The most ADVANCED aero testing system in the world?

[@mateusbittencourtmendes2684]

Happy to be a partner on that with amazing guys and athlets like you, Kristian and Gustav!!

[@meatmotorendurance]

This is crazy cool. Beard vs. no beard next test.

[@log_it8282]

Measuring cdA indoor is pretty straight forward und devices are already on the market. However outdoors that won't be easy because you actually need the full velocity vector of your apparent wind +(your cdA varies with yaw) + an actual estimate on the turbulence . That's not something a single component pitot tube is capable of and that's why sensors like notio or airopod won't give you a reliable real time cdA. Multi-component sensors (AoA, or ultrasonic ones) are available but one has to think of a good way to scale them down for implementation.

[@thecouchman2112]

Hey log_it, why do you need the full velocity vector and turbulence estimate?

[@philipk4475]

According to my brief understanding, they're approaching it from a different angle. They're measuring drag force by having sensors on all contact points of your body to the bike. Saddle, handlebars, pedals.

[@log_it8282]

@@thecouchman2112 Like I mentioned, cdA is dependent on yaw so you need at least two components. If you want to have your estimate on turbulence you also need the vertical one. The turbulence is important since outdoors you will ride through a very dynamic vector field that isn't always laminar (in fact it isn't most times). If you ride a TT through a pure headwind on a course that's not fully exposed you will notice that there are areas where you suddenly slow down or accelerate again. That's not stuff you want to have in your real time cdA, so you need an estimate on what data is actually trustworthy.

[@log_it8282]

@@philipk4475 Yes you're right. We'll hopefully see in the next video what they're actually measuring.

[@thecouchman2112]

@@log_it8282 ah I see! That's assuming a fluid dynamics based approach to solving it though, which I agree would be very difficult for the reasons you've given. My understanding is that body rocket takes a different approach using force and energy.

[@stevenbalderstone709]

Potential application of real-time CDA to other industries: motor-sport, aviation etc?

[@FlyBendy]

Fascinating stuff Alex!!

[@db613]

So how did the different helmets compare poc versus HJC?

[@heikkisanelma6625]

This geeky stuff is fantastic, more to come i hope!

[@olleborner4604]

Cool! What’s the difference to notio/aeropod? Those provide real-time (+2s ish) CdA.

[@bodyrocket6844]

The big technical difference is that Body Rocket directly measures drag force, like a wind tunnel does. From a rider standpoint the biggest difference is ease of use. Direct force drag measurement removes a ton a variables that relegate existing devices to only being useful for testing in controlled environments, and even then they're prone to errors due to tyre pressure, tyre temperature, road surface, drive train cleanliness, gear choice, etc. Body Rocket isn't affected by any of those, and that makes for a much better experience and the possibility to measure all the time, on every ride. Just zero the BR system like a power meter and ride it.

[@olleborner4604]

@@bodyrocket6844 So you can’t measure Crr impact on CdA with your device? How is that an improvement? Will the user require all the different sensors seen in the video? That seems extremely impractical and limiting use to look-pedals is going to turn alot of people away.

[@ericd_br]

@@olleborner4604 In addition to directly measuring drag force Body Rocket takes all the same measurements as other systems so we’ll offer a ‘test mode’ that gives a Crr value, though it’s important to note that nobody is measuring Crr. It’s an estimate, as is CdA with other systems. We don’t see that as the main use case though. Because your body is 80%+ of all drag force and you’re constantly moving, whether that’s rocking your shoulders when putting down power, tilting your aero helmet up, or sliding forward on your saddle as you fatigue, being able to understand that all the time, and track your improvement over time is far more valuable. In the same way it would be strange to put a power meter on, use it for a day, and then take it off again we believe aerodynamic measurement is most powerful when you’re monitoring it continuously. The system Alex is riding is a prototype we’re currently using to work with elite athletes. The consumer product is considerably smaller and better integrated. You can see some imagery of it in our crowdfunding video that @Alex Dowsett has linked to in the description.

[@PaulOz]

Fascinating mate! Intrigued as to if this could work offroad too... with bike positions being even more variable and power more sporadic than on road.

