. he is super-sane. he knows he is fake and everyone else is fake. he even turned his own comic page before. he isnt crazy, he is super-sane.

[@silent1823]

Yeah thats a theory a game theory !

[@JFJ240]

" That's how far the world is from where I am. Just one bad day. [...] The point is, I went crazy. When I saw what a black and awful joke the world is, I went crazy as a coot. I admit it ! Why can't you ? [...] It's all a joke, everything [...] Why aren't you laughing ?" Can't wait for the Killing Joke cartoon :) Not so much for the origin story, but the confrontation between those two "mad monsters" is gonna be awesome (no matter the animation, Hamill's Joker will always save the BAD day)

[@isaacjimenez2044]

it was great

[@JFJ240]

Isaac Jimenez Yes ! I loved it. Even tough the first act was a little... frustrating, but I can understand why they choose that direction. But it was way too long, and the second part seems kinda rushed. The Joker's monologue would have been so much better if it was longer. But still a great cartoon, and Hammill is still the best ! :)

[@Howl14]

I dont think the jokers insane, pretty sure he knows exactly what hes doing throughout the dark knight so i guess hes just a dude with a sick (but intelligent) mind and laughs at wrong things

[@maxwilson3530]

He's probably just a sociopath

[@shagstars]

or he is super sane.

[@mariovargasjr9406]

he is in intelligent. Its stated in the philosophy of the joker by wisecrack i believe

[@mayanfield6337]

kinda think same

[@greenjoe4202]

+Spooky “Bones” Skeleton right. there wouldn't be right without wrong vice versa.

[@pillandatti5043]

Who here after that amazing performance by phoenix

[@dreamiestseabean]

It helps that what he's stripping away is order, unveiling the true bottom line of chaos behind the actions of every and anyone he backs into a corner. I wish you'd continue. I bet your essay would be more fun than this video.

[@Bidon45]

I don't think the joker is insane. He seems perfectly sane to me, he is in touch with reality, he just interprets it differently than most.

[@Psycho3418]

It's hard to describe guys like the Joker. "Psycho" or "Madman" or "Different" don't come close to it cause we simply are unable to understand these kind of people. Without understanding all we can do is prejudicing.

[@MisterAwestasia]

The Joker is one of the most complex and intricate villains I have ever come across in my life. His complete and utter random yet genius mind makes him a very force of chaotic evil and to be unpredictable makes him even more dangerous. The Joker isn't simply a character he is the force that makes all sometimes doubt our own nature and sometimes makes us delve into the darkest recesses of thought. He is the inner Nihilist that defies order and destroys not for substantial gain but to his point.

[@jamlym4974]

That picture of the Joker with "Why so serious?" at the end is chilling. Just when we thought we'd figured him out and it ends on that positive note about choosing to do good, the Joker appears and seems to have the last laugh almost.

[@nrx006]

I know that he said that. But it was to manipulate Harvey. Joker does have plans. What he pulled off in the film also needs planning. Not to mention that he writes down his plans in TAS and also in the comics. The part when he said 'I just do things' was just to turn Harvey against the 'relatively good people' who -according to Joker- are scheming while Joker himself is the one who is scheming. He's a manipulative psychopathic bastard but he will always be my favourite villain.

[@kevindunne4248]

The JOKER is the only sane person in his universe because he is right about their lives being a great big joke...He KNOWS he is in a COMIC BOOK!!!

