The Long Con You Are Missing: The Insidious Dangers of WotC

[@RealLifeIronMan]

Their mistake is they don't understand their product. In business we have something called "barrier to entry". In simple terms it refers to how difficult it is to reproduce an existing product and enter the specific market for said product. The video game market has a high barrier to entry because video games typically cost millions to produce. In other words, only a select few entities can invest that much money and even fewer can produce games of minimum market quality. This is all to say, compared to other markets, there is relatively little competition in the video game market if you, as a business, are able to break into it. Having less competition means video games companies can demand higher prices. The market for TTRPG's however has a very low "barrier to entry". The main products of a TTRPG are very easy to reproduce by nearly anyone. The only barrier in the past was getting enough marketing for your books, but social media has minimized that barrier. This means a layman with their own book and enough social media presence can relatively easily enter the TTRPG market and be successful. Circling back, this means Dnd does not have as much control of the market as it once did. The only advantage they have is their brand name recognition. If the value of that brand decreases, they have little competive advantage over their competitors. And that ultimately means, if WotC raises prices too much, they can very easily lose their competive edge. There are already dozens of other popular TTRPG's and a limitless number of potential competitors on the way.

[@yarnevk]

@qtsssim barriers to entry does not refer to expense cost that impacts selling price, it refers to how difficult it is to achieve success. You can have wild success for something that did not take much time and effort in tabletop compared to the huge massive effort a video game takes that can be a spectular failure. Only rarely do you get a small shop having a video game hit, but this can easily happen in tabletop. Just look at how many kickstarted video games are failure to deliver, but there are many successful tabletop kickstarters.

[@arandomnamegoeshere]

And that's the entire publishing industry - from TTRPGs to novels. Anyone can write a novel. Many people can get one published. But what use is that if nobody knows about your book?

[@TheMapleTable]

but if you can control the barrier to entry by controlling the product and distribution?

[@Borzogo]

Ironically the term "barrier of entry" exists in game design as well and TTRPGs like D&D have a very high barrier of entry compared to video games, in that context. Because it is complex and hard to play compared to video games. And it's one reason why monetizing TTRPG like you do a video game does not work. It's not the same target audience.

[@RealLifeIronMan]

@@Borzogo "barrier to entry" in this context means something completely different. But yes, I get what you are saying. Dnd may be trying to make it easier for potential customers to enter the TTRPG space by automating the mechanics and making it resemble a video game. But by that point, might as well just play a higher quality MMO RPG.

[@LexYeen]

Remember kids: Corporations are not your friends, even if they make that thing you like, and the _only_ language they understand is money. _They don't need to care _*_about_*_ the thing they sell,_ as long as they're making money.

[@Furzkampfbomber]

Which is why by now I only shrug and then ignore it, whenever gamers make a fuzz about the next overprized day-1 DLC or unfinised game that is released or lootbox scheme. Because I still remember that screenshot showing the members of a Steam group called 'Boycott MW 3!' on the date this game was released - and with all of them playing... MW3.

[@MrSpankyxiv]

That used to be true... now they care about share price. Sure Hasbro is down, atm, but vanguard and Blackrock are the majority shareholders... these entities are right next to the Money printer and continue to prop up Hasbro and Wotc.

[@arandomnamegoeshere]

WotC and DnD specifically was fine until it came to light how much money DnD was making. Then the questions arose; "how much growth?"

[@MyNameSZorG]

Thank you I'm telling my own table this very thing

[@TheMapleTable]

Its a danger to us all

[@isaacschmitt4803]

My fiancée and I were talking about this, and I came up with an analogy: WotC are like a child who did something wrong, understands that Mom and Dad are upset with them but not *why,* apologizes because they understand it will calm Mom and Dad down, maybe get them *out* of trouble, then goes and does the thing that got them in trouble in the first place again, starting the cycle all over again. The difference is that children usually figure it out eventually and can be steered out of their bad behavior. Corporations never learn.

[@Beer_goggles]

Almost right... More like that 1 parent, probably the mom, thinks that the child has done something wrong and is over reacting and being a whiny bitch... The dad rolls his eyes and gives the child a wink.. tells the child that mom will calm down soon More accurate I think

[@TimoRutanen]

Corporations don't learn because the corporation is not making any calls. There are people who make the calls, who will just move to another company if things to poorly.

[@dewulfe9913]

Not a bad analogy. A slightly different one is, they're like a criminal breaking a house, because they know it has a massive stash of jewelry. They keep getting caught trying to break in, and each time they go before the judge and lie "we're sorry, we made a mistake we _swear_ we won't do it again"....and then they go right back to planning how to do the burglary better, so they (hopefully) won't get caught the next time. Unrepentant thieves, lying through their teeth....

[@Borzogo]

That's a good analogy for this situation.

[@MaximusChivus]

@allksjndlkasjdkl im sorry but that analogy makes very little sense

[@JediNiyte]

Bro, this is INSANE! Have you heard what D&D Shorts had to say about it earlier today? Folks inside the company have been saying that nobody at WotC actually reads player feedback from the surveys. Not a single person. How effed up is THAT?!?! Even the Lords of the Nine Hells are like, "Damn. These people are REALLY messed up"...

[@LexYeen]

The only language that the people making these decisions understand is money. So stop giving them any.

[@Chainsawmainiac5]

He pinned a comment on that video saying he misunderstood and they do read feedback

[@a1pha_star]

@@Chainsawmainiac5 They only respond to backlash when things don’t go according to plan. If they listened to feedback, they never would have done this behind the community’s backs. It got leaked and that’s how the shitstorm started. Very naive to think they have your best interest at heart… It’s always about money.

[@MrChiddler]

You just believe anything you read that fits your existing prejudices. That’s why the internet is so toxic. People in echo chambers who don’t even know it. ‘Folks inside the company’. Which folks? Where is the evidence for this?

