The Labor Crisis No One Is Talking About

[@michaelgill7994]

I'm 23 and got into construction with a small company. It was a J-O-B. That was it. I tried to learn as much as I could but the bosses didn't seem to have an interest in teaching, leading, or professionalism. The pay wasn't great either, so I did what anyone would do, I left and worked at Amazon where I was overworked, under appreciated, and had no connection with my work. I left Amazon and tried to get back into construction because at least with that work I enjoyed the constant change of scenery. The boss at this new job was an older guy and had been in the trade for 30+ years, but he had a temper and it's hard to learn a trade with someone who constantly cusses you out. Pay is only part of the problem, but probably the bigger reason there's no young guys left is because they're tired of the old guys in these trades disrespecting them even if they're showing initiative and trying to learn everything they can.

[@GregtheGrey6969]

I'm 48, and wish I could show you what others won't. Thanks for sharing your experiences.

[@drewnielson6472]

Yep sounds about right

[@joshuacorbin221]

Thanks for contributing a dose of reality. It goes to show that poor leadership is very damaging to a company and by extension entire industries. It's the law of the lid. It's lost wages in the form of lost opportunity all because some leader refused to have some integrity and character

[@joshuacorbin221]

I'm 33 and I'm going to have to do "young guy" work well into my "not young" years and I'm sure it would be well worth it as long as my corporeal form can still handle it

[@joshuacorbin221]

As a food processing employee I chose the job security over volatile trade work because I came of age during the recession and as such had extreme difficulty finding gainful pay. It was tough

[@abigailsmall3130]

My husband is a skilled tradesman. He went to work as a maintenance technician in hospitality because he was getting tore up with his own business. They offered him $11 an hour. The hotel I worked at advertised for an engineer but would only pay $16 an hour. Pay is a huge problem! You said good help is hard to find... I have experience in carpentry and building maintenance, even building my own home, I don't call off, great attitude, like to learn but noone will hire me. Employers just want cheap labor they take advantage of.

[@matsuyamaalex]

Why even go to school if you're only going to get paid $16 an hour?

[@TLJAWSIMIB]

EXACTLY. WHAT'S THE FUCKING POINT ?

[@C1K450]

@@TLJAWSIMIBillegal immigration beat out American workers first in construction. Your chances in the Skilled Trades will be in service and maintenance work, preferably your options are limited to being an electrician, plumber, elevator tech, hvac tech, and welder. All great career choices but all of those other trades like painting, ironwork, roofing, masonry, and carpentry are being taken over by illegal labor and low ballers.

[@diodelvino3048]

You say this and older people will try to tell us that we just want everything handed to us, millions of us could tell them why many arent going into trades and they still wont listen, because "no one wants to work" apparently

[@blackqueen5201]

Facts

[@GenerationApollo]

The trades shot themselves in the foot on this. When I was in high school, the message of “you must go to university if you don’t want to be a loser” was being drilled into us. Meanwhile, I don’t remember ever seeing a single labor union rep come to our school to tell us about the benefits of working in the trades. And decades later, the result is millions of people with student loan debt with useless degrees and no young guys wanting to work in the trades. Trades didn’t market themselves and we’re paying the price. This problem wasn’t created overnight, nor will it be solved overnight.

[@thetricksterpill]

Exactly, Instead of wasting my time on useless basic courses, I could have learned hands on which was what I really wanted.

[@sunnyd4734]

Depends on your college major. My niece majored in biology with a masters degree in science and is making $115K as a physician assistant, age 31.

[@ChristianCarnivoreLady]

Road construction is all my sweet hubby has ever done for work and now he makes $50+/hr. I'm very fortunate to be married to a hardworking "loser" ❤

[@crand20033]

I think with trades certificate you will be going from job to job and you would be out of work at lot and it would be more unstable than if you were a worker with a "useless" degree although that work is unstable too. May as well start you own business if you are a plumber or carpenter.

[@Sophie3647s]

Depends on the degree, I earn 80k (part- time) annually with an associate in science- dental hygiene.

[@intn14]

Not sure having a guy disabled at 36 from the trades is helping the cause here.

[@girlygirl1890]

@intn 14 lol! True.

[@admiralsuperior3]

True

[@yahelluna3842]

Well, if not a lot of people doing it and you're good at it, you could make as much as you want.

[@NotShowingOff]

@@yahelluna3842 not true. Construction is inundated with undocumented laborers. If there weren’t any, you might be correct

[@diamondvikingcrypto5369]

@@yahelluna3842 till they think immigrants should be brought in to provide labor

[@ecole146]

People are tired of working for peanuts. Illegal immigrants will work in the trades for next to nothing, Americans will not. Young people in America see how exploitative and ridiculously low trade wages are when you're working for someone else and don't want to put that effort in for low pay. There is ZERO shortage of young American workers in sales or technology. Wanna know why? Because jobs in those sectors don't wear your body out and they pay reasonably well - with an opportunity to make a good living without running your own business. I work in IT and service many small-medium size businesses with blue collar workers. I have heard firsthand how the workers are struggling, while the boss is at his vacation home in Hawaii for the 6th week this year. People are sick and tired of giving their bodies and making "the man" richer.

[@amireallythatgrumpy6508]

Young people in America are incapable of seeing anything. You give them too much credit.

[@TimErwin]

This is so true. I've worked in many blue-collar jobs and met so many broken-down old men. These men were proud, hard workers who sacrificed their lives, and sometimes their body parts, for their jobs. ...And they still were paid peanuts. Now young men are expected to sacrifice their bodies AND NOT be able to afford a house, car, healthcare, or anything else. And why? Because the boss thinks only he deserves money. Not you. Blue-collar work is being killed...by the employers.

[@jimba6486]

Well said

[@MrSilence99]

@@TimErwin Its not just employers killing off blue collar work. Its taxes and unions too. The company I work for pays well for what little profit it makes which is around 1-3% and a chunk of that remaining profit goes to charity. But I know there aren't a lot of businesses like that.

[@chriscampbell9191]

And, don't tell me. Those bosses on endless vacays in the tropics all tell everyone how they built it all themselves.

[@Thebankfisher]

Coming from a young person (35) who served their country 4 years in a construction rate and then put 12 years into the trades as a civilian. There is only so long you can take getting no where in life while others are getting rich off of the schemes of this countries systems. It's a horrible feeling when you bust your ass with honor in something that is not appreciated anymore.

[@AmyMichelleMosier]

Employment is like dating ... the trust is gone.

[@Suchayoutuber]

Isn't it sad in this country when we pay "KZbinrs" More money, which as far as I'm concerned isn't a real job, More than we pay EMTs nurses firefighters military personnel..... In the list goes on

[@thegodhoward8037]

I do not believe that America has a labor shortage. I believe that America is facing a much greater crisis. about 4 to 5 months ago I was medically discharged from the army I was in for just under 6 months and within that period of time the job market has taken an absolute nosedive. before I joined it was easy to get a job were they high paying no but work was work and fake listings were far and in between but now that I'm out I cant find work not even part time in fast food. Also, after just 6 months the job market has been filled to the brim with fake jobs from places that are not actually hiring making it extremely difficult to find places that are. Here is an example yesterday I walked into a taco bell to check up on my application. i had checked in on this same location on 2 different occasions prior to this one. i asked for the hiring manager she came to me and asked what I wanted. I asked if my application had been reviewed yet and she looked me in the eye and said she wasn't hiring. thing is tho directly outside this taco bell was 5 to 6 big signs with the words NOW HIRING on them. then to top it all off they are only one of the many other companies doing the exact same thing! So is America going thru a labor shortage? Short answer no. What is happening in America is much more sinister and way scarier then a few people getting fed with their jobs. The truth is America is being manipulated by those in power.

[@geraldleuven169]

@@Suchayoutuber Great point.

[@darkgardener9577]

Yup, be your own boss and don't ever let them get away with not paying you your worth.

[@richardpate4732]

I am 55 now and was a framer/remodeler for 22 years. Saw the writing on the wall in 2006 and went back to school at age 39 to become a nurse. Best decision of my life. I saved my knees and didn't have weather days that kept me from working. I also didn't have to be underbid by some guy who could barely speak English.

[@Hoffmanpack]

Your nailed the problem with modern economy. They tried replacing us instead of paying better wages.

[@wesjimez2941]

​@@Hoffmanpack facts. Companies don't care about lower level employees. Only top executives.

