The Mormon Church Confirmed The Book of Abraham - Mike Winger

[@buckweaver4584]

The Morman warm fuzzies equals truth.

[@DevonPhoenix]

it doesnt matter im just here for the cat

[@elitestockpicks8212]

The only way we could know if a book has truth is if something similar happened to us and we saw that "it is written" or if "it came to pass" - assuming we are trying to walk in the truth.

[@garymize9841]

Once again a hater that takes it out of context and twists it to meet their own narrative. That Church article on the historicity of the Book of Abraham and the papyri states: “Latter-day Saint and non-Latter-day Saint Egyptologists agree that the characters on the fragments do not match the translation given in the book of Abraham, though there is not unanimity, even among non-Latter-day Saint scholars, about the proper interpretation of the vignettes on these fragments”, meaning that those fragments are obviously not the papyri from which the Book of Abraham was translated so of course they don’t match, however, Joseph Smith had a lot more papyri than is currently in our position from which the translation was likely done: “Some have assumed that the hieroglyphs adjacent to and surrounding facsimile 1 must be a source for the text of the book of Abraham. But this claim rests on the assumption that a vignette and its adjacent text must be associated in meaning. In fact, it was not uncommon for ancient Egyptian vignettes to be placed some distance from their associated commentary”. Also: “It is likely futile to assess Joseph’s ability to translate papyri when we now have only a fraction of the papyri he had in his possession. Eyewitnesses spoke of “a long roll” or multiple “rolls” of papyrus.32 Since only fragments survive, it is likely that much of the papyri accessible to Joseph when he translated the book of Abraham is not among these fragments. The loss of a significant portion of the papyri means the relationship of the papyri to the published text cannot be settled conclusively by reference to the papyri”. Maybe next time you will get it right, but I doubt it. Doctrine and Covenants 121:33 33 How long can rolling waters remain impure? What power shall stay the heavens? As well might man stretch forth his puny arm to stop the Missouri river in its decreed course, or to turn it up stream, as to hinder the Almighty from pouring down knowledge from heaven upon the heads of the Latter-day Saints. You can try but you will not succeed. Many have come before you and many will follow but the work rolls forward and you and the others will waste away while the work continues to flourish unhindered.

[@tradehead]

kzbin.info/door/os1XIUqrIEdDU_P5_QyFLwvideos

[@thepicklecat]

Brudda you are being manipulated

[@kevinedward-jt2vs]

You really need to watch Dan Vogel go over the documents. Joseph lied, and deep down you know it.

[@thepicklecat]

@kevinedward-jt2vs w, if you look at it from an unbiased standpoint, it's very clear Joseph Smith fabricated the works for personal gain, even going as far as promising exaltation and salvation to a 14-year old girl if she married him.

[@orangemanbad]

But isn’t it proven because of the facsimiles? Honest question

[@RichardHolmes-ll8ii]

Paul Gregersen debunked the arrogant Egyptologist opinions against Joseph Smith by presenting proper interpretational understanding on translation.

[@tradehead]

Yes, he did. kzbin.info/door/os1XIUqrIEdDU_P5_QyFLwvideos

[@gundriver6439]

Yeah, like any discerning mind is going to "go along with" the mormon apologist's orthopraxy over established egyptian scholar's damning refutation of Joseph Smith's malarkey. Good luck with that...

[@RichardHolmes-ll8ii]

​@@gundriver6439Google Book of Abraham 15 Hebrew to Egyptian Paul Gregersen you tube. Paul clearly debunks your anti-Mormon cult.

[@RichardHolmes-ll8ii]

​@@gundriver6439Paul Gregersen clearly demonstrates how your anti-Mormon and Egyptian scholar friends were wrong.

[@RichardHolmes-ll8ii]

​@@gundriver6439Your anti-Mormon and Egyptian scholar friends were looking at this translation the wrong way. Get a clue.

[@richardholmes5676]

What is your response to the reality of Paul Gregersen debunking the arrogant Egyptologists?

[@mylesmarkson1686]

What is your response to *REALITY* repeatedly debunking Richard Holmes???

[@RichardHolmes-ll8ii]

​@@mylesmarkson1686Nice try.

[@tradehead]

kzbin.info/door/os1XIUqrIEdDU_P5_QyFLwvideos

[@RichardHolmes-ll8ii]

​@@mylesmarkson1686Could you expand on that?