[@Chainsawmainiac5]

@@a1pha_star bro what? DND Shorts himself said that what he said in his video about the company not reading feedback is false and that people do read it. Y'all echoing sh!t from a guy who worked there back in fuggin 2011, over a decade a go saying they would laugh at feedback from kids.

[@sjmarlowgm]

If WotC thinks there is a firestorm of opposition against them, wait until they go to court and attempt to sue their own player base into submission.

[@TheMapleTable]

I hope that doesnt happen.

[@Funloverjef]

What player base? Most of DnD is based on pre-existing facts and lore. The mechanics cannot be protected. That leaves setting and some nonessential rules we CAN redo/replace. WOTC dies while The Game lives on eternally.

[@GreatGreebo]

Excellent video🤘 Hopefully nobody falls for the “heartfelt” apology issued a few hours ago by the dude who drew the short straw in their most recent executive meeting. Everyone needs to look at what he *DIDN’T* discuss in his “olive branch* statement. If WotC were serious, they’d leave the OGL alone, be transparent about the future costs of DND Beyond AND start showing some respect for the community that allows them to exist. Pfffft…pack sand WotC.

[@TheMapleTable]

even if they actually start showing respect ... its a bit late now.

[@MsMotherWolf]

I liked what the AI Wizard commented with having an AI run games. There's a difference between playing a video game and having the story telling you get with a DM and group of players. In a video game and with the AI, there's only so many choices you can make for an illusion of choice. A Human DM is going to be able to innovate on the fly and take in the input from the players and alter things. This AI DM is just reinventing the wheel for video games.

[@aglavraowl4932]

For some reason I cannot fully understand myself, I absolutely do not like the idea of using AI DM (which is kinda weird, as I'm usually eager to adopt new tech). I found some uses for ChatGPT in my solo campaigns (such as using it for idea generation when I get stuck, or getting nicely written and more detailed descriptions of something I already have in mind), but I enjoy the process of inventing something on the fly so much, that I never will give it up to AI. I think, if I would use AI DM, it would just become sort of "poor man's videogame" in my eyes, so I would rather go and play some RPG on my PC in that case.

[@ameliaward7429]

They will follow the Todd Howard Skyrim Model. Thousands of (radiant) quests.

[@Furzkampfbomber]

@@aglavraowl4932 The thing is, I can be a total nerd when it comes to tech and to (new) technology. But I embrace and use new technology for two possible reasons. A) I deem it useful or B) I deem it cool and interesting. I was a fan of VR when it was still an absolute niche product for instance, because it is cool. Damn, I got my hands of some shutter glasses and played 3D Alien vs.Predator in 2000 already and was amazed and riveted, despite the technology being _far_ from what true VR is nowadays. I was interested in 3D printing when most people laughed at the mere idea. Both technologies are fun, the first ads some kind of value to gaming at least for some and the latter is extremely useful even for the average Joe. But when 'social media' became a thing and permeated our daily lifes more and more, I was not just underwhelmed, I was annoyed and increasingly appalled. Because they make our lifes more and more superficial and have a massive detrimental effect on both the indivicual and society as a whole. Today, I downright reject most of it. And what does an AI DM actually have to offer? It's not especially cool technology wise. And it adds nothing to the gaming experience, even more so, it _takes away_ and makes it less fun, because as you've said, the fun in TTRPG comes from the interaction with other players _and_ with the DM. It comes from a DM being able to come up with interesting new ideas that push the boundaries beyond the know cookie cutter scenarios, as well as from his or her ability to _react_ to whatever silly things you throw at him. A huge part of the fun comes from players trying to find out how the DM might react to the idea of throwing donkey poop at the king. An AI can check the boxes, but it can _not_ create new ones and thus, is a lifeless factor in a game that thrives on a living, breathing atmosphere. Well, that's at least how I see it. Also, I throw donkey poop at the king.

[@MsMotherWolf]

@allksjndlkasjdkl This is a field I'm still learning more about and so far, The AI Wizard's commentary is who I know best along with my own experiences using the ChatGPT. There are indeed limits and with Chat, it's great for an idea generator and refining what you're working on or asking for a monster block write up that I will in turn clean up later.

[@cypher6083]

I'll never support them ever again, no matter what they say or do. The moment they said the primary goal was to stop hate speech I became their enemy. Gaslighting the community and claiming their scheme was designed to fight racism is so unforgivably immoral I am obligated to not only stop being a customer but to actively work towards the complete failure and bankruptcy of WOTC as a company. I have been a customer of DnD and MTG products for over 30 years and now I am rallying my friends and players in a revolution to make every single Hasbro employee unemployed.

[@patdossenko1820]

amen

[@rudeboyjohn3483]

So...I mean...You realize that the CORE reason for their actions is GREED.....right? The whole "We are virtue signaling morals and THAT is what you should blame" tactic is bullshit...right? Because they are a corporation....their one and only motivation is fucking you out of money.....right? It was never "Don't be racist"....it was "Fuck you. Give us money. If you don't like it...um look at this buzzword we've heard about" ....right?

[@justagosling]

I almost felt for this comment. 10/10

[@TheMapleTable]

remember vote with your wallet

[@SkreltNL]

i hope more people will become like you respect

[@Dhyfis]

Your thoughts are chilling and I wish I didn't believe Wizards was indeed on that path. They can not be trusted. They can not be supported. We must continue to rally together and watch for things like that terms of service so when it is done we can hopefully stop people from being fooled into signing it.

[@TheMapleTable]

it may not play out like this ... but its a future I can see based on many other things happening in the business world outside of DnD

[@TOUGHEYES]

I think the disgusting extent of arrogance thar Wizards has goes to show that they don't see storytelling as a matter of tradition. As complete modernists, they just see it as a materialistic product, and for that reason alone they deserve to crumble.

