The Origins of the Israel/Palestine Conflict

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[@ThenNow]

Sources/reading list (which I will continue to add to): www.thenandnow.co/2023/11/05/making-sense-of-israel-and-palestine/ A Note on Expertise: www.thenandnow.co/2023/11/09/a-note-on-expertise/ Patreon members: www.patreon.com/thenandnow

[@alexanderfuchs8742]

really not a bad video but if you mention the Mufti as the leader of the Palestinians (really put into his position by the British anyway), why not mention the dealings between ethno-nationalist zionists with the nazi regime to facilitate jewish migration to Palestine? another fascinating complication within this tragic history ...

[@sekedad4819]

@@alexanderfuchs8742 because that was a tiny fringe, and not the representative government of an entire population. It’s also a bizarre deflection that seeks to portray Jews as somehow “getting what was coming” by “collaborating” with Nazis, which is ahistorical and repugnant

[@alexanderfuchs8742]

@sekedad4819 a) a british-installed theocratic leader is your idea of a "representative government"? b) this is a vile accusation and i'm asking you to take it back. i'm glad you're not disputing the historical record, since what i've mentioned did occur to some extent. my message did not however imply that "the jews had it coming" (wtf, thats pure distortion and misinterpretation!?!), but rather (if anything) it expresses a compatibilty between the goals of different ethno-nationalist ideologies. c) i'd guess that these zionist extremists would argue that those innocent victims of nazi terror who stayed in europe "had it coming" for trying to assimilate and not being sufficiently nationalist ... wouldn't you agree? d) i don't think that my remark was trivial either. showing images of a palestinian "leader" shaking hands with AH implies some sort of working-relationship between the two. it seems rather tendencious to imply any such collaboration (no matter how non-consequential their meeting may have been), without showing an actual working-relationship between zionist entities and the nazi-regime, however fringe ... therefore i'd only say that in an historical account detailed enough to mention the Mufti (who plays no other role here than to link the palestinian people with nazism), one could expect to see similar associations and collaborations mentioned, if they did indeed occur, which you don't seem to dispute ... if you say this is trivial, then i'd call the Mufti trivial, if you deem the Mufti essential, i'd insist that zionists making common cause with the biggest enemy of the jewish people in getting jews out of germany and into british-mandate-palestine is *at least* as essential to the story, because it highlights the fanaticism and the lengths that have been gone to by ideologically highly relevant and sucessful actors. conclusion: this is not a "bizarre deflection" but a comment highlighting a missed historeographical opportunity to hold two peoples to the same standard (albeit through the questionable mechanism of guilt-by-association in one case, versus the highly relevant one of guilt-by-cooperation in ethnic cleansing). as a matter of fact i am outraged by the fact that you completely disregard the distinction between "jewish people" and "zionist extremists" and treat my comment like i wss talking about the former, not the latter. similarly i am outraged by the crime of nazi collaboration from within the ethno-nationalist fringe of the zionist movement and would like to see it mentioned as part of any such detailed historical account, since i - in contrast to you - don't deem it insignificant, but rather an expression of a sick prioritization of the project of a jewish ethno-nationalist-state over the well-being of jewish life anywhere else in the world. i would however agree with the criticism, that i used the word "migration" instead of "deportation" which perhaps would have been more adequate. moreover, i asked a question "why not mention ...?" and i am sticking to that question. thank you for your attention. p.s. i am hoping for peace, a just solution and the protection of life. i am not opposing the jewish right to statehood per se, but think it shouldn't come at the expense of palestinians life and human rights. that's the condition. why punish them for the crimes that we (germans/europeans) committed? doesn't feel like justice to me. idk

[@yuval1716]

Zionism is an ancient Jewish ideology and a biblical commandment that says Jews should be in Zion. Zion is the holiest place for Jews in the world and Zion is synonymous with Jerusalem. The best parallel to Zionism is the desire of the Muslims to rule and make a pilgrimage to Mecca, that's exactly it! Jews go to the holiest place for Jews in the world, which is Zion. To say that the aspiration of Jews to go to Zion has nothing to do with Judaism is like saying that the aspiration of Muslims to go to Mecca has nothing to do with Islam. Zionism has existed for over 3000 years. People get confused between the ancient Zionist ideology and Herzl's political Zionist movement, which are two completely different things.

[@anthonyalvarado7288]

A DNA TEST SHOULD END THE ARGUMENT ABOUT WHO REALLY HAS THE RIGHT TO CLAIM PALESTINE

[@illexpreshun]

That Churchill quote is one of the most deliberate, blatant admissions of racist conviction I've heard from a world leader within this century.

[@rarespetrescu5344]

Well, he was known for being a racist and alcoholic, and sucking at war. He just won the war and was a good political figure, but that wasn't enough to keep the british happy. They voted him out the first time they had the canche.

[@brianbooth9860]

I genuinely couldn’t believe Churchill said that

[@Reek151]

What did he say ?I missed it.

[@Argacyan]

@@Reek151 22:30

[@RichardOmier]

Was horrified by this. This is aggressive white supremacy. Also the dog metaphor. Yikes. Examples of how white supremacy is perpetuated.

[@kevnev342]

You could argue that Churchill was a product of his time, but at his core he was a ghastly, ignorant, evil, and extremely racist individual.

[@chimchim2_]

Indeed

[@MrMerajjio]

But what about his negative traits?

[@MinimaAmoralia]

@@QuietlyHere666 well, morals are not discoverable individually, they are a sociological product that continuously evolves. I think when people use the "of the time" defense, they mean exactly that

[@DanSchiferGcovers]

As an italian, we've always been taught in school how great Churchill was while he explicitly admired Mussolini at the same time. Noone never showed or was allowed to underline this cognitive dissonance.

[@laerin7931]

I think even for his time he was a fringe extremist who wasn't very popular due to his extreme war-mongering. It's just that when the war did start, he suddenly looked way more appealing and shot into prominence.

[@matthemming9105]

Trying to offer a truly nuanced approach to this conflict is like trying to thread the eye of a needle by moonlight. Well done, Then & Now. Thank you for the work that you do.

