The Oscars' voting process awards safe movies

[@TheSaucyBoi5683]

Well, now this video is just awkward.

[@leannebrown02]

There's been a mistake!

[@goldwyn19]

Hunter Brown Someone got fired that night

[@mrflipperinvader7922]

Huh

[@RSG_TheMonster]

@@leannebrown02 Moonlight you’ve won best picture

[@xavierjamito4212]

Still can't get over The King's Speech winning over The Social Network.

[@trentbosnic]

And Inception..

[@iank8821]

And toy story

[@CheckersAndRecords]

Same, the Social Network is one of my favorite films

[@xXFoxyGrandmaXx]

xavier jamito have you seen The Kings Speech? it was incredible

[@JimCullen]

I didn't think The Social Network was a very good film at all. Perhaps I went in with the wrong expectations (I was expecting something similar to Pirates of Silicon Valley, which was an *amazing* film from 1999 about Apple and Microsoft's early days), but The Social Network just left basically no imprint on me. The King's Speech, on the other hand, was an incredibly memorable, emotional film that _absolutely_ deserved the win.

[@MinaF99]

So crash is your example of a good best picture win? The universally agreed most undeserved Oscar win? The movie that made brokeback mountain into the biggest snub in Oscar history?

[@kendon0923]

No Crash just engendered the most feeling that year. In the old system, the film, let's say out of 5, that got around 22-26% would win. Despite only marginally beating second and third a percentage or two behind. In the new system, if second or third managed to be more widely moderately liked than number 1 they would win the Oscar.

[@MrOneNye]

Donald Samuels why did you just explain to her what she just watched sometimes is best to just sit back and SMH a stupid comment. along with her " likes" brethren.

[@nnmartin94]

you're proving their point of rather having extreme reactions to a win than a meh

[@crispybacon4240]

+MrOneNye I'm not entirely sure what point you were trying to make with your incoherent mess of a comment.

[@MrOneNye]

google smh. and brethren. put it together and what do you get? a ding-dong. If you cant understand or even put together what I wrote I hazard you might have to restrict your bacon intake since the fats are going straight to your brain obstructing blood flow. Answer me this, Do you suddenly smell burnt toast?.... Oh yea you're a 12 year old. Google smelling burnt toast as well....seriously......

[@donmcquillen4434]

lowkey this video is about the oscars being racist

[@_Mellow_]

Is not about being racist, is about the voters being too similar.

[@kendon0923]

That's stupid because La La Land is not the only mostly white cast in the running. It is accusing the process of being low key industry-ist though. Any movie about the industry or even just adjacent to the industry will, not necessarily rank at the top, but near the top. In this run-off process the movie that brings out the most feeling in the most people is usually side-lined for the movie that managed to moderately please the most people. Movies that link to the industry tend to be liked by people in the industry.

[@mancfam]

Everything is racist ,sexist and homophobic when are you lily white patriarchal shitlords going to learn this ?

[@aninditafarzana2773]

nope

[@aninditafarzana2773]

it's that boring films get rewarded

[@maffgh2465]

somebody call CPG grey

[@finewinedaily4997]

For politicians, I think you want someone who has broad appeal, not someone who alienates a majority of the electorate. For art that's more debatable. Many genius, revolutionary films are polarizing. I might prefer some of those films win over a safer, more broadly appealing film. But if you do that with a political system, you risk getting radicals, fascists, etc winning an election. Also, this voting method is designed to help eliminate the two party systems that always arise as a result of first past the post voting. That's not really a concern for an awards show.

[@jimishpatel4726]

Maff Gh yes someone call off-brand grey

[@BigYellowJoint1]

fast, write Brady an Email

[@FidaAifiya]

Maff Gh you meant CGP Grey

[@MikkoHaavisto1]

Which tastes better - a tomato or a cucumber? It's impossible to answer objectively, but preferential voting comes much closer to answering it than first past the post.

[@dariusemmanueltherumblegro7240]

The Grammys voting process picks out safe mediocre music too

[@Octavio12341000]

THE LESBIANEST NO LEGGED SOCCER MOM IN THE EAST Yeah, it's even worse than the Oscars

[@oldkinglog8209]

THE LESBIANEST NO LEGGED SOCCER MOM IN THE EAST Yeah, but that's cool though because black people win those constantly. Although there were still some grumblings about "racism" when Adele won instead of Beyonce. It's only wrong if white people win.

[@BigYellowJoint1]

THE LESBIANEST NO LEGGED SOCCER MOM IN THE EAST yea, for example It os safe to say that 1989 is better that tpab

[@_kakfa]

"black people win those constantly" ? what? where's the sourcing for this? it's not the case for best album, arguably the most prestigious and the most coveted grammy, that's for sure -- and it's definitely not a thing for black artists only. the grammy's reward safe picks that have a broad appeal too and that can mean a lot of things: david bowie, maybe, because he bent traditional ideas about sexuality (and he was rewarded with 4 grammys _posthumously_) -- or maybe someone who isn't white, who doesn't make pop music, who isn't straight, etc. ultimately it depends on what your perspective of _what should these awards reward_ is, like the video says. should it be about films/music that are accepted universally? about films/music that make the most commercial success? should it be about films/music that push boundaries (and what should those "boundaries" be)? in retrospect, the oscars and the grammys rewarding things like la la land over moonlight or taylor swift over kendrick lamar look like the opposite of what those time magazine covers do; last year they picked donald trump as person of the year, and they recognized what a complete gamechanger he was to the political spectrum, pointed out all the things he's done to shake things up. it's made us think, at the very least, of what's happening to our politics, and i regard that as a very good thing. some articles i found interesting about the grammys, whether you'll agree with them or not isn't up to me, but they're from two very good news sources (one of them links to an hour long podcast talk sorry): wapo.st/2lIfRnd and nyti.ms/2mybKJA

[@alexander-gp9jc]

Am I the only one who was insanely bored by La La Land? Also did anyone else hear the "yeah boi" in the music at 2:25.

[@alex85193]

Yep me too, just wasn't much to it

[@CarnageExecutioner]

No

[@SaltySparrow]

I bet you love Marvel movies.

[@37047403]

That's what I was going to say.