[@vxicepickxv]

This is being directed from Hasbro, because Wizards has to double their profits every 5 years.

[@Rodrigo_Vega]

Beautifully put.

[@joelrobinson5457]

With stuff like AI it could soon be, the artist community is being shit on by AIbros who are actively mocking them because they can't do art traditionally, but can use a tool where they click a button, so many young creators are getting discouraged, from their calling and getting told to get a "real job". With greedy companies supporting the death of creative jobs... We can't let it continue, not like this, not ever!

[@TOUGHEYES]

@@joelrobinson5457 a Machine cannot replicate the essence of a human soul, no matter how many people throw themselves into it. If anything, because there's no consciousness, but capacity to work, you'll only ever get a cheap imitation. And on top of that, they're scared of AI that go politically incorrect, so to put measures in place against that takes away from the AI even further

[@freelancerthe2561]

Theres a long standing tradition in media where its ok to paint the Bosses (aka the Exec) as a saturday morning cartoon villain. But god help you if hit too close to home. If you wanna hear a story about what happens when you do...... look up that CGI Lorax movie from 2012, and the behind the scenes story about the cut song "Biggering". The movie had all the hallmarks of a Fern Gully type project..... until the message upset some Execs (not sure if its Universal or Illumination), and the song that replaced it was so vapid that it practically broadcast the influence that lead to it. You start to notice the real problem of how they're basically the ones that bank roll stuff. And how everything is setup to make it hard to side step them.

[@ameliaward7429]

This is a war on Dungeon Masters. They need AI DM's to hand out the radiant fetch quests.

[@kriscasdorph7583]

They're smart enough to know DM's are 80% of sales, yet dumb enough to replace DM's with an algorithm that buys nothing.

[@lorekeeper685]

@@kriscasdorph7583 they probably gonna make you pay for "higher" tier ais of course they are not skillful enough for it

[@TimoRutanen]

Collect 0/10 rat tails

[@TheMapleTable]

AI can be useful as a tool im not going to deny that.

[@lorekeeper685]

@@TheMapleTable and that's about it Since for it to run a dynamic environment it needs to have a guide since otherwise it would hiccup Which I actually saw from such AI run concepts by dougdoug

[@EveryDooDarnDiddlyDay]

Their release basically struck me as "Well, we know we screwed up, and acknowledging THAT, we would like to now ask you, in what scenario exactly WOULD you be wiling to give us more money in the future?"

[@TheMapleTable]

Kind of... It really was dishonest though

[@alananimus9145]

To think if they just would have branded one d&d as a vmmorpg instead of a vtt they could have actually made more money and gotten 90% of what they wanted.

[@TheMapleTable]

all they had to do was make a good product and price it appropriately.

[@qchtohere8636]

And to think this all started with a horse armor...

[@Furzkampfbomber]

I think it actually started with Steam.

[@qchtohere8636]

@@Furzkampfbomber Respectfully disagree: Standardized digital game distribution started with Steam. Predatory practices through microtransactions started with a horse armor. After all, Valve's founder, Gabe Newell understand the core issue: "Piracy is not a pricing issue, is a service issue". PS: fun fact: All Steam downloaded games can be locally backed-up and most can potentially played offline if the developer don't implement DRM locking it.

[@swan6290]

Nailed it. Video-gamification. Ah well. The D&D-reconstruction was nice while it lasted. WotC is acting as not just "not our friend," but the enemy of ttrpg D&D players. How do we fight to gain back our D&D? We already know how to monetarily hurt WotC short-term, but that's no great success and gains us little if anything. Their apology? "We are sorry [that you mad, bro.]" Non-apologies are insulting smoke-screens. Nevermind their release of statements. Wait and see what they really mean by carefully combing their so-called new Open Game License.

[@TheMapleTable]

This is what they want, we can't allow it

[@TimoRutanen]

Probably the only way to get 'D&D' back is trashing its value so low that someone more reputable buys it and revives it.

[@RkKoori]

Yup, telling everyone about this crap. Thanks for adding to the #ogl discussion!

[@TheMapleTable]

just doing my part.

[@Tomicrat]

A very good layout for the possible Wotc plan. I would think they would do books via "print on demand" that way when they do there umptheeth update a person can be up to date with there hardbacks.

[@TheMapleTable]

thats also a likely option.

[@shaunhall960]

They didn't anticipate how intelligent our community is. The best option now is to leave them entirely.

[@Furzkampfbomber]

I am not even sure they underestimated the intelligence. What they totally and completely _did_ underestimated and still underestimate is, though, how utterly stubborn nerds can be when you try to take away the things they love. Often, nerds or people seen as such by the public are more of the silent type, but you definitely don't want to have them as your sworn enemy.

[@MrSpankyxiv]

Agreed. Going up against weaponized autism never works out in the long term.

[@shaunhall960]

@@MrSpankyxiv Hahahha! I snorted my coffee up my nose! Thank you for that.

[@shaunhall960]

@@Furzkampfbomber Indeed. :)

[@kevinmartin5053]

I think that they may also be able to control the loot tables on their digital platform based on the tier of the players.

[@TheMapleTable]

I hadn't even considered building in a random loot table for encounters

[@rdmsh]

AI DM might be great as an assistant; rapidly writing flavour text for random places and NPCs. The Human GM is the one that builds the adventure and connect it all together

[@TheMapleTable]

yes, AI is not bad by itself IMO. used as a tool it helps creators, DMs, but to be used as a total replacement?

[@Frankon81]

Your corporate hat is still a small one. Apart from paid subscription tier being able to play their own homebrew why not make a marketplace for homebrew content and take a cut from every transaction. This way you will be getting money from the people to have access to it (via subscription) who will then will spend more money and give you additional cut for that content. No need to spend your own company money to create some items for microtransactions. Sky is the limit for the corporate monetization schemes.