[@mysticjedi6730]

Nationalism, territorial expansion and religion caused many wars. The solution is to reject these, , race supremacy, etc. Long story short

[@terjeoseberg990]

The residents can move someplace else.

[@terjeoseberg990]

Israel should relocate Gaza to Jordan.

[@terjeoseberg990]

Push them into Egypt. Egypt can then deport them to Jordan.

[@snackdawg8417]

@@terjeoseberg990calm down there hitler

[@accountabilitypartnerscomm7635]

What I appreciate about this video is a feeling like you're encouraging people to investigate for themselves but planting sign-posts along the way like a good guide. It's like teaching people how to study history and you're guiding them to do that for themselves well.

[@glennbarrow8325]

I am Israel. I came to a land without a people for a people without a land. Those people who happened to be here, had no right to be here, and my people showed them they had to leave or die, razing 400 Palestinian villages to the ground, erasing their history. I am Israel. Some of my people committed massacres and later became Prime Ministers to represent me. In 1948, Menachem Begin was in charge of the unit that slaughtered the inhabitants of Deir Yassin, including 100 women and children. In 1953, Ariel Sharon led the slaughter of the inhabitants of Qibya, and in 1982 arranged for our allies to butcher around 2,000 in the refugee camps of Sabra and Shatila. I am Israel. Carved in 1948 out of 78% of the land of Palestine, dispossessing its inhabitants and replacing them with Jews from Europe and other parts of the world. While the natives whose families lived on this land for thousands of years are not allowed to return, Jews from all over the world are welcome to instant citizenship. I am Israel. In 1967, I swallowed the remaining lands of Palestine - East Jerusalem, the West Bank and Gaza - and placed their inhabitants under an oppressive military rule, controlling and humiliating every aspect of their daily lives. Eventually, they should get the message that they are not welcome to stay, and join the millions of Palestinian refugees in the shanty camps of Lebanon and Jordan. I am Israel. I have the power to control American policy. My American Israel Public Affairs Committee can make or break any politician of its choosing, and as you see, they all compete to please me. All the forces of the world are powerless against me, including the UN as I have the American veto to block any condemnation of my war crimes. As Sharon so eloquently phrased it, “We control America”. I am Israel. I influence American mainstream media too, and you will always find the news tailored to my favor. I have invested millions of dollars into PR representation, and CNN, New York Times, and others have been doing an excellent job of promoting my propaganda. Look at other international news sources and you will see the difference. I am Israel. You Palestinians want to negotiate “peace!?” But you are not as smart as me; I will negotiate, but will only let you have your municipalities while I control your borders, your water, your airspace and anything else of importance. While we “negotiate,” I will swallow your hilltops and fill them with settlements, populated by the most extremist of my extremists, armed to the teeth. These settlements will be connected with roads you cannot use, and you will be imprisoned in your little Bantustans between them, surrounded by checkpoints in every direction. I am Israel. I have the fourth strongest army in the world, possessing nuclear weapons. How dare your children confront my oppression with stones, don’t you know my soldiers won’t hesitate to blow their heads off? In 17 months, I have killed 900 of you and injured 17,000, mostly civilians, and have the mandate to continue since the international community remains silent. Ignore, as I do, the hundreds of Israeli reserve officers who are now refusing to carry out my control over your lands and people; their voices of conscience will not protect you. I am Israel. You want freedom? I have bullets, tanks, missiles, Apaches and F-16s to obliterate you. I have placed your towns under siege, confiscated your lands, uprooted your trees, demolished your homes, and you still demand freedom? Don’t you get the message? You will never have peace or freedom, because I am Israel.

[@zarbins]

Also known as propaganda. Yes, investigate for yourself, but follow this narrowly constructed path as I've laid it out for you.

[@glennbarrow8325]

