I had to destroy this AWFUL Star Wars take

I had to destroy an awful Star Wars opinion about Mon Calamari Cruisers from my friend ‪@Gigas0101‬. This is just for fun, and thanks for the great prompt. More information on today's Star Wars lore video!
Mon Cal cruiser thumbnail model via fractalsponge: fractalsponge....
Battle of Endor: • Star Wars VI: Return o...
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[@Gigas0101]

You got better eyes than me, I missed those shots at Endor and Scariff. I figured the Mon Cal cruisers were meant to operate like aircraft carriers due to the implied superiority of Rebel fighters. Definitely one of my favourite little moments was at Endor when the rebels figured out it was a trap but before the iconic "It's a trap!" line. I love the clip of the ships all veering off from the unseen shield and turning away, followed by the shot from inside the bridge of home one where the Imperial fleet comes into view like it had just completed the jump in. I always figured the meme overtook the scene, but the sudden break of coordination among the rebel ships as they all brake and turn only to see the Imperials flanking them, it felt Thrawn-esque.

[@alegsb3943]

This legend actually apologized and admitted defeat online. For you sir, I give you my respect

[@tiger-ym7ln]

You have my respect for admit your wrong online

[@whiteglint7694]

We need to encourage this very mature response. Cheers to you sir.

[@thecraftergaming4797]

a surprise to be sure but a welcome one

[@SOLOcan]

It's been a long while since I read this on Wookiepedia and I think its from Legends canon so it might not even really be relevant but we can examine your premise a bit further. It may be possible the on screen Mon Calamari Cruisers have little more than point defence weapons against fighters. However this wouldn't really be a mistake on the part of the designers. As you pointed out, real life Aircraft Carriers forgo heavy weapons like you would find on a battleship because their method of delivering firepower is the aircraft. Aircraft allow carriers to remain at great distances because they provide very long strike range and recon capability. Carriers would fit the Rebels guerrilla warfare. It would make sense then for their warships to specialise in this. Adding heavier guns will compromise this capability. We can see this with a converse example, the Venator. Their large central hanger make them one of the most potent starfighter carriers in the universe, however to facilitate it Venators have to forgo gun coverage. Specifically their lower front arc, which I believe is the reason some Venators compensate by parking that ground laser artillery walker at the opening of their hanger. So why were carriers going toe-to-toe with Star Destroyers in the Battle of Endor? Because it was a trap. The Imperials plan was the sit back and let the Death Star blow up the rebel fleet one ship at a time. This was to allow the Emperor time to gloat to Luke and to convince him to turn to the Dark Side. Ackbar was forced to remain in order to to strike the death star as soon as the shield generator was destroyed. His first choice was to abort the mission but Lando convinced him to remain and to deal with the super laser by engaging the star destroyers at point black range. This is why you see nebulon b frigates broadsiding star destroyers. The second thing to consider regarding Mon Cal cruisers is that it would be incorrect to apply a standard military framework to their design. Unlike the Imperial Navy who build star destroyers to a certain spec like the Imperial-Class, Mon Cal cruisers are retrofitted civilian vessels which themselves were originally made in a bespoke artisanal manner. The MC-80 designation referred to ships that look widely different from each other, such as the triangle flying wing looking ship to ships that look like the Home One. Coupled with the fact that their a rag tag rebellion and cannot manufacture heavy weapons, you can't really ask why these ships are designed that way. The answer is that they weren't, some have heavy turbolasers, some don't. They're just making do with what they have.

[@jedijam91]

I don't understand why people don't get that there were technical limitations to those movies. We're spoiled nowadays with the technology we have and it has been detrimental in some ways. Just because we can't always see something, doesn't mean it isn't there or it isn't happening.

[@LordBenjaminSalt]

It's kinda like the people who talk about new Star Trek being lore breaking because the ship interiors don't match The Original Series.

[@warwolf3005]

Also I'd imgaine it would be too big of a mess to have all the ships firing their weapons. Each ISD has over 100 turbolasers and lasers. Now multiplied that by 30, and adding rebel ships.. it would be the most chaotic battle in EaW

[@danielkorladis7869]

exactly. Modern computers have made it easy to put lots of lasers in everywhere, but doing this back in the late 70s and early 80s was a giant pain in the rear. It's honestly amazing that the special effects still look as good as they do.

[@suddenshotty]

​@@warwolf3005 Yeah, we are watching a film first and foremost.. The shot should keep attention at the main focal points being played out than oversaturating the background with random things.

[@jocro8090]

@@danielkorladis7869 Yeah back then those laser shots had to be drawn in frame by frame with rotoscoping.

[@jonnnyren6245]

This channel is slowly turning into a "roast my spaceship" channel and I am here for it. 🤣🤣🤣

[@askmeaboutsugma]

If you want more “roast my spaceship” content check out Sacred Cow Shipyards.

[@theenforcingbuilders8769]

agreed.

[@eldenvedetta635]

As long as it's not Disney Star wars content I'm all for it!

[@jayhafe]

@@askmeaboutsugma is correct.

[@JeanLucCaptain]

On this episode of TERRIBLE STARSHIPS

[@EckhartsLadder]

Hopefully you all realize that this is in good fun. Thanks GIgas for all your passion and sense of humor!

[@26th_Primarch]

I hope you can cover the mini-rig and body-rig toy vehicles kenner made for the OT toy line and how the more recent toys that could fall into that category. Plus you could speculate on how they'd realistically be employed or where they'd have come from in-universe

[@robertwalker7454]

Nice, video as always, and I am wondering, how many Canons would you put on the Raddus?

[@BobbleheadLuck]

I like the V-19 Torrent, is this heresy?

[@bobsterclause342]

THe lore does talk about boradsides. So, yeah

[@michealshelton2133]

my biggest let down is feeling like we will never actually see a battle with thrawn in command and they actually shot the scene like they are in the books. my biggest wish is the thrawn trilogy page to screen no changes

[@InventorZahran]

My favorite underrated moment in a space battle is from Revenge of the Sith: during the Battle of Coruscant, we see a Venator destroy a Munificent-class frigate with only one shot, using a miniaturized Death Star-like superlaser. When I first saw this, I thought it was foreshadowing about how a weapon of this type would eventually be upscaled enough to obliterate whole planets. But according to sourcebooks, the "superlaser" is literally just an SPHA-T's main cannon mounted in the bottom hanger of the Venator. It's almost like a Xyston-class star destroyer, but much more sensible and realistic.

