The Murder Trial Of Brianna Ghey

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#trans #lgbt #politics

[@colt9836]

Re: Slenderman killing Iirc, the girl who murdered her friend or planned it, I cannot remember, was EXTREMELY mentally ill. She didn't use Slenderman to kill her friend, she GENUINELY believed she was being contacted by him to kill said friend. (Edit) oh shit, the victim lived. That's insane she survived over 30 stab wounds. I cannot IMAGINE the trauma she has suffered.

[@xXRickTrolledXx]

The girl lived after being stabbed roughly 30 times, and then stumbled her way out onto a main road from the woods at dusk.

[@XanderTuron]

Yeah, one of the girls suffered from severe childhood schizophrenia including vivid hallucinations (if I recall correctly, it basically went undiagnosed until after the stabbing happened). She legitimately believed that Slender Man was real because as far as she knew, she had actually seen Slender Man.

[@tc-tm1my]

She wasn't murdered. Both were committed to a mental health facility.

[@alexisvulfiaawenfern8112]

Schizophrenia is a hell of a disorder

[@bullski1455]

@@XanderTuronit was the other girl who believed in slender man. the one with schizophrenia was just going along with it.

[@azazel166]

They admit their intent to kill her. Life in prison.

[@TheRiiiight]

Murderers basically get out in 15 years with good behavior in the UK

[@azazel166]

Same here in Greece. Life in prison should be life in prison, not 15 years.

[@kellyvaters1689]

@@TheRiiiight Think he'll last 15 years? They'll lock him up like Brady. As for his girlfriend, she's going to end up in a counsel flat paying for her electricity by prepaid card and wondering why nobody answers the phone when she calls.

[@Dreagostini]

So you ignore that there is a difference and, if proven that those two actualy are psychopathic, that there won't be any easy way out before that and that they might end up in a closed facility factualy for live, yes? Even murder comes in different degrees of severness, linked to a mental state before, during and after the murder. If you or anyone ignore this, you're uneducated and just opinionated. Which makes you a moron. Just to showcase. Someone who murders a person for being gay, another because he was fired by the other and a 3rd case because someone made fun of your recently deceased mother. And now you tell me, that a hate crime, an act of revenge and emotional overreaction are in no way distinct to each other, because they all have the same result in this case. Therefore: Prison for life for all of them.

[@marsimane259]

@@azazel166 isnt it 25 here? (Also greek)

[@Tr1ckM1rr0r]

This is just vile but the dehumanizing from the killers by calling her an “it” was truly sickening

[@VannywiththeFanny]

They'll be the "its" in prison lmao. Those youngsters are fck'd. Like, literally.

[@colorbugoriginals4457]

Common from transphobes. I'm ambiguous and have been asked "what are you?" and called "it" in front of my face.

[@blackwatertv7018]

Signs of radicalization from social media, and right wing circle jerk communities.

[@milosniffer5293]

Maybe they thought she went by it/its pronouns

[@jonathanard7885]

Significantly less sickening than the brutal murder tbh

[@5UM0N3]

What utter psychopaths. There's no doubt transphobia, at least in part, motivated them to fixate on her. Whatever the charge, they'd better get the maximum penalty possible. Rest in peace, Brianna Ghey.

[@antifurryfoundation55]

Here’s hoping for the death penalty.

[@silviuvisan505]

​@@antifurryfoundation55I thought death penalty was barbaric. What happend to being progressive?

[@Alex-cq1zr]

@@silviuvisan505 Have you read their nickname? They are clearly anti-progressive

[@gregsmith8977]

@@antifurryfoundation55 first of all, why hope for the death penalty? second of all, what's with the username and pfp? why can't we just respect others?

[@matthewrowe-blackman4994]

@@antifurryfoundation55 UK doesn't have the death penalty the most severe penalty is life without parole

[@Prometheus1464]

... As a trans woman, uh I hope I don't die to cringe edge lords like this. Poor Brianna. Life in prison is the bare minimum these two freaks deserve, they want to kill and will kill again cause they think the concept of murder is enjoyable. It's gross and honestly a level a brain brokeness I don't think you can fix because everyone should already know murder is wrong its jut that some murder for their own benefit to further themselves which probably can be fixed, but these two did it for fun and the lols. They are far beyond gone mentally to learn empathy or to save them from psychopathic behavior.

[@nighteye4042]

@@footballdesk4417 Seriously?

[@digiwolfbyte8017]

​@@footballdesk4417[from far away] nice asspull!

[@5UM0N3]

​@@footballdesk4417 are you ok?

[@DaveFromVh1]

They did it for the “lols”?!?! Yikes, THAT is not giving hate-crime sweetie…

[@5UM0N3]

@@DaveFromVh1 the unstable are out in force today, it seems

[@Mae_Dastardly]

Honestly im less mad at these kids than i am at all the adult freaks who celebrated when this shit happened

[@MusIsntHere]

nah i think u should be more mad at the people who committed murder

[@MiorAkif]

@@MusIsntHere I'm mad at both

[@BaofuTheCanonicalPersonaHater]

murder is worse tf

[@dr_birb]

​@@MusIsntHerethe latter crate and encourage the former. Murderers commit one murderer before getting locked up forever. Right wingers, conservatives, facists do stochastic terrorism 24/7/365, their narratives pushing those attacks and murders to happen.

[@dr_birb]

​@@BaofuTheCanonicalPersonaHaterqueer targeted murders don't happen accidentally.

[@aaron4876]

I really hope they charge them as adults. They’ve charged 12 year olds as adults before so I don’t see why this should be any different

[@michaelmrozek604]

@@just_a_turtle_chadtouch grass dude

[@xXRickTrolledXx]

Thanks for boosting the algo, turtle.

[@Eden_Laika]

They will be charged as adults - 12 is the age of criminal responsibility in England (in Scotland it's 10, for some reason).

[@SorarikoMotone]

being progressive is also understanding that some shit is unacceptable to be happening and needs to be punished by full harshness of the law, not to mention that by laws of england, they can be tried as adults because they are of age of criminal responsibility. @@just_a_turtle_chad

[@yoyohayli]

​@@just_a_turtle_chadYes, justice is typically progressive.

[@benkylo8015]

RIP Brianna. Such a shitty thing to happen, I hope those freaks get life in prison but knowing my stupid ass country they probably won't.

[@georgeu6994]

If convicted, they are likely to be sentenced to detention at his majesty's pleasure (equivalent to life in prison, but not a whole life order), and will have a minimum tariff to serve (I estimate in the region of 13-20 years, depending upon the defendant's ages, and how the judge weighs all the factors).

[@MCKevin289]

As someone who teaches kids her age, stories like these always get to me. I hope wherever she is, she’s at peace now.

