The Mega-Queer Nordix Cosmos

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[@JonathanPederPedersen]

You know I’ve seen criticism saying thor cross dressing is making fun of femininity. But I’ve never interpreted it as such. That seems to be projecting the modern toxic masculine culture into the past. But even if that was true I think it can easily be reframed to be an uncomfortableness with being misgendered in general. Thor knows he is a man, even if he has lost his phallic symbol and has to endure a period of transgender misgendering in order to recover it. This seems like it can be empowering representation for trans-men instead of disparaging of trans women. And like with drag queens there is an element of play in the story telling that is meant to be fun and not disrespectful.

[@callap.-o.1316]

As a trans woman this is the reading I have of it as well when contextualizing it a modern context

[@katalinkiss120]

On Odins cross dressing - perhaps it involves the need for empathy. That is to put yourself in the place of another to experience life from their perspective enabling the individual to grow. We are all human beings first with both feminine and masculine traits that have been actively moulded and compartmentalised by society to serve its needs. Men for warfare/hard labour women for domestic servitude mainly. This constricts the true scope of our humanity as individuals and to contribute collectively to society by becoming fully conscious and individuated beings. We have been held back by this rigid defining of what is male and female behaviour that does not even have to involve sexual preference.

[@katalinkiss120]

Sorry I meant Thor

[@faramund9865]

Please stop your nonsense.

[@JonathanPederPedersen]

@@faramund9865 someone is triggered.

[@TheMexicanViking1]

Appreciate this so much. It’s a shame for plp to only believe one part of the practices and history rather than acknowledging and embracing it entirely.

[@InvincibleSummer7]

Love this! funny you mention the story of Thor getting his hammer stolen because throughout the poem Thor is still referred to by masculine pronouns even while in drag but loki who literally shapeshifts into a woman is referred to by feminine pronouns. Showing there is traditional understanding of Intersex/Transness. This and many other examples is why it's problematic to turn nordic culture into a hyper masculine power fantasy. I am grateful for you and other Norse content creators and educators sharing this important side of our history! Thank you Rune!

[@NordicAnimism]

thanks for this - and btw. I've heard this idea before, that Thor retains masculine pronouns, but I checked it and it is actually not correct. - The pronoun "she" hon/hun etc. is used referencing Thor as bride in two Oldnorse versions of Ϸrymskviða, two Faroese Ϸrymlur, one Norwegian -, two Swedish- and eight Danish ballad versions of narrative. In fact, a quick skimming of these sources dosen't give me any indication of the pronoun "he" in reference to the Thor Bride. Remarkably, all the eastnordic traditions retain Thor as a feminine "she" even after she has retrieved the hammer and is busy killing the jotnar. So, in those versions Thor actually remains "she" after having shed the bride dress and is killing Jotnar with her ( :-) ) hammer. The West Nordic Faroese and Icelandic traditions does make him a man after getting the hammer though. - Also consider the Hervör and Heidrik (iirc) where the protagonist (initially female identified) becomes a man at some point and is then referred to with masculine pronouns in the rest of the story

[@InvincibleSummer7]

@@NordicAnimism Oh right on! that aspect I never knew before, makes it even better that Thor himself had genderfluidity attributed to him. Thank you for letting me know!

[@mikahbee]

I hadn't connected Ulr and Skadi before, love that!! The Nerthus Njord connection is one of my favorite things as a nonbinary person. Regarding the odinish figure that is feminized, didn't he live as a woman for a time to learn seidr? Which as you say queers him anyway considering it's a "woman's" magic. Love pissing off Nazi pagans with that lol Eta I almost forgot but I also love how further folklore queering that happens when considering trolls. Armann Jakobsson has a good book that talks about it some in The Troll Inside You: Paranormal Activity in the Medieval North. I'm looking forward to diving into Halloway's book, thx for that rec Okay last edit, queer lens of history, art, religion, mythology, etc, just makes so much sense, makes room for everyone, and it's beautiful. Thank you for speaking about that part so passionately, it's refreshing to see outsiders to the queer experience still find value and love within it.

[@aliasalone5823]

Amazing video! Love the concept, it’s something rarely touched on because of fear of being harassed by Brosatru dudes. Absolutely awesome video! 🏳️‍🌈

[@Rossion64]

Brilliant exposition. Really interesting 🙏

[@vjeismann]

The anti-cancellment disclaimer at the beggining was funny! Unfortunetelly no matter how woke you are there always be someone “woker” than you.

