The Menendez Brothers: Innocent or Guilty? (Reupload)

[@TheCasualCriminalist]

Get a 1 year supply of immune-supporting Vitamin D3K2 & 5 travel packs FREE with your first purchase! - drinkag1.com/tcc Thank you AG1 for the sponsorship!

[@danielsantiagourtado3430]

You guys are the Best 😊😊😊😊

[@Maven0666]

Disregard my last comment. Thanks for fixing it quickly!

[@beast667]

That stuff looks like it tastes of fresh dirt 😅

[@theOneOnlyTed]

New York Knickerbockers

[@Maven0666]

@@beast667 I think it looks like algae. Too green for me.

[@ThatWriterKevin]

Yay, the whole episode is up now! This is the second longest one I've written this far (the longest is coming out soon!) so I hope everybody enjoyed...you know, as much as you can enjoy horrible stories about murder and abuse. For everyone that was hear yesterday, 1:38:00 is about where we left off. And for anyone who gets the reference, one of the title cards was supposed to be Judge Weisberg Does Everything Twice Twice (Totally get why Simon assumed it was a typo) Also, apologies to Mark Jackson and his fans. I for some reason write Johnson the first time, despite looking directly at the card, then just referred back to the incorrect name I had written at the start.

[@NextEevolution]

Thanks as always Kevin. You're a legend, especially for baiting Simon to go on that baldness tangent.

[@anikajain571]

Of course we enjoy them Kevin, in our twisted way, many crime fanatics find these true stories somehow calming, soothing. Maybe it helps keep our moral compasses in check? Fantastic writing, as always, thank you, Kevin & team, ❤ from Australia 🇦🇺 . Ps I hope Simon is feeding you enough basement fungus so that you can keep writing these disturbing gems! 🍄 😉 👍

[@SpookyBur]

Thanks for keeping us updated and writing such bangers Kevin you’re the real MVP!

[@sourfrog]

Thank you for all the excellent work.

[@bigstevebigsteve1294]

Kevin you are a legend, I love your work. Please look into the home Invasion that took place in the 90’s in Oakley, Utah. Crazy story, look it up.

[@Lyyysa]

I remember my mom stood very firm on the boys being abused.Mostly because my uncle was in prison with Eric for a time and said he believed his side of things and that he was a really nice kid.

[@JuGrey]

I believe the parents taught those boys to never take responsibility to pay their way out of trouble and abused them as well. Sadly is it any wonder their sons shot them!!!???? Geez as Simon says don’t F up your kids!!!

[@crystalrose7921]

My husband went to school with the boys. He said the family was sick, and he couldnt stand stand being near the father, that he was creepy and very touchy....and he is still so very sad that the boys were convicted, he knows those boys were physically and mentally abused. It is such a sad thing that boys and men are to this day not considered TRULY sex abuse victims.

[@helldog63]

Stop lying. Mendez brothers are spoiled. They wanted to live a rich and Lavish life style. They murdered their parents.

[@KawaiiKasai]

​@@helldog63 Wtf is wrong with you?

[@One.DeSanctis.]

People who work with and advocate on behalf of childhood victims of SA know better. Ignorant people do not want to hear these uncomfortable truths. If you don't know, it isn't real. Right? Denial.

[@overworkedcna412]

I'll be totally honest, I had only ever heard the "rich kids murder parents for money" angle and so I thought they were totally guilty, but hearing about this changes everything for me. Let's face it -- if this were a young girl who was captured and held hostage for years being abused, then one day manages to break free and kill her abuser, she'd be lauded as a hero. They should be released with time served. I do not in any way feel that they'd be a threat to the general public.

[@pearcat08]

​​@@overworkedcna412While I agree that someone who manages to break free and kill their abuser is a hero, I have seen numerous cases where a girl/woman did just that and was tried, convicted, and demonized by the public for doing so, not lauded as a hero. While I do not disagree that there is bias against seeing boys/men as victims of abuse and that cases of abuse against boys may be treated differently than those against girls, the fact is that all victims are more often than not treated as perpetrators when they take action to end the abuse. Race is also a determining factor: white women are more likely to be seen as heroic victims escaping abuse in these caes, while women of color are more likely to just be treated as murderers, no matter what horors they were subjected to and were trying to escape from.

[@andiward7068]

It is absolutely possible he decided to get Kitty pregnant 'all on his own'. She wouldn't divorce him, nonconsenual sex between spouses wasn't rape and abortion was off the table. Husbands were privy to their wives medical records at the time as well, so no hiding birth control, if she were even inclined to use it.

[@SEAZNDragon]

Jose maybe calculating but not that calculating. Seems like they were a young couple in love when they married and people were expected to marry young and have kids then. More likely Jose probably kept dragging her along promising baby sitters, au pairs, etc. as he climb the corporate ladder.

[@andiward7068]

@@SEAZNDragon if he wanted kids, she wouldn't have had a choice. She wanted her own career, he wanted a legacy. Tbs, they may have married *because* she was pregnant, or she was initially on board & changed her mind after the fact. Today there are a lot more options of OTC birth control that can be used surreptitiously if needed.

[@Bildgesmythe]

Yeah, the good old days. Let's not go back.

[@SEAZNDragon]

@@andiward7068 That's still assuming Kitty wanted an abortion at the time of the pregnancy. Sure it's well documented she hated her sons and blame them for her lack of a career, but that didn't seem to materialize until several years after the births and around the time she learn of Jose's affairs. I'm sure realizing you gave up a career for a man who cheated on you would put a damper on being a mom.

[@WouldntULikeToKnow.]

​@@Bildgesmythethe republicans in the US certainly want to go back to that. 🤮

[@darkermatter125.35]

On their comment of "being sociopaths" to the therapist, aside from accepting a label thrown at them by a therapist when they confess to murder: At least one was diagnosed with PTSD. When you have pretty severe PTSD, sometimes your empathy can, essentially, "switch off," in a way. To kids who have probably heard the term psychopath, then finds themself having periods of reduced empathy, mixed with anger that they do not see in other people... it isn't unreasonable to assume that they could have genuinely believed that. Then they had three years for that anger to somewhat resolve itself, leaving pain, shame, self hatred, isolation, ect., to fill a part of you that had only had hate and fear in it for most of your life.

[@RavingKats]

It would definitely be Complex PTSD given the repeated traumas throughout their entire childhood.