[@robertg8442]

nah, i usually hate musicals, but i thought this one was really well executed and realistic

[@matthewhall8220]

An original musical with a bittersweet ending is not "safe" or mediocre

[@slightexag]

This comment makes it sound both safe and mediocre. Also, you just described Into the Woods

[@clara-nt9rx]

Matthew Hall thats the ony thing that moved it from a pretty musical that was boring and longwinded and had too many songs at some parts from safe to slight edge. bittersweet ending. also emma stone in that audition scene was great. i mean its definietly a goid movie but there are not that many great things about it.

[@chekmaytful]

but its also (objectively) not as good as arrival, fences, hacksaw, hell or high water, moonlight or hidden figures. people just love lalaland because its the first musical in a decade that is actually good.

[@trickyricky98]

chekmaytful what do you mean it isn't as objectively good. If you're talking about cinematography and editing then I'd say it beats the others. But I'm not sure what you mean by that.

[@auesr]

Matthew Hall also it's not that vox thinks it's mediocre, it's that most film professionals do, because if it weren't, the system would most likely not have produced it as number one. you see?

[@Olodus]

This kind of system is what you might want in a political voting system (first past the post mathematically collapses down to two party systems over time) but not in a voting on art.

[@nedisahonkey]

Olodus Haha this comment is actually better than the video. Vox just delete the video and replace it with a 10 second video reading this comment.

[@meermeeronthewall]

+Olodus Absolutely. Broad appeal might be preferred in a politician, but great art SHOULD induce strong reactions and be polarizing.

[@spaceunicorn]

Strong reactions can still be used in runoff voting to determine a winner though. What if there were 3 films that were polarizing in a year? I'm guessing the same voters who are attracted to all three films would appreciate preferential voting as it gives those outsider films a chance when the tastes are grouped together

[@MildMisanthropeMaybeMassive]

I agree with this statement.

[@betotrono]

hah yeah if we had runoffelections like this In the USA we'd be talking about president Evan McMullin

[@qtarokujo3694]

well, guess what.... La La Land didn't win.... . . . *Moonlight won Best Picture*

[@darynjackson5732]

Seedge Mercado i think that whole thing was a middle finger to the "Oscars so white" movement...nothing like that has happened since it happened to sammy davis jr...looks fishy, but i could be wrong...plus in this media flooded age, this vid could have affected what happened, or for example" oscars so white" could have caused the film to be higher than such a film normally is...hence proving the vids point

[@brentgeertsema596]

So the movies that more critics loved shouldn't be voted best? got it, thanks vox

[@plisskenarmitage2075]

Right over your head, eh?

[@xgullafter9590]

+Plissken Armitage like with most people.

[@n__m]

critics already have their own awards, and they aren't the Oscars. The Oscars are voted on by the film Academy which is made up of filmmakers, so it stands to reason that universally critically lauded films might not win.

[@TheJensPeeters]

Brent Geertsema 3 things: first its not particular about this year (king's speech wasn't universally loved for example). second you mix up academy and critics (definitely not the same).third it's about broad support now, not most loved.

[@Advent3546]

So it's a bad thing that so many people love La La Land?

[@abstractfacts]

no its a bad thing that only a few people love La La Land but MANY people just sort've like it.

[@keyblader6]

abstractfacts which is substantiated how? That video just assumes that to be fact

[@Advent3546]

Sword of the Morning I should have rephrased the question. Why does La La Land being "safe" make it not of good quality to win a best picture? I agree with a lot of what the video says but the title suggest that La La Land will only win best picture because it is solely an easy pick and not as daring as something as Moonlight. Regrettably I have not seen Moonlight so I can't make up my own judgement on its quality but La La Land is my favorite film of the 9 nominees and I want to defend its merits.

[@abstractfacts]

@James Bond yes it is better. that was the point of the video @2:55 we shouldn't settle for mediocrity.

[@thefrenchbastard1646]

it's not about whatever it's a good movie or not it's that among the voters very few tougth it was good enouf to be called the best in the categorie personnely i think these awards are pointless regardless of the voting proces because to me it's like comparing apples and oranges even if you have two movies with the same thème and story there are hundreds of different ways to aproch the subject

[@joakimrnnestadsyrstad5158]

La La Land would be a worthy Best Picture

[@MDhaliwal27]

Joakim Rønnestad Syrstad ehh not really. It seems like another movie about Hollywood patting itself on the back.

[@joakimrnnestadsyrstad5158]

Well it´s actually quite melancholy in the way it handles the subject of dreams and ambitions and their affects on relationships. It´s more like a modern drama wrapped in a classic Hollywood musical. Surprisingly real beneath the surface. But hey, everyone´s entitled to their own opinions.

[@kevindkx]

Actually the plot of lala land has very little to do with hollywood.

[@ImperialGoldfish]

Kevindkx, what you just said makes absolutely no sense. La La Land may not be explicitly about the conception, shooting and editing of an actual movie, and the central theme may be more about the cost and the value of pursuing your dreams, and how the people you meet can shape your life, than it is specifically about the importance of performance, but both of our dream-chasing protagonists are obsessed show business, the backdrop is literally a movie studio, and the entire film is a love-letter to classic Hollywood charm and romance. Please, I invite you to respond and develop your argument.

[@indeans48]

But then it takes the whole nod to Classic Hollywood and shoves away from it towards the end. It starts off bright and flashly like an old-school technicolor musical but turns to a serious drama by 2/3 in. All the wonder and excitement of being an LA hopeful is stripped away, the frequency of musical sequences is cut down immensly, and the scenes switch to darker lighting/tone as Mia and Sebastian realize the compromises needed to achieve their dreams. It refits/twists those retro ideas to tell a distinctly millennial story: "They worship everything and value nothing"...

[@noelleay]

if la la land is what's considered mediocre these days.... i'll be praying for future filmmakers yikes

[@meermeeronthewall]

It's not mediocre, it's a good film that everybody liked. That's the point of the video. But great art evokes visceral, strong emotions and may often be polarizing. A nice movie with broad appeal isn't necessarily great art.

[@Carols989]

@Ayannah Noelle i'll be praying for future filmmakers that think la la land is anything but a very sorry excuse for a musical at worst and meh at best

[@LtZeen]

Ayannah Noelle if la la land is considered mediocre imagine what cuter movies will be like

[@Mayfinder]

La La land just looks good. That's it. There is so much more to movies than it looking good.