@@zarbins THE TRUE STORY regarding PALESTINE -Palestine is the land of the Prophets. -Jews have no rights in Palestine -Palestine is for Palestinians -Jerusalem is the capital of Palestine -There is no country of Israel Some of the Prophets who lived in Palestine are: Ibrahim (Abraham) Lot Ishmael Ishaq (Isaac) Ya'qoob (Jacob) Yusuf (Joseph) Daud (David) Solomon Zakariyyah (Zachariah) Yahya (John) {May the peace and blessing of Allah be upon them) Ibrahim(Abraham) has two sons: 1. Ismael 2. Isaac Isaac's son was Jacob(Ya'qoob) where most of the Prophets came from his lineage such as Yusuf(Joseph),Daud(David),Sulaiman(Solomon),Zakariyyah(Zacarias),Musa(Moses) and Yahya (John). The second name of Prophet Ya'qoob(Jacob) is ISRAEL so his clans are called BANU ISRAEL(Son's of Israel). Also, accordingly, ISRAEL means Abdullah (servant of Allah). But the tribe of Israel has been known for disobedience and stubbornness where they oppose and kill their own Prophets sent to them except for a small number them, this is how the Quran describes them. Among their disobedience are: -They disobeyed Prophet Solaiman (Solomon) -They disobeyed Prophet Musa (Moses) -They disobeyed Prophet Eisa (Jesus) -They killed Prophet Yahya (John) -They killed Prophet Zacariah (Zacarias). THAT'S WHY ALLAH PUNISHED THEM. THEIR PUNISHMENT IS THAT, THEY WOULD HAVE NO LAND IN THIS WORLD EXCEPT THOSE WHO BELIEVE. What happened to them for several centuries is that wherever they ended up in the middle east after the time of Prophet Eisa (Jesus), others went to Europe and America. In World War II between the years 1941 and 1945 the Holocaust occurred where nearly 6 million Jews died in Europe at the hands of Adolf Hitler of Germany. The reason for Adolf Hitler's great anger towards the Jews is about politics and religion where the Jews believe that people who do not belong to them are animals or the lowest creatures, because they believe that they are the chosen people who chosen by Allah, so Hitler did this to them. They only got land in Palestine because GREAT BRITAIN took pity on them where it was recommended to the UNITED NATIONS and the UN immediately received it in the year 1947, because the Jews also served for a long time in Great Britain. In the following year (1948) the Zionist Jews immediately declared their own country in Palestine which they called ISRAEL where it seemed as if they only arrived in Palestine as refugees until they gradually expanded their land to conquer in the lands of the Palestinians in a violent and forced way, at the same time they gathered all the Jews around the world where before they would have been scattered because of the punishment of Allah. This is where the Arab countries intervened and there was a war that has not ended until now between the JEWS and the ARABS. Apart from this conflict, the Jews also do not respect the Arabs because they believe that they are the only believers, so they did not believe in Prophet Muhammad SAW and it was easy for them to kill Arab Muslims. Why? Prophet Ismael, the brother of Prophet Isaac, is the son of Hajar, the second wife of Prophet Ibrahim, who used to be the maid of Sarah, who was the mother of Prophet Isaac, the first wife of Prophet Ibrahim (according to their history). And after the reign of the clans of Isaac in which the last Prophet among them was Prophet Eisa (Jesus), Allah gave this promise to the clan of Prophet Ismael where the last prophet and Messenger would come from his clan. Prophet Muhammad SAW. Because the last Prophet did not come from the family of Isaac, the Jews did not believe, believing that Prophet Ismael was inferior compared to their ancestor, Prophet Isaac, the son of Prophet Ibrahim's first wife, besides that, they really are people who disobeys, even to the early Prophets. In other words, the ongoing conflict between Jews and Arab Muslims is about religion and history. Palestine is a place of Arab Muslims, and the believers in the clans of Israel, it does not include those who disobey, they are not among in the promise of Allah. There are three existing religions in Palestine: 1. Judaism 2. Christianity 3. Islam WHY ARE THE CHRISTIANS IN PALESTINE NOT INCLUDED IN THE ENEMY OF THE PALESTINIAN MUSLIMS? Christians are not like Jews, where Jews are worse but they are the same race, Jews also consider Christians as enemies because they did not really believe in Prophet Eisa (Jesus), they are the ones who accused Mary committing adultery (Zina) and Prophet Eisa (Jesus) was a child of zina (adultery), so a great miracle happened from Allah where Prophet Eisa spoke when he was a baby to refute what the Jews were saying and prove the innocence of his mother. WHY DO THEY WANT TO TAKE JERUSALEM WHERE MASJID AL-AQSA IS LOCATED? They believe that here is the very temple of Prophet Solaiman that was destroyed and replaced by masjeds, so this is what they want to restore from its original, but if you go back to history and the books you will not find any solid evidence about the temple that they claim. Rather, the Masjid Al-aqsa is the one that was built by Prophet Adam and rebuilt by Prophet Solaiman. And they have no right to it because they also disobeyed Prophet Solaiman as we mentioned.

[@HeilIsrael]

@@zarbinsare you trying to reference the video? He literally stated historical facts only… maybe threw in like a couple questions and general thoughts.

[@philswift1]

The more and more I learn about Winston Churchill, the more evil he is. When you’re younger all anyone says is how great he was in Ww2 and never elaborates. I wonder why

[@jacktran7024]

he lead britian to defeat a bigger racist

[@nuggets0717]

Great further reading on him - the Bengal famine.

[@philswift1]

@@nuggets0717 yeah that’s one of the things that people leave out when teaching ww2

[@manafish8732]

iirc he was personally involved in village burning campaigns and stuff in india. he was an awful person

[@imgzrona09uc72]

He was human, he was flawed, but he served his nation well in WWII. Imagine our world had England settled with Germany before Pearl Harbor. Assuming only that change it is hard to imagine what Europe, North Africa, and the Middle East would be like.

[@bean-ep2xz]

ive made a playlist of videos trying to understand the conflict in Isreal, this video is by far the easiest to understand, most detailed, and most compassionate and empathetic video of all the ones ive seen. Thank you so much for your help 🍉

[@davidburcar7620]

Ditto

[@mattbonanza9032]

I have never heard about that quote from Churchill before...Thank you for letting me know that he said this. I will remember it for the rest of my life.

[@Coco-uq5uf]

Same here 😢

[@paulamarsh1]

Please repost quote. Which one are you referring to?

[@mattbonanza9032]

@@paulamarsh1 Well you can watch the video, the quote is highlighted so it will be easy to understand which one. It stands out.

[@user-rp4ot3gr5r]

⁠​⁠@@paulamarsh1I have always heard Churchill’s quote saying that Palestinians are “like pigs in a manger”. He was a very racist and arrogant person. It is written in his book.

[@morningnapalm9963]

23:08 - Churchill sounding a lot like Adolph with this one.

[@wednes3day]

Sad thing when earlier today I heard of a Mein Kampf quote straight up concluding that Jewish people are only different by their religion and thus there's not really cause from that to dislike them. (This is of course with zero knowledge of the surrounding context including potential dog whistles at play (and of course doesn't do anything to diminish the horrors organised later); just that holy fuck that Churchill quote is messed up by comparison to even that)

[@sandwich1920]

The nazi were inspired by America laws of the 20s and 30s especially with things like Jim Crow laws

[@ismailalsomali100]

Indeed and if humanity pay more attention they will see that same ideology is present today, when the USA, UK, Canada and most of the west support The Zionist government and their atrocities against children and civilians in Palestine be assured that evil still dominates the world we live in

[@cjstevens6405]

That Churchill quote is bone-chilling.

[@Rnankn]

Chilling, but also perhaps revealing. Conservatives are historically one step away from fascism, because fundamentally they think some people are better than others, and therefore deserve more than others.

[@michellereed3272]

I knew Churchill was a flawed man, but god damn…

[@kimberIyyu]

Ugh Winston Churchill is disgusting. I’ve been looking for a video like this for a long time. Beautiful job. Thank you.

[@malcire]

Yep.

[@kwisin1337]

Everyone has a side of their lives that someone will never accept as they, them selves are unable to see without using their own eyes.

[@GA-sn1hn]

not a fair assessment of someone from 80 years ago. People love Ghandi, but he had a dark side. And just in case the word racist jumps out, everybody was and is racist and it is incurrable, because zebras will always see cheetahs for cheetahs.