[@hanzzel6086]

I've always loved that shot. In part because it is referenced in The Clone Wars TV series where it is revealed that it was (to absolutely no ones surprise) Anikan's idea.

[@InventorZahran]

@@hanzzel6086 Of course the man who would eventually become Darth Vader would suggest such a thing. It's totally his style!

[@kungolaf4499]

@@hanzzel6086 What? In what episode does he suggest that?

[@hanzzel6086]

@@kungolaf4499 I honestly can not remember. It has been way too long. I think it was to get the drop on some CIS ships by tricking them in to diving underneath the Venator to try and avoid her main guns.

[@chrissonofpear1384]

@@hanzzel6086 Those were AT-TEs, I recall, not SPHA-Ts (which are twice as big) But may have set him on the path to the idea later.

[@rebelappliance771]

Kinda wild how the cross section of Home One at 5:13 shows a straight up public park in the middle of the ship complete with a lake.

[@adambielen8996]

Akbar travels in style.

[@yanyanchan2199]

Old EU stated the MC ships were converted luxury liners. New canon, they’re buildings from Mon Cala.

[@arcturionblade1077]

Disney Cruise liners converted into Rebel capital war ships. Complete with pools, Jacuzzis, rock climbing, and conga lines.

[@Spectacular_Insanity]

To be fair, the Mon Calamari needed those pools of water. They were still mostly aquatic, and their skin would dry out and crack and bleed if they didn't get frequent time submerged in water.

[@jatzi1526]

@@yanyanchan2199 I like the converted luxury liner story better

[@kabob0077]

0:45 They do have weapons, the fact that they operate more like carriers gives them a REASON to not rush headlong into a brawl with an Imperial II. Just because something isn't firing its weapons doesn't mean it hasn't been equipped with any. Besides, the Rebel Alliance's values the ability to strike fast and leave faster over staying and slugging it out given the nature of the what sort of military the Alliance is, it makes sense that the largest ships they have, while able TO take on other capital ships, would stay farther back and operate as carriers as opposed to battleships. Consider how many ships and crewmembers those things have and how MASSIVE a blow losing them would be when you're a force that's only got a few secret shipyards and is a REBELLION, every ship the Rebels lose is a massive blow when it's something the size of a MC80.

[@alejandroelluxray5298]

Actually, many MC cruisers were true battleships instead of carriers, the Home One type serves as a battle carrier more than anything (like the Venator but better in the battle prospect) while the MC80 Liberty was one of the cruisers that was an actual frontline battleship, even if it was less armed than the ISD (48 turbolasers was more than enough anyways)

[@graxon29]

You know, one thing in the battle of Endor I've never seen brought up, is when the TIE Fighters charge in formation as you see in 1:10 , some of the TIEs just fucking spawn in out of thin air in the background, it's something that I can never not notice every time I watch it

[@ShawnMCowles]

5D foreshadowing of the Emperor conjuring a fleet of star destroyers for the sequel trilogy!

[@thepurpleapple]

It's weird because I never really perceived that until much later and the tech was there to make ships realistically look like they are coming from a distance. I mean, i sae it, j just had nk frame of reference how that would look irl. Reminds me of something I watched in film school, I think it was called The Battle of Manila Bay or something. Which depicted a re-enactment of said naval battle. People at the time thought it was real but in actual fact it was two model ships and a guy blowing cigar smoke at them while someone splashed water. Or even more wild, that story that some native Americans could not percieve European ships because they made no sense to them. Idk how true that is but it's strange what we will visually accept unless we know better. The only sfx that truly bugged me in the OT as a kid were the black lines that used to be around the ships and walkers at Hoth.

[@alyssinwilliams4570]

... holy crap, I never noticed that before

[@thepurpleapple]

@@tryingtotryistrying oh I agree with you entirely and I AM here to defend Aztec human sacrifice.

[@gabesumner1236]

why do research when you can annoy a youtuber into doing it for you? honestly galaxy brain

[@sambridgers9543]

To be fair, half the Legends articles on Wookieepedia haven't been up to date for at least a decade.

[@ImmaSpam__________________Can]

@@sambridgers9543 I'm sure (more like hope) there is a better Wikipedia style thing for starwars somewhere on the internet

[@sambridgers9543]

@@ImmaSpam__________________Can Sadly, Wookieepedia is our best bet for now.

[@ImmaSpam__________________Can]

@@sambridgers9543 kzbin.info/www/bejne/lYOcmImZbsyakMk (this is sad violin music not a Rick roll) Edit: (I should have done a violin cover of never gonna give you up)

[@luelee6168]

Makes sense. External guns have a higher chance of being damaged and rendered unusable. Having guns in the interior and protected by a shield would insure that some guns remain operational.

[@hanzzel6086]

But it also drastically reduces their field of fire (not that Star Wars cares about those anyways).

[@luelee6168]

@@hanzzel6086 Indeed. They will be fully protected from becoming disabled by fighters but at a cost of said field of view. Just as a turret gun has the advantage of rotating about, yet it is exposed to fighters and being disabled by other gunships.

[@SquareLizard924.0]

“Protected by a shield would insure that some guns remain operational” That ROTS opening battle would say otherwise

[@luelee6168]

@@SquareLizard924.0 Shields aren't always invincible in Star Wars now are they? Plus they were firing broadside guns which I would imagine be more powerful than a single blast from a fighter.

