The Mantle is a Lie | Halo Epitaph

[@sharkuel]

For me, Halo Epitaph kinda saved Halo 5 Guardians for me, and actually gave context to Warden Eternal, that felt like a Didact pitch replacement following that... cursed comic. And the ending was so emotional such a great sendoff to Didact as a character, and how the whole Domain chapter got closed. Also, this has to be the most Lovecraftian book up to date.

[@elliotjohnson9415]

I always loved Halo 5 so this book just adds to my love for it tbh.

[@jhnyjoejoe69]

This should have been a short movie or game honestly. Spin off with the Didact or a very long cutscene in some new Halo game.

[@Sosuave95]

But that’s the problem. THAT SHOULDVE BEEN UN THE GAME

[@jasonlaboy]

I don't think there was anything wrong with the story in halo 5, it was just how it was presented and promoted.

[@insertnamehere2746]

But halo lore being entirely done with the domain seems like ut could backfire in terms of future stories they can tell

[@Crimson-kt7fd]

Precursors went from life giving Bug men to the Brethren Moons with their markers real quick

[@spartanx9293]

some still are the precursors are not a monolith there were two precursors on Path Kethona who "After dying, the two Precursors became samples that were studied and encoded, and planted in the ground as seeds that would germinate for a million years. Their sprouts that climbed to the surface took even longer and bloomed only in the last million years. Unlike the Primordial, these were Precursors that celebrated joy instead of relishing in suffering and as a result, the blooms were not left corrupted with violence and misery but instead were clean, beautiful, and bright."

[@crusader7eth163]

@@spartanx9293 I wonder could the endless be the precursors new young un-condemned form meant to reclaim the responsibility of the mantle?

[@spartanx9293]

@crusader7eth163 I don't know there's not enough lore about them to speculate

[@crusader7eth163]

@@spartanx9293I mean why on earth was the endless more dangerous than the flood as was said in infinite. surely it’s not ONLY because the rings couldn’t kill them right?

[@spartanx9293]

@@crusader7eth163 idk

[@mrmwatchesyoutube972]

I see why ancient humans who heard this killed themselves, their worldview and sense of importance was crushed in the wake of these horrifying revelations

[@terrykrugii5652]

Not only that, it was a vain attempt to escape the flood's eventual eternal torture. Better to die by one's own hand than to be subsumed into the flood hive mind

[@kingmasterlord]

​​@@terrykrugii5652not a very human response to such news. "Finally, a worthy opponent 🤤" seems more fitting

[@mullerpotgieter]

@@kingmasterlord I think the more human response would be "you know what, I'm gonna fight tooth and nail just to spite you"

[@kingmasterlord]

@@mullerpotgieter don't seem mutually exclusive to me

[@johnwiks2597]

​@ThatGuy-bh9qhTrue, but nobody remembers those who despaired

[@blockwood316]

What a mind f**k. The question of "how many times have we done this?" took me waaay back to The Matrix, and remembering that feeling of hopelessness when you discover that mankind has done that dance countless times before, and will do it countless times after.

[@kingmasterlord]

have you read the Gunslinger series by Stephen King?

[@a.r.h9919]

"How many times have thee eaten a piece of bread in your life" ?. Now translate that into trillions upon trillions of years before there were even stars and you can imagine the amount of times your life to this moments has been compared to how many times you've eaten crumbs of bread and how long it lasted compared against one another.

[@dvdhavern]

Halo: Point of Light say that the last precursor/gravemind was just a sadistic precursor and it was the only one that could revive itself in a gravemind. That the flood was dangerous to living time. This book confirms that the 'mantle' is a test. That the gravemind believes it is a test most species will fail, as other might have in other galaxies.

[@a.r.h9919]

It's an interesting idea that maybe each harvest is carried by a particular member of the precursors with the primordial being the last in charge for carrying the cycle end and beginning himself an embodiment of revenge with others maybe being different emotions like love, indifference, grief, wrath as some each adding to the experiences of the universe like a manager librarian not so different from an artist and it's piece but being in here galaxies; using the flood as it's tool like some landmowner to clean the garden that are the galaxies to fuel the experiences and sweetness of the universe, maybe the precursors have tied themselves beyond the physical real to the universe becoming inextricably part of it by the neural physics and it's physical bodies are just avatars to command their cycles into eternity or they felt it was enough

[@Grizzy-GYo]

Man that totally changes sooo much about original Halo lore but I dig it. It makes the fight against the flood feel even more hopeless despite the victories in the games. Makes me wonder if the humanity will actually be able to take on the flood or if its victory is just kinda inevitable

[@enceladus-117]

So basically The Flood is just a good ol' farmer growing their food

[@spartanx9293]

not really the flood are more like a faction of precursors

[@aceofconquest5745]

growing their food@@spartanx9293

[@SilverStarHeggisist]

The precursors are like the farm tractor, plowing the fields, planting the seeds, spreading fertilizer. To the plants the tractor is a god who brings them life. The flood is the combine, shows up when the crops are ripe for harvest, and is seen as a monster. Both are similar machines that work together and stay in the same barn.

[@East_Coast_Toasty_Boy]

It's not much, but it's honest work.

[@snakeoo7ca]

​@@SilverStarHeggisist if this is true then why did the forerunners try so hard to eradicate the flood?

[@darkspark5854]

“the flood will feast once more” My God that is terrifying. Because it begs the question, how many times have they done this? *Round and round we go forever, in this little game. No matter how long it takes, it always ends the same…* *Time may flow and crops will grow until the flesh is ripe. And in the end as always it is we who finish the fight…*

[@CaptainJackMorenzo]

Very good poetry, Defiantly could hear the Gravemind say that.