[@arhvn]

La La Land is pretty good but LOOKS wise, it's not as good as moonlight

[@drama_rama_]

guys i just don't understand this hate for la la land..... was i the only one who really really enjoyed this film, and thought it was so monumental it DESERVED all those awards?! i had a smile on my face the entire time i was in the movie theatre - not because the plot was happy but because i was LOVING this film so much! at the end i cried - for me it wasnt just 'mediocre' like you put it so simply

[@GoTFCanada1230]

You're not the only one. I loved La La Land. Given, I don't think it's a full blown out musical, but it certainly deserved its nominations and deserves a few wins.

[@dom1310df]

christaktak the people who shout loudest get heard. In this case, that's the "didn't like it" crowd

[@sergior8992]

christaktak YOU enjoyed it but there's also viewers who didn't like it so much, case in point your comment has no value aside from giving your opinion. You state the obvious and nothing more.

[@stopstalkingmegoogl]

christaktak yeah you were the Only one who enjoyed a critically acclaimed Oscar nominated movie. hot take there.

[@maxmander]

Great film and very entertaining and the sequences towards the end were masterpieces, instant classic. Still I would like to see Moonlight or Manchester By The Sea win because they are important movies that A) have not been seen as much, B) shine a light on aspects of society that most people do not recognise, experience or think about much. They tell a story uniquely, are also shot amazingly well and are extraordinary rather than just another drama-related love-story film. La La Land is great but for me not extraordinary. No hate, just an opinion :)

[@CodaRed]

I've seen all of the movies nominated for best picture for this years Oscars and the most deserving for best picture is La La Land. The film truly revitalized a dying genre (musicals) by showing depth with the plot as well the details and done so in such a seamless way. None of the other movies this year have done this to such detail as La La Land and this is coming from someone who does not like musicals. I do agree with Vox that the voting system used currently is subjective to preferences. However, the awards should be given to the best movie based on the category it is nominated in, not which is the most political or appealing to personal taste.

[@willherondale6367]

Steven Bric Nada on that front- arrival is simply a better piece of cinema

[@carlosletona18]

.............................you mean Disney films....Disney films aren't dying.

[@HiAndHello-w9l]

I agree, I like musicals, but as a musical La La land had a lot of weaknesses, manly being that the actors didn't have voices well suited for it. While sweet, I found the singing lacking in most of the lyrical numbers as the voices where too quiet, or just not as full as you would expect from a musical. I really enjoyed it and the dancing and accompaniment was great bur, the musical themes where noticeably repetitive, and the singing was just alright? I'm normally not that picky about the singing, heck I even enjoyed Les Mis, but the singing was... just lacking, not bad, but not Oscar worthy. Just to be clear, I really liked the movie! But I can't help but feel the singing is off, and unlike my favorite musicals, there was not particulate number that I just wanted to listen to again on repeat and sing along with. For a musical, the music was odd. ... GAAAA! I just don't know how to describe it, does anyone else get me?

[@xAlphaDogx2000]

you guys are also forgetting whiplash from 2014, fantastic movie

[@motherrussia73]

While I agree that La La Land is an endearing movie from its aesthetic perspective, I wouldn't really term it as a musical. Not only were Emma Stone and Ryan Gosling just okay at singing, the actual music in the movie did little to advance the plot, other than "City of Stars" and "The Audition", which were kind of in the middle parts of the movie. La La Land depicted the struggle to become renowned in Hollywood, which is much easier compared to being successful in theater. Emma Stone's character become world-famous after one hit movie, most Broadway performers have to work years in multiple lead roles in order to achieve notoriety, and their place in the spotlight is not set in stone. Hollywood loves movies about itself because it loves to hear about an extremely overplayed artistic struggle that many of them had to experience very briefly or not at all, depending on existing connections. The plot itself isn't very original, and while the onscreen chemistry was there, it's not new either. You have extremely powerful movies like Moonlight, or movies that showcase representation and struggle extremely well like Hidden Figures, but ultimately they won't be given a chance because of the bias for picking the same kinds of movies every year. Vox is entirely right in saying Hollywood doesn't like movies that take risks, and they only occasionally change that pattern when people get angry about the lack of diversity- and at that point they'll usually settle for the first movie with people of color in it, whether it's actually the best movie or not.

[@perpetualpolymath5961]

I think Donald Trump should win an oscar. He has turned the US into the best film ever.

[@davidbrick1260]

A mixture of Comedy/Drama/Horror.

[@Marylandbrony]

David Brick And soon Sword and Sandal as things are going to get Bloody/Tragic.

[@TheEDMification]

David Brick You forgot to mention 'Fiction'

[@MLF4468]

it is definetly turning into the most entertaining shitshow I have watched for ages

[@mobsta163]

Victor Dalloz SAD!

[@user-dc5ti1is1s]

Or maybe its a better movie.

[@creamithmanning2632]

Space Buttefly There's no way to quantify BETTER in art.

[@megag52]

True, but we all know "The Godfather" is better than "Batman and Robin"

[@user-dc5ti1is1s]

Cmon man I loved that movie :(

[@megag52]

Space Buttefly yeah the bat nipples were awesome

[@Jenabebe]

opinions are subjective you idiot

[@mateosanfitz9625]

I will NOT tolerate any La La Land slander....

[@slightexag]

I will not tolerate you saying LLL should win until you see Moonlight.

[@BigYellowJoint1]

smithtable15 my friends describe it as gimmicky and nonsensical but I haven't seen it. La la land is a master piece so it will be hard to top it. I think moonlight will win it anyway as a response to last year's controversy and current political climate.

[@WisemanxSmash]

Finally someone has the guts to take on Oscar voting. (heavy sarcasm implied)

[@cloejarozenski3097]

2:24 "Mostly white" *Ugh...* Don't fall down that path, Vox. Please.

[@sTreek90]

is it wrong to be statistcally specific ? get over yourself.

[@sassa0406]

Cloe Jarozenski but its true sooooo

[@RodrigoSilvaRocha]

sassa0406 but it is not important to know that

[@deano1232011]

Cloe Jarozenski it's too late, they're been like this for a while now...

[@keyblader6]

Is it pertinent to the voting? Are all white people racist? The video seems to imply a connection between people likely not voting for Moonlight and being white. This whole video is presumptory

[@jrad410]

Really liked la la land

[@TheJensPeeters]

jrad410 besides the point. loved it too though

[@eleonoramustafaeva1303]

so what? irrelevant. (loved it too though!)