[@mendoza4789]

import 3rd world labor suppreses wages for american workers

[@garypierce7380]

Plus you could hook up with a rich doctor there....just kidding. :)

[@MrZakatista]

Nursing is not exactly easy either!

[@stephenjackson9041]

I did construction for 10 years from age 20 to 30. It was destroying my body. I went in to work hurt everyday. I am one of the hardest workers you will find, but I couldn't do it anymore. I left for a job that isn't as hard on my body. I have all the respect in the world for construction workers.

[@cxa011500]

People go where they get paid. People aren't passing over trades just because it's "hard", it's because they have other options that pay as well. Don't tell young people they should just go to physically demanding trades for the "love" or "honor" when they can sit behind a computer almost anywhere in the world and get paid just as much. If you want to attract more people, pay more.

[@ATLMike94]

Exactly

[@Sylis1000]

This is a severely underrated comment.

[@vchafab]

I don’t know anyone that makes more money than my husband and his friends except for our doctor. They are all in an Union which helps, they all make over $140k as elevator mechanics, plumbers, HVAC, and electricians. His friend worked OT last year and cleared $300k so he could save up for a large downpayment.

[@5kamon]

And sitting in front of a computer doesn't use people up the same way.

[@KazzoKiller3890]

​@vchafab are they hiring?

[@drumyogi9281]

I worked in the trades for 5 years. Now I work in IT. I make WAY more money, WAY better benefits and WAY less stress.

[@noahgcn]

What advice can you give someone who wants to get into IT ?

[@drumyogi9281]

@@noahgcn Study, study, study. Confidence is what gets you through the door, knowledge is what shows your employers that you can get things done.

[@Yassin.ibn.farouk]

@@drumyogi9281 study what? You didn't go to school for this?

[@tsiefhtes]

That is true for now but as a IT person myself I wonder how long it'll be before a majority of IT jobs become automated thanks to the advances in AI. I strongly suspect that the majority of IT jobs like the majority of HR and accounting jobs are going to disappear in the next 10 to 20 years. And lots of IT ( expecially coding) work that used to be done in the US is already being outsourced to countries with much lower wages ( India and other countries). I suspect this AI becomes more trusted and capable we will see it taking over the already outsourced jobs and ultimately everything but the installation and management positions. At least the trades positions are safe until drones reach the point we have to worry about a Terminator style robot revolution.

[@robertreitmanjr4413]

Get into IT in ecommerce businesses..less automation occurs because too much change to innovate products and advertising for their inventory..i.got.into ecommerce qa testing after I did a bootcamp

[@ehderguyyashootadeerorno2313]

BRING BACK THE SHOP CLASSES IN HIGH SCHOOL!!!!

[@ironwill8596]

Lol the younger generation knows about the a.i robot labor force

[@Damon-qt3fw]

Can’t bring back those classes. It’ll slow the feminizing of boys.

[@Ezunit1991]

Shop was in my school

[@marcburns508]

wont matter. their gonna hit the job site, see the people they gotta work with, and dip. Im not busting my butt like a slave for some lazy boomer boss who dont want to work.

[@chada75]

Even that may not work. Grew up in the Auto Industry and couldn't even get into Auto Body in High School in the 90's.

[@KevynJacobs]

I tried to get into an electrician apprenticeship. I met all the educational requirements, but couldn't find anyone willing to apprentice me. Many of us who try to get into the trades are being turned away by the trades -- they don't want new tradesmen.

[@atheinasophiajade1044]

Missouri ,.

[@MrSilence99]

Same here. I did interviews with several companies big and small and they all came up with some excuse not to hire me. One said I lived too far away because I was willing to drive 45 minutes. Another company told me I was too young even though I was 21. I watched as those companies kept those same job adds up for the next year. Oh well. Their loss.

[@jacobmansfield-go9fz]

same here. I had low volt experience, still nothing, not even for a pay cut.

[@dr.detroit1514]

I think, to get in some trades, you have to know or be related to somebody in that business.

[@jasonwilliams8321]

I tried to get into the IBEW back in the 1990's. Starting pay was 6.00 an hour and then you had to attend classes that you had to pay for as well as the textbooks. Then when you are a journeyman they have you locked into a 4 year contract to work for them at the local lowest base pay in the nation for electricians.

[@taylorman40x9]

My uncle who just passed away at the age of 55 was a great carpenter. He made like 45k a year and his wife had an office job paying 60k a year. Imagine that!!! He busted his ass and she got to sit on her ass in the AC.

[@anthonyhuber-permanentlyre7808]

*And he died very young by today's standards.* He got a raw deal indeed. 😔

[@thepresentmoment369]

Office jobs though are notorious for giving blood clots.

[@dylanakent]

Anyone making 60k in an office job has a SKILL, they aren't just sitting there.

[@LupusMechanicus]

@@dylanakent Indeed the skill is leaching off of people that maintain society.

[@midlifecrisis7888]

Men are done putting up with society telling them they are the problem. Fine we going to do us, you do you.

[@neimadize]

And then they will replace you with a Illegals for cheap labor; nothing solved, nobody learns any lessons.

[@LaurenceHoneytoast]

Great grandfather was a stone mason. Came to this country from Italy through NYC. Learned English and laid brick by hand he was a tough man hard as nails. His son my grand pop did the same one of seven children. My dad went to be a carpenter in the unions made a ton of money but he ended up with a bulging disc and left the trade. Wasn’t sure he wound able to provide for a pregnant wife and put a roof over our heads. He said it was a scary time. Not before he was able to build a house with what he knew and my grandfather laid the brick. They told us growing up to go to school so you don’t have to work like we did. Its hard because I know I’m built for the work but I don’t want to end up crippled from it making someone else rich.

[@johnmartin4641]

If your career makes someone else rich, but doesn’t make you rich, then you’re in the wrong career.

[@Arthurjr16]

Safety and working smart is what will minimize getting hurt back in the day safety wasnt a thing now it is but some companies dont implement it so find the company that does

[@roninbruh]

@@johnmartin4641 I think you highlighted the REAL problem at hand that no one wants to talk about.

[@leroyjenkins6809]

Do the work, save up the money and start your own business and or invest.

[@sarahann530]

@@johnmartin4641 The vast majority of people don't get rich ,so spare us your bullshit .

[@colestaples2010]

I turn 41 this year and I’m already disabled. Since I was self employed I have no way of getting disability checks. Working in the trades has ruined my life. Being an owner gets you no where. Yeah sure you can invoice at $80 an hour but after all the overhead of the business it’s not much of a raise. You need to double that rate

[@pearlivory3483]

AGREED.

[@EarlHayward]

If you are medically disabled, you will qualify for Social Security… Being self employed generally disqualifies you from unemployment insurance claims, and sometimes workers compensation, but not private disability insurance or Social Security!

[@slippinslidewayz]

I loved working in construction and as a machinist. They were both really fun jobs, but I made only a few dollars over minimum wage and no benefits because I didn't go union. Honestly, they're great trades but if they want to get new people, they need to pay more. Now I make 6 times as much in a nice office with snacks and buy any woodworking tools I want so I can build my house nicer on the weekends.

[@889976889]

Spot on I have a buddy who’s a machinist that left due to poor wages

[@thepresentmoment369]

What do you do for a living?

[@ianadams5348]

I’m 23 and have been in trades since 2020. I’ve worked in General Contracting, apartment maintenance, gutter installation and now plumbing. And I can tell you from my experience money is the main issue in trades. I beat my body up every day (even in plumbing) just to make a millionaire richer. I’ve got a different job lining up working in Maintenance at a college. Because at least there there’s benefits, a good 401k and good pay. All the companies I’ve worked for in trades are about the numbers. And as a result, I’m about the numbers. So the Honest Carpenter is right Ken. It comes down to $$$

[@litoreggie]

Absolutely agree

[@jejunamja]

Back in 1984 I know that’s a long time ago now I had a friend who is a drywaller and he was making $19 an hour which was good money back then and then that trade became labor because of an influx of cheap workers and so if you work in the trades It’s good when you’re a young man while you’re going to school but I wouldn’t recommend it to anybody now because it’s kind of a race to the bottom in the sense of what they pay or what you can pay get paid and there’s no benefits, no insurance no retirement and if you get physically hurt, you are totally out of luck

[@xXRustyShacklefordXx]

As a 100% disabled veteran my body is so jacked from endless pt and physical labor from my job that I don't wish physical labor on anyone. I'm 29 and have kids that I cannot keep up with when I want to play with them. I can't run on my knees. Physical labor is a joke. Don't fall for it. There will always be someone dumber than you are to do the hard manual labor.