[@museves]

Told my friend; cycling is gonna be a data sport, the next tech is not carbon bikes anymore, but data of an individual rider Good for you to get a head on the game👍👍👍

[@Fordworldrallyfan]

Hey more data is always better. But yeah, yet many more data points one will have now to pay attention to/be distracted by on training rides facing dangerous and aggressive drivers on busy roads, added to the already cumbersome; power, heart rate, speed/cadence, etc. 'metrics'. :( But, this could be a true game changer to TT riders, breakaway specialists, and pursuiters/team pursuiters/kilo riders on the track. :)

[@_powerrranger]

Is it similar in concept to the Aeropod? Like what is the endgame for ir?

[@martinstaveley6525]

This is why you should be offered a new contract, you're always looking for that extra edge.

[@Mr229357]

Good luck 😊👍🏻👍🏻

[@stuartmckenzie663]

Exciting. Can’t wait!

[@ezeekwheel]

That looks super interesting. Can’t wait to see more

[@BLITZKRIEG1]

haha wow, I can just picture some middle aged office worker watching this video and thinking, "I need this" 😂😂😂😂😅

[@IdolOracle]

I've got a question that you might be able to help answer (Do you do Q&A videos?) Why do Pro teams seem to forget about aerodynamics when climbing mountains? I know it's less important, but these guys are still surely going quickly enough for it to be a factor. The main example I'm thinking of, is how teams use up their Dom's on hilly Grand Tour stages. You always see a Dom at the front, emptying themselves until they blow up, and then the next one takes over. Surely, even at reduced speeds up steep hills, it would be better to rotate the team mates instead of using one at a time?

[@RudiDwiHartanto]

nope, surging actually generate more fatigue, rotating like this generate fatigue especially on long climb. Its about steady effort and not surging when team riding someone in front. Rotating just tire everyone out and create extra surge rather than steady watts.

[@ivailokaramanolev2160]

Pacing at the front takes a little more mental effort and attention to the road. Following someone consistently offloads a bit of mental effort, which adds up over the many hours they ride. Even small differences in effort also add up - you can drop a domestique if they can't keep up, but the GC contender is their most prized possession.

[@troycollett8540]

Climbing is more about power than aero

[@Fordworldrallyfan]

@@troycollett8540 Yes, and all but the very 'fast' climbs are well below a 20 MPH pace, where still air 'aero' has any real power sapping effect. Where I can see aero becoming a factor on climbs is when facing a severe 'block' (more like brick wall!) headwind, or a horrid cross-wind condition. ;)

[@adamcoatham]

Out of curiosity Alex, what was that max heart rate on Hayter’s wheel?!

[@AlexDowsettOfficial]

197bpm 👀

[@ml1186]

what a shame that this keyboard layout is now gone, these were awesome, no wonder the guy is holding on to that laptop :D

[@knutseth]

This is so cool

[@troycollett8540]

I can see Ollie from GCN being very interested

[@troycollett8540]

@@altern8tive he’s into aero

[@Matt-sw2hj]