[@chasegeurin]

The people have an agenda. I honestly think if the only change they made to La La Land was that the main characters were not white, people like Vox would love it.

[@indeans48]

If Moonlight wins Best Picture it's because the Academy wants to make a political statement, not because it was the most well-rounded film. 'La La Land' was a technical masterpiece that used nearly every facet of the artform to tell it's story (hence the 13 other nominations). Chazelle layered this movie so cleverly/subtly that it goes beyond the convention of being just "that Musical about Hollywood" (and if it can only get 1 award all night it should easily be for his directing). Moonlight had a passionate narrative to convey, but outside of standout acting and a few unique staging choice on pivotal scenes, it looks and feels very much like every "important" Oscar-bait drama we've seen fill the nomination slots over the last decade. Not to say it's uninteresting or ingenuine, but it stands out more because of timely social/political tides and not innovation to the industry (and let's remember that the Oscar are an industry award show for technical/artistic merit).

[@Summer_Wonder]

Sally Vee because it's a story not about a straight white character. It's sad when simply telling a story about an atypical background is provocative 😑

[@indeans48]

I agree that it shouldn't be seen that way, and the main pitch should have been that it's centered around a personal journey into discovering one's self/coming of age tale, but the problem is that the once the urban poverty and homosexuality themes come into play there's a stigma attached that reduces it to another "social justice" film in many circles. It's a lot deeper than that, but if it wins I guarantee the Academy are not doing it with the same intention as something like 'La La Land' or 'Arrival'. I'm on your side in that it's a good film, but from a traditional perspective it's nowhere near as well composed as the "mediocre" white people musical.

[@idawg7332]

No if the academy wants to make a political statement then hidden figures will win just like at the sag awards. Moonlight would be a deserving winner along with la la land and arrival.

[@DeeDee-oq2kc]

I don't think Moonlight even had to be nominated, it's a great film that represents the art house/indie films that don't usually make it big. That being said, it'd be great if the film was awarded best picture, maybe after 2017's year of superheroes, sequels, and reboots... 2018 studios will be inspired to develop more challenging, thoughtful, original productions in the vein of Moonlight.

[@idawg7332]

Personally I think jake gyllenhaal should win for nocturnal animals but he wasn't even nominated. I would have nominated silence and nocturnal animals for best picture over every one of the actual nominees aside from maybe arrival and moonlight.

[@hamzahbhrchi]

This is utter bullshit. How many 'safe' films have won in the past 5 years please?

[@FromThe_6]

Hamzah Bharuchi umm all of them

[@MDhaliwal27]

Hamzah Bharuchi Artist, Argo, Spotlight

[@keyblader6]

Manpreet Dhaliwal yeah, a silent film is super safe in the modern day

[@MDhaliwal27]

dropthemoon yes it was actually. It was just a nostalgic trip back to the "good old days of Hollywood." Of course Old White Men would vote for it

[@keyblader6]

That's not safe, that's pandering, if anything. Financially, that movie is a huge risk. And the movie was good, so who cares about the primary demographic. Unless you're a bigot or a moron, you should be able to relate to experiences that are foreign to you and people who don't look like you.

[@brayraab3858]

moonlight is one of the best films I've ever seen

[@taurinserotonin9994]

You have not seen many films

[@infallibletram9999]

A taste in movies or anything for that matter is subjective. Don't be thick

[@thepedrorriva]

moonlight is amazing (just not better than La La Land)

[@meermeeronthewall]

I was sitting it in the theater sobbing through most of the film. It was wonderful

[@kaiofficial7168]

Bray Raab but not as good as la la land

[@gamerchico]

Art is subjective some think La La Land should win while others think moonlight should. Just because a movie is more "daring" doesn't mean it's better. A original musical being made in today's landscape where reboots and adaptions are getting green lit left and right. I would say making musicals are also very daring. Original musicals rarely get made nowadays. I wouldn't mind if either won but out of the two I think La La Land should win. It has more staying power and will be far more remembered down the line.

[@darynjackson5732]

Rey Leon no but the issue here is that nobody picks the winner...its just the safest least polarizing option

[@prabhjotsinghkainth2282]

" It has more staying power and will be far more remembered down the line." EXACTLY!!

[@BarbieAllNightDance]

Rey Leon thank you. I'm so tired of everyone saying just bc lala land is good makes you racist. It is original. So is moonlight. But moonlight is depressing af

[@poego6045]

A reason it will be remembered is because Hollywood adores it though more than anything, so they'll just keep it in the public's eye, even if the public doesn't care anymore. Plus, it's mostly just because the songs. Any musical with catchy songs will be remembered, regardless of how mediocre the actual film is (*cough Little Mermaid *cough)

[@giveemhelldel9999]

@@prabhjotsinghkainth2282 the video isn't saying La La Land was better or worse than Moonlight it was just using it as an example of how the Oscars favor comfortable films.

[@OfficialSpencer]

La La Land was amazing, it's hard to pull off an original musical, let alone a film...

[@OfficialSpencer]

Moonlight was average

[@martymartin9186]

Official Spencer Facts

[@catgotmytongue]

i know right! hate it when people underestimate it

[@451asians]

why was putting "mostly white" necessary?

[@Mrwaffleandmilk]

Because movies that star a cast mostly of color rarely ever win or get nominated.

[@BigYellowJoint1]

Mrwaffleandmilk they should make better movies

[@adamterrelonge]

I think Vox didn't open up an argument well enough. Aside from being "mostly white" they are all mostly OLD WHITE MEN. All three factors mean that their potentially outdated views probably couldn't actually dissect a film properly for all of its merits. When you watch a movie with people of different backgrounds and genders, a discussion is a lot more varied and exciting. Whereas if you watch it with people of your gender and background its a lot more rare to find a varied argument. Its not that these guys are inherently racist or that they don't like coloured films. Its that they wouldn't find merit and losses like other people would

[@adamterrelonge]

MANTLE it's this mentality that is skewed. I never said that there is an "us" and "them". All I said is that people have a different way of interpreting different things. I won't know how it feels to be a white old man. EVER. And a white old man could never be me (young black man). Our experiences are different. Your argument that we eat, sleep, etc. is good and bad. Different =/= Division. You were nurtured differently to me. I have a completely different outlook on things. It's not that we are divided; just that we are different. We should celebrate it. I don't know if you're white, black, Asian, Hispanic etc. But we are different. That's all. No race baiting ish

[@squadfam4807]

because that influences how movies are chosen, movies centered around minorities or women might lose out safe movies

[@larsklamer5113]

I totally agree with the statement that this type of voting favors mediocre films. But in the argument that more movies about show-biz win, three examples are given. Birdman, Argo and The Artist. Are you really saying Birdman and The Artist are mediocre, crowdpleasing, uninspiring and not daring?