[@DoctorZomboo]

So delicately done for such a messy and contentious subject, well done. So sad that the situation has got to this point and that so many innocent lives are being cut short

[@PAPO9609]

As a Mexican with Lebanese ancestry I really related to this video. My family fled Lebanon (Ottoman Empire) before WW1 broke out, so my grandparents wouldn´t be drafted. Impoverished, they arrived in Yucatán with nothing. Some years later they grew a wealthy textile industry here. Great work mate!

[@mikexstad1121]

Selma Hayek is famously Lebanese-Mexican

[@MelGibsonFan]

@@thotslayer9914There are quite a few people of Arab descent in Latin America and they are relatively well off as a demographic. Both Salma Hayek and Shakira if I recall correctly are of Lebanese descent.

[@MelGibsonFan]

@@thotslayer9914 it’s a primarily Arab nation but tbf, I think the common trait shared by those migration waves was that they were escaping the ottomans.

[@samehsuliman]

​@@thotslayer9914 they are Arab, it's not about blod

[@aromirsauro9092]

So you are a colonizer also. Yucatan belongs to the indigenous ppl of Mexico and not conquistadors. Your family was 'impoverished' but better well off than the indigenous indians living there and fully took advantage of it. Even though your family didn't kill any indigenous ppl you still benefited from a system of colonization. You are no different from the Jews/Zionists. Don't sound all innocent. You are not!!

[@rafaelarevalo8047]

I understand you touched briefly on the new historians, but I wish you had had the chance to review Ilan Pappé's work. His book "The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine" is a damning telling of the level of brutality used in the Nakba to clear the indigenous population off their land. Hundreds of villages raided. Some of the most shocking stories told. The documents used to write the book were declassified and then later reclassified. It's a shocking and necessary book. He also has a couple videos on KZbin going over the subject. Thank you for the video and I await the next one.

[@edwardmiller4190]

it's all lies

[@rafaelarevalo8047]

@@edwardmiller4190 tell me one of them

[@robford3211]

@edwardmiller 4500 dead babies and counting don’t like … If Israeli politicians are idiotic enough to think that by slaughter of innocent they will get compliance by the Palestinians then they are more delusional then the insane in the psychiatric hospitals

[@shalevshimoni5008]

​@@edwardmiller4190 He's a propogandist for palestinian and arab narrative that is all based on lies. He didn't even give one word about the countless massacres, violence and ethnic cleansing of the Arabs against the Jews in British mandade of Palestine during the 1947-1948 war and even long before. For example on 24 August 1929, the Arabs attacked the Jewish quarter in Hebron,killing and raping men, women and children and looting Jewish property. They killed 65-68 Jews and wounded 58, with some of the victims being tortured, or mutilated. Sir John Chancellor, the British High Commissioner visited Hebron and later wrote to his son, "The horror of it is beyond words. In one house I visited not less than twenty-five Jews men and women were murdered in cold blood." During the 1947- 1948 war few days before Israel declared Independence, the Arabs massacred the Jewish village of Kfar Etzion, the Arabs murdered 127 men and women. Bodies lay in the fields for a year-and-a-half, until Transjordan allowed Israel to retrieve the corpses and bury them. DURING the war more than 15,000 Jews were violently expelled from Judea and Samia which later became known as the West Bank. many Jews were murdered and entire Jewish villages were destroyed. When the Arabs conquered East Jerusalem, they killed many Jews in the Jewish quarter who stayed there, Destroyed all the synagogues and many churches, and destroyed the very old Jewish quarter like they did in Hebron in 1929. AFTER the war was over the Arab states brutally expelled 900,000 Jews and thousands of Jews were murdered between the years 1948-1969. That is the real "Nakba". But most important of all people need to understand Israel isn't responsible for the brutal aggression the Arabs chose in 1947-1948 There was no ethnic cleansing against Arabs, they did it to the Jews from 1947-1969. In 1947 they started and waged a genocidal war as their leader Amin al-Husseini (who cooperated in Hitler during WW2) called it "war of annihilation" against the Jewish Yishuv after the UN decision to divide the British mandate of Palestine into two states for two people: Jewish and Arab. While the Jews accepted abd Ben Gurion called for regional Jewish-Arab cooperation, the Arabs in the British mandate refused and started a civil war. Later the entire Arab countries joined them. But make no mistake if the Arabs won they would (as they said themselves) GENOCIDE all the Jews in that land: Azzam Pasha, the General Secretary of the Arab League said It will be a war of elimination and it will be a dangerous massacre which history will record similar to the Mongol massacre or the wars of the Crusades.” Jamal Husseini, a member of the Arab leadership said “The blood will flow like rivers in the Middle East.” Prime Minister of Iraq, Nuri al-Said, made it clear that if a Jewish state was established, “We will smash the country with our guns and obliterate every place the Jews seek shelter in."). The Arabs started the war against the Jews, lost, and paid the price. 700,000 Arabs fled because their leaders told them the new state of Israel would be defeated quickly and also to avoid the fighting yes some few were expelled during the fighting as they cooperated with the enemy but it happened in every war back then. During the Greco-Turkish war (1919-1922) Approximately 1,500,000 Orthodox Christians and ethnic Greeks were uprooted from their homelands. During the partition of India and what followed the India-Pakistan war in 1947 between 10 and 20 million people were displaced. 18 million Germans were expelled by Poland and Czechoslovakia in 1945 after the war.

[@nadavev5684]

you mean ethnic cleansing like what the arabs tried to do to the jews that came to israel after the holocaust by attacking from 5 fronts with 5 armies and still loosing ? or the ethnic cleansing arabs did to their arab jews forcing them to leave for israel ? mmmm wonder why no one ever talks about that ? can it be that youre biased and brainwashed ?

[@swayp5715]

This was excellent especially your ending words and thank you very much !❤

[@gthv]

Well done. It's a difficult topic to be sure. I think your take is a great starting point for those who want to know more - and better understand - the conflict.

[@lokchucklindryfry94]

i read your post on patreon and i really appreciate your work on making a video from that. Thank you!

[@Edmonddantes123]

Maybe the topic is complex but the premise is easy: One nation giving another nation the land of a third nation

[@edwardmiller4190]

palestine was not a nation nor a people.