[@benkylo8015]

@@MCKevin289 Yeah, it's just so fucking senseless.

[@PipeGuy64Bit]

Well they are stupid enough to "protect their identities".

[@Stabby666]

They have to protect their identities during trial. They might reveal them after though.

[@TempusWasTaken]

Just an edited inclusion of a foreword here. My knowledge about "psychopathy" largely comes from secondary interpretations of individuals tending towards the extremes of lacking guilt and empathy. Much of my understanding of the issue comes from Thomas Erikson's books (which are themselves based on Robert Hare, something I did not originally think was a problem but which I now understand to be), which I recognise are pathetically limited in comparison to actual scientific (and personal) information about psychopathic behaviours. I do want to clarify, now that it has been said, that I do not think Anti-Personality Disorder is a singular diagnosis of one thing. I didn't explain the fact that it's a spectrum that can include many individuals and that was a mistake alongside my not clarifying the use of the term "psychopath" to mean those within this spectrum specifically lacking empathy and guilt to a severe degree. That's my mistake for not clarifying, especially when even in colloquialisms, the word isn't understood to mean the same thing between people (for example when I say psychopath in general conversation I don't intend it to mean someone who is inherently manipulative, but it tends to be interpreted to mean such). I should have also phrased it in a way which was not rhetorically implicit towards the idea that the two were "psychopathic" on a diagnostic level ("in my opinion" was buried under the words around it unintentionally but I know that's irrelevant with how it was read so I apologise for not making that clear). AMR Setsunai and FelisImpurrator seem to have better understanding on this than me. The original comment I made was also an emotional outpouring because of how they talked to each other about planning the murder. That just made me feel sick and my blood turn cold and I felt like I needed to state what I thought I knew on this immediately because I wanted to provide a little solace. I apologise for my mistakes, I shouldn't have commented with the little I know. Original Text (because it provides context to comments, and put below to make sure people will only read this after they've read the above clarification) The fact that these teenagers denied murder despite it being an open and shut case, and also threw each other under the bus to save their own skins, suggests very strongly, in my opinion, that they are legitimately psychopaths, as pathological lying (even when reality is obvious psychopaths will continue to lie) and selfishness to even those they've known for years, as well as abject inability to feel empathy, fear, anxiety and guilt (and as a result, chasing stimulation of any kind because that's the only gratification they can get in their life) are major pointers for someone being a psychopath - they demonstrated all of these traits.

[@AMR_Setsunai]

Actually am a "psychopath" (have Anti-Social Personality Disorder and Histrionic Personality Disorder), can confirm this info is decently accurate, though generally speaking it's inadvisable to anyone with basic maturity, planning skills, and social experience to just randomly and blatantly kill someone, in public, for existing. Especially if they aren't actively causing some kind of problem to you. I'm not shooting this down whatsoever, but they would definitely have to be pretty stupid and easily manipulated by ASPD standards.

[@Jartran72]

Psychopathy is not even a real thing diagnosed in modern psychology. There are many psychological disorders and personality disorderd, psychopathy is not a recognised one. Sociopathy, Narcisistic personality disorder, borderline disorder, anti social personality disorder etc.. Those are defined and diagnosed. And we should refrain from amateur diagnosing them by only these text messages and their actions. Their enviromment and past are incredibly important to actually diagnose them.

[@AMR_Setsunai]

@Jartran72 I personally don't think it's productive to fight people on the use of "psychopath" as a colloquialism for ASPD. At the very least it certainly doesn't bother me. As long as it's being used correctly and not as a catch all for "shitty manipulative person".

[@The__Furry_One]

​@Jartran72 I don't really think it matters too much when you're just talking amongst people, especially when it's incredibly obvious. But you are right if this was being discussed in a court room.

[@commissaryarrick9670]

Almost every criminal denies their crimes and throws other people under the bus . This is nothing unusual and not a sign of psychopathy . Stop playing armchair psychologist on KZbin

[@NovaQueenZoe]

I can’t bring myself to watch this one. Its too heartbreaking. Thank you for covering it man.

[@FabbrizioPlays]

I'm gonna try and power through but I expect to have to stop. Really don't have the stomach for it today.

[@goodtimepoke]

This is the MOST open and shut case I’ve ever seen, Jesus.

[@tilly704]

many in the community donated for Brianna funeral, she didn’t gonna had her name in her grave, so from the whole world we donated to give her some dignity. I cannot stop crying every time i heard about this:

[@sothisisbasicallyhow4696]

I hope she gets justice.

[@mmarshfairc3]

@@AgentSmith2Don’t know who you’re talking about

[@sothisisbasicallyhow4696]

@@AgentSmith2😮

[@YungFett]

​@@just_a_turtle_chadsad

[@Tr1ckM1rr0r]

The fact you have the thought that misgendering this dead woman who was stabbed to death because of hate similar to your hate is the reason she is dead right now

[@VannywiththeFanny]

​@@AgentSmith2How alone are you? Just know, you're alone because of you. Nobody else, just because of you.

[@fall-into-the-deep-blue]

Thank you, as always, for being a voice for our community 🩷 what happened to this girl is monstrous. And then people wonder why grade school left me with ptsd. Kids raised to hate turn into this.

[@IncestLoverW]

He was pretending to be a girl

[@thesilentcomposer1278]

Reading all the details has made me ill, I don’t know how kids can be so evil. I’ve not seen kids commit something so disgusting since the Jamie Bulger murder. I hope they never see the light of day again.

[@B.B.Digital_Forest]

I never thought I'd see or hear that name again. Sad times, indeed.

[@DonC876]

It's absolutely horrifying but at the same time we really need to focus on the society that these kids have been socialized in. U guess those two were really far off the scale, but Anti Trans Sentiment in Britain is a huge Problem in the whole country, media and poltics. This is the only way that we can protect future victims from enduring the same horrible fate.

[@sigmascrub]

​@@Based_Lord_Waifu... is this a meme?

[@Dr.Spatula]

You don't know how? Well he literally explained one of the ways. It's actually not that hard to understand

[@EnderProGaming]

​@@DonC876 I agree but regarding these specific kids there's not much you can do. They're clearly psychopathic for which there has yet to be found any remotely effective treatment.

[@SkyenNovaA]

Happy you're talking about this, this happened in my area and it was frightening, made me not wanna go outside for a week to ensure my safety.

[@Splooshua.]

Yeah it’s more saddening when it’s close where you live too

[@SkyenNovaA]

@@Based_Lord_Waifu idk what that means but that sounds very terminally online

[@reidfann]

​@RussianWaifu what's with the transphobic shit?