[@miguelmourato2559]

2:29 You couldn't resist, Vox! Had to make it about race!

[@slightexag]

Their argument wasn't about race, though it is undoubtedly a factor in the voting process for the Oscars, which is why, I assume, they hinted at it.

[@pepps779]

Their argument did not mention race once, which makes the random label regarding the racial make up of the voters completely irrelevant. It also serves to confuse their audience by distracting from the point of their argument, which is that the voting system is the main cause of 'safe' films winning.

[@AnyOtherNamePlease]

Tyler It's completely relevant as it shows they view everything through the lense of race and any accomplishment by white people as an example of 'institutionalised racism'...

[@GarlicPudding]

Except they didn't. Guess what: saying something positive about a movie with a black cast DOESN'T "make it about race". Stop getting triggered.

[@AnyOtherNamePlease]

GarlicPudding I'll let you re-read your own comment to see where you went wrong. After all, Vox never ever makes race an issue...

[@azania1243]

If a musical wins Best Picture over a masterpiece like Moonlight then there truly is no hope for this world 😂

[@almoalgam]

if you don't understand how it's not just a musical, you should stop watching movies.

[@trentbosnic]

Great films aren't remembered for winning Oscars, they're remembered for being great. Oscars don't matter.

[@wendy3294]

almoalgam i don't understand, please explain it to me

[@01rai01]

its just an award, doesn't take anything away from the films

[@CorazonLaw1]

Viwe Mbava So a musical film can never be a masterpiece?

[@RunningRugby4]

can the academy and the us government just switch systems please?

[@kevinwhite8176]

I just love how it's blowing up in their face because the "mediocre" movie that was favoured is Moonlight 😂

[@darynjackson5732]

Kevin White well wouldnt the point of the vid be to stop this "safe bias"...plus "oscars so white happened " (which is proly a part of the reason this vid exists)

[@DarnellHendeason-dk3uw]

Kevin White : MOONLIGHT was chosen as a token replacement BIRTH OF A NATION.

[@ericvisser5253]

I necessarly say that that was medicorce in fact it was quite the opposite

[@cesarnavarrete248]

Ikr

[@preid122o]

I fully support the runoff voting system because by appealing to a broader base it is a better representation of true opinion.

[@patrickdonaghy3009]

I would disagree. As the title and purpose of the Award is to award the ‘best’ film, I think that best-liked (not necessarily by everyone) film should be prioritized over the most-likes film (where few or no people may actually regard the chosen film as being the 'best'.

[@TayLor-Aloe]

La La Land is a masterpiece of a musical film, a genre that has needed a fresh masterpiece for a while now.

[@winston.sullivan]

People weren't mad that Crash beat out "Good Night, and Good Luck," they were mad that it beat out Brokeback Mountain! And you ignored that fact that the old system awarded mediocrity also, like in 1997 (Titanic over "As Good As it Gets" and "Good Will Hunting").

[@joshynoshy]

Are you saying that a first past the post is better?

[@nedisahonkey]

Jay Nosh I think they just pointed out the shortcomings of a instant run off vote without highlighting its advantages or proposing a valid alternative. So in a round about way Yes.

[@Crutypus]

Politics and movie awards are very different things. First past the post is terrible for politics, for movie awards it's debatable.

[@gsvick]

Yeah, I think they are saying that first past the post is better *for Oscars*. It comes down to what kind of result do you want from voting. The video argues that for Oscars, polarizing film is better than mediocre film. I would argue that for elections, mediocre politician is better than polarizing politician, which is why first past the post is a bad choice there.

[@eyescreamcake]

I hope not, because FPTP is the worst thing imaginable. Score voting is the best.

[@marcella8576]

cgp grey would say otherwise

[@bolerie]

Isn't it a good thing that a movie with popular support instead of polarizing movies, exactly like Crash which most people agree now was a pretty bad movie?

[@sofiapicasso1915]

ZarZDodge I guess qhat they are trying to say is that it's better for more polarising films to.win because you have a bigger chance of them being amazing (or not very good) rather than just mediocre or forgettable

[@meermeeronthewall]

Great art isn't decided by popularity. Movies with the broadest appeal might be good movies, but they're also kinda bland.

[@rasimons1]

A movie doesn't have to be about minorities to be unique or inventive. Quite on the contrary, this is one of the first years of the Oscars that even has a lot of poc-driven movies nominated for best picture.

[@rasimons1]

"The world may never know." Actually, that's pretty easy to know. And the answer is that yes, yes they are good.

[@RebornLegacy]

Most people don't agree it was a pretty bad movie. Angry people by nature are just louder, which you choose to interpret as a consensus. I thought it was a great movie, but I don't go around proclaiming that all the time. Also, according to Metacritic and Rotten tomatoes, most people, including critics and audience members, thought it was a good movie.

[@JazzyNym]

Ok to everyone who loves La La Land so damn much, is it really worth best picture? I mean *really*? *REALLY*? I'm not saying it's a bad film, but *best picture*...I mean really

[@AlphaAxle]

JazzyNym Yeah, it totally deserves best picture. While I think the acting/screenplay was slightly better in Moonlight and Manchester. the technical genius of La La Land is what I think gives it the edge

[@JazzyNym]

***** I have seen it. Both me and the person I saw it with weren't impressed. Our biggest issue was the story and how it was executed... I dunno, it just felt like a lie. I'm not saying all movies have to be sunshine and rainbows, but this movie's third act felt too cheap for me. I'm not very good at explaining it (I did it better in another post, but it was also way longer and I'm lazy) but just know that not everyone agrees that this is the "best" movie. I'm not saying it's a bad movie at all, and there were sequences reminiscent of Singin' in the Rain that I loved, but the movie as a whole just didn't capture me.

[@Mrwaffleandmilk]

I hated it. It is a movie that says alot about nothing. Its a story told over and over agian.

[@grouchomarx4]

We're always telling the same story over and over again. Only the politics or techniques or fashions or languages change.

