The Office: Why Pam's Confidence Journey Failed, Explained

[@thetake]

Thank you for watching! Which character's journey did you most relate to on The Office? Up next, check out our recent video unpacking the First Wife Trope (and how they're flipping the script): kzbin.info/www/bejne/m3LPXmN4bqunabs Or our new video analyzing awards darling Anora: kzbin.info/www/bejne/oJmQd5qMZsydf68

[@karrihart1]

I can’t stand how the other characters treat Pam. That’s my huge problem with The Office. Pam is the Meg Griffin of the show. Edit: And things would’ve been much worse for Pam (her painting of Dunder Mifflin being destroyed, Jim cheating on her) had Jenna Fischer and John Krasinski not put their feet down and said no to those storylines.

[@snakebite002]

It's a sitcom first and foremost though?

[@jordanpatton3622]

Yeah same I get it’s a comedy but I always felt so bad for her 😊

[@raidennc]

My wife doesn't like Pam because of her backsliding. But I think she is a very relatable (and somewhat tragic) character.

[@Soulful_Sorrow]

I love the dichotomy of these comments. Some people are saying Pam was the worst, some are saying she was a huge inspiration.

[@lexi7749]

I think it’s probably based on people who enjoy the first few seasons vs who watched the final seasons. I don’t watch past a certain season and I love her, but they really changed her character after season 5 or 6

[@rtothec1234]

She bailed the moment things got hard in spite of having a clear proclivity for art. Unfortunately, many people live lives like this. If you want to be good at anything you need to embrace the failures and let your love for the craft carry you through the struggles. Say what you will about Andy but he had conviction in his musical direction. It’s unfortunate they had him settle for an academic position in the finale. But honestly that’s what it takes to succeed.

[@MsNatiBug]

Proclivities for things don’t mean anything. The most talented artists (of all kinds, music, theatre, visual arts, dance etc) are all just doing something else. We don’t know them. It’s actually something super weird about American. I’m born and raised here, but from an immigrant refugee family. And I grew up in the most diverse neighborhood in the world (officially, as per Guinness world record) in Queens. I then moved to an upper middle class white suburban neighborhood in queens. That was the first time in my life I ever met untalented people. And they all would have like maybe ONE thing they could kinda sorta do well, and they swore this was their lifetime calling. Even though all immigrant kids of “good” families have to do all those things super well or be beaten up. But I came from a world where just to be a housewife you had to do everything really well. And no one was just a housewife Lmfao. All the women worked as well. Like everyone in my family plays music and does fine arts and sings supremely well, including opera. And my friends from early childhood who are all of immigrant parents all do too. I don’t mean every single person does every single artistic thing greatly; I’m saying we all have training in these things and then all have our fortes. When I moved to the white neighborhood it wasn’t until more Chinese and Koreans started moving in that I met more people that could do things again. wtf did you expect Pam to do with ART? Lmfao. Her best case scenario would have been getting into advertising or graphic design. And lose her health insurance lmfao. This isn’t Europe. People don’t get subsidized to go into the arts and have healthcare granted while honing their craft lol. How would she have SURVIVED?

[@cheesecake134]

@@rtothec1234 And she quit for a MAN. I know I know. Jim and Pam are soulmates and all that and she even said she was “coming back the wrong way” but I still hated it. Jim and Pam acted like they had been torn apart by war, but it was a 3 month long program 2 hours away. It’s genuinely kind of pathetic two adults couldn’t handle that. Their relationship was new but solid. I just wanted Pam to have SOMETHING of her own that wasn’t about Jim.

[@jamiefrontiera1671]

@@cheesecake134 i dont think it was quiting for man. I think that was a reasoning she told herself, but she wasn't doing as well as she thought she would, and was intimidated by the talent of the other people in the program. She was scared to learn she might fail. Also, it's a lot of money. I actually went to Pratt for my college degree (First as an architecture student and then i changed my major to construction management) Its a very expensive private college, pam probably didnt have any FAFSA for the summer program to help pay for it, and then living on campus is not cheap. She ran out of money and was working part time and dunder Mifflin corporate. True she could have found other programs around Pennsylvania. And I'm not saying she did the right thing, just that I dont think she quit for Jim.

