The ONE THING about Home One that MAKES NO SENSE!

The Length of Home One in Star Wars Legends and Star Wars Canon makes no sense, and is generally inconsistent with the movies. We discuss that and more on today's Star Wars Lore video!
Music: Fourge -- Velvet 2600 // Home -- Above All / All At Once
***
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[@EckhartsLadder]

*Stream tonight:* kzbin.info

[@armyman-ig7qs]

Stop using arrows circles boxes etc it really doesn’t help the video we have eyes

[@Bobbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb]

Cameron pc gamer Yes it does it shows you what you should be looking for

[@Bobbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb]

#AskEck Why doesn’t the Rookie talk in ODSTs

[@HacksignKT]

hey the fighting at 2:34 what game is it from? thx

[@jangounchained5279]

LOL !!! Wookiepedia is changed, Home One was 3km long while other MCs were 1200m ( as it was written in game EaW 1 ). It was changed and made smaller in EaW2FoC...

[@fredplayz8610]

After ages of watching you still love hearing the intro music 😁

[@australianjames1114]

Just kinda suits his style. 👍👍👍

[@personguy9633]

Its something I will never get tired of

[@liltaco223]

Fr

[@rishibricks5934]

Ikr

[@angelbeatzbell4057]

Been watching his channel since his first video and yeah it’s too true

[@themrfives]

"Home one this gold leader, your ship makes no sense."

[@anotherepic8757]

Home 1, your shorter than I expected

[@ericbrown8479]

"I was in the pool!!"

[@Arashmickey]

Even a bacta tank won't save you from that burn. In fact it'll make it worse...

[@derlasercrafterwally4342]

@@anotherepic8757 so underrated

[@captainyolowaffle3160]

“We’re gonna bomb you”

[@SuicideNeil]

Eck: this ship size makes no sense! Klingon Bird of Prey: _Hello there_

[@quantummaniac5]

LMAO. I just made basically the same post about Stargate ships.

[@GhalidiusTrident]

ah yes the ship the size of an aircraft carrier that flies like a fighter jet

[@digitalis2977]

@@GhalidiusTrident It isn't so much that is "flies like a fighter jet" as "the pilot is flying it like what they know." Put a Fighter Jock in a space ship and he's going to....fly it like an airplane.

[@scottlloyd9762]

yes it is so bad in scaling there are at least 2 cannon sizes. one for the small size and one for the cruiser size.

[@zzzxxc1]

Pillar of Autumn: Amateur

[@Jessie_Helms]

In Empire at War the Home One was pretty small but they made it like twice as large in Forces of Corruption

[@maplemirage7522]

The Forces of Corruption size is probably the most satisfying size too tbh, about the length of 2 ISDs is just right, not too big not too small

[@jangounchained5279]

Or the other way around.? Big in EAW1 and smaller in FOC ? 🤷🏻‍♂️ i forgot, but it was 3km long - double the size of MC Liberty ships...

[@TheRezro]

They turn it in MC85 basically.

[@RedXlV]

@@maplemirage7522 I've always felt that having Home One at roughly double length of an ISD (and because shape, also roughly double the internal volume) seemed the most fitting. And it's conveniently right in the range of length possible from the on-screen appearance in ROTJ, which is a plus.

[@Arashmickey]

The explanation for the various inconsistencies is simple: Mon Cals and Death Stars are inflatable, Satar Destroyers and SSDs are unfoldable.

[@kimleechristensen2679]

Uhmm Satan is not spelled as Satar 😏 But it could be cool that some larger Star Destroyers had NATO like call names such as Satan 😊😊😊

[@A-Forty3707]

What is this comment?

[@thomaseasley2938]

Mild absurdity

[@rudysmith1445]

I love this idea XD 10/10

[@ckhpersonal670]

Satan destroyer

[@WOLFxLORD]

"Sci-fi writers have no sense of scale." What else is new. I've long since stopped relying on official numbers in most sci-fi settings, because very rarely do they ever make sense. If it looks big it's big.

[@OutspokenSeeker]

The titans in 40k have it real bad. So many authors argue that the largest class of titan is 54 metres. But every piece of artwork shows those classes eclipsing that scale by multiple times. Maybe even resting at the 200-300 metre range. That's the problem with Sci fi writers and artists in general, no matter how talented they are, they are several creative minds working on one source that has to be consistently accurate. And some writers want to draw attention away from a ship or a battle, whereas another will portray that same subject as one of the greatest frigates of its time, or the turning battle in a war. We fans just gotta trust our eyes and brains when it comes to this stuff.

[@andymac4883]

Like the original stated sizes and tonnages for warships in the Honor Harrington series, which from what I hear would give most of the ships a density roughly on par with cigar smoke.

[@LOKJAV]

7:59 This is the beginning of flat death star society

[@Restilia_ch]

Last time I was this early the Rakata were still an empire.

[@blackshogun272]

OtakuMage last time I was this early the Killiks hadn't warned the galaxy about the return of the Old Ones...

[@thebeanman99]

Your pfp made me cry again ;-;

[@gamerpro9809]

Taung and zhell still fighting on coruscant (neutron) wayy earlier.

[@rudysmith1445]

This got a smile out of me, nice one!

[@govimodo9231]

Weren’t the originals physical models? That should give a guide if they still exist

[@Benjamin0119]

They do still exist. If the scale they are built to is known, their size could be determined. Pablo found the mini Star Destroyer model that was built scale to the Executor and found the Executor would be 13 km and not the 17-19 size, going by that. But we need to know what scale they are built to, or have a model of a ship we concretely know the size of that is built to same scale and get the size from that.