[@solvend]

Agree. And I don't recommend joining the military to anyone either. The VA has me convinced they just want us to die.

[@Hoffmanpack]

Truth bomb, about someone dumber or higher on drugs who can't feel pain temporarily.

[@EducationMarketingLeader]

I did my apprenticeship as a concrete finisher in my early 20s and worked construction for about four year. Left that job, got a college degree and now work in communications. Couldn’t be happier with the switch.

[@litoreggie]

I’m so happy to see this topic! Please keep this subject going once in a while. I have a cleaning business and I’m 42 with 2 bulged disks in my lower back and tennis elbow that never goes away , these are just the really bad things. No young people want blue collar jobs and I don’t blame them at this point. I’m now desperately trying to get into digital marketing and even selling my home to further my education cause my cleaning days are numbered. Kids all go to college and can’t handle blue-collar work. Honestly, who wants to get treated like crap, with bad hours of hard labor in all weather conditions??? Pay us what the desk jockeys make and show some respect. The pandemic definitely pissed us all off when we had to work and others stayed home and still begged us to come work with a mask . This is coming from my guy friends as well, electricians , drywall, contractors……

[@litoreggie]

Also, a lot of this also goes for the healthcare system!!

[@TimErwin]

I worked through the covid shutdown because we warehouse workers were considered "essential." I still got paid less than the white-collar workers who were sitting at home. Plus, nobody knew how deadly the virus was yet, so we blue-collar workers were basically being asked to die for our greedy companies. Blue-collar workers get the worst of society, even though we're necessary for society to function. Young people see this hypocrisy. I don't blame them for running from this horrid industry.

[@Jack-Surreal_Panes]

Same. Tennis elbow #2. Clean as well. We cannot find anyone that wants to work.

[@litoreggie]

@@Jack-Surreal_Panes uugghhhh sorry to hear that. I just got back from the doctor and they keep telling me to rest and wear the brace . The brace makes the pain way worse and if I rest I don’t get a paycheck. They told me I’m at the point where there is no other option but surgery for my back. Sucks!

[@atheinasophiajade1044]

Yep I'm 40, youngest on job.

[@garychlastawa8277]

I'm a mechanic on large stationary machines. Love the work, but when I first started out some of the old guys were awful (not all) and didn't want to show me anything, as if they would be less valuable if I learned how to do it too. I got frustrated and burnt out, went back to school and got a desk job(and debt). It was ok, but after a few years I went back to my old job. Some of the people I had problems with were gone. Now I'm approaching middle age and I share everything I know about the job with the new workers.

[@jamesbohling4864]

It was a generational thing. I had the same issues in manufacturing. Had a lead engineer tell me 'If I train you, they don't need me anymore. "

[@kelpking4484]

Thats how it was for me when i started working at my first shop no one wanted to show me nothing its like bro im 19 bro why you being mean now im one of the only guys left from then and every new guy asks me questions cause im not mean and i dont yell at them and i actually just show them its so dumb how a job says on site training but then they act like youre dumb

[@CW91]

Happens everywhere when the seniors hold on to their knowledge as the only saving grace. Even management can't do anything about this because the senior can just get up and leave with all the knowledge, knowing they are "irreplaceable".

[@northwestWW]

The trades aren’t getting looked at because it’s so hard to get into the trades. As an electrician myself I find it difficult to explain how to even tell other people to get in. Then the other trades still require you to buy all your own tools and still don’t pay that great. We need this failure to fix these problems and barriers to entry.

[@mikecaprock9684]

Yes the barriers to entry are very challenging. Tried to get started but impossible. You need a dedicated mentor. Dogged determination. And a willingness to starve for a few years.

[@JBeeship]

Not to mention the ratio of skilled craftsman to just people earning a paycheck is totally off balance. When I worked at the IBEW if there was 300 guys at the Hall, maybe 60 were worth a damn. Then you also have some blatant sexism, of men refusing to teach women solely based on their gender, because they know they will leave in a few years. Same for younger kids so maybe that is ageism? I have been an electrician for 13 years now, and there are different levels to it. It's also difficult to teach somehow how to think for themselves, outside the box, solid troubleshooting and blueprint skills. Not to mention the lingo is difficult if you are hoping in-between industries but still doing electrical.

[@kelvinreyes64]

The working class has been screwed for years. The system incentivizes being poor and being an owner/investor. The middle class has the highest tax rate and the cost of living is/has been slipping out of their grasp. The federal reserve and the gov needs to make changes if they want more ppl working.

[@TimErwin]

Incentivizes being poor? You have no idea how much the poor go hungry and suffer in this country. Americans (specifically Boomers) have tried hard to eliminate social safety nets because those are "unfair." Nobody is helping the poor in this inflation crisis. We've given everything to the rich and corporations, and now everyone else is screwed.

[@kelvinreyes64]

@@TimErwin food stamps, public housing, section 8, public school system, shelters, food banks, medicaid. All paid by the taxpayers. Go to a 3rd world country to see REAL poverty.

[@TimErwin]

@Kelvin Reyes It's obvious you don't interact with the poor in your own country. Most avoid even going to the doctor because they can't afford it. But sure, just rattle off some social programs and pretend they're filling in the blanks. Your youth are realizing they'll be perpetually poor under this current system. And no, saying "other people are poorer" will not stop them from tearing everything down as things get worse.

[@jimba6486]

The FED needs to go. For the changes to come. I believe they exist to rob our wealth and transfer it to the elite. Unless the house of cards fall on its own. They ain't making changes

[@kelvinreyes64]

@@jimba6486 I agree

[@J19118]

Here’s the problem. Some welding jobs pay $19 an hr Meanwhile warehouse and even forklift jobs pay $24 an hr and up. Welding takes skill and is a major health hazard. Wages are stagnant in some skilled trades.

[@zoeylamant8298]

I’m a union laborer in Philadelphia. I’ve been trying to get into ironworkers, steam fitters, carpenters, and electricians unions for years. I’m not a racial minority, and I’m not a woman, so the union doesn’t get paid by the govt to hire me. I also don’t have a father or uncle in those unions ahead of me. I’m young, capable, and willing to learn, but I’m being gatekept out of making a better career for myself. A lack of people willing to do the work is part of the issue, the major part is the unions. The nepotism and unnecessary red tape they put up are a major roadblock for people trying to better themselves.

[@MauriceB-zn5pv]

The corrections are extreme but this is exactly what black people went through for decades and still go through. “Minority” is a broad term. Welcome to the club.

[@90kevin20]

Spent 13 years in machining to watch fast food wages rise faster. I finally left and now i make more cleaning pools than i ever made in machining. And i was damn good at machining.

[@SALEEN961]

When I was in high school I had to fight to go to tech school, everyone told me I was throwing my life away and that I'd never amount to anything unless I went to college. I wasn't just a case of kids not being recruited by people in the trades, it was issue of parents and teachers refusing to let kids even consider it as an option.

[@trainsandlocomotives]

I worked on the Railroad and struggled for 6 years before I let it go. Too many older railroaders don’t retire when able and they hold everyone from moving up. They get into a good position and stay there. Many young people (like myself) get stuck in the worst position’s while going through layoffs until we give up and find better positions. Railroads have a hard time hiring and keeping people. There times I came into work to here older people joke about a “buy out” and I was furloughed a week later. Railroad retirement age is 60 for full benefits and there are people there who have 40-50 years in working way past 60. There’s young people on the 24/7 on call extra board with a Monday off Day and been there for over 4 years. If I didn’t handle my money right, I’d be homeless with messed up credit because of the amount of times I have been Furloughed. Some people went into debt when they got furloughed but I was still able to save and invest because I lived on less. I even had to work in the next city driving 70 miles to get to work and during Covid I’d work with other young people who slept in the company parking lot and drove home on the weekends just to keep on working and I was prepared to do the same. Young people want to work but they aren’t interested in working without progress.

