men will literally debate vaush instead of going to therapy

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[@ASolidSnack]

Men will literally debate Vaush instead of going to therapy

[@dragonslaya16]

Debate therapy

[@anewagora]

por que no los dos?

[@EmpressTiffanyOfBrittany]

They need a father figure to take out their frustrations out on

[@TelPhi_]

Was the title different before this comment or something?

[@augustdeer]

@@TelPhi_ It was originally just "The Interracial Marriage Debate" or something.

[@lastknight4217]

As someone in an interracial marriage, I become VIOLENTLY agitated when he said people are incapable of loving someone of another and are only drawn to them because of a fetish, holy shit I feel physically ill

[@musicf3b]

By their logic, could men date women without having a fetish? To be safe we should all just date within our own sex.

[@lastknight4217]

@@musicf3b Unfortunately as a vaushite, my overwhelming testosterone instantly converts anyone I have prolonged contact with into a woman, truly I am incapable of true love 😔

[@sapiensursus3034]

@@lastknight4217 Find someone else with overwhelming testosterone to balance it out.

[@premiersportingkc3443]

As someone who's also in an interracial marriage, I had the same feeling

[@truckerdave8465]

I think this is some huge family baggage.

[@grandsome1]

That guy has internalized so much of the racism he's been subjected from both side that he came to the conclusion that people like him shouldn't exist. That kinky hair comment, that straight hair is better is def some anti-black self hate. The guy is projecting his hurt like mad, hope he gets therapy. I'm grateful that my mixed-race friends and family are happy and proud of who they are unlike that poor guy.

[@revenge3265]

Yep. Anyone in the black community can sense the red flag of someone black/mixed saying that ("straight hair is better") from MILES away. It's definitely giving me self-hatred. Dude truly needs some therapy to sort himself out.

[@butHomeisNowhere___]

@@revenge3265 And he doesn't seem, to me, like a genuinely "bad person". He actually thinks his opinions would lead to less harm in the world. And, idk, that makes me a little sad, I guess.

[@Bkilfoil747]

@@butHomeisNowhere___ its a reminder that good people can do horrible things if using bad information with systematic power.

[@angelikaskoroszyn8495]

The only way ~white~ hair is better than ~black~ is that it's generally easier to take care of. And even that is a generalisation (there's no such thing as one white hair type) and assumption you want your hair free flowing all the time

[@The1nvisibleJeevas]

Tbf, what non-mixed race therapist would even want to touch mixed race issue with a ten foot pole? I’ve given up on trying to talk about it with the many professionals I’ve had cause they just don’t seem to understand.

[@stardust3176]

He’s facing racism from black people, yet instead of condemning it he just thinks that mixed races people shouldn’t exist. He internalized the racism he faced. It’s incredibly sad

[@user-yq6hg1rh7b]

Yeah like... if interracial marriage didn't exist, would his solution to racism just be for black Americans to "return to Africa" instead of actually teaching tolerance? I have a feeling this guy very well has the mental processes to become a black sepratist

[@irrelevantcheese8623]

I don’t think that’s the point he was making

[@Myloypip]

Yeah. Just stop watching vaush if you are too incompetent to follow the Information. You are no different than Ben Shapiro types. I would like you to think about that so you can improve

[@sicily9766]

As a mixed race person (black and white) I used to just find these people cringey and embarrassing, but now that I have a daughter (with my Guatemalan boyfriend) it’s definitely boiling my blood. She’s not a product of fetish and she nor we will ever feel guilty for her existence. Seriously who hurt this guy

[@dontuserachelslurs]

Racists, probably

[@shannond1511]

I'm surprised ppl even know that she's black, being 1/3 black.

[@beertje6394]

I first read this that u had a daughter with her boyfriend which make me think Alabama at it again. But reading keeps being difficult I guess.

[@ashwilliams1725]

@@shannond1511 Not 1/3

[@dylanstacey6782]

"Who hurt this guy?" Black people from the sounds of it. I feel genuinely bad for him, his experience as a mixed race person has been so terrible that he views it as an inherently negative thing

[@MariahBunni]

I watched this debate live and it got progressively sadder because you can tell this guy has had some family members or friends that said some racist shit to him in the past.

[@andrewgeary9749]

yes I definitely believe he's telling the truth about the things he's heard people say/seen dynamics be like, and I think that it has upset him enough to think no one is in healthy relationships.

[@epicurusstan3223]

he needs a hug

[@streamerssaymyname]

@@andrewgeary9749 I think he also has a hard time understanding that with enough people mixing - there will be even less racist people like he grew up with.

[@butHomeisNowhere___]

Kinda sad how mean chat was being. Chat needs to learn to chill sometimes, because for leftists, there isn't a lot of empathy. Hell, I even sensed empathy from Vaush starting about halfway through (not done quite yet though)

[@PinHeadSupliciumwtf]

@@streamerssaymyname if you see racism as one form of discrimination then that's BS. Japan is a homogeneous as it gets and what do they do? Discriminate via class. Teaching people to accept others as they are is the only way to get rid of any isms.

[@lor108avi]

As a half black guy with stable relationships and positive self esteem, this dude made me cringe. He was right that black people can give more shade than MAGA types but his take on IR relationships was awful. He does need therapy man.

[@CynicalBastard]

He is confused. You are too. You people should try and help each other figure things out. Instead, you just hate each other. Typical leftist behavior.

[@CynicalBastard]

@@MichaelMakesGameMusic "An inherently bad guy" - particularising people into such black and white terms...where have I seen that before?

[@mogscugg2639]

I left my last girlfriend on good terms at age 9 because she didn't like bionicle

[@Romanticoutlaw]

valid tbh

[@ivystuart1736]

Dodged a bullet

[@TheSurrealist.]

Based

[@menschgebliebenergossenpar9213]

Good decision.

[@Vickyeverythingelsewastaken]

Leaving someone for not liking Bionicle is based at any age. Especially when you have kids because someone has to teach them the lore, after all!

[@dinodare1605]

32:59 This guy is actually wrong. Having black, kinky hair and wearing it well is actually a point of pride throughout much of the black community. It's often something that you have to come into via character development, since it can breed insecurities easily that need to be addressed, but learning to embrace having kinky hair is an incredibly common arc for black people, especially black women to go through. It's called "the big snip" for a reason, because it's an entire thing when someone decides to get rid of their straightened hair and start over. And as a black person with kinky hair (type 4c) I'm actually more partial to kinky hair, so him saying that "straight hair is better" and "anybody who says that they like kinky hair clearly doesn't have it" is just false and racist.