[@eds1942]

They weren’t made to scale.

[@Benjamin0119]

@@eds1942 Not to each other, but each ship was built to a certain scale.

[@Benjamin0119]

@@okankyoto Yeah I would like to think the information is there somewhere in the Lucasfilm archives, even if just for the blueprints or instructions or whatever for each model. But yeah, things can get fudgy with artistic license and setting up shots etc. I honestly never noticed the lack of curvature on the Death Star when the Executor crashes. But for years I was watching the old 4:3 VHS version haha.

[@samtheweebo]

The problem with the models is the fact that many of them were done to different scales for different scenes. It was always done kind of rule of cool focusing on what looked good or got emotion into the scene. No one sat there and measured things out to make sure everything was scaled correctly. Another thing to note is that almost every fighter and ship was filmed separately and then composited together so even things like where the camera is supposed to really be is off. Sometimes ships are stretched, or crushed, or overlaid when they are supposed to be behind. But they still managed to make a film with ships that feel perfectly consistent and it's difficult to notice the scale issues on a casual viewing.

[@BoisegangGaming]

"Headquarters Frigate" "Corellian Battleships" >MFW a battleship is smaller than a Frigate Ah, Star Wars. Your silly, pulpy nonsense about ship classification remains baffling even today and I kind of love it.

[@Benjamin0119]

I mean, they are huge, but Star Destroyers are probably just called that because it sounds better than Star Battleship. :P

[@sosogo4real]

Munificent Battleships.

[@whitneylackenbauer9782]

Boisegang to be fair, in lore it is explained that the errors come from different species naval traditions, which have varying classes. Under the anaxes war college system the home one is a star destroyer too. Essentially a star destroyer is anything from 1000 to 2000 meters in length.

[@PoorFoxface]

I know the naming is 99.99% certain to have been what sounded good at the time, but if we really want to play devil's advocate and justify the nonsense, we can look beyond the modern definitions and cherry pick one that fits from the past. This isn't too hard because the meanings of ship classifications have been very inconsistent throughout the centuries, and in particular "frigate" is one of the least consistent ship classes of all time. Before our modern meaning of "small warship", it's meant so many different things that at one point or another ships called "frigates" looked more like battleships, cruisers, ironclad warships, corvettes or destroyers. In such a rich and contradictory history, it's not that hard to find some BS "explanation" for Home One being a battleship-sized "Headquarters Frigate". 17th Century frigates were any ship built to be fast and manoeuvrable for their size, which is a definition that could explain Home One / HQ Frigate being larger than a battleship. Most ironclads were called frigates because of how they had their main guns laid out (one one or two continuous decks) but were at the time the most powerful warships ever built. I don't know enough about Home One's specific weapon layout to know if that applies (especially since the wiki states multiple wildly contradictory armaments), but that could also explain it. If you subscribe to the idea that Home One / HQ Frigate is cruiser-sized, there's also the huge number of "Guided Missile Frigates" the US built between 1950 and 1975, which were basically cruisers in all but name (and were, in fact, later reclassified as cruisers). Maybe the Rebel Alliance or the Mon Cal themselves are just stubborn and refuse to stop calling it what they've always called it. Ignoring the real world entirely, it's also possible that the "Headquarters Frigate" name was simply a codename intended to trick Imperial spies into thinking Ackbar was operating from a small, nimble but weak ship (which might seem plausible given the Rebellion's love for opportunistic hit-and-run strikes) when the reality was very different. I personally like this explanation the best, since it feels internally consistent with Star Wars itself, rather than relying on historical nerdery. The Star Destroyer also kinda works if you work from the fact that Destroyer was originally short for "Torpedo Boat Destroyer". Their specific purpose has changed over time, but Destroyers have always been designed and built to destroy vessels smaller than themselves, and the ISD's armament consisting of loads of turbolasers fits this purpose pretty well. They rain down overwhelming quantities of fire on starfighters and smaller ships like Mon Cal cruisers or Nebulon-B frigates, and guard larger vessels and structures like the Death Stars or Executor (although obviously that doesn't work out well for them). Of course, their sheer size in the SW universe is closer to a battleship, their primary purpose is as much carrier as it is warship, and their use as solitary, long-range patrol ships fits the role of a cruiser (although destroyers also do patrol work), so take this with a pinch of salt. At the end of the day, though, they may be huge carrier-warship hybrids, but they do still fulfill the basic role of a destroyer: destroy stuff smaller than itself.

[@Zekiraeth]

Yeah, when I can't remember the class of a ship I just use cruiser, since apparently everything is a cruiser.

[@martinlaird4738]

I’ve always put Home one in my head as 3.2km long like it was meant to be in Star Wars Empire at War FoC. It makes so much more sense and looks awesome

[@chrissonofpear1384]

Me too, or perhaps 3.1.

[@Sin526]

Yep, and this is what the actual model scalings and on screen measurements suggest

[@michaelramon2411]

I am seeing an awful lot of the classic "length = power" fallacy here. Home One is a dense, cylindrical ship that gives it a lot of room to pack in power generation and shields. It serves as the pinnacle of the Rebel fleet not because it is massively long, but because it's a tanky SOB that can punch above its length.

[@vipergtsrgt1]

So Home One may not have the length of an ISD, but it makes up for it with girth.

[@Sin526]

It's supposed to be at least 3km long, they made a mistake

[@kennethferland5579]

Is your argument then that "volume = power" cause while that's certainly better, it still lacks a technology component. Just as we would expect a total displacement value for a WWII warship to tell us more then length alone, knowing the year of construction would be a critical factor too.