[@kingofhearts3185]

Very much in the style of the gravemind, well done.

[@shauntempley9757]

We have not faced the Flood at its smartest and most deadliest, when we see humanity's best tools betray them right at the worst of the fight. We faced them one at a time, in two separate trilogies.

[@DeltaGammaKilo]

Once every 50,000 years or so. You could say that they 'reap' the intelligent life in the galaxy, en mass. Effective.

[@mullerpotgieter]

The universe is some 8 billion years old. So being conservative, 2-3 billion at least. Gotta wait for the stars and planets to form

[@srbingham]

My personal theory has always been that the Logic Plague is simply this: 1) The Mantle is real. 2) You should hold it.

[@Gofaw]

The mantle means nothing, it's a non concept. How can you """hold""" a set of vague undefined principles?

[@srbingham]

@Gofaw The way the Forerunners believed they held it. They believed they held the "responsibility" to govern all life.

[@Gofaw]

@@srbingham basing the thing from which most of the lore builds off of on literally "if i believe it real hard it's real" is kindergarten level shit. The mantle is not a real thing because it was never defined. It's a plot device that means nothing

[@srbingham]

@@Gofaw *Shrug* It's literally the excuse the Forerunners used for every single thing they did. I'm not saying its not bullshit, I'm just saying that it's the "right" by which Forerunners claimed they ruled the Galaxy. My theory is simply that the reason Mendicant turned on them is he was convinced that they did not have the right, and that his kind did.

[@Gofaw]

@@srbingham nah i get your point, i'm just tired of Halo media placing such a focus on a literal non-concept like the Mantle, as if it means anything

[@philippebrown342]

"Dear humanity, we regret being alien bastards, we regret creating you, and we most certainly regret that you managed to supersede our precursor level of existence" -sgt Johnsons decendent about to defeat the precursors in the year 25530000000

[@anthonygallardo246]

Oorah!

[@madjoe9679]

I always wanted a Greg Bear Ancient Humanity trilogy that mirrored his Forerunner trilogy and when we lost Greg I thought the ancient human and forerunner stories would become lost, but Kelly Gay has truly kept his work alive while creating her own very compelling continuations of the stories as well as connecting them to current events. Well done Kelly Gay! Greg would be proud!

[@memosanchez8916]

So basically the primordials are like the bretheren moons and markers from the dead space franchise they just cultivate intelligent life to absorb it once more

[@udamthewaster9454]

That's what I was thinking

[@overland1178]

And reapers from dead space

[@udamthewaster9454]

@@overland1178 reapers are from mass effect

[@sentriple5120]

Its a biblical reference to the mark of the beast in revelation 13

[@alexlyster3459]

Similar but not quite. The original Precursors were quite different. While it seems like they might have had an endless cycle of creating, and eventually destroying their "failed creations", for having failed their test of the Mantle. Eventually it was the Forrunners turn to fail the Mantle, which they inevitably did, but instead of letting themselves die out, they rose up and mostly wiped out the Precursors. However, they didn't QUITE get them all. And from among those few survivors, the Primordial was born. A particularly twisted and bitter Precursor that would then unleash the flood on Humantiy and the Forerunners out of spite and vengeance.

[@SmileyBoi21]

“I am the darkness where all life dies, all life exists simply to sacrifice.” - Darth Nihilus I feel like this quote perfectly encompasses how I see the Flood/Precursors

[@spartanx9293]

The issue is this flies in the face of the existence of the precursors of Path Kethona

[@joshpetersen5968]

@@spartanx9293 Possibly the Flood precursors were a faction of the Precursors and the ones in Path Kethona were of another, different faction with different beliefs. Sort of like the Xel'naga from Starcraft 2 with Amon and Narud versus Ouros and the other Xel'naga

[@spartanx9293]

@joshpetersen5968 That likely is the case there were also some precursors on Netherop who healed a woman with a prion Disease before fucking off to parts unknown but not Before giving her a vague warning that anyone who stays on that planet would die Honestly, I like the idea that there's still around in many forms some "good" some "evil" Some in between

[@TrepidDestiny]

@@joshpetersen5968Honestly, factions would be a disappointing revelation. To me it dilutes the cosmic horror aspect and ultimately trivializes it. I want my bad guys to be an unknowable monolith. United in purpose and thought, unyielding, and unknowable.

[@joshpetersen5968]

@@TrepidDestiny To each their own, I suppose. Me personally, I dislike cosmic horror. Too depressing for someone with my outlook and beliefs. I mostly avoid horror (especially Lovecraftian cosmic horror)myself with the only one horror I watch with any regularity being Alien and Aliens. Again not knocking it, I can recognize a good story and I'm not saying it doesn't have its merits, it just isn't for me.

[@fireponypownner5258]

Holy shit. To actually think the lore would advance to such a monumental length at this point is truly astonishing. And to think some people were asking for a reboot...

[@Gofaw]

How is it advancing the lore? 343 first made up the Mantle to retcon humans being forerunner, then they made it part of the reason why the forerunners and ancient humanity had beef, and now it turns out it was all for nothing and that the Mantle is a lie and supposed to be for everyone? This is a gigantic literary self own and you're out here praising it? Lmao

[@JessicaSorrentino373]

Tbh halo lore is one of the most fleshed out fictional stories, like some times i feel like "how is all this not real wtf it's so detailed"

[@spat3305]

Those people weren’t fans of Halo, they played it in its prime because it was popular. Real Halo fans know the lore is damn good, it’s a shame we won’t ever see any of the games get this sort of detail.