[@darkermatter125.35]

@@RavingKats agreed. I just didn't want to step outside of the given diagnosis and be yelled at lol

[@YourEverydaySheep]

The therapist Dr Oziel never mentioned the brothers saying anything about being sociopaths during his testimony. He simply said that he gave the brothers two examples of killings. One where a man comes home to find his wife cheating on him and so he shoots the wife in the heat of the moment. The other was a killing where there weren't as many feelings involved but it was to do with an ongoing issue. The brothers apparently chose the second option but during their testimony said that neither example matched what happened but the second one was closer as it was about an ongoing issue. All of this aside Dr Oziel was heavily discredited during the trial, proven to be lying about certain things and was recorded on tape admitting he was planning on blackmailing the brothers so for all we know nothing about sociopaths was ever discussed during the sessions. Also kind of a weird thing for a therapist to be bringing up with his patients seeing as sociopath is more of a pop culture term and is not any sort of actual medical diagnosis.

[@rivervan]

Yay the full video! Thank you Simon, Kevin, and editors! The way Jose raised his kids truly said everything- murder isn’t the answer, but he wasn’t a good father by any means.

[@ThatWriterKevin]

You're welcome!

[@JuGrey]

Thanks for video that tells it all and rivervan your comment is 👍👍 terrible father and mother not so great either!!!! Sad sad sad.

[@DemonEyes23]

Two happy divorced parents are definitely better than 2 unhappy parents that stay together.

[@lebby1688]

For sure! As a little kid I used to pray that my parents would get divorced.

[@wickednikki1987]

Absolutely. My parents have been married for 37 years and we’ve been trying to get our dad to leave our mom for years. Sometimes divorce is better and healthier.

[@D_III]

And here I am that grew up with 2 miserable divorced parents 😂

[@pattondurio]

That's only in cases where the parents let their unhappiness get in the way of being proper parents like where they're constantly fighting in front of the kids. In cases where a couple stays together for the kids civilly, it's almost always better for the children.

[@lebby1688]

@@pattondurioMy parents very rarely fought in front of me but I definitely still picked up on it. It actually taught me some really bad habits when it comes to relationships. I hide my emotions and don't say what I truly think because I'm trying to keep the peace. It's really unhealthy.

[@NJRDC]

Dad Simon gushing over his kid(s) is downright adorable.

[@filmsgilmore]

countless defense witnesses (including many family members) believe the brothers 100% and i think that says a lot.

[@josievaccaro]

Agreed 👍🏽

[@heathermallory2096]

Their case was also a political game. The L.A. DA's office needed a win because they had lost 4 high profile cases, 1 being OJ. So their 2nd trial had alot to do with politics. They didn't get a fair 2nd trial.

[@bandit5875]

@@heathermallory2096didn’t their trial predate OJ’s by a number of years?

[@Amv1992]

@@bandit5875they were in jail together and because the first trail was a hung jury and by the 2nd trail OJ was already free

[@jonschreiners5006]

There’s 26 million people in North Korea who believe Kim Jung Un doesn’t have a butthole. The number of people who believe something means nothing when assessing whether or not it’s true.

[@filmsgilmore]

there were also naked photos of them found from around at 6-8. from the chest down. found in an envelope with kitty’s handwriting on it. very dark and upsetting that they got life without parole.

[@ttenf3ct1ons86]

Thing is if you were abused and you hit 21, why plan to kill your parents and not go to the police, instead in their minds they are thinking “they hurt me so Ima kill them” plus it’s said by witnesses that they were trouble makers in school and were stealing stuff so they weren’t all pure like Kim Kardasian is making them to be

[@S.Blonde]

The mother’s handwriting affectionately wrote “Erik’s 6th Birthday Party”. Ignoring that and the time period the photos were taken is the same as refusing to see why the photos were not significant evidence to convince the entire juries of anything. The photos were shown to the juries three times. Photos like that were very common at that time period and many people like myself and some of the people on the juries had similar photos of themselves in family albums. Present day those photos are inappropriate but not 40 years ago.

[@ttenf3ct1ons86]

@@S.Blonde those photos were when they were young? If so then maybe it was just a funny pic then, but if it were at 14 then that’s where I’d say maybe it’s not good

[@S.Blonde]

@@ttenf3ct1ons86 The photos were of Erik at 6. The brothers’ cheerleaders make believe all sorts of factors that never took place at the trial. Lyle had no photos shown. It was only supposedly of Erik at 6 and the photos have no face. The defense showed these same photos 3 times to the juries at the first trial (twice during Erik’s testimony and at defense closing arguments. I believe Erik would have had a better outcome at the first trial if his attorney Leslie had co counsel. Her defense was entirely limited to her ideas and one legal strategy if imperfect self defense but other attorneys helping could have made her try other defense strategies as well she never thought of and made her aware that her defense strategy had serious flaws, lack of connection with the entirety of the people on the juries, and her courtroom behavior was upsetting the judge as well as annoying some people on the jury. If I was Erik’s attorney I would have pressed and pressed for a reasonable plea deal of a lesser murder charge that meant 20 years and possibility of parole. Manslaughter is NOT the ONLY legal alternative to first degree charges. While most of the defense evidence was subjective it was still enough for a savvy attorney to use to negotiate lesser charge. I think Leslie was too busy making name for herself with all those tv interviews she was doing and totally lacking the ability to read a room and read a jury

[@suzied4270]

No way. ​@@ttenf3ct1ons86

[@sophieon3196]

That ending was totally unexpected. I really do think the fact that they were abused makes a massive difference, they deserve a new trial. As a survivor of childhood physical and mental abuse, it really does mess with your head. It feels like living in a war zone and you’re constantly on edge. I would be lying if I had never considered ending the scumbag that abused me, at the time and every now and then since.

[@NJRDC]

Yeah, there was a period after my sexual assault where the idea of myself or someone else exacting revenge on my attacker made me feel more secure. I think it was sort of my mind trying to reassert a feeling of power.

[@WhydTheyChangeOurNames]

Big difference between thinking it and acting on it. I've also been through abuse and we constantly see it in Serial Killers as well. Murder is still murder, I don't think a new trial is necessary. They are still without a doubt guilty of murder. It's not like the context will change it to a lesser charge

[@firesighnavatar3283]

oh, I feel this. if u have to tell ur new wife "u can't touch my children to punish them" bc said wife is breaking wooden kitchen utensils u maybe have the wrong spouse. (and if u think the only kind of "real" scar is the kind u can physically see, u are maybe not dad of the year.) I never thought about ending her myself bc I was too afraid of the repercussions but I sure did fantasize about her grisly end for a long ass time. nowadays I'm completely apathetic toward her. I don't forgive her by any means, but she left me with crippling anxiety and depression. I just don't have the energy to give a damn about what happens to her one way or the other.

