The Mantle is a Lie | Halo Epitaph

In this episode: we discuss some recent revelations from the Book Halo: Epitaph that prove a theory I brought forward 3 years ago!
Original Theory:
• The Primordials Horrif...
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[@Crimson-kt7fd]

Precursors went from life giving Bug men to the Brethren Moons with their markers real quick

[@spartanx9293]

some still are the precursors are not a monolith there were two precursors on Path Kethona who "After dying, the two Precursors became samples that were studied and encoded, and planted in the ground as seeds that would germinate for a million years. Their sprouts that climbed to the surface took even longer and bloomed only in the last million years. Unlike the Primordial, these were Precursors that celebrated joy instead of relishing in suffering and as a result, the blooms were not left corrupted with violence and misery but instead were clean, beautiful, and bright."

[@crusader7eth163]

@@spartanx9293 I wonder could the endless be the precursors new young un-condemned form meant to reclaim the responsibility of the mantle?

[@spartanx9293]

@crusader7eth163 I don't know there's not enough lore about them to speculate

[@crusader7eth163]

@@spartanx9293I mean why on earth was the endless more dangerous than the flood as was said in infinite. surely it’s not ONLY because the rings couldn’t kill them right?

[@spartanx9293]

@@crusader7eth163 idk

[@darkspark5854]

“the flood will feast once more” My God that is terrifying. Because it begs the question, how many times have they done this? *Round and round we go forever, in this little game. No matter how long it takes, it always ends the same…* *Time may flow and crops will grow until the flesh is ripe. And in the end as always it is we who finish the fight…*

[@CaptainJackMorenzo]

Very good poetry, Defiantly could hear the Gravemind say that.

[@kingofhearts3185]

Very much in the style of the gravemind, well done.

[@shauntempley9757]

We have not faced the Flood at its smartest and most deadliest, when we see humanity's best tools betray them right at the worst of the fight. We faced them one at a time, in two separate trilogies.

[@DeltaGammaKilo]

Once every 50,000 years or so. You could say that they 'reap' the intelligent life in the galaxy, en mass. Effective.

[@mullerpotgieter]

The universe is some 8 billion years old. So being conservative, 2-3 billion at least. Gotta wait for the stars and planets to form

[@enceladus-117]

So basically The Flood is just a good ol' farmer growing their food

[@spartanx9293]

not really the flood are more like a faction of precursors

[@aceofconquest5745]

growing their food@@spartanx9293

[@SilverStarHeggisist]

The precursors are like the farm tractor, plowing the fields, planting the seeds, spreading fertilizer. To the plants the tractor is a god who brings them life. The flood is the combine, shows up when the crops are ripe for harvest, and is seen as a monster. Both are similar machines that work together and stay in the same barn.

[@East_Coast_Toasty_Boy]

It's not much, but it's honest work.

[@snakeoo7ca]

​@@SilverStarHeggisist if this is true then why did the forerunners try so hard to eradicate the flood?

[@srbingham]

My personal theory has always been that the Logic Plague is simply this: 1) The Mantle is real. 2) You should hold it.

[@Gofaw]

The mantle means nothing, it's a non concept. How can you """hold""" a set of vague undefined principles?

[@srbingham]

@Gofaw The way the Forerunners believed they held it. They believed they held the "responsibility" to govern all life.

[@Gofaw]

@@srbingham basing the thing from which most of the lore builds off of on literally "if i believe it real hard it's real" is kindergarten level shit. The mantle is not a real thing because it was never defined. It's a plot device that means nothing

[@srbingham]

@@Gofaw *Shrug* It's literally the excuse the Forerunners used for every single thing they did. I'm not saying its not bullshit, I'm just saying that it's the "right" by which Forerunners claimed they ruled the Galaxy. My theory is simply that the reason Mendicant turned on them is he was convinced that they did not have the right, and that his kind did.

[@Gofaw]

@@srbingham nah i get your point, i'm just tired of Halo media placing such a focus on a literal non-concept like the Mantle, as if it means anything

[@sharkuel]

For me, Halo Epitaph kinda saved Halo 5 Guardians for me, and actually gave context to Warden Eternal, that felt like a Didact pitch replacement following that... cursed comic. And the ending was so emotional such a great sendoff to Didact as a character, and how the whole Domain chapter got closed. Also, this has to be the most Lovecraftian book up to date.

[@elliotjohnson9415]

I always loved Halo 5 so this book just adds to my love for it tbh.

[@jhnyjoejoe69]

This should have been a short movie or game honestly. Spin off with the Didact or a very long cutscene in some new Halo game.

