The Past Deeds Of The Lost Primarchs - 40K Theories

[@psykerwave2315]

2nd Primarch: "Does everything have to be gold? Isn't it kinda gaudy?" Big E: "...D E L E T E"

[@acar7468]

@TheGodEmperorofMankind He stole your sandwich, didn't he?

[@generalkenobi5173]

@@acar7468 ah for fk sake everyone knows not to steal the Emperor's sandwich

[@connormclernon26]

ThatOneGuyWhoHasA KZbinAccount he threw off his groove

[@jeffmusyoka1876]

😂

[@jeffmusyoka1876]

@@acar7468 I think he diiid

In the book "The Horus Heresy 12: A Thousand Sons" is a dialog between Magnus and Mortarion right before the great parade in front of the Emperor on Ullanor. Magnus reminds Mortarion of a prior meeting of 9 of the brothers on an unknown planet. Here is my (bad) translation from German to English: "Brother," Magnus replied, ignoring Mortarion's remark. Nine sons of the Emperor come together on one world, something like that has not happend since ... ". "I know very well, since when it did not happend anymore," Mortarion interrupted him. His voice was firm and determined, a stark contrast to his pale face. "And the Emperor has forbidden us to ever talk about it again, do you disregard his command?" This may indicate both a free and a warlike "gathering" long before Horus become Warmaster.

[@keingdougie24]

Alexander Rüpke he’s talking about Molech.

[@abrammilner9560]

Very good translation. Thank you for sharing that

[@sanguiniusonvacation1803]

Yo 40k theories .I got something interesting for you . Codex Tyranids 8th edition says that Hive Fleet tiamet is building some structure on a planet , and are bringing biomass to it . They are actually settling a world and not eating everything on it .

[@deep_fried_analysis]

+

[@camilguzman6488]

.

[@BatteredWalrus]

Sanginius on vacation oh, maybe a hive beacon? That or a system wide overmind? Or even some sort of gateway portal like in the expanse

[@grolash6219]

I think he already did the subject

[@sanguiniusonvacation1803]

Patrick Milewski the jungle world of Ziaphoria, a little bit outside of ultima segmentum. The codex theorizes it's a homing device, but also says it radiates the hive mind to a extreme degree .

[@Olanius_Pius666]

You forgot thier most important feat... one that Horus couldn't even get. They pissed off the Emperor enough he had all records of them destroyed and no one... not even the high lords of Tera or the top members of the inquisition know anything about them.

[@gizmatalcoholic4113]

sudanema mimikiki Nope. Thanks to the Ecclesiarchy, the traitor primarchs are taught and were painted to be the ‘evil’ counterparts of the ‘good’ primarchs that the chaos gods made to oppose the God-Emperor. Even if the censorship went through, the Imperium’s religion would let it see light again.

[@CountingStars333]

@@gizmatalcoholic4113 only traitor primarch common folk know about is horus.

[@joenobody5913]

I understand why you're making the assumption, but I don't think this is necessarily true (I actually don't think BL has their ducks enough in a row to even have an actual story of what really happened but anyways...). It's possible that Horus just did too much to actually hush up and not that it was somehow less worse than whatever the two "lost" primarchs did. There's a big difference between having to hush up what ONE legion does and what 9 of them do (or 8...sorry can't be bothered to look). Plus the emperor was slightly fucked up at the end of the HH and Malcs was gone so it ain't like they could hush it up anyways. Not to mention it probably being hard to quiet something up when it's STILL a problem 10k years later.

[@Ian-nl9yd]

the emperor probably would've had horus struck from the record if he wasn't stuck on a gold toilet for the rest of eternity

[@Lycurgus1982]

@@Ian-nl9yd thanks, Magnus. 😡

[@MrPlayboyPaul]

Something I have never seen mentioned by anyone is a little tidbit from The First Heretic. In a discussion between two Wordbearers when they have neen brought to the Emporers laboratory through some warp shenanigans is a mention of one of the lost legions primarchs, this is the exact quote from the original; "Xaphen moved away from the others, coming to the pod etched with XI. Rather than peer into its depths, he looked over his shoulder at Argel Tal. ‘The eleventh primarch sleeps within this pod - still innocent, still pure. I ache to end this now,’ he confessed. Malnor chuckled from behind the Chaplain. ‘It would save us all a lot of effort, wouldn’t it?’ ‘And it would spare Aurelian from heartbreak.’" This says to me that perhaps the Space Wolves weren't the only legion involved in the eradication of the lost and the purged. It further hints at the 11th maybe being corrupted by khaos with the "Still pure", reference.