[@EmmaChihuahua81]

I disagree. I am a survivor myself of CSA, and grew up in the 80's when you got spanked at school and home. It was a horrible. And yes, I did and still do have fantasies about going back and righting the wrongs done to me. However, even if the abuse occurred, the brothers planned this murder. It was premeditated as evident by the fact that they bought two shotguns using false identification. Furthermore, they admit, and the evidence shows they fired first. They also reloaded their weapons and continued firing when their victims were clearly incapacitated. And most importantly they did these things as legal adults. Even if you want to say the first shots were because they feared for their lives (and there is zero evidence to substantiate that claim) the fact is they left the room where their parents lay dying, reloaded their shotguns and came back and resumed shooting them. I am not saying that the parents weren't bad people, but Kyle and Lyle's actions were premeditated murder and they bothe deserve life. The alleged abuse (some of which I think did occur, but I have my doubts as to the extent) offers enough mitigation that the needle isn't warranted.

[@WhydTheyChangeOurNames]

@EmmaChihuahua81 100% correct. People, Simon included here, do not understand the legal aspects at play here. Simon for example kept mentioning his "reasonable doubt" however, reasonable doubt is for determining if someone is innocent or guilty. That does not apply in this particular case as we already are aware of their guilt, this is a case to determine the severity OF that said guilt and thus reasonable doubt does not apply here. Secondly, people do not understand or grasp just how stringent the laws for self defense are. In the simplest terms, essentially, unless the person is armed, arming themselves, actively assaulting you, or approaching you with malicious intent (such as someone breaking into your home) then it likely does not constitute self defense. Via the facts provided from both court cases, I see no legal standing for a plea of self defense. Yes, there could well have been the father saying he would kill them but anyone who has gamed online has received 100s of these such threatening words and that does not provide grounds for self defense. So to recap, there is no case for self defense and reasonable doubt is nonapplicable here. So what does that leave us with? It leaves us with the degree to which they are guilty for taking their parents lives. Given the premeditated nature of the attack, it falls under 1st degree murder. Alright so we know they are guilty of 1st degree murder, so what's the trial ACTUALLY to determine? Very simple, the sentencing. The sentencing is the only thing in question here and they already were spared death row due to having no prior history of violent crime. The only argument I can see is the "no parole" part of their sentencing.

[@curtislindsey1736]

Wow, we really were just fed one side of the story here in America. This video totally changed my mind how I felt about this trial. I was around 15 when it was televised and everyone I knew thought they were completely guilty.

[@xenos_n.]

Same, to the point where the phrase "Menendez Brothers" sent a chill up your spine as cold blooded parent murderers. There was so much more to this than I knew.

[@WhydTheyChangeOurNames]

Well they are still completely guilty. They just have additional motive now

[@iulia.bianca.b]

​@@WhydTheyChangeOurNamesWell, their motive completely changes the outcome, doesn't it? They aren't complete cold blooded murderers. Just like a father killing their child's abuser isn't a completely frowned upon action.

[@WhydTheyChangeOurNames]

@iulia.bianca.b it does not in this case, this was not a crime of passion due to the abuse. This was a planned out premeditated murder and the absolute brutal nature of the attack and staging it as a mob hit also shows it wasn't just blind rage/passion. This was a thought out attack plain and simple.

[@YourEverydaySheep]

@@WhydTheyChangeOurNames Erik can be heard on their own confession tape while crying repeatedly saying "I had no choice, I had no choice. I would have taken any other choice". That doesn't sound super consistent with planned murder but it does line up with heat of passion and panic.

[@ChoSose]

I am from a household similar to theirs which made me not react to much until my heart sank to my stomach when I heard "was no longer in its aquarium" because I share a room with my rabbit who looks like the one Jen edited in except with blue eyes. I couldn't imagine that happening to him and to think that someone had the heart to bash in a soft fluffy and innocent being's skull and throw it into the garbage ー disgusting. Yet the father reminded me of my own.

[@WouldntULikeToKnow.]

That's terrible. I'm sorry. I hope you have many happy years with your bunny!

[@SirSpenace]

Just a note: Marital SA/r@pe was legal in the US until 1993 - so it's very possible that she had zero autonomy when it came to those kids.

[@MortanAMrk]

????? Excuse me what the fuck, was there seriously a way to rape without life improsenment?

[@bradlevantis913]

It’s amazing how things have changed. I was in high school in the 80’s. It was absolutely the belief that boys couldn’t be sexually abused. Really that stuck around right in to the 2000’s. I think the phrase “Over convicted” is spot on

[@PolaBeaver]

No, it wasn't.

[@S.Blonde]

That is very false. Lots of people my age remember local school teachers being arrested for SA of male and female students. It was not unbelievable or unfathomable. The problem with this case is that it is more than just SA because it involves two unarmed parents killed in their own home by their two adult sons. The SA accusations was part of their defense but the case does NOT start and end with SA accusations.

[@PolaBeaver]

@@S.Blonde yes, I was 10 when this happened, but I remember them coming to school and telling us not to be ashamed to talk to someone if you were touched the wrong way and all sorts of PSAs directed at kids on TV, plus my mom being paranoid about going around adults we don't know. Where do people get this bs?

[@Iris_1217]

You've also got Jose and Kitty's siblings coming out in support of the brothers as well. Very well researched and I'll be interested to see where this case goes in the future. I definitely hope they get a retrial, because the way the judge handled that second trial was ridiculous.

[@gummycats]

right?? the twins are real pieces of work, but people shouldn't be refused a fair trial just because we don't like them. the judge was absolutely overreaching and really did cut off most avenues for the jury to come to a not guilty verdict. it absolutely needs to be thrown out and retried

[@Iris_1217]

@@gummycats Yeah. With the evidence presented, I think there's a pretty compelling case for manslaughter due to imperfect self-defense. Also the prosecution saying that Lyle could have come up with the entire abuse angle because he actually really is gay and based it all off of his experiences having sex with men is... uh. Something. (They aren't twins by the way, Lyle is 2 years older. Though I can see how you'd get that impression - they look really similar on the thumbnail) Even leaving aside the murder they definitely aren't good people, but considering where they came from it's honestly kind of a mercy they focused their destructive impulses on the people who were directly responsible for at least some of how they ended up the way they did.

[@horrorhistory7342]

It was Erik they said that about.

[@horrorhistory7342]

I don’t think so, basically everyone who knows the brothers even back then talk about how sweet and kind they were. And they both do a lot of great stuff in the decades they’ve been in prison. Like Lyle running a support group for male survivors of sexual abuse or the two running their mural painting program. They’re also both happily married and Erik has a daughter who loves him.