[@Destino2493]

The Joker is violent and evil simply because he thinks life is a cruel joke only he understands

[@apocalyptikkat1001]

Very true. He's a textbook psychopath. All he wants in the world is to cause pain and suffering because to him the world and the notion of innocence is non existent. to him, nothing in the world matters and there Is no good. All he wants is to show the world how it really works and believes that he is the one who has seen through all the foliage and uncovered life's meaning. to him, Batman is just an obstacle and their struggle is a game. He ultimately wants to use Batman as an example. Did you ever stop to think of why he killed Jason Todd or paralyzed Barbara Gordon? he simply wanted to make Batman suffer. He wants Batman to snap one day and to finally compromise his beliefs and kill The Joker. to him, death by the hands of Batman is the ultimate victory. it's an example of his beliefs and shows how even our greatest champions can be broken and corrupted. it would have proved his point all along. After realizing how uncompromising and how morally good Batman is compared to The Jokers moral bankruptcy and evil, the sole meaning of his existence is to win this constant struggle that they have and to show the world the "joke". He wants to shove the concept of human nature into the world's face and simply will not stop until his purpose is full filled and Batman has lost. Killing Batman would almost be like losing to him. He would have no nemesis to face. He wouldn't have the last laugh.

[@Lions4322]

finalfantasy8911 They don`t exactly possess the same amount of self-awareness that, let`s say, a deep thinker would have had. Thus they`re easier to compare with raw animals that really live after the Darwinian principle(s) than with people who truly see the world as it is.

[@DarlaLathan]

Thanks for clarifying nihilism! It is often misunderstood, even in comics, since Joker is supposedly a "nihilistic" villain, just because he randomly kills people without a motive.

[@ThomasSellers]

The Joker is proof that the old saying "money is the root of all evil" is not even close to realistic. The Bible mentions it as the ROOT, without considering the SOIL. The Joker IS knowledge of that soil! He knows how the real world IS, that light and dark are more complex than the Bible can paint. Jesus condemns sin which he himself committed. The Joker is the celebration of sin. Which means Batman is also more complex in his own heart. He knows he has chosen the right path for himself. He also knows the Joker has as well. Weird as this is, it makes more sense than the outlandish lie that the meek will inherit the earth.

[@squirreleater3966]

"Ever dance with the devil in the pale moonlight?"

[@fatsmcgee8923]

Squirrel Eater "As my plastic surgeon always said, if ya gotta go....go with a smile!"

[@anic9819]

The scariest thing about the joker is that he could be anyone. Anyone can become the joker

[@Windshadow97]

what documentary is this? I have never heard of this!

[@sincere2da]

Joker is not complicated.. If people really understand human nature, social engineering, power, and desire of human beings.. he is quite understandable.. existentialism is the theme here.

[@emptycranialchamber]

Batman vs. Joker is the most compelling feud in the history of fiction in my personal opinion. And the fact that it exists in so many different types of media (comics, cartoons, two major motion pictures) makes it even more compelling because of all of the different twists that can be implemented upon it. And these commentators in this clip hit the nail on the head as far as what's going on whenever these two face off.

[@natertotification]

This is the best 8 minutes on youtube. Does anybody know the name of the documentary this came from?

[@OneManMafia96]

This is probably the best explanations I've found for the greatest villains of all time.... yes The Joker is the best villain in the history of comic books

[@jamlym4974]

I love Christopher Nolan's take on the Joker. He's just a natural response to Batman. Meaning that he's just a random guy. It doesn't matter who he is or where he comes from. He could be anybody. Some versions of the Joker do give him a backstory, but even then, he starts out as some nobody.

[@RX552VBK]

Dr. Karney makes the best point and it's frightening one at that.

[@LukaszPrzek]

@Mogwai786 please give me some examples of skewed logic. Also what you said doesn't really make a connection with psychosis. I haven't read Batman Confidential but I have seen The Dark Knight and read, The Long Halloween, Dark Victory, the first two Knightfalls, Arkham Asylum, Haunted Knight, The Killing Joke and I don't recall any of them showing hints of psychosis in the Joker. It would be reductive to the character if he wasn't fully aware of what he was doing. He loves messing with society

[@jameslyman5793]

That picture of the Joker at the very end kind of makes you wonder if this entire seven minute documentary served any purpose at all to figuring him out.