[@michaelramon2411]

@@kennethferland5579 The lore about Mon Calamari technology indicates that their technology for power and shield generation is top-notch. So I was adding that in to my assessment that their top-tier ship would be extremely hardy even if it was physically smaller than many of its rival ships.

[@Miron_Marnic]

@@Sin526 I think that if both canon and legends say that it's 1.3 km long, that's just how it is.

[@ryansargent661]

They’ve changed ship sizes on me so often since I first saw Star Wars in 1981, I’ll just go with what seems right, otherwise you end up with ships that have Tardis like interiors or whatever the opposite of that is

[@MrChickennugget360]

with starwars you have to do that because so much of the lore has been screwed up and half the writers don't really care regardless.

[@Sheilawisz]

I think it's crazy that a 1300 meters ship is regarded as small in most space fantasy settings, while in reality such a ship would be huge and super difficult to build.

[@DovaDude]

Scale of construction changes with far more advanced technology and far more people and worlds to support your industry

[@Sheilawisz]

@@DovaDude Still a 1300 meter ship should be big enough, in fact it would be easier and better to build ten 400 meter ships instead of one that is a mile long. What would be the purpose of multi-kilometer ships? That’s more like a city with engines.

[@DovaDude]

@@Sheilawisz Square cube law, More reactors, way more fighters, more shields, and more supplies. The better reactors can give increased firepower and allow the hull to actually be filled with turbolasers, instead of the small amount of small sized guns you see normally on star wars ships above a kilometer.

[@Sheilawisz]

@@DovaDude Well, it makes sense, at least in Star Wars. I am more of a fan of smaller, though still big, ships.

[@craig42069]

I always just thought of home one as a custom slightly larger mon cal. Those scenes in jedi looked to me like they were flying super close.

[@chrissonofpear1384]

Shots do tend to vary, yeah, but there is a flyby shot from behind when it looks around 1.5 times bigger, no more.

[@Miron_Marnic]

@@chrissonofpear1384 To me, maximum size of the Home One is 1.6 km long, no more.

[@chrissonofpear1384]

@@Miron_Marnic Well, you can see the starboard hangar is nearly twice as high as the Imperial shuttle that leaves it. It's also around 29 times shorter than the model, according to size views. So that puts it well over two kilometres, just from that. Also, Rebels shows concept art for the one time a Home One class ship appeared, scaling it to around 1.9 km. Although as it never appeared close by to any ship on the show, it's impossible to be sure, in that case.

[@Seraphil1]

When it turns out it's actually 3.1km long and the whole mess has been a clerical error that they double downed on...

[@DIEGhostfish]

Saxton's powerlevel scaling based on physics is generally setting breaking, but his plain old geometry is hard to argue against.

[@tucmakukla]

My main issue is that sometimes his calculations rely on taking a hyperbole at face value (Impstar and Base Delta Zero based calculations). I mean to me "Bombing a civilized world to slag" is the same as current "Bombing back to stone age", not"melting the surface of planet" (after all if every of your 25,000 ISDs can effectively kill a planet within 24 hours, much more excruciatingly than simple "zap-boom" of Death Star... Why bother with the Death Star at all?)

[@thegreenmanofnorwich]

I tend to agree that his geometric analysis and his painstaking analysis of the footage is pretty compelling. To me, it reminds me of the 8km size debacle with the Executor.

[@DIEGhostfish]

@@tucmakukla It is a true glassing for most worlds, but an ecumenopolis will still need ground invasion. The issue was himntaking Slagging to mean "going so far beyond glassing there aren't even silicates left, only melted metal from deeper stone layers."

[@vidarDJ16starkill]

I have never understood why people thought the Home One was super large or anything. It always seemed smaller than an ISD and honestly just seemed like a Liberty without the wings. But more importantly, it SHOULD be small. I think it fits the underdog feel of the Rebel Alliance, that even their "big ships" are still smaller than the Empire's, but regardless they continue to fight on etc etc. Plus it would make sense that Rebel ships would be smaller so that they wouldn't have to have as large of a crew, require less maintenance and such.

[@SJHFoto]

Another valid point.

[@chrissonofpear1384]

You'd have to take it up with whoever made the hangar super small in comparison to the model, I guess. Maybe they did not know what the hangar interior was like, at time?

[@velocitymg]

Weren’t the Mon Calamari ships mostly just luxury cruise ships and liners converted for military use, kinda like the hospital ships of WW II...I remember reading they were civilian ships pressed into service from somewhere?

[@Miron_Marnic]

@@velocitymg Mc 75 were buildings, but you are correct.

[@thegreenmanofnorwich]

There is a wingless version of the liberty. You can tell it isn't like the home one, because the engine configuration is much the same as the liberty, but with an extra thruster.

[@scottthewaterwarrior]

Holds apart the thumb and pointer finger "That ship is this big" - Galaxy Quest.

[@lorenzorezzara4542]

Wasn’t Home One once a city tower on Mon Cala? That would explain the size a bit

[@Kreschavier]

All of the Mon Cala ships were city buildings. Literally

[@Miron_Marnic]

@@Kreschavier Wrong. Mc 80 were merchant and space exploration vessels. Mc 75 were buildings.

[@Kreschavier]

@@Miron_Marnic took you long enough

[@RedXlV]

I've always thought that Home One at 3.2km (exactly double the lenght of an ISD and roughly the same width) made the most sense. And that Executor should be 11 times the length of an ISD, 17.6km instead of 19km. Having Executor and Eclipse be the same length and Eclipse simply be far more massive because of a wider and deeper hull also seems more fitting.