[@jamesquinn6662]

​@spat3305 no dude, just no

[@Shredow2]

@@jamesquinn6662 use your words to form a real argument.

[@BrokenEyes00]

The Domain is a carnivorous Library. It’s books the digested memories of countless civilizations.

[@a.r.h9919]

Like a pollination cycle with the flood being the spores that after finishing to settle they transcend from matter to information to print to the domain and universe

[@soumyajyotimukherjee4752]

so a even more twisted version of Reapers from Mass Effect

[@dylanv.4970]

And much better explained and executed

[@aw3299]

I was thinking this exact same thing! I could tell from the second he mentioned planting life to grow and develop and then coming to harvest it later was basically just passing off Mass Effect's story in Halo.

[@jhnyjoejoe69]

Basically the Necromorphs

[@noncreativeusername2940]

I just played through the mass effect trilogy for the first time and it was so refreshing. This is what I was thinking when watching the video

[@mullerpotgieter]

Except the Reapers exist to curb advanced races before they wipe themselves and others out with synthetics. They're culling the herd to retain balance. This is just farming in the most fucked up way

[@inductivegrunt94]

That title is definitely something to watch this video for. Everything we knew is a lie? That is a huge rug pull on everything we ever thought we knew about the Mantle of Responsibility.

[@blake4590]

Just wait till 343i eventually says the entire events in the Halo universe was all just a dream

[@mav2553]

​@@blake4590who shot JR?? 😮

[@evancamposs]

Is Just dumb It took a good and tragic story and turned into a overused "gods evil uhuh bet you did not expected that"

[@SaviourSword995]

​@@evancampossI mean you can use your own brain. Do you really think precursors are good? Hell No.

[@xcfjdyrkdtulkgfilhu]

There are elements I agree with and elements I'm still struggling over. Contradicting the Mantle meaning that one bestest species is supposed to act as imperial ruler of the rest of the galaxy, benevolently so long as the others don't get uppity but violently if they do? Yeah, that seemed like a bad ideology all along. But can we trust the Gravemind / Primordial's side of the story fully? I'm not sure we can, to the extent of ignoring that the immaterial Netherop Precursors, or the two who voluntarily died to become the Bastion seeds, seem to have some fundamental philosophical differences from the Flood one. What seems more likely? That the others were just biding their time before everything is Floodified, or that Gravemind is weaving together some truths, some lies, and some "from a certain point of view" to traumatize those he means to drive mad? Wild-ass guess here, but I think maybe the lore is hinting at the Precursors' plan indeed being for "ripe" species to be resorbed into the living universe after a season at the apex of development - but that's supposed to happen by entering the domain in an act of ascension. The other Precursors are still long-gaming for that to happen, albeit with some nudges and manipulation rather than fully voluntarily. The Primordial isn't lying per se about the point being to resorb mature species, but bitterness and revenge for the forerunner rebellion is driving it to a corrupted means of getting to the same end, namely using the Flood as a bioweapon to eat life's essences, and gathering those essences to itself rather than to the domain in general.

[@maeshg1969]

Adding to that that the domain itself consider the flood as a taint, I'd tend to agree with you

[@dr.catherineelizabethhalse1820]

Indeed not all the precursors were the same.This heaven and hell situation kinda reminds me the story of Soma were there were two afterlifes for humanity; one horrifying unity on the physical world and one virtual one.

[@vyiz1004]

"I? I, am a (Monument), to all your sins": 1 A structure, such as a building or sculpture, erected as a memorial. 2 An inscribed marker placed at a grave; a tombstone. 3 Something venerated for its enduring historic significance or association with a notable past person or thing.

[@alexalbrecht5768]

The Gravemimd is reminding me more and more of Sovereign from Mass Effect.

[@themantheycalledcayde961]

Offensive bias is hopefully going to be more active from now on

[@fishescu]

Don't you mean Medicant? I believe pieces of Medicant were teased/shown to be functional? Or am i confusing this with something else.

[@SmilingEspressoMachine-sh3bj]

It could also turn against it's creators. If need be the tech that forerunner gained was all along precursor in origin nowonder it was able to logic plague defensive bias

[@mixmaster2269]

You said that 2589 may be the end of Halo because it looks like all the galaxy’s major problems will have been solved by then, except now we know that as humanity flourishes, the Flood will just return again to feed…

[@WigSplitters]

Well, the precursors say it is a test, which doesn't 100% mean anyone can ever pass said test, but it's possible, perhaps passing the test means defeating the flood finding a cure etc, ending the precursors cycle

[@duck_entertainment]

Nah

[@simon2493]

Oh fuck. So Forerunners were right all along with their destruction of precursors.

[@AuzarionSolaris]

Yes and the covenant might have been right to fire the array as well. It would have been a massive middle finger to the precursors.

[@offworldangel]

oh my god, so that’s why the flood helped them in halo 2 and 3 so they wouldn’t destroy their harvest early 😭😭😭😭

[@JustAguyNamedJohn.]

makes what the gravemind says in halo 3 make even more sense now

[@chriswhite3692]

what specifically did he say that you refer?