[@mylesmarkson1686]

@@RichardHolmes-ll8ii Could you expand on the fact that this account is different from your last? Are you suffering from Multiple-Personality Disorder? How many of these accounts do you have?

[@RichardHolmes-ll8ii]

0:29 "they do not match" They were never supposed to match. This is how Paul Gregersen debunked the arrogant Egyptologist opinions against Joseph Smith. Smith was right.

[@eugenefaber7638]

Wow! you just told volumes about yourself. You couldn't believe in Christianity unless you have evidence. So much for faith. At least Mormons will pray and get a confirmation from the Holy Spirit as to the truthfullness of scripture, and it doesn't matter what the so called "evidence" says. You don't even have any business being a Christian at that rate, since you can't rely on the Holy Spirit.

[@clearstonewindows]

"On many particulars, the book of Abraham is consistent with historical knowledge about the ancient world.3 Some of this knowledge, which is discussed later in this essay, had not yet been discovered or was not well known in 1842."

[@redfightblue]

It seems like the things he got right he could have learned from publications and books of his time. Things he got wildly wrong weren't yet published or understood. This indicates he was using Earthly sources and concealing them.

[@clearstonewindows]

@@redfightblue Like Einstein's theory of relativity? I guess if he was a supper genius. I think the book of Enoch (the part of the book of mosses that talks about Enoch in the PofGP) is also very strong evidence on this. The Traditions of Enoch that are know and have come to light after Old Joe's time is huge. But God's not really interested in forcing us with facts to follow him. He will try our faith. Otherwise what is the point of life? He could have made worship robots from the dust of space. Best of luck to you in your growth journey.

[@SeekYHWHsface]

@@clearstonewindows what is faith biblically?

[@clearstonewindows]

@@SeekYHWHsface Hebrews 11 is a good place to start. Are you asking what is faith in Jesus Christ?

[@SeekYHWHsface]

@@clearstonewindows faith like the golden plates that can't be revised? Or what about the test of a true prophet in Deuteronomy 18:20-22? Like that kinda of faith in a false prophet jospeh smith

[@steveclark8538]

I don’t have a dog in the fight but the same bright light he shines on aspects of Mormonism...well many people do the exact same with orthodox Christianity and find it doesn’t stand up after close objective reasoning.

[@gregorywoolbright7099]

For example?

[@clearstonewindows]

Have you read the book of Abraham, it's awesome. Still lots of unknown about it, but the doctrine of the preexistence and the therapy of relatively before einstein are huge. The part in the middle where you mention that revelation isn't a thing... Really? Read the books first. The archaeologist also think Moses is made up. I didn't find out Moses's words were from God from the Archaeologist.

[@pw5565]

That is true. Bible historians and archeologists prove that Jews were polytheists before Josiah and that worship of Gods Wife was common practice before Josiah.

[@gilbertculloden87]

@@pw5565 It's not fair at all to say that archeologists have "proven" that polytheism was the norm before Josiah. Certainly some scholars believe that, but the evidence is very thin (and depends more on a "history of religions" presupposition than anything else). Regarding the idea that YHWH had a "wife," at most we have a 3 inscriptions that mention YHWH in combination with Asherah. It is still debated as to whether the "Asherah" in these inscriptions is the Canaanite goddess or merely the cultic pole that was often associated with her worship (keep in mind that this is 3 inscriptions out of the entirety of Iron Age excavation of the holy land). All that can be definitively said is that "some" Israelites were polytheistic and "some" appear to have associated YHWH with Asherah in some way. However, this is exactly what the Old Testament texts describe, a constant struggle between exclusive worship of YHWH and and syncretistic worship of multiple gods.

[@SeekYHWHsface]

So what about Jonah and after they tossed him into the ocean?

[@SeekYHWHsface]

As an lds member your god is actually satan

[@clearstonewindows]

We actually believe God has a wife or wives (unknown)

[@RichardHolmes-ll8ii]

One by the name of Paul Gregersen debunked the arrogant Egyptologist opinions against Joseph Smith.

[@tradehead]

kzbin.info/door/os1XIUqrIEdDU_P5_QyFLwvideos

[@4everseekingwisdom690]

Give me ten minutes of your time and you'll think the same about Christianity

[@tradehead]

kzbin.info/door/os1XIUqrIEdDU_P5_QyFLwvideos

[@UltimateSigmaGigaChad]

I'm listening

[@stevenpage763]

Hahah. . .this guy tries to discredit another religion. . .but instead totally discredits himself! Can't make this stuff up. What a Joke.