[@samspotz8r8s]

I was so disappointed she dropped out of art school, and honestly, sad she had kids too. Like what’s said at 12:07 the writers sacrificed her arc for the status quo. (And imo, for Jim’s arc)

[@cheesecake134]

I always hated how the writers fast tracked Jim and Pam’s relationship once they got together. They couldn’t just date for a little while. They had to speed run into getting engaged, getting pregnant, getting married. It’s like the writers didn’t know what to do with them after the “will they won’t they” tension was gone so they just kept throwing milestones at them.

[@MsNatiBug]

@@cheesecake134that’s kinda how most people live their lives. The office, while truly hilarious and funny, was really just for the drones. About the drones and for the drones

[@cheesecake134]

@@MsNatiBug It’s really not though. Some people move that fast, but most of us do not. I think it would have been far more realistic to just let Jim and Pam date and be happy for a while. I feel like the writers didn’t know how to write that so they just raced to marry them, raced to make them parents, etc etc. We all knew they would end up married with kids eventually so it’s not like the writers needed to rush.

[@DarkEclipce]

People didn’t like it when Pam had a sense of self. They preferred when she was docile and put up with her dead end relationship

[@-NiamhWitch-]

I really, really relate to Pam.

[@pricemoore2022]

Same!!!!😊😊😊😊

[@rbrainsop1]

When you talk about Pam completely giving up all her dreams in the end while Jim gets everything he wants, that's a little disingenuous. You failed to mention that Jim did the same thing for her. He completely gave up his dream (forever, as far as he knew... he didn't know Pam would ever change her mind) in order to give her the life she wanted. So when she felt more comfortable and secure in his love (which was the real issue... not that her "dream" was a completely normal life working in a paper company in Scranton) she was ready to take the next step in their relationship together. One where they could _both_ be happy.

[@highwind1991]

I loved Pam. I really do. If anything. I think the problem with where her character goes and ends up is more to do with the fact that the show ran for a couple seasons longer than it probably should have.

[@batgurrl]

I loved Pam but when they created that storyline with Jim and his ‘dream job’ and Jim got so angry that she couldn’t record CeCe’s performance because she had two Small children to deal with alone, I got angry with Jim. If it was that important to him he could have made it his business to be there. I loved when she ‘created’ the job of office administrator for herself. The writers ruined her by making her a failed artist. I found her the most relatable character

[@jamiefrontiera1671]

no marriage is ever perfect 100% of the time. I do like that Jim realizes that he has to work on things, though i didn't agree with The Take's take that he took her for granted, except for this instance of him starting a new career. Also, sometimes we fail and we need to learn to grow. Not everyone who has talent for art is going to make a bunch of money. Sometimes we learn we create art for ourselves and just work to get it out there, but often we learn that after getting hit with a dose of reality. Sometimes people give it up, and come back to it later when they grow up. Also, she managed to get a mural in a public space which is hardly a failed artist, and at the end the redeemed her with her telling jim they were going to do the mathlede thing in Austin. When Jim says what about her art, she says austin as large art community there. The only way you are a failed artist is if you give it up and never do anyting ever again, and you die never trying it again. It's not like being an athlete where if you dont do in your 20's you're never going to go anywhere with it. I went to college for architecture, due to anxiety, insecurity and other things in my life, i changed my major to construction management. I went years without drawing a thing. Then I started drawing again, then i took a trip to Venice saw the scuola di rocco building, and got inspired to try wood carving. Without any idea if i would be good at, i tried it out 9 years after i graduated college. I found out i love it. But i also told myself, success in this wasn't going to be about how much money i made, but that i enjoyed what i did and stretched my creativity.

[@RChenaux]

@@jamiefrontiera1671thank you for saying that. I’m also an artist. I changed careers to pursue it seriously and the current economy really put a knife into my plans. And I’m a good artist. Not a great one, but I did get commercial work for a while and had opportunities open to me until recently. I’m seeing a lot of my friends and mentors lose their jobs, entire departments have been laid off, and many of us are considering new career paths. I myself am switching back to my old career. I feel like a failure a lot of days I wake up and clock into my non art job. But recently, I’ve started drawing again for myself, without the pressure of making a portfolio, or having my livelihood hinge off of it, and I’m happy to create again. It might not make it past making things for friends and family or local galleries, but I’m happy. And I have to keep reminding myself I’m not a failure just because I’m not working for Disney right now or maybe ever.