[@hypnofrezzefan]

It was mention by Sanginus, that He feared to Tell the Emporer about the Gene Flaws inside his Legion. Indicate further He dont want his Sons purged for this. Like it is Not the First time.

[@nikik5567]

Sapradon yeah I caught that. Maybe the legions had some kinda mutation that couldn’t be reigned in like the angels, so the emperor purged the legions, and since it’s the lost primarchs that the gene seed came from, he purged them as well knowing any new astartes in those legions would have the same issue.

[@hypnofrezzefan]

@@nikik5567 I guess too, it had to be something dramatic. When even Malcador, state that they would had been no help during the HH.

[@nikik5567]

Sapradon flesh change on steroids maybe?

[@Tahanok2]

Perhaps I'm recalling a theory from someone else, but my thoughts have long been that one of the legions is the "Lost" (physically or morally) and the other "Purged". Same outcome, but different reasons. One had some sort of gene flaw/mutation that required the entire legion destroyed. The other either committed an offense so grave that it was somehow considered worse than the Horus Heresy, or was potentially literally lost in time and space due to alien tech, magic, or a warp storm.

[@xuttuh5260]

I think it is heavily implied in the HH books that these two primarchs stood up against the will of their father and opposed his strategy of conquering the galaxy by brute force. The remaining primarchs express similar thoughts in private discussions throughout the HH books, but seem to be afraid to talk about this even among themselves. I am under the impression that the primarchs witnessing the fate of their lost brothers gravely and unchangeably damaged the relationship to their father. Despite the Emperor refering to the primarchs as his sons, the fate of their brothers showed them that he never would trust them fully or see them as equals. Some of them even seem to be afraid of him, which tells a lot, or have accepted their role as mere tools of his great plan. If the primarchs are each incarnating different aspects of the Emperor, what if the missing primarchs incarnated aspects the emperor deemed undesirable for his plan? In order to conquer a whole universe by ruthless war, you would basically be required to silence (kill) your doubts/fears and empathy, which might have been expressed in the two lost primarchs, one proposing a less violent way to rule and another maybe even being pacifistic by nature. The Emperor maybe killed both of them as traitors, like he metaphorically killed these very human motions from his self. And this might have well been the reason for his downfall to evil and eventually the decaying state the imperium is in the 41st millennium.

[@Spaz0001]

Man that’s clever

[@nikik5567]

Well it’s a good theory, but it has a couple holes in it, mainly that it’s evident that the two legions did get involved in the crusade, and I doubt they’d have been involved at all if they were THAT hard lined against it. Also, the state of the modern imperium really isn’t because the emperor is evil so much as it is because he was hesitant to kill his son. The lords of terra can say they speak for the emperor all they want but they’re full of shit. He has had little to nothing to do with the physical state of the imperium once he was interred in the golden throne, he instead acts only within the warp.

[@xuttuh5260]

@@nikik5567 Good points, but the fact that they had joined the crusade does not tell anything about whether their behaviour was compliant, also the emperor has proven to be quite unpredictable and contradictory in his decisions. For example, Lorgar was allowed to act as a zealous missionary for literally hundreds of years, worshipping E as a god, until he was even sanctioned. Some of the primarchs eagerly presented their father with their own interpretation of his philosophy to please him, like children would do (e.g. Magnus, Lorgar, Roboute) - at least the ones who were not only pragmatic and obedient, that is. My personal view is that one of the primarchs succumbed to chaos due to his doubts about the emperor's ways and the other one tried to stop him. He had forged alliances with Xenos (compare the Interex) and learnt much about the warp and alien "magic", allowing him to defeat (kill?) his brother "lost" to chaos (demon prince?). Proudly (and foolishly in hindsight) presenting his successes achieved through a confederate/democratic system to his father, the emperor was not amused and purged the primarch and a part of his legionaries from history. This would fit the, say complicated, psychology of the emperor, as he was trying to hide the truth about the warp even from the primarchs, revealing it only to Horus (despite most of the primarchs already had more or less experience with the immaterium and just played surprised when E at last introduced the concept). The Rangdan Xenocides would in this scenario be a cover-up story for the events described above. Humans meddling and mixing with aliens was an abomination for the emperor, so purging this primarch excommunicatus-level was a no-brainer for him. It tells a lot about the emperor that the traitor primarch would only be referred to as "lost", even when he in this context was the real bad guy and threat. Falling to chaos seems to be more excusable than having business with Xenos. Big E has an at least twisted idea of moral, trust and loyalty - he demonstrated that and it resonates a lot in the behaviour of the remaining primarchs later in the crusade. But this is just my head-fluff I am sharing here.