[@jimba6486]

I could take a guess why people don't want to work the railroad. Aside from the lack of "status" Yall don't get sick days. The job is a bell to bell grind. You basically described moral decay of young people as dispensible to the old who put their time. I'll be frank, that doesn't appeal to me. I have respect for the people who do the work because they literally keep the economy moving. I am actually upset that the Dems union busted the railroad workers because they didn't want the economy to hurt. God forbid their food and amazon packages arrive a little late because people wanted a sick day if they needed one.

[@eniak00]

Here’s the thing: in order to be a successful auto mechanic, plumber, electrician, carpenter, etc. requires you to have a certain aptitude for those types of services. Many associated with the Ramsey Solutions organization seem to act like these are jobs anyone could be trained to do and that is just not the case. I am not one of these people but I can do some small repairs to my car if need be. That does not make me a candidate to be an auto mechanic. I feel this concept is lost on some on this show.

[@Piccolo_Re]

Yeah I agree. They act like anyone can do this type of work. You have to have really good problem solving ability, critical thinking, and memory to do this type of work. Building or repairing something wrong can get someone killed if you don’t know what you’re doing.

[@davidquiros1401]

Agreed!

[@mph5896]

The passion has to be there. No passion, just give up and move on.

[@KeatonDee]

Absolutely. I am an elevator mechanic of 9 years. I build them for a living. I see guys come and go from this trade, it’s still a 4 year apprenticeship program with lots of exams. We are dealing with public safety and we cannot cut corners. It’s not an easy job like some might think.

[@donaldlee6760]

I find your comment spot on. I also enjoy working on my family cars doing somewhat complex jobs, such as replacing a press-in wheel bearing and up to a timing belt on my wife's Toyota Highlander Hybrid. Even though I likely could be a successful car mechanic, I'm glad that I graduated college with a degree in genetic engineering and currently work as a software engineer in Silicon Valley. The money is plenty good enough but more importantly I work at a place where people are far more brilliant than myself.

[@BryceCorbitt]

Couldn't agree more. I don't work a trade myself, but I have the utmost respect for people who do.

[@edhcb9359]

You have the upmost respect for those that work a trade, but let’s be honest, your kids will be going to college.

[@BryceCorbitt]

​@@edhcb9359 I just finished paying off 115k of student loans. I am very grateful that I was able to pay it off working a job I get a lot of fulfillment from, but I'm not going to push my future children down the same path that I've taken. I work as a software engineer, but I also work with my hands raising and butchering chickens on the side. I see the value of blue-collar labor, and understand that many white-collar jobs like my own can't exist without it. My fiancé and I will also be homeschooling our future kids because we don't trust public schools of today to do it right.

[@edhcb9359]

@@BryceCorbitt Was that $115k of student loans for an undergrad degree? If so, then that was totally unnecessary. I’m not saying it was a bad choice, but it was unnecessary and you can’t say that college requires that debt.

[@edhcb9359]

@@cstuartdc Yep, because he doesn’t work a trade, that makes him a slave driving plantation owner in Georgia. 🙄

[@edhcb9359]

@@cstuartdc Sorry, I thought your post suggested that if people didn’t work a trade it meant that they are elitist and racist. If it was satire then I suggest you work on your writing skills because it wasn’t funny.

[@Sophie3647s]

There aren't any young people because the pay entering for most (unless nepotism) is awful, plus typically involves being outdoors, or going outdoors, regardless of the weather. My boyfriend was in construction and realized he could make more with a degree on a computer behind a desk rather than doing manual label

[@diggernash1]

Don't feed them and, suddenly, they will want to work. Hunger trumps low pay.

[@Delliofreight]

I agree with you. I'm back in school pursuing my degree. Cause these jobs don't pay next to anything while the folks on top, which have never even touch a hammer, can get rid of your employment with a snap of a finger. We’re not considering the trades because nobody wants to work for little to no money and in all types of weather.

[@garrettjones8017]

Well shit you can make 50 to 100 bucks an hour in the trades. And if that's not enough you can start your own business. Plus working outside is good for you

[@northwestWW]

💯

[@reesercliff]

@@diggernash1 did you not read? He is working at a computer for more money. Or are you suggesting his boss should force him not to eat?

[@brookswoodward7278]

My ex-wife was in the military. Our first base was across the country I took the first job I could get on the base. It was delivering pizza. One day she had told me "I don't know why you're smiling you work at dominos" that will stick with me forever. There's a classest problem in society.

[@atheinasophiajade1044]

Damn I see why she an ex wife.

[@oldbowsaw9001]

@@atheinasophiajade1044 New how to encourge her husband alright--Mine said I needed to get a new job that paid more money-I am 60--been heavy diesel mechanic cat 40+--really love my job!!!!! today--9.00 to 7.00 pm--repairing it with my tools and knowledge God blessed me with!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@coldestwaters]

Idk why she said anything, she’s military lol not making a whole lot more than him.

[@coldestwaters]

Idk why she said anything, she’s military lol not making a whole lot more than him.

[@sstrongman1667]

I was with you until the end. The $25-40/hr that he quoted in the video was for the “owner” of an independent carpentry business. That was the whole point of the video. Why do carpentry for half the pay of plumbing?

[@zell863]

Because it is what the market allows us to charge. Carpenter contractor here.

[@sstrongman1667]

@@zell863 agreed man, I’m asking why do carpentry when you could do electrical or plumbing and make way more.

[@zell863]

@@sstrongman1667 Need go in school for it. However like self employed I'm at 50$ hour now.

[@creeper2054]

It is a time/work/compensation equation. How you value your time versus the work you are going to do with compensation factoring in. It is hard to compete with so many do nothing influencer jobs that are provided through sites like this one. You can't just say "There used to be so many people in the trades." Well, there used to be no internet. There used to be affordable college. And there used to be affordable Healthcare. Things change and only way to address these problems is to get serious about fixing them. Give people incentives to go into trades. Don't just assume that because we have always had people in them, it will always be that way. We assumed the same about college and Healthcare, and look where that got us.

[@ohnoitisnt]

I dont think anyone needs to do anything. Wages for everyone on the tools are rising fast, eventually the 'learn to code' crowd will be saying things like 'learn to weld'

[@creeper2054]

But how soon? Do we have a decade to wait?

[@girlygirl1890]

@creeper2054 FINALLY!!!!! Someone said what's really going on. Don't get me started about the "do nothing influencer jobs that are provided through sites like this one." And when you said "Well, there used to be no internet", you hit the nail on the head. In my opinion I feel as if that has been one of our major downfalls of our workforce in so many different ways. Everything you said is so true. Thank you for saying it.

[@rafaeltorres-rivera1669]

I got into plumbing and the gate keepers are making it really frustrating. I can see why young people aren’t getting it to it with the old guys hazing the new generation.

[@kgiessen2964]

This,right here. Thanks for the truth!

[@avernvrey7422]

STEM, engineering, programming, etc is 'harder' than being a carpenter. It's not the hard work that kids are trying to avoid, it's the low pay, full stop, there's your problem. The pay is still terrible. Maybe not after a decade if you get to the master level, but fortunately kids passed their econ classes and know about opportunity costs.

[@Lifeisshort2669]

It's pay and work life balance. As there are less workers, then newer workers will have more options and look at both. Also how difficult it is to get into. How long do you have to train or go to school for no or low wages will play a factor.

[@avernvrey7422]

@@Lifeisshort2669 you may get into the trades faster but you are also more likely to be pushed out of the trades faster due to health reasons, and at the worst time, the prime earning years, late 40s to early 60s. The up front cost may be higher for engineering, but that investment pays off with a much higher salary for longer, while it takes a decade in the trades to get to a level where you start earning the same as entry engineering. Even during this demographic drought, the trades will always have more competition for each job than STEM jobs. Precisely because trade jobs are easier to get into.

[@jimba6486]

This kid did right here. Finishing my degree in computer science without debt. Programming is a higher leverage opportunity as the future continues. Microeconomics is my favorite subject

[@j.hyatt2776]

That's the thing. In my experience, starting out, people wanna pay you peanuts to provide for your family.

[@matthewmitchell68]

I appreciate this, my father was a carpenter, he did the trades ALL his life. I never followed suit because of 2008 recession. I saw my Dad go through 3 years of semi unemployment, he had to pick up side jobs to survive and sometimes he was actually making less money than me.