[@captin3149]

@@luelee6168 Theoretically, you could probably mount more weapons from within the ship to cover the field of fire issue. It shouldn't cost too much in the way of power, since only the weapons that have a firing angle would actually be drawing power, so the question would be how much space the ship would have to mount said weapons. In the case of Mon Cal superliners, I would imagine they'd have plenty of space compared to purpose built warships like the ISDs

[@borgCube100]

Always knew there was something fishy about those cruisers

[@barragethree5047]

Go home

[@riverlucier7496]

@@barragethree5047 yes, home one

[@arcturionblade1077]

Palpatine: **sweats nervously when approaching a turbo lift full of Mon Calamarians**

[@thesterben5573]

sounds like something the emperor would say

[@anxiousearth680]

Yeah, they're shaped to be hydrodynamic. Like submarines. Or fish. Conclusion: They are indeed very fishy carriers

[@mrpancake8889]

3:29 had me dying, the delivery along with the fact that I never actually realized that it was seriously broadsiding the executor made it perfect.

[@thevgmlover]

Same! I thought it was just an ISD, which is already insane as it turns out a Nebulon B's actually pretty small when lined up to one! What captain in their right mind would think to engage a frickin' SSD with one???

[@kerbalairforce8802]

I'll play War Thunder Naval as an 80ft patrol boat and box with a light cruiser or destroyer by focusing on their deck guns.

[@danielkorladis7869]

@@thevgmlover Rebel Captain Leeroy Jenkins

[@gokbay3057]

@@kerbalairforce8802 A Japanese destroyer ran over JFKs PT boat in the actual Pacific War.

[@were-owlinwisconsin4441]

@@thevgmlover That close in, the Executor probably can't bring many of its turbolasers to bear on that particular target. It's still not a safe thing to do, but my interpretation is that the captain of that Nebulon frigate either tried to stick to a blind spot where there weren't as many guns to deal with, or just tried to make a high-speed run and get out before the ship got torn to pieces. Plus, it wasn't the only ship dueling with the Executor. There's also a Corellian Corvette and a GR-75 transport in the same shot. Those are even less likely to survive that attack run.

[@tracepercell5799]

One of my favorite little scenes in star wars was actually from the Clone Wars movie (I know, not too much was good from that one, but hear me out). I love the moment when the gunships are getting ready to land on Teth. The blastdoors close, you see the battle lighting go off, and all the troopers making their final arrangements (one trooper informs another that his comm has static and he scrambles to fix it). The scene showed me a glimpse to what would happen behind the scenes as the clones were on one of those gunships, which amplifies the sadness and meaning when you see a gunship get shot down.

[@grizzlybear352]

I think an Underrated part in a Space Battle Was During the Seige of the Malevolence, when Anakin And his Squad Were about to Bomb the Bridge, Anakin Had to Choose Between Ending the War or Saving the Clone. and Anakin Chose the Boys

[@luigimrlgaming9484]

He should’ve ended the war right then and there

[@mercury2157]

A lot like his Jabiim fuckup, but on an extremely grander scale

[@wanderingprophet3948]

Your capitalisation hurts

[@SorenNido]

My favorite underrated scene in a SW space battle huh...? Well there's two that immediately come to mind for that: During the battle of Atollon, right after Sato sacrifices himself and the Phoenix Nest to give Ezra a chance to escape, when we see the Rebel fleet turning around to retreat to the surface, I really like that shot of the Rebel ships just swinging around during that maneuver, it looked awesome. The second scene that comes to mind is in ROTJ when Wedge calls all wings to lock S-foils in attack position and we see the B-wings opening up their wings and then hear those sexy B-wing's flying by, the sound of a B-wing's engines is like music to my ears.

[@EckhartsLadder]

Love that shot too. Great choice

[@ArcNine9Angel]

Rebels still gets a lot of flak, but there are genuine moments in it's favor, for sure.

[@kabob0077]

0:14 This man has his own Clone or Droid Army with how often he's posted.

[@thesenate2656]

That ISD going down that easily at 0:25 got me dead already.

[@a.d.janson]

I don’t get it please explain 😢

[@TrevorAWilliams]

Underrated moment 1: At one point Wedge closing his S-foils inside the second Death Star. Underrated moment 2: Ships entering the second Death Star - it's an impressive maneuver.

[@tylershort9626]

It makes sense for mon cal ships to be covered with blisters for weapons. They were not built as warships, weapons were added after the fact and most likely more fragile than the weapons on a isd that were built in place and designed for combat. You'd want to armor them since you're basically welding weapons onto the outer hull where they shouldn't have been.

[@captin3149]

In legends it was even specifically mentioned that adding the blisters caused the Mon Cals some distress, as they built those ships to be literal works of art and the blisters and weaponization turned them into what the Mon Cals saw as ugly war machines.

[@chrissonofpear1384]

That said, I've often doubted they were NEVER intended to have weapons. See also the ones that are ex explorer ships, too.

[@generalsmite7167]

It is kind of ridiculous to think that the main rebel capital ships not to have guns

[@AntVaz7]

Man I find it amazing how George Lucas and his crew managed to actually make sense out of what was actually just low budget production and gave almost everything an ACTUAL lore reason for it being that way or this thing being there and that this happened because of that, it’s truly amazing what the power of writing can do, if it weren’t for the amazing writing this franchise definitely wouldn’t be as good and detailed as it is

[@khandimahn9687]

Low budget? Every Star Wars film was very expensive for its time. The $32.5 million in 1983 for RTJ would be just under $100 million today. Just for comparison, the movie with the highest budget in '83 was Superman 3, at $39 million.

[@AntVaz7]

@@khandimahn9687 what I call “low budget” is just the effects that are considered subpar by today’s standards so yeah just to clear that up, I don’t actually mean that Star Wars had a low budget

[@5peciesunkn0wn]

@@AntVaz7 Less "low budget" and more "limited capability".

[@trumps-a-hoe]

Don't forget, at the battle of endor Lando ordered Akbar to have the cruisers engage the isd's at point blank range stating they'd last longer than against the 2nd death

[@lordrevan571]

People also forget the battle of Endor was a clusterfuck for both sides. For the first hours of the battle no one really knew what was going on, when the fighters engaged one another at the mid point it took quite a bit for capital ships of any kind to meet one another at maximum range, this only happened when Lando declared all ships to move into combat range with the fleet. At this point, Moncala and otherwise ships would be within weapons range, and be forced to scatter their shots all over the place. Concentrating on a single ship in this type of mess would be detrimental to the overall stability of the fleet, considering the fighter superiority the rebels would gain midway into the battle. It makes honestly no sense for rebel or imperial warships to engage at close combat unless they have to, focusing otherwise on point defense and long range bombardment via turbo laser or missile. Mon cala ships, much like dreadnoughts, have turret bulbs that need to open before they can fire most of the time. People also forget, Mon cala ships didn't have a wide range of weapons, what they had were shields, shields for fucking days.