[@danang5]

@@nikik5567 iirc they do contribute to the war,the document just got purged,the legion also got redistributed to other legion after the purging also isnt emphaty sanguinus tho?

[@nikik5567]

Danang M. Fauzan I think u misread my comment.

[@loganstafford249]

What if the rangdans never existed. The rangdans were just a cover up for a war with the lost legions. The losses were devastating because the dark angels and space wolves were fighting a guerilla war with the lost ones. The lost legions may have been proficent in this kind of warfare as all legions were specialised in some form or another, leading to the devastating losses of loyal imperial forces. They were erased because the conflict was on a relatively small scale compared with the Horus Heresy. Two legions "disappearing" could be easily "explained" but a galactic wide, well-known civil war in which half of the remaining space marine legions slaughtered billons of loyalist (I dont know how many died but it was most definitly a shit ton) including three loyal primarchs and THE EMPEROR ended up dead would be impossible to explain especially after the retaliation of Rogal Dorn and the need to write the codex astartes.

[@Tzeeensh]

I tend to think the same way.

[@stetavey1622]

That's what I thought Even Russ on his way to but prospo says it's not the first time he had to take care of brother marines

[@HandlesAreStupid2024]

Russ doesn't seem like the type to fight guerilla wars.

[@VinceYT2408]

We know for sure that the Space Wolves have already erased a Legion before they were sent to destroy the Thousand Sons. So it can be true for at least one Legion. The other is more secret, so that GW may utilise it later. I did create something for my own RPG campaign about it with a VERY good reason to delete the primarch from the records.

[@MrStimpson38]

My thoughts exactly!

[@aganaom1712]

the custodes gonna be knockin on this door any minute now

[@teecefamilykent]

You mean the inquisition?

[@kirillassasin]

No thanks, don’t expect 3 naked custodes posing within my door

[@exactinmidget92]

so glad you mentioned The Regimental Standard. we need to remind the troops that The Standard is the only place to get 100% accurate information*. * Please report to your local Commissar if Information is gather elsewhere.

[@miggiraed.raquinel8867]

exactinmidget92 i would not report to what you monkeigh call commisar i would take his heart and soul to feast on

[@commissarchaplainradke92]

Get back in formation Guardsman

[@kallas1558]

Oh by Isha..

[@miggiraed.raquinel8867]

Commissar Chaplain Radke yes get back to your slave pen commisar

[@essexclass8168]

For the love of- Eldar cosplaying was banned last week private!, now get back in line before the watchmeister verbally abuses you for something you didn't do, and take that Yarrick-wannabe off already.

[@steel_valkyrie3022]

"The Warmaster" could have been the Nickname of one of the lost primarchs, such as Ferrus Mannus was known as "The Gorgon" and Sanguinius "The Angel". Perhaps it was chosen as a title later to pay tribute to a fallen brother?

[@deff_bepis]

*sees the words lost and primarchs in notifications* *smashes screen in pure joy*

[@sama.8272]

SuperAdamska64 too bad you are a furry HERETIC LION LOVING BITCH! YOU NEED TO SPEND MORE TIME BEING RAISED BY WOLVES!

[@deff_bepis]

Sam A. This is the second time I’ve had to explain this, I’m not a furry... furries are heresy, does having an animal as your profile picture make you a furry... NO

[@urapooper362]

What if the 2nd was the Warmaster but the redaction was so good we believe The position didnt exist before Horus

[@liamwilliams8452]

Oooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nice thinking.

[@MiggeS]

You Guys have to read the Ferrus Manus primarch book. To tell if there was a warmaster before Horus Lupercal.

[@em4rtzz]

MiggeS what book is that??