[@mikeries8549]

Was a framing Carpenter. Had an off-site crew assembling walls at a shop on a table. Truck the walls to job-site and erect. I had enormous pride at the end of the day because I could literally look at what wasn't there this morning. It was hard work

[@jamesabestos2800]

Might wanna be a carpetener because I like the idea I'm doing something practical yet good-looking

[@JeremyKorzo]

I enrolled today to a trades school! Going for Plumbing license and planning on leaving my white collar behind and joining the blue collar industry!! 🇺🇸🛠️

[@Piccolo_Re]

Plumbing is a great trade to get into.

[@girlygirl1890]

@jeremy9928 good for you. So happy for you. There will never be a shortage of work. You did the right thing.

[@nathan-d8]

It's called a trade job because you dont need an education to get it. Go out and apply to these jobs, youll get hired and trained or join a union. Save your money

[@zefrum3]

@@nathan-d8 i kinda agree w/u but at same time the licensed trades look to hire young guys at Community Colleges and trade schools.

[@atheinasophiajade1044]

Your gonna love it down here with us.

[@truckingmoney485]

I’m 40 back in 2008 I was a carpenter and we all know what happened no work. I’ve been a truck driver since then. I was making about 30k as a carpenter with no benefits back then now I make about 120k as a truck driver with full benefits plus stock options. So no way am I going back to that .

[@Dicofol1]

Which company or industry do you work in for trucking ?

[@truckingmoney485]

I work for a private fleet. My company manufactures garage doors and we deliver directly to our customers. We are owned by a big company so our benefits are really good .

[@williamgomez5876]

Same here I worked construction with a promise to be trained in an excavator and scrapers and make big bucks eventually. A year in never stepped in an excavator even after asking over and over. My job was to do all the shovel work and keep the old farts happy not doing anything hard. Literally got paid less then starting wage at Walmart. The benefits sucked too no pto. Got my CDL and left the boss was so pissed saying I let him down when he needed me lol. Trucking was a blessing had 2 days pto in 3 months and was making more money. Never going back.

[@ravenrising]

I had my apprentice/intern go out on his own doing Rope Access after a few years. His first gig was 75 an hour to start. So he gets this and is crushing it.

[@scripsiscriptum524]

My grandfather worked for a large manufacturing company in the seventies, and used to do some of the hiring and training. He used to tell my mom, “We’re going to have a problem with the workforce.” In the nineties and early 2000s, my mom was a nurse manager at a large hospital and was responsible for a lot of the hiring and training. She used to tell me, “We have a problem with the workforce.” Since 2015 I’ve been running my own business and trying to hire. Now I’m seeing that we don’t really have a workforce. Our country is in trouble. Very soon, life is going to look a lot different for most people. And all those fancy college degrees aren’t going to help at all.

[@TimErwin]

I see the problem coming, too. Most of the essential jobs are going unfulfilled. These are the jobs society needs to function. But at the same time, blue-collar employers pay some of the lowest wages. Young men couldn't afford to work these jobs anymore if they wanted to.

[@scripsiscriptum524]

@@TimErwin the opposite is true of every tradesman I know, and after twenty years in business, I know a lot of business owners, most of them in the trades. They all have extremely high-paying jobs, but can’t find anyone qualified or interested in filling the position.

[@TimErwin]

@Scripsi Scriptum I live in the midwest and wages are low for even skilled trades here. I considered learning a trade a few years ago but most of the entry jobs and apprenticeships paid like $15/hr. And some even wanted years of experience for these low-paying positions. I just did a search on Indeed for "welder" and the average pay is $22/hr. Some start at $19/hr and top off at $22/hr. I saw the same thing years ago when I still cared about the blue-collar industry. I talk to other young men and they feel the same way I do. We know blue-collar isn't worth it for those wages. If we're going to be working poor, we figure we might as well just get an easy office or fast food job. At least then we're only financially broke instead of being physically broke, too. Or better yet, go to a tech bootcamp and easily get a tech job with a livable wage soon after.

[@johnmartin4641]

@@scripsiscriptum524 some trades may pay more early on in the career compared to college educated jobs, but later on, if you picked a good major like business administration and you gain enough experience to get promoted into upper management, you’ll make a lot more money than tradesmen, and it’s highly unlikely you’ll suffer a career ending injury in your office. Lots of people start to have back problems in their 40s. If you’re a businessman who works in an office, it’s not a big deal in regards to your career. If you’re in the trades, it could end your career. My friends and I that majored in business administration made anywhere between $450,000-millions of dollars later on in our careers. And we had lots of company stock that paid us a lot in dividends, so in total income between our annual compensation package and dividends from company stock we were awarded, we’re talking $650,000-millions. Trades typically top out somewhere between $100,000-$200,000.

[@lukeskywalkerlucasfilm]

@@TimErwin Exactly, right on! "Pay them, and they will come!" -Field of Dreams 🤣

[@jimmyglea]

I’m 48 and my body is broken from 30 years of HVAC. I’m currently in my second year pursuing a bachelors degree in accounting. Manual labor is fine unless you know you’re going to have to work into your 80’s.

[@warrenreed6702]

Trades don't pay. Hard work low pay and no benefits. I made just under 40k in construction left to work warehouse and made 65k with benefits.

[@scottbrown7415]

Most public schools were actively shutting down their wood and metal shop classes in the mid to late 1970's. There was a hard push for college prep from Councilors.

[@andredaedone7732]

I am a tradesman, been my whole life. Retired now. And do my own work on everything from cars, to houses, electronics. I do it all. But only for me and my daughter, if she is nice to me. 😂.

[@johnkirisits6380]

I’m in the trades. Electrician. Well I was. Absolutely loved it. However, trades will destroy your body. I have bad knees, back, and hips. I think younger people see older guys destroying their body, and they don’t want any part of it.

[@edhcb9359]

Exactly why I got out of pipe fitting in my twenties and finished college. Smartest decision I ever made! I

[@joylm9108]

So who is supposed to do these jobs that everyone is avoiding?

[@tylersanders2388]

Yeah this is a big reason I avoided it. A good family friend who has been our go-to handyman for decades is 50 and looks 65. He’s a wealthy guy these days but I want to work in a field that won’t cause me pain every day

[@edhcb9359]

@@joylm9108 Our open boarder is the reason why nobody wants to do these jobs(wages too low) and the reason why we won’t run out of workers to do these jobs at the same time.

[@R_W_Goodson]

@@joylm9108 Let’s start with YOU.

[@HomeschooledBlackGuy]

I’ve been DYIing my whole house that I bought in 2020. I’m relatively young, 34, and my dad taught me all the skills I needed to get started. I couldn’t even begin to imagine how horrible it would be to do this as a job with time crunches and chancing down delinquent payments. The only reason DYI works is because when I screw something up I get to take a step back and rethink the problem at my own pace. I couldn’t imagine trying to do this for a customer that was already upset with my quote. Hell, I wouldn’t even blame them. I have to figure out how to do stuff I thought I would have contracted because the prices are insane. $35k for a bathroom remodel or $4k in premium materials to do it myself (heated floors and all). $1.5k to fix superficial drywall cracks throughout the house or $40 for the materials and a sucky weekend (with materials to spare down the road). $1.9k to have a gas SHUTOFF VALVE installed or $200 to buy all of the plumbing tools I didn’t yet own and compressor to check pipe pressure seals. If not for the skills my dad passed down to me I would’ve sold this house at the height of the market and stuck to renting. I figure I’ve got another good decade left of pain free labor and I’ll definitely use it increasing the value of this home vs someone else’s.

[@tylersanders2388]

I am a bit younger than you but I am on the same page. I love doing work myself and taking time and solving issues but doing it professionally has to be stressful and it kills your body

[@screenprintman]

I am 61 and I taught my 30 year old Son everything I know about DIY, including Car Repairs. I was lucky to have a Dad like myself too. We replaced 40 bad shingles on my roof over the weekend, and I was pointing out to him that I never see any neighbors doing stuff like we do ever! To many People would rather pay someone else to do stuff for them!

[@mph5896]

Skilled people are able to bang out work in no time. The drywall work that might take you weeks will take a day or so for a skilled worker. I work in the medical field and do labor on my time off. I can start an iv and draw blood in a few minutes. 20 years of experience got me fast and really good at it.

[@1980maranda]

I’ve always been fascinated with woodworking. Cabinetry, shelves, tables, you name it. I’ve always wanted to learn but I never bothered because I figured I wouldn’t be welcome because I’m a woman. I think carpentry is a work of art. I had the inside of a log cabin take my breath away because of the intricate details.