[@Okuni_]

​@@edwardmiller4190you are not a person

[@IceNdice93]

@@edwardmiller4190how ignorant must you be

[@DodZz666]

Really not that complex

[@DodZz666]

@@edwardmiller4190Neither was Israel , until they came and started killing all the Arabs

[@2168017]

22:36 Winston Churchill was one hell of a heartless beast.......

[@terrencebushell9588]

The most racist prime minister of all time. He wasn't a fan of the Indian either...

[@StormcrowX]

Well that was extremely racist and disturbing.

[@Khichira2012]

Thank you for your insight on this topic, we need more news like this!

[@liamrodgers48]

Thank you so much for this video, I honestly had no idea of half of this, I feel I have a much better of the situation now.

[@finneire1282]

One commenter said you were yt formatting wiki pages and a couple later someone links to wiki. This despite you citing the 3 books you chose as sources at the beginning of the video. I personally found it to be pretty fair from my own previous understanding so thank you.

[@TrippingFighter]

Incredible as usual! As a long time fan of the channel, I come to you in a time of philosophical crisis. I thought I had understood all the phases of modernity to post-modernity but a new term has creeped into the lexicon, metamodernism. Is there any way you could do a video on this concept and its origin/impact? I greatly appreciate the time and effort you put into all the videos, your one of the best.

[@user-86291]

Great to see you make a video on this

[@anthonyrau5313]

The incredible writing, your narration and the editing of these videos is out of this world. Thank you for your very important work.

[@user-nh2rj9ss8n]

Hey, I have to say I love your channel and I love the fact that you try to make everything factual and try to look at the problem with objective outlook but btw the photo that you put of former PM Rabin was actually a photo of his right hand former PM Shimon Peres

[@m.a.b.4104]

Have increased my knowledge of the history of this subject drastically in the last month (the Martyrmade podcast: Fear and Loathing in New Jerusalem was a great detailed coverage of the issue). So I feel that it is almost serendipitous timing to be able to get your perspective as I am confident that it will provide me with valuable insights as your videos always do. Thanks in advance.

[@rmd9746]

care to give us an example, a taste if you wish of what you have learned so far? Besides have you also seen multiple/opposite sources as well? Or have you took one sided word for granted as they expect you too? would be great to know more on your great learnings

[@AndyTutify]

I recommend everyone to listen to the Fear and Loathing podcast! It's really well-researched and gives a balanced account of the conflict up to the founding of Israel.

[@m.a.b.4104]

​​​@@rmd9746definitely not one sided, so many examples of sabotage and heroic actions from both sides and sometimes both occurring in individuals. One example of what I learnt is I used to think that Britain caused most of the problem till they left in 1946, but learnt that multiple times they proposed a representative legislature with both Palestinians and Jews having seats and every time it was rejected. The Brits committed many colonial evils culminating in the brutal put down of the 1938 Palestinian uprising that involved torture of civilians, this same Palestinian uprising had participants that committed many atrocities, some Jewish militia conducted terror campaigns against civilians around the same time. During riots of abhorrent mob violence from Jews and Palestinians on separate occasions, there were many instances of Palestinians using their bodies and homes to protect innocent Jews from violent Palestinian mobs and vice versa, instances of Jews protecting innocent Palestinians from violent Jewish mobs. How some brilliant people recreated an almost lost ancient language from scraps. It's a 6 part approx 20 hr podcast that doesn't "take sides" and is very informative. Recommend it, if you want to listen to it I'll repeat the title. Martyrmade: Fear and Loathing in New Jerusalem. Also learnt from recent interviews with Yuval Noah Harari and Slavoj Zizek. If someone has an open mind there are rational voices out there, just have to filter through the sea of madness.

[@WIllz2GOTA]

Hmm yes serendipitous timing, tots agree bestie

[@joey_gallant]

I ALWAYS point people to this channel when trying to understand some of the most incomprehensible conflicts in the history of humanity. Thank you so much for the work you do. This is excellent, per usual.

[@belqisy]

This channel never disappointed me! Thank you as usual sir!

[@scottspa74]

This was excellent. It is apparent that you are not taking sides, or pushing a particular narrative. How much history you were able to cover in just 40 min is impressive; not getting lost in the minutiae, and not ignoring important events, you struck a really nice balance. There were points where it wasnt clear what years you were talking about. Some kind of timeline marker would make this better, but it was very good. Thank you.

[@zarbins]

A particular narrative was pushed just watch how it ended to understand the framing. Even the lingering focus and emotional appeal made on the Churchill quote was obvious and intentional. This sort of docutainment video on KZbin is almost always narrative driven and done to serve a base of users that will pay for confirmation bias. I will say the video is compelling and well constructed though, but make no mistake, it is biased.

[@michaeljimenez3680]

​@@zarbinsthat's like saying any history that paints as Hitler as the bad guy is biased. If someone or a state is performing evil actions or making evil claims that's not being biased is telling the truth. How about you make a video and debunk his if you're so well versed in history and so unbiased I'm sure you're video won't end with any note that justifies Israel because you aren't biased

[@zarbins]

@@michaeljimenez3680 You're correct any history that only points out the ills and bad deeds of Hitler is biased and anti-germen. Of course his ascent to power and what he did for the German economy and unification of its people post WWI was palpable and should be discussed in any accurate portrayal of history. Just like Finkelstein should focus more on the numerous wars waged against Israel, the defensing posture they took, and the outcomes of said wars. As Murray said Israel is the only country not allowed to win a war. Also, he should go back further in history than 1947. Anyways, I think Finkelstein is an important voice but he has his framing, as well do. The reason for my original reply is anything foolish enough to think, "It is apparent that you are not taking sides, or pushing a particular narrative" should be corrected. I'll take your suggestion under advisement, thank you.

[@CheersClubMusic]

10:39 again …. Where the problem started , it’s crazy how somebody can take away your home then tell you how to live in it

[@shirley7089]

wasn't their land there was an ancient Hebrew Jewish kingdom there as written in the bible and proven by archeological findings over the years, they were just Arabs in a desert that's all no "land"

[@naomixx177]

@@shirley7089Yh the bible is the perfect historical source *sigh*

[@imacmill]

How can someone's home be taken away from them, while simultaneously being told how to live in that home? Contradicting claims.