[@orangvii3633]

Actually Lionel Johnson was supposed to be warmaster

[@MiggeS]

@@em4rtzz Ferrus Manus primarch book from the horus heresy primarchs series

[@xuttuh5260]

In the HH novels, it was mentioned that the headcount of the Ultramarines increased dramatically and very fast during some time of the great crusade. So maybe only the primarch of at least one legion was purged.

[@teecefamilykent]

Another theory is...one of them are now the legion of the dammed, some sort of warp accident?

[@michaelhowell2326]

And just one more thing, why haven't any of the Traitor marines spoken of these lost legions and primarchs? Some of them were definitely alive at this point and are by no means honor-bound to never speak of them. It would make sense they would talk about to just taunt loyalist. What do you think, Remleiz?

[@Lightman0359]

michael howell if they had, any witnesses would have been purged by the ordos chronos and Hereticus. There's also that ordo whose entire purpose is to edit/falsify history, hopefully soon to be purged themselves by Papa Smurf (since re-establishing a true, uncensored history is one of his side gigs)

[@xCaptainCrunsh]

The Inquisition was founded way after the Horus Heresy, and had nothing to do with the lost legions

[@greatbalwaagh2465]

I believe even after their leaving of Imperial Service, the subject of those 2 Primarchs was still something of a terrifying subject. I recall a book that had a discussion between the traitor primarchs before the rebellion started, and Lorgar mentions the possibility of seeking out the lost legions, but Horus shouts down his suggestion and reminds him that they "don't talk about them."

[@40KTheories]

Well as mentioned in the video, Flavius Alkenex does talk about one of them briefly to Fabius Bile. While they can speak of them it's more of a case that none of them have had a reason to.

[@Lightman0359]

xCaptainCrunsh but by the time the traitors could think about anything aside from conquering the Imperium and not getting killed by thier former brothers, the Inquisition was in full swing (being started by Malcador before he took the golden throne for the Emperor during the battle of Terra)

[@Zeke90k]

they are all ALPHARIUS

[@johnfraire6931]

Zeparoh Everyone is Omegon, we get it already. ...No wai-

[@Sigmar_Heldenhammer]

I can firmly say that I’m not alpharius, weather or not you believe it is up to you.

[@generalkenobi5173]

@@Sigmar_Heldenhammer we are all alpharius

[@OgamiClan]

I am Alpharius. He too is Alpharius.

[@sorenthelurker5506]

@@OgamiClan Fuck you bitch, I am Alpharius. (No offense)

[@zedthefatone2864]

The Regimental Standard IS canon, i will fight you on this. THEY WILL GLUE CADIA BACK TOGETHER!!!

[@morethanjustasloth5528]

Fuck man they can't even stitch two pages back together.

[@KertaDrake]

Just gotta wait for the Mechanicus to find the legendary Duct Tape STC.

[@actualgorilla5573]

@@KertaDrake no the FLEX TAPE one

[@johnathanblackwell9960]

@@actualgorilla5573 Now I'm just imagining them finding a Billy Mays infomercial for Oxy Clean and weaponizing it against the forces of Nurgle.

[@Der_Dekanter]

@@johnathanblackwell9960 that would be a funny TTS episode

[@serioushamster]

The emperor looks a lot like Tommy Wiseau.I think one of the primarchs found an ancient copy of The Room. This was the ultimate hersey.

[@stevepalpatine2828]

serioushamster YOU ARE TEARING ME APAHT LEMAN!

[@perfectch4059]

I know I'm late but... I DID NAHT CENSOR, IT'S NAHT TRUE, IT'S BULLSHET! I DID NAHT CENSOR! I DID NAAAAAHHT!!! O HAI MALCADOR.

[@kirillassasin]

And why he returned to Terra? To watch this Room of course

[@dinoduelist2219]

Comparing Big E to Tommy Wiseau is the ultimate heresy

[@flamingmuffin666]

The more I've thought of the lost legions, the more I believe that one legion had a geneseed weakness to the Rangdan, such that they were converted, and the other wanted to stop fighting. Both are referred to specifically as "failures" but not as traitors etc., with one being "purged" and the other being "forgotten". Coupled that with Sanguinius' distress should the black rage be discovered, as he knows geneseed problems can lead to purging. a failure for a primarch/legion is to not further the great crusade, which means failing to do so, or not trying. A strong narrative for the Imperium is that the Space Marines are awe inspiring, geneseed problems and dissent challenge that. The narrative is maintained if the people see them are flawless and unified. One legion's geneseed problem was redacted to maintain the image of flawlessness, another legion was left to be forgotten since they wouldn't fight.