[@Classymdu.]

She is the most relatable person ❤

[@wongles]

Pam is the only relatable character in the show, and actually much more relatable than any characters in most other shows. I just wish I had a Michael (though I’d rather be single than have a Roy or Jim that suck)

[@jamiefrontiera1671]

Thank you! Honestly you can almost tell the ages of people by the comments. Those that have the arrogance of youth vs those that have wisdom from living and are at least no longer in their 20's and early 30's.

[@pricemoore2022]

Pam is the MVP in The Office!!!!!!😊😊😊😊😊😊😊

[@MsNatiBug]

I always felt that IRL guys that say they love Pam are the biggest red flags in the world. They just want a whatever to pay half the bills and bear their boring kids and never do anything with their lives.

[@jamiefrontiera1671]

how old are you? your opinion is that of someone that is awfully young and doesnt know what she is talking about. grow up. and then when youre in your 30s and 40s look at this comment and you'll see pam did stuff with her life, she didnt do nothing. Also, then maybe you'll learn that you dont have to have everything accomplished by the time your 30. This show ends with pam either 30 or in her early 30's. There is so much more life out there, and so much more time to figure your shit out, try new things, fail at more things, succeed at new things. Your life has not failed if you dont do it in your 20's.

[@shoyuramenoff]

It depends on how you like her though. If you want the best for her and feel sad she doesn't get it, that's understandable. But if you want someone you feel like you can control, that's where it goes wrong.

[@LeeLe412]

Jim is not comperable to Roy in any way, it's like The Take didn't watch the show at all. He was a great husband who gave up his dream job for her, refused to cheat on her, pushed her to do art even though they would have to be long distance (he even proposed during this time!), he was happy when they found out about the unexpected pregnancy, he kept reminding her how much he loves her and made dramatic and romantic gestures to make sure she understood. Both Jim and Pam tend to throw themselves into situations way over their heads without thinking when they get motivated and are similiar that way, which is how he ended up getting a house and a job without discussing it with Pam first and Pam quit her job at Dunder Mifflin to join Michael. The second he realized this might break their relationship, he gave up the job for a year and wasn't thinking of going back to it until Pam initated it. Bad take, The Take

[@buffytheinternetbullyslayer]

I think there are different ways to see jim. He also relentlessly persuaded Pam while in a committed relationship (regardless if it’s good or bad). Thought winning a basketball game would make her “choose” him over her fiancé. Stopped speaking to her completely because she didn’t want to date him and stopped being her friend. It truly seemed like Him’s “friendship” was dependent on them eventually becoming a couple. Which says (to me) he was never truly her friend. Just playing “the long game”

[@LeeLe412]

@ I don't remember him not being friends with her, the only time he got mad at her before getting together was when she kept coming up with excuses to not go to art school. The basketball wasn't about making her "choose", it was about impressing her and being competitive with Roy, who threatened to beat him (and accused him of cupping a feel) in front of the entire office and literally hit him during the game. They both flirted with each other all the time and his friendship with her was genuine. The second she rejected him he said: "it's not your fault", when she thought she mislead him and he left the place entirely instead of "relentlessly persuading" her. She never rejected his advances and it was obvious she was not in a healthy or happy relationship o begin with. They never crossed the line, something pretty much all the other characters in the office did do (Angela, Stanley, Michael, Dwight, Oscar, etc)

[@cheesecake134]

@@buffytheinternetbullyslayer Jim also had a habit of doing big things without consulting Pam. He bought a whole ass house without talking to her. And the writers seemed to truly think these were grand romantic gestures worthy of adoration. They literally didn’t have Pam call it out until the last season!

[@Maria-tp2ov]

Sorry but the bar must be on the ground if we consider not cheating on your spouse, supporting your spouse and being happy about a pregnancy as being a great husband. That's just a bare minimum.

[@LeeLe412]

​@@Maria-tp2ov have you seen the office? Yeah, the bar is pretty low. But Jim supresses even higher bars. You also seem to skim over some details: He was happy about a pregnancy before they were even married, an unexpected pregnancy that might have naturally scared a few men, but he was elighted. He also pushed her to study even though that would have kept them far apart and even proposed during that time, he helped with the kids and made sure she got days off when she wanted, he dressed up in a costume he hated because it meant a lot to her, made a romantic video for her, made sure to verbally confirm how much she means to him, he quit his dream job for her and always put her first on his priority list (and literally made a list to show prove it to her). Jim created an entire new bar.