[@Sosuave95]

But that’s the problem. THAT SHOULDVE BEEN UN THE GAME

[@jasonlaboy]

I don't think there was anything wrong with the story in halo 5, it was just how it was presented and promoted.

[@insertnamehere2746]

But halo lore being entirely done with the domain seems like ut could backfire in terms of future stories they can tell

[@dvdhavern]

Halo: Point of Light say that the last precursor/gravemind was just a sadistic precursor and it was the only one that could revive itself in a gravemind. That the flood was dangerous to living time. This book confirms that the 'mantle' is a test. That the gravemind believes it is a test most species will fail, as other might have in other galaxies.

[@a.r.h9919]

It's an interesting idea that maybe each harvest is carried by a particular member of the precursors with the primordial being the last in charge for carrying the cycle end and beginning himself an embodiment of revenge with others maybe being different emotions like love, indifference, grief, wrath as some each adding to the experiences of the universe like a manager librarian not so different from an artist and it's piece but being in here galaxies; using the flood as it's tool like some landmowner to clean the garden that are the galaxies to fuel the experiences and sweetness of the universe, maybe the precursors have tied themselves beyond the physical real to the universe becoming inextricably part of it by the neural physics and it's physical bodies are just avatars to command their cycles into eternity or they felt it was enough

[@soumyajyotimukherjee4752]

so a even more twisted version of Reapers from Mass Effect

[@dylanv.4970]

And much better explained and executed

[@aw3299]

I was thinking this exact same thing! I could tell from the second he mentioned planting life to grow and develop and then coming to harvest it later was basically just passing off Mass Effect's story in Halo.

[@jhnyjoejoe69]

Basically the Necromorphs

[@noncreativeusername2940]

I just played through the mass effect trilogy for the first time and it was so refreshing. This is what I was thinking when watching the video

[@mullerpotgieter]

Except the Reapers exist to curb advanced races before they wipe themselves and others out with synthetics. They're culling the herd to retain balance. This is just farming in the most fucked up way

[@fireponypownner5258]

Holy shit. To actually think the lore would advance to such a monumental length at this point is truly astonishing. And to think some people were asking for a reboot...

[@Gofaw]

How is it advancing the lore? 343 first made up the Mantle to retcon humans being forerunner, then they made it part of the reason why the forerunners and ancient humanity had beef, and now it turns out it was all for nothing and that the Mantle is a lie and supposed to be for everyone? This is a gigantic literary self own and you're out here praising it? Lmao

[@JessicaSorrentino373]

Tbh halo lore is one of the most fleshed out fictional stories, like some times i feel like "how is all this not real wtf it's so detailed"

[@spat3305]

Those people weren’t fans of Halo, they played it in its prime because it was popular. Real Halo fans know the lore is damn good, it’s a shame we won’t ever see any of the games get this sort of detail.

[@jamesquinn6662]

​@spat3305 no dude, just no

[@Shredow2]

@@jamesquinn6662 use your words to form a real argument.

[@Grizzy-GYo]

Man that totally changes sooo much about original Halo lore but I dig it. It makes the fight against the flood feel even more hopeless despite the victories in the games. Makes me wonder if the humanity will actually be able to take on the flood or if its victory is just kinda inevitable

[@alexalbrecht5768]

The Gravemimd is reminding me more and more of Sovereign from Mass Effect.

[@inductivegrunt94]

That title is definitely something to watch this video for. Everything we knew is a lie? That is a huge rug pull on everything we ever thought we knew about the Mantle of Responsibility.

[@blake4590]

Just wait till 343i eventually says the entire events in the Halo universe was all just a dream

[@mav2553]

​@@blake4590who shot JR?? 😮

[@evancamposs]

Is Just dumb It took a good and tragic story and turned into a overused "gods evil uhuh bet you did not expected that"

[@immortalwarrior2695]

​@@evancampossI mean you can use your own brain. Do you really think precursors are good? Hell No.

[@mixmaster2269]

You said that 2589 may be the end of Halo because it looks like all the galaxy’s major problems will have been solved by then, except now we know that as humanity flourishes, the Flood will just return again to feed…

[@WigSplitters]

Well, the precursors say it is a test, which doesn't 100% mean anyone can ever pass said test, but it's possible, perhaps passing the test means defeating the flood finding a cure etc, ending the precursors cycle

[@duck_entertainment]

Nah

[@simon2493]

Oh fuck. So Forerunners were right all along with their destruction of precursors.

[@AuzarionSolaris]

Yes and the covenant might have been right to fire the array as well. It would have been a massive middle finger to the precursors.