[@chrissonofpear1384]

Makes sense, although it is VERY hard to get the Executor to seem less than 17 km long, in many comparison shots.

[@guacamole9199]

In my head I've just always pictured the Home One to be 25-30% larger than an ISD. Mainly because of the bulkyness and also because we'll as you said it's their flagship and you always picture some sort of size dominance in a flagship when compared to the rest of the fleet. Cheers Eck always enjoy the videos!!

[@khadenallast4495]

Specifically because it was their flagship, I always felt that Home One should be noticeably shorter than an ISD. You expect the flagship to be the best of what the respective Navy has, but we're talking about a rag-tag rebellion here. It makes sense they would have difficulty matching, let alone exceeding, the main "ship of the line" of the Imperial Navy. To me at least.

[@plektosgaming]

Pause at 7:31 in the video. That's the size comparison. They are much much larger than an ISD.

[@Kurayamiblack]

I always figured Home One types were the same length as Liberties with some special cases being a bit longer and the "Home One" particularly being one of the larger variants. I figure the official lengths only mention standard lengths for that ship type and the "Home One" itself (since these are repurposed exploration cruisers) was the largest custom unit ever built which is why the Rebels decided to pimp that one out as a mobile headquarters.

[@Benjamin0119]

If you really pay attention to the movie you can see Home One is HUGE, going by flybys, shuttle, docking bay, other ships. About twice the length of a Star Destroyer. The Liberty class with the wings is the one that is just smaller than the wedge section of a Star Destroyer without the superstructure. There is a shot of one in a broadside against a Destroyer that confirms this. Unfortunately, no such shot of a Home One class and Destroyer duking it out, or this could have been put to bed a long time ago.

[@chrissonofpear1384]

@@Benjamin0119 Yes, Liberty-class is between 1 and 1.5 km long, in various comparison shots (Y-Wing, ISD broadside) Model scales of the kits at time support either 1513 m, or 1220 m, too.

[@d_valroth]

Home One is Liberty sized and absolutely smaller than an ISD in the Armada tabletop game as well. It's hard to know exactly what FFG was working off of though as they also have an "Interdictor" which is neither an Immobilizer-418 nor an Interdictor Star Destroyer, but some bizarre hybrid of the two. (Or possibly it's a Disney canon vessel I am unfamiliar with) At least in Armada Home One has a broadside which is basically as mean as an ISD's forward convergence, and a lot easier to line up a shot with, in addition to excellent shields, so they do make a case for it being a powerful ship, if not a particularly massive one. (It's also variously implied that ISDs and especially SSDs are overbuilt as a part of the Tarkin Doctrine, and that Wessex basically made them way bigger than they needed to be just to make them imposing. Contrast the ISD with her father's Victory design.)

[@chrissonofpear1384]

@@d_valroth The Interdictor used is from the Rebels cartoon, based on Immobilizer concept art, but scaled up to over 1129 metres long, per the hangar interior (which was a reused element from the cartoon's ISD bay)

[@tobytheshipposter8735]

I always wonder why the Home one looks so big in thrawns revenge when its really only around the size of a star destroyer.

[@Spartan086]

Toby The shipposter its shorter, actually

[@DarkSapiens]

It makes me happy whenever I see the mod has the actual Home One size from the film instead of the listed one, hahaha

[@Benjamin0119]

No, it's twice the length of a Star Destroyer. Watch the movie again and go to Star Wars Technical Commentaries. The Libety class with the wings is the one that is slightly smaller than a Star Destroyer.

[@Sin526]

@@Benjamin0119 This

[@Miron_Marnic]

@@Benjamin0119 No. It's smaller.

[@juicebox9465]

Since Star Wars was supposed to be taken from "the journal of the whills" and since it happened "a long long time ago" so little things that don't make sense are just parts of the story that have been lost to time.

[@BoisegangGaming]

Hasn't Star Wars always had a problem with scale? The Executor is either 5km or 15km long, and one of those doesn't match its on-screen appearance. Same thing with the Home One, I assume. A lot of it likely just has to do with how the filming models were used and how the scale of them ended up, or that there was a misstatement of its actual length in some old source book and that's just become accepted now.

[@odeonarsenal6597]

No in screen it does look 19.1 km same goes with Home one

[@paulrasmussen8953]

@@odeonarsenal6597 nope. 8km is the most logical

[@odeonarsenal6597]

@@paulrasmussen8953 nope 19km is makes more sense

[@paulrasmussen8953]

@Sakkra101 is is officially 1.6 km executor is 8km si still dwarfs. And matches close.to what we see

[@Julian-pw5mv]

@@paulrasmussen8953 8 km? That is only the length of 5 isd's. I am too lazy to measure this, but even when the isd is in front of the executor(meaning the executor is further away, so it would appear smaller) it is much smaller than 5x as short. It looks to me more like 10 times shorter.

[@sharko4093]

Hey Eck, this image was released after the Rebels episode where we saw a cameo from Home One in the rebel fleet over Dantooine. It shows Home One being around 5-10% longer than an ISD lumiere-a.akamaihd.net/v1/images/318-bts-gallery-03_323da56d.jpeg

[@chrissonofpear1384]

Or, going by exact pixels, some 1920 to 1930 metres long.

[@Kingofdragons117]

@@chrissonofpear1384 I believe the number was around 1800 meters in Rebels.

[@sharko4093]

@@Kingofdragons117 That makes sense to me

[@chrissonofpear1384]

@@sharko4093 I recall Jedi Council forums did exact count, and it came out around 1920 m, yes.