[@ishmailUK]

@@shirley7089ask a Palestinian where his 7th grandfather is buried, he will show you somewhere in Palestine. Ask a Zionist settler Israeli, he will tell you in Hungary or Russia or Germany or Poland. Keep trying to bullshit everyone even after the video clearly explains that it is settler colonialism. The only connection you claim to that land is a book of fables, the bible.

[@remind1393]

The early Jews also bought the land from arab "landlords"

[@djzeederbyshire2932]

Fascinating video buddy. I learnt a few things watching this. Thankyou so much, Subbed.

[@domdominique2603]

Excellent work, Lewis. Thank you.

[@ryantennyson7562]

Thank you. This historical perspective has been an education.

[@chaueter1041]

Another very good, nuanced video essay

[@r.w.bottorff7735]

This is a compelling and somber piece. Thank you for an illuminating video.

[@colemarsh13]

Excellent coverage

[@MiraSthira]

Thank you for this incredibly well researched video that touches on the complexities and injustices that have happened to both groups of people.

[@terjeoseberg990]

It’s not complicated. Gaza launched an attack into Israel, and Israel is responding. Had there been no attack, there would no response and Gaza would still be a free country like it was. Now it won’t be ever again.

[@terjeoseberg990]

This happened every time Gaza has attacked Israel during the past 17 years that Gaza has been free. The Gazans appear to be incapable of learning. This is the result. They could have had peace if they wanted. They obviously didn’t want peace.

[@deenil]

​@@terjeoseberg990I too call being in prison being free.

[@leftlanereiko6063]

​@@terjeoseberg990they want them to leave their land...they are from Europe...I don't understand why they want to live in someone else's country...it's just sick thinking about it... disgusting actually... same thing they did to native Americans actually... and then had the nerve to call them savages...🤢🤢🤢

[@terjeoseberg990]

@@leftlanereiko6063, Well, they’re at the Egyptian border right now trying to leave. Egypt won’t let them. Why?

[@thoughtraindrops]

Churchill classically separate from humanity.

[@Bd569h]

This is a well made and thorough explanation on why we are where we are today. Share this one widely, folks.

[@totonow6955]

Thank you. You are a wonderful commentator.

[@Rosiewithfootprints]

Might be the best video on the conflict I’ve seen. Something that really struck a chord with me is the way Palestine was spoken of as if it was “empty” land. It really illustrates both how incredibly dehumanizing that perspective is, but also how Israeli propaganda has deliberately made it almost impossible for its people to acknowledge the legitimacy of the Palestinian claim of the land since before the country even existed

[@shainazion4073]

There was less than 350,000 people in the land beforehand 1860, today there are 15 million people. The population as stated in the 1695 census stated that Jerusalem had 5,000 people, today there are almost 1 million. There are various quotes of travelers from the 1700s, 1800s, 1900s of the land being empty.

[@RobPires]

@@shainazion4073So after that mental gymnastics of yours, the land was still not empty.

[@shainazion4073]

@@RobPires Yes, most of the land was empty!! There are various quotes from the 1700s, 1800s, and 1900s about how empty travelers found the land. Mark Twain described the land in 1867; *_"....[a] desolate country whose soil is rich enough, but is given over wholly to weeds- a silent mournful expanse... A desolation is here that not even imagination can grace with the pomp of life and action...We never saw a human being on the whole route... There was hardly a tree or a shrub anywhere. Even the olive tree and the cactus, those fast friends of the worthless soil, had almost deserted the country."_* In 1875, the Earl of Shaftesbury said of Palestine; *_"We have there a land teeming with fertility and rich in history, but without an inhabitant - a country without a people, and look! scattered over the world, a people without a country"_* The Report of the Palestine Royal Commission quotes on an account of the Maritime Plain in 1913; *_"The road leading to Gaza to the north was only a summer track suitable for transport by camels and carts....no orange groves, orchards or vineyards were to be seen until one reached [the Jewish village of] Yabna [Yavne]... Houses were all of mud. No windows were anywhere to be seen... The ploughs used were of wood.... The yields were very poor.....The sanitary conditions in the village were horrible. Schools did not exist...The western part, towards the sea, was almost a desert.... The villages in this area were few and thinly populated. Many ruins of villages were scattered over the area, as owing to the prevalence of malaria, many villages were deserted by their inhabitants."_*

[@RobPires]

@@shainazion4073 Spare us from your mental gymnastics. There are stats prepared by Israeli demographers proving Palestine was never empty for thousands of years. Even Israeli heavyweight historians would never say it was empty. In 1917, the population was almost half a million, it was so not empty that Balfour promising this land to Europeans who live thousands of miles away was a clear injustice. Saying it was empty is the usual hasbara that doesn't work anymore.

[@shainazion4073]

@@RobPires Again there was 350,000 people TOTAL in the Entire land for hundreds of years prior to 1860. The census of 1695 showed 5,000 people Total in Jerusalem, all Jews and Christians. The land was EMPTY. There was a few villages scattered throughout, but they were not highly populated. Prove the land was highly populated before the 1900s... I'll wait..........

[@Vienna3080]

That Churchill quote filled we visceral rage

[@jeffharper407]

Thank you for your courage. You handled a fragile topic well ❤

[@giovannisoda3472]

The quality of this channel in both video and arguments is astonishing, someone may not agree with everything but it’s impossible to not recognise the great effort and passion behind

[@banuyam3097]

Finally, someone honest who calls it how it is and not a Zionist propagandist ... much respect bro 👊

[@adamkiraly7866]

Thank you for covering such a complex topic. You are one of the few creators I trust, but I really appreciate the sources you provided

[@totonow6955]

Deeply helpful. Thank you

[@josedelapinio]

Thank you for the video and the book reccomendations

[@mediocreape]

this is such a well made video! subbed.

[@distinctlackofpants]

Thank you for a thoroughly researched, even-handed video. It's very much appreciated in the current climate of "discourse". Small thing I noticed that you might want to correct: you use Shimon Peres' photo while referencing Yitzhak Rabin at 27:53.