[@EmmaChihuahua81]

I agree the abuse is a mitigating circumstance, but that is why they got life and not the death penalty. Even if abuse happened, even if was far more horrific that what it claimed, it doesn't change the facts of the case. Lyle and Erik murdered their parents. It was premeditated as established by the fact that the shotguns were purchased using false identification and from so far away. To claim self-defense (including imperfect self-defense) there are 4 requirements that must be met. The third requirements is about objectively reasonable use of force. Because they emptied both shotguns of rounds into their parents, left the room where they lay dead or dying, reloaded said shotguns (which hold a minimum of 6 rounds plus 1 in the chamber), went back into the room and continued firing they failed to meet the standard for self-defense. Also, in California law, because of the financial gain aspect of the crime they could have been charged with aggravated capital murder which is an automatic death sentence. They do not need a retrial because abused or not they wouldn't meet the legal standard for self-defense. The judge has the legal authority to instruct the jury on what evddence they can and cannot consid when deciding a case. By giving them life without parole they judge has already taken into account the mitigating factor of abuse because as I stated, California law is very clear that premeditated murder for financial gain is an automatic death penalty if found guilty.

[@AthenaisC]

First time I've ever felt the least bit of sympathy for the M Bros. The media really did a number on them back in the day.

[@ReddFoxx1562]

... I mean, most of this information was pretty readily available and talked about

[@Laylnizzl]

@@ReddFoxx1562but at that time, people didn’t face that men&boys could be victims of abuse as well. And in this new generation it’s much more talked about and acknowledged

[@Lucasp110]

​@@Laylnizzlyeah, the prosecutor literally said men cant be raped. Pretty nasty

[@beevonerd]

​@@LaylnizzlVictims become murderers all the time. Still makes them murderers.

[@Laylnizzl]

@@Lucasp110 extremely ignorant🤦🏽‍♀️

[@amemooress6291]

If an 8 year old tells you they're being sexually abused...idk that holds some weight. Especially against parents who were neglectful at the best of times and psychologically/physically abuse the rest of the time.

[@S.Blonde]

It should motivate more than just “holding some weight.” If an 8 year old cousin, or nephew, or even stranger child told me that I am immediately taking action to STOP the abuse and protect the child. As an adult we have a legal duty to take action and stop the abuse by confronting the alleged abuser, calling the police, calling child services, etc. The nonactions of that cousin or aunt subliminally tells me she did not believe the 8 year old Lyle. She even admitted regretting not believing Lyle during her informative testimony. When I was growing up there was a schoolmate that lived down the street in a single mother house and she told me and my mom the mother’s boyfriends were attacking her. My mom took immediate action and moved her in our house, called the police and asked for advice, and my parents confronted the mother and told her to her face they were protecting the girl from her and her boyfriends by moving her in our house so her mother got her affairs in order. Eventually the girl was able to move in with her grandmother and her mother lost custody. Im sorry but that is the right thing to do as an adult for any child that seeks your help.

[@droomzy]

Here's the rest! Thank goodness they noticed; still appreciate the eagerness to upload so quickly though. Y'all are a delight every video release despite the grim content

[@thelightaddict80k]

​@shawnstafford7809 it was missing the last 30mins or so

[@thelightaddict80k]

@shawnstafford7809 Simon is really good at following youtube guidelines. I wish he had an unhinged channel. That would be a hoot.

[@wendyrichards7458]

I think this episode exemplifies the rule "Don't screw up your kids " More than any other CC so far .Such an incredibly dark ,strange and very,very disturbed family .Those boys were always going to be a mess in one way or another, despite all the privilege and opportunity .

[@pamelamays4186]

Simon, it's nice to hear sweet anecdotes about your kids during intense CasCrim episodes.

[@kevinfoster1138]

As of Dec 1st 2023 they still have not gotten a retrial or reduced sentence. Their lawyer is working on it.

[@kailoveskitties]

Thank you, I was hoping someone would mention it. I did some googling but couldn’t find anything recent

[@smooshiebear80]

@@kailoveskittiesSame here. The one article I found gave a date in November that the decision needed to have been made by. Does that mean it won’t happen?

[@ewoodley82]

As of March 31st 2024, still no news on a new trial or resentencing

[@spacejasontodd]

As of July 20th 2024, still no news on the retrial.

[@Grumplebumple]

It is September 15th, 2024 and still no news

[@ignitionfrn2223]

1:35 - Mid roll ads 2:50 - Back to the video 5:35 - Chapter 1 - Coming to america 12:50 - Chapter 2 - Hello kitty 21:25 - Chapter 3 - A meteoric rise 34:05 - Chapter 4 - Setting expectations 1:05:30 - Chapter 5 - A storm brewing 1:19:30 - Chapter 6 - The murders 1:28:55 - Chapter 7 - The spending spree 1:42:05 - Chapter 8 - A shocking confession 1:59:30 - Chapter 9 - Judge weisberg does everything twice 2:20:20 - Chapter 10 - A new challenger approaches 2:24:20 - Wrap up

[@SamaraAhTavares]

I thought I was going crazy when the episode went missing.

[@somejerkbag]

Last one ended abruptly in the middle of the story

[@smexualization]

Me too 😂 I was mid watching when it was taken down and thought I was losing my mind!

[@thefisherking78]

Me too, I was finally about to listen when it went unavailable and I was about to start throwing shh 😂

[@JODamaramu]

I thought I was crazy and imagined the video

[@stephanybrown3226]

Was confused when I was listening snd cut off suddenly. I thought youtube goofed, but the video cut early. Apparently with a missing hour! Thanks for the reupload! As for the alleged writers in the basement shhhh 🤫 or you may be next.

[@vin8889]

It’s uncanny how many parents treat their children similar to this and expect them to grow up and be normal functioning adults

[@GrievousReborn]

1:38:00 is around the time the original video cut off if you want to start from that point

[@just-give-me-a-handle-you]

Thank you so much

[@TCBastin]

You are awesome. Thanks!

[@liselface]

You have saved my sanity - thank you.

[@adamblyth9972]

Legend

[@1121sabre]

Thanks so much for this

[@hannahp1108]

So...having lived with an overbearing parent past the age of 18, Eric was probably put under incredible mental pressure by his parents to sign that consent form

[@lebby1688]

That's if he even knew what he was signing. I could picture it being just a simple "hey, now that your 18 we need you to sign these update forms." If it's not really explained to him coupled with dyslexia I'm sure he'd sign whatever was placed in front of him. Especially if he trusted the person handing them to him. If I'm being completely honest, I don't even read through the annual billing and HIPAA paperwork at my doctor's office each year. I just gloss over it and sign. If I was dyslexic I probably wouldn't even gloss over it, I'd just sign.

[@nootnoot338]

Really got a kick out of this opener as a magic player and toy collector. I heard those words and I was like "wow I can't wait for Simon to interrupt and say he has no idea what any of this is"

[@Boing2699]

Idk how anyone would think raising their children to be some of the most entitled assholes alive while also putting an insane amount of pressure on them would EVER end well

[@coreymartin6363]

Every time Simon talks about interactions with his wife and kids, it reminds me of the exact same thing happening with my wife and daughter.