[@Lapis.hnk.1984]

@@azlanadil3646 I mean, for lack of a better word?

[@premiersportingkc3443]

As someone who is white and his wife is a POC, I can't understand these people's line of thinking. I dated white and non-white women in the past, and it was basically just circumstance that the person I ended up with was a different race. Neither of us have ever really fixated on the fact that we are an interracial couple. No one in either of our families has ever voiced any issue with it either. In our 8 years of marriage, we experienced open racism precisely once, and that was when we were on vacation. Our biracial kids live in a diverse neighborhood, and so far they haven't experienced any open racism towards them either. It's totally possible for interracial couples to just exist and nobody around them makes a big deal about it

[@adamsmasher9769]

It all depends on location. My fiance and myself were essentially run out of oklahoma because white nationalism and hate are so widespread there. Like legit death threats and rocks through windows bad. Its ridiculous that people look at race the way they do

[@SanguineThor]

Based family

[@democracydignityhumanrights]

@@adamsmasher9769 this is true. I’m in a relationship with an Iranian, and I wouldn’t let her come here until I moved out of rural Arkansas, which I just did. So in a year I’m gonna bring her to my new ultra liberal home.

[@adamsmasher9769]

@@democracydignityhumanrights its such a sad thing isnt it?

[@democracydignityhumanrights]

@@adamsmasher9769 it really is. There are other reasons I left Arkansas, I had people try to do violence against me over my beliefs. I’ve known my whole life Republicans are fascists.

[@umbreonic766]

this guy will go "let's say, hypothetically," and then describe his mommy issues in gross detail

[@anothercub6958]

It really clicked in my mind that he sounded like Ben Shabibo when he said" But what you REALLY mean is..."

[@nyxvalentine809]

@@anothercub6958 ya i was at this debate and my first thought was discount ben shapiro

[@M3G4FR34K]

@@nyxvalentine809 oh, cuz he's half-white he's discounted?! /j

[@KenHayes0]

@@nyxvalentine809 Ben Shanegro

[@thane732]

man, it really is a coin toss as to whether you leftists will be puritans or exhibitionists when it comes to sexual fetish. you'll either promote the most degenerate shit, or shame the most degenerate shit, and really, it only comes down to whether you can use either one to bash against your opponents

[@TayTayMakesBeats]

I kinda want to give this guy a hug. I think he could use a hug. It would be an interracial hug but that's ok.

[@krunkle5136]

Hugs don't solve problems.

[@butHomeisNowhere___]

That's exactly how I felt. Like, come here bro. You're among friends now.

[@Star-pl1xs]

@@krunkle5136 do u want one too? i have no idea who u are so it's safe to say yes

[@mcnoodles3010]

@@krunkle5136 this is so cold. i love it 😂

[@typhoonic]

@@krunkle5136 can't tell if trolling or serious. i've seen so many people's anger and hate absolutely crushed with one simple hug irl

[@derpythean-comdoge8608]

I thought this said “men will literally date vaush instead of going to therapy” highly disappointed.

[@vic2249]

Therapy would have to come first before this guy would be willing to date vaush

[@trianglemoebius]

To be fair, given the (admittedly limited) things Vaush has said about his former male partners... this may be true.

[@KJDogluv]

😂😂😂

[@ivystuart1736]

Omg this poor guy…the part where he talked about hating his kinky hair…I hope he finds his way out of the sunken place

[@butHomeisNowhere___]

I genuinely do wish him the best. He's either been hurt or been SERIOUSLY misled by someone he trusted

[@crabohato4954]

This was a very weird debate. The idea that people can ONLY be with other people of different races because of some stereotypes they might embody is just absolutely stupid and superficial. Just seemed like this dude had mommy + relationship issues

[@wile123456]

He is also addicted to interracial porn

[@osonhouston]

I am black and some black people feel that black people can't trust other races but mainly white people for various reasons. It is however my opinion that black people will accept interracial couples and mixed raced children a point against my argument is I've seen a rise of mixed raced couples with a white male and black female.

[@marykateandnoashley]

bro the people who claim dating another race is “fetishist” blow my mind 😭😭

[@l.3ok]

@@marykateandnoashley and it always seems to be some weird kind of projection too

[@marykateandnoashley]

@@l.3ok straight up, sounds like maybe this guy had a slightly racist partner or something and he’s experienced social ostracizing. all of that sucks ass, ofc. but you cant justify segregation and call everyone who dates or finds people hot outside their race a fetishist and stereotyper. come on bro, just go to therapy and stop being weird

[@redrover1186]

"Tell me one positive aspect of being black in America, because I can't find one." Bruh. You don't sound okay.

[@briannoel7398]

This guy: "stereotype bad" Also this guy: *can't stop stereotyping interracial couples*

[@MomsterGirl]

I'm in a mixed race relationship and H O L Y SHIT when he started going off about "less loving" and "BASED IN FETISHISM" it made me feel genuinely sick, what an *insane* position to hold.

[@PunkZombie1300]

Around the 1 hour mark he started talking about needing to speak to people before he finds then attractive. He's basically just describing being demisexual (a form of asexuality where you don't find people sexually attractive until you form an emotional connection with them first, then you progressively become more attracted to them as your emotional connection grows). I'm not going to ascribe that label to him, maybe I misinterpreted what he was saying or maybe he wouldn't consider himself that, but either way he seems to not realize that other people are able to find physical characteristics attractive without knowing the person first. He seems to be projecting that and combining it with his ideas on races and his own personal issues, making any kind of physical attracted inherently fetishization.

[@jurgnobs1308]

there definitely are interracial relationships that are dominated by fetishization. claiming that's true for all or most is messed up

[@Nazinsky]

Very sickening

[@rainbowkrampus]

Vaush should really be charging for these "debates". My therapist charges around 100$ for the hour. This skinflint gets away with nearly 3 hours. I mean, sure Vaush isn't licensed, so maybe bump that down to $50 and call it fair?

[@flaskhjertako]

NOTE FOR ANYONE SEEING THIS. SKINFLINT MEANS CHEAPSKATE

[@rainbowkrampus]

@@flaskhjertako This might be the most confusing comment I've ever received.