[@chrissonofpear1384]

Since the ship never appears up close, in episode though, it's kind of only quasi canonical, at present.

[@dtgamerk9670]

My head cannon (for whatever reason) tells me Home One should be 1.5 - 2 ISDs long at a minimum. I agree it should not be shorter than an ISD.

[@plektosgaming]

7:31 to about 7:41 shows the length and width difference in the actual models. Much fatter, and much longer.

[@jedrzejkoszewski4342]

Please, make a video about civilian ships, like transporters, passenger cruisers or private ships.

[@thorshammer7883]

#AskEck The United Earth Alliance Omega Class Destroyer *(Babylon 5)* vs the UNSC Marathon-Class Heavy Cruiser *(Halo).*

[@TheCHRILLCAST]

I love the fact that Google Auto Captions your intro as “Hello, this is Eckhart Slaughter...” haha cracked me up.

[@Futuretense101]

I always was under the impression Home One was around 3 Kilometers in length in Canon and Legends. 1,300 meters is too small. Meh...

[@Benjamin0119]

It is supposed to be about twice the length of a Star Destroyer, given how it is portrayed on film, going by flybys, shuttle, docking Bay, grouped with other ships etc. It would be nice if we had a shot of it from the film next to a Star Destroyer, but unfortunately we never got that.

[@chrissonofpear1384]

@@Benjamin0119 I currently assume it's like 2.9 to 3.1 km, currently - a compromise between the hangar dimensions and comparison shots near other ships.

[@chrissonofpear1384]

Nebulon-B frigate also remains a problem for internal volume, as even at 400 metres, say, it would struggle to fit a full dozen. Model comparison with Falcon miniature docked allows no larger than 338 m, now, by current Falcon scale, also.

[@darksavant3571]

Hope everyone stays safe!

[@Jessie_Helms]

#AskEck when you don’t do an Ask Eck for a video, is it typically because you didn’t see a good question, didn’t have time to edit one in, or something else?

[@Sin526]

Ahh Eck, this took me back to the old Spacebattles.net days... I mean, of course Home One isn't 1.3km, it's obviously supposed to be at least a battle cruiser of sorts acting as a Flagship, which would mean it would at least have to be bigger and more powerful than a "standard" Mon cal cruiser or else why go with it as the Flagship?

[@x3tc1]

Glorious SB.net times!

[@michaelramon2411]

What's that old saying? "Size matters not"? You can be a denser ship with better power generation, shields, armor and command & control systems without being longer.

[@chrissonofpear1384]

@@michaelramon2411 I tend to assume 2.9 to 3.1 km long, these days, as 3.8 km, whilst possible, does FEEL a bit too long.

[@kjhuang]

At 1300 meters the Home One was longer than most MC80s which were typically 1200 meters. Also there's no rule that a flagship has to be the longest ship. For example Grand Admiral Pellaeon deliberately chose the relatively small Bloodfin as his last flagship.

[@andymac4883]

Could be simply because it has better capabilities to support the command and control of multiple ships and starfighter wings in large-scale fleet engagements. Besides, I think there's something to be said for the flagship not being the biggest or meanest ship in a fleet. Being bigger than everything else makes it an obviously higher-value target, and being stronger means it would be better suited for the front lines and highest intensity areas of an engagement, which is probably not where you want the Admiral to be.

[@Strand0410]

This is a non-issue. Until the Starhawk, the large rebel cruisers were retrofitted city and mercantile ships. They weren’t dedicated warships built from the Empire’s bottomless budget, and logically weren’t as large. The Alliance relied on its strong starfighter corps to win the war, not cruisers. Also, on-screen models are janky af. Don’t rely on them. There’s a shot in Jedi with a Nebulon B alongside an ISD, and there’s a teeny tiny CR90 in the foreground because of a layering error.

[@kubli365]

... Okay?

[@Benjamin0119]

Ok but the Home One was still huge, twice the length of a Star Destroyer. The CR-90 seems to shrink due to the effects error, but I believe that is the Executor and not a Star Destroyer, as it looks like the same model of the brim trench from the end of Empire Strikes Back.

[@kyle857]

Home one was an exploration ship and was massive.

[@kyle857]

in real life commercial ships are larger than Warships. See titanic vs dreadnought or a super carrier vs an oil tanker.

[@chrissonofpear1384]

Note also the giant Nebulon-B in one shot, with a like 50 m CR90 in front.

[@CFRF13]

I remember back in the day of early to mid Legends that there was a classification of the Mon Calamari Cruisers consisting of the MC80 being a wingless 1,200 meter ship, the MC80a being the Winged Liberty type, the MC80b being the Mon Remonda upgraded type, and the MC85 being the Home One type, ranging in a 3,200 meters.

[@treq2112]

"It's not the size if the dog in the fight. It's the size of the fight on the dog." And Home One had plenty of fight to spare.

[@unitedstatesofamerica4987]

@Lady Wanderer I mean...You're right but We had an In lore reason

[@d_valroth]

@Lady Wanderer But...if your character sheet literally has "great shields" as your selling point... :)

[@PHILeeOPE]

Poptarts are basically ravioli and you can’t convince me otherwise

[@The-kr9rb]

stop this you maniac

[@clonescope2433]

Why did you say something so brave yet so controversial?

[@Sin526]

The world is not ready for such knowledge!

[@oiops]

And a ravioli is just a dumpling.

[@haydencrowe3024]

I always thought the Home One was around twice as big as a regular MC80, so maybe 2-2.5km

[@chrissonofpear1384]

That's the minimum length I would give it, too, though near 3 km would fit the hangar volume better.