[@LexYeen]

Why keep printing paper books when PDFs are all but free and so is their distribution chain? And the PDF format can include anti-piracy measures, so why not only distribute them to D&D Beyond account holders? Can't forget the dice rolling, nothing but Official D&D Dice allowed at official events - and while we're at it, no 3D printed minis that WotC doesn't sell.

[@yarnevk]

Actually his corp hat is bigger than yours. Sure they could be like Steam and taking a 50% cut like they do on DMG discount that to 25% because you did not use D&D IP just OGC. But apply that only to top competitors because they will see thru this plan so you need to put them out of biz so there is nowhere else to go, just biz like the hit man says - and as has been pointed out that entire market of 3p biz is like 1% of them they do not need them. So then all the DMs are like thats OK it does not cost me to upload and I can save my homebrew campaign on there now (a feature D&DB players have been asking for a while) not realized that upload EULA just signed away rights to OGL and rights to sell The sell is the sub so they do not even get a kickback. Hey WOTC here is my HeroForge minis I made (because they will buy them next). This is straight out of Bethesda's Monetize the Mods playbook - Skyrim AE edition is Skyrim SE plus mods same as Witcher III redux. WOTC they just need some programmers that know how to write videogame engines and database nor pay users for content because they would make it for free anyways and the only books they need to make is rules. Then all the 3P biz realized gotta go where the customers are because we are dying over here in the deadlands called tabletop and says hey wiz here is your 50% deal lets talk

[@crankyeldergod709]

On the whole, this makes sense. But here's the thing that confuses me. When OneD&D comes out, why not just announce that this version would not longer use the OGL? Just be open and honest about the direction of the company. There still would have been some grumbling, but then OneD&D, and the surrounding VTT ecosystem, would stand or fall under its own merits. I understand that WotC tried to remove the OGL under 4e, and there was some backlash then. If they handled that rollout with the same grace and consideration that they are doing this, I can see why it didn't work. Apparently, that led WotC to the conclusion that being ethical was not a profitable approach. They are about to find out the cost of being unscrupulous the hard way.

[@Furzkampfbomber]

Because that would only include anyone accepting the _new_ OGL. Remember, they tried to make this binding for everyone already operating under the old one.

[@crankyeldergod709]

@@Furzkampfbomber I realize they were trying to pull this half-assed stunt of de-authorizing the 1a OGL, forcing the new OGL for already published D&D 5e content. But my point of confusion is specifically for the as yet unpublished OneD&D. My question is, why can't WotC publish OneD&D using some other license? There is no constraint, that I know of, that forces WotC to publish all future D&D editions under the 1a OGL.

[@yarnevk]

Its called boiling the frog - they will not jump in the boiled pot but they like sitting in the cold water. Prime the pumps with 5e content now which becomes new OGL, which fills D&D Beyond with legacy homebrew content at a time WOTC does not want to waste T&M on 5e when writing 6e. And you cannot play it elsewhere because the new OGL (or more likely EULA terms revokes OGL) means those 3p VTT start dying without 5e content as it is copyright they do not have (which includes the 5e SRD using a new OGL) Then 2025 6e players will forget all about that OGL and other VTTs it was couple years ago - that was just some thing for pirating illegal PDF and API extractors so it had to be shut down. Hey finally its done but we gonna need higher sub tier as its D&DB, HeroForge, Level builder and 3D VTT all rolled into one. higher price add on called 3D VTT yeah thats worth the extra sub on top of D&DB

[@VinylCP]

'Dungeon masters only make up 20% of our audience' ...1/5 DnD players are DMs... Oh my.

[@TheMapleTable]

Shocking, but the problem is how to get players to spend like a DM

[@VinylCP]

Some twisted lens their looking at the 'raze player investment' objective through.

[@crapshot321]

1000+ This. You get Hasbro's evil scheme.

[@Seoul_Soldier]

The funny thing is that Hasbro/WotC have essentially positioned Paizo to eat their lunch entirely with the new ORC license. My group and I want nothing to do with DnD anymore, and have already dove headfirst into Pathfinder 2E. Your videos have been a great source of information for us as we adjust to the new system.

[@TheMapleTable]

They made Paizo competition

[@jtjr26]

I think there is room for a D&D virtual system but if they think they can replace the in-person experience with the strictly online one they really do not understand the TTRPG market. Online aids are a supplement to in-person gameplay not a replacement for it.

[@duttdits]

I have already been putting distance between myself and D&D over the past year. I ran a campaign of Starfinder which was just my take on save or die's Oasis game and it was a massive hit. My players couldn't wait to come back and play again. Which for me as the GM was incredibly gratifying. And now we are starting a game of 4th edition Warhammer. I had planned to go back to D&D after my Warhammer game finished, but I don't think I'll be doing that now. Once we either finish the story or TPK in Warhammer I'm going to run King maker in Pathfinder 2E. I've spent the past couple weeks gobbling up everything I can find on Pathfinder and I don't just say this because of being mad at Wizards but I legitimately think I will like that system better. A lot of my gripes I have with D&D are the way I wish they were in Starfinder. Have the same goes for Pathfinder after looking into it. I'll pull out my old d&d stuff to play it or pirate core books, but I'll never buy another item with WotC's name on it.

[@TheMapleTable]

Honestly even after all this, I don't hate dnd. I of course am not a fan of execs at hasbro or wotc but I don't hate dnd

[@duttdits]

@@TheMapleTable oh yes. I'll always love d&d. d&d 4e was my ttrpg introduction. But the current stewards of it are unworthy and I'll sooner let it die than support their abuse of it. If Hasbro loses enough money they'll sell it off and somebody will resurrect it.