[@amyglynn6827]

@@rainbowkrampus tbf i had zero clue what skinflint meant so it was kinda helpful lol

[@bonthebunnycat667]

Bro if youre getting charged $100 you are being scammed

[@rainbowkrampus]

@@bonthebunnycat667 No insurance, c'est la vie.

[@lrose5522]

Baffling how he's supposedly in the hard sciences and completely without evidence other than his personal experiences asserts that *most relationships of a certain type* are less loving. Not to mention, how does he know how people truly feel about each other? He's basing it all on what he assumes from what they said, he's psychoanalyzing them based on casual conversation

[@dawildbear]

I knew a guy doing a masters in Biochemistry & Microbiology who didn't believe in climate change, because literally 1 book told him they'd seen some emails which said it was a hoax. I dunno if this is common but

[@jeffersonclippership2588]

@@dawildbear Probably more common than we think. The humanities teach you how to think.

[@jeffersonclippership2588]

@Peter Caldwell English: lets discuss what these characters were really trying to say Math: this equals this anything else is wrong deal with it Not sure you should be mad at the humanities lol

[@AnAktualKoala]

"You shouldn't generalize people because we're all individuals and it's dehumanizing." *Shits pants when world doesn't perceive everything exactly like he does*

[@johnhart4413]

It's amazing how many people who only date people of their own race have accused me of fetishism for having a diverse sexual history.

[@sypherthe297th2]

Unfortunately a lot of people are unironically insane. Personal attraction is one area that people really should be live and let live regarding. A lot of it is set in childhood and emerges later in life. It's not a conscious decision someone just makes. If a person dates outside of their race/ethnic group or within is no one else's business but the two people involved in the relationship. Not their family. Not society. Not racist Twitter. End of story.

[@MilesRoseProductions]

This guy is the personification of "Sad Cringe"... As a mixed race guy myself, I can easily see the red flags that he is definitely suffering from self hatred and internalized racism, and he is projecting that racism onto every person who is in a mixed race relationship. He also seems to have no idea what "love" is. Vaush mentions "love" multiple times in this discussion as the most important determining factor in any relationship, but this guy is just like "define love, what even is love?" Wtf? I feel bad for him because it seems like he has never been in love, and has also been subject to so much racism from both white and black people growing up that he has internalized it into his whole world view. Now it is eating him from the inside. I see where all the "therapy" comments are coming from, but honestly this is such a niche issue that I don't even think most therapists would know where to start or even be able to understand how to untangle this mess, but at least attempting therapy would be a good step in the right direction. It almost seems like Vaush was acting as his therapist in the last half of the video

[@Lapis.hnk.1984]

As a mixed guy myself I couldn’t agree more

[@helvete_ingres4717]

if you listen to what vaush is saying around the 45-minute mark (say 44:30); you can see his position is like a truism b/c he in fact doesn't draw any distinction between fetishism and love

[@titaniawallace4223]

I caught this one live and it seemed increasingly clear to me the longer that this conversation went on that this guy is literally just neurodivergent and he doesn't understand relationships the way neurotypical people do. His constantly getting distracted by anything remotely tangential that Vaush brings up SCREAMS ND (I mean as if his thesis statement didn't raise eyebrows already)

[@Warsmith_The]

Agreed, and it makes chat's reactions to some of the things that he said remarkably irksome.

[@titaniawallace4223]

@@Warsmith_The I mean, he was still extremely wrong on like every single point basically

[@chocolatedoughnut1305]

Dude just the way he talks and the way he laughs after every other sentence made me think he’s neurodivergent, and genuinely it can be hard to understand love until you experience it but HOLY FUCK

[@bonthebunnycat667]

Isnt Vaush *Also* ND? What does it have to do with his views?

[@titaniawallace4223]

@@bonthebunnycat667 his views are informed by his perception of his environment and his perception is clearly skewed in some way if he thinks "interracial relationships are inherently less loving because they're based on fetishes"

[@TheReddShinobi13]

Tony literally sounds like he is an anthropomorphized version of the "🤓" emoji

[@TelPhi_]

For real, I thought this voice only existed in fiction lol, he sounds EXACTLY like it wth

[@Warsmith_The]

Rather judgemental. Not all of us have the fortune of being gifted with a golden voice, and vocal coaching costs money. In many cases, possessing a "bad" voice can be one of the most detrimental factors for one's self-esteem.

[@Vickyeverythingelsewastaken]

@@Warsmith_The I don't think it is about vocal chords, more the "well, actually, here's my anecdata..." style of arguing. InnuendoStudios has a similar nasal voice but he uses it well. CorpseHusband could totally sound like 🤓 if he argued like this guy.

[@Warsmith_The]

@@Vickyeverythingelsewastaken I don't believe what you are saying here. Every person who speaks English says "actually" when correcting someone. Every debater who speaks English has used words such as "hypothetically" and "anecdotal". The reason why this individual is being mocked is due to one or both of these factors: 1. He is the "antagonist" of the debate 2. He possesses a nasally voice

[@TheReddShinobi13]

@@Warsmith_The it's not that critical

[@Saurawr]

There was so much sadness in Vaush's voice when he said "You really think that?" at 21:20 Like man, what a fucking crazy thing to say. Really sad to hear someone believe that, you have to imagine years and years of racism and weird shit bouncing around in the guys head to get him to where he is. Wild stuff.

[@FishSticker]

It was hard to hear

[@ghostbill1010]

This debate was a rollercoaster to witness live, and absolutely all of chat was begging for Vaunch to end it lmao

[@albertcapley6894]

I live in the Mobile region of Alabama, white people down here have a "code". Dude is right that white people down here don't want to be perceived as racist... But, they most assuredly don't get over color; there are conversations that I guarantee a white southerner has never had with him, or near him. I can't tell you how many times I've been around somebody for a few days or weeks and I think they're cool and then... Racism, they think I'm in on the code because of my skin, but they don't know shit about my childhood, I knew more black and brown folks than white folks and I don't go along with "the code" and furthermore as far as those people are concerned now, my whitness is revoked in their eyes for "betraying" "my" people. I'm Irish and Creek but very pale, and my people are humans en general.

[@Sil3ntKn1ght]

As a former self-hating mixed person, this progressively got more and more upsetting. Hopefully, he can appreciate aspects of himself.

[@zfea]

Being mixed is amazing .

[@Nazinsky]

@@zfeayes it is ❤!