[@garotadalage131]

Quotes like : you will be food.. nothing more. ​@@chriswhite3692

[@lolturtle13]

@chriswhite3692 maybe this one? "Resignation is my virtue; like water I ebb, and flow. Defeat is simply the addition of time to a sentence I never deserved... but you imposed. " The gravemind at the end of halo 3 seemed to imply multiple times that it was not truly defeated. There's another quote where it calls Chiefs' victory nothing but a small stone on a pile of sins from short-sighted fools. He also says during the Cortana mission that he has no heart and cannot be broken.

[@chriswhite3692]

@@lolturtle13 I suppose one instance is the Flood retreating from the humans in their first encounter. It was a feign of defeat to make the Forerunners THINK the humans had found a cure for the FLood and, thus, preserve them.

[@jamesdavison3172]

I can't help but notice the striking similarities between the flood and the domain. Both are living information/memory (or "sweetness") vacuums, expect one is voluntary and the other is not. My current head canon is that the Precursors have a lust for experiencing the "sweetness" of the universe and do so by creating life in each galaxy they visit. They then give their creations the domain to catalog their experiences so that the precursors can one day come back and retrieve it and experience all of the information and memories saved. It is already documented in Point of Light that some Precursors are kind and do not relish in suffering like the Gravemind, and even a few Precursors helped cure an "incurable" human disease and shelter Sangheili defenders in Outcasts, so the idea of the entire Precursor race always turning to the flood with unanimous approval doesn't quite sit with me. Another interesting tidbit is the domain not being completely destroyed by the firing of the halos suggests that the Precursors took great effort to ensure its survival, making it far more robust than all their other tech. Personally, I believe the flood is either a contingency measure that forcefully consumes all life in the event of an uprising that threatens their species and/or makes the domain method no longer viable, or is simply a preferred method of gathering their "sweetness" by some, but not all of the Precursors. If true, that would mean that the floods hunger is not to eat for survival as we do, but to insidiously catalog through consumption. Funny enough, it was the Graveminds message to the Librarian in Silentium about the domain being Precursor implying that it will be destroyed by the halos firing and thus the destruction of all Forerunner history that led to the domain getting repaired by the surviving Forerunners after the firing of the halos. Had the Gravemind not delivered this message, the Librarian wouldn’t have left a message and it never would have been repaired. I always interpreted this as the Gravemind wanting to get one last jab in at the Librarian, but it could also be that the Gravemind wanted the domain to be repaired and thus through the guise of a demoralizing jab, warned the Librarian in case the flood does actually fail so that the cataloging could continue. Either way, the Precursors will get their "sweetness" one way or another when they return.

[@HuskySansVergogne]

We are nothing but space foie gras for these precursors/flood gentlemen. They're not that different from us here on earth. They grow their food, make farms, etc.... It's the same thing but on a cosmic scale, and we are seeing it from the cattle's point of view. It's immediately more horrifying. Also I think you have a point concerning the "good" precursors. They must have their version of Peta or something. Precursors/Flood activists 😂

[@rigsofroads]

The idea of precusors peta is gold 😂😂

[@pivot7897]

Are the Precursors and Domain one and the same. One mental data, the other physical data? Both consume to live .

[@kingme9537]

If there can be doomsday cults in us humans who live in reality, why can’t those who lie in the in between of reality and unreality have their own doomsday cults, but can can bring that unreality to reality.

[@stryletz]

Or the flood could be what they unleash when a universe become stagnant, a way to clear the board to allow new life and new experiences to emerge.

[@LAV-III]

In the end the mantle only serves one thing, the universe, and not the life that lives in it.

[@AudibleFist]

I feel like the Gravemind can’t be trusted here. I mean it acts like this cycle is predictable when it can’t be fully when the Forerunner built the rings, how old is the cycle, and what happened to the species before the Forerunner? It’s just not adding up.

[@NarrowGate117]

“Ah yes, ‘Reapers’”

[@Freelancer.Warzone]

The immortal race of sentient popcorn allegedly waiting in dark space. We have dismissed this claim.

[@dkos8336]

The more you think about the implications, the darker it gets.

[@stevemarsh8928]

So this basically confirms that the Precursors/flood would now wipe the floor with the Tyranids from 40k. It would consume them just as easily as all other life

[@jakespacepiratee3740]

I think the Endless are a big piece of the mystery of the Mantle. Harbinger constantly talks about how the Forerunners lied about something. I think it’s a Lie that Humanitys destiny was to Reclaim the Mantle. Harbinger has the Reclaimer Symbol on her Helmet and Back Armor. The New Halo Encyclopaedia revealed that the Harbinger was a member of the “Endless Ruling Class” so the fact that they represent themselves through the Reclaimer Symbol shows that the Forerunners didn’t invent that symbol and considering that Harbinger basically has magic (Neural Physics) while Humanity does not, it may be possible that Humanity did not ultimately amount to much in the eyes of the Precursors, but rather the Forerunners.

[@crusader7eth163]

What if the endless are from another galaxy that came to this one long ago originally to stop the precursors death cycle. Maybe that’s why she tells chief ”I am not your enemy”. perhaps she knows the true enemy way above our heads. Also her name contradicts the death-life cycle if they are endless? I feel although the endless was trying to stop the precursors but without ending it all or the precursors made the endless to combat the forerunners rings and still have something to feed on, or EVEN some precursors going against this galaxies ruling precursors and trying to leave some hope for their creations? I mean destroying ALL life is something even the flood didn’t want but in everyone else’s eyes it’s better to wipe the flood out than to curse all future to damnation. ps the endless is a race trying to stop that cycle but just like with the humans the forerunners saw them as a threat. So many questions. I want answers 😅 I also thought of a few things as I was listening that almost points towards the endless playing a much grander way up there role of changing the galaxy. I think I remember some older books mentioning that some precursors went to another galaxy too? Perhaps could the endless be from that galaxy where they won or escaped or maybe even the precursors in that galaxy didn’t have the same life death goal? I’m seriously teething for more. I don’t think it makes to much sense for the endless to wear the reclaimer symbol like a badge of honour if they actually knew the end goal? Perhaps not all precursors turned to the flood and the cycle? Maybe some left the mantle to actually teach them how to not turn into what they became like some sort of guideline to one day have a species that could take over from the precursor?🫡to much 🤯 I just feel like it’s not as clear cut that the precursors All had the same idea and plan.