[@ronturner3598]

$4 more than WorldAnvil. It wouldn't take much to make a product worth that difference. I am excited for AI applications integrated into my VTT and campaign planner.

[@TheMapleTable]

AI is undoubtedly a great tool when used to assist creation. By itself though? I don't know

[@AB-jd5rz]

I love the logic of "you have to pay extra to make your own game content"... You know what WotC? I can think of an even cheaper way to play a ttrpg using my own homebrew material...

[@TheMapleTable]

Pen and paper is free... Ish

[@jessicascoullar3737]

They decide to play a long con against people who will spend literally years playing one campaign and expect the outrage to blow over in a few weeks. Yeah, that will go well.

[@TheMapleTable]

Historically they are correct, but let's make them wrong

[@fleacythesheepgirl]

Hey guys there’s a renewed interest in D&D maybe we should start pushing beginners packages or maybe like simple single player modules or merchandise… Or maybe just be complete slimeballs! Perfect!👏👏👏

[@TheMapleTable]

"merchandising merchandising, D&D the lunch box, D&D the action figure, D&D the FLAMETHROWER... the kids are going to love it"

[@fleacythesheepgirl]

@@TheMapleTable lol I was thinking more like character design kits or clothing with like 70s D&D art but now that you mention flamethrowers 🤔

[@TheMapleTable]

@@fleacythesheepgirl it was a quote from spaceballs :P

[@vxicepickxv]

Well, I guess it's time to buy some not D & D books on Fantasy Grounds.

[@TheMapleTable]

Starfinder is great, so is Pathfinder among many others.

[@dewulfe9913]

Great breakdown. I don't play D&D (well, not since the 80s), but have a like and a sub. Also great to see someone really fleshing out that link between video game marketing and what WOTC are trying to do here. I've just quit my main video game because while I can resist the lure of microtransactions Bungie puts into the game, they've neglected to maintain or improve the core activities...which have become too boring and/or tedious for me. The fun is gone, because instead of keeping the activities of the game fun, they introduce items for players to chase. That keeps people playing. Then they position those items behind very grindy processes, and often randomise the reward. So getting what you want can take a hell of a lot of time. And that's perfect for them, because research has shown the longer you are on-line, the more chance there is you'll spend money on microtransactions. So it's all just about money in the end....

[@TheMapleTable]

Its just a game of numbers... Gaming is the new casino

[@dewulfe9913]

@@TheMapleTable 100%. It's so insulting to see that a company making a mystic sci-fi shooter, is now actually trying to turn you into a slot machine junkie.

[@HandlesAreStupid2024]

Call me a boomer , but my biggest issue with digital anything is the ability for the holding entity to make whatever changes they want at anytime and pretend the previous item never existed. Extrapolate that out to any print product and hopefully you see the potential dangers.

[@TheMapleTable]

these thoughts had crossed my mind.

[@draconicdrizzt6383]

Totally agree with your assessment of Hasbro's plan, all the components present, either leaked or speculative, fit neatly together to phase out physical print and coerce the community into a pseudo-VG monetised situation. The thing for me is I'll ride out buying physical and then stop buying and just run in person games. I enjoy what I've paid for in the past whilst Hasbro gets neither access to my money nor likely anyone coming into their paywalled garden.

[@TheMapleTable]

That's what the suits at hasbro want... A walled garden of micro transactions

[@77wolfblade]

love to see an AI handle a hard moment like pvp in a funny context.

[@TheMapleTable]

At this point it can't lol

[@77wolfblade]

@@TheMapleTable probably would have some hilarious results.

[@wolftooth6678]

And to think it was only one week again you posted the video that 2022 was the hardest year of your life. Only one month in and WOTC is imploding...

[@TheMapleTable]

god i hope this isnt an indication of 2023 lol

[@codylockhart198]

Hit Hasbro where it counts. Boycott the upcoming Dnd movie.

[@LexYeen]

Don't just do that, don't buy _anything_ with Hasbro's name on it. Not even nerf darts.

[@embyrfyres]

That might be not enough, what about people who are unfamiliar to Dnd who watch the movie and want to try the game out? Maybe spreading the word that "If you like the movie, try these alternate games instead of Dnd for a fun/just as authentic rpg experience" could at least redirect them and give other games the spotlight they deserve (especially if Wizards or Hasbro counts on the movie to bring in new fans to replace those that left).

[@MrChiddler]

The 1% of the potential audience who actually play D&D and pay attention online is not going to harm the movie. At all.

[@thefenrisianssweatshop]

@@MrChiddler your most likely right. The fact that there has NEVER been a good D&D movie might, and from what I’ve seen, Jeremy irons may as well have reprised his D&D character again… 😂

[@darthknight1]

What they don't understand is that D&D is more like a family boardgame, in that one family member purchases it, and the rest of the family play. The fact that some family members would each be purchasing a copy of the game instructions booklet is something they want to monetize in this analogy. Hasbro's executives don't really understand their own product. They think of it as a video game model, or want to change it into one, because microtransactions and subscriptions are sadly what 21st century capitalism has become. Given the DOUBLE downgrading of Hasbro's stock due to their greed with Magic the Gathering and pushing their luck too far with the consumer, and due to the quarter of a billion dollar investment in OneDND so far, they are nervous and looking to make capital back as quickly as possible, so they are making stupid uninformed decisions on how to "monetize" DnD to plug this hole in their business.

[@DeadpoolAli]

Is there a DnDbeyond version for starfinder?

[@TheMapleTable]

theres a couple of free tools like Archives of Nethys which has all the game rules .... for free. and a community project, character builder called Hephaistos. its really good.