[@SemiIocon]

This therapy session was productive and I think Tony can turn it around.

[@m0thdm]

100% my dude def been through some shit and it has effected his worldview. WELCOME TO THE REASON FOR EVERYTHING MY CHUMS

[@maialinnet6353]

This guy found sociology boring because his teachers tried teaching him stuff that didn't match his preexisting beliefs.

[@marykateandnoashley]

dude, these are literally boomer talking points… “i am for civil rights but i don’t think they should get married…the kids will have a hard life and never fit in.” facepalm. this is so weird. let consenting stable adults date each other, dear god.

[@wile123456]

He is an Anecdote Andy just projecting his own life onto everything. The culture is the problem, not individual parents.

[@marykateandnoashley]

@@wile123456 ikr literally when he says mixed race couples are lust and stereotypes i can tell he just got dumped or some shit. no way he thinks everyone is this weird about dating other races. come on

[@iang7244]

He’s fine with that. He explicitly said multiple times that his issue is when people select for partners based on race. And in my experience, there usually is some bullshit going on when people have explicit racial preferences.

[@marykateandnoashley]

@@iang7244 we select partners based on all kinds of things, and a lot of them ARE superficial and arbitrary. you can’t see a person’s personality map and philosophical worldview when you walk by them or see their dating profiles- people tend to have qualities, however worldly or arbitrary, that they find attractive and draw us to them in the first place. and some people just think some characteristics are hot, and different “races” tend to share characteristics more often than others do. since race is a dumbass social construct anyway, and one that has been used to justify oppression, ultimately it doesn’t matter. fetishization involves reducing something to a sexual object for your pleasure. it’s possible to do that by any standard, but thinking multiracial couples, or people who find racially attributed characteristics attractive, are all lustful fetishists incapable of loving someone they are attracted to, you are nuts.

[@iang7244]

@@marykateandnoashley Let’s not get off the main point. I know people select partners based on a variety of reasons. When people select specifically for race, I’ve never heard anyone say it’s because of some phenotypical characteristic you see typically within a specific ethnic group. It’s usually some weird fetish thing or because of an active dislike or bias towards other races. For example, I can’t tell you how many people completely disqualify black women from the dating pool because of stereotypes, but Asian and white women are lauded as the cream of the crop. Shit’s weird.

[@RiverOfWetness468]

I've never come across someone who found sociology boring yet thought they knew so much about it

[@Z-Rabbit]

I bet he was angrily shaking in his seat when any discussion of racial differences came up

[@furtado704]

As a Brazilian, things are more tricky here than simply "we changed racism for colorism". We jusy changed the standards of what white and black are and we keep being racist against what we label as black, even if our definitions of white might seem wrong for an America racist. We had nazi groups who introduced minimum quotas of whiteness because of miscigenation, but they were still nazis through and through despite them not being white enough for an European or American racist.

[@ryanb5127]

A lot of this seems to stem from his own discomfort with his own body, some comments making it sound like he is demisexual. He has such a detachment from initial physicality that he believes someone who values it can only care about it

[@MsDinossaur]

he’s projecting his personal insecurities as a societal issue… that “straight hair is better” comment was so telling

[@rache8323]

That stood out to me more than anything.

[@mr.morning1901]

Man, just when you think he can't get more insufferable, he whips out the "social sciences aren't real sciences" card.

[@lx4079]

What is he supposed to do, lie to you?

[@JC-jo9bf]

@@lx4079 No. Just have empathy. He has obviously been wounded as a "mixed race" person and has obvious parent issues. He projects these personal issues onto society. He seems incapable to see anything outside of his "wounded world view".

[@RecRoomPlays]

You can always tell the people who would benefit the most from taking some humanities courses based on how they treat the humanities (assuming they actually, you know, took in what the courses were about and trying to teach, at least).

[@DeepfriedBeans4492]

@@lx4079 No, he should be honest and say it’s real. I know, it’s hard to understand

[@Tarumarugan]

He seems to think that attraction to any characteristics of a person that they can’t change is inherently a fetish and therefore automatically bad, with a huge emphasis on race for him. He just wants someone who loves him for him 😢. I feel you brody we all do 😂

[@ianking7511]

With apologies for the armchair psychology, it feels like this person dislikes being black so much they've literally dissociated their physical appearance.

[@renfrifan1232]

Literally has dysphoria. This is probably what happened.

[@Snow-sx5ev]

Ngl the weirdest part of this debate to me personally was him saying people with kinky hair don't like kinky hair on other people and I'm just like... No?? I adore curly hair. It is so beautiful. I love the braids, how it can be styled, straight haired people try to emulate curls because of how beautiful curly hair is in my opinion. My partner has straight hair and I adore them but curly hair has my heart.

[@lrose5522]

Everything else aside, he comes off as one of those guys who put so much on hard sciences for everything and just brush over sociology/anthropology (ie, one of those guys who should really take an anthropology/sociology course and pay more attention) Especially when he said "race isn't real". In my anthropology class immediately it's like "race isn't biological *but it is absolutely real*"

[@nicolaim4275]

You can always respond to these people by saying colour isn't real. After all, it is just a mental construct.

[@idontwantahandlethough]

I think you hit the nail on the head! A lot of these guys really, REALLY want to believe that they're rational, logical beings all the time. Unfortunately, we just aren't. Humans are emotional beings (and it's not even a bad thing). Sometimes we are rational, but we can never be 100% sure because our brains are quite good at convincing us that whatever assuages our feelings is rationally accurate (even when that's not the case). I used to be a lot like this guy when I was younger. Basically rejected all the soft sciences as garbage, refused to believe in therapy (probably because I desperately needed it lol) because it's "not based on real science", which isn't even true anyway. It doesn't help that the cultural expectation is that men do not express their feelings [in healthy ways]. That seems to be changing slowly over time, but I wish it would happen faster lol

[@lx4079]

"especially when he said something everyone with relevant knowledge understands but I am being purposefully difficult about" imagine thinking this guy thinks we live in a colorblind society or something, like yeah you got his ass he definitely doesn't think race is real If these kinds of perceptions are what anthropology gets you he made the right fucking choice brushing over it lmao

[@jeffersonclippership2588]

The hard sciences are a cult

[@Kropothead]

Yeah, STEMlords often seem to be fairly dumb smart people in the sense that they can be pretty closed-minded.