[@offworldangel]

oh my god, so that’s why the flood helped them in halo 2 and 3 so they wouldn’t destroy their harvest early 😭😭😭😭

[@themantheycalledcayde961]

Offensive bias is hopefully going to be more active from now on

[@fishescu]

Don't you mean Medicant? I believe pieces of Medicant were teased/shown to be functional? Or am i confusing this with something else.

[@SmilingEspressoMachine-sh3bj]

It could also turn against it's creators. If need be the tech that forerunner gained was all along precursor in origin nowonder it was able to logic plague defensive bias

[@LAV-III]

In the end the mantle only serves one thing, the universe, and not the life that lives in it.

[@JustAguyNamedJohn.]

makes what the gravemind says in halo 3 make even more sense now

[@chriswhite3692]

what specifically did he say that you refer?

[@garotadalage131]

Quotes like : you will be food.. nothing more. ​@@chriswhite3692

[@lolturtle13]

@chriswhite3692 maybe this one? "Resignation is my virtue; like water I ebb, and flow. Defeat is simply the addition of time to a sentence I never deserved... but you imposed. " The gravemind at the end of halo 3 seemed to imply multiple times that it was not truly defeated. There's another quote where it calls Chiefs' victory nothing but a small stone on a pile of sins from short-sighted fools. He also says during the Cortana mission that he has no heart and cannot be broken.

[@chriswhite3692]

@@lolturtle13 I suppose one instance is the Flood retreating from the humans in their first encounter. It was a feign of defeat to make the Forerunners THINK the humans had found a cure for the FLood and, thus, preserve them.

[@Apexassassin141]

So spark just screwed the other galaxy with bastion and the sample of 'Uncorupted' precursor DNA, we 're fucked

[@LtDavidB312]

This would retroactively salvage that narrative choice IMO. The notion of “oh these were good ones and they get to be good forever now because the bad ones are either gone or contained” was just so unrealistically idealistic and boring that I just hate it as it is presented.

[@kingmasterlord]

​@@LtDavidB312thats literally a description of our real world societal struggles rn

[@berilsevvalbekret772]

Where is this all precursors were bad coming from? It doesn't change the fact those two didn't become the flood shows precursors aren't unanimous.

[@kingmasterlord]

@@berilsevvalbekret772 the secret is some volunteered for the culling and became Flood, others wait to be fed.

[@mullerpotgieter]

​@@berilsevvalbekret772One would think they'd be smart enough to not put all their eggs in one basket. They've been at this for billions of years apparently. I doubt this was the first time a species came up with a Halo level solution

[@dkos8336]

The more you think about the implications, the darker it gets.

[@AudibleFist]

I feel like the Gravemind can’t be trusted here. I mean it acts like this cycle is predictable when it can’t be fully when the Forerunner built the rings, how old is the cycle, and what happened to the species before the Forerunner? It’s just not adding up.

[@stevemarsh8928]

So this basically confirms that the Precursors/flood would now wipe the floor with the Tyranids from 40k. It would consume them just as easily as all other life

[@berilsevvalbekret772]

Flood isn't the entirity of the Precursors. Those two on Path Katona were gentle. There was an actual live one saved a human's life by healing her from her incurable disease. Calling them all lovecraftian uncaring horrors is not the whole truth.

[@mayazmahmud1740]

This theory aligns so much with mass effect reapers.. they wait until new life dominate the world and then come to kill everyone

[@chriswhite3692]

except on a far larger scale and far more deadly. The Flood are extra-galactic. Who knows how many galaxies they harvest.

[@mayazmahmud1740]

@@chriswhite3692 isnt flood only in milkyway galaxy?

[@chriswhite3692]

@@mayazmahmud1740 nope. Extragalactic. In fact, during the first human/Flood war, the Flood intentionally withdrew from the Milky Way. That made the Forerunners think humanity came up with a solution to it and preserved the human race for "Safekeeping".

[@TellMeYourStory4]

"You will be food, nothing more"-Gravemind. (Halo 3)

[@boshua1220]

I’m actually really happy that your theory about the flood/precursors turned out to be true. It was my favorite Halo theory I had ever heard so it basically being true now is just so cool.

[@SpartanBrix]

dude. you didn’t have to put that spoiler in the thumbnail, I’m going to get the book in like two hours.

[@asiblingproduction]

All imperial right to rule declarations tend to be lies. Mandate of Heaven, Manifest Destiny, etc.

[@menace2898]

L

[@warriorshedge6772]

Im gonna do you

[@SpartanBrix]

@@warriorshedge6772 This ain’t Instagram Reels 🙏

[@SpartanBrix]

@@warriorshedge6772 This ain’t Instagram Reels 🙏

[@yungo1rst]

oh cool. i just took your word for it after viewing the previous video on this topic. i wonder how many cycles the floodcursors have done this.