[@ThePrimordialArchon]

Humanity was forcibly de-evolved by the ur-didact

[@thewerdna]

The Endless are most likely precursors who devolved themselves as they apparently like to do sometimes.

[@rbo7]

The gravemind/primordial outright says humanity are the ones chosen. To me, the Endless are the ones before the Forerunners. The Primordial being the gravemind from the flood that killed them. Because he wasnt able to be killed by the Halo effect and neither are the Endless.

[@jakespacepiratee3740]

@@rbo7 no, the Primordial said Humanity will be tested. They are untested candidates. The Xalanyn are connected to Living Time and this is big if you read what the Forerunners thought of Living Time: “The Forerunners considered themselves to be only a stage in the stewardship of Living Time, with only a temporary place in the Mantle before *another civilization* that would reclaim their place as stewards of the galaxy.”

[@MattyGears1583]

Precursors: Gods of creation Flood: God of destruction

[@boshua1220]

I’m actually really happy that your theory about the flood/precursors turned out to be true. It was my favorite Halo theory I had ever heard so it basically being true now is just so cool.

[@chriswhite3692]

I used to regular a message board where people questioned the wisdom of the Forerunners keeping Flood specimens around when they were eradicated. That ignored that the Flood were an extra-galactic threat. The same way we keep deadly viruses around for study in case an outbreak occurs.

[@Apexassassin141]

So spark just screwed the other galaxy with bastion and the sample of 'Uncorupted' precursor DNA, we 're fucked

[@LtDavidB312]

This would retroactively salvage that narrative choice IMO. The notion of “oh these were good ones and they get to be good forever now because the bad ones are either gone or contained” was just so unrealistically idealistic and boring that I just hate it as it is presented.

[@kingmasterlord]

​@@LtDavidB312thats literally a description of our real world societal struggles rn

[@berilsevvalbekret772]

Where is this all precursors were bad coming from? It doesn't change the fact those two didn't become the flood shows precursors aren't unanimous.

[@kingmasterlord]

@@berilsevvalbekret772 the secret is some volunteered for the culling and became Flood, others wait to be fed.

[@mullerpotgieter]

​@@berilsevvalbekret772One would think they'd be smart enough to not put all their eggs in one basket. They've been at this for billions of years apparently. I doubt this was the first time a species came up with a Halo level solution

[@mattlang8419]

This brings a fascinating similarity to the Covenant and Forerunners... as the Covies misinterpreted the Great Journey and used it to assimilate cultures and wage war on humanity, so did the Forerunners and Cortana misunderstand the true purpose and gravity of the Mantle in their pursuit to subjugate life...

[@SharlineTheWitch]

"You will be food, nothing more"-Gravemind. (Halo 3)

[@yungo1rst]

oh cool. i just took your word for it after viewing the previous video on this topic. i wonder how many cycles the floodcursors have done this.

[@mayazmahmud1740]

This theory aligns so much with mass effect reapers.. they wait until new life dominate the world and then come to kill everyone

[@chriswhite3692]

except on a far larger scale and far more deadly. The Flood are extra-galactic. Who knows how many galaxies they harvest.

[@mayazmahmud1740]

@@chriswhite3692 isnt flood only in milkyway galaxy?

[@chriswhite3692]

@@mayazmahmud1740 nope. Extragalactic. In fact, during the first human/Flood war, the Flood intentionally withdrew from the Milky Way. That made the Forerunners think humanity came up with a solution to it and preserved the human race for "Safekeeping".

[@Nathan-vt1jz]

Gravemind/Primordial: We creat life to consume it and all its experiences.” Master Chief: ‘Experience this, worm.’ Gravemind/Primordial: Personally experiences the “Finding Out” part of that old human saying. (My summary of a future Halo game, yet to be released)

[@Epyon-qr4lh]

This is F**king Amazing!!!! Keep up the great work!!!! And i love how you used the Harbinger ost!!!!! This is the best one yet!!!!!

[@zow8238]

You're very likely not looking at the comments for this anymore, but I'm gonna make this observation anyway, because it just hit me like a ton of bricks. This entire reveal of the Precursors and what their true purpose for intelligent life in the galaxy is puts the Gravemind's line at the end of The Covenant in Halo 3 into context. When Truth says he will become a God, Gravemind says "You will be food. Nothing more." Honestly. HONESTLY, It's such a small, insignificant detail from that game, but with all the information we know now, it makes that line 10,000 times more bone-chilling, because it wasn't just a taunt to Truth. It was a message for the entire galaxy about what the Flood, and by extension, the Precursors, have planned for them. All sentient life... *You will be food. Nothing more.*

[@5GentleGiants]

8:22 this is a thought that always lingered in the back of my mind. The concept of joined knowledge is good, but the execution and focus on power instead of unity is horrific.

[@berilsevvalbekret772]

Flood isn't the entirity of the Precursors. Those two on Path Katona were gentle. There was an actual live one saved a human's life by healing her from her incurable disease. Calling them all lovecraftian uncaring horrors is not the whole truth.