[@pheenix135]

Same, Im a stepmum who never thought I'd have kids so it gives me an extra lil happy glow when I can relate to Simon's parenting tangents. Theyre a nice break from all the murder!

[@Lucasp110]

"who'd've thought having kids would be so nice!"

[@histrogeek]

As someone who grew up around Princeton (and even knew people who went to Princeton Day School), I can assure you that rich, mediocre students are common at Princeton. There are many bright people too, but if you have the cash, gentleman C's are definitely a thing.

[@leannenorman2194]

I was a child when this trial happened and always believed the boys were abused I remember watching Eric testify and it hit home with me because I was abused as a child, of course killing their parents isn't right but I hope they get a retrial and get out of prison because they have served enough time.

[@eileen_a_b]

I was a kid too when it happened and hearing their testimony rings so true. It is absolutely horrible how people laughed at the allegations at the time due to the public's disbelief that it could happen to a male.

[@iulia.bianca.b]

What hurt me the most, other than what happened to them as young children, is that their bond is incredible, and they were separated. Hope they can be reunited someday soon.

[@moondancer4660]

They were greedy little bastards. Retrial I think not😅 July without parole😊

[@Fortune-gx9bn]

​@@moondancer4660 💯

[@droomzy]

@@iulia.bianca.b they're in the same prison & share the same block now. I read about it a few years back & I double checked online to confirm. Now they probably see each other every day. Been reunited for about 5 years now :)

[@onlyalisaawilliams]

After watching this video, my entire opinion on this case has changed.. I was kid when this case was happening, but I remember hearing the adults around me saying “they didn’t believe the abuse allegations. As an adult I’ve seen a few documentaries on this case , and in 2023 I believe the brothers were abused.

[@leeannmcdermott8313]

It’s pretty common in the US to have locks on the bedroom and bathroom doors in your home.

[@fainitesbarley2245]

Odd. In the UK all bathrooms have locks but no bedrooms.

[@advena996]

The house I grew up in had locks, but nobody used them. The house I'm living in now has no locks on the bedrooms. Edit: US person here.

[@ruthrandall2451]

​@@fainitesbarley2245Nope. All bathroom doors do not have locks on them. I have never lived in a house that had a lock on the bathroom door. Or bedrooms for that matter.

[@fainitesbarley2245]

@@ruthrandall2451 Gosh. I’ve never come across one that didn’t!

[@whiteumbrella9344]

I am from the USA and yes I have always had a lock on my bedroom door. I have always used it too. When I was a kid and now as an adult. It just feels safer. How many times do you hear that someone breaks into your house/apartment? It happens and a locked bedroom door is one more barrier. It might also keep an abuser out of your room at night.

[@TNHawke]

Thank you for the re-upload! I vaguely recall the trial from the 90s and I remember the media marking them as guilty little spoiled shits. Now I find myself hoping they do get a new trial.

[@filmsgilmore]

nice video but want to point out: lyle never threatened to kill dr oziel (even dr oziel admits that) he just said that he *felt* threatened by lyle saying “good luck” as he was leaving. judalon smyth even said she didn’t find it a threat until dr oziel convinced her it was one.

[@iulia.bianca.b]

It still irks me to no end that Saturday Night Live mocked the brother's testimony of their abuse...! They made a skit mocking s*xual abuse. They're absolutely disgusting.

[@hannahp1108]

Oh my god I did not know that

[@smooshiebear80]

@@hannahp1108Me, either! It’s so disheartening to me to know how common it is for abuse victims to be criticized, not believed, etc.

[@iulia.bianca.b]

@@hannahp1108 It was back in the day, but they still have the clip up on KZbin. They're horrible. It's John Malkovich and Rob Schneider as the Menéndez brothers, crying and whining about wanting a pee break and being bratty... It's so not what happened in court. They were crying their hearts out remembering what was done to them. That was super genuine. I still can't wrap my head around how they weren't believed. There's still people saying they were lying, even nowadays.

[@asterope1604]

It's a joke dude. We all have a bit of dark humour. I make jokes about shit I don't believe all the time

[@GiraffeFlavored]

@@asterope1604A little dark humor with friends is not the same as one of the most popular shows in the country mocking sexual abuse. Especially that those boys got LIFE IN PRISON because people didn't believe them. You are insanely out of touch to be able to believe these things are equivalent. Also, punching down _always_ makes you a shitty person.

[@frankmckenneth9254]

Damn, I knew the video was long in the last upload, but having nearly an hour left in the story is insane.

[@Starborncathedral]

Exactly!

[@ThatWriterKevin]

Yup, there was a whole lot left out lol

[@antonkovalenko364]

Still guilty, but with severely extenuating circumstances that were not allowed in court.

[@thedrinkinggames9573]

I have APD, and man, i can tell you that it is ROUGH in school. Especially back in the 90's when i went to school. I had quite a few teachers who didn't understand that it was a problem even when I had the paperwork saying I had it. It's almost like someone throws a blanket on your head and no matter how hard you try, nothing sticks. Talking with someone who elaborates a lot can be really hard too, since it really goes in one ear and out the other, and i can only grasp a little bit. Of course I married into a family that doesn't stop talking, but they repeat their stories enough for me to get an idea of what happened 😂. They are also lovely people and understand when i space out a bit. I have to rewind these videos many times sometimes and subtitles help greatly. I actually also have dislexia, but since I've always enjoyed reading (I can actually remember what i read much better), i have much less difficulty with that. Numbers can be a nightmare though. And my spelling is atrocious, thank goodness for autocorrect. I think that I'm lucky with the dislexia, I know others who have it much worse. My biggest problem is not being able to express myself because I can't spell my large vocabulary.

[@RNjedi]

Thank you so much for reuploading!! Great job team CC! Simon, Kevin and Robert!! 😊

[@sassymummaof2]

You know it's getting good when you get a "LET'S GO" from Simon. Glad this one is back. I got half way, had to go about my day, came back and it was gone, was getting really interesting (never heard of this case) now to top up my coffee and pick up where I left off.

[@actuallywaffles5267]

I love Simon's little stories about his kids. Like, in a sad story it's like someone showing you a picture of kittens to stop it from getting too dark. It's nice to just hear a happy story about good parenting and happy kids to remind us that what we're hearing in the true crime stories isn't all there is, and that most people are good people and most kids are just happy and loved. It's a breath of fresh air we all need from time to time.