[@WillStecho]

I agree with you that this is most likely their business plan. Its a shame though. I think it'd be better all around if they chose to mimic Steam instead. They could reaffirm the OGL 1.0a and keep D&D open for all third party content creators; nothing would have to change for the tabletop scene at all. They could then create tools to make it as easy as possible for third content creators to build content for D&D beyond. Then they could open up D&D Beyond as a marketplace for third party content that people could play on their VTT. The amount of content for their VTT would explode which would help the growth of their ecosystem and they'd also have the content control they'd want because they could decide what they allow to become published on D&D Beyond. Third party publishers would still make money from their content, and potentially a lot more because the D&D Beyond platform may make it accessible to more people. Hasbro could charge marketplace fees the same way Steam does, which would make them a fortune if this VTT becomes as popular as they hope it will. They could also still do their microtransaction nonsense for custom cosmetic upgrades and such, they could even open this up to third party artists to sell custom skins and take a marketplace cut of this as well. This approach would definitely have issues but I think it'd be a better direction in general. It more or less keeps the current status quo and it only really affects their future VTT. It'd at least be more palatable than their current approach and it could even turn out to be great in the long run..

[@joncarroll2040]

Here's the one problem with your thesis: Eliminating physical books makes zero sense for three reasons. 1) You are eliminating a large part of your customer base. 2) You are giving up the 100% free money you get from companies like WizKids who make D&D minis and accessories for tabletop play. These are not covered in the OGL because they use the D&D brand (which they have to pay for), and they are (at least partly) based off designs that would be considered product identity under the OGL terms. 3) It doesn't fit Hasbro's business model with anything else. There are digital versions of most if not all of their games and yet they still sell physical copies of Monopoly and so many Magic cards that that community is complaining about too much being released.

[@MephiticMiasma]

Take care of yourself, that voice needs some TLC!

[@TheMapleTable]

I throw on a bit of grit when I record ... dont know when it happened but im doing it without thinking about it. also I am getting a cold :P

[@companionmouse]

The continued use of the OGL 1.0a is paramount. It is the difference between people being able to choose to use a new license and being forced to use it.

[@TheMapleTable]

Ideally it wouldn't change, but if there are two OGL documents I can live with that as long as people have the option under which one to use

[@companionmouse]

@@TheMapleTable This is the way it has always worked. 3.5e had it's own version of the license and 4e had it's own version of the license. You could choose to use the 3.5e version or use the 4e version. The 4e version had something in it that said you could not use other versions so few people used it.

[@JacksonOwex]

The left side of the screen looks... oddly empty for some reason! ;)

[@TheMapleTable]

cant imagine why :P

[@thefenrisianssweatshop]

Again Nathaniel, awesome vid. Nice and clear. Now… I feel I started out with my following comment when I first discovered your content, and I shall repeat it here… there is already a wealth of existing product. It might not be perfect. Hell it may even be tatty and used by now. But YOU the player can buy it and use it in YOUR OWN TERMS. And there ain’t sh*t anyone can do about it. And debuting it is probably cheaper, and most likely won’t put a single penny hasbros pockets. It’ll also keep the tradition of ttrpg alive. It puts the power back in your hands. Yeah, it’s lovley having new and shiny things. But when that comes at our expense and with utter disregard for the end user… yeah time to respectful leave. To use an old quote from myself a lil while back. I think I’ll keep on with my old stuff.

[@TheMapleTable]

Buy up the material you want because it may not be around forever

[@GrayTiger70]

Your analysis seems pretty spot-on to me. The sad part is that WotC is probably going to "win" by running off most of its current fans and then building a new fan base out of people who have never played the game before and don't know what it was meant to be since the digital model is all the new fans will have ever known. TTRPG fans will likely just have to look elsewhere for an actual D&D-style experience. Sad to say, but short of WotC changing its business model and backing off after investing literally millions of dollars, that seems (to me, at least) about the only probable way for all this to play out. Fortunately, there are a LOT of great RPGs (OGL and otherwise) out there. (D&D and its retroclones aside, I use 4th edition Hero System and 3rd edition GURPS myself.)

[@TheMapleTable]

yea, it is sad that this is what gaming is coming to. I moved to more TTRPGs because it wasnt the unfun microtransaction hellscape that is videos games ... which I once loved.

[@myautobiographyafanfic1413]

Isn't this what OneDnD was openly, from the start? It's not a new edition, because of it's minimal changes, it says "we're unifying DnD" when 5e was supposedly DnD's greatest hits. So I thought it was pretty openly a bottleneck of ownership.

[@overcomer01]

So this "one DND" won't be available for anyone who doesn't have internet or wireless phone. Or people who can't afford the subscription fees.

[@TheMapleTable]

well, I can see them having a free tier which is limited in function. like a drug dealer, you have to get them hooked.

[@Kardel_VA]

These are great ideas...coming from soulless husks who've never played dnd.

[@TheMapleTable]

Its just good business

[@gorillaguerillaDK]

In regards to the OGL issue, I highly recommend that people listen to the podcast Opening Arguments episode 675 and 677 LegalEagle also made a video and he also recommend that people listen to the OA podcast.

[@TheMapleTable]

I will check it out

[@arandomnamegoeshere]

Ironic thing - this was roughly the business plan for 4e. But the VTT component never hit the light of day. And the rules changed too much. This time, they're keeping the DnD feel... but with AI. If they were trying this without kneecapping the ecosystem to do it... it wouldn't be such a terrible thing. I'm not so sure it'll work. But let them try. Maybe it'll work. There are, after all, D&D services out there where you can pay to sit in on a session and play a story arch with a "pro" DM and even a regular group of other customers / players. However, they are trying to kneecap the ecosystem. The cynical side of me suspects that they're not confident in their business plan. And they would like to make it very, very hard for someone to do something better. Like Pathfinder did when 4e flopped.

[@TheMapleTable]

Its hard to not be cynical given what they have pulled lately

[@koburaphanan]

Otherwise... In such a deep purple color, starfinder premium core rules would look much better than in plain blue.