[@jakeku2662]

I've long thought the same, than one fell to Xeno influence and the other refused to kill his brother.

[@TheJuvenalis]

Primarchs were lost and purged. Legions had no fault and were saved by Dorn and Guiliman. Thats why UltraMarines grew big. That why Soul Drinkers had unknown geneseed. Their gene father was classified.

[@John-Stark]

One's Slaying Deamons and Rivals Angron in Anger, and the Other is a Private on Catchacan

[@brianelliott8463]

This is admittedly an instance of wild speculation, but I think it would have interesting consequences on how we all view the Horus Hersey: The excerpt says "Hail the emporer. Hail the Warmaster." Could it possibly be supposed that the Primarch of either the Second or Eleventh Legions had been named Warmaster prior to Ullanor, and that Horus was, as it turns out, the second choice for the post? Granted, the point is well made that all of this is perhaps not to be taken seriously, but damn if this situation wouldn't have made Horus second guess himself the ENTIRE time, and thus lead him all the easier into the embrace of the ruinous powers. As ever, very well done video. We are all much obliged to you.

[@williamamely7038]

In my back story for the 2nd Legion, their Primarch and Horus were being considered for Warmaster, but a Mutation affected the 2nd Legion's Primarch that forced the Emperor ( under the advice of Rogal Dorn, Sanguinius and Lorgar) to place the Primarch under house arrest and order most of the Legion's strength transferred to the command of Lorgar, Guilliman and Vulkan.

[@frostryu]

@@williamamely7038 Eh, my backstory is that the 11th legion had previous encounters with The Rak'Dan, and while he had a bit of a grudge match going with The Lion, was called in as a temporary warmaster, while the Emperor focused on other things.

[@ssjjshawn]