[@sindari5102]

Let's make sure history remembers the name of Admiral Ackbar and his sacrifice to the rebellion and the resistance rest in peace our fishy friend

[@danielwlodawer1282]

Nop when they redcon the new trilogy he might be still alive...

[@d_valroth]

Ackbar died in his sleep an old man, I have no idea what you're talking about. ;p

[@sindari5102]

Last time I saw Admiral Akbar was the Last Jedi

[@d_valroth]

@@sindari5102 You mean that sequence where physics break down completely (even for Star Wars) and established canon is willfully disregarded and they kick fans in the junk seemingly just because they can? No idea what you're talking about. :)

[@mastermarco1723]

It's sad they killed him off like that in the background, I didn't even notice that he was there while watching the Last Jedi.

[@darthbrandon224]

i think we can all agree that eck has the best intro out of any youtuber out there

[@brianclasby4945]

I'm impressed that you have an internal head cannon.

[@Efcaz]

This started as a Home one size video, turned into a flat death star society video

[@richardched6085]

5:10 we see the Falcon being dwarfed by the CR90 Corellian Corvette.... This shot alone implies a length of 400+ meters for the CR90.... I guess we can make the transparisteel cockpit smaller lol.

[@plektosgaming]

In the film(s), it was clear that other large rebel ships aside, it was a huge behemoth that outclassed Star Destroyers enough that it made them worry and was seen as a prime target. The writers simply got it wrong. The Rebels had one (possibly two) giant ships that forced them to build even larger ships to compete. It was the same in the video games. The big ship was enough of a problem that it could easily pop a lone Star Destroyer without taking much damage in return.

[@Blacksmith__]

Home One definitely deserves to be bigger than an ISD-II, it would make it a lot more believable that it could survive facing the imperial fleet in close quarters for as long as it does in ROTJ.

[@khadenallast4495]

At the same time it would make it less believable that the Rebellion is able to maintain let alone field such a ship.

[@gsthomas187]

Thank you for acknowledging my twitter post king 🙏

[@mitchcoleman1238]

That’s really weird, I always thought of home1 being so much bigger than 1300 meters!! 😵😵😵

[@endlesswaffles6504]

Death Star 2 is flat: Change My Mind.

[@devastler]

Hey Ecks, I've been a long time sub of your channel, and yeah I've been thinking about this topic for many many many years now, in fact, another proof that Home One is bigger, or was meant to be bigger is the game Star Wars Rogue Squadron 2: Rogue Leader, there you see a Home One that is at least twice the length of an ISD. Great video btw

[@chrissonofpear1384]

Hmm, I seem to remember the Prima Guide made it seem maybe 1.8 to 1.9 km, in comparison? Have to watch the game, again.

[@aaronescamilla5026]

I always liked to think that the Home One is larger than other rebel ships, but other rebel ships like the liberty types carry more guns while the Home One acts as a true command ship. Implementing advance shielding to protect its VIPs, advance long range communications to coordinate with the rest of the rebellion, and huge carrying space for fighters, vehicles, personal, and supplies.

[@zarander]

The Super Star Destroyer changed many times. First 8km, then 12.5km then 19km?

[@chrissonofpear1384]

though the model was physically always between 13 and 19 km, depending on which ISD miniature was compared to it. The rest was a result of repeating misremembered script references.

[@mcsmedia8081]

When in doubt, I would go with WAR ICW/TR mod's presentation, given just how much attention to detail the mod team has put into their work. The Home One type MC80 cruisers are significantly longer than ISDs, be it either the ISD or ISD2. It was also that general MC80 Home One type shape that got reused in the later MC90s. The other MC80 variants (Liberty types and B types) generally appear to be smaller than ISDs.

[@crsrdash-840b5]

I enjoy your videos. I love the ending with your dog going nuts over a rub. If you ever get another dog, you should recreate this scene. It makes my day.

[@justinparker7712]

Another inconsistency in Empire Strikes Back is the size comparison of the Falcon and the Medical Frigate at the end, I feel like that frigate is way too small in comparison.

[@chrissonofpear1384]

I did an extensive analysis of that myself, and if the Falcon miniature was 10 inches / 25.4 cm, as many claim, the whole frigate comes out to around 336 metres or more, so actually not far off. But the medical suit window and people inside also makes it look under 200 metres, in same scene, I think.

[@justinparker7712]

@@chrissonofpear1384 good call, maybe it was the window that threw me off

[@dorsk84]

IIRC The Mon Cal cruisers where orginally supposed to be "Cruise Ships". That where pressed into service by the Rebellion. I can't remember where I read that. It was in a, " A Complete Guide to....." book, or it was discussed in one of the "legacy" books.

[@chrissonofpear1384]

I think it began in the old Rebel Forces Tech Journal, in Starlog Magazine? Then in many RPG books. But unsure which came first.

[@OgeeStroid]

Yesss Finally my question has been answered! THANK YOUUUUU

[@MisterLongShot_Official]

My headcanon for Home One always puts it right around 2200 meters. I remember it used to have a crazy Star Fighter capacity, like almost 20 squadrons. A lot of sizes and definitions have changed in the last 20 years, all through the GFFA

[@ZontarDow]

There's been mistakes since Episode 6, where a scene of the space battle had a Star Destroyer and a Nebulon B dualing, but the Nebulon B was scaled up to be of similar size as the Star Destroyer.

[@eds1942]

I propose that MCxx (such as MC80c) aren’t model numbers, but fleet designations. For an MC 80c. - The first digit refers to the fleet. 8’ is the 8th fleet. - The second digit refers to its task group. ‘0’ is the main group. - The lowercase letter refers to that ship’s role. ‘c’ is a command ship or carrier.