[@lenetteshaw4833]

I personally know three women that are in or retired from construction. Roofing, carpentry and plumbing. They work hard and the guys on their crews tend to work faster so that they don't get teased about being outworked by a female. Women also , in general, are more attentive to detail. If it's something you would enjoy doing, then make it happen. You don't want to have regrets for not even giving it a shot when you are 80.

[@nicomyth]

I feel that Ken missed the whole point of the carpenter 's video. PAY is the big issue! The "dime a dozen" mentality has to change and it will change. Get ready to pay 2-3 times more for trade services. The few left working in these fields will be able to charge top dollar because they will be your only option. Just try to find a plumber in your area NOW and good luck 👍. These fields require years of on the job experience. They are craftsman and for too long we have paid them poverty wages.

[@treeroofgrass]

Yup! my parents always discouraged blue collar jobs. If we were to cross paths with road construction workers, my folks would always say, “finish college, you don’t wanna work a hard job like that…..”

[@epizan]

To get more people in the trades they have to pay more. If someone goes into a trade and does it for a living, as far as I know, they will eventually be forced out from injury. I am talking by 58. So they have less than 40 years to not only raise and support a family but by 58 have to be able to live off of dividends. It also has to be worth it for someone to live every day for the next 30-40 years in CONSTANT pain, terrible sleep and ringing in their ears and having a stream of doctors to deal with until the day they die. I would rather that my kids never go into the trades unless they have a plan to exit within 10 years.

[@maxpeckham966]

Paying your dues is expected but as far as toxic coworkers you could be screwed just having to be with them all day every day

[@thepresentmoment369]

This is unfortunately a rampant problem. And that boils down to our society needing better mental healthcare or getting younger generations therapy as they grow up.

[@jejunamja]

I like how the people who talk about trades or people that have jobs where they sit and talk you don’t have to get up and move all day and drive to different locations every other day and then when you hit about 50s and 60s your body tells you you’ve been doing physical work, and you just have to live with the pain

[@RodrRodr-tx5lq]

Was thinking the same thing. It’s easy to sit behind a microphone all day and tell people they should destroy their body and health. I operate my own landscaping business and work solo most of the time. I have reached a 6 figure pay after a decade of building a customer base but my body is screaming and telling me to stop but I can’t because it’s hard to find people who want to do this kind of work and I don’t blame them.

[@zanizone3617]

Right? The fact that nobody in the comments is picking up the irony is mind boggling. If it's so great, why this guy isn't resigning from his job with Ramsay and going pick up a hammer? 😂😂😂

[@liberalmadness7248]

It was a lot of these old men who told young men to work smarter not harder constantly.

[@jimba6486]

They changed it to "now working harder is working smarter"

[@sethgraham4836]

I wanted to be a carpenter but my Pastor who worked in the field for decades advised me against it because of layoffs.

[@Piccolo_Re]

A lot of businesses have lay offs though. I’ve been in manufacturing and healthcare, and I’ve seen people get laid off and/or forced out in both industries. No job is entirely secure ever.

[@nikkisigmon8090]

If you are skillful, there is demand. Aim for the work for higher end of sociey and there's less risk of being laid off from lack of work

[@reginaldsmith6949]

@Seth graham "I wanted to be a carpenter but my Pastor who worked in the field for decades advised me against it because of layoffs." For a moment, I thought you were setting us up for a Jesus joke...

[@chada75]

@@nikkisigmon8090 And Self-Employed.

[@anaroman1499]

The problem is training. Most companies do not want to train. They want to hire with degrees, 50 certifications and under 30 years old.

[@ocmetals4675]

My husband started in construction in his 20's while I built my career in web design. As soon as I made enough I helped him get out and transition into a tech career. The low wages and amount of disrespect in that industry was enough to never ever consider going back. We are now in our late 30's and pretty happy with our situation now. Notice how there are only crisis in industries where abuse is rampant. Teaching, Nursing, Retail, Construction, etc. No one is having a hard time filling positions for CEOs and politicians.

[@sconnyjoe5262]

I was in the trades for 12 years and I loved building things. But, the quality of everything: workers, materials, jobs and customers went south. It got to the point where other paths were just more attractive and lucrative.

[@the_truck_farmer]

I think the labor shortage is a multi pronged problem...1) labor is hard 2) Labor wages that aren't union or a skilled/certified trade don't pay enough to provide even modest household income. Was bad before recent inflation now its impossible. (both spouses must work= people overlook jobs that cant provide for thier families needs) 3) bad Stigma towards labor over the last generation or two. 4) lots of families want to homeschool now due to crazy things happening and taught in public school. Need one sufficient income to cover the house for that... 5) Trades jobs are set up to take several years to raise wages commensurate with experience level. In the Midwest where I live that often means starting at $12-15/ hour. Only person who can afford to live on that is a single person living with family or roommates

[@TimErwin]

I've seen the wages in the midwest for trade jobs. You're lucky to find one over $20/hr. That wage and below will only put you in the poor house these days.

[@jejunamja]

I’ve been a wall covering contractor for almost 40 years and I don’t recommend people to get in the trades. There’s a raced towards paying less with no benefits as in retirement or health or holiday pay.

[@jackmehoff5523]

I started as a carpenter in 1980 at $4 bucks an hour 18yrs old living at home with mom n pop. Stuck with it for twenty years. The went into supervising commercial construction sites. Present salary just about 150k. I haven't missed a days salary in twenty years since starting in site supervision. All holiday and vacation sick time paid. In this line of work experience and years on the job pays big. I'm 60 and plan on working to 70 and the see how I feel maybe work to 80. It's a great career. If you have 5 years of carpentry experience don't hesitate to send the resume to large commercial builders looking for site supers.

[@jacobmansfield-go9fz]

@@TimErwin 20/hr doesn't qualify for any apartments

[@twiston43]

The same people who were telling us a Decade ago to get a MBA are now telling us that we should have gotten into Trades...

[@82weeks94]

💯...yes all trades are dying. I'm in automotive industry.... nothing but older guys a few young guys but not nearly enough. What has happened is that society has glorified office and computer 🖥️💻 work PLUS backing it up with the pay. Trade labors just don't pay enough and has not kept up with the living wage. A lot of men have checked out of working.

[@FrankieJames7]

You can make 200 an hour from a craigslist post working on cars for yourself everyday of the week. I'm from Alaska, and can work on cars in -20f. Why would any of us work for 14 dollars an hour?

[@josefj1776]

I left that industry as an Auto tech as the more you know the less you make.

[@daveassanowicz186]

Cars are on their way out anyways

[@joecarey4356]

Work is not rewarding. It's a nightmare for most.

[@comptech8039]

Around here the manual labor is mostly done by Manuel.

[@Troph2]

Been a welder for 15 years, the only people who suggest trades are people sitting at a desk who have never done it.

[@Eugen963]

Pay trades $50/hr there will be no shortage of workers

[@nancyt6895]

I'm 50 years old and I saw this coming even back in the 80s and 90s. Another issue adding to the problem is the population pyramid is turning upside down. It's not just in the trades, but many industries and countries. The re-population rates are decreasing everywhere.

[@TimErwin]

A lot of trades still pay terrible wages that don't even allow young men to afford a studio apartment. Even worse, is how so many entry-level or apprenticeships ask for years of experience when the pay is already rock bottom. The greed of employers has driven young people away from trades.

[@ThatGuy-mu2rr]

Two words for the population replacement crisis; family law

[@chriscampbell9191]

@@ThatGuy-mu2rr Truth. Seen it.

[@chriscampbell9191]

No re-population problem in the southern hemisphere. So It's not everywhere.

[@maxpeckham966]

Im 24 few years out of welding school and it’s rough. Yeah sure you can become a part of a union or company employee etc but when you do that know they have “family-like” values a LOT of the time except picture their family values are “hate wife, drink beer, smoke cigs, disrespect poc, cat call in front of you at work, stare at underaged kids at work?! Toxic stuff. Like some of the people in the trades I’ve met are not some of the most respectable gentlemen I’ve met in my life I’ll be honest. But they walk around making impressions on young folks starting out and possibly making them switch careers. Because it also doesn’t pay much sometimes.

[@TimErwin]

I worked in a lot of blue-collar jobs and noticed the same thing. My coworkers in blue-collar jobs were some of the most ignorant, toxic, and disrespectful men I've ever met. At least in office jobs, people have boundaries. In blue-collar, there are none.