[@rob776]

The Precursors aren't the Flood, anymore than Builders all being Faber.

[@dr.catherineelizabethhalse1820]

This! It has been pretty much confirmed that not all precursors were ideologically aligned. Some seeked the suffering as the sweetness of the universe, some more positive things.

[@chriswhite3692]

I think the Flood are like the harvesting wing of the Precursors. Recall that Forerunners visited the satellite galaxy where Precursors had intentionally de-evolved into mold on the side of a cliff face. Probably like humans retiring into the sticks to live off the land and relax.

[@mav2553]

Back when I played halo 4 I remember it reminded me of the Mass Effect series. I thought of Shepard as a Reclaimer...and I forget the characters name but he was in one of the DLCs in mass effect, an ancient alien species with bionic powers that joined your team, I thought of that guy (alien) as a Forerunner. The similarities blew my mind, to the point where I thought chief was eventually going to get bionic powers like Commander Shepard! And when Bungie left Halo and made Destiny it seemed it was possibly on their minds and maybe 343 just fucked it up. After watching the first season of the new Halo tv show these theories resurfaced in my mind, with them using an artifact that chief was affected by. A lot wishful thinking here, but its fun to theorize. 😄

[@spartanjohn-1176]

😊

[@rossbroomfield5199]

I haven’t read the book but my interpretation would be that while the flood are precursors the precursors are not the flood

[@spartanx9293]

Your interpretation is correct

[@duck_entertainment]

So the exact same as it was?

[@SwiftGundam]

So basically the Reapers from Mass Effect and Brethren Moons from Dead Space. As a mecha individual, I even see comparisons with Majestic Prince.

[@zow8238]

You're very likely not looking at the comments for this anymore, but I'm gonna make this observation anyway, because it just hit me like a ton of bricks. This entire reveal of the Precursors and what their true purpose for intelligent life in the galaxy is puts the Gravemind's line at the end of The Covenant in Halo 3 into context. When Truth says he will become a God, Gravemind says "You will be food. Nothing more." Honestly. HONESTLY, It's such a small, insignificant detail from that game, but with all the information we know now, it makes that line 10,000 times more bone-chilling, because it wasn't just a taunt to Truth. It was a message for the entire galaxy about what the Flood, and by extension, the Precursors, have planned for them. All sentient life... *You will be food. Nothing more.*

[@LewpyDrewpy714]

I remember that video. I think that was about the time I subbed to you. It's a theory that makes sense. We have the ability to create and the ability to absolutely earse what we create. There's something in that book Selintum, spelt wrong, that made me think of this idea too. I'm glad you are bringing this up again. The domain and the mantle of responsibility are artificial constructs. Apparently, it's time for them to be destroyed. To finish their circle.

[@hesperosshamshael2873]

The primordial said the Mantle is a test? And that species always fail? Makes me wonder what the "pass" conditions are. Maybe something along the lines of evening out the great prosperity and growth the Mantle seems to encourage by following it up with a balance of destruction.

[@duck_entertainment]

Probably whoever kills em or figures out their plane

[@additivewolf]

So…the Librarian in Point of Light is about to reseed the Flood? 🤔🤨

[@Mantis_Toboggan_TrashMan]

I also thought this. This has far greater horrifying possibilities. What is the true nature of the "living universe"? Where is all this information and biomass being sent?

[@duck_entertainment]

To themselves, they seem to think they’re so high and mighty but it seems in reality they’re just galactic a-holes

[@An_Inconvenience]

Ive said it once ill say it again. The Didact is the most interesting and one of the most compelling characters in Halo Lore and its a travesty that most people remember him as just "oh that underwelming antagonist from 4"

[@patrickjames7907]

The reason I watch you is your entertaining voice obviously and your content. But even when you said that 3 years ago it was logical and easy to trust even just as a theory. Love you man glad to see you well 🔥

[@jordavlopez5777]

Wait a minute, thats why the didact doesnt want humanity to ascend to the mantle, he wants to prevend the floods to return?

[@chrisg5352]

Sheesh, I remember watching a video where you had brought up your theory and damn…this is honestly some heavy stuff. I’m looking forward to seeing how the series evolves once this information is discovered

[@PackHunter117]

Why did the Precursors/Flood want to destroy all life when only the Forerunners rose up and killed them?

[@Ronnie-mx1wu]

Did you watch the video? That's their whole purpose, precursors seed life and the flood harvest.

