The One Thing Holding Back Gotham Knights' Story

A look at the fundamental problem with the story of Gotham Knights and how it can be fixed.
#gothamknights

[@malenkiy3642]

The biggest thing holding back the story for me is how close the Bat Family actually is. I expected them to have a lot more conflict and focus more on learning how to work together for the first time. I would've like to see Batman's death affect Robin and Batgirl first and foremost, then compound that with Red Hood being more active and killing more criminals against Batman's wishes. Then Nightwing would return from Bludhaven(?) to mourn with the rest of the family, as well as remember the fight he had with Batman before he left, and maybe even taking up the mask. Then as the Bat family is all together nearly cutting at each other's throats, the League of Assassin's and Court of Owls make their moves to destroy/control the city, forcing the team to put aside their differences for the time being. Overall, the story was way too lighthearted for me and I expected a lot more conflict between the Bat Family.

[@carolapasten832]

I love your video’s

[@vigil7924]

Thanks so much

[@arcanepayaso]

I haven't played or seen much of the game but yeah for a team oriented story there doesn't seem to be a lot of team elements to the story. It sounds like it took a team and instead of showing you how well they work together and tight-knit they are, relied on you the player to have friends to play with to show the teamwork thru co-op. Your solution sounds pretty good if we just take what the game gave us and make the best of it in a single player experience

[@bipolarmadness5075]

Even in coop the cutscenes will only show one of the characters, as if your coop partner didnt exist. They just poof out until gameplay returns.

[@jaxxpool9630]

I think the biggest problem with the game the direction of the plot in the last quarter of the main story. As someone who would go out to defend the game, I'm very frustrated with how they made Talia Al Ghul the main villain after you capture Jacob Kane. Not saying it completely breaks the game though. The plot around the Court of Owls was pretty decent and I was really invested in the Bat Family as characters, but everything starting with the end of case file 6 is just terrible from my perspective. What I would've done is keep the Court as the antagonists and completely scrap Talia. The League of Assassins could still be in the game, but to a lesser extent. I would still have a final boss with Batman except this time, he would be brought back as a Talon and wears a Talon batsuit. There would also be a moment where the Knights have an antidote or something to cure Bruce, but they have to use it to stop the Court from using the Dionesium. So the Knights would have to put Bruce to rest and lose their chance of bringing him back. Imagine how impactful that would be. Another thing is I don't mind only having one Knight in a mission for most of the game. Something I would change is having all the Knights go out together starting with case file 5, but they get split up during missions. That way you can have all the protagonists present while still doing different cutscenes with each character.

[@chrismoore5333]

The main story was basically just about Jason Todd. Oh and this version of batgirl was terrible.

[@bipolarmadness5075]

Its kind of weird the direction they went storywise of having multiple characters for the reason of coop but leaving them behind when it comes to the main narrative. The game would have had a more cohesive narrative of working as a team if the characters were a part together on the same missions and cutscenes, even if the player is playing alone with no coop having them around and fighting alongside you. Considering also that the game has shoddy rpg elements into it, it would have been interesting that the equipment that you give to other characters affects them if they fight alongside you as bots. Something along the lines of Mass Effect where your squadmates have their own abilities with long cooldowns but still effective to help you out when called forth. Or like in previous Arkham games, being able to change characters mid fight through combos to enrich the feeling of the Batfamily working together and force the player in a way to synergize each character in their own playthrough. This whole system being replace the moment you decide to play coop and see how other players have their own characters. Sadly in game even when playing coop with other people ALL cutscenes and how the game plays itself cares about the host of the game. Which means that playing solo and playing coop is the same experience, showing only the main character that the host is playing and not caring to even show a small glimpse of your coop parthner. Like not even showing them around standing or circling, its as if they dont exist at all. I mean FFS, Mortal Kombat Shaolin Monks all the way back in 2005 that small differences in action cut scenes when playing coop or solo, where if you play solo its only your character doing cool stuff but if you were playing coop your parthner character could be seen also doing cool stuff in the same scene. And of course when it came to cut scenes involving talking and plot BOTH characters are in it always. --- For a better experience involving caring about each of the characters the Developers could have taken inspiration from previous Ubisoft title (ironic and weird taking inspiration from them, I know) Assassins Creed Syndicate. In Syndicate you play as 2 siblings teaming up fighting the templars in London, but the game is not coop. The reason why I am bringing it up is because each of the siblings has their own way of doing things and their own main missions. So while Jacob (the brother) is fighting and doing his own thing, Evie (the sister) is investigating leads somewhere else, and you get to see all of it until both reunite again to do a main mission together involving what they have been doing before, allowing them to interact with one another and still show they are a team. Finish that main mission and repeat again "lets separate to look for clues" routine again. That way each member of the Batfamily would have their own cutscenes if it was slightly force on the player to play as another player. Having to take them out of their comfort zone of only playing as one single character throught the whole game. Each having their own dialogues, and their own struggles. If you want to still allow for coop or ability to chose who to play on, then by having 4 characters you can split them in teams of 2 each for narrative purposes, where the personalities of each pair make it the focus of the mission and how they work. So by this method each of them has a mission where they pair with another Knight at least once. So the devs would only need to make a minimum of 6 missions with this format, and have the 4 all together for the finale or some important missions. Not necessarily gameplay wise having them 4, but please at least cut scenes. Because the game feels incredibly barren and lonely even in coop in the cut scenes in how they are, and we already have the 2 previous examples of years old videogames that Devs can freaking do it.