[@SkyenNovaA]

@@reidfann What does it even mean? I literally do not use the internet enough to understand it

[@MsScarletwings]

@@Based_Lord_Waifuyooo you speaking the language of the aliens from Attack on Mars

[@miketemple876]

Can I get some help from other Brits here? Ive been trawling through our news outlets and it feels to me that the UK press is really trying to avoid discussing the transphobia side of this. They are basically focusing on these kids obsession with serial killers and torture as if they would go for anyone at all.

[@thegreatBarbossa]

that's because they are doing that

[@CorwinFound]

I'm Canadian. But my understanding of UK media is that at best it both sides anything having to do with transphobia and at worst is actively and obviously transphobic. Acknowledgement that this is a transphobic hate crime would call into question their own culpability. And more generally, the world prefers it's most horrendous criminals to be motivated by monstrous and essentially incomprehensible reasons. Adding in motivations based on bigotry gets uncomfortable because that implies a broader level of guilt for all of society and in particular media and policy makers.

[@Lotan_]

@@CorwinFound Your understanding is simplistic and uninformed. Seriously, don't not let the media here draw you into this narrative they want to spin. The majority are either trans positive or neutral on the matter. It's why the Terfs and Tories are screeching about how supposedly popular and supported their stances are, despite all statistics pointing to the opposite. Our media pushes this myth because they're in bed with the Tories.

[@phoebegee54]

People are still quite resistant to recognising that it does exist. It's seen as common sense. Look at the PM's recent comments. I'd say he's pretty representative of how many think. I'm not saying that it was necessarily a particularly harmful thing to say but it was definitely a dog whistle. Keep in mind that up until recently trans people just weren't talked about in the UK really. It's felt like the T in LGBT was silent. It's always been there but it's been overlooked. I feel like we handle diversity of sexuality better than diversity of gender.

[@seanirby8838]

Holy...I remember the early news reports from when the murder happened and the two teens were arrested. But, I knew nothing about the details. There may not be words strong enough to express just how evil and vile this was, but some things just can't be adequately described.

[@Lambda_Ovine]

a handful of rich people: die in a submarine chat: "lmao lol poggers" vaush: jokes about giving murderous teenage edgelords the death penalty and suggests that the world would be better off with them dead chat: "L take"

[@EmmaSpAce111]

Luckily the slender man girls’ victim survived (barely) so at least there’s that

[@xXRickTrolledXx]

Stumbled 50 meters out of the woods onto a highway after getting stabbed in the torso and arms roughly 30ish times. An actual miracle she lived.

[@TheInSaNeTenno]

After watching this, I don’t blame anyone who wishes for the two to be sent to the gallows at this point.

[@akira1086]

Honestly was tempted to type that but thank you for saying it for me. If they got that outcome i wouldn't feel a hint of sympathy. Literal fucking hellspawn.

[@Nicebucket]

If she was a 83yr old white lady stabbed 28 times you’d be calling her a fascist and wished you could do it yourself - The lefty trans virtue signaling is a disgrace

[@FabbrizioPlays]

Like even if you have the glow-up of a lifetime as an adult, and realize what you did was wrong, try to make amends, whatever, I don't think you can ever bring enough value into the world to change the fact that you were the guy who did that.

[@thegreatBarbossa]

​@@NicebucketActually I think murder is always bad

[@silviuvisan505]

Very progressive

[@Potatotenkopf]

Chat writhing in absolute agony at having to acknowledge that some people are simply too broken to function with other humans is kinda rough.

[@blackwatertv7018]

There are genuinely shitty people out there who can’t change nor will ever change. I can respect people who think that people can change their opinions with new information but at a certain point, you need to be realistic and just accept that people are lost causes the psychopath who killed Brianna are great examples of lost causes.

[@dinodare1605]

This isn't a good message. I'd rather acknowledge a moral event horizon than this. At least with a moral event horizon you can say that the consequences of their actions are too vile to forgive even if they DO reform their ideology. But the idea that they can't be reformed at all isn't even falsifiable, and it's a bad mindset. They aren't beyond repair, they're just beyond being repaired to warrant forgiveness.

[@EnderProGaming]

Yeah 1 simple Google search will tell you psychopathy is widely considered untreatable. And in some cases psychopaths will even use their therapy sessions to practice their manipulation skills.

[@pioneershark2230]

What I think is incredibly stupid is vaush thinking he has the expertise to determine whether a person can or can't with armchair psychology.

[@Potatotenkopf]

@@pioneershark2230 I agree but I also don't think anyone is watching Vaush for PhD level psychological analysis and breakdown... hopefully.

[@rarehydra1179]

Most guilty of murder humans on earth.

[@x-xPhobia]

Its such a disgusting crime. It reminds me of those two University of Chicago students who were both like above genius level IQ and they were both like "lets murder someone and get away with" they didn't get awat with it lul.

[@quantumjourney1]

Just shows ‘geniuses’ perform very well in very specific ways, but can often be regular idiots about everything else

[@epicMicrowavve]

Rest in peace and power Brianna 💗🌻🌸💐🏳️‍⚧️

[@lloroshastar6347]

I went to a vigil in a Southern city in the UK for Brianna at the time. It was quite a big turn out and it was really moving, even some local politicians turned up. I know the perception of the UK is this strong anti-trans presence but I just want to reiterate that we are not a hive mind, yes us Brits are all brainwashed from a young age to fall for colonialist propaganda, to believe that Winston Churchill was just an all round nice guy, and to believe that there is a right way to do culture and a wrong way, but we are not all unreachable and many of us are in the process of being de-programmed. I have never been anti-trans as far as I can remember, I've certainly had a lot to learn though, but trust me when I say there were plenty of people devastated by this attack in the UK and the response of grief was national, albeit not shared by everyone.

[@akira1086]

Honestly at this point I agree with Vaush. People like this are few examples of people i don't think can be redeemed and for which no redemption can be had. I literally wouldn't care if they got the worst sentence possible beyond life in jail. Though idk what this had to do with ASPD, i feel it'd be something else. But yeah, this was clearly a hate crime, just cause they had other victims doesn't change that. R.I.P Brianna, she didn't deserve this, and may justice be served to avenge her.

[@quantumjourney1]

Just not true tbh. People think that because a crime was brutal that the person can’t be rehabilitated. I would wager that both had extremely abusive upbringings, which tend to cause them to be abusive to others due to a messed up understanding of morals. Even psychopaths can be taught not to kill. There are 100% ways to rehabilitate these two. I think people will be too revenge-motivated to ever let that happen though

[@RasmusVJS]

@@KentheCollector Yes, there is. Because people don't need to feel empathy to not murder. Thinking like that reminds me of the religious people who say atheist can't act morally. Most people born with Anti-Social Personality Disorder don't kill.