[@vante2129]

We're not gonna sit up here and act like race fetishizing isn't a problem there's a difference between liking someone for who they are vs liking them because you're into a certain type of entertainment or culture. I've personally had to end a few conversations due to the other person thinking I was gonna be this stereotype and when I didn't validate their assumptions the situation became uncomfortable. Also I have this asian friend who gets all types of weirdos hitting her up talking about how they love asian women but really they're into the image of what asian women are portrayed as in anime.

[@honeyblue2902]

I feel like a lot of the people here ignore the negative history and even current experiences of those who want to enjoy the ideal of interracial marriage without stigma, but have to constantly consider how the erasure or fetishization of their culture is tied to it.

[@truthbetold8233]

Yeah, I'm suspicious of any blatant 'racial preference'. And I do think if you find yourself blatantly (especially exclusively) into people of a particular race, that you probably should scrutinize why that is. That being said, interracial relationships are obviously perfectly great.

[@adomnarkwa]

I actually agree with almost everything Vaushs guest said

[@blubastud]

He's having a hard time understanding the difference between what attracts people to each other and what makes people fall in love. I can be attracted to all tall women but I won't love every tall woman because you get to know them later. He seems to think they are the same thing, like if someone says I like black guys or white guys then they will take any white guy or black guy just because they are black or white. The fact that that does not happen should make him question his logic.

[@erickschusterdeoliveira2662]

this poor dude just really needs some therapy and loving parents

[@verager2493]

First, this is already a much better convo than the anti miscegenation dude, and the guy who was willfully ignorant of anti miscegenation dude. He gives off very strong vibes of projecting his trauma, tho. His definition of fetish maps 1:1 onto physical attraction. That's how he seems to see it. A lot of this arc really emphasizes that just because you're marginalized doesn't mean you don't have to work on yourself. Bad ideas can get into anyone, and it's important to challenge that

[@laviarray]

What is this arc's title? Internalized Racism Arc?

[@idontwantahandlethough]

I think a lot of people, especially people in the U.S. (for some reason I haven't quite figured out yet), have a hard time with personal growth/ self reflection. They've spent so long stuffing their hard feelings down (and those feelings have increasing in intensity the whole time) that now they're _terrified_ of self-reflection. It's really heartbreaking to see.. This entire country needs therapy so badly 😶

[@jaybee27D]

Yeah I think he’s just demisexual so he’s confused by why anyone would be interested in someone before meeting them lol

[@darkcrystalmagik3369]

@@jaybee27D BAM! This right here! LOL, said this in a couple other comments already, (except he's definitely Not "just" demisexual, likely autistic & suffering from trauma, maybe even CPTSD from childhood & racist abuse) but as a demisexual myself, yeah, until you figure that shit out it's confusing AF. Til u hear or read about demis and you instantly discover all this time you've been perfectly normal, simply a minority in terms of what sexuality you belong to, & will therefore have a differences in the ways you experience attraction, also dating, relationships & sex. And some views of the majority will feel downright alien. I genuinely couldn't comprehend during puberty in the early 90s ( B4 Demi was "a thing" ) WHY so many girls talked about celebrity dudes & how "OMG Sooo Hot" they were, when I was sitting there thinking, like seriously, "But how do u know if he's even A GOOD PERSON?!🤷‍♀️ He's probably NOT even SMART! or REMOTELY interesting!!🤦‍♀️ HOW CAN U POSSIBLY LIKE SOMEONE U KNOW NOTHING ABOUT??!! 🤯" LOL, I definitely never had it enter my consciousness that I belonged to a minority part of the population that just experiences sexuality differently, especially since I did have VERY intense romantic feelings & fantasies that bordered on sexual (again, during start of puberty, so tween yrs..by high school it was most Definitely sexual, & romantic) about ppl I knew... which is also why today I still don't agree w/ demisexual being under the umbrella of asexual- myself & other demisexuals I've read opinions from seem to have sexual urges w/ as much frequency as the average person of our age & gender, if not more! Many are high libido. Seriously, WTF is that ... that they/ we can be categorized as asexual seems insane!

[@jeffersonclippership2588]

@@idontwantahandlethough I mean, it's only in the past 20 years, at most, that going to therapy has even been socially acceptable. It used to be considered shameful to do so. Even now it really depends on where you are and what kind of social circle you're in. You're less likely to find acceptance for going to therapy and discussing mental issues in general in rural, conservative areas. This isn't specifically American, either. My parents were born in the Soviet Union in the late 50s and early 60s. They absolutely were the type of people who stuffed their emotions down so deep they didn't know how to deal with them because that's what the culture they grew up in demanded. America was exactly the same way back then. But yeah, tl;dr you're right that this whole country needs therapy.

[@apriljk6557]

Self-hatred can lead people to be far more critical of the individuals that exhibit the traits they dislike about themselves. I definitely share some of his experiences, as a white passing Native, but I'm not sure he's looking at his own experiences honestly. For instance, OF COURSE, he's not going to know the experience of a dark skinned Black person, because he isn't one. His experience is unique to him and maybe the majority of his peers get annoyed by his personality, not his skin tone. I intimately understand colorism exists but to honestly believe it's even near a close call is bs. It kinda seems like he's not paying attention to anyone else's experiences.

[@botanbutton]

Hmm, my mother is mixed (afro latina white passing) and she faced and still faces a lot of colorism from the black community (in California and here in Georgia) but never has she thought there should be no race mixing. She understands why it exists and actively combats racism and colorism. No interracial relationships is not the answer.

[@inurokuwarz]

As a mixed race person, I'd like to apologize for whatever this guy was upset with. I'll try to be born different next time.

[@zking2929]

Yep you gotta try harder next time!

[@hieithefox]

This guy needs to see a therapist for these obvious deep seeded issues related to his upbringing because my god

[@Starman256]

Take a drink anytime this guy Vaush is debating gives an anecdote

[@rawrloler]

played your game and now im dead thanks a lot

[@chirstinasilver7274]

Played your game and now I'm out of coffee. Thanks a lot!

[@marshall7072]

Vaush doing an excellent job here. He isn't always 100% when it comes to race issues, but he knocks this one out of the park. I think the guests views are so heavily skewed by his [shitty] environment that he can't see anything else.