[@sinebar]

When I was studying to be an engineer, the technical college I went to offered a machine shop course and I signed up for it. That shop course taught me more about design than any of the engineering books they gave us. There was something about hands on making the things I was learning to design that I couldn't have gotten in a book. I'm now in medical school after losing my job during the pandemic but I will always look back on that machine shop course as a valuable lesson, not only as a skill but a life lesson.

[@Me-eb3wv]

Trans lives matter ✊🏾

[@nancymiller4383]

It’s the same with ALL health professions. Healthcare workers are leaving left and right because of more work with less pay. I heard it’s even bad with accountants. Anyone with number skills is going into coding, so accounting firms can’t even find accountants. Our lifestyles will have to adjust with fewer of these types of workers. We will have to wait longer for services.

[@avernvrey7422]

That's correct about accounting. Has never been this bad, the largest firms can't find enough workers because the starting pay hasn't increased in over a decade.

[@travmanbrett5338]

I have never met a poorly paid medical professional in the USA

[@chada75]

Money Talks, BS Walks.

[@MrSilence99]

@@travmanbrett5338 I have. I had a friend who even went through schooling for her position and she was paid retail wages by the hospital. Now she is working for a medical clinic and has been promoted to the lead position and still isn't making much more.

[@cathrynm]

My grandfather was a carpenter in old days, but it's a dead end. You're better off getting into HVAC, plumbing, electrician, something like that -- just based on acquaintances and how well they seem to be doing.

[@JTDyer21]

Well it's all jobs. Employers simply don't want to pay real money to allow a man to support a family and make a good living. I've tried multiple times to get various jobs but employers don't want to hire or pay. I guess they see me as threat to take their job as I'm more than willing to bust it to work really hard to get projects done extra early. Apparently they don't like that for some reason. I don't get it.

[@istvanpraha]

I'm a middle manager and the older VPs don't get inflation. They think $70K is high because they used to make it and lived well but don't get that that means you need roommates nowadays

[@1stworldrefugee443]

I've been noticing this for awhile now. Several jobs later as middle management and every time, I'm always the "young guy"... I'm 40 now and still hearing this

[@josefj1776]

Welcome being the millennial. At the HVAC company I work at I am the oldest. We are all millennials.

[@atheinasophiajade1044]

Same here 40 and youngest on the job.

[@AJReese-wb7xe]

They are closing wood shops in schools due to insurance and other money requirements. I don't have a shop at home. I used one neighborhood "club" type shop before Covid, but that one closed out its shop time rental. All the other wood shops in the area are basically 9a-5pm, M-F, and I'm not retired. I'm pricing out setting up my own shop at home but I really don't have the space or the electrical connections for it. I do miss doing cabinetry work. If you were a young guy that didn't have a family with a home shop, I have no idea how you'd learn the trade. Have you noticed that most kids these days can't do anything with mechanical or trade-type skills? Not even change a tire. It does not bode well for the future.

[@jimba6486]

Pretty ironic. The schools use insurance and money requirements as an excuse yet that is why they exist in the first place right? They are their to educate the future workforce to integrate into society to meet the needs of society. That is nuts. Their not managing money well.

[@steveclark5016]

I feel the same way about Upholstering, for 38years, What I build every day is going to bring someone comfort and relaxation,and possibly an heirloom.

[@Lonewolf1961-s9z]

Great trade! I used to do it but then took a job selling the supplies to the trade. Now after 38 years, thinking of retiring and sitting back down at the sewing machine. Love working with my hands.

[@atheinasophiajade1044]

My best friends dad passed away, we used all his fabric swaths to make heirloom quilts for his daughters and grand baby's. The shop had been open 101 years when he passed. Our entire mountain, 100 family's were heart broken to see the ole shop close.

[@Landon_Hughes]

My stepbrother tried college for a semester. It wasn’t for him. He decided to go into the trades and become a plumber. I decided to get my associates in programming. I hated it. I had condescending and lazy professors and the information taught was mostly outdated. I consider myself self-taught. I am now a full-time software developer. College is NOT for everybody. Sometimes, you have to break away from the college system and do your own thing.

[@litoreggie]

I’m praying I can do the same to get out of my blue collar job. I’ve been diving into online courses after work every single night but Friday. I hope it pays off!

[@roninbruh]

Thank you so much for your comment. It inspires me to find my own route.

[@johnlightfoot4323]

I’m 27 years old, and I started doing Commercial HVAC at 22. In 5 years I went from making $9 and hour go $38 an hour and that’s more like 4 years it took me to get that pay rate. It got me from florida to Colorado and have provided me a skill I can use for life. I’m so glad I did it, but it is VERY taxing on your body. It takes alot of will power. I am now a dog trainer and own my own business and I will never go back to working for someone. I surpassed pay rates of guys who had 3x more experience than me, no one talks about the lack of pay and how people who own trade companies don’t want to pay their workers for the extreme hazard and environment you work in. Hard work doesn’t make you money, companies will exploit your lack of self worth for their personal monetary gain. KNOW YOUR WORTH. This being said, I made this money with no student debt and skills that help me in all facets of life. I got my 4k trade school paid for and worked during the day and went to school at night. Trades are amazing, but don’t go in blind. It’s very hard work but it so worth it until it isn’t. If any of you need advice or questions on breaking into HVAC I’m happy to help.

[@j1170062]

Well said. As an old friend of mine who owns a business in the trades once said. " You will never make it working for someone else." Unfortunately, running your own business is not for everyone. I have heard the mantra from many of my middled aged business owner friends in the trades. "I just can't find good help." When I ask what they would pay for an experienced tradesman its pathetic. You can't make a living on it. However, the owner buys a new truck every year, takes long vacations, has a huge house, lots of toys, two vacation homes, and a couple of side hustle businesses. Smart, hardworking people see that and can do math. I don't feel sorry they can't find people to work for them. I'm not against business owners who put in the hard work and time to build a business and want to reap some rewards but you have to be careful. Unlike the CEO of a large company you are not far enough removed from your employees.

[@johnlightfoot4323]

@@j1170062 I think it’s also okay to work for someone and it’s not possible for everyone to own their own company. Some people don’t want the stress. I myself wouldn’t have tried to open an hvac company. But I think you’re spot on, you have to be careful with your money and how much you celebrate the fruits of your labor while trying to balance employee pay and or money into the business. It’s a vicious see saw effect, but it can be done well. Sometimes you have to take less pay for a better work environment, just because I made more didn’t mean I liked who I worked for. There is something to be said for people who work in trade for a long time, it takes a certain amount of willpower to do that. For me it was tough and not worth it. But I never would have got to where I am without it! And now I don’t have to call trade companies if something goes bad in my house! Haha

[@mph5896]

@@j1170062 I have seen plenty of 1 man companies making bank. One of the harder parts is dealing with employees. That in itself is a full time job baby sitting everybody.

[@josefj1776]

I got into HVAC two years ago at $17 an hour no healthcare and I might get about $25 an hour topped out. Here you can start at McDonald at $17 an hour.

[@mph5896]

@@josefj1776 Where do you live? Doing installs or repair? Seems REALLY low.

[@Aeternum_Gaming]

*job pays $14 an hour when rent for a 1bdrm is $2,000 a month* where did all the labor go?!?

[@michaele8896]

The problem is the pay rate. The work interests me too, and I do this work around my own house as a hobby, but as a job it does not pay enough to live anywhere near where I live. The pay needs to more than double.

[@alexsmith7313]

I’m a welder. I went to three years of tech in my high school years in a hybrid program and graduated highly placed. I’m 21. The reason I’m not working is cause the hours would rip me in half, work-life wise. People everywhere in my town are whining about not having welders but when I tell them I’ll work for lower than the full time rate (which is already way too damn low) just to do 3 10-Hour or even 12-hour days a week instead of 5 8-hour days, they don’t wanna hear it. The reason we don’t wanna work is cause the current work culture is completely inflexible and infuriating to negotiate.

[@jalamela1480]

The pay sucks. How can someone with 10+ years of experience make $20 an hour?

[@jasonmoquin]

A lot of the stories I've read in the comments mirrored my youth, as well. Started out working on my father's construction crew when I was about 10, as he wanted me to get into the profession he was. Unfortunately, his body was wrecked by his 30's and died at 41 from cancer. I dabbled a little, but learned very quickly that I could make far more money in the professional world, and so I did that.