[@illintentpersonified1912]

this is a fantastic video. i just havent been able to wrap my head around any of these horrors that are happening, but after seeing this it seems much more understandable. i dont know what else to say, but i hope more people can think of this with a broader worldview, and i hope, more than anything, that this pain and suffering can come to an end as soon as possible🍉

[@molesengmokgosi986]

This was a really good video.

[@waynez3885]

Very nicely compiled and educational. Thanks very much

[@rirkkadunz9453]

Hi Then & Now, a note on your subtitles: it's great that you're doing the extra work to put timestamped subtitles in rather than relying solely on youtube's auto subtitles, but i think these subtitles would be worth an extra layer of double checking - i have seen a number of errors between the spoken word and the written text (e.g. subtitles saying 1970 when you say 1917, among a few others). I am guessing from the content of the subtitles that you have copied the contents of youtube's auto subtitles into your own submitted subtitles. I think this is fine as a first step (because it removes a lot of the time-wasting work from subtitling), but if possible, it would be really special and appreciated if you were able to do a second pass over the subtitles you submit just to eliminate obvious errors in the algorithm's mishearing. I know this is another layer of labour on top of the already labour intensive endevour of creating a video with the level of rigour which i have come to appreciate from your work, but it really does pay dividends for those who are watching without sound as well as those of us who like to watch using youtube's auto-translate feature (i personally like to watch and download the auto-translated subtitles for the languages that i'm learning so that i can get engaging content in my target languages that i can have some sort of faith in, though i know the auto-translate is fraught - it is at least a good starting point if i trust the english subtitles).

[@MH_Raees]

Excellent video, bro❤

[@IStillHaveDialUp]

Excellent video!

[@mollyjones4165]

So if the US would have moved in on Britain when Churchill was around and took it over, Churchill would have praised them as being the stronger race and not in the least bit disappointed or annoyed 🤣. Don't you just love it when people make clowns out of themselves? It is from a superior place he made those statements. He did not mean Britain, of course! 🤣 Just everywhere else 🙄.

[@naomixx177]

Apparently it made a lot of sense to many people then and it still does today 😂

[@mollyjones4165]

@@naomixx177 yeah as long as it's not you. Suddenly it is the worst affront ever if it happens to your home. Everyone feels the same about their own home. That's the point!

[@hajimenyo]

00:02 Introduction to the complexity of the Israel-Palestine conflict 15:25 British response to the unrest in 1937 and the recommendation for two states 16:30 Impact of the Holocaust on European Jews and changes in British policy 17:31 Various plans proposed, including the UN plan in 1947 and the reactions of Arab states 19:34 Preparations for the 1948 war, Plan D, and the involvement of Irgun 21:11 Establishment of the State of Israel, Arab invasion, and consequences for Palestinians (Nakba) 22:11 Various factors contributing to the Nakba, including power differentials and foreign influence 23:29 Threats and actions against Jews in Arab countries post-1948 25:19 Reflection on corruption during the war and moral implications 27:12 Debate on the master plan of expulsion and the atmosphere of fear 28:35 The ongoing battle of narratives in Israel regarding the events of 1948

[@hogannull7022]

Good work

[@irishwarrior]

Thank you for a well researched and enlightening piece.

[@mingyuhuang8944]

Basically, empires took advantage of new nationalist movements, made a mess of the situation and then just left 😢😂

[@aealaeddin]

Thank you for doing this

[@twhite8308]

Thank you for this report. I learned much.

[@cknetc]

Cheers, Lewis. Some of your best work yet.

[@chromitem1319]

The conflict is simple, the solution is complex.

[@abeerabdelghany1284]

The diffrence between the two "so called narratives" could't be more clear from the titles of the two books "A history of settler colonialism and resistence" a familiar story we heard so many times in not far history. "My promised land" i never heard any people got promised land before

[@gillty]

Thank you.

[@dramese]

Thank you 🙏🏽

[@lingkayone.jiviol8160]

Thank you for this unbiased view of this history, helped me see clear with new perspective👍

[@patrick247two]

Nation states are a system where ownership is enshrined in laws put in place by colonial powers. The idea of land ownership for the British was/is very different to the concept held by Māori, for example.

[@anthonymorris5084]

These laws are made by elected officials in a democratic process which has created the most successful societies on Earth.

[@rolandscales9380]

Does that remark about laws and colonial powers apply to Denmark, Poland or Switzerland?

[@ryanharrington5066]

You omitted some details but you gave and you took. Pretty good video!

[@wizzyno1566]

It's a half hour video covering decades. Of course he missed some details...

[@ryanharrington5066]

@@wizzyno1566 Important details being glossed over for time is not a valid excuse.

[@edmcboy7308]

Amazing as usual

[@craven5328]

I'm glad to see you talk about the McMahon(Britain)-Hussein(Sharif of Mecca) communication / agreement about an independent Arab state, and the conflicting Sykes-Picot agreement between Britain and France. I didn't learn about this till earlier in the month, but it feels so critical to mention when talking about this piece of history, and rarely is.

[@naomixx177]

They saw an empty land that would benefit from Israeli presence. That in a nutshell is why many people call it a colonial, imperial state.

[@bullrun2772]

Huh bruh nowhere is that definition of colonialism unless you give a site that’s good that says that I’m going say your wrong

[@ishmailUK]

It was certainly full of people but of course the European colonialist will tell you it was empty, they were an inferior Palestinian people in thier eyes. Sigh

[@bullrun2772]

@@ishmailUK you’re joking, right your entire statement has fallen apart

[@ishmailUK]

@@bullrun2772which part has fallen apart? Colonilisation requires some form of dehumanisation to justify it and churchill really summed it up well, you know ‘the dog in the manger has no right’ essentially. It’s your comment that’s fallen apart

[@bullrun2772]

@@ishmailUK huh you didn’t even get do you wow that’s actually kinda if pathetic I was saying that your logical is falling apart because you said colonialism

[@EmHotep4520]

I appreciate this, especially the book sources.

[@mischahardy7161]

Thank you for this video...

[@ralphbernhard1757]

"Most of the great problems we face are caused by politicians creating solutions to problems they created in the first place. If we're ignorant, we won't even know when government infringes on our liberties." -- Walter E. Williams

[@IgN5P]

Churchill was just as bad internally as many of his opponents in his days.