[@LewpyDrewpy714]

I remember that video. I think that was about the time I subbed to you. It's a theory that makes sense. We have the ability to create and the ability to absolutely earse what we create. There's something in that book Selintum, spelt wrong, that made me think of this idea too. I'm glad you are bringing this up again. The domain and the mantle of responsibility are artificial constructs. Apparently, it's time for them to be destroyed. To finish their circle.

[@Commander_Appo]

Honestly, this theory kinda fucks with me a bit. If there is a creator/creators in the real world, how do we know they aren’t like the Precursors in that way?

[@WigSplitters]

It wouldn't matter

[@damnmexican90]

Faith and Reason. The creators actions in relation to you, always reveal the creators intent.

[@wolffrdu6463]

that is interesting, i had a theory that say, since the flood is corrupted precursors, but not all precursors become flood, so they do not agree

[@soumyajyotimukherjee4752]

I always found the Mantle of Responsibility rather suss and extremely problematic

[@markricheard1870]

Harbinger seems to consider the Forerunners indeed as “very sus”

[@ccriztoff]

Using the word “problematic” is problematic

[@Gofaw]

The mantle never meant anything, it was always mumbo jumbo that 343 sold as being important at a universal scale. It's a non-concept that was never properly defined and we're expected to go "oooohh the mantle woaaah!!" and just roll with it

[@georgecisneros5281]

Eh. It’s pretty much just the Matrix of Leadership from Transformers..

[@SoranoGuardias]

The Mantle was meant to be borne by the race who would be arbiters of peace and prosperity. When the Forerunners took the Mantle from the Precursors, they lacked the means to keep peace except by force.

[@JohnPeacekeeper]

Plot twist: The Sangheili alongside Humanity and the Endless alongside the Forerunner remnants will be the wild card that helps make ensure that the Galaxy can resist the Precursors

[@PrideofErin__]

Is it just me that kind of sees parallels with the reapers of the mass effect universe? I know the reapers came into being and power a completely different way from the precursors but they allow civilizations to grow and flourish, using technology the reapers leave behind so they advance along paths they want them too, and then at their peak the reapers return and harvest them to store their essences forever in reaper form.

[@mav2553]

Back when I played halo 4 I remember it reminded me of the Mass Effect series. I thought of Shepard as a Reclaimer...and I forget the characters name but he was in one of the DLCs in mass effect, an ancient alien species with bionic powers that joined your team, I thought of that guy (alien) as a Forerunner. The similarities blew my mind, to the point where I thought chief was eventually going to get bionic powers like Commander Shepard! And when Bungie left Halo and made Destiny it seemed it was possibly on their minds and maybe 343 just fucked it up. After watching the first season of the new Halo tv show these theories resurfaced in my mind, with them using an artifact that chief was affected by. A lot wishful thinking here, but its fun to theorize. 😄

[@spartanjohn-1176]

😊

[@SpartanBrix]

dude. you didn’t have to put that spoiler in the thumbnail, I’m going to get the book in like two hours.

[@asiblingproduction]

All imperial right to rule declarations tend to be lies. Mandate of Heaven, Manifest Destiny, etc.

[@menace2898]

L

[@warriorshedge6772]

Im gonna do you

[@SpartanBrix]

@@warriorshedge6772 This ain’t Instagram Reels 🙏

[@SpartanBrix]

@@warriorshedge6772 This ain’t Instagram Reels 🙏

[@IsaacHarris]

This has always been my favorite fan theory. The Precursors started out as the Flood, developed and grew, and began seeding other galaxies with intelligent life. Even darker, were the Precursors uplifting other life forms just to give them more sentient biomatter to absorb? What if the Forerunners learned their secret and that's why the war between them began.

[@rossbroomfield5199]

I haven’t read the book but my interpretation would be that while the flood are precursors the precursors are not the flood

[@spartanx9293]

Your interpretation is correct

[@duck_entertainment]

So the exact same as it was?

[@rob776]

The Precursors aren't the Flood, anymore than Builders all being Faber.

[@dr.catherineelizabethhalse1820]

This! It has been pretty much confirmed that not all precursors were ideologically aligned. Some seeked the suffering as the sweetness of the universe, some more positive things.

[@chriswhite3692]

I think the Flood are like the harvesting wing of the Precursors. Recall that Forerunners visited the satellite galaxy where Precursors had intentionally de-evolved into mold on the side of a cliff face. Probably like humans retiring into the sticks to live off the land and relax.

[@SwiftGundam]

So basically the Reapers from Mass Effect and Brethren Moons from Dead Space. As a mecha individual, I even see comparisons with Majestic Prince.

[@chriswhite3692]

The Precursors = Flood takes on a whole different meaning when you read about the ones left in the satellite galaxy that did what Precursors tended to do- revert to more primitive forms. It makes it seem like The Flood are the harvesting form of the Precursors; one form of many.

[@Hnti4ever]

Just finished the book then immediately watched this video. It's crazy how this book fills in so much between 5 and infinite.

[@hesperosshamshael2873]

The primordial said the Mantle is a test? And that species always fail? Makes me wonder what the "pass" conditions are. Maybe something along the lines of evening out the great prosperity and growth the Mantle seems to encourage by following it up with a balance of destruction.

[@duck_entertainment]

Probably whoever kills em or figures out their plane

[@michaelshields6326]

I think it's to reject the entire notion of the mantle in the first place.