[@burritogod59]

The labor "shortage" has been created by lack of pay. As pay increases more people are willing to do the job. If the job is harder the pay has to be more. It's simple. Don't make it complicated.

[@grandcanyon2]

i agree there is no shortage, they just want to pay entry or 1 year apprentices bad wages , so bad in fact folks at warehouses and grocery stores make the same or more.

[@genglandoh]

I am a project engineering working for a consulting company. Our customers are in the food, chemical, paper and mining industries. All of our customers are having problems finding young people to work in operations of their plants. They are looking for people who know how to fix things and willing to work shift work. These are high paying union jobs with good benefits. The past few years some companies have been asking their employees not to take vacations because they do not have enough people to cover the shifts. They get extra pay but at some point more money is not the issue, they want time to enjoy life. Some of our customers had to shut down production because they did not have enough people. We also saw this in the railroad industry where we almost had a national strike. The issue was about getting time off not more money.

[@TimErwin]

I worked in a lot of blue-collar jobs in the past years, and they usually overworked people, treated workers like trash, and paid wages so low that it kept everyone in constant poverty. My coworkers at any blue collar job were some of the poorest, most desperate people you've seen. And most could only afford either broken-down cars or bus rides, to work. Most had dingy clothes because they couldn't afford better ones. However, the management and owner all had shiny cars and none of them were missing any meals. Labor jobs these days play slave wages, and I'm glad people are refusing to be exploited just to make a greedy rich person even richer.

[@chemtrooper1]

“Pay your dues…” I heard this crap for 15 years in the oil and gas industry 🙄. Seen too many injuries where the company runs you off after they see their worker’s comp insurance premiums increase dramatically. If I’m being asked to sacrifice my health and well-being for a hard job, then I want to be well compensated and have actual health care that won’t bankrupt me when the leukemia sets in. Purpose and meaning? Money talks and bullshit walks… It’s so easy to say this behind a microphone in an air-conditioned studio. Why don’t you just learn to fix your own A/C and plumbing like the rest of us have to? KZbin and Google exists. Now going to school for cybersecurity degree, should have done it 15 years ago.

[@stepanvinnikov6024]

My total package is 110 dollars as electrician in Seattle. It’s not worth it. Pain vs gain pain wins over pain.

[@tedjohnson4451]

I'm a 60 y/o Middle School Head Custodian... People that WANT to work & can pass the Background Check are few and far between. Ages of my co-workers is 60,48,44 & 38 in the three Schools I carry keys for... I'm the most experienced Custodian [27 years] in our District & train newer staff in Restoration Cleaning... In my Department we are ALMOST fully staffed... The District as a whole, we are 20% under staffed [110 vacant positions] mostly in Educational Support. Transportation & Food Service are also in need. I don't see myself working more than another three to five years... I'll take my Pension & Social Security & find a Tropical Beach.

[@captainsunbear5472]

i am a young guy in the trades, its nearly impossible to learn anything, all these old timers are afraid of me taking their jobs and won't teach me anything.

[@hoghs1]

Im with the guys who just gave up. I completely understand it. They can have a great life without slaving away for someone to go buy another boat. Its not immaturity its a realization the effort doesnt match the reward. Not even close.

[@S41GON]

The current cohorts of young people are significantly smaller too, that could be another factor behind this.

[@MrBobDobolina]

When I was growing up all the trade jobs were asking for 10+ years of experience. The trades did this to themselves by not priming the pipeline for 20+ years.

[@jamesp2391]

I started with a framing company as a laborer. Didn't get paid much but listened to the other framers saying we should do this we need that there is work here. They never did anything about it, but I did. That was years ago. Within about 6 months of leaving them I was making 11 times what I was as a laborer. It is hard work but so is working a full day at a gas station as a clerk for what I make in an hour. That is harder work. I can work a long day and make what that clerk makes in two weeks of nearly full-time work.

[@gregcampbell1729]

I actually lean to the right, but the electricians union gave me a chance when others wouldn’t. They not only taught me a trade, but they gave me a insured paid career while doing it.

[@animebodypillow2959]

You’re telling me that manual labor, risk of injury, and death for the $40K a year isn’t a good sell? I hope you can smell the sarcasm

[@thetricksterpill]

Lol

[@grandcanyon2]

lol as a construction laborer is so funny

[@alanlilly77]

At the construction sites in my city about 80% of the crew is Hispanic. This is why politicians don't want to implement a real, sensible and consistent immigration policy. Mexicans and Salvadoreans will fill in the gaps until more young Americans can be recruited to enter the construction industries.

[@avernvrey7422]

Immigration, as a percentage, has been declining since 2007. The rate of growth of legal (and illegal) immigrants is going down, not up. All while 4000 more workers are retiring than entering the work force each DAY.

[@chriscampbell9191]

@@avernvrey7422 According to DHS, the numbers of legal immigrants held steady (around 1 million to 1.1 million a year) from 2001 to 2019. One million a year over a 19 year period is at least 19 million people. The numbers of legal immigrants did drop during the Pandemic. Legal immigrants, of course, can work in the US. Illegal immigration gives a slightly different picture, as the official stats only include apprehensions at the border. After ranging between 1-1.5 million apprehensions during the 1990s, the numbers of apprehensions dropped to around 300K-500K a year until they began to climb after 2018. As we all are aware, illegal immigrants often find some work in the U.S., and CBP has reported that in some sectors thousands cross the border illegally every week, and do not get apprehended.

[@avernvrey7422]

@@chriscampbell9191 I believe everything that you wrote largely supports what I wrote. 'held steady' means a flat (0%) rate of growth on inbound, and it also means a declining (negative) rate, as a percentage of the population. I wrote, "Immigration, as a percentage, has been declining since 2007." Guess it has also been declining since 2001, ...ok. As you point out, the number of illegal immigrants caught crossing into the US has been trending down for decades (till a recent spike, and I would attribute that largely due to the economic disasters in Cubu, Venezuela, and the collapse of the state in Haiti.)

[@chriscampbell9191]

​@@avernvrey7422 You mentioned that immigration has been dropping, "as a percentage," and you are figuring it as a percentage of the overall US population. However, as I pointed out, from DHS statistics, legal immigration held steady for almost 20 years, giving the US just shy of 20 million new people. If you truly think that many, if not most, of those 20 million weren't used by business to fill jobs at lower labor cost, as the OP alluded to, you may be mistaken. I know people who work in construction and roofing. They're all Mexican/Salvadoran workers. They didn't used to be. Not that the fact the workers are Mexican / Salvadoran is bad (I have friends who are Mexican, Mexican-American and Salvadoran), but it's just fact. All the landscaping, construction and roofing crews I see are Hispanic. In the 1980s they were white, black, and Asian in my area. The labor force has changed, and immigration is a massive part of that change. And actually the "greater population" (native born Americans of all races) have been having less kids since the 1990s. According to data, the birth rate declined after 1989, up until the Pandemic hit, when it spiked slightly. So I'm not certain how much of the percentage you mention really comes into play, and I don't think it matters, because I think the OP's observation is largely accurate. In fact, when the Immigration Act of 1990 was first being debated in Congress, the need for more workers (due to the projected Gen X labor shortage, which they believed would hit in the 2000s) was mentioned as a reason to open up immigration.

[@avernvrey7422]

@@chriscampbell9191 "held steady" while the US population has been increasing. So, as a percentage, legal immigration is decreasing. Let's quantify this. The population in 2000 was 281M, and in 2018 it was 327M. The number of legal immigrants stayed flat at 1M. So, that's 0.36% in 2000, down to 0.31% in 2018. Illegal immigration was decreasing as well, significantly so since the highs in 2000, and it really crashed during 2020, but there has been a strong rebound since 2021. Much of that strong increase is coming from nations besides the northern triangle countries and Mexico. I would say largely due to the factors I mentioned before; national problems in Cuba, Venezuela, and Haiti.

[@gregfrede1513]

Ive been a machinist for 40 years there is no young guys to take my place , it’s dirty and and hard work, but making a part is very rewarding to me i love doing it

[@benkenny3220]

Around 2018 a college said Master Carpenters were making $13hr. At that same time you could work at a fast food place making 12 hr.

[@Me-eb3wv]

Low ROI. Sad.

[@NotShowingOff]

Telling individuals to “work harder” to save the trades and fill a labor shortage, misses the point as to why there is a labor shortage.