[@TheMapleTable]

It's such a royal colour

[@koburaphanan]

@@TheMapleTable I'll tell you honestly, I haven't really liked DnD's system since 3.0 (and not just because it's been translated into hungarian). They took the most loved parts for me (especially the 5e): Detailed character creation & build. Not long ago, I finally tried starfinder (instead of pathfinder, my main high fantasy line for me is UESRPG) and finally felt the excitement and logical creativity that I had with 3e-3.5 ago. Needless to say, I've been massively learning from your videos since then.

[@ShinChara]

I have no doubt that this is the plan. There's just one problem, though. It ends with Paradox Interactive taking all your players and RPG Maker taking all your DMs.

[@TheMapleTable]

Time will tell where they go

[@brootalbap]

The AI won't be ready for another decade at least. The amount of relational data, history, referencing information between different sessions (weeks or months apart), precise and consistent description of places, distances, objects and NPCs is much, much more than any AI can handle. AI dmed games wont work at all.

[@KingZNIN]

At the rate of improvement I'd say 5 years max until they become "good enough" to run short term games for about 5 sessions. This shit is improving at crazy speeds.

[@squidbeard492]

🏴‍☠️ Time for a bunch of brand new pirates to throw a book burning party. 🔥📙🔥 🍻

[@TheMapleTable]

Don't burn your books :p but... Maybe the high seas

[@coderain8452]

I like to point out a very important detail that you got wrong. This isn't capitalism. It's corporatism, look it up. But yeah it's Hasbro being scummy because they think they can get away with it.

[@Qardo]

And this is why I got away from D&D. I saw the writing on the wall years ago. The signs started to be more public. With "Race" replaced with "Species". "Racial Disadvantages" removed on everyone and removing any ability for a player to find clever ways to work around it. Trying to be more "inclusive". And now this. Yeah. When you hire a former head of MICROTRANSACTIONS from Microsoft. You get this. On record, the woman did say "The player base is not being monetizated enough." No, I am not joking. The new head of WotC said this. Now moved onto GURPS, at least Steve Jackson hasn't cracked. He is just happy to have his little card game and little Tabletop Empire. Plus old Fantasy Flight game Star Wars and a few other rule books. Though need to wrangle in victims to play Star Trek Adventures...I've had those books for too long and not played it, lol.

[@TheMapleTable]

See my OGL video, I address the monitization comments

[@kyubii972]

I love that they think we need d&d beyond when this is a game that can be played with M&M's instead of miniatures, and pink and purple note cards for magic items and homebrew spells. They have no understanding of the hobby nor of the community that plays it. They might understand that dungeon Master's put the most money forward, but they sure didn't expect us all to come together to do something about their outright lies.

[@TheMapleTable]

they think we need them ...

[@Kadath_Gaming]

*Homebrew content added to D&d Beyond belongs to Wizards so you're paying them to take your IP

[@DougVehovec]

Is there a free tier for this creator's Patreon? How does what they offer for $15/month compare with all access from WotC for $30?

[@badninja81]

My favorite part of this whole thing was when they tried to use legal jargen and lies in order to gas light us that we won and they got caught by people who use these tactics to add spice to thier campaigns

[@TheMapleTable]

Yea its great being told that we are the problem lol

[@Han-rw9ev]

The latest 'apology' is just more lies and more sneaky stuff.. I think people had best start working on alternative plans because I suspect things are about to get ugly again.. That predator that just tried to eat everyone recently is just trying to get it's prey to stop kicking and biting.. DON'T TRUST HASBRO..

[@TheMapleTable]

maybe, at least it was written by an actual human this time.

[@Han-rw9ev]

@@TheMapleTable There is that, but I'm getting the impression he just got shoved into the front lines by his evil boss. Basically, someone for everyone to yell at while the evil masterminds at the top of the food chain prepare their next trap.

[@jacknerdlord3244]

Smart take bud

[@TheMapleTable]

having worked with investments for most of my working career ... this is what businesses want.

[@jumpingspiderjesusfreak6219]

I might, might, be willing to pay for micro-transactions, but only if they don’t make me subscribe to access them. If they really want my money, they need to make action figures of monsters. I’m talking fully pose-able gem dragons.

[@TOUGHEYES]

Or you could just not give them anything, and give your efforts and money to less callous companies and people.

[@LexYeen]

Why would you _reward_ them for how they're treating us?

[@Furzkampfbomber]

@@LexYeen I get the point. If they had decided to make cool D&D action figures etc., _instead_ of deciding to rip everyone off, then they might have made a ton of money. _Now_ they can release the coolest action figures ever and no one will buy them.

[@yourfriendlyinternetmeatshield]

Hear me out: what if all the DnD tubers, ALL did some legally distinct parody or whatever campaign they upload, making WOTC the villian, in some way? So many people, loop holing the system, attacking and supported by the fans, would make an impact even to these corpo punks

[@thepureheartofdark]

4:48 "Live service" talk. It's EA, Activision, etc. All over again.

[@TheMapleTable]

gamify the VTT

[@voodoochild1975az]

Pathfinder is a fun game. Just sayin'....

[@KingZNIN]

I believe the 30 a month thing was a lie someone played on the DND community

[@TheMapleTable]

true, but even if it was a lie I think my argument stands around the VTT

[@mandasity]

as a guy who gave up on wotc ages ago.. yaaaaa. So, starfinder, amirite?

[@TheMapleTable]

Yeah you are right

[@protonneutron9046]

No one NEEDS to use ANY license. Dirty little corp. secret...

[@GrayTiger70]

It's not "One D&D." It's "*OUR* D&D."

[@GrayTiger70]

(Bellowed by executives with tone of children throwing tantrums)

[@MrHousecup]

I'm sure glad I don't play D&D. It's just not my genre, but now I have a good reason to stay FAR away from it!