[@RasmusVJS]

@@KentheCollector On what basis? Is this just an arbitrary standard you've made up, or are you just uncomfortable with the idea?

[@RasmusVJS]

@@KentheCollector I mean, they weren't "born that way", their lack of empathy might be genetic, but their behavior was still influenced by their environment. And I mean, it's fair to doubt, but it's another to claim that it is impossible for them to change.

[@RasmusVJS]

@@KentheCollector I guess I can't stop you from being an essentialist, but I'd recommend not extending this line of thinking to other topics.

[@vidyagaems4063]

Some "people" are just unfixable. In some countries, cases like this are sent to mental health facility rather than prison just so that they can't be released after max prison sentence - it would be helpful here. It almost certainly wouldn't be socially beneficial to ever release them from confinement. It's a rare case where rightoids are right about punishment, even if for all the wrong reasons.

[@EnderProGaming]

Yeah an even remotely effective treatment to stuff like this has yet to be found. Some psychopaths will even use their therapy sessions to practice their manipulation skills. Kinda scary.

[@Kasiarzynka]

The "sent to mental health facility rather than prison so that they can't be released after max prison sentence" reminds me of what happened in Poland. In ye old Republic of Polish People (or whatever it's called in English, I'm talking Poland between 1945-1989ish), there was death penalty. Afaik the maximum non-death penalty was 25 years in prison. After the transition of power, executions were held, and a law was passed that banned them. Those sentences were then converted into the highest possible sentence at the time. 25 years in prison. Because politicians do what politicians know best: idiotic legislation. Instead of first introducing lifelong prison sentences and then delegalizing capital punishment, they ensured that some of the worst criminals would walk freely down the line. 25ish later, this stuff got really loud in media, with the most cited case being that of a man who lured into his apartment 4 different underaged boys and murdered them. I don't remember if there was, hmm, any inappropriate physical contact involved in that case. He was about to walk free in a couple of months and so the legislators woke up and basically made it that those people would have to undergo a psychiatric evaluation and if it's determined that they're not fit to be reintegrated into society, they'd be locked up in high security, mental health facilities. I think at least one was build just for them specifically.

[@backinabrit]

Jesus Christ. I been thinking about this poor girl ever since I heard about what happened. Poor baby, she was literally like 16 I think. My heart breaks for her parents

[@dragonicdoom3772]

These are always some of the saddest cases to me, not just because of the horrific murder but the fact that the two teens are likely beyond help. If they are diagnosed with psychopathy or something similar, there really isn't much that can be done besides locking them up so they can't pose a danger to others. Obviously doesn't justify their actions, just sucks that we don't have the ability to stop people from ending up like this or help them after the fact.

[@yayayayaysayayayayayaytyy]

well psychopathy, from my understanding, is about not feeling much when hurting someone, here it's more of they derive pleasure (pleasure doesn't have to be inherently "bed-relatd" ). I also don't think they're beyond redemption, it's just a severe lack of social norms and really little care about society. Like,, you don't need empathy in order to understand that people don't like it when they get stabbed.

[@piccolo917]

Here in the Netherlands these two would get 30 years and something we call “TBS with forced treatment”, which in this situation would result these two being in a psychiatric hospital for life. Basically, what they deserve.

[@georgeu6994]

There is no way I can see beyond a perverse verdict that those two aren't guilty. Even if they didn't intend to commit murder, which I think they did, they definitely intended to cause grievous bodily harm. Normally, murder carries a (mandatory) life sentence with a minimum tariff set by the judge (13-20, depending their ages, it is more for older offenders and it is particularly serious, such as because of discrimination), however due to their ages, they'll likely be detained at his majesty's pleasure if convicted (just a different way of calling almost the same thing). The key cut-off is generally 18 for age, but being over 20/21/27/30 can make it more lengthy for some ways of commission and seriousness, with the same for younger defendants (14/15/17). IANAL, this is England and Wales, Scotland has some differences that aren't relevant as the jurisdiction is England and Wales. Also, perverse verdicts are also known as jury nullification. It's just what we call it in the UK.

[@noaha6185]

Perverse verdict sounds way cooler

[@nichollle]

gonna be real i'm bipolar + some other stuff and i was literally like this at ages 17-18 before i started taking lithium. i had homicidal obsessive thoughts almost all the time. i'm good now but i could have killed someone at the time and LIKED having those thoughts. doesn't happen anymore (thank you my cocktail of five psychiatric medications)

[@ehenningsen]

I'm glad it's working out for you. I'm one that empathize for people who commit even the worst crimes (but will always side with justice) You deserve to not have those pervasive thoughts and I'm glad you are doing better ❤

[@anthonyrowland9072]

Good to know you actually got help and just didn't labeled "evil" one day...

[@ScarletAquaCrimson15]

I get if the prosecution didn't want to charge them with a hate crime in order to not weaken the murder case but it seems like a pretty open and shut hate crime considering the guy called Brianna "it."

[@RHLW]

Because a hate crime is one committed for the reason of "characteristic hate" (race/gender/whatever)... they had chosen to kill someone/anyone, and just wound up choosing her. The fact that they might have referred or acted towards her in some hateful way is one thing, but they didnt kill because of that. Entirely open and shut that it is not a hate crime.

[@rainkidwell2467]

​@@RHLWit was a hate crime, I don't care about technicalities here

[@RHLW]

@@rainkidwell2467 Unfortunately the very notion of a "hate crime" IS a technicality which separates them from "regular" crimes. And whether or not you care about such... the law (which defines hate crime to begin with) does. So sorry, but not a hate crime.

[@Tom-it6gi]

The Harry Potter lady is closer, in terms of character, to the killers, than she is to us.

[@jamesmaybrick2001]

Thats a pretty vile thing to say. Surely the fact that you just dehumanised someone in the way you did makes you the one much closer to scum....

[@Gnome-kc7pr]

True

[@chartsol5923]

"can we go beyond the death penalty?" Yes, mediaeval torture executions

[@CheshaGurimu]

👀 ... With horses tied to limbs?

[@gregsmith8977]

@@CheshaGurimu yes. or worse.

[@HeatherKilledGod]

@DarthMizinth Dude whats with the pfp

[@LaylaSpellwind]

I'm glad Brianna was loved, clearly to have a funeral like that. I just wish she was loved for longer. UK punishments are pretty light usually. Where I live has the highest repeat offender rate in the UK, along with some other nasty problems with drugs and alcohol. I've been beat up many times and SA'd and the perpetrators always got away with it. Recently beat up in my garden, it was recorded on video by a neighbour, they still got away with it. The UK is trash. I agree with Vaush about the death penalty. Typically I'm against it in all but the most extreme crimes. But murder? That's pretty extreme. It's extremely unlikely that they'll be rehabilitated. But ultimately, I prefer rehab, it's just unfortunate that prisons don't work on that.