[@NordicAnimism]

MOOOWAHHHAAHAAAAHAHHAAAAAA - none are woke'er than me. NOOONEE!!!! I am the wokest person, that I know. In fact.... "🎼I'm too woke for this shirt, too woke for my cab- to wookeee🎵🎶🎵" - in fact I am so woke that my universal preaching of how to be woke rests on a pretty hardcore criticism of standard forms of wokeness - see for yourself kzbin.info/www/bejne/d4eWnWavr8eGhKs

[@lkeds979]

Thank you for this and thank you for your enthusiasm in sharing your research and knowledge with the world; in particular your creative ability to make the culture of our ancestors accessible and relevant to is today 👏

[@avisfuriosa2189]

It's really about perspectives, isn't it. The lack of an eye is a lack of limitation as to what you can see, where a lack of hearing keeps you from believing hearsay and forces you to see for yourself. Having more than one gender gives you possibilities. You might want to learn Seidr as a woman because you already bring your own kettle, as it were. I might want to switch to male for different sorts of focus that I need for my own reasons (or to get listened to for once). Transcendence is a helluva trick that will really help with a lot of things, and many of the things mentioned as queer have transcendence in common. Over the rainbow and all 😉🌈🌪

[@TenguXx]

There was a video referenced at about 3:45 when talking about some forms of art, but it looks like the link is gone. Do you know what video that was?

[@TyrSkyFatherOfTheGods]

I feel the same way about the term "queer" as you do about "indigenous." My neighbours downstairs are, by their own description, straight and cisgender, and yet refer to themselves as "queer" because of their private consensual practices. This appropriation of the term risks minimising the actual oppression and marginalisation of 2SLGBT individuals.

[@Scar-jg4bn]

That and the fact that I grew up being called queer as a slur is why I detest that term. I don't fall fully in-line with the current "LGBTQQIP2SAA+" movement either, so I keep it simple and just label myself as gay.

[@mall1138]

Followed you as soon as I heard how respectfully you spoke on this topic.

[@yardsale09]

You get so many fucking cool points for mentioning the cyborg manfiesto in my book! Thank you for your content and insights.

[@markusnicklas4627]

recommendation: Óðinn: A Queer týr? A Study of Óðinn’s Function as a Queer Deity in Iron Age Scandinavia by Amy Jefford Franks, an MA Thesis

[@edj8008]

Snorre was making the stories paleteble for chistians and warlords

[@sunnyhibbits9818]

Amazing video, starting needed complex and relational conversations here! I loved the Queer White Raven flag moment 😂 so good!

[@HIsForHopper]

Loved the video. Learned a lot. Thank you. Also, is it possible that they're finding Thor's hammer with women because those women were married? Just a thought.

[@TheRedandWhit]

14:20 I think one also have to look critically at the source material. tor's displeasure of being a woman could be Christian bias(No offence to Christians). We will never truly know for sure. it is up to you, and your faith. HIL THOR🔨🔨🔨🔨

[@AlexStock187]

“Fundamentally Queer” is an oxymoron. Queer is a deviation from standard categories; if queer is the standard, then there are no inherent categories to deviate from. You could say something like “transcendence of categories is just as natural as the categories themselves”, but queerness requires categories to deviate from in the first place, so they would either have to be equally fundamental or the categories would be more fundamental, as the existence of categories is a necessary prerequisite for queerness.

[@NordicAnimism]

That is a (partly) valid point - missing an eye is predicated on there typically being two eyes in the first place. But that doesn't translate into a deity "missing an eye" not being a fundamental element in Nordic cosmology. Categories AND their transgression are BOTH fundamental parts of probably any human cosmology. Note also that my reading of this traditional element of queer doesn't imply disolving categories, (which would probably be the preferred position of contemporary queer empowerment ideology), only their transgression as fundamental.

[@Rossion64]

Tritia prakriti is a third nature in dharmic traditions. It is so wide, that it is not simply a combination of male and female , but rather 'both and neither'. It covers what would be considered 'queer' in modern secular terms, but since even divine beings can occasionally embrace it, it is a fundamental vector to all conditioned being (being that is not brahman as the absolute)

[@archangelcharlie]

this is beautiful. thank you for these wonderful perspectives.