[@EggEnjoyer]

Well originally they wanted to kill humanity because the humans were forerunner. But really the flood are just the wrath of the precursors. Thus the name “The flood”, it’s a biblical reference. They’re basically the wrath of god. A grand wrath that’ll wipe the galaxy clean. Even if the other species didn’t do anything. As intelligent as the flood are, they are not a force of rationality. It is a pure force of anger, vengeance and destruction. They are the anger of god personified pretty much.

[@PackHunter117]

@@Ronnie-mx1wu Yes I made the comment before I completely finished the video. So what I understand now is the universe is at the full whims of the Precursors. They create life and help species evolve and grow into their apex forms only to end game test them with the Flood. Of course no one is meant to win the end game test and so everyone gets absorbed into the Flood and then the cycle endlessly repeats. The Halo Array simply delayed the inevitable. Now I understand why the Forerunners rose up against them despite it being for the wrong reason. So the ancient humans killed themselves because the idea that the universe is destined to endlessly repeat the cycle of evolving then dying from the Precursors disturbed them. Which is basically what Installation 00 explained

[@spartanx9293]

​​@Ronnie-mx1wu Except that's a theory, and it's contradicted by the existence of other precursors who did not become flood. And remember, the only source for this theory is the primordial Who is a deliberately described as bitter hateful individual Who wants to take out said hatred on all life because So I wouldn't call him a reliable narrator It is fully possible that the thing he told those ancient humans that made them kill Themselves was a lie

[@crusader7eth163]

@@PackHunter117I hope there is more to it! Like Some sort of way out for the galaxy or some other species or galaxy of precursors that don’t do this cycle, that could help.

[@spartanx9293]

slight issue the domain is a precursor creation and several precursors did not join the flood or actively opposed it your theory also doesn't explain the precursors of Path Kethona

[@joshuacollins9316]

Exactly.

[@xCrimsonxTidex]

This was my thinking as well, but what if the “compassionate” Precursors are just cultivating the galaxy for future consumption? Or if they disagree with the vengeful Precursors, the Flood, and don’t want biological consumption, what if it still is a consumption of other sorts to satisfy their need for “sweetness?” Maybe it’s a loooong war between two factions of Precursors between creation and consumption? The Gravemind certainly isn’t a good source for truth, for he’ll tell many half-truths to suit his end goal.

[@havtheroc]

As I was aware, the Precursors who thought the way the Gravemind does were in the minority.

[@Rising-Fire-Spreads-Its-Light]

Maybe Im late to this, still, I would like to share my opinion on the matter: For starters, I will say that the idea you present on this video and on your previous theory is really interesting and terrifying, and from a certain point of view, everything lines up. However, I think that it is a very specific perspective, one that is not necessarily confirmed by Epitaph: While the words of the Gravemind could be interpreted as you present them, I wouldn’t say it is a confirmation, given that the words of the Gravemind could just reflect the original mindset of the Precursors regarding their authority to create and erase life at their will. I know there’s the line of “We are the Flood. There is no difference.” But that still works with the idea of the Flood being a corrupted version of the Precursors, specially with the words of the Gravemind himself in String 13 of Silentium: “Others became dust that could regenerate our past forms; time rendered this dust defective. It brought only disease and misery; but that was good, we saw the misery and found it good.” Implying that the Flood did not exist before the Precursor Purge. In the end, nice video! Just wanted to share my reasons why I disagree on certain things you said 👍🏻

[@Juanixtec]

"you will be food, nothing more"

[@tedcat117]

Small thing, but Diadact suspects that the domain may be even older than the precursors in the book

[@Hnti4ever]

Just finished the book then immediately watched this video. It's crazy how this book fills in so much between 5 and infinite.

[@Pughhead]

Interesting theory, I still think the flood and precursors are different though. The Primordial was confirmed to be a corrupt and twisted form of the precursors, and him saying that they are the same just means that he was originally a precursor.

[@CrawfordPrime]

I read that in the book too and at first I couldn’t even comprehend it, I read it again and I asked is this true? I thought about it again and read it once more and I felt horror at the realization… that it was. It answered the question why would the Precursors make life anyway? This gave an answer, and from that answer we understand now the truth of the precursors, the flood, and the mantle. Those who cling to the mantle seem to dominate all life, making it subjects to those who claim it as an imperial piece that weakens the galaxy enough for the Flood to consume then start again. The Flood feed on more than flesh, they feed on knowledge, like the Domain stores knowledge the Precursors feed on that knowledge. Perhaps they went there simply for nourishment between harvests. To “pass” their test it seems one needs to reject the mantle and its promise of power but everyone fails because that promise of power is too enticing. I can see why now those humans killer themselves, it would be like believing God was benevolent and made humanity out of love only to hear the truth later that we’re all cattle and one day he’s gonna eat us. That is terrifying.