[@alexanderboulton2123]

"I don't think they should be in prison; I just think they should go in this special enclosed space where all the worst people on Earth go!" Oh, so you're describing a prison. You want them to go to prison. Im glad we agree.

[@marilynmalone1381]

15 and 16 year olds are capable of committing horrific crimes, people need to stop undermining that.

[@Lotan_]

One of Britain's most infamous cases was perpetrated by two ten year olds. Childhood innocence is a myth.

[@somerandommen]

​@@Lotan_Jesus, I suppressed learning about that case. Thank you for reminding me... now I'll never forget it

[@Raccoonboi634]

This world needs more people like you Vaush

[@Raccoonboi634]

People really took the time out of their day to let me know about their irrelevant opinions when I honestly am just about to go and eat a sandwich 🤷‍♂️

[@Mae_Dastardly]

​@@Based_Lord_Waifuyo turtle is this a og russian waifu alt or did ya make another? If the former congratz on getting unbanned lmao

[@xXRickTrolledXx]

@Racoonboi Enjoy your Sammy, my be-thumbed friend.

[@Raccoonboi634]

@@xXRickTrolledXxcheers 👍

[@mshoney9301]

@@Based_Lord_Waifu Projecting

[@ih8myfriends]

I wonder if JKR understands and likes that she’s tacitly responsible.

[@Pazuzu4All]

I doubt she considers what effects her words have on the "commoners."

[@wheatleythebrick2276]

"I disavow (wink wink)"

[@rse3560]

I don’t think these two interesting individuals were closely following jk rowling’s political takes

[@ih8myfriends]

@@rse3560 you misunderstand me. I’m speculating wether or not JKR’s devaluation of trans life was responsible for the culture where these people felt detached from humanity enough that they could kill a person and not care because that person was trans.

[@ih8myfriends]

@@rse3560 also learn what the word tacit means.

[@OscarLangleySoryu]

If that's not a hate crime, hate crimes don't exist.

[@alexbennet4195]

It’s literally sounding less and less like a hate crime the more information I read

[@OscarLangleySoryu]

@@alexbennet4195 lol??? What the fuck are you reading?

[@zzmoonz]

@@alexbennet4195 are you dense?

[@Dreagostini]

So a crime against someone because of some irational negative disposition against someone being in a particular group of people is what?

[@OscarLangleySoryu]

@@Dreagostini I don't think you understood my comment.

[@stevendurrant1724]

A really distressing case, horribly reminiscent of the murder of Sophie Lancaster, also in northern England (goth lass victim of hate crime) UK laws about discussing an ongoing case are really strict. I’m always amazed at coverage of cases in the US. I guess if this discussion counted towards a defence complaint / mistrial then something similar would have happened before.

[@FabbrizioPlays]

Y'all remember the first episode of Better Call Saul? Where he's trying to argue that "these kids just did a dumb thing, haven't we all" and then the prosecution just brings out the TV. That's this. That's what's happening here.

[@npena1941]

Ya fuckin' nailed it, bud.

[@William-Morey-Baker]

i genuinely despise the prison abolishionists that just ignore reality and think everyone is redeemable... they arent... some monsters should never see the light of day, and some actions are unforgivable. some people do not deserve second chances.

[@marcosa2000]

Counterpoint: everybody deserves a second chance. If they are not redeemed then they should remain in prison, but if they have a track record of having repented over a period of time then they should be accepted back into society. This does not mean I condone the attack at all, I just strongly disagree with the take

[@Chapman1886]

​@@marcosa2000Well said.

[@Alex-cq1zr]

Nah, prison abolitionist ideas makes sense in *most* cases.

[@greenghoul157]

Rest in peace Brianna, humans all deserve to live in peace without fear of getting murdered

[@somerandommen]

Not mfers like these ghouls, tho I suppose they've lost the 'human' title.

[@Seachained_Ghost]

"Oh their 15 & 16, their just kids" 28 fucking times. No, keep em locked up at minimum.

[@Shventastic]

You're telling me these two could "access the dark web" but not Google "ibuprofen"? Get all the way out of town.

[@DasKlappital]

This was handled very poorly by the media here because of the “hate crime” context. I’m glad the family have a chance to grasp some closure. Such a tragic loss of life.

[@alexbennet4195]

Wdym, in that it doesn’t actually sound like it was a hate crime after all, but people were convinced that it had to be? I mean, considering that the killers had multiple other potential victims lined up?

[@DasKlappital]

@@alexbennet4195 it actually just became about whether or not it was a hate crime and less about the tragedy itself. Transphobia is a big issue in the U.K., to this day, the continued and constant speculation about the supposed motive undermined the tragic loss of young person. As in, minorities and others don’t help themselves.

[@zaferoph]

I feel like people in chat are larping super hard on the IDEA of reformative justice without anything else. Personally, reformative efforts are ALWAYS ideal but you need to have the correct systems in place for it to work which I don't think any country has for these types of situations.

[@nerag7459]

I'm big on reformative and or restitutional justice but most people who serve time in jail don't murder people. You still have to protect people from sex offenders and murderers.

[@FloofMother]

Proof that if the joker was real, he’d be super lame

[@vincent-of-the-bog]

Evil is so mind-numbingly stupid sometimes, it is beyond surreal to have a life be snuffed out by curelty that reads like bad creepypasta, to say nothing of the revolting dehumanization rhetoric; I don't believe those two * see * personhood. I do hope justice prevails and those kids are kept away from being able to do any more harm to anyone. Rest in power, Brianna Ghey. And be safe out there, friends.

[@piccolo917]

Yea, jail forever for the both of them, pretty please. That is psychopath/sociopath behavior if I ever saw it. These are and will remain a danger to society

[@nomorepikachu]

„They’re 16, chill out.“ Ah yes, we‘ve all been there. Bad skin, hormones all over the place, embarrassing clothes, stabbing someone 28 times. Hashtag just teen things lol 😝

[@natej1026]

Once again, chat misses the point and goes full virtue mode because Vaush thinks these kids are clearly evil. Outstanding stuff.

[@tomabuohari8305]

But what's a more edgelord position than to be sympathetic to overtly psychopathic murderers?

[@fractalign]

I am getting fed up with with peeps arguing to spare cold blooded killers. The Australian High Court recently granted a convicted contract killer freedom after arguing that he would face the death penalty if he was extradited back to his home country.

[@EnderProGaming]

Yeah psychopathy is widely considered untreatable and in some cases psychopaths will even use their therapy sessions to practice their manipulation skills. It's just way too much of a risk to not keep these kinds of people permanently locked up.