[@espifreak]

This video reminds of The Last Five Years. It's this devastating musical where a man gets everything he wants and his girlfriend flounders and tags along for the ride. They grow to resent each other and they divorce. It is relatable... I'm Pam in a lot of ways, except i never succeeded at finding someone. At least moving to Philadelphia will shake her out of her rut and her story can be open-ended.

[@jamiefrontiera1671]

actually at the end they move to austin not philadelphia.

[@loulie1997]

She decided to quit art school because she found her relationship made her happier than pursuing a degree. Nothing wrong with that. She seized the opportunity for office administrator, which is much more hands on a diversified work than a receptionist, so not really backsliding there, and she was eager to succeed and thrilled by the prospect of work she was good at and an increase in pay. Sounds like going after something you want to me. She was quite adamant about the things she wanted with Jim in the later seasons. She supported his dreams until they started to take a significant toll on her family and started to disrupt her own dreams, which was to be a loved and loving wife and mother. Also nothing wrong with those roles of that’s what you want. She stood her ground against Jim’s selfishness, and him giving up his dream to be more present and devoted to her gave her the strength to reassess her life, so they could both find more happiness in Philly. Doesn’t seem very passive to me, that’s proactive and growth. You guys made some good points in this one, but I think failing upwards is a much more apt description of her journey than backsliding

[@biljam972]

i actually don't like Erin. She is like a charicature of a person, I mean, most of them are, but she is the worst! While Angela and Dwight are at least honest and open about who they are, even when they are horrible, Erin plays cute little pretty girl, while mostly treating others like crap. She was terribly mean to Pam multiple times and she was awful to Holly basically calling her "ugly", she broke up with Gabe in front of everyone, while insulting him and his personality literally on mike! Everyone is hard on Pam but she is most relatable person in series. Most of others are just awful! Especially to her.

[@daniellesene7574]

its like the show the office itself loves Jim and loves pam and Jim (as a unit) but just does not love pam... but I love pam anyways.

[@allabarkan671]

Great video!!

[@MikeBaxterABC]

Watching clips form the Office makes me feel sad .. all my memories are sad ones :(

[@Neontheunkown456]

Why I hate office no one puts in the work or gives it their all or could take fallout of bad luck and breaks

[@fairy452]

I'm feeling very attacked right now lmao

[@jolie08]

She is the seemingly modest, quiet "pick me" type. I can't stand her.

[@2kooldancin]

I remember being the only person that liked the Pam and Brian storyline and was interested in a potential 180 of her life. I felt she was justified in leaving Jim for Brian and I was rooting for her to get a backbone and stick w/ it. Take the kids and go on her merry way. I stopped liking Jim when I noticed how he would constantly take her for granted just like Roy. As someone else mentioned, she’s incredibly tragic and almost Shakespearean in the way she is written.

[@jamiefrontiera1671]

Not sure i agree with you entire take on pam on this one.

[@Adrianafaith123]

Always..the devil you know..

[@konstantinpobedonotsev5589]

Pam is a bad person

[@neuro.weaver]

Pam's character was a typical vulnerable narcissist. She cheats on both her fiance (with Jim), and then her husband Jim (with the boom guy). She fails in everything she tries, and yet she operates under the delusion she is still better than everyone around her and looks down on them. She marries Jim lying to him about who she truly was (remember the Cordrae Halloween episode?) thinking she is trading up, only to try to sabotage his success with his new company. Pam was a very dangerous role model for quiet girls.

[@batgurrl]

She did not cheat on Roy and did NOT cheat on Jim. You speak like someone who never had any relationship at all.

[@ThePunctuationLady]

SECOND, yeah!

[@SAHMamang]

First 🎉

[@ThePunctuationLady]

hahah I´m second wheee!

[@richboyprado]

Pam was the worst

[@kendallmasterssank369]

Pam is the most boring character

[@robinita46853]

This take is pretty hyper individualist ngl

[@Gxldxn95]

Pam is lame. She always takes me out of the show. She's such a everyone look at me type. Everyone praise my mediocrity cause I peaked in hs

[@AA-cf4es]

lol you sound gay