[@EnemyOfEldar]

Dude thank you, you're amazing.

[@geertdecoster5301]

Splendid work. Always better to do good work at recounting what really happened than bad history by people with a real mission, bad faith and evil intent

[@lashachakhunashvili1399]

- What will become of the prisoners detained in the mosque? - We shall do to the prisoners what you would do had you imprisoned us. - No, no, please don't do that.

[@In-Heaven-Now]

Well done.

[@hismajesty9951]

A thing to add, in all 2-state solutions, from the earliest, the Israeli state was always bequeathed with the majority of the best coastal farmlands.

[@closetglobe.IRGUN.NW0]

But in the end it didn't matter because no plan was implemented and the brits left the jews and arabs to kill each other and the zionists succeeded in forming their separatist state

[@raz5802]

Wrong. This land was all swamps. Hence it was empty, hence Jews good move in. The "best land" is in the hills of the Galilee, Judea and Samaria (west bank) where the majority of the Muslim Aran population lived and continues to live.

[@TorranceHodgson]

You keep emphasising the complexity of the issue, but I think it has clear historical parallels that help see it with clarity: as an instance of settler colonialism. Your quote from Churchill in comparing the situation of the Palestinians to the Australian Aboriginal people or the American Indians makes it clear that even he saw those parallels.

[@xp8969]

Backwards, Israelites are the native aboriginal inhabitants of Israel, the Arabs who lived there before Israel gained it's freedom are colonizers

[@shalevshimoni5008]

Are you serious??? The Jewish people/nation has been present in Israel and its surrounding area for over 3000 years. There is no such as Arab palestine. The fact that an Egyptian intrrnational terrorist Yasser Arafat decided to hijact that name for his made-up paeople from it's historical context doesn't change the fact that there is no such thing. Until 1948 the name 'Palestine' referred to the Jews living there and the name of the area. The Arabs refused to use that name and and called themselfs Syrians or simply Arabs. That area has been called 'Palestine' several times in history, the first in 135 CE when the Romans took over and named the region Syria-Palaestina to punish the natives - the Jews, who revolted against them in the Bar Kokhba revolt. (The area had previously been called "Judea.")

[@rayeya3138]

Incorrect, genetic testing has always shown that Palestinians are descended of native people of their land. @@xp8969

[@maclinkastex3059]

Calling Israel "settler colonialism" is like calling Liberia "settler colonialism".

[@ibraheemsaleem2161]

​@@maclinkastex3059 liberia was always a colonial project

[@gusgus1816]

Awesome man! Im not happy about the violence happening, but am very optimistic and even excited that this conflict is leading to some actual DEEP STUDYing about this conflict. The dirty deeds of a lot of those in power today are fiiiinally starting to leak out of the long held secret vaults. Good job

[@danilthorstensson8902]

Unfortunately, most of the good scholarship has already been done after the Israeli declassification 40 years ago. Now that records are being systematically purged by the Israeli government, it will be much harder to get a clearer picture from now on. The work done in the 1980s and 1990s is the best and most comprehensive there is.

[@gusgus1816]

@@danilthorstensson8902 i love reports and documentaries from then, they were waay less censored and edited for "pc" bullshit. But i disagree that its harder to find truth now, about anything. Its just a matter of - how hard can u dig for it? They only put on the image of clamping down on access to info, in reality the flood gates of info are opening more & more and "they" are scrambling to distract and divide people bcuz thats one of their only moves left. All just my opinion

[@barryeldar687]

One people, one struggle. ✊️🇵🇸🇨🇩🇸🇩🕊

[@kofidebrah7594]

thank you for this

[@Alexander-Abood12]

But the real question is: from where Hamas gets rockets and weapons? That video is not a proof for the present day conflict. Many inaccuracies around KZbin about this 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@ThePandafriend]

Mostly Iran. Some small arms probably from Russia.

[@MrJoelyms]

Thanks for a reasoned and thorough introduction to this difficult part of history.

[@toqeerahmed8843]

Thank you

[@kuyanoy9968]

I have a questions... Who discovered Palestine? Who was the first king of Palestine? When was Palestine established?

[@ThePandafriend]

Palestine was never a country. The Romans expelled the Jews and called it Palestine to mock them. Before that it was Judaea. Afterwards it was controlled by different empires. There is also no "Palestinian" culture. Palestinians are Arabs.

[@TheGeosto]

@@ThePandafriend Didn’t the Jews similarly murder a few tribes back in the day to establish said Judea in the first place? I get your logic- it’s all about planting a flag of some kind. That’s why the Spanish got to claim the New World from the indigenous!

[@JhoneSigma]

​@@ThePandafriendyour dad is not your real dad ,he was someone else .

[@ibraheemhazem6872]

​@@ThePandafriend It was theirs actually. And it was under the rule of the ottoman empire

[@Lucy-iy9ni]

​@@ibraheemhazem6872 that region was under the rule of many civilizations, like he said it was never a country with a defined identity.

[@859902]

Most westerners crying for Palestine have not even heard of the Ottoman empire unless they happened to see Lawrence of Arabia 😂

[@esbenm6544]

🤡

[@dlw07052]

Intellectual humility on this subject is so refreshing!

[@ssr2201]

This is the most unbiased recollection of events I've come across thus far.

[@hospod163]

Thank god I can finally have an opinion on this topic !!!

[@ralphbernhard1757]

If it takes more than a minute to explain something simple, it's most likely wrong.... Here is what happened: _During WW1, the British Empire faciltated mass-immigration into the Levant, against the wishes of most people who already lived there (around 650,000 of mixed cultural/ethnic origin)._

[@danielaffinity8432]

There's a reference to Yitzhak Rabin at the end, showing a picture of Shimon Peres instead.

[@amralawdi483]

You are a good researcher

[@xaviercrain7336]

Let us not forget that the British empire was also part of this not just the ottoman one

[@YourIdeologyIsDelusional]

General rule of thumb: Any time you find that a territory has been divided up badly, expect that the British were involved.

[@JasonBrown-dd7dj]

You are right in British my kids have a demarcation line down middle of their bedroom their twins.