[@bibsp3556]

They found that you can't keep immigrants in detention camps indefinitely. As a result, it seems one dude who I believe has served his sentence, won't be deported, as he has australian citizenship, and will be treated as a domestic prisoner would. Don't pretend they don't care about it, it went to the high court. Sounds like you're reading straight out of The Australian or something.

[@zagreus5773]

Uhm, that is completely fair and normal. If Australia does not have the death penalty, of course they cannot morally extradite someone that would get one.

[@Chapman1886]

Life isn't black and white. Thankfully, people like you aren't fit or in position to determine who can be rehabilitated. Getting a lengthy prison sentence and being extensively evaluated before the possibility of ever being relased, is not these murderers being spared justice. Not defending these assholes btw, only the ignorant arguments so many have.

[@anthonyrowland9072]

You're comparing a contract killer to two nuts kids? They could be in a mental ward for an indefinite time...

[@The5armdamput33]

Who wrote this story? It's completely unrealistic for the characters to openly conspire to kill their victim... They would have to be complete morons...

[@morganhess6876]

Best comment, even if no one else realizes it.

[@Dreagostini]

That's the good part. Reality isn't bound to be anywhere near being believeable. And I think that's pretty wild. That some things are so far removed from what we would consider logical, but yet it happened.

[@EnderProGaming]

Psychopathy is also associated with just general impairments to cognition so it kinda makes sense I guess

[@amelliamendel2227]

Justice needs to be removed from the criminal reform system and it should be tier-based graduate through the tiers and your released into a halfway house / work release program until they're good on your own with maybe some follow-up therapy. In the very least the arbitrary sentence length needs changed to a tier-based release program in the very least Justice and fitness for society need to be separated just like Peace officers and the people that actually take you to jail should be separate.

[@EnderProGaming]

Psychopathy is widely considered untreatable and some psychopaths will even use their therapy sessions to practice their manipulation skills so in this case I'm fine with them staying permanently locked up

[@amelliamendel2227]

@@EnderProGaming Sure, there's a non zero number of people who would need to remain on the first tier indefinitely, but that's not a reason to not have a tier system for release that's progressive.

[@anthonyrowland9072]

3:20 the instant blowing off an obvious mental defect is why nothing will ever change. Reminds me of the two 12 YEAR OLD girls they tried as adults for the attempted murder of their friend for the slenderman until someone was like "they're clearly nuts and need help..."

[@BugsHaveProtein]

Being trans with ASPD made this one pretty complicated to watch. Justice for Brianna either way

[@GeraldEatsSoup]

This one hits close because it wasnt too far from where i live

[@eduardhegyi]

This is horrible... Psychopaths, even if they get all that bad rep from movies and books and such, are still human. Only a small part of psychopaths end up being murderers and most just seem cold to average people.

[@lollipopwee1]

Rest in peace, Brianna.

[@xx_isabel_the_wolf_xx3869]

28 stab wounds.... you have a sick sense of humor History

[@BradCarter27]

I’m from uk…. You can get charged as an adult depending on the severity of the crime. As far as a hate crime, I’d imagine that motive could affect the outcome.

[@anthonyrowland9072]

So that's where we got that dumb ass rule from?

[@BradCarter27]

@@anthonyrowland9072 Not sure what you mean by that.

[@Henrik_Holst]

ibuprofen and paracetamol are two completely different things. The red ibuprofen that where used here contains 200mg ibuprofen per pill and lethal does is in the range of 150-200 pills depending on body weight.

[@BradCarter27]

@@Henrik_Holst I’m aware they’re different things, I’m not suggesting they would cause death, just that they may have not just been ibuprofen. I’ll retract, was over stated… I don’t think someone is gonna eat a box of pills anyways and I’m certainly not gonna take a crazy persons text at face value.

[@Sara_Kane]

Much like Jamie Bulger's killers, it's highly likely that Brianna's killers are beyond rehabilitation. You don't simply grow out of monstrous mindsets like theirs, Jamie's murderers didn't, and I have little doubt these two sickos will be no different.

[@AximVidya]

I demand the fate-worse-than-death penalty

[@WokeandProud]

Agreed lets start pushing downloading of consciousness to virtual reality so we can actually do that.

[@zactron1997]

What is the cringe penalty in the US?

[@FelisImpurrator]

Lack of empathy is not the same thing as actively wanting to go out and stab people. It's not like there's some innate motivation to murder all people have, that's only stopped by empathy. That's basically like the Christian "But if you don't have God, what stops you from doing all these bad things?" reasoning.

[@brittvaughn9447]

I once had a guy in college ask me, "if you don't believe in God, what stops you from eating babies?" My response was, "Wait, is that the only thing stopping you from eating babies?!?!"

[@darkphoenix2]

Someone in chat needed to ask him if he thought a 16 year old psychopath or a 40 year old psychopath is more likely to be rehabilitated Put them in prison for a good long while, but these are the exact people who might have still be salvageable

[@willowtree7326]

this is so terrible and heart breaking

[@seamstressdragon8707]

Kevin Logan, a British leftist KZbinr and Twitch streamer has done a fantastic and scathing condemnation of the British press and TERFs and their hateful rhetoric that influenced this horrific murder of this poor girl.

[@Dr.Spatula]

Her being trans sounded pretty incidental (without the context why they wanted to kill boy E) to why they were killing her, so it would likely be very hard to guarantee the charge

[@Kasiarzynka]

In a way, yes, but then girl X also fixated on Brianna because she was trans ("she's a girl and sounds like a girl and is pretty but has [male body parts], lol").

[@dinodare1605]

@@Kasiarzynka To be fair, that didn't sound like hate crime language, it sounded like weird fixation. Not saying that it couldn't have been a hate crime, but it also could have been describing the "captivating" person that they wanted to prey on like a hunter describing the deer that they shot (which also tends to be very creepy).

[@Kasiarzynka]

@@dinodare1605 yeah, I didn't mean it as a proof of a hate crime, but more so the reason of a fixation, which fixation then lead to the killing. An indirect cause, so to say. So she'd possibly still live if she wasn't trans (or not, maybe girl X would've still fixated on her without her being trans).

[@Proletrolliat]

Anything less than life in prison is injustice

[@an7ici7izen64]

Vaush is completely correct. These two killers should get the wall. A majority of people are capable of rehab. This kind of detachment from other people's worth and inherent value - irredeemable.

[@dinodare1605]

The irredeemable part was extending it to murder. You can't criminalize a lack of empathy and most people who have that problem for disorder reasons aren't actually going to go and be murderers. They crossed the moral event horizon, but everyone down here needs to stop turning it into a diagnosis thing... It's irresponsible.