[@sunshinehoward9649]

"it doesn't taste as green as it looks" That one is going to make me think for a few. 😁🤣

[@daftirishmarej1827]

Kevin, thanks so much for no grisly details. The idea was sufficient. Xx

[@ThatWriterKevin]

Yeah, I figured it was descript enough to get the point across already

[@amemooress6291]

Idk, Simon. Being born into wealth really gets you to places/opens doors that most people can't even dream of. The majority of people (at least in the U.S.) have limited or no class mobility, and semi-recent studies have found that (again, at least in the USA) "being born wealthy is a stronger predictor of adult success in the U.S. than academic excellence."

[@legaultrants]

I really hate that people think if they were girls they would have gotten acquitted. Girls and women go to prison for killing their abusers all the time, that's very common amongst women on death row.

[@babyramses5066]

Yeah :( it's kind of a false equivalency thing. Just like being rich actually made people hate the Menendez Bros more because they "had it easy"

[@JustinHoffler-qt4of]

Thats not really the same. They saying if they were girls ya wouldn’t have a hard time believing the abuse… they laughed at them. They made fun of them on tv. That would never happen to them if they were Jose’s daughters! Let’s be serious. If they Jose had naked pics of his daughters there would be no question about abuse! It would have been completely different if they were girls

[@KawaiiKasai]

These boys were abused by their parents and then revictimized by the system Imagine how many people were convicted because a judge didn't believe they were victims 😢

[@itarry4]

It seemed like more than this judge not believing them. Like he didn't care if it was true or not. The judges behaviour almost feels like he had an agenda from day one to see the brothers punished no matter what. Why? No idea but he made some very restrictive rulings and basically made it impossible, no matter what the defence put forward, for the brothers to get any type of mitigation.

[@Renastarsong]

God damn, that judge really did just. Completely fix the outcome in my very aggressive opinion. He just. Decided they weren’t allowed to use their defense at all. What the fuck. ‘Oh that last outcome was inconvenient let’s make sure that never happens again.’

[@darkermatter125.35]

100%, and not even the only one we have heard on this channel. But a very public trial was extremely biased by the judge recently, was joking around with the defendant, threw out a ton of the incriminating evidence, ect., and the guy walked.

[@EmmaChihuahua81]

It isn't like the judge just threw out the defense. In the American legal system the burden of proof for a claim of self defense is on the defense. The defense has to submit many pretrial motions and there are several hearings before the judge will allow someone to use self defense. There are 4 legal elements that have to be met. The third element is, "an objectively reasonable degree of force..." Lyle and Erik used pump action Mossberg 590's. Those hold 10 rounds plus one in the chamber. Not only did they use a total of 21 rounds on their parents, they left the room and reloaded firing possibly 21 more rounds. Reasonably degree of force was obliterated. Because self-defense wasn't in play neither could they use imperfect self-defense. Perhaps if they hadn't reloaded they could have used it, leaving, reloading, and returning negated it.

[@KentBurgess]

@@EmmaChihuahua81 There is some incorrect information. No version of the Mossberg 590 will hold 10+1 rounds. There is a model which will hold up to 9+1, but from trial photos, it is obvious that the shotguns used were the standard cylinder, which has a capacity of 6+1. Also, self defense laws vary wildly from state to state, and at the federal level. At the Federal level the burden is upon the prosecution to disprove self defense once it has been established by the defense (United States v. Thomas, 34 F.3d 44,47 (2d Cir. 1994).

[@EmmaChihuahua81]

@@KentBurgess If my information about the capacity was incorrect I apologize. I was under the impression they used the 10+1 model. However I do know the Mossberg 590 has a round rand from 6 to 20 rounds. My statement about the burden of proof for self defense being on the defense was in regards to them even being able to use it as a viable defensive strategy during trial. The judge has the authority to tell the defense that they aren't allowed to use self-defense. So what I meant was the defense team has the burden of proof to prove to the judge that their client is entitled to use self-defense (or in this case imperfect self-defense). If the defense proves to the judge that their case meets the requirements then during the trial the burden of proof shifts back to the prosecution.

[@jes7119]

​@@EmmaChihuahua81seems irrelevant though since the exact same judge allowed the exact same argument and evidence in the first trial but then decided to reject it in the second trial.

[@marahbaker8615]

Oh thank God! That abrupt ending was so upsetting the other day lol.... After hearing the ending, I'd like to add that judge not allowing their abuse to be used in court is absolutely disgraceful especially now with that absolutely jaw dropping letter. I don't know 100% what to think as far as what their sentence would be but I do know that it seems Jose and Kitty were both allegedly disgusting piles of trash

[@SeeJay804]

I was so into it too lol

[@Nesseight]

Yeah bro!

[@ThatWriterKevin]

I agree it's disgraceful, but it was sadly a different time and that type of defense was under heavy fire

[@tysondennis1016]

Yeah, the abrupt ending made the video feel incomplete

[@marahbaker8615]

​​@@ThatWriterKevinoh absolutely. I was a little kid in the 90s. When I was around 10, my great uncle (whom I had always felt weird around and avoided being alone with), groped my chest and I immediately got away and never went near him again. I didn't tell my mom because even at that young age, I just somehow knew my mother would either not believe me or silence me from ever speaking about it. Four years later I was 14, I decided to tell my mom as my great uncle had been dead for 2 years just because I wanted to talk about it. Do you know what my mother said? "Hush, that didn't happen." My childhood suspicions were confirmed. If I as a little girl in the 90s had suspicions I wouldn't be believed, I can 100% see why they may have felt that no one would believe them. What's really wild id that I told my grandma a few weeks later and she believed me because it turns out my great uncle had acted inappropriately toward my 16 year old female cousin while they were having a family pool party. So tgat means the family was aware great uncle was sketch, but because they worried about my great aunt, who he was also abusive to, they allowed him at family gatherings but didn't leave him alone with children. Things like that were just swept under the rug for decades. Unforgivable honestly

[@cremetangerine82]

There was a sketch on "SNL" that was so offensive. The brothers are mocked for their crying faces and claimed two other brothers did it. Although murder is deeply wrong, the trials should've taken the long-term abuse that they endured seriously.

[@canteventhough]

1:29:42 I learned so much about what grief was, when I saw my uncle smiling at his father's funeral. He looked into my eyes, smiled bigger than I'd ever seen it ever saw again, and burst into tears. So did I.

[@mygoldenwitch]

Simon talking about his family, especially his kids, always makes me feel like that Jeremy Renner heart eyes gif. "Dad, can you give me a cuddle? 🥺" "Yeah of course I can give you a cuddle, I love you so much!" "I love you so much too, Dad!" AHHH BE STILL MY HEART.

[@pamelamays4186]

Kevin, this video has shed a new light on the Menendez Brothers' case. In past videos I've watched about them, their family history was never discussed. Another job well done, Mister Kevin!👍🏾👌🏾

[@Mama-eu1ss]

I was a teen when this happened and completely believed Lyle and Eric were greedy psychopaths. I'm shocked to hear about how twisted and abusive Jose and Kitty were.