[@JazzyNym]

***** Look, I don't normally like calling people stupid, but Jesus did you even read my reply? I did see it. They don't get together in the end. Woopdido. I'm not complaining that they don't end up together, I'm complaining about how they executed that plot point. P.S. I never called the movie cheesy; get out of your own head. And to grouchomarx4 I agree; pretty much every story can be ground down to the same story or genre tropes. However, it's *how* you tell that story that sets each apart, and what I love about watching movies; I want to see how they approach telling the story. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes it works more for one person than for another, and that's great too. I believe everyone has a right to love or hate (or just be ok with) a movie for their own reasons. My problem is when people come along and try to invalidate other's opinions because how can you *not* like x movie!? It's a masterpiece! To each their own.

[@Kingfishbish]

La La Land was not a "safe" movie, it is a musical for crying out loud

[@Carols989]

even if the public may not enjoy musicals as much as they used to, the academia loves them. And if you consider most of the musicals ever done, La la land is not only barely a musical, its the safest, most boring one ever created

[@spearofconquest]

I don't know if anyone else noticed this or if anyone said this, but this movie is literally a jazz song. Remember the one scene where Seb is describing jazz to Mia and how even though it can be the same song it is never played the same way twice and at different times the drummer or sax player might go off and do their own thing and play the song their way. And throughout the movie there would be times when they would just focus on Mia or Seb and the decision they are making (see Seb playing piano in the restaurant or Mia's final audition). Then in the final scene at the club we see how their lives could have been different together if they made different decisions. But they always start at the restaurant and end at the club. So just like a jazz song can be played a little bit differently depending on the musicians decide to play it, it still is the same song that starts and ends the same way. Just like they meet at the restaurant and end at the club.

[@spearofconquest]

BTW, I'd say its safe to assume that most oscar movies are way too smart for most people.

[@Carols989]

you are completely right, the movie with 3 mediocre songs that tries to not be cliche ending with a cliche "we love each other but we can't be together i'll forever remember our flaming love" is indeed too smart for most people, which is why great majority of people love it

[@BigYellowJoint1]

B_Potassio and moonlight is Oscar bait riding on the moronic controversy of last year Oscars and the Hollywood hate for Donny Trump

[@VibeSensational]

I'm still confused.

[@brentgeertsema596]

vox doesn't like the voting system because movies that a majority of people enjoyed most are voted as best

[@VibeSensational]

Brent Geertsema thank you im still confused

[@ersiedakin37]

Actually, most categories can pick the movie that - when there were 5 nominees - 20% plus 1 voter. In IRV, you get movies that are generally acclaimed. So this year, let's say 3 Billboards and Shape of Water have a plurality of the vote. Still, a movie that mos people like (Dunkirk, Lady Bird) could win, because some people despise the front runners.

[@ebrahimjamshid8328]

😂 vox must be feeling pretty embarrassed right about now

[@vladimirlenin2714]

Why?

[@10ntertainment]

Scribbler Rising Because they said that la la land would win over moonlight, which didn't happen. Oscars this year didn't take the easy way out.

[@maxpayne6919]

this woman is a joke really..

[@Rav3r916]

I think people are missing the point here. This video is about the Oscar's voting process and how movies that placed in the top rankings, consistently across, have a higher chance of winning a category it's nominated in. They were just using La La Land and other movies from the past that had the same concept/environment (which are primarily movies about the industry itself), compared to other movies that were daring, bold, unique, and were critically acclaimed by many. They added an insert about a certain group of people and the comment section becomes fixated to only talk about that; shouldn't we be questioning/probing the entertainment industry instead and the validity of award given bodies? How does one determine "the best" in that category? What are the criteria used, if any?

[@daCanadianOFFICIAL]

Finally vox is making regular videos without isolating half of their viewership

[@ryantaylor9085]

Whats with "My longest yeah boy ever" popping up at 1:37?

[@yogitagomes7388]

Haha funny

[@guilhermebranco8572]

Y E A H B O I I I

[@joshooahh]

La la land was the best film of that year, it was a classic theatrical wet dream that is nostalgic to the older generation and different for the current

[@jonasdewind7950]

moon light better

[@MasterAppels]

La La Land is overrated. You'll see its ratings (IMDb, Rotten Tomatoes, etc.) come down in a few months' time when people are out of the bubble and watch it again. The same thing happened with Star Wars episode 7. I'm not saying LLL is as bad as Star Wars, just not as good as what most people are saying. And not good enough to win the Oscar (in my eyes).

[@bogdansimeonov4999]

"good" is subjective.And what you said is bullshit.

[@Dan1elAndrade]

Master Star wars 7 was good.

[@MasterAppels]

Bogdan Simeonov "Bullshit" is subjective.

[@Dan1elAndrade]

Yes. But most people liked Star Wars and probably will remember it as the movie that continued the franchise. While no one will remember La La Land because it's boring.

[@Dan1elAndrade]

Yes. But most people liked Star Wars and probably will remember it as the movie that continued the franchise. While no one will remember La La Land because it's boring.

[@JohnSmith-td7hd]

Why are there award shows for movies at all? Why do you need someone else's opinion to feel confident enough to watch and enjoy a movie?

[@919haroun]

ARE U KIDDING ME? We had 12 years of slave, Argo, Spotlight and now Moonlight. The Academy putting "bold" movies aside?? more like make decent/good controversial movies and then win Best Picture. It's really hard to call it as a "bold" move, when it is the main formula to winning best picture. Just cause they're much more important and bold does not make them a better PICTURE. They should only win best Original/Adapted Screenplay... La La Land as a whole is a better movie.

[@lyricnation1851]

Vox you're a very high quality channel and keep it up with the amazing editing!

[@Dzindzer]

The system might not be perfect, but it's way better than first past the post. This gets rid of a lot of problems. If you want it better explained I suggest watching the videos on voting by CGP Grey

[@davidb5205]

Politics and movies are very different. They made the same point CGP Grey made. A FPTP voting system picks polarizing candidates, which is bad for politics but maybe better for something artistic like movies. A runoff voting system picks the mediocre candidate, which is better for politics since it pleases the most people, but is bad for movies since you want something that is emotionally charged and polarizing.