[@threaders9411]

Maybe just maybe the precursors are split in 2 one group builders and cultivates and the other (the flood) feasts, and they both live outside the milky now And the flood have forced the other group to create and build life/society too a certain "sweet" spot then flood reappear and wipe the galaxy clean

[@AnthonyFeiner]

I remember reading the conversation between the gravemind and didact and thinking...was it lying? Telling a half truth or distorting the truth? I'm not sure I take it's word as gospel. Perhaps it knew how to twist words to instill a sense of hopelessness in it's enemies so that they would feel futile in continuing their fight. I just don't know it it can be trusted completely.... the deeper lore was always fascinating to me because of how enigmatic certain aspects were. Maybe I just don't want to know the full truth as much as I think I do. I'll leave this quote between the didact and haruspis to end my thoughts: “If you could know all that transpired before,” the Didact asked, “would you?” “I do not believe ‘knowing all’ is necessary. Knowing diminishes the mysticism and godlike nature of the archive. Knowing eliminates sentient beings’ search for meaning, and without that, they will never progress.”

[@Troubleshooter11]

That seems kinda similar to the Reapers from Mass Effect. Let life grow along certain set parameters but with enough flexibility to encourage diversity, then harvest them. Rinse, repeat.

[@Champe19]

Anyone reminded of the trailer with chief walking through the desert in the cloak?

[@v02max75]

Oof....that's a heavy revelation. Better get that MJOLNIR armor done before it's too late, Installation00. We're gonna need it for the fight yet to come.

[@Yamiskii]

Reminds me a lot of mass effect and the reapers

[@macrograms]

We're all flood food. I am Jack's complete lack of surprise.

[@jaralara6429]

I think in a previous video you were saying that the Flood was not the test since the forerunners failed the test before the flood came. How do you reconcile this with Halo: Epitaph's new information? It seems like the Gravemind was saying that the test WAS the Flood. Also, if the Didact's desire to prevent humanity's ascension would have a noble element of preventing the Flood from returning too soon, it would be so good- have to check out the audiobook

[@kevlofi]

I’m in awe. Maybe 343i can do something right after all.

[@jayburn00]

Makes the flood seem like better thought out reapers (mass effect). Perhaps this is even part of the precursor life cycle (and its a constant loop, precursor becomes flood assimilates the dominant species, becomes super graveminds, eventually turns back to precursor, starts the process all over again), similar to the brethren moons from dead space.

[@stormbreaker7373]

Bro is the spire he walks too The multiplayer map Epitaph in Halo 3?!

[@Aabergm]

That fits with the overall dark nature of the Halo Universe. Also explains why the Forerunners killed the shit out of them, they took their jobs seriously, what it doesn't explain is why the forerunners who did the killing were ashamed of this. Afterall if the Mantle is preeminent then there is no shame in upholding it.

[@theblueheart2662]

You have no IDEA how much I ADORE that that theory was correct. Ever since I heard it I thought it was one of the most peak pieces of potential halo lore I'd ever heard. Retroactively made the flood much more interesting and horrific as well as the precursors. I never had much interest in the forerunner trilogy lore cuz from how it was explained to me it always seemed kinda mid. HOWEVER! THIS! We eatin good. So are the precursors I guess...

[@berilsevvalbekret772]

The theory is half correct. Flood is not ALL the precursors especially considering Primordial who is consumed by rage and hatred isn't the best most reliable nerrator.

[@Noirangel797]

I've been away with work the past couple weeks and read Epitaph whilst away. I have to say, I find myself liking the Diadact as a character now!

[@alanrodriguez210]

Halo's story has always been about sentient life stopping an interdimensional god-like alien feast.

[@Goldsmanx43]

Might want to retitle the video there

[@Nighterlev]

Disagree with this theory. In my opinion, the Precursors exist, while the Flood is used as the Primordial's vengeance tool. The Epitaph book says as much, the whole reason the Flood was created is because the Primordial wanted it. We also know other Precursors are still active in the Milky Way, 2 of which show up in Halo Outcasts (which you seemed to of forgotten?), and the 2 the Librarian placed on the shield world Bastion. The Flood aren't the Precursors, the Flood is the Primordial's vengeance tool, plain and simple.

[@sargepent9815]

"You will be FOOD....nothing more" - Gravemind

[@justin8241]

It was a good book for sure.

[@Juan_Dominguez]

So the Flood are basically more leathal Reapers lol

[@sallyh1480]

duhhh

[@JessicaSorrentino373]

Ofcourse lol

[@sergioizzaqt7707]

They somehow explained what the flood and precursors are and made them even more terrifying.