[@ZomBLord]

@Mogwai786 Discussion aside, props to you on maintaining a civil disposition. At this point we both seem to be repeating ourselves, but you haven't fallen to insulting me; I have, henceforth, utmost respect for you.

[@Constipated1337]

I really appreciate what you say in that statement. The idea that morality or "correctness" is inherent is absurd, and delusional. Good on you.

[@dreamiestseabean]

What would an example of a real life joker be?

[@aaronhemme8913]

The Joker doesn't need a complete origin. The best way to keep something or someone scary and mysterious is to keep their backstory a mystery. Also Joker will NEVER kill Batman. Will he fuck his personal life up, yes. But the line in the film when Joker says "You won't kill me because of some form of self righteousness, and I won't kill you....Because your just too much fun." That is the true meaning of this great conflict.

[@Xx_HD_xX]

Ya know what the biggest joke is? World peace. A man holds a meeting & says "I can give you safety, closure, happiness & take all of your fears away. All you have to do give me your life & do as I say." One man speaks up & says "Can we keep our freedom though?".....

[@DarlaLathan]

Another documentary says the Joker has schizophrenia, Batman has post-traumatic stress disorder, the Riddler has narcissistic personality disorder, etc.

[@Oznatam]

Hence the question "Is Batman just as crazy as Joker?"

[@wildcard8924]

I'm leaning towards moral nihilism. this is very interesting to me. I agree with the guy who said that it is ultimately a philosophical topic.

[@nrx006]

I love this description of Joker and Batman but I think Joker's motives are not always irrational. He doesnt just want to see the world burn. Somewhere I read a really good rant about his true goals which were: make Batman laugh, prove that Batman is insane too, make Batman break his moral code and finally kill the Joker.

[@lj7420]

*Joker wants to reveal people's true nature behind all the bravado, the suits, & the sophistication. That despite how upright people want to portray themselves, they are always as bad if not worse than him. Hence proving this when people decided to attack/kill the lawyer when Joker threatened to blow up a/the hospital when he told Gotham that he won't unless the laywer is killed. Also almost proving this again when he gave detonators for the people to blow up the other boat or else all of the people die.* *He realized that revealing to people their own true nature puts everyone at the same plane field of self-awareness. Therefore, there's justly no immoral people being controlled by other immoral people just because the latter has a badge or wears a suit. For example, the top government or Elite who go about divide & conquer are just as bad at heart as the man/woman who committs manslaughter & is in prision. Joker believes in no rules because with no rules, survival of the fittest commences & that's the only justifiability to society. Everyone's truly antagonistic & corrupt at heart & simply expresses it in different ways regardless of their race, gender, societal class, or back-story.* *He's not a traditional nihilist nor anarchist; Joker doesn't believe life is meaningless but the way people go about self-delusion causes their lives to be meaningless; living in fictional world(s). Joker doesn't believe in violence for the sake of violence yet anarchy amongst all types of people of the masses & higher classes is simply natural selection & results in the "right" people or people who earned the right to be in charge. Anarchy is a state of disorder due to absence or nonrecognition of authority. Therefore, anarchy is a result of kicking the hypocritical authority out of the fray, so that we can start from scratch again. He believes chaos is fear; fear of refusing to embrace the true selfish & individualistic nature of oneself. Joker is an agent of this because he acknowledges this & goes about showing it so we can press the reset button & see who truly deserves to be at the top, not through various ideals of right/wrong but to prove who's at right or wrong through who can best the other in the mist of chaos.* *The fact that innocents can be killed & the fact that specific groups being portrayed in the mainstream news as perfect victims have (secretly) outright killed others: means there are no innocents. Joker sees himself as a brutally honest (revelation) of the heart/subconscious of humanity. He understands yet we don't.* *That means your life is a joke.* *So who's really crazy?... LOL.*

[@2020Twenty]

If people were mostly evil by nature, we'd have destroyed ourselves many times by now. But we haven't. Good (almost) always prevails in the end. We always rebuild, and move forward.