[@jamesburgess2k]

I only reason I want la la land to win, is because the director was snubbed by not winning any film awards for Whiplash, mainly best picture. He made a movie based on Hollywood, so he'll definitely grab some Oscars

[@s.y.7866]

Maybe everyone placed La la land as their first pick while Moonlight was second and that's how it won Best Picture

[@Linfamy]

Make a movie about nominating people for the Oscars. Instant Oscar winner!

[@RedJet-bq6fq]

Well I for one really enjoyed La La Land. I thought it as an unforgettable piece of art that is full of love

[@BeezerWashingbeard]

At 2:29 - Why do you feel the need to point out that most of the judges are white? Isn't the USA a white majority country? Would you, if the judges were mostly black, feel the need to point that out too?

[@ArticBlueFox96]

I love Vox, however I think that they failed to accurately describe the voting system. Ranked Choice Voting has a lot of benefits and only a few flaws, one flaw is that if an option doesn't get enough 1st choice or high choice votes, it has the possibility of being eliminated as a possibility. CGP Grey has a fantastic video series about voting that talks about this issue in more depth, but in a political framework instead of an celebrity award framework.

[@somerandomedgyguy1723]

didnt think I'd like this movie but I did. And yeah, mediocrity is being favored in any kind of art.

[@vasarat1]

Movies about making movies win more Oscars... on other news, the sky is blue and the sun is hot.

[@Condor0109]

I dont dislike the current process and believe that a film being polarizing should be considered a negative. The idea is to create a consensus. And please, separate the identity politics from film discussion, it makes your case seem a lot more biased.

[@PawlOwl]

ah, of course, need to squeeze in racism somewhere in there

[@critz6719]

there's no such thing as reverse racism

[@critz6719]

***** reverse racism doesn't exist

[@critz6719]

+MANTLE it's reverse, reverse racism. White people don't get discriminated for their race, they have privilege and benefits from it unlike poc. White people aren't oppressed. There's a difference between prejudice and racism.

[@PawlOwl]

+Claire Riri are you seriously this dumb? do you think white people only exist in north america and europe? maybe you should try to venture outside your village

[@critz6719]

+PawlOwl I live in a city, thank you very much.

[@tachiiderp]

So... basically the film that's liked by the most people wins the award? Who would've thought? Why in the world would "polarizing" films be the "best"? That's directly contradictory to both words.

[@4vR3n]

Because it created something new. It is about creativity, art and not about audience. Otherwise by popularity you could even elect transformers and similar title that are well far less instristing for cinema as a artform.

[@tachiiderp]

The whole point of the voting process is to make the elections democratic. The voters will use any standards they have for their choices. But suggesting transformers would win is ridiculous because you're then suggesting these voters have no standards at all, which is definitely not true and is never something I would've implied. It's never just about popularity, and it's never just about creativity and art (and whatever standards you might have). Being the "best" here means being the best in the sum of all these categories. If anything the whole bit about "creativity and art" matters a lot in these votes if any past wins using this system was any indication. Or else if IMDB was any indication, the average audience would've voted Inception to be the best film of the year in 2011.

[@edheff]

I loved La La Land, and if it wins I will be genuinely happy about it.

[@cheukhimngai62]

Sorry

[@felipe28g]

Disagree with base argument that runoff voting, as you call it, is a bad thing... It is objectively better than popular vote because of the scenarios where other movies you considered better than the most two popular picks would not even get voted upon. This is because people would feel there is no point in choosing a movie that has lower chances of winning than the most popular ones (which means completely ignoring movies that are nominated but might not be have a great chance of winning). In other words, a runoff system encourages people to actually rank and choose their favorite movies knowing that if their main pick is not chosen, they didn't waste their vote, and instead it goes to something that might've like better... While I do think the King's Speech wasn't as great as the Social Network, or Crash as good as Brokeback Mountain, focusing on the objectively fair voting system is counter productive, so instead the focus should be in judges and their own biases. You may not like it, but a system on which only the 2 most polarizing movies have chance of winning is not a good voting system. On the other hand, a runoff system is how an ideal democratic system would work; one which allows third parties to become part of the system instead having two established parties that everyone knows are the only ones that have the only chance of winning, while third parties a chastised by the losing party or cast to the side by voters that know they can't win.

[@MolotovBg]

It's all abour relating - every person does it when watching a movie. And I guess for those people who decide the Oscars, it's much easier to relate to movies about movies. :)

[@stvltiloqvent]

more reason to reject the establishment!! ;)

[@RSMJ]

Seems like a very fair voting process to me. A passionate response does not equate quality and a critic or expert should be able to balance the impact of the movie based on his or her circumstances and the quality in the crafting of a movie.

[@grahamburdick]

La La Land just won best picture. **sigh**

[@nadeyd9567]

We should switch our electoral system and the Oscar electoral system...

[@shreshtha786]

Omg the incredible prediction at 1:18

[@thegooseinator9614]

This is the wrong year to make this video honestly, because La La Land is actually really good and could be reasoned out as the deserved winner. If Hidden Figures was considered the favorite to win then that would be a different story XD

[@thehillshaveaviators]

"IRV is a bad voting system because La La Land is mediocre and Moonlight is fantastic" *cue Moonlight winning through IRV* oops

[@jackdonohue7893]

Liam Callahan La La Land is NOT mediocre.

[@aarond9563]

THANK YOU VOX! It made it even better that Joss was narrating!

[@michaelparker2449]

People voting for mediocrity in America... Wow what a surprise.

[@unknownunknowns]

Then get them to vote in the Library of Congress. Remember, a film has to be at least ten years old to enter.

[@SometimesCompitent]

I think this is a good thing. The King's Speech deserved to win. La La Land is spectacular. I think the broad appeal should beat the most passionate. I'm pulling for Moonlight but if La La Land wins, I won't complain.

[@SolAya21]

Moonlight is probably the most perfect movie made from a technical and artistic standpoint to anyone that knows cinema watch that movie and there is no way to say it isn't the best movie made. Its so well edited directed its concise the storytelling is captivating and subtle most of all it makes anyone who watches it feel something and have an opinion that's true art

[@melomania2637]

I like how Vox's first example of a "safe movie" is a goddamn _musical_. Just the name musical makes people cringe these days. Not to mention the suspension of disbelief people have grown to have about movies which simultaneously puts a bias down _on_ musicals. Because usually theyre so happy and go lucky, completely the opposite of reality. If youve watched La La Land you can see you completely forget its even a musical after the first scene. Its just straight beautiful with the colors, imagery, and story telling. The music is fantastic which is another amazement. Theyre playing _jazz_ the whole movie. Nobody even likes jazz these days, but its so groovy not to like! Normally your videos arent to bad Vox, but this was just a bad example if anything. Maybe in your opinion Moonlight was better, but La La Land absolutely deserved it.