[@clichenatureboy3168]

For years I've feared that your theory was the truth behind them both. This has my jaw on the floor. I'm in absolute shock.

[@Chounubis]

So to use an analogy from Gnosticism, Precurors = sociopathic creator "god," or "the Demiurge" (aka me!) Got it.

[@dannybodros5180]

"Shepard, you ARE the Reapers!"

[@alexlyster3459]

I'm not so sure about this. At least not entirely. I think the Flood and the Precursors are botht the same and different. To be specific, I don't think they Precursors were always the Flood. I think that particularly twisted and spiteful form they took did genuinely come about 10 million years ago after the Forerunner uprising, hiwever i do think that they had long performed the role of the Flood themselves, seeding and then culling civilisations that had failed their test of the mantle for a long long time. That reckoning had likely always been named the Flood in their minds. However the Flood as the Forerunners knew it, and as the Primordial correctly predicted would escape from their Halo contaiment facilities and eventually test humanity? That Flood is a dark twisted evolution of what the Precursors once were. No more joy, and love of life. No more grand buildings of Star Roads, or Neural physics achievements etc... Just pure distilled cruelty and malice. No more desire to seed life in the first place, only the later desire to ruin and corrupt it.

[@h2opower]

It would seem that the solution to the Flood is the same as that used against species 8472 in Start Trek. It a single cell of 8472 would come in contact with the body it would consume the entire body over time, but with the solution of the Borg nanoprobes the cell division is halted, and that would then be a cure, yes? What are you thoughts on that idea?

[@Sherlock245]

It won't work cause everyone has some genetic dna with the flood.

[@christianyaerger1751]

There's a clear parallel between the Flood and the Domain. They both incorporate lives and experiences. But the Flood focus on instilling anguish into their prey, then absorbing them. The Domain by contrast focuses on the full breadth of experience, but works to promote integration and fulfillment among the spirits within it. Both were created by the Precursors. I wonder what would happen if the Flood infected the Domain? Could the Domain in turn infect the Flood?

[@shep9231]

wow. I never expected this theory to become true. Gravemind was right all along, we are to be food. nothing more. I beg to differ sir.

[@brengund9881]

I'm really hoping the precursors get JUST a little more lore without taking away their mystique. I love what has been done with the Forerunners. But the precursors don't need the same treatment.

[@rileyscheller7739]

didn't he just make a video about secret AI's halting human progression from the shadows? that could link with this.

[@rileyscheller7739]

AI’s keeping humans from reaching the stage where they are ready to be attacked by the flood while trying to find a way to deal with the problem

[@AuzarionSolaris]

@@rileyscheller7739holy crap that might be what’s going on…

[@rileyscheller7739]

@@AuzarionSolaris yea and the AI’s were human ones from the pre-halo firing right?

[@TheCrazeturk]

I still think the Bungie lore of the Flood being an extra-galatic parasite of completely unknown origin is even more terrifying.

[@JohnG44]

It's still the same the parasite consumed everything and every galaxy is being tested as well.

[@QP9237]

Sounds like the Elder God's Wheel from legacy of kain

[@barch118]

That’s crazy. This changes everything

[@lankadominions959]

Hmmm not sure this constitutes a true vindication. I think the use of the word "we" is important here is the Gravemind describing the precursors, the flood or some amalgamation (as 001 contends). It's possible that the Gravemind is simply describing what happened. Perhaps other species tried to take on the Precursors before the Forerunners. But only with Frs and humanity faced the Precursors' wrath in the form of the Flood. Also the description of the mantle as a test implies that passing is a possibility and species are not necessarily set up to fail.

[@michaelmckeithan2293]

So Halo is basically Mass Effect now

[@Lazypackmule]

They're so close to regaining the series' biblical themes The flood are truly the precursors and not just some corruption people can handwave, so now all that's left is one more step- recognizing that the god of the Halo universe isn't evil

[@zipflame]

I gotta disagree with the interpretation here. The first thing I want to point out is you should always take anything the gravemind says with a massive grain of salt. It’s words aren’t meant to convey truth but rather further it’s goals and inflict as much suffering as possible. I don’t disagree that the entity known as the gravemind or primordial was a precursor. But there are some undisputed facts to keep in mind. The primordial was locked away originally by other precursors. Not only that but in the book Point of Light it’s revealed that not all precursors share the same nature. The librarian set in motion plans for the precursors to be reseaded in another galaxy. If they were truly the flood, she wouldn’t have done that. My interpretation is that the flood are precursor yes, but mad radicals that diverge from the rest. What I have noticed is that the flood and the domain are both a collection of knowledge consciousness and experience. However the flood is a twisted version of the domain. I believe we are still missing some key context to truly understand the flood precursor distinction, but I won’t say that the precursors as a whole are the flood.