[@Wulfenburg]

i had a big home one toy when i was a kid and it opened up and had all sorts of cool stuff inside of it :-)

[@Robocopnik]

I don't think any of the number stuff really matters, what's way more important is how the ships or whatever figure into the story and what they mean to the characters. Like, the Falcon coming back at the end of episode 4 isn't great because it's however fast or however big, it's great because it's the natural end-point of Han's journey through the story and he helps save the day and Vader goes "what" in a hilarious way.

[@bigwitt187]

You keep your story nonsense out of this, we have numbers to crunch.

[@chrissonofpear1384]

Valid argument, anyway. Though in this case, the ship really CANNOT fit the Falcon and a shuttle inside it at 1.3 km, unless we imagine the hangar is much larger overall or wider.

[@bigwitt187]

@@chrissonofpear1384 The ImpStar Deuce carried a prefab base and ground assault vehicles. I'm pretty sure those take up a lot more space than the Falcon.

[@derlasercrafterwally4342]

In thrawns revenge, the home one is much larger than an ISD. But it just kinda fits. Imagine playing EaW Thrawns Revenge and having such a small MC80 Home one

[@russellharrell2747]

Dr. Saxton put in a lot of work decades ago only for Lucasfilm and fans to ignore it over and over. At least he got to consult on one of the ICS books. Home one was at least 2km and probably around 3, with the smaller type MC80 ships probably meant to be scaled at around 1500m to give them rough parity with the ISD length. But canon is canon, what ya gonna do? (If you are Doomcock you start spreading rumors that the ST is going to get retconned)

[@tucmakukla]

Head canon: Similar to various shenanigans regarding Treaty displacement limits inter war (esp. with japanese warships) and to, say, intentionally using a "40cm" designation for the yamato class main guns (45cm in reality)... The Home One type MC-80s had their size underreported for whatever tracking, throwing off the Imperial estimates of alliance power and giving the shock value to sudden appearance of large, powerful "super-cruiser".

[@ryanbwags]

Man, I can spot that X-wing intro video from a mile away. Loved those games.

[@randomdeadpool]

9:35 Love that part

[@WildWolfGod]

I never realized you were captioned as "Eckhart slaughter" by the Closed Captions. KZbin has deemed you the destroyer.

[@CujoHyer]

The size different i hate the most is in Empire Strikes Back. When the Falcon is parked on the back of the Star Destroyer's bridge. The Falcon looks WAY TOO BIG in comparison.

[@chrisreilly1290]

I always wondered why the battle, being looked at by Luke in the death star 2, never had Home 1 prominently shown like the star destroyers and executor

[@DJRonnieG]

This topic reminds me of the conjecture regarding how many shuttle craft the starship Voyager can hold. At one point in time, the ship was at last carry two runabout-sized craft. One was Neelix's ship Baxial, and the Delta Flyer. Some theorize that the U.S.S. Voyager is like a "Tardis" on the inside. However, it is my speculation that they stored a couple of other craft in cargo bays with large external doors or that they disassembled some craft. I suspect you could turn most of a starfleet shuttle-craft into replicator energy. Perhaps a few key components such as the warp core and warp nacelles would remain whole due to "calibration" and non-replicatable parts.

[@ekerslithery5955]

I have a pitch that the home ones size can be compromised at 1720m which doesn’t dwarf other MC80 and MC75 cruisers but is reasonably large to explain some of the zoomed in shots of RotJ

[@prometheus8010]

You could also take the size of a ship that crashes into it right beforehand and then line up a bunch of those in a full length photo

[@andrerosema6500]

The homepage you mention confounds a brahatok with a corellian corvette. I think that is saying enough about their accuracy. To the hangar-scene: Saxton has allways used the highest numbers in the scale-ranges. That ship may be larger than 1.3 but never around or even over 3 km.

[@Yora21]

The one measurement that never makes sense to me is the Trade Federation Droid Control Ship. It's always listed as being much bigger than a Star Destroyer, but in all shots it looks significantly smaller.

[@chrissonofpear1384]

Not in Revenge of the SIth, though, @Yora - where it looks at LEAST three times bigger than a Venator, and so may even be 4 km...

[@Unknown.NotRegistered]

I always figured someone was dyslexic and others were stubborn. 3,100 km is what I always had in my head-cannon.

[@chrissonofpear1384]

Me too, certainly recently.

[@Gooberpatrol66]

It makes sense for an mc80 to be bigger than an ISD but less powerful because it's not a dedicated warship.

[@danielnguyen3787]

Why’s everybody wanted to say First in every video? Showoffs?

[@GarlicPudding]

At this point, it's an inside joke. *Making fun* of anyone who makes that big a deal of someone who cares about getting the first comment.

[@Broadica]

To trigger responses like yours.

[@prion42]

Seems to me the most sensible way to compute this from on screen canon is to figure out the size of the hangar bay opening from the inside shot, then go outside the ship and measure with that opening as a base. Then you just have to decide if that length makes sense. Whether it does or not, the measurement will be the starting point of discussion.

[@conorr2661]

I don't think it's necessarily a problem, it's entirely possible that an ISD is equal to Home One in terms of tonnage, even being 300 metres shorter. For instance, irl, the KMS Bismarck was 251 metres long, and weighed almost 50,000 tons at full load. Meanwhile, the IJN Yamato was only five metres longer, but was almost twenty thousand tons heavier. Star Destroyers are generally flatter I've noticed, so yeah there's a decent chance that Home One is much heavier than an ISD. TLDR - Home One could be a much heavier and larger ship than an ISD, even if it is shorter.