[@Spectacular_Insanity]

Yes, and also unlike Imperial ships, Mon Cal cruisers' shields didn't collapse all at once. They started to get "gaps" in their overlapping shield coverage, but they were rarely completely defenseless. That's how so many ISDs got destroyed in just a few volleys. Once their shields went down, ISDs and SSDs were sitting ducks.

[@lordrevan571]

@@Spectacular_Insanity Pretty much, the good thing (and terrible thing) about mon cala ships is that each one is unique, despite what many claim, each ship has its own quirks and changes, there's no real core "Mon Calamari Cruiser' design, of any design, they're all different, but the weapon layouts tend to be the same thanks to power demands. It also doesn't help the ISD that the Mon Cala crusier itself is built like a brick shithouse, with fair armor and quick shield regeneration. The core problem with most ISD's is the reactor itself is a ticking time bomb, with one design of ISD, I can't recall if it was the first or second, having its main hypermatteranhillator reactor literally sitting in view of the main hanger. Credit where credit is due, Mon Cala ship designers don't fuck around, they'll upgun your condo at half the price of kuat drive.

[@Duchess_Van_Hoof]

Reminds me of the ISD's greatest strength is its ridiculously overpowered reactor that has energy to spare. They really should have thought of a few additional shield generators instead of just giving it more and more turbo-lasers when they designed the ISD II. Those two main shield generators might be suitably placed for protecting the bridge, but the gigantic bulbous reactor is practically exposed on the other end of the ship.

[@lordrevan571]

@@Duchess_Van_Hoof In reality, the ISD was the perfect ship for what it was designed for. It needed power more so for itself than the lasers it held. The ship was basically a mobile command center at all times, and a battleship second. Sure, we can argue that it's a pure battleship, when it's facing someone head on with a support fleet of 15+ ships all around it covering the multitude of blindspots. The ISD II fixed a lot of problems, and added some of its own, as you said, the Empire couldn't get over its desire for more guns over more shields.

[@alejandroelluxray5298]

Well they could have a variety of weapons as those were pretry customizable, you could fit them with missile launchers, cluster bombs, point defense lasers, etc. Obviously not everything at once but the point is that you can give them any weapon you want, and although their main strenght were the superb shields it is also an advantage for them to be able to be outfited with every ship arsenal you could think of, even one that could match offensively an ISD

[@TheHIV123]

Just as a sort of FYI, historically, “internal” gun mounts on ships from about 1870-1950 are typically called “casemate” gun mounts. Seems like that is pretty much how many of the guns depicted in star wars capital ships are configured

[@PistolMalk]

I never thought about it before, but that jet of flame coming from the Executor's bridge is like a kilometer tall, isn't it?

[@tahhotep]

i dont know if its a kilometer, but you thats no lighter flame.

[@timsaylor4390]

Yeah. That's a big explosion, only outdone when the executor crashed into the station itself

[@khandimahn9687]

The official length of the Executor is 19 km long. So yeah, it's a big fireball.

[@Keosermer]

#AskEck If droid memories can be backed up and reloaded into a droid, what's stopping anyone from taking the memories of a particularly effective droid and making copies of them? 3P0 in Rise of Skywalker lost his memories but they were restored by R2 with no real problem by anyone considering that still the "real" 3P0.

[@captin3149]

I'm sure they can for normal droids. The reasons 3PO and R2 are so significant is that they generally don't get their memories wiped. (3PO did at least once at the end of the prequels, but that's the only time we know for sure that he did) leaving them with distinct personalities to 'stock' models of their series'. For normal droids I have no doubt they can do exactly what you mention for the assembly line nature of droid manufacturing. As for why they don't copy and reinstall the memories of individual droids, that seems to be a moral choice of the droids' owners. Luke and Leia have always treated the droids as more friends than tools, and probably don't want multiple copies of them running around. (Especially since individuals might go different routes with their personalities once booted up. The memory copies would only be a starting place and after that two droids with the same memory would diverge anyway, leading to one being less effective than another in some circumstances.)

[@adamcetinkent]

Have you ever tried restoring a backup to a different computer? Sure, it's possible, but it's such a faff that most people will just chuck their hands up and start afresh :P

[@VerdeMorte]

@@captin3149 Exactly, it's like the AI have developed such a natural navigation of their own neural matrixes that they begin to show human emotions & other inexplicable behavior. The problem being that many droids & designs do *NOT* mesh well with lack of memory wipes, like the B2 Battledroids, various bar droids, and Jabba's torturer. By the time of the Empire's Rise the pain of the Clone Wars and the suffering of people under the droids was still fresh so memory wipes became mandatory standard procedures across the galaxy, even for Jawas. *(Yeah, they were gonna do that to R2...)*

[@zacknorton5886]

I think my favorite underrated moment in a space battle is similar to yours, but it’s when the Shield gate at Scariff is open and the x-wings start peeling off WWII style and zipping down through the opening while the imperials try desperately to close it.

[@nickroy8387]

I grew up loving Star Destroyers but dang Mon Calamari cruisers are awesome. I hope we get some future show or movie that has them working together in the New Republic/New New Republic

[@jatzi1526]

Yes! give me some ISD's and captured SSD's fighting alongside Mon Cal Cruisers. And other stuff. I feel like system specific ships don't get enough love in Star Wars, I remember reading a book where the Corellians I think get this super weird fighter thats like a flying gunship with turrets all over the place. They thought they would get wrecked but when they fight the New Republic they perform really really well

[@neves5083]

Actually thanks for the comments because I never thought about that regarding Mon calamari ships, I just thought that the turrets were too small to be seen, this makes me like it even more.