[@Lotan_]

I'm not giving the state the right to decide who lives and dies.

[@kKing235]

oh boy, what a wonderful time to discover myself

[@blufoas]

I was rewatching old Vaush videos so I was getting a lot of suggestions for videos I’ve already seen. I thought with the thumbnail this was one of the old videos, then I saw how long ago this was posted and I was like, “Huh, what, this happened a while ago? Interesting…”

[@RealmRabbit]

I wouldn't say death penalty, I would say life in prison potentially if they can't get rehabilitated... There was a person, Mary Bell, who was VERY young (halfway toward adulthood) when they killed a couple other people who were even younger than them and even I think mutilated the body of one or both... She also went to the family of her victim when the killer was unknown and asked to talk to them and the family assumed she hadn't heard the tragic news yet, but then she told the family that she actually just wanted to see the dead body and the door was slammed in her face... Also I think she was seen giggling at a funeral of a victim... BUT then this seemingly twisted person spent a ton of time imprisoned and was eventually got out and she disappeared for a bit... When next she was found, there was a HUGE media push about her with people harassing her wanting to interview her and everything and they also quickly found out that during the time she was gone she had had a daughter... And this daughter previously knew nothing about her mother's past as a killer, but now Mary Bell due to the media was probably forced into having a very awkward conversation with her since there was no hiding it... And like the media was just insane, hiding in trees I think to record her movements and stuff... She took the media to court and won (this is in the UK btw), getting a sort of gag order to where the media was no longer allowed to pursue her and had to leave her alone... Regardless, seems she was able to turn her life around from her childhood... I mean, her daughter was doing well so she seemingly dropped the murder habit she had when little... Hasn't murdered anyone else as far as we know... And I think if you dig there's also other cases of like, people who did some really awful stuff turning their life around...

[@kindredspirit9703]

Yeah, I'm a fan of life in prison without parole being the highest sentence, and these people seem like they shouldn't be around the general population, or for that matter criminals of lower charges. Wouldn't mind letting people stuck in lifelong prison get education and potential nonmandatory remote work to encourage them to contribute to the community, though. Especially if similar programs existed outside of prison.

[@EnderProGaming]

I wouldn't wanna give anyone the death penalty but psychopathy is widely considered untreatable so I personally really wouldn't want to take the risk of those kinds of people just walking around freely.

[@NeilEvans-xq8ik]

BS

[@FabbrizioPlays]

It's not "could they possibly be rehabilitated" it's "are we willing to take that chance".

[@carmandirda]

I think there's a big difference between making a mistake and intentionally taking life because you can. Assuming the story is even true, I don't like that she got her happy ending. She ruined the lives of many for no reason other than the sick pleasure from their death and grief. You want to kill and mutilate people, you lose your right to freedom.

[@kassandra03]

I feel like what chat is not getting about discussing their sentences is that life in psych ward wouldn't be any more human for them than life in prison. That being said, I'd be fine with either sentence. Rather that then those two continuing there are already planned out killing spree wich they don't seem to show any remorse for even after they actually killed their first victim...

[@anthonyrowland9072]

You're not in with other violent criminals in a mental hospital. It's night and day in America which says more about out hellprisons than the hospitals. Society is cracking under mental health and we keep throwing out "evil" like Titanic deck chairs...

[@beep_the_foolish]

I get that everyone is sickened by their dehumanisation of a transperson but I think they're missing the unimaginable stupidity of these cringelords. They put zero effort into not getting caught, used basic text messaging to discuss their planned murders, killed a person in broad daylight in public, tried to poison someone with over the counter painkillers, literally everything about this was always going to lead to them getting caught very quickly. TBH, I think we need to mock them and call them cringe. Don't let them think for even a moment that they're dark or cool or powerful. They were too hornybrain for jeff the killing and now everyone knows it and thinks they're lame. Let the next edgelords see how embarassing it is and think twice.

[@diegomo1413]

Are we sure she died from the 27 stab wounds? Are we sure she didn’t just die of sheer cringe?

[@tartipouss]

As someone very heavily against death penalty who want to believe that everyone can change and is a product of their environment ...Extreme cases like this are just... so depressing. I don’t have another word for it. I just hate even thinking about it. The idea that... you can just be born and your brain is just dysfunctional and you just don’t feel empathy for other, so because you don’t feel anything from loving and helping other you can only feel some strong happiness by acting on your most vile impulses with no remorse or guilt... and the only thing a person like this could have done would have been to have been taught to just never act on these impulses... it feels so wrong. Again, I feel terrible just thinking about it Yeah sure, not acting on these impulses is important, but for someone like this who don’t *feel* any reason not to other than "I *know* that I shouldn’t do it because I’ve been told so, but I don’t *understand* why"... Like... it’s not their fault... but they’re still dangerous, they still hurt and in this case straight up murder an planned on murdering a few other, so they need to be stopped and while life in prison is perfectly reasonable, if they *need* to spend the rest of their life in prison then they might as well be put to death penalize... And I really *REALLY* don’t want to think about the necessity of killing certain people just because they were born in a way that makes them very likely to hurt and kill other people. I know it’s an extreme cases, but it still pain me. I both hate them for their behavior and pity them because of the lack of control they had over their predisposition Ofc these kids had the control to *not* fking stab her 28 times, but I don’t think they had control over wanting to do such horrible acts, to have such more than morbid curiosity and such enjoyment out of seeing pain... I hate it all so much

[@violetsparkles5453]

Here’s the thing… lacking empathy doesn’t automatically make you a bad person. The inability to feel empathy doesn’t mean you’re sadistic. These people take it a step beyond, it’s not a lack of empathy. It is true degeneracy, it is hate, it is evil.

[@davidbodor1762]

The ibuprofin thing I read as being given to her without her knowledge? Later in the threat it's said she threw up and didn't seem to recognize the ibuprofin shell instead saying it looked like grape peels.

[@brglbrmft]

9:17 ugh. those people. "blah blah blah they need *help* after they ended someones life." hope people like that have the luxury to never get their mind changed about that.

[@Lotan_]

You are not a Leftist if you do not believe in restorative justice.

[@brglbrmft]

@@Lotan_ so far, no one could convince me of this being anything else but a reward system for evil people. i mean sure, the current system isn't doing anything for anyone either. but i doubt the solution would be to let the victims also get to pay for the "restorative" programs of their perpetrator via taxes - which are always described as pretty much being a prolonged spa visit. a nice home, therapy, sports and other enertrainment programms. ah yes and don't forget, those who suffered the crime can go fluff themselves and pay for their own therapy and distractions. pure. genius. oh and i honestly don't care about some stupid label, if the ideas behind it are stupid. but maybe you care. you seem to be a caring leftist. you surely can explain "restorative justice" to me like i am a 5 year old *and* convince me of it. please, make me a believer.