[@beefdog]

The intro creeps the shit out of me and it takes a lot to creep me out.

[@tiagoraimundo1310]

Ijlkllju r dinf .jj9 J0jomm,knz-****!!! 0♥[¿

[@thatoneartist9435]

2:49 CLIP FROM THE JOKER BLOGS! Please check out them it's based on The Dark Knight Rises for you Joker and Harley Quinn fans out there!

[@leosanalien9904]

Bale's accent is all messed up

[@Char1iBr0wn]

This is an example of the Emperor vs Chaos

[@kiwitowel]

The guy who was speaking of philosophy was mostly correct, but he made one crucial error: Batman doesn't fight the Joker due to some challenge of philosophy. It's usually either just because the Joker is a mass-murdering psychotic criminal, or because they each stand as the naturally conflicting exemplars of order and chaos. Most importantly though, he misstated Joker's reasoning. He doesn't fight Batman just because he disagrees with him, he fights with Batman because he somehow manages to prove him wrong. He somehow manages to stay so stoic and unmoving in a world that does not make sense. He views Batman as an interesting abnormality in a (to him) boring, nonsensical, repetitive world.

[@ZomBLord]

@Mogwai786 While the argument is pitiful, it doesn't matter that a nihilist feels and shows emotion; simply that they believe that those emotions lack objective value.

[@OneLine122]

Batman is the nihilist, the Joker is the absurd, Dent is hypocrisy. At the end, Dent is destroyed, and nihilism flees into hiding, So from the hope it gave at first, it descends into despair for the third movie. It is in the third movie that the choice to live is made by Bruce and Gotham. You could say that the Joker made the choices clear and forced them, and in the second movie, they did not make the right one, in order to win or keep the appearance that they did not loose. Another way to see it, is that nobody took responsibility. Bruce pretended to do it, but under a mask, so there was only Dent, but he also was not totally honest, so everybody is a slave. The Joker wants to liberate the slaves, force them to take responsibility, which they refuse to do.

[@LamentationsEnd]

I would argue hat the Joker is perfectly sane. In the comics, there was a document written by Harley when she was still sane that the Joker's coordination of his crimes were too masterfully written to have been done by a madman, meaning he should be tried and sent to prison as someone who commits crimes out of free will. The joke is he knew a document written by the doctor he drove insane would never hold up in court.

[@GrimmThePhantom]

Makes sense. However, you could have in the comics Two-Face's face scab over almost greenish like in the originals. The chemicals that Joker fell into could have killed all of his melotonin making his skin white. However, I did like how Nolan took Frank Miller's comic and turn it into a movie.

[@GreenAlienXD]

I can say that I feel like a complete nerd while watching this BUT am not ashamed to feel as such!

[@ZomBLord]

@Mogwai786 No, but it's a respectful way to back out of a discussion without antagonizing or surrendering to one's opponent.

[@ZomBLord]

@Mogwai786 You didn't criticize the thought, though, you criticized the adherents as inherently harmful. "they would ride roughshod; they would steal, stop others' freedoms, extend their rights, actively undermine notions of equality and justice." That has no bearing on the discussion without begging the question, and is personally insulting.

[@darkangelcloud7]

Neither an anarchist nor a nihilist, Joker's an existentialist.

[@shane90000]

what doesnt kill you only makes you stranger ::)

[@UncomfortableSilence]

At 1:50 and a little bit onward, what does that guy say about the Joker? I can't make out what he is saying when the picture flashes and he says something.

[@filmaster8420]

Is there a link for the full length vid?