[@fancyultrafresh3264]

This was one of the best episodes of CC yet, bravo Kevin for weaving such an engaging story.

[@LunaOrgana]

Woot! Been waiting for the fixed version! 🤘🏼

[@ThatWriterKevin]

Hope you enjoy the conclusion!

[@randomtology]

Yay full video! Great episode as always guys! To answer the question about college grades in the US - honestly the norm here is that grades for college students aren't given to the parents. Just like in Europe, US college tends to come with the belief that it's the place for young adults to learn self-sufficiency. My parents never saw mine or my siblings' college grades (and we all went to different colleges). HOWEVER, with the student's permission, parents can request a college keep them in the loop about grades. Usually the cases I encountered that, the parents were the very controlling type that missed the whole "your kid needs to learn self-sufficiency" memo (though they usually used the argument of "i'm paying for it so it's my right to make sure they're living up to MY expectations" - which lots of unpack there). Can't say I've seen it lead to many happy parent-adult offspring relationships later down the line.

[@sinrtb]

If the molestation allegations and the threats from Jose are true I do not think the brothers should have to face any time at all. They have been shown all their lives that Jose can actually make crimes go away, Lyle stole 100k from someone and did not spend a single day in jail, why would he have any ANY confidence in the justice system. And they would have been correct, allegations of sexual assault from children was routinely completely ignored especially from known family members or those close to the family at least in the mid 80's. I may be just a bit jaded by our (United States) current and past justice system. I have no doubt that had the boys went a teacher that we would have never heard of the Menendez brother's and not for good reasons. .

[@HavianEla]

I agree with a LOT of this, and if they’d said murdering Kitty was likewise self defense (given her role in their abuse), I wouldn’t have any doubt at ALL in their innocence. Framing her slaughter as a “mercy killing” is what gives me SERIOUS pause. Regardless of her suffering with suicidal thoughts, that is NOT their choice to make, ending her life. I could’ve bought it being self defense if they just said as much, but mercy killing? I don’t buy into that BS.

[@horrorhistory7342]

The brothers didn’t claim it as a mercy killing though. The psychiatrist Dr Oziel did and they just went with whatever he said to not reveal the abuse. And there was a lot of issues with oziel that were heavily discussed at trial. Including many other psychiatrists who spent a lot of time with the brothers and analyzing oziel’s tape who don’t approve of how Oziel handled the whole thing and disagree with his assumptions. Their defense hasn’t changed, it was always imperfect self defense due the the traumatizing of being abused by both parents that they were afraid for their lives in that last week.

[@tfs203]

How many times have you been the defendant in a criminal trial to be "Jaded" on the system? I'm just curious?

[@nivision]

​@@tfs203pretty sure regular consumption of true crime alone could do that. because I'm the same.

[@kimberleywarren8679]

So all children who claim abuse can shoot their parents? What about wives who claim abuse? What about groups of people who feel abused?

[@YM-rk2nd]

I live alone in a big city and honestly I've noticed that upon suffering a great loss I might wind up wandering into buildings and shops I normally wouldn't if I was going about my normal day, and I have definitely bought cigarettes or weird things, and money and everything else loses its value for a few days. So a big potted plant might happen if my uncle dies for example

[@zotha]

I challenge anyone to listen to the testimony about the abuse and not believe that it happened. No one is that good an actor.

[@juliechurley2716]

100%

[@grindstone11]

Yay!! Was waiting for the re-upload

[@JesseJames83]

55:17 Simon, you are showing that you don't understand how promotion is guided by status. People in upper level management who were promoted didn't get there by hustling; they got there by cut throating

[@antonkovalenko364]

*"DON'T F@CK UP YOUR KIDS."*

[@unicornL]

Alan Dershowits writing a book called "The Abuse Excuse", when he was an attorney for OJ Simpson is just bizarre and ironic. Am I the only one? Or...?

[@Sadsenseii]

Thank you Simon & Kevin for your due diligence. I pray for a better understanding of the Menendez brother's situation & the struggle that many abused people's suffer at the hands of their care takers.

[@samanthaz2131]

Thanks Simon and Kevin! Good episode! Please do one on Darrell Brooks and Waukesha Christmas Parade Trial

[@ThatWriterKevin]

You're welcome!

[@downer4207]

You can really tell how much Simon loves his kids the way his eyes twinkle every time he speaks about them❤

[@brookelaughlin6603]

I grew up with a similar situation to the brothers, and being SAed by a parent builds a deep rage that never goes away and needs to be addressed for survivors because it will always be there and come out in trauma responses. My opinion on this situation is that these boys went through so many traumatic events, and had each other to reply on but it wasn’t enough. Having at least one safe adult to go to makes such a huge difference. One of the biggest protective factors that stop a traumatic experience to turn into PTSD is support and safe human connection. The rage towards their parents for expecting perfection and being hypocrites was never addressed in a safe space like therapy. Their parents failed them, the school system failed them, and the media failed them.

[@Xayver1082]

I fucking love when the writers add pop culture things like the 001/001 The One Ring and Simon is just so confused.

[@markmaronese4007]

I subscribe to the podcast, but wanted to thank you for the great job you did with the Jonestown and Menendez cases.

[@sdhariwillingham5448]

I've been tuning in for the last 3 years and can't recall seeing Simon have to reupload. The way the original stopped short left me feeling like getting to the last chapter of a good book to find the last chapter gone

[@leeneufeld4140]

When I was in middle school, a good friend got sent away "to stay with relatives" for a year. This was 60's speak for - she was pregnant, and her parents didn't want to deal with the social fallout. I'm guessing Kitty's stay in boarding school was similar.

[@twistanturnu529]

😅 Oh I love Kevin dropping a pokémon reference on poor fact boi hahahaaa

[@ThatWriterKevin]

No part of me thought he would have any idea what I was talking abotu lol

[@ardenalexa94]

@@ThatWriterKevin you did good with this one and so did Simon and I forget who the video editor is.