[@chaselingaas]

Great video thank you!

[@vikinglonghairdediconichai3935]

Thanks for the video I appreciate it very much

[@cynthiadollar9163]

Thank you so much for this! I love instead of doing a list of who is.queer and how they're queer- ex Loki being gender-fluid because he switches in between genders and use pronouns for those genders- instead you talked about the binary and non-binary. That is something that is very important, even the queer Community does not talk about it enough! As a queer heathen one of the things that attracted me to heathenry what the fact that they do not seem to care about gender norms. For example most female deities are represents of the Moon and all the qualities that comes with the Moon. But in Heathenry it is a God that is of the Moon. My Generation in America has always pushed away the bonds of binary. So what if I'm a girl that likes the stereotypical things that boys are supposed to like? With a goddess being of the Sun, I fell some of the gender binary breaking. Which is also one of the reasons why I look up to Oshun. She is a moon Goddess but her colors and the things she'd likes and Adorn are all images of the Sun. She doesn't care what she's "supposed to do" and does what she likes. She is her own perfect balance.

[@the_Jollyface]

Can you share the image that should be at 8:05?

[@NordicAnimism]

yea - i just say that - Damn. Let me share it somehow..

[@frogwalkerworld3547]

Deplorably non queer!!!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@Sandppy]

I find it disingenuous when modern people jump through hoops to push modern ideas and concepts into the past. One can only come up with explanations through to much schooling, much the same way Christian scholars come up with stuff you can’t get from a plain reading to existing texts, known as eisegesis. And although you use the word queer properly, we all know that is not how it’s being taken so you are using word games to justify a claim a world view that our ancestors would have accepted as ok. What we chose to do today is up to us, but we are disingenuous when we force it on the past

[@jquartz9285]

Say there, buddy....the like button doesn't register when I hit it....isnt that de-monitization ? 🤷🤷🤷

[@KissingEmbers]

Gods gone wild!

[@KissingEmbers]

Odins under eye.

[@KissingEmbers]

Loki has loose lips that sinks ships.

[@KissingEmbers]

K I'm done!😆

[@RM-306]

Good work. Im playin a game on ps4 set in ancient greece.... theres lots of fruity stuff in it

[@batbite_]

Sorry mate, but English doesn't have gendered words like in Spanish so the x which is typically pronounced as e is a bit misplaced. But looking forward to the video :)

[@NordicAnimism]

I made up that word myself :-D Its an attempt at behing deft, clever and funny

[@mikahbee]

@@NordicAnimism years ago I made up the word goddex to encompass gods, goddesses, and those in between, I love the word you made

[@suesmith9665]

What the hell?

[@johnd5574]

This is so incredibly surface level, it's embarrassing.

[@cynthiadollar9163]

You have to start at the surface to get at what is underneath.

[@johnd5574]

@@cynthiadollar9163 This theory has nothing underneath. Legit academics in the field would laugh.

[@cynthiadollar9163]

@@johnd5574 Well it's a good thing I don't know them becouse it sounds like they're be very homophobic and forced people to to follow in lines of whatever their gender norms is. 😢 most people I have ever met that things like that or one of those that stereotype genders. Like if you don't look like Paul Bunyan you're not a man. And also being not a man is considered bad. That is a very sad life, always constantly worried about being valid.

[@johnd5574]

@@cynthiadollar9163 When academics disagree with a far-afield new theory, it doesn't usually mean that they are homophobic or locked into "gender norms". There are plenty of ways to examine the Norse myths for evidence of possible LGBT connections but here this theory wen't in a direction that takes a very surface level (reading a book by its cover) kind of way without any deeper source material evaluation. He even makes a point of totally avoiding the topic of "ergi" which would have served him far better than the bizarre interpretation of Thor being "trans" when the linguistics absolutely do not support that notion. Don't go looking for homophobia when I'm merely pointing out poor arguments with a lack of depth.

[@asgrim1513]

​@@johnd5574 please don't come with logic, some people really just wanna live in a bubble and listen to someone with 0 credibility saying ridiculous stuff like rune does in this video.

[@ct5465]

Surely this video, evidenced by the intro, is satire