[@BW022]

Sorry, but the key to monetizing D&D is a VTT. No one will pay monthly money anything like $30/month for a character creator, rules books, articles, early access, or even modules -- especially if that is $30/month per player. And WotC doesn't have a VTT, let alone one with $30/month or one likely to get table-top players to play online. That later would require a quantum leap in making average Joe DMs able to actually use these things without making the time requirements insane, plus dealing with all the technical issues. VTT do not have a large segment of the D&D community and will have less so at $150/month ($1,800/year)

[@KingZNIN]

I believe the $30amonth was a fake leak from a few months ago that was brought back for some reason. I think someone is trying to destroy our movement. Either way fuck Hasbro

[@theskitchband]

Neckbeards big mad when imagination land gets revoked yet watch reality/society crumble around them. When the corpos take everything what do u do?? Roll for initiative?

[@Dandizz]

Slick trick they tried, basically blaming blockchain tech for the new OGL "It's Web3's fault!". 🤣🤣🤣

[@TheMapleTable]

evil NFTs ... says the company selling NFTs lol

[@Damsels2001]

You will own nothing, and you will love it guys. Oh, and full of microtransactions.

[@TheMapleTable]

Business ultimate goal, give them nothing and make them pay for it

[@johnharrison2086]

Not even Abadarcorp is this greedy!

[@TheMapleTable]

Abadarcorp at least operates in good faith

[@noctuammagic1260]

Everybody, I would just want to point out that this news turned out to be fake, and I really hope the channel pins some comment explaining it since I see many commenters here have not been updated on this.

[@TheMapleTable]

I did mention that this was fake in the video but at this point it doesnt matter. the intent is there.

[@JB-wc9cr]

watch the video called What went wrong with gaming It is a history of the monetization of video games. It is sick

[@TheMapleTable]

I have watched it, its a pretty good summary of how I have watched another passion of mine be destroyed.

[@nathandavidson7298]

Linda also was lying.. so maybe she’s not the best to reference

[@samthered4862]

20% of players make 80% of purchases? The pareto distribution shows up in strange places.

[@TheMapleTable]

Its interesting to see

[@Faradars1]

The infested video game politics is coming to the board gamers comunity We are not like them !!!! We say NO !!!!!

[@davidraley3054]

Can you expand on what you mean by video game politics? Please and thank you.

[@TheMapleTable]

If video games politics you mean pay extra for fun... Yes I agree

[@Subcomandante73]

I'm happy tp spend $30 a month on rpg's....but not with WoTC 😂

[@TheMapleTable]

That's great!

[@markskarr2257]

You won't _buy_ figures, you'll _rent_ them. $0.99 a month, per figure.

[@TheMapleTable]

This is a worst case scenario

[@anathema1828]

Say it ain’t so!

[@TheMapleTable]

it probably isnt ... at least the price point but my argument still stands :D

[@johnantesbergeriii4053]

We need to boycot EVERYTHING WotC!!! I don't care if it's MTG, DnD, or any of the movies or TV shows or videogames. We need to pull together and NOT SEE Honor Among Thieves!!!

[@TheMapleTable]

Vote with your wallet

[@Smok_Argus]

They want to remove Table from Tabletop RPG

[@TheMapleTable]

Precisely

[@doctoronishispsychosislab1474]

Hasbro 9 billion dollar company. wanting cash of guys who make 50k........

[@LexYeen]

No company wants to just make _more_ money. They want to make _all of the money._

[@TheMapleTable]

they dont want MORE money they want ALL the money.

[@ElwoodShort]

DnD beyond has been converted into a Trojan horse by WOTC/HASBRO hasn’t it?

[@TheMapleTable]

a little bit. The corporate execs are collecting the date they get from it and using it in their planning for the future.

[@demos113]

WOTC nevermore.

[@TheMapleTable]

It's lookin really bad for them

[@alfredocamba1995]

Don't give them money & design your own games that you own & let them fail from their hubris Respect for the D&D community Disappointment from the MTG players Boycott Hasbro

[@TheMapleTable]

long live the ORC

[@roaringlaughter3812]

Dnd is done for. No one who followed this story is going to buy their stuff again.

[@TheMapleTable]

the community has been severely damaged.

[@HasturYellowSign]

You’ve confused capitalism with corporatism. WotC abandoned capitalism years ago in favor of wokeness. Remember that module about prom and being a Starbucks barista?

[@davidbowles7281]

Capitalism is corporatism as long as corporations exist in their current form.

[@noctuammagic1260]

It was already debunked. Dndshorts just wants outrage for clicks and money. It was just a retell of that hoax from august, and even wotc came out and said that it is a lie. We are talking about a youtuber whose most videos are pure clickait, and a very small knowledge of rules. Why did anyone trust him in the first place?

[@TheMapleTable]

Regardless of it being fake, can you also see how easy it would be to create something like that?

[@noctuammagic1260]

@@TheMapleTable It could be easy, but that doesn't really matter, since it will not be done. It was confirmed to be fake, and just trying to point out how it could still happen seems like an attempt to keep getting clicks by using outrage. Especially since I don't see any comment from you updating the video to explain that it was fake news.

[@steved4475]

Black listed WoTC. There are better options and more options to come. D&D is dead. Hasbro Hasbeen.

[@HasturYellowSign]

Anyone else remember how WotC banned people for life for exposing the pedophile problem in competitive MTG? People who had spent tens of thousands of dollars in their online program as well as collecting cards? Pepperidge Farm remembers

[@TheMapleTable]

I didn't know about this

[@Beer_goggles]

Yawwwwwwwn

[@TheMapleTable]

My video boring or just old news?

[@Beer_goggles]

@@TheMapleTable just 20 youtubers doing these ogl videos and they all know the truth and what is going on and all know people on the inside... but there are 20 slightly different truths lol