[@menendeztrials]

02:14:53 Erik’s jury was actually 6 men and 6 women, it was split by gender lines. Lyle’s jury was 7 women and 5 men and it wasn’t split by gender lines. The second trial jury was 8 men and 4 women. 02:15:33 There was no ruling that testimony about SA would not be aired. The entire first trial was televised on Court TV . No ruling kept parts of the first trial from the public. There was a lot of media coverage about the trial and the public knew there was testimony of SA. 02:18:10 There is a mix up with this alleged statement by Lyle partly because of something the prosecutor said which misled the media. The prosecution couldn’t use a recording of Lyle saying he fooled half the jury simply because they couldn’t find it and the woman who supposedly had it later admitted she was paid by a reporter to lie. (there’s a NY Post article titled: “She Says He Dunne Her Wrong”) The lead detective seized her tapes but there was nothing on them they could use. Maybe it got mixed up in the media with a different tape prosecutors had from another woman Lyle was taking to at the time, which they would have used if Lyle took the stand. (The tape was Lyle talking about Dr. Oziel and how he would make up a meeting where Oziel essentially tried to blackmail him.) Prosecutors also had 2 letters which indicated Lyle might have tried to suborn perjury, one was admitted despite Lyle not taking the stand and the other one wasn’t. 02:18:50 The second trial jury was given the option to vote manslaughter for the murder of the father but not the mother.

[@HiveTyrant25]

“You can’t just kill people.” Incredible philosophy from a person who (allegedly) wasn’t abused and threatened with murder for 20 years.

[@deadcard13]

Jeezus, they cut a full hour? Kevin deserves a bonus. And maybe a little more free time unsupervised outside.

[@nobody2655]

It's cute that Simon thinks the American dream is actually a thing. 😆

[@smooshiebear80]

And even more so, that Americans believe in it. I think it’s primarily foreigners that believe in it, only to have those dreams crushed (at least in recent decades.)

[@dndhat]

For those who want to continue from the cut version, it was cut off at the 1:35:00 mark

[@MoonlightSilverWolf]

Hell yeah, now I can finish my sewing project 😂😂 I love learning about crime while I create cute stuff lmao

[@jes7119]

We always say that murder isnt the answer, and that's of course true, but sometimes it might seem like the only option to somebody. For me, I can't help but feel that the following played a big role: 1.) Power imbalances are hard to break. For children it requires going into the adult world, finally being treated like an equal to others and having to navigate roadblocks for yourself. The Menendez brothers never experienced this. In particular, because they came from such a traditional wealthy family, they were moulded by expectations of protecting the family name and following in the family footsteps. Rich kids never seem to get to become fully autonomous individuals the way the rest of us do. Not unless they take a stand which probably results in them being cut off. (Yes, I know they're privileged too but it's not always without consequence.) 2.) They were never raised to take responsibility, to see others as equal, to know the value of money, to work for a living, or to understand how the real world works. So even if they could land a normal job, could they keep it? And could they afford to live off a normal wage? I mean, I could be wrong. I grew up very poor, in very different circumstances, but it does seem to me that moving out and cutting family and financial ties may have felt impossible to them. And this doesn't even touch on the abuse. As someone who experienced much milder physical and emotional abuse (not sexual), that was bad enough. I can't even imagine the fear, disgust, hate and stress these boys went though. They really were a tragedy waiting to happen.

[@haeronalda4136]

Agreed. I didn't realise before this video exactly how their upbringing had stunted their development but holy crap. Their mother did their homework because she thought it was quicker and easier to help them with it? How was that supposed to help them long-term? It's completely unfair that Jose and Kitty basically prevented them from learning necessary life skills but then blamed them for not being able to do stuff like get good grades. Of course they were failing everything: they had no idea how to study or work at anything!

[@jes7119]

@@haeronalda4136 completely agree! The parents are honestly so f*cking stupid for expecting the boys to excel when they taught them 0 life or academic skills. For so so many reasons, this is one of the worst examples of parenting I've ever heard of.

[@rodog9290]

Amazing work! Thanks a lot for the video!

[@EmmaChihuahua81]

Simone it isn't reasonable doubt, but it could be mitigating circumstances. They are guilty, they did shoot first, that fact has been established. So rather than getting the needle or life, their sentence could be reduced. Reasonable doubt means that there is a chance that someone else committed the crime.

[@YourEverydaySheep]

Reasonable doubt also applies here as to whether or not they planned to murder or planned to defend themselves. That's what each trial came down to.

[@babyramses5066]

Can reasonable doubt also apply to the reliability of testimony? Dr. Oziel for example who had a huge conflict of interest and was both sleeping with and manipulating at least one other witness who was also his patient. 😖

[@YourEverydaySheep]

@@babyramses5066 Technically yes when it comes to evaluating evidence (all testimony is evidence. It's just about how reliable you find the testimony to be). As you pointed out there were many reasons why there was doubt surrounding Oziel's testimony and you didn't even mention everything. In this case you'd have to compare the things which suggest Oziel's testimony is reliable and the things which suggest his testimony isn't reliable. Then you weigh both of them to come to an answer about whether you find his testimony credible or not. Dr Oziel was never called as a witness in the second trial which tells you a lot. He was heavily discredited during the first trial.

[@taylorbuckalew9005]

1:39:00 for the people that watched yesterday

[@JaviXT]

You're a real one

[@Professor_Smoak]

The Dr Fuji and MtG references were top-tier, Kevin.

[@lindathompson5884]

Simon, I have been a fan for as long as you have been doing casual crimianlist. I love, absolutely love, this new in-depth dive into these stories!

[@tranquility1967]

This was eye opening. A new trial is needed

[@nssmithtx1]

As per usual great work by you and your team, Fact Boy. Even if the sexual assault allegations against the parents are false, it's probably fair to say the brothers had difficult, depressing lives despite their privileged upbringings. I feel like us normies trudging away in the middle and lower classes tend to look at the wealthy and think they must not have a care in the world. For me this case serves as a reminder that we never really know what hardships others may be dealing with

[@paulabarbosa3914]

'That reasonable doubt I had, has just expanded to regular ass doubt' AMÉN!

[@kmalkiee1760]

Thanks for fixing the video! I wasted too much time at work today searching for the 2nd half.....

[@Doggy-B]

Thanks for the Re-up Simon and Co. Must've been a Ballache

[@alanbrott3159]

Thank you so much for the reupload!!! I was so sad when it cut off mid word on Simon talking.

[@kronictonic]

Opening a restaurant and paying $550,000 for it is the action of someone who's never worked in the restaurant industry. Especially in the 1980s with a limited bankroll. This is a great episode btw

[@Greg-TC]

Thank you for the fixed episode! We appreciate it fact boi and company. Hopefully yt doesn't nuke it for being a reupload

[@theguest4516]

I rarely miss a CC episode when it first comes out. Was busy, but it worked out,for once!!! Have a great weekend. Take care and have fun!!! 😎😄😎

[@shawnnewell4541]

Thank you for reuploading Simon. I was annoyed when it suddenly cut off yesterday.

[@rfrancoi]

Fantastic job as usual Sir.

[@thelightaddict80k]

Sweet! 🎉 now I can finish the episode. Thank you Simon. Awesome work as always.

[@curtislindsey1736]

In case you wondering as of the day the video came out there still isn't anymore news on a new trial.