[@SongBird101]

My fiancé is white, and I’m black. We met at a choir camp and we were the only ones from the same school. Fast forward 7 years and now we’re planning our wedding. I can 100% guarantee that he’s not with me for some weird fetish reasons and when we have kids, we’ll encourage them to just love who they love. This guy really needs help

[@MagusMirificus]

Oh please God editors for once leave this perfect title alone.

[@teamjacob2388]

Vaush’s only demerit in this debate is not addressing fetishization with like the actual respect it deserves bc fetishization necessarily entails a negative quality imo. It’s different than preference and admiration. I feel like it’s toxic preference

[@MagusMirificus]

Vaush was making the common colloquial interpolation between "Fetish" and "Fetishization". Colloquially, a fetish can mean anything from a barely pronounced sexual preference to a debilitating obsession; it's used almost interchangeably with sexual desire itself applied to anything outside of the actual pleasure of sex itself. "Fetishization" is more of a philosophical concept along the lines of "Objectification", which yes has inherently negative connotations, because it entails the reduction of one's consideration of their partner to only the fulfillment of one's fetish. It's possible the caller was referring to the concept in this way, causing some never-identified confusion in he conversation, but it's also quite common for sexually timid people--a quality this person gave every possible sign of possessing--to simply refer to the colloquially recognized category of "Fetish" pejoratively, because in their view allowing your personality to bleed into how you have sex in any way at all is a slippery slope to be avoided.

[@teamjacob2388]

@@MagusMirificus lmao I agree completely

[@RangerNationDubs]

There both kinda right in some kind of way. As a light skinned black man(not neccarrily mixed) i've expeirenced more colorism by black people then racism from white people. Theres a very big problem with this stuff in the black community and homophobia of course. But I don't think thats room to not have interacial relationships. But instead hold other black people accountable for there bad ideas. And continue to push for multicultural communities across the country. Cause i'd rather have colorism within groups be the smaller issues, not full on racist oppression.

[@wilkesmcdermid7906]

Colorism worse than racism IMO. People are valued on how they racially look.

[@RangerNationDubs]

@@wilkesmcdermid7906 like in the grand scheme for society. If I'd rather a few colorist comments. Then to be literary oppressed by racist beliefs. Neither feel good; especially from your own race. But they're are definitely more systematic issues from one then the other.

[@wilkesmcdermid7906]

@@RangerNationDubs Colorism will effect your life even more and it is harder to breakdown.

[@RangerNationDubs]

@@wilkesmcdermid7906 that's true on an individual level i will and have dealt with it more. But i don't think I've dealt been oppressed by it to much. While racism has actively stopped me from having opportunities. But colorism can be defectsd if we held people account! Not just let it slide cause there minorities.

[@Darius-scifieart]

Yeah I have to agree here. It matters where you are. But if you're in a more liberal area. Then this unfortunately can be true. As a mixed person myself I frequently have more negative reactions from black people then from white people. I'm sure it's more that the black people know they have the ability to say what they're saying without other people calling them out.

[@chaosprince8291]

This man's problem isn't his skin color. It's his total inability to relate to other people's experiences outside of his own. It's actually terrifying, because he recognizes this inability and insists that his view of the world is the only correct one, and everyone should behave according to his limited understanding of the world.

[@punkandrockgirf]

I hope this guy goes to therapy and finds peace with himself. god damn

[@Alex.R.L]

Here in America, we are pretty much all mutts. We race mix. Our "Irish Joe" POTUS ain't full Irish, is what I'm saying. But I'll also say: with global climate change doing its thing, we each could benefit from a more swarthy equatorial skin tone. Natural sunburn protection.

[@Sergio-nb4hj]

Wow, that's dark lmaoo

[@Gloomdrake]

Brandon is Irish?

[@Alex.R.L]

@@Gloomdrake Chapo Chap House liked to call him "Irish Joe" when he was acting "Dark Brandon--y" before the new name stuck. 'Irish Joe" participates in Saint Patrick's Day. Articles are written about this. He has Irish Humor. His Aunt Gertrude something something Best Rice Pudding outside of a Greek Restaurant something something IRISH. IIRC Obama is part Irish too. The Irish eff. A lot of us have or have had a little Irish in us. Especially politicians. They poll well.

[@SanguineThor]

I'm fuckin sour cream tone because I have swedish genes, I think there could be benefits to not having to use sunscreen 4 times a day when you're outside

[@miscalotastuff733]

How about being allergic to sun protection.

[@Darius-scifieart]

Watching this was especially weird for me. Because I have so much in common with this poor guy. like looking into a warped reflection. I'm also mixed race, half white half black. And even have a preference for Asian women. I like to think my reasons are better. I grew up near New York city's Chinatown and most of my friends have been Chinese. I just can't understand how he wound up that way. To think that mixed race relationships are inherently less loving. And be mixed race, honestly it just made me sad for him. I can't imagine the kind of life he had to have to wind up with that position.

[@wu8183]

Idk man. whenever someone says they have a preference for a race other than their own, it immediately raises eyebrows for me. ideally, you would see every race as equivalent in attractiveness regardless of your experiences with other races. your reasons may be "better", but sorry can't help but suspect weirdo vibes whenever a non-Asian person makes this statement

[@Darius-scifieart]

@@wu8183 For me personally it's always felt off talking to white or black folks. I was never welcomed by either group. And so I've never had a black friend. And only a single white friend in college. Most of the people I hang out with have always been Asian or Hispanic, by default. It's been this way since I was 5. That's what happens when you grow up going to schools that are over 55% Asian and 15% Hispanic. 6% mixed And just 2% black. That's just what the demographics of lower Manhattan are like. Me so far only having gone on dates with three Asian and one Hispanic girl isn't weird. And I never mentioned it was because of attractiveness. It's just a result of those same demographics reflecting the guys I hang out with.

[@streamerssaymyname]

10:50 this reminds me a little bit about why I left a leftist facebook group. Some racist POC like to argue that a mixed person isn't a POC if they don't like them/their arguments. I ended up getting into one subject because I am aware of the person they were talking about and said it's not right to question a mixed race persons authenticity just because you don't like them and they argued they had all the authority to do just that. Don't like a light skinned mixed race person? They are as good as a pure white person to them and need to shut up for "real" POC to speak.