With what we know from Fulgrim's novels and other EC stories that lay hints about the Second (and notably comes the closest we have ever gotten to hearing one of them speak when Fulgrim recalls that 2nd called him arrogant for thinking he could take a planet with so few Space Marines, and Fulgrim thought he was a hypocrite), and recent talk from the Custodes basically outright confirming the 11th Legion was the Purged of the two and manipulated by their Primarch into treason, I think it went down like this: The second is discovered very early on into the Crusade, we know he was 3rd only after Leman and Horus. Even with this, his Geneseed isn't the most compatible for most people, so his recruitment remained lower. In response to this, the Second Primarch turns far more to securing better Wargear, Air Supperiority and advanced technology for his Legion to offset their numbers disparity. This soon turned into far increased cooperation with certain newly discovered Forge Worlds, and they became far more reliant on the Mechanicus and tied to parts of it. Not as a whole. It is known the Second Primarch was poking around the Ygma Monolith early on in the Great Crusade, and with them being closer to the Cult Mechanicus of course they try and study it. Possibly with some success later on, if they needed to be completely retgonned. The 11th Legion also had Geneseed issues and with a later found Primarch, they never really became a true full Legion. They spent almost 200 years watching their cousins win Glory and Honor and Hundreds of worlds. While they were sidelined with bad Geneseed and no Primarch . Aka Iron Warriors but far far worse as at least the Iron Warriors get to fight often, even if its thankless. This leads to inexperienced leaders, and a willingness to prove themselves no matter the cost or reason. The 11th himself has a bunch of different statements as to when he was found, but we also know that Big E didn't announce to everyone when a Primarch was always found, and their official reveals were not done in order of when they were actually reunited. So Big E dismissing the Lost and the Purged when meeting Corax could be just the Big E already knowing that those two pieces would not make it to the Heresy, and with how large the Galaxy was and how busy all the Primarchs were, Corax wouldn't meet either before their fates had been sealed. To top it off the decrees of not speaking about them at all, and mind wiping means any of those possible doubts or questions the Primarchs had would be gone. Which also tracks with Rogal and Guilliman ordering the mind wipes. More on why this makes sense after we talk about what just about everyone assumes the lost 2 were lost in: Space Carthage Or er the Ragdan. Considering this is GW, and Xenos in any era post War in Heaven means they run into Humans and can't really have more than a few paragraphs where they are winning. So of course Space Hannibal isn't going to be a Xenos. Space Hannibal was the newly found and eager to prove himself 11th Primarch, who rushed into the worst Enemy the Imperium would face until Chaos and got corrupted by Ragdan Biotechnology in the Second Punic War. This, being a Primarch boosted by Horrifying Xenos tech and with knowledge of the Imperium and the arrogance of the era, his corruption went unnoticed or unreported when he returned to Imperial Forces. From there, he uses this position to direct devastating counter attacks into Imperial space, and direct the Imperial assaults into the absolute worse fortified systems outside of Sol. This of course prompts more Legions to join in, bringing back in the Dark Angels when they hear that they didn't actually finish off a foe, the Space Wolves, the Second, and possibly even the Word Bearers alongside the rest of the 11th Legion coming in. Here the 11th sees an opportunity, having actually read the Imperial Truth and Lorgar's book (who we know he gave to everyone). Declaring Lorgar to be a traitor and saying he was religious, he ordered his own Legion to attack the word bearers before they could come into the conflict zone. This finally drew attention, and exposed the 11th as a traitor ordering Imperial forces to attack Imperial forces. With that, the 11th is eventually cornered and defeated by the Lion, Leman and the Second. Seeing what the Rangda are capable of, the Second orders the full use of all of their technology to combat them. Tech based off of the Ygma Monolith studies and possibly some (aka knowing AdMech (yes yes pre admech times but you know what I mean) a shit ton) of excavation of tech. Necron tech. Not exactly something to be showing off in public, let alone in the mass produced hands of an entire Legion. I mean the Dark Angels get away with it, but thats because the Big E said so. 2nd place tried to do what big Brother did, but found out like all little siblings, different rules for different kids. This is Big E, let's not act like he doesn't do that. Or possibly the 2nd just made it a little too public, so Big E couldn't ignore it like he did a lot of his sons other faults. Or my personal option that Big E didn't give a shit and secretly approved, but more or less had gotten pressured by Mars into erasing him. So instead he turned the 2nd into the lost Primarch. However the 2nd Primarch had a role that needed filling, and just because Big E finally got railroaded in politics by a screw up one of his sons made didn't mean he wasn't going to take revenge on the AdMech (yes, I know, fuck you its shorter to type and we know what I'm talking about) To add more headcanon, I also think the Second was an undiscovered Psycker or the counterto Magnus. So with a level of Aint Psychic removal now completely gone and someone to point the figure at (even if they couldn't remember it thanks to mindwipes), in retaliation for a lost son, the Emperor orders 25 Warlord Titans from Mars to replace his role, but more importantly for petty revenge even if they don't know it. At the height of the war its implied the Big E unleaded the Void Dragon, and this may have been prompted, so I can see it being any or even a mix of all the above. The corruption of a full Primarch by the Ragdan and a full Legion of Tech Heresy are very much counter to Golden Boys Rogal and Robert's views, let alone in the Great Crusade. Rogal says they would have lost if the two stood beside him still not because they were gone or wouldn't make a difference. But because their methods would have run counter to the Imperial Truth. They would have lost by becoming a different type of traitor in using xeno tech, and this is right after Old Night and with none of the Primarchs knowing of Chaos. This would be by and far the biggest sin of the times.

[@MishraArtificer]

@@ssjjshawn I like it. And bonus points for bringing the Ordo Sinister into it, too.

[@Ajehy]

I’ve got a theory, based on a gap in the lore: Either the Lost or the Purged Focused on naval warfare. I mean, worlds covered in liquid can’t be that rare, there’s even world where the entire human civilization is underwater. We have Marines who specialize in stealth, berserk fury, fortress building and fortress breaking, but no one who specializes in literal marine warfare? That seems like a huge gap, when looking at earth’s own history of naval campaigns. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

[@jakebamford3435]

Ajehy that’s the perfect explanation for the carcarodons!

[@KyrieFortune]

Even more ironic when you realize the biggest Legion/Chapter is the UltraMARINEs... the guys literally called "beyons the sea" have no knowledge of naval warfare.

[@tomboysupremacist]

@@KyrieFortune void warfare is considered naval warfare in a space setting, hence the imperial navy.

[@Warrior-Of-Virtue]

8:11 It sounds like both the II and XI Legions and their Primarchs were wiped out during the Rangdan Xenocide. If