[@Mantis_Toboggan_TrashMan]

I also thought this. This has far greater horrifying possibilities. What is the true nature of the "living universe"? Where is all this information and biomass being sent?

[@duck_entertainment]

To themselves, they seem to think they’re so high and mighty but it seems in reality they’re just galactic a-holes

[@kevlofi]

I’m in awe. Maybe 343i can do something right after all.

[@chrisg5352]

Sheesh, I remember watching a video where you had brought up your theory and damn…this is honestly some heavy stuff. I’m looking forward to seeing how the series evolves once this information is discovered

[@patrickjames7907]

The reason I watch you is your entertaining voice obviously and your content. But even when you said that 3 years ago it was logical and easy to trust even just as a theory. Love you man glad to see you well 🔥

[@sierravortec2494]

I wasn’t going to read this but I think you’ve changed my mind. I like this twist.

[@whalehands]

This was the exact Halo lore i want to see explored.

[@alexlyster3459]

I'm not so sure about this. At least not entirely. I think the Flood and the Precursors are botht the same and different. To be specific, I don't think they Precursors were always the Flood. I think that particularly twisted and spiteful form they took did genuinely come about 10 million years ago after the Forerunner uprising, hiwever i do think that they had long performed the role of the Flood themselves, seeding and then culling civilisations that had failed their test of the mantle for a long long time. That reckoning had likely always been named the Flood in their minds. However the Flood as the Forerunners knew it, and as the Primordial correctly predicted would escape from their Halo contaiment facilities and eventually test humanity? That Flood is a dark twisted evolution of what the Precursors once were. No more joy, and love of life. No more grand buildings of Star Roads, or Neural physics achievements etc... Just pure distilled cruelty and malice. No more desire to seed life in the first place, only the later desire to ruin and corrupt it.

[@additivewolf]

So…the Librarian in Point of Light is about to reseed the Flood? 🤔🤨

[@An_Inconvenience]

Ive said it once ill say it again. The Didact is the most interesting and one of the most compelling characters in Halo Lore and its a travesty that most people remember him as just "oh that underwelming antagonist from 4"

[@InsomniacDoe]

So the Flood are biological version of Reapers from Mass Effect, or like the Brother Moons in Dead Space. Interesting.

[@spartanx9293]

slight issue the domain is a precursor creation and several precursors did not join the flood or actively opposed it your theory also doesn't explain the precursors of Path Kethona

[@joshuacollins9316]

Exactly.

[@xCrimsonxTidex]

This was my thinking as well, but what if the “compassionate” Precursors are just cultivating the galaxy for future consumption? Or if they disagree with the vengeful Precursors, the Flood, and don’t want biological consumption, what if it still is a consumption of other sorts to satisfy their need for “sweetness?” Maybe it’s a loooong war between two factions of Precursors between creation and consumption? The Gravemind certainly isn’t a good source for truth, for he’ll tell many half-truths to suit his end goal.

[@Noirangel797]

I've been away with work the past couple weeks and read Epitaph whilst away. I have to say, I find myself liking the Diadact as a character now!

[@kendellbedenfieldjr9936]

Wow that was deep. Thats deck stacking at its finest.

[@macrograms]

We're all flood food. I am Jack's complete lack of surprise.

[@Daniel-The-Researcher]

Maybe Im late to this, still, I would like to share my opinion on the matter: For starters, I will say that the idea you present on this video and on your previous theory is really interesting and terrifying, and from a certain point of view, everything lines up. However, I think that it is a very specific perspective, one that is not necessarily confirmed by Epitaph: While the words of the Gravemind could be interpreted as you present them, I wouldn’t say it is a confirmation, given that the words of the Gravemind could just reflect the original mindset of the Precursors regarding their authority to create and erase life at their will. I know there’s the line of “We are the Flood. There is no difference.” But that still works with the idea of the Flood being a corrupted version of the Precursors, specially with the words of the Gravemind himself in String 13 of Silentium: “Others became dust that could regenerate our past forms; time rendered this dust defective. It brought only disease and misery; but that was good, we saw the misery and found it good.” Implying that the Flood did not exist before the Precursor Purge. In the end, nice video! Just wanted to share my reasons why I disagree on certain things you said 👍🏻

[@jordavlopez5777]

Wait a minute, thats why the didact doesnt want humanity to ascend to the mantle, he wants to prevend the floods to return?

[@AnthonyFeiner]

I remember reading the conversation between the gravemind and didact and thinking...was it lying? Telling a half truth or distorting the truth? I'm not sure I take it's word as gospel. Perhaps it knew how to twist words to instill a sense of hopelessness in it's enemies so that they would feel futile in continuing their fight. I just don't know it it can be trusted completely.... the deeper lore was always fascinating to me because of how enigmatic certain aspects were. Maybe I just don't want to know the full truth as much as I think I do. I'll leave this quote between the didact and haruspis to end my thoughts: “If you could know all that transpired before,” the Didact asked, “would you?” “I do not believe ‘knowing all’ is necessary. Knowing diminishes the mysticism and godlike nature of the archive. Knowing eliminates sentient beings’ search for meaning, and without that, they will never progress.”

[@havtheroc]

As I was aware, the Precursors who thought the way the Gravemind does were in the minority.

[@jayburn00]

Makes the flood seem like better thought out reapers (mass effect). Perhaps this is even part of the precursor life cycle (and its a constant loop, precursor becomes flood assimilates the dominant species, becomes super graveminds, eventually turns back to precursor, starts the process all over again), similar to the brethren moons from dead space.