[@itsbeebaby]

This made my heart hurt. As a black woman whose family immigrated here, my struggle is not yours but similar, not seeming black enough for the black community, too black to the white community, but too American for my family. It took a lot of unlearning and relearning (I used to relax my hair and wear colored contacts), but I got there, and I hope the same for you as well. I’m sure living in the Deep South doesn’t help, but I have faith in your healing and sending hugs 🤗

[@Luigi_Mario_1997]

I thought this debate and the contents being talked about were cringe. Mans just needs therapy, not a bearded Chad to psychologically joust him.

[@janitobomnito4289]

I've seen a lot of people going off on their own experiences because they're the most available information to them specifically but this was honestly uncomfortable to watch. He just projected the whole time and didn't seem willing to accept any other kind of information.

[@Chinesetakeout382]

This guy is just overflowing with a clear internalized racism about mixed people. I hate it because, as a mixed person myself, I definitely had a bit of an identity crisis because I don’t really fit into either of my races looks wise and culturally. But even with the issues around being mixed race, I would never give it up or never attempt to create a world where people like me don’t exist. It’s a part of who I am because of that struggle and the struggle has nothing to do with me being mixed inherently. I think we just have to be willing to call this attitude racist. This assumption about mixed race couples is racist and it does continue to feed the world he clearly struggled in and The one I did as well.

[@sortyourselfoutyoumess.8049]

It's actually insane... how much this guy sounds Lester from GTA.

[@menschgebliebenergossenpar9213]

Now I cant unhear ...

[@calmkat9032]

I think for the interracial relationships argument, pointing out the difference between "romantic" and "sexual" attraction would've been good. A relationship can start based on sex alone, then romance and sex, then just romance. Or you get both for the whole relationship. Or you never develop romance and break up when the attraction is gone.

[@darkcrystalmagik3369]

Except for this dude, he wouldn't have even understood what you mean by a "difference between romantic & sexual attraction"- bc he's demisexual- to him there IS no difference. I am demisexual as well, and to me what he said sounded exactly like what someone who is demisexual but has no awareness of that fact, & bc he is also autistic, he cannot imagine other ppl having different opinions & experiences.

[@admirallove6180]

I don't know how you can have this guy's life-perspective and conclude that we should give in to the bullies that harass interracial people.

[@jo0rd73]

Interesting that this is a topic someone felt the need to debate with you………

[@TheRedArrowHD]

I’m not sure why but it’s been a hot topic recently

[@crono276]

@@TheRedArrowHD Probably related to that tweet about bloodlines and race mixing

[@titaniawallace4223]

@@TheRedArrowHD Twitter went a little wild about it a few days ago

[@bananamerchant6387]

I understand what Vaush is saying. As a black man, I held the belief that I wasn't my skin color, but at the end of the day, my blackness determines a lot about me. It defines how I'm treated, my opportunities, and the causes I advocate for. But if you were to ask me how I felt about being black, I wouldn't have any strong feeling about it. I'm comfortable with that aspect of myself.

[@soapoperaslushy2853]

The only agreement I have to an extent with Tony is that the fetishizing is not true love thing, because for me I've often experienced as a black guy from many times alot of people, hell the other day on bumble I matched with some girl (white) first msg she sent was chocolate emoji and hungry emoji lmao like what do I even say to things like that. Often times they're upset and are turned off that I don't naturally speak with AAVE naturally and I'll get called Oreo. There's a difference between a preference and a fetish it's common I've noticed in the south I don't have a problem with a preference we all have them I've dated all kinds of races enjoyed everyone I've been with and everyone I will be with, interestingly enough I don't have any problems with things like race play in relationships, I would be a hypocrite since I'm into cnc. This is only for myself I can't speak for other relationships. But I feel if it's based off of a fetish for a long time it's entirely race based lust kinda like the white guys who wanna get an Asian wife ( not all, just the ones who actually fit the shoe) for a while until they find love for the person

[@flaskhjertako]

Sweet jesus, I really get that first bit. It's a bit different but that sounds like when I was ERPing with a gal (Listen, I was young and cringy that's not the point) and she hit me with the "Do you mind doing Jew/Nazi BDSM" and that shit hit me like a fuckin' flashbang. How the fuck do you respond to that other than saying "Nah" and ghosting Some people really fuckin' brave sayin' shit in DM's like it's not super concerning.

[@soapoperaslushy2853]

@@flaskhjertako I can't judge I did it a lot on highschool I know I still do a little here and there since I'm in college ain't no cringe in this community 😎unless it's (vaush's take on how to nod to people). omg I am so sorry 😭 I couldn't help but laugh at how out of pocket that would have been to hear omg but In all seriousness tho who would open with that o.o, like telling someone that is a good way to make the other person feel uncomfortable in the situation I feel like ethnic or race is something you discuss before hand if either party is interested in the subject. She might as well has just randomly called you Anne Frank in and Austrian accent 😭

[@keropi193]

I'm sorry you had to deal with rude people on dating apps like that. Fetishization is not ok. Also calling someone an oreo is so damn rude but so common where I went to school in TN. I feel like the only way to move past this is just more exposure to people of different races and backgrounds - dating or otherwise. Like when the dude in the vid describes attributing things to south asian women based on his very limited experience (esp in the south). I wonder if folks in more worldly/Metropolitan areas deal with as much shameless, surface-level fetishization. I also live in the south. After a bad breakup I met a dude on tinder who had red hair (my preference at the time). When he said "asian women are *superior* " (I'm mixed south asian) I noped outta there so hard lol. I don't think red haired men are "superior" I just think red hair is gorgeous.

[@somedudeok1451]

*OH PLEASE!* In the beginning I thought this guy might make some sense. But when he unironically said that interracial relationships are fetish-based and therefore less loving, he made a complete fool of himself. I am in an interracial relationship and so were my parents. I love my partner not because she has relatively pale skin (which is only one element I like about her), but because she's a great woman in many ways. And she loves me, because I'm a great guy - and contrary to me she doesn't even have even a little bit of a fetish for any race. I think what's going on here is that *HE* carries these weird beliefs about race which he fetishizes.

[@mitchellm3536]

My last relationship was interracial, and it wasn’t because of a fetish. It was a blind date that my friend set up and it went well. Genuinely curious what his parents were like.