[@GodittoC]

Quick question: why do all of star wars starships appear to be vtols, despite, design wise, not having able to?

[@Cerran032]

Repulsorlift magic.

[@alexcunningham1647]

Yeah like the other guy said bullshit syfy anti gravity tech

[@barragethree5047]

...the Force?

[@slimetank394]

Anti-gravity technology? They use it in virtually everything that move is star wars except track and leg vehicle. Even the walker AT-ACT have them

[@axiomshift4666]

Pretty much everything has two forms of movement which is ion thrusters which is what you see and some kind of repulsorlift that works on planets. Star Wars has some insane gravity technology that is just glossed over since it’s not important to the story.

[@jake7824]

2:24 I remember reading somewhere that the ISD destroyed here was actually taken out by Blade Squadron, it’s just a coincidence that the MC was firing at the same time

[@darthmada9574]

My favorite moment is when Kylo was piloting his silencer thru part of a rebel ship and lights it up with missiles

[@OllamhDrab]

Well, it seems to me that at Endor, a) as said in dialogue, the Emperor was having his fleet's big guns hold off as a 'special suprise he had planned' and b) Ackbar was taking that bargain because he was trying to buy time for the groun team in the first place and there was serious questions of what magnitude of firepower they could repel. :) Where there's fighters, the big ships probably also didn't want to fire into them under those rules of engagement.

[@GusOfTheDorks]

I want to argue with Ecks here.....but that video feels like solid evidence. Guess this just means HES GASLIGHTING EVERYONE AND IS A MASTER HACKER!!!! HE BROKE INTO KZbin AND DIGITALLY EDITED THOSE LASERS IN HOPING WE WE WOULDNT GO TO OUR DVDS!!!!! DONT BELIEVE THE LIES.

[@ranchoth]

At 5:12 ...ccording to that diagram, the Mon Cal Cruisers actually have an inner "central atrium with artificial environment of water and vegetation, overlooked by accommodation suites." Huh. Nifty. So...the Galactic Starcruiser resort could, in fact, have actually put in a standard hotel feature-which, aside from a enhancing guest experience, would probably be simpler and cheaper to build-as long as they put something passing for a roof over it, AND it would have been completely faithful to established worldbuilding canon. ('Course, I'm one to talk...if it'd been up to me, I would have just styled it as a "Mimban R&R Depot and Trading Post," so I could just build it out in some boggy WDW backlot out of shipping containers and tents. Some weird fake trees, some crashed spaceship parts, set up some loudspeakers out in the perimeter occasional barking out monster noises...add a liquor license and you're good to go, and for WAY under a billion dollars!)

[@shcdemolisher]

Yeah have it be an actual place, instead of a ship that's a prison more then anything.

[@brianhall4182]

The biggest issue I always had with Endor on film was the fact you only see this TINY rebel fleet. 2-3 Mon Cals, a Nebulon B, various transports and corvettes, 3 squadrons of fighters... and that's it. They should've been squashed in about 5 minutes considering how many Star Destroyers we see on screen. I know it's IMPLIED that the rebel fleet is bigger but it still bugs me.

[@zays_mentos]

Imagine if this is only one perspective and through another short film (official or fan-made) we get to see MC75s, Sphyrnas/Hammerheads, and other Rebel ships duking it out. Maybe even see the Braha'tok/Dornean gunships in combat instead of being a background asset. Heck, I'd love to see B-wings finally get some love and blow up the Devastator at 2:08

[@khandimahn9687]

Just have to account for the limitations of special effects at the time. You can be sure there would have been more on the screen if they could squeezed more in.

[@brianhall4182]

@@khandimahn9687 Oh, I know. Doing more ship's would've been difficult with needing actual physical models. The Star Destroyers in the background are just a matte painting and all. But still, mildly annoying, lol.

[@tonlito22]

Why don't we see more militarized air craft like cloud cars or armed sail barges? Would be a darn sight cheaper, more effective, and less silly than seeing TIE fighters flying around on planets. As for favorite moments in a Space Battle is was, fittingly enough, watching clone and droid recessed gun crews go broadside on each other in the opening of Revenge of the Sith.

[@tanith117]

5:13 I did not realize MC 80s had their own beachfront property.

[@Matej_Sojka]

I am not as excited about upcoming stuff from Disney as many others. Among many reasons I am sure everyone heard at length from anyone who does not like Disney SW in general, I am convinced they choose the names to confuse the search engines when you go looking for Expanded Universe material. Tales of the Jedi was awesome comic book series. It is hard enough to find books from it as it is, now I will have to spend time manually filtering them out to get to the comics. This will be The Last Jedi situation all over again.

[@ImmaSpam__________________Can]

Now that you mention it that seems to be exactly what they are doing

[@the-point-bearer6689]

Yeah, and now that you mentioned it, might as well do the search for source material.

[@Duchess_Van_Hoof]

I am strongly suspecting the same thing.

[@stumpy1146]

Who in the hell would think main battle cruisers wouldn't have weapons?!

[@shcdemolisher]

Probably from being spoiled by other sci-fi series that had them decked to the brim with weapons.

[@askmeaboutsugma]

It would kind of make sense for the Rebellion’s Mon Calamari cruisers to hide their weapons internally. Those cruisers were civilian models that had been converted into battle cruisers. It’s likely that, at least early in the war, the Rebellion used this as a strategy to evade Imperial detection. You could probably easily hide a Rebel cruiser amongst civilian Mon Calamari ships at least for a time when the Empire didn’t know those ships had been weaponized.

[@captin3149]

Also it's probably easier to mount weapons inside the superstructure that's already there rather than rebuilding hardpoints that can take external cannons

[@askmeaboutsugma]

@@captin3149 Exactly. Instead of adding superstructure, you just add a porthole for the very end of the barrel. You could even have a sliding door cover that when not in use. The rest of the cannon can be inside. Any storage compartments with external walls could be retrofit into cannon bays.