Just gonna chuck this in here (it's relevant to the question posed in the previous video). Would love thoughts on it. Apologies for the long one... As someone who appreciates the tech (mainly the aero ngl), loves watching the sport and also riding by myself (I've never joined a club, competed or even been out on a group ride, despite doing lots of other sports and being mega competitive) I feel like my perspective might be a little different from the majority commenting, who understandably are 'in' the sport far more than I am. So from my point of view the most off-putting things, and reasons why I haven't got more involved in the sport are mainly based around the people in the sport, or at least my perspective of them, and I think other non-cyclists views as well!... So that's that cyclists are unwelcoming to those who know less than they do, maintain an endless list of unwritten rules and ways to make a dick of yourself without even knowing (I noticed in an Alex video recently that there's a 'right and wrong' way to have your sunglasses and helmet straps, why?! - who gives a shit), a bit of a middle aged luddite mentality (I mean some people still ignore aero and think disk brakes are crap for christ sake). I hope that's not too harsh but to someone who's young, loves sport, loves speed and loves competing I still have no real urge to take up time trialling, and if you can't convince people like me to do it, you've got a bit of a problem going forward. I don't want to moan and offer no solutions so here's what I would suggest. - Drop the unwritten rules, either get them written down or put them in the bin. - Drop the elitism. - As Alex suggested, definitely have road bike specific events - that is a significant barrier to entry for someone who wants to give it a try. Honestly if I had a TT bike, I would be more tempted to come along and try one. - Really focus on finding a good/appealing course, carriageways are sketchy however you dress them up, but so are super narrow lanes, I know it's tricky in the UK but it matters. You'll never ever get someone who is relatively new to the sport buying a TT bike to ride on a duel carriageway no matter how quiet it is. The speed differential surely makes even the pros a bit nervous occasionally, so think how that would be for someone fresh to the sport. I hope that's brought a tiny bit of value. If I think of anything else I'll add it in later. I'd like to finish by saying thanks for the content, I've been watching you since the movistar days, on tv and now here. You're a fantastic asset to the sport. I can see you setting up your own TT events in the future and with the way you do things there's no way they wouldn't be brilliant and I really hope that they can be the start of a resurgence in the TT scene. Sorry to go on for so long, I'm sure it could've been more concise. Really hope you get a contract for next season if you want one, you bloody deserve one, all the best, Matt Just some extra thoughts... Tracks would be a great place, I imagine there are some circuit TT's already? Are they prohibitively expensive to utilise? I'm just imaging how cool a Dowsett organised TT around Brands Hatch would be. I also think Zwift should make some of their major events have an outdoor element to them - I get the impression that lots found zwift over lockdown and will never leave their garage again if they're not given a zwift branded nudge to do so. The latest episode of the metaphysical milkshake podcast (the one on loneliness) gives some more macro context on why we are seeing declines also. Worth a listen.

[@garysmith70]

This mega expensive stuff could be then reason Time Trialing numbers are so low.

[@AlexDowsettOfficial]

A valid point, however I believe progress and innovation shouldn’t be restricted, but there should be a place for level playing field racing also, ie a road bike category. The good thing about this though is the long run, currently tunnel and track testing time is hideously expensive, we’re hoping the BR system can make aero testing more readily available and affordable to those that want it. Also the trickle down effect from this tech helping the everyday cyclist. I’m really hoping this tech helps the affordability problem within uk time trialling.

[@troycollett8540]

Once they develop the product the cost will come down a bit but I can see pro teams and national teams investing in this

[@gregspeakie4635]

That's like comparing the testing Lewis Hamilton does with Mercedes in F1 to a weekend warrior who does track days in a beaten up Mazda. Of course it's going to be too expensive for the average rider but it's not designed for them (yet)

[@philipk4475]

Power meters we also mega expensive when they first came out.

[@matthickman3417]

This makes loads of sense - I’d be interesting in how cycling economy links to this Alex - the research doesn’t support the idea of cycling economy yet however, there must be a link between internal efficiency, the environment and cda.

[@WhoIsJF]

yo bro I saw you on the finish line today in Lublin, Poland

[@glennrodgers6826]

Did you ever ride the old crit course before it got destroyed and did you ever ride against Lewis Atkins?

[@AlexDowsettOfficial]

Yes and yes. First ever road race was on there, a wild circuit!

[@AlexDowsettOfficial]

And a v talented rider

[@The_CrackedPot_Christian]

Please let the WHPRA and Mike Burrows in on this, if not already aware.

[@Richz2]

All this data is great especially for riding indoors in a controlled environment but we all ride outside. Very expensive as well

[@Apostroph418]

What? XD You test you position and equipment inside because it's way easier. But when they develop it to its final version you can do same on quiet road right? Take two or three helmets from local shop and test etc.

[@jonathanfong3033]

So curious what car did your dad get?

[@AlexDowsettOfficial]

An M3 comp, not the new shape though. It’s it’s wild, lowered, carbon everywhere etc

[@craigm5713]

Hell lets just get rid of the human and just race robots

[@stevengordon-head2420]

Data data, going the same way as F1 motorsport especially for costs🥴

[@gwhite7011]

Good analogy, soon it will be like people still going round the track in year 2000 F1 cars against year 2022 F1 cars... Still fast, but being lapped.

[@Grunge_Cycling]

Really old tech and will get cheaper eventually

[@AlexDowsettOfficial]

I responded to a comment above, down the road (pardon the pun) we’re hoping the BR system bridges the cost gap between no testing and tunnel/track testing. So not halting progress and innovation, but making it more readily available to more people at a lower cost

[@kstbox7749]

This editing gives me a headache 😣