[@srmj71]

That's a good comparison. The flood and the domain. Bears further thought. Thanks zip!

[@Josua070]

You are me, yet I am not you. From some of the comments here, I think this phrase sums it up the best in regards of how to approach the whole "The Flood are the Precursors".

[@jadeno.2872]

more like flood are precursors but precursors are not flood, also the primordial is still in control/ the same consciousness as during the forerunner flood war, and not all precursors were with the primordials hate for the forerunners

[@Baba_Lysaga]

The Precursors plan to seed and grow intelligent life just to consume them is very similar to the Reapers and their cycle of intelligent life consumption.

[@AuzarionSolaris]

That explains why the forerunners who attacked the precursors killed themselves after the “slaughter” I wonder if they knew what was going to happen…

[@AuzarionSolaris]

Also wouldn’t that mean in a messed up way that firing the halos, and the great journey are kinda a good thing? Like somehow the covenant were the good guys from the beginning? So many new questions from this one confirmed theory.

[@Baytuh]

So its a Mass Effect reapers situation huh. I love it.

[@spartanx9293]

it's not The primordial and by extension the flood Are more like a faction Other precursors went through the same process and didn't go nuts and start murdering everyone It's specifically stated that the flood aren't just trying to fulfill some sort of plan they're hateful

[@mav2553]

Back when I played halo 4 I thought the same exaxt thing! I aslo thought of Shepard as a Reclaimer...and I forget the characters name but he was in one of the DLCs of mass effect, an ancient alien species with bionic powers that joined your team, I thought of that guy (alien) as a Forerunner. The similarities blew my mind, to the point where I thought chief was eventually going to get bionic powers like Commander Shepard! And when Bungie left Halo and made Destiny it seemed it was possibly on their minds and maybe 343 just fucked it up. After watching the first season of the new Halo tv show these theories resurfaced in my mind, with them using an artifact that chief was affected by. A lot wishful thinking here, but its fun to theorize. 😄

[@jackinsights]

This has Mass Effect Reaper reasoning vibes to it.

[@korvusknull1447]

Then a new question is formed, who birthed the farmers? A new question beyond that, do they have any competitors?

[@taylorberry5228]

A mite disappointed the Mantle turned out to be the Mass Relays.

[@trethornton1709]

Can they escape the cycle ? It’s very much reminding me of the cycle from Mass Effect with the Reapers

[@poasttoasties6655]

so halo really out here doing a reverse mass effect. fuckin meat reapers.

[@sitroom8922]

I think we need to take what we learn with a grain of salt. Keep in mind at the Gravemind is not necessarily giving 100% accurate information. I'm not saying the Gravemind isn't telling the straight truth. What I am saying is that it is possible the truth is a matter of interpretation.

[@JessicaSorrentino373]

It says what it deems is necessary for the victory and to Break the will power of the enemy

[@Gr33nOfGrundleburg]

Seems the Didact was right about something. Time was our ally, but it has abandoned us.

[@mixmaster2269]

This is probably what the Harbinger told Lucas Browning.

[@Jedi_Spartan]

Based on statements about the Precursors in other recent books, I find that this is unlikely.

[@gabemigone]

Yeah,it has literally been stated that multiple precursors disagreed with what the Flood were doing and it has been stated that the Precursors are not the same as the flood,as the ones who were reseeded were literally stated as being uncorrupted remains,plus the living Precursors that were in the second most recent book are also uncorrupted,as they healed an incurable disease and tried to save the people exploring their dying planet,so yeah,they are definitely not the Flood,plus,I doubt the Gravemind wouldn't lie in order to make people and AI go insane.

[@johnbornjohnborn]

The mantle IS a lie. It's basically a lesser logic plague. Used to help the crop grow with suffering. It's used to ensure imbalance and suffering in life. So when they harvest they get all the bitter sweetness.

[@8BitLifts]

Yeah I think what he is saying is partially correct, but it doesn't apply to all Precursors.

[@yammt3148]

See... If 343 WASN'T a failure, they would have made the Precursors the next villains instead of robots... Dummies.

[@UlisesMartinezMx]

I have reheard over and over your theory on what the primordial taught ancient humans that drove them to suicide because I couldn’t fathom such darkness in the Halo universe and now your words become a prophecy. Almost hate you for ruining the book for me but can’t help to also feel proud!