[@Nameless_JPN-ENG]

Joker just want Batman or Superman do the things that violate their own moral codes

[@jeromedevecais2751]

UNSTOPPABLE FORCE VS. IMMOVABLE OBJECT 🃏

[@nrx006]

I'm not a psychologist but Joker's personality ( which he might be faking ofc and that's the real problem with him) is the definition of a psychopath or sociopath according to the Internet. Also lots of people said it in the comics. It's a disorder and he has all the symptoms like manipulative, grandiose sense of selfworth, lack of remorse for his actions, impulsive, need stimulation, irresponsible, lack of empathy and probably incapable of normal love etc. He is a psycho- or sociopath.

[@Flynn94]

i think i might slightly agree with the jokers viewpoint since it was explained so well at 05:36 onwards

[@ZomBLord]

@Mogwai786 Actions do not dictate meaning; hypocrisy is human nature. Also, I appear to be using a broader definition of nihilism than you. The nihilism I speak of is rejection of any values whatsoever. ALL is irrelevant. That doesn't necessarily change anything. I will still behave as I choose to behave, and respond to sensations as I choose to respond. It doesn't hinder my ability to think or act. That is a restriction for those desperate for meaning and purpose in their lives.

[@auro1986]

Bob Kane probably never revealed the truth that The Joker is a mutant with psychic powers, which he got from the vat of chemicals he fell into that also turned his skin white and hair green. How else can he be so lucky always, to lead society around him into Lunacy, and make everybody think he is a hero?

[@CourtneyCoulson]

I'm fascinated with philosophy and psychology and I'm a fan of comics, in particular Batman, as most of his villains have a specific mental illness and I love seeing which comics get it most accurate. But Joker eludes any label, he's definitley not psychotic, but a psychopath. Antisocial? No, more than that. Maybe he isn't insane but completly uninhibited. He understands morality is an illusion. Or it could be that he's been written from the conflicting perspectives of hundreds of writers.

[@TorchwoodMidWest]

That's the scene from Batman Begins, where the League of Shadows lets all the inmates out of Arkham Asylum, right before they release the fear toxin into the air. But I know, right? Way too similar.

[@MrOnomonopia]

The Joker may not be suffering from a psychotic break with reality but he has always been a fairly straight forward psychopath. He shows no empathy but is perfectly capable of feeling it but only when he needs to, psychopaths can do this in order to manipulate others and blend into society. The Joker isn't trying to completely destroy everything like he says but instead is emulating an accepted extreme behavior that Gotham has accepted in Batman. The Joker identity allows an "acceptable" outlet

[@WingZero75]

Frankl was wrong on a couple things. 1, by giving suffering meaning, you create those who will suffer for meaning. 2, By giving suffering meaning, you are argueing for a purpose in life, which is merely subjective. Other than that, Mans Search for meaning was a great book.

[@asubjectiveopinion]

@LichQueenKathie As a "psychologist" what would you say is the primary distinction between a compulsive liar and a pathological one? What should I look for if I thought someone was, for example, a pathological liar with narcissistic personality disorder? Would mutually contradictory grandiose lies and a tendancy towards infantile egotism be indicators?

[@somethang9264]

What documentary is this?

[@MajinZarak]

Not necesarily ridiculous, as fictional characters often are based on ideas, people or elements from real life. That doesn't mean the writer is crazy or is evil, the writer draws from his experiences and knowledge to give shape to his creations. In the case of the Joker, he represents in part the enemy who you can't negotiate or reason, which is what makes him so scary and dangerous.

[@sylviaphoenix]

In the end life is nothing more then fate's ultimate punchline, so smile!

[@ashleydavid1948]

R . I . P . , Len Wein .

[@mayanfield6337]

that was so powerful and so true

[@pawnstar3]

The Joker is a nihilist, not because of his actions but because of his beliefs. Just because you don't believe in objective morality doesn't mean you commit evil acts. In the Joker's case he does, but that doesn't mean that every nihilist would.

[@ductuslupus87]

I fucking hate the new comment section. But I'll adapt.

[@sonja7halcyon]

It really sucks. Having to reload a page to read a comment someone replied to. Why? Why.

[@diegocamacho6477]

Great documentary.