[@CrawfordPrime]

I read that in the book too and at first I couldn’t even comprehend it, I read it again and I asked is this true? I thought about it again and read it once more and I felt horror at the realization… that it was. It answered the question why would the Precursors make life anyway? This gave an answer, and from that answer we understand now the truth of the precursors, the flood, and the mantle. Those who cling to the mantle seem to dominate all life, making it subjects to those who claim it as an imperial piece that weakens the galaxy enough for the Flood to consume then start again. The Flood feed on more than flesh, they feed on knowledge, like the Domain stores knowledge the Precursors feed on that knowledge. Perhaps they went there simply for nourishment between harvests. To “pass” their test it seems one needs to reject the mantle and its promise of power but everyone fails because that promise of power is too enticing. I can see why now those humans killer themselves, it would be like believing God was benevolent and made humanity out of love only to hear the truth later that we’re all cattle and one day he’s gonna eat us. That is terrifying.

[@v02max75]

Oof....that's a heavy revelation. Better get that MJOLNIR armor done before it's too late, Installation00. We're gonna need it for the fight yet to come.

[@absentphantom9422]

Two takeaways. First, the Mantle and the Flood are sounding very similar. Collecting/assimilating the lived experiences of all sentient beings. Either they are mostly one and the same, or they are each other's foil. Second, the Precursors seeding life only to harvest it sounds like the Reapers from Mass Effect.

[@treyxyz]

“Emergent Lore” sounds like fan fiction

[@Troubleshooter11]

That seems kinda similar to the Reapers from Mass Effect. Let life grow along certain set parameters but with enough flexibility to encourage diversity, then harvest them. Rinse, repeat.

[@chicitizen]

This sounds like the ojective of the Reapers from Mass Effect. Using the Citadel and the Mass Relays to guide the races of the galaxy along the paths they desire, before preparing to be slaughtered and converted into a new Reaper.

[@clichenatureboy3168]

For years I've feared that your theory was the truth behind them both. This has my jaw on the floor. I'm in absolute shock.

[@threaders9411]

Maybe just maybe the precursors are split in 2 one group builders and cultivates and the other (the flood) feasts, and they both live outside the milky now And the flood have forced the other group to create and build life/society too a certain "sweet" spot then flood reappear and wipe the galaxy clean

[@thomasvillani5616]

I think the theory holds a lot of water when it comes to the question if the flood has been round a lot longer than we think. That they are the ultimate test. But im not completely sold on the precursors are “not corrupted” flood. Isnt there there recent lore that states that there are benevolent precursors and that a few escaped the galaxy and even some lived with forerunners in Pathgethona? Theres some holes there. But i definitely think that the milky way is probably surrounded by ancient flood invested galaxies

[@cr90captain89]

we have to remember that the flood is driven by the psychological need to spread misery, suffering & death. no two precursors are ever the same. the mantle & flood are tests to see if a species can make it past their hubris, pride & self righteousness. if a species holds themselves to the mantle with a holier than thou attitude, then they as a race are doomed.

[@hunterunknwn]

This should’ve been a game

[@user-MidwayDisc]

If anything 343 needs to hire the books author Kelly Gay as a lead writer on the next Halo game.

[@theblueheart2662]

You have no IDEA how much I ADORE that that theory was correct. Ever since I heard it I thought it was one of the most peak pieces of potential halo lore I'd ever heard. Retroactively made the flood much more interesting and horrific as well as the precursors. I never had much interest in the forerunner trilogy lore cuz from how it was explained to me it always seemed kinda mid. HOWEVER! THIS! We eatin good. So are the precursors I guess...

[@berilsevvalbekret772]

The theory is half correct. Flood is not ALL the precursors especially considering Primordial who is consumed by rage and hatred isn't the best most reliable nerrator.

[@W1ckedRcL]

Can't believe it's been 3 years since you dropped that video.

[@eliotharrell6061]

That video from 3 years ago is absolutely my favorite of yours and completely changed my outlook on the Halo universe, I'm incredibly happy to see it confirmed.

[@sergioizzaqt7707]

They somehow explained what the flood and precursors are and made them even more terrifying.

[@sargepent9815]

"You will be FOOD....nothing more" - Gravemind

[@georg2580]

from 10:05 onwards i got lost in indirect speech, which statements are said by whom? is it like this: (?) gravemind: "that which we create, we also destroy. didact: "just as you were set to destroy us, that is why we rose against you" gravemind: "forerunners, humans, ..... , beyond and before. we create, we delete, ... , our nature, our right,..." didact: "you breathe hypocricy" gravemind: "the firerunners never saw the mantle fir what it is, a test merely. humanity will be tested next, ...." is my understanding correct?

[@FredTuisila-yo1kf]

It's Dead Space Brethren Moons lifecycle happening all over again, it never ends.

[@redlantern6669]

The real test of the Mantle lies in being able to resist its temptation

[@brandonlorberau1406]

Ok but it’s a good idea to look back to a halo 3 quote from the gravemind through Cortana: “I’m a collection of lies, that’s all I am”. So how do we know that the gravemind isn’t lying in this book to place fear in the mind of the didact to corrupt him even more?

[@Pughhead]

Interesting theory, I still think the flood and precursors are different though. The Primordial was confirmed to be a corrupt and twisted form of the precursors, and him saying that they are the same just means that he was originally a precursor.

[@malachiclark1896]

Ya know I’m in the middle of this book and your title is enough of a spoiler. So thanks for that

[@UniverseStrongestWarrior]

That’s crazy. This changes everything