[@jetoak]

Another problem I find with this flagship is the consistent presentation of it's armament. Like all MC80A star cruisers, Home One is also armed only with turbolasers, ion cannons, quad laser cannons and tractor beams. Which makes me wonder if there were modifications for ordnance launchers installed, makes sense as the most powerful and advanced capital ship in the Alliance fleet.

[@bluewhaleking6227]

*its

[@kimleechristensen2679]

Simple math guys 😉 FFG did us a favour here by making two scale models, the Lampda shuttle for the X-wing miniature game and the MC80 Home One for the Armada miniature game. The Lampda is in scale 1/250 I believe and when measured with wings folded up, it would be about 20 meters tall in real 1/1 scale. The FFG MC80 model is 180mm long with hanger bay ports on its sides that are 2mm high. So a very small Lampda in the same scale as the MC80 would be no taller than 2mm with its wings folded up. Therefore I can infer that 1mm in the MC80 model is equal to roughly 10 meters in 1/1 scale. Hence the MC80 is 180 x 10 meters = 1800 meters, give an take a few meters here and there. Okay 1797,34 meters if you don't like round numbers, but I will not bid any lower than that 😏😏😏

[@chrissonofpear1384]

Add the Falcon in there too, and how the bay seems wide enough for about two Falcons, and it gets larger, of course.

[@wangbot47]

I think part of Home One's size isn't it's length, but that it has a very high volume. It's shape doesn't really taper the way a Star Destroyer's does, it's like a big-ass log. Like if it was an ocean -going vessel, it reminds me of a massively scaled up Soviet Alfa submarine, which was about the same length as the USA's Virginia class, but had a far higher displacement due to being much broader, taller, and not really tapering off much until just before the fore and aft. So to my mind, Home One is more massive than an ISD, but not by much, even though it is 300 meters shorter.

[@Benjamin0119]

It is a fatter shape yes, but twice as long also. Go check out the Star Wars Technical Commentaries. It comes off as HUGE in the film. Though sadly we never saw a shot with it next to a Star Destroyer for direct comparison like we did the Liberty.

[@stijnVDA1994]

Hey, Is there in star wars a type of canon that could as it were dislocate to fire past sides if the canon is hammer part of the hammerhead cruiser on the top and bottom ends instead of on the sides?

[@bengoodwin465]

I always thought that home one was a bit smaller than an executor while normal mc80s were about ISD size.

[@panimalos5720]

it being a under water city that can fly in space makes a lot of sense to me :)

[@atigerclaw]

I always considered Home One to BE the Independence, with 'Home One' being a callsign. As for the ship itself, I always considered it to be an MC85a, a slightly larger variant of the nearby MC80 class. Old game models always had it slightly different from the MC80 series, and definitely larger and better looking than the MC70 series. Of course, lore back then said that every single Mon Cal cruiser was unique in design, so you couldn't really call it a class.

[@oliversimonenluke3262]

Nice video always thought home one was alot larger

[@stardust27274]

The Mon Calamari cruisers were actually buildings housing thousands on Mon Cala. The cruisers carry many refugees.

[@chrissonofpear1384]

At least some of the designs were, yes, by modern sources. But maybe first built as explorers, and THEN becoming habitats?

[@silvershades6689]

I love Star Wars, I really do, but it's ship classifications and types drive me insane. It's like they were just throwing Naval terms around willy nilly to try to sound cool. "Headquarters Frigate" my arse, the script called it a cruiser literally one word and a comma earlier. That would be like me saying "Look at that River Patrol Ship, the Iowa Battleship". It's mindbogglingly infuriating and yet so trivial.

[@hugeloads]

I’m glad you made this video. Home one should have always at least been 3km. It is in my head cannon at least hah

[@greypaladin4560]

The Super Stardestroyer colliding into a flat Deathstar was probably easier to build than a curved Deathstar. It would be pretty hard to make a curved surface large enough to use as the base/frame to build the deathstar exterior on. Not to mention if it weren't made well and had any bumps/dips it would look weird when filming. Add to that covering it with kit-bashed parts, a lot of which would have to be bent a bit to fit the curve, and it would have been easier to just use a flat table.

[@KatrinaLeFaye]

Thank you for the resource.

[@timbartschwolfman]

Saw the notification during Stargirl

[@splatoonistproductions5345]

I recently started playing awakening of the rebellion commence ground assault. And my god it’s so much fun!! I’ve had more of a blast playing the ground battles then before. Even though I chose the new republic, I’m getting hammered and still having a blast. but I do think the home one there is what I pictured it myself. Like it seems to be depicted as a ship larger then a star destroyer by a couple hundred meters or more. while I’m fine with what it’s told to be, I hope to see something like say the battle of jakku in a movie or game, where we can see a rendered home one go side to side with an ISD and we can see it properly, maybe even make it what is expect3d.

[@thatdmguy4512]

First point. We demand more dog footage. 2nd point could you do a vid explaining the order of books for the post endor storyline for legends?

[@davidsuda6110]

Yes this is new and I hope we have a real lesson here and it's pay attention to your world building and try to have some constancy with sizes. In the end it doesn't change much but good info to have.

[@davidsuda6110]

Maybe it's imperial propaganda. The people who put this data out have more resources than the rebels.

[@Jack-iu7pw]

Last time I was this early everyone was making 'last time I was this early' jokes

[@SoccerBoyAP]

4:15 - "nitty gritty".... That's why I'm here!