[@jesusiscoollike]

00:11 Yes. La La Land is infact hands down the best movie of the year.

[@SamButVeryTall]

I've seen fall of the nominees this year, and I've got to say, "La La Land," is the best of the bunch. "Moonlight," is close, as are several of the other nominees, but "La La Land," is indeed superior. It has sort come under this siege now, where it is so popular that it is easy for us to go, "Nah, it's overrated, this other film is better," but this is groundless. Technically, the film is astounding. As a cinematic experience, almost more impressive. Let me remind you that only two years ago, it was "Whiplash," (wrote and directed by the talent behind "La La Land,) that was the film-goers favourite to win, and not just because it was fantastic. Indeed it is arguable that it was inferior to the winner of that year, "Birdman," but "Whiplash," was under-seen and under-rated, so inevitably, there were those who proclaimed it most deserving. So back to this year with the case of "La La Land," and its competitors, I certainly think that "Moonlight," or "Hell or Highwater," deserve to be more widely seen and publicly acclaimed, but the Academy has done it's job by nominating them. Ultimately, it will be "La La Lands," gold for a reason.

[@TheCoolerDanny]

Congratulations you played yourself.

[@AnirbanAin]

Do you not follow cgp grey? This is clearly the better voting system. And I am sure La La Land will be 1 in everyones list.

[@kari_sims]

1:18 you guys predicted it right :)

[@Neo47MORGOTH]

So far my favorite movie this Oscar season was Moonlight, with my runner up being La La Land. Both two really exceptional movies imo so if either one wins I'll be glad.

[@joshuaosborne9203]

La La Land deserves everything it gets. Loved every second of it...

[@mitchelnext1]

its good to see that voting for which movie is the best makes a lot more sense than the system in place for deciding who should be in charge of how the masses live their lives

[@beastksugaming]

of course vox has to throw in the comment about the academy being mostly white... in a majority white country lmao

[@peterchen7914]

You don't look at the country, you look at the Anglosphere. The Anglosphere is even whiter than America.

[@mmlas8683]

Logan Roth Yeah, a country that will turn non-white by 2040..

[@MikkoHaavisto1]

Nonsensical identity politics. As if people with a certain skin-color were a hive-mind.

[@SirKaison]

It's still majority white at the moment. Your point? Oh, and film was invented by white people.

[@stupidkitty84]

Kyle Bennett And your point [on white people created the movies]? A black man invented peanut butter but peanut butter isn't exclusive to blacks. The Chinese created pizza and printers but we don't say they are invisible owners to every pizza and printer in production to date. Hollywood has been white-washing its industry since forever, and that needs to change.

[@joshualee9540]

I still can't get over how the King's Speech won Best Picture in one of the most stacked Best Picture years in a long time.

[@01rai01]

What about 12 years a slave

[@peterchen7914]

shhhh it kills their naritive

[@colincnote2120]

Lol I love how it was lala no moonlight that one Oscar 😂😂😂

[@MovieHypeSA]

Why must America always complicate voting systems?? Why can't you just have 5 picks for best film for example.. 1st Pick 10 points, 2nd Pick gets 8 Points, 3rd Pick gets 6 Points, 4th Pick gets 4 Points and 5th Pick gets 2 points.. The one with the most points win.

[@DysnomiaFilms]

Well with that philosophy, why complicate things by making each ascending number 2 extra points. Why not just 1?

[@NoQuestions4sked]

2 + 4 + 6 + 8 = 20 20 > 10 2:1 2 people for every 1 voted for something other than the winner.

[@nancylord8080]

Excuse me, ElricBro, but how is what you're suggesting any simpler than IRV? Eliminating the lowest vote getter and redistributing their votes to their next highest candidates isn't rocket science. You're still suggesting a ranked-choice vote, but now you're complicating it by adding points. And you limit it to only 5 picks for best film. Who's to decide, and how to decide, which films make it into the top 5? Your proposal would institutionalize the vote splitting factor when multiple candidates are vying for one prize.

[@MatthewStidham]

The oscars were rewarding safe domestic movies long before 2011. The problem isn't the system, it is the people doing the voting.

[@therevebenyon]

so you're telling me the oscars have implemented preferential voting in the oscars (which doesn't need it) but not in your political system like every other country (hyperbole)? lmao good luck America

[@CryWolfFilms]

So you're just mad Moonlight isn't going to win. Gotcha.

[@KungaMatata]

Except it did. LOL

[@SaltySparrow]

I actually enjoyed La La Land a lot. Sure, not best movie ever made, but it revived a type of movie was have not seen in some time. So what is your favorite movie?

[@MDhaliwal27]

danekarl Moonlight, Manchester by the Sea, Hunt for the Wilderpeople, The Nice Guys

[@tejaskathuria5967]

Manchester By The Sea as of 2018, followed closely by Interstellar (with major credits to Hans Zimmer) and maybe Ladybird.

[@Ztevie92]

There are two types of viewers of films: 1. Deep themes, symbolism, work of art. But slow and quiet (a.k.a. Moonlight) 2. Visually stunning, great music. But cliche and trendy (a.k.a. La La Land) So yes, La La Land is the safer movie but Moonlight is the better one.

[@luks655]

this is safe mediocre journalism. How could a sappy musical (a genre that has been struggling with audiences for decades because of our cynical sensabilities) be considered safe? And besides that, the oscars were never meant to highlight polarizing films. There is other spaces in the film world for that. (cannes, sundance etc.) The whole point of the oscars is to highlight the movie LIKED BY THE MOST PEOPLE.

[@ivkol]

Yep, It will be much better if voters were mostly black refugee muslims. This will be much better then...

[@domadordepollosmm]

Guess both Moonlight and La La Land got it lol

[@samdragonborn5864]

Martin Menendez there was a mistake

[@vasarat1]

The Arrival should have won an Oscar.

[@scottoldhamchannel]

I guess you can take down this ridiculous video now ...

[@Rodrgo1997]

People that consider movies like The Artist (a mute film) and La la Land (musical) safe movies should think more than the colour of the actor's skin as a factor that make a movie daring and unique.