[@thelastgoonie6555]

kzbin.infojlCwCda4ZyI?si=VbC7H09Ni-ssEpOU A great rebuttal to Ward Radio's take of your videos, Cheers!

[@lukesteele4510]

Mike is wrong about the 1 pillar idea. Yes pray and seek revelation after you have studied it, and pondered it, so evidence plays a pivotal role in LDS faith at least for me. What I suspect is that he is unwilling to accept the evidence presented of which there is far more in the LDS faith than in any other denomination or religion. I couldn't be evangelical or any other denomination because of their lack of evidence and would probably be at least agnostic if not out right atheist without the evidence supporting the LDS Faith.

[@SeekYHWHsface]

As an lds member your god is actually satan

[@SeekYHWHsface]

As an lds member your god is actually satan

[@patrickambler749]

Huh? The whole foundation of the LDS is based on golden tablets that Joseph Smith wasn't allowed to keep. then you have some thing like this book of Abraham that turns out to be a fabrication. What evidence for the truth of what Joseph Smith taught are you talking about?

[@buckweaver4584]

The BOM is a fraud, just as the BOA is. Zero evidence to support either. Two frauds from the con man Joseph Smith. You’ve been conned.

[@МыколаНетребко]

01:54. Evidence doesn't matter, Mike. Matthew 24:34 proves Jesus was a false prophet. But that doesn't matter. Just believe in Jesus.

[@patrickambler749]

This "generation" refers to those that are Fathered by God through Jesus. It's not a reference to a modern understanding of the English word generation (like 30 something years). All Christians since Jesus are part of the same generation. Go study the Greek and read it in context

[@МыколаНетребко]

@@patrickambler749 Christian religion is built on taking Jewish Bible out of context. Out of Egypt I have called my son is not a prophecy about future travels of baby Jesus. But Christians twisted it. In the same way, you are twisting the meaning of the word “generation” which nowhere is used that way in Christian texts. Study Greek? Maybe you should do that since you value New Testament.

[@00carl46]

This generation referrers to the generation in context. After the tribulation and other things described in Matthew 24. So if suddenly these prophecies are fulfilled then we are that generation if not then it is still to come.

[@patrickambler749]

@@00carl46 I think the next verse after 34 provides the best context. The main topic was "when will the end of the world be?" As asked by Jesus disciples in verse 3. Matthew 24v34-35 NET [34] I tell you the truth, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. [35] Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. The Greek word that is translated into the English word "generation" in verse 34 is γενεά. γενεά primarily means "those who are fathered," or more simply "a family." Those who have been generated. So the correlation between the family that will not pass away and Jesus words which won't pass away seems, in my evaluation, to refer to those who are fathered by God and carry his words. The end will come before there are no more Christians alive who carry the words of Jesus. There is no break in the γενεά from the time of Jesus's disciples until now.

[@ericchase5045]

@@patrickambler749basically it’s the never ending prophesy. BS.

[@CadillacBunner]

IMO, People don't join churches because of their doctrine. They join because of the good people they meet. Another great video!

[@lukesteele4510]

I wonder if the actual reason Mike can't be LDS is because they wont pay him to preach and might not even choose him to be a congregational let alone general leader thus not supporting his ego. I have listened to his rants about many different people who claim to believe and do the work of God and his arguments often seem flimsy and self serving to me.

[@SeekYHWHsface]

Are you born again?

[@lukesteele4510]

@@SeekYHWHsface Based on the evangeilical definition of what born again is as I understand it meaning confessing Christ then yes I am, even going so far as to be baptized publically among other covenants which demonstrate that confession of faith not just say it. I am neither protestant, evangelical, or catholic, not do I view non denominational as true religion. If you are Christian then commit to which denomination you feel has the correct doctrine, and defend it and all its doctrines.

[@SeekYHWHsface]

@@lukesteele4510 as an lds member your god is actually satan

[@frankiepeters5434]

The whole Mormon Church is built on a con man who dug up a lost part of the Bible or New Testament right? From all I have read it is ridiculous that people could believe this. I do pray for all lost souls and will continue to do.

[@adamjett7947]

@@lukesteele4510 are you a member of the LDS church? If so, you are not born again by any evangelical understanding. The Jesus of the gospels and the Jesus of Joseph Smith are wholly incompatible, and Paul warned the first-century believers to be wary of other Jesuses and other gospels.