[@nnnnmhughuuhhjiijj9457]

Man, you got this whole thing figured out.

[@bipolarmadness5075]

@@nnnnmhughuuhhjiijj9457 I have Game/Dungeon Master multiple tabletopRPG games on and off the years. Knowing how to engage people and your players in a coop enviroment while making sure every character and player has their good share of screenlight and feel part of a team comes with the trade I guess. I dont know how to code, but I know how to make an interesting coop experience.

[@sep2301]

Given Jacob Kane's involvement in the game I'm shocked that Batwoman isn't involved at all.

[@jim-bob3093]

Im 90% sure the writers only read like 3 n52 stories. Cause everyone felt so flat

[@Okkotsu86275]

I have been going back and forth on getting this game. One moment I'm fairly interested the next I'm totally not. This has to be the most indecisive I've been on getting a superhero game 😅

[@vigil7924]

I'd recommend trying it out especially when it's on sale. While it has a bit of a slow start, it can get really enjoyable once you really get into it. The game has problems, but it's still a lot of fun.

[@Okkotsu86275]

@@vigil7924 I was thinking about that, waiting on the game to get a bit cheaper before copping. I did always plan to play it eventually. Thanks for the honest feedback.

[@ibrahimsoualhi7735]

@@Okkotsu86275 there's a pirated version available. You can try it as a sort of demo and see if you like it enough to buy a legitimate copy, especially for the co-op experience.

[@etabiansosin]

How would you rewrite Gotham Knights?

[@vigil7924]

The problem I am referring to in the video has to do with the fact that the personal stories are side missions rather than being part of the main story. So my solution is not so much of a rewrite as it is a change in the overall structure, and this solution is found starting at 5:11, though the proper information and context needed is all the stuff before that.

[@etabiansosin]

@@vigil7924 Okay.

[@JPwiththeL]

​@@vigil7924 definitely agree. Game was solid yes but could have been implemented a bit better

[@Email.comGiovannibramblia2]

They need to upgrade the whole entire game!

[@mikhaelgribkov4117]

The issue is the fact that each story mission needs to account each differences when somebody plays any character, making a big deal of resources animating movements, voice lines and trying to make it cohesives enough that you don't need to straight rework model movements and voice for people they're talking too. The concept is way too ambitious and considering how this game clearly from looks and leaks was reinvented 3 times at least with behind the scenes bs happening with WB, I can see why not all of it comes together.

[@bulletxwound3559]

The character writing in this game was really bad. Especially tim and jason. Tim was so cringy, whiney and stupid. This game was also mad corny, jason having a ptsd attack while playing let's dance had me rolling my eyes so hard. Legit felt like some lame Disney channel shit

[@Paradox-es3bl]

Let you know what I think? Pfft. As if I played it. It should've been an Arkham follow-up and I had little to no interest after it was announced it wasn't. Had a little hope it would be good, anyway... but then we got Avengers, and I knew this would end up lacking.

[@koegz]

Ik everyone wanted a coop batman game, but it should’ve been made single player

[@trashboat9035]

Keep it up man!

[@NoThankYouToo]

Lackluster

[@ratatoskrnuts6354]

They should've made a few character exclusive missions in addition to making the side stories part of the main story. Also, make a few partner or full-team missions.

[@nnnnmhughuuhhjiijj9457]

This game is a good example of a lot of elements done competently but just not clicking and jelling well-together.

[@SarcasticDuck]

Ever played any "Tales of" game? The way it presents this kinda moments where you can see some side moment from a character's day to day life is by giving you a simple prompt when you get to a point in the story. You can ignore it or click the button to play that cutscene

[@vigil7924]

No I haven't, but I'll look into it for sure!

[@Nevad25]

"The One Thing Holding Back Gotham Knights' Story": There's no Batman. Bam. I don't care about the Batfamily, I care about Bruce Wayne.

[@vigil7924]

I feel like you can still make a great story with these characters, but I also understand that it's harder for people to get invested in the batfamily

[@chrismoore5333]

@@vigil7924 I actually think the people behind the batfamily personas are generally better. Red hood and nightwing in particular. But batman is the better persona.