[@Kaefer1973]

If it's an incurable cognitive disfunction they need to be in a medical institution for the rest of their lifes, not in prison. Prison should focus on rehabilitation, not punishment, but either way if rahabilitation is not possible prison is the wrong place.

[@dinodare1605]

Nobody is really going to disagree with that when the medical institution would still be imprisonment... Reformed prisons and reformed mental institutions are both going to have a decent quality of life, it's just that the latter needs certain safety features.

[@Kaefer1973]

@@dinodare1605 I think they all have these (as far as long- or lifetime intitutions go) not just for patients a threat to others but also for these a threat to themselves (and maybe others in the process).

[@Kaefer1973]

@DarthMizinth Are you sure you made the comment at the riight place here? If not, I must ask who "we" is. Since I won't and you really shouldn't either. If there's other people included in "we", you may have to talk to them and depending on how that goes, stop associating with them.

[@starlight2098]

There's no death penalty in the UK, Vaush! Hasn't been since 1969! (Last execution 1964.) Except for treason, until 1998 when that was also banned. (Last execution 1946.) (Though since you asked, prior to that it was death by hanging in a closed chamber.)

[@fluffynator6222]

How does adding the hate crime weaken the murder case, even if the judge decided it's not a hate crime it's still 100% guilty on murder. Like, this isn't a closed deal, the law doesn't work like that.

[@Angelic_Storm]

I'm not sure how the law works regarding that, only that I know that if something is proven to be a hate crime, it means that the sentence will be more severe than without that additional aggravating motive. I'd say though, that as long as the judge finding that a hate crime is not proven wouldn't reduce their sentences as a result, then the prosecution should have pushed for the hate crime charge to be added. I think it's beyond doubt really that anti-trans hate did play a part in her murder, even if they probably would have killed a cis person eventually if they hadn't known Brianna.

[@rob9368]

Wouldn't really say its a hate crime

[@yandere8888]

i feel like a part of this is ppl viewing snuff and gore as "cool and edgy" or wutever so a lot of edgy wannabe kids like the ones that killed brianna gravitate towards it ppl should be respectful when looking at gore, not banning it (cuz i think that makes the edgelords like it)

[@Sara_Kane]

I dunno, I truly think you need to have a screw loose somewhere to commit that sort of horrific violence. Why gravitate towards snuff unless that's the case? I mean, there is a world of difference between loving horror (even violent, gory horror), and revelling in real life graphic violence and torture. Despite what some ignoramuses think, you can love the former whilst still being a normal, well adjusted, non-violent, peace desiring individual. Getting a kick out of real life violence though, is a different matter altogether. Anyone in that category isn't a person I'd like to know personally, as all people like that have the potential to commit the monstrous acts that Brianna's killers did.

[@somerandommen]

Why is there an 8888 in your handle?

[@yandere8888]

@@somerandommen reference to a person who abandoned me, they liked the number 8 and specifically 8888

[@somerandommen]

@@yandere8888 Might wanna change it. 8888 is a Neo-Nazi dog-whistle

[@cvntyspicedlatte]

Its so sad how a life was taken and all transphobes and TERFs can do is cheer or make excuses for the teens who commited the murder. Im so glad Brianna was loved. Rest in peace ❤️

[@bluchu22]

So this isn’t so much as transphobia as psychopathy? Huh.

[@dumbasssupreme4022]

both boy y and girl x referred to her as an "it". boy y constantly, girl x less often, but she still said it.. (for example, she said: "[i'm going to keep] part of its flesh and an eyeball... i really want one of its eyes"). boy y also said in reference to brianna "its a boy", and girl x did not contest this. boy y said he wanted to see "what dick size it had," if "it would scream like a man or a woman" and called brianna a "tr***y." none of which girl x objected to. they are pretty clearly transphobic. they had a list of targets which they wanted to kill for different reasons; boy e for being a non/c3, boy r for snitching on girl x, boy c & boy s for being mean to girl x's boyfriend, boy m for interacting with boy y's crush, and brianna for being trans and "fascinating," "unnatural," etc. girl x was obsessed with brianna because she was trans. transphobia was definitely a massive factor in briannas death. (they also had a plan to cut the dick off a gay guy, feed it to him/put it up his ass, and call him gay.)

[@PackRunner3]

Girl X and boy Y man they never miss a beat do they -.-

[@ChristianNorge]

Lol good point

[@5UM0N3]

Thought that too smh

[@PackRunner3]

Boy M too??

[@alexthefae]

Some of Vaushes chat seriously feeling bad for teen psychopath murderers wtf

[@toddmorningstar4206]

It is a pity that people can be deprived of the ability to feel empathy. They don't get to live their lives having the full human experience and that is in a way very sad.

[@princessstrawberry4623]

As someone who has tried to overdose on ibuprofen before (I was 12, give me a break), I can confirm that anyone who thinks you can kill someone with ibuprofen is completely insane

[@abigfavor]

Chat defending a aspiring serial killers. Life in prison is okay. Wild

[@Angelic_Vanguard]

The worst part is theres a good chance they get off

[@christopherneil8265]

Instances like these are why I can’t say I’m anti-death penalty. Its use in the US is so flawed, but there’s always someone who needs it.

[@plebiain]

I encourage you to familiarize yourself with anti-death-penalty arguments if this is what's encouraging you to be pro-death-penalty

[@HiimIny]

yeah thats a bit fucked up, if thats enough to sway you to not be anti-death penalty, you gotta get a little more educated on the topic and, besides, as horrifying as this whole thing is, and as terribly perversed as their actions were, these are extremely mentally ill teenagers, just 16 years old, no matter how horrible their actions were (and they very much were), they should still be given the oportunity to change and get help, even if forcefully.

[@kindredspirit9703]

Life in prison without parole is better imo. Less abusable by the state, requires fewer tax payer dollars, doesn't require putting the victim's family through the trauma of repeating testimony with several appeals, and it's easier to get psychos locked up faster.

[@dinodare1605]

If "some people's crimes are really really bad" is keeping you on the side of the death penalty, chances are you weren't actually on the road to turn against the death penalty to begin with.

[@Proclifo]

The case against death penalty is that innocent people have gotten executed for crimes they didn't commit, which was revealed after their death.

[@dinodare1605]

Being donated to science might be a valid option in situations like these... I'm sure SOME students would have a blast. It would probably even be better living conditions than regular prison.

[@rainkidwell2467]

I love this

[@Nirakolov]

uh oh... does this mean that it wasn't a hate crime since it sounds like they woulda killed pretty much anyone?