[@blackc1479]

That ssd broadside artwork sparked a question I can't believe I've never asked. If for whatever goofy illogical reason your standard doctrine is 18th century broadsides.....why aren't the designs reflective of that? Your "oreo trench" is a blaster magnet, so why isn't that upamored or non existent, with maybe the sloped upper and lower armor having center facing "nooks" for crew windows and the like? Damn. Now I gotta get my sketchbook.

[@battleoid2411]

The reason is because space dorito looks cool

[@Duchess_Van_Hoof]

I believe the wedge shape of the Star Destroyers is designed that way to maximize forward firepower whilst minimizing a silhouette for the enemy to target. The ISDs are supposed to park at a suitable distance and just bombard an entire vector until everything stops moving. And chase it while firing if they flee. It is very good for this role. Unfortunately, the Imperial Navy has some personnel problems. The most intelligent officers tend to develop moral qualms and have a high frequency of defecting. Those who don't are driven by ambition and would gladly take the Emperor's place as we see after the Battle of Endor.

[@TankHunter678]

ISDs and SSDs are designed with the intention that whatever they are going to destroy is only going to be in front of them. That they will be advancing upon enemy forces. This is why they are wedge shaped, to enable as many guns facing forward as possible to maximize firepower. In a fleet formation this also means all the ships at your flanks can focus on the same target in front as well. Its crossing the T but doing so going forward instead of going sideways. They concave like units in a video game. This is also why you see the Mon Cala cruisers go broadside with ISDs, it halves the effectiveness of the ISD and gives the cruiser a better chance at survival and victory.

[@deaks25]

I had always bought into the 'blisters' of the Mon Cal ships being modular pods that could house whatever is required so that's an already resolved one in my Head Canon. One of my favourite underrated battle moment is also Rogue One; when the Y-Wings are first bombing the shield gate, then the ISDs, because there's always been that thing in Ep IV where they roll up and die without much effect, and Rogue One shows them off doing their thing and doing it successfully.

[@347Jimmy]

Having your guns internally mounted makes them less likely to be blown off in combat, not terrible design

[@owenbutton3821]

There's another shot in the Battle of Scarif (right after Bodhi shouts, "Now go!") where you can see the rebel fleet, most notably the Profundity, really pounding away at the shield gate with turbolaser fire.

[@josephlance1198]

One of my favorite moments is the flight maneuvers at the very beginning of Revenge of the Sith, especially as they follow along the bow of the Venator to reveal the full battle of Coruscant, it gives me chills every time.

[@wanderingprophet3948]

The more time goes on the more I am convinced that ROTS is secretly the best Star Wars movie

[@were-owlinwisconsin4441]

I always interpreted MonCal Cruisers and Star Destroyers as having pretty much the same kind of turbolaser turrets we saw during the Death Star trench run.

[@Mankorra_Gomorrah]

Well the real reason is probably that the movie was filmed using physical models that were too small to have functional moving turrets and there wouldn’t have been a way to manipulate them without cutting to a stop motion sequence which would have looked horrible in a live action movie. The shots are added in post while rogue one has full 3D model ships that can be as big or small as you want with as much or as little detail as your computer can handle.

[@shcdemolisher]

Yeah that's how I always thought about it and I knew that they had limited tech back then do to anything that would be easily done now.

[@noahzavala7101]

It’s good that mon Cala cruisers have inside guns for safety if they are sticking out a fighter or bomber could do heavy damage

[@rexlumontad5644]

Krillin: "SENZU BEAN!" *throws it at the Mon Calamari cruisers take in the face*

[@JIMvc2]

Didn't lando tell Ackbar, " Engage those star destroyers at point blank range." Then ackbar says, " At that close range we won't last long against those star destroyers." Lando says, " We'll last longer than the Death Star and might as well take some of them with us." What's your take on it Ecks?

[@jatzi1526]

That's exactly what we see? Towards the very end of the battle we see the fleets all mixed together. The clips he showed from the Mon Cal Cruisers firing were from that part of the battle

[@stephenw5488]

This is the first time I’ve heard the term “oreo trench” and it made me laugh out loud. Accurate. 🤣

[@prjndigo]

I'm just gonna point out that the Nebulon is actually carrying a stack of different ships between two fin pylons under the forward section. Never fleshed out, they took someone's design and bullshitted all over it. Its a stack of different in-system ships.

[@moistsparky2371]

who else is in the comments trying to find him

[@MmKayUltra1]

My favorite moment in a space battle was in phantom menace. It taught me that sometimes the real pod racing is the friends you made a long the way.

[@Phryj]

The obvious IRL reason we don't see a whole lot of Mon Cals and ISDs trading fire was because it was an enormous and complex battle to plan out, film , and add effects to. In universe, both sides were probably trying to avoid blowing up too many of their own fighters. Mon Cal ships keeping their weapon batteries inside the blister pods would make them better protected from enemy fire and enable the cruisers to keep attacking for longer. Couple that with their far more resilient shields (depending on the source), that would explain why they're able to take on ISDs, despite being outgunned.

[@dylandarnell3657]

My most underrated favorite moment is the running of the Vanjervalis Chain (from the Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic comics). The clash of technology, piloting skill, and straight-up Looney Toons con artistry makes it a lot more fun to read than the standard space-laser shoot-up.

[@xavierpethtel3563]

An underrated moment in an underrated Battle I think is the scene where the First Order TIE Bombers come screeching in fast from above, pull an inversion and skirt down the side of the Colossus releasing Ion bombs that have a little shake to the screen, all while these beautiful winged beasts swoop in and around them, while the camera is fixed up onto the Fireball diving in on it, the action just swinging with weight down and around. Battle of Aeos Prime*

[@Alice.Morningstar]

Daaamn… the mon Kalamari ships not only come with the basic ship stuff, but they come with a park and a lake to go with it. Lucky

[@ryanh2621]

Can we just give that nebulon b some credit for actually trying to take on the executor at point blank Range

[@ilovemonkeyos]

Regarding the whole “invisible cannons” bit for lasers, The Death Star is also a pretty clear and original candidate for this, and we actually SEE that they have bunker-like stations across the Death Star where the gunners can fire OUT pretty easily, but it’s extremely difficult (especially with the monotony of the structure) for the enemy (or us the viewer) to really even distinguish that there’s a gun there at all. Hell, it takes Luke just shooting haphazardly at the surface of the DS1 at one point just to take out a single gunner crew by chance (right before the “I got a little cooked, but I’m okay” scene) It’s the perfect setup tbh; a “hidden in plain sight” situation, and it’s wonderful IMO both tactics-wise and design-wise.

[@tarfeef101]

Obv the best star wars battle moment is "I'll try spinning, that's a good trick"

[@hibanasan_ow]

Underrated rated moment in a space battle: Battle over Scarif, fighter squadron organization. It isn’t a cluster of randomly assorted vehicles, but clearly delineated task forces and squads in organized formations that hold formation as best as they can during the fight. The only exception is Blue Squadron, since they get split up by the closing of the field aperture. ANH did a little organization, but every other SW space fight completely forgets to do this and it blows my mind since SW is essentially a Western movie planetside and a WWII dogfighting movie in space battles. They nail one but drop the other except in R1 and I think that’s why Scarif’s space battle will always be the most memorable and bombastic to me. Sure, Rebels win the decisive early action because of Imperial incompetence, but they also win the fight due to demonstrable prowess and organization. Every other movie? Fur balls. Fur balls everywhere.

[@SamwiseOutdoors]

An Oreo trench implies that we could take two Executors, split them in half, scrape the dreamy creamy trench gubbins out of one and pile them up in the second.

[@SephirothRyu]

So THAT is why the eclipse is so thick.

[@SamwiseOutdoors]

@@SephirothRyu Yup! Eclipse is just a spicy Mega-Stuffed Executor!

[@BierBart12]

"Oreo trench" is now also what I'll see the star destroyer trench things as.

[@nathanskeen5865]

What movie/show are the mon cala vs eclipse/star destroyers clips from? I’ve seen them in a ton of your videos but have no idea where it’s from. Fan film or cannon I’ve just never heard of?

[@igncom1]

WW1 ships often had their guns on the inside of the armoured hull in a Casemate or something similar as opposed to putting them outside in a turret. There are many star wars ship lasers that are like this. Basically making up the secondary, and sometimes even the primary, armament for use in broadsides and for faster firing weapons to engage smaller ships and in star wars's case fightercraft. Venators and Providence at the battle of Coruscant had impressive rows of Casemate turbo lasers for their broadside actions which far outstripped whatever gun turrets they had on the outside of their armoured hull.

[@wanderingthedesert5599]

I know I'm a bit late to the party, but closeup photography the Liberty's filming model for Return of the Jedi DOES reveal turbolaser batteries externally mounted on top of some of the blisters throughout the hull. The problem is that because these were built at a certain scale, they couldn't withstand extreme closeups. The idea of having a moveable gun turret firing and being clearly in focus would've necessitated building a section of the ship that could withstand that kind of scrutiny. Really, outside of the ISD II's big guns and the Corvette's turbolasers, we don't really see cap ship guns up close and personal until the prequels and beyond.

[@ashesrising3257]

I have not seen a single Eckhart video where I don’t hear the ISD mentioned at least once. I love that

[@darkoblade759]

how many Scorpenek annihilator droid would it take to destroy a umbaran mobile heavy cannon

[@OR56]

I really think it sucks that the Rouge Squadron movie was cancelled.

[@joshcarrico1210]

Any love here for the Willow trailer? As for underrated moment...I don't know if it counts as a moment, but I love the sounds of the comms channels on the Rebel ships during the Battle of Yavin and the brilliant little bit of sound design where the lines of dialogue are broken from a clear audio as we are in the cockpit of the pilot speaking, switching to the phased comms audio as we hear the end of the line in another pilot's cockpit. Just a fantastic touch from (I'm assuming) Ben Burtt that makes the battle seem so much more real.

[@keithtorgersen9664]

I never would have thought that any ship would have had a garden in the center, that’s pretty awesome.

[@HossBlacksilver]

I believe these guns would fall under the classification of a casement gun, which would have had the emplacement built into the ship for protection as opposed to turrets like the heavy batteries on the upper hull of the Star Destroyers.

[@MissionReloadedGaming]

my favorite moments for starfighters in starwars are any moment that it make me feel like I am playing TIE FIGHTER again. the Xwing moment you talked about, or the bombing run on the ISD made by the Ywings in Rogue One as well. then there is that moment when Luke is trying to get a lock on a Tie in A New Hope. the targeting reticle goes green then he fires and the tie goes up in smoke. every time I see it, I hear the targeting sound go tone in Starwars Tie Fighter. Unfortunate we dont have too many great tie fighter moments but I understand that most of the shots are from the rebels point of view.

[@DB6195]

You actually see Profundity broadsiding the shield gate when we first cut back to the Rebel Fleet after they drop out of hyperspace. Most of the YT super cuts skip this but you can see it in the movie full.

[@problemecium]

"...so you don't have to go to your DVD collection..." \*already pulling out collector's edition Star Wars Trilogy VHS set from 1997\*

[@MrTimelord77]

Can you please explain the imaginary switch in X-Wings. Every movie you see a pilot locking their 'S' foils into attack position with something on the cockpit that is often shown to be bare. How does the process work?

[@chrisrd4]

A very iconic starship moment for me was is Rogue One when they used the Hammerhead to crash an ISD into another ISD. Innovative use of smaller ships to deal critical damage to Imperial vessels was a defining feat in some of the books and games so this was awesome on the big screen.

[@grandadmiralzaarin4962]

I do wish someone would add in more laser shots between the capital ships!

[@SergeiMosin]

The Rise of the Resistance ride even shows guns on raceways inside a star destroyer, so we know interior guns are, canonically, a thing

[@witherpool]

I really like the scene in ep 3 were the Invisible hand and captain Piets Venator are passing by each other and have a heavy cannon fight like 2 real ships with gunpowder cannons like we saw in the pirates of the Caribbean movies

[@SacredCowShipyards]

It stands to reason that the larger the ship, the more weapons will be contained inside rather than bolted to the exterior. Not only do you have more volume to play around with (reducing the need for external mounting), you have more armor to hide behind Granted, there's a trade-off there with limited firing arcs and so forth, as well as potentially complicating repairs. Of course, with the MonCal, so many bets are off on their designs in general.

[@PetersaberHD]

Blue Squadron remnant X-Wing ruining an ISD Shield Array while dodging three TIE Fighters was badass, especially followed up by the Y-Wing ion torpedo run.

[@Insanerobert44]

To be honest, the early Star Wars movies were made in a time when Special Effects were still made predominantly with practical effects. And for George Lucas it was more important to look dramatic rather than looking authentic, especially since the movie was made with the idea that you're watching it in the theatre and not on a personal screen, where you have access to previews, stopping the movie, studying it frame by frame etc. Today, we have access to various 3D tools to re-model the entire cruiser up to the smallest details - and I would love to see how people envision those blisters as weapon stations/arrays.

[@zacharypederson6816]

I love how Lucas took inspiration for space battles from WW2 era naval combat, where battleships were taking shots where they could, but the big hitters were the fighters and the torpedo bombers.

[@getawaydance]

My fav shot was from Rogue One where you sit inside an x-wing cockpit and go into hyperspace and end up in the battle for the shield generator. Looked freaking amazing in IMAX. Felt like you sat inside the cockpit.

[@chriscummings4206]

I think the ion cannons and turbos are kept inside to facilitate maintenance and to keep them warm. There’s also the idea that if at all possible to keep the guns of a ship quiet while the Star fighters are brawling it out to reduce the chances of friendly fire! In the comic about the days before the events in ROTJ the Star Destroyer “Devastator”, Darth Vader’s old ship, finds the Rebel fleet at Sullust and launches the new TIE interceptors to soften up the capital ships before a barrage of Turbolaser fire! Of course each encounter in the Star Wars galaxy would differ depending upon each situation and the those in command of each side of the battle. We know a scoundrel such as Han Solo is more willing to take risks, even just to see how far he can push his luck...to help out his friends!

[@DevilPogoStick]

If Mon Calamari ships indeed doesn't have any weapons...Then wow, I definitely would say the force is constantly on the Rebellion's side throughout this entire war for the sheer brass ones they're carrying on every battle.

[@hanzzel6086]

Those aren't balls of brass. They are straight up hauling planetary cores around!

[@callumpears1523]

My favourite space battle moment is probably the Invisible Hand vs Guarlara over Coruscant. I love seeing the turbolasers on each ship doing some real damage, especially in the exterior shot of the ships passing each other where you can see debris flying off. As for one that's a little less common, possibly in the Battle of Nar Shaddaa from A.C. Crispin's Han Solo trilogy where a Dreadnought Heavy Cruiser is sent spiralling into the planetary shield. I found that whole sequence (and tbh the trilogy) to be really well-written.

[@007racerdude]

Something else to note. It makes a lot of sense for mon Cala ships to have internal weapons cause they are also underwater city ships. So you wouldn’t want important weapons to get flooded out with weapons so keep them inside.

[@daveyb454]

I always took it as too many friendly fighters flying around. End of the day. A fighter won't take a hit from a cap that well. And the alliance can't afford to kill there fighters accidentally

[@Talon1124]

My defining moment might be a really iconic one... it's thr Battle of Yavin, right at the start when the fighters invert and dive through the magnetic field. Just. The feeling of desperstion, and that little.glimmer of hope really hits me every time.

[@MartinGreywolf]

There's this strategy game, Star Wars: Empire at War that lets you build Mon Cal cruisers, and you better believe they have guns. It's been a while since I played that game, but IIRC they were best standard capital ship in the game (best as in best in a 1v1, they were pretty expensive), especially because their shield emmiters were internal and couldn't therefore be bombed.

[@myhillsperformance4539]

I recently rewatched episode 6 and I noticed that the ISD’s were order to NOT engage with the rebel fleet by the emperor because the Death Star 2 was operational

[@VictoryFireStudios]

5:20 lmao, they got like an biosphere in their ship 😆

[@incompletemachine877]

I feel like there is an in universe technical argument for internal mounted cannons, and its the Mandator dreadnought Vs one dude in a x-wing

[@eddy_malouempereur_du_cong6536]

Imagine bring a giant ship to a major space battle with no weapon

[@joejaboy]

My favorite moment is when the Invisible Hand and the Venator Star Destroyer exchange fire during the Battle of Coruscant in Revenge of the Sith.

[@nickvinsable3798]

Just after the Battle of Endor, as the Rebel Alliance made their offensive, an Imperial Officer, a Cathar, a devout student of Thrawn, is in command of a Titan-class over his home world of Cathar. He is in the middle of releasing all Imperials who wish to go home, when the Rebel Fleet arrives. This Cathar, the Rightful ruler of his planet by both blood & by Palpatine, is a realist, not an idealist, he is willing to accept defeat on Reasonable terms, but the Rebels’ demands to not let his men leave & go home peacefully is why he’ll hold his ground as long as he can. When the Rebels got within range, he unleashes his surprise, instead of TIEs, they’re starfighters built by TransGalMeg, MandalMotors, & even his own people, the Cathar; they’re shielded, unlike the Imperial TIEs, thus the Rebel task force was overwhelmed. But because this Cathar Prince (hasn’t passed the trials to earn the title of King) was a student of Thrawn, he unleashed his next surprise: boarding/hijacking ships, dropping out of hyperspace behind the Rebels, which maneuvered into positions where the rebels couldn’t shoot without risking friendly fire, & began their disabling actions to ensure their capture. There is more, but its not a space battle, & its going to be more Adult than Princess Leia’s time with Jabba 😏…

[@aaronbates4848]

Jesse, what the heck are you talking about?

[@nickvinsable3798]

#AskEck wanted to know what our favorite space battle was, & so I gave it, @@aaronbates4848…

[@aaronbates4848]

@@nickvinsable3798 I must be OOTL, when did that happen in Star Wars?

[@nickvinsable3798]

After the Battle of Endor, @@aaronbates4848.

[@aaronbates4848]

@@nickvinsable3798 .