[@aurorathedreamer9]

his one sided awkward laughs make me think that he's not used to people seriously debating him about these. they probably just say "yeah right whatever"

[@marykateandnoashley]

bro…preferences are not fetishization. people are attracted to different things and segregation bad. “it’s not love it’s more lust” when both partners are not the same race?? bro are you okay?? get off tinder and go to therapy

[@Romanticoutlaw]

huge self report

[@marykateandnoashley]

@@Romanticoutlaw i mean like ppl are saying it just seems like the guy has had shitty experiences and is projecting it all over the place hope they grow out of it

[@nackskott12]

I've only ever heard the “love not lust” thing from anti-gay weirdos before tbh, people saying “you don't feel real love, you only feel lust and have fallen into hedonism by lacking self-control” It's always massive projection

[@marykateandnoashley]

@@nackskott12 that’s so true omg, it is used for anything outside a heteronormative white nuclear family couple. “lust” was used an excuse for black men not to date white women throughout history too

[@lx4079]

racial fetishizing exists, the only thing he really did wrong was exaggerating how common it is, but it's absolutely a real thing

[@iamaloafofbread8926]

Being a foot long, 6 inches wide, and 6 inches tall, I just wantted everyone to know I dis-assembled and re-assembled a computer today with my loaffy nubs. Just so I can comment on here. :v

[@Warsmith_The]

kickass

[@Kropothead]

Any relation to the SCP known as “I am a toaster?”

[@Capnsb]

This sounds like the classic black problem where someone dates you with this perception of what they think a Black person should be and when you don't fit into their personal definition you are labeled as "not really black" causing them to lose interest

[@UlexiteTVStoneLexite]

Okay seriously does anyone else get the feeling that this is Ben Shapiro trying to disguise his voice and calling in and pretending to be half black?

[@jachariah4694]

Seriously? No. Non-seruously? Yes absolutely

[@UlexiteTVStoneLexite]

@@jachariah4694 lol

[@lilibieber98]

The point he was making about fetishizing certain groups does happen and is problematic, but he made it seem like that’s most interracial couples

[@ofanichan]

I hate how aggressive and bad faith Vaush's chat is from the first second someone comes in to debate.

[@KameoKit6963]

I can't wrap my head around this guy thinking interracial relationships are based on stereotypes or fetishes and therefore cannot be as loving. The mental gymnastics it takes to come to this kind of conclusion is just insane and deeply sad. Somehow this guy learned to hate himself, his parents and anyone vaguely like him. I do hope he gets help to deprogram this harmful thinking.

[@ciamciaramcia99]

Abortion isn't federally legal and we're having debates about miscegenation & interracial relationships. This country really seems to be devolving right now.

[@Onus6688]

This is one of my favorite Vaush segments of all time, I learned a lot lol

[@TheDerpyDunsparce]

This dude's voice sounds like a slightly lower pitch Ben Shapiro voice.

[@MilesRoseProductions]

IKR and then when he kept doing the Jordan Peterson impression it got even more surreal

[@But_Stuff]

I get the fetishizing bias I'm mixed black and white too. It really is strange the type of person that is drawn to me for just that. I use that to my advantage a lot but still weird

[@gilberthamilton9312]

It's a common reactionary rhetorical strategy to portray liking things they don't like as a fetish. They don't want those things normalized, so they assume the frame that those things must be some product of degeneracy. The subtly insidious thing here is that never does liking someone with the SAME skin color get brought up as a fetish.

[@superkingoftacos2920]

Well said

[@durgons749]

Damn, why's chat so mean? This guy was actually a good faith actor, had a point which was bad, which he conceded, then talked for a while.

[@justinstanger4033]

This guy should look up the term “Demisexual,” I think his life might make a bit more sense if he knew he was one!

[@bigdaddyaen]

The caller had a lot of issues others accurately point out, but it seems like he's trying to come from a good place, so all I'll say is bless this young man's heart.

[@JoeMama-tw6gu]

Idk just to put my two cents in, i’m mixed (black and white) and it really isn’t that big of a deal in my life. I’ve faced a lot of issues for being black, but not for being mixed bc like vaush said, racists don’t care if you’re mixed. Some of my family members didn’t like my mom marrying a white man but like, they never took that out on me, idk why they would bc well i’m black like the rest of them. The caller must have just had a really fucked up and racist family tbh

[@Phynellius]

I feel like the location you grow up would matter a lot

[@JoeMama-tw6gu]

@@Ass_of_Amalek yeah i’m from the south, specifically a SUPER white area. the black side of my family are like one of the main black families that have lived in my town since the olden days

[@sieg5857]

I feel like this person is surrounded by horrible people and this has negatively colored his perception of reality.

[@MrJonman247]

Speak for yourself, I came out of the womb kicking and screaming pure goth

[@melaniey.5596]

I gotta say, this is the first time I had seen someone use the “I’m color blind” argument to argue against interracial relationships. Which is incredibly frustrating. There is also the fact that he is saying that dating someone who meets my fetishes or has physical characteristics that I find pleasing, means that I don’t truly love them or that I’m incapable of loving them. Like what do I have to date someone who I’m completely physically unattracted to, to prove that it’s true love? Dude let me have standards.

[@kickpunch202]

Ok, I think I can speak on this as to why he has this confusion surrounding physical attributes and race in relationships. My dude is Demiromantic!!! I'm a demiromantic pansexual person with dysphoria, and this existentialism he's expressing about being seen/liked only by our outward physical characteristics is something I'm VERY FARMILIAR WITH.

[@kickpunch202]

I too was VERY weirded out by the ammount of people who looked for partners /exclusively/ within specific characteristic groups. Because that just isn't a thing for me. When approaching people, appearance is not a thing I even CONSIDER. I talk to a person and try to learn their sense of humor, their likes/interests, their perspective on the universe, their comfort foods/activities, ect. But all that really means in relation to other folks is that I /skip/ a step when looking for partners. Most people's starting point is physical attraction, my starting point is just further down the line.

[@ryanmccabe1036]

The self-hatred in this person makes me very sad.

[@captainChernihiv]

A therapist would make a fortune off this person. Seriously. So, so many deep, personal issues.

[@torphedo6286]

This is like saying that thinking someone is cute is a fetish for their facial structure... Isn't basically everything a fetish by this metric? At which point, what does it matter?

[@gallae]

haven't started the video yet but this is the best title on the channel and it's not even close

[@lordlubu3029]

The best part is the title gets funnier the deeper into the debate you go lmao

[@Sockimus]

This has been my favorite of your debates/discussions.

[@Neko1Trick]

I'm not sure how Vaush can sit down and listen to people say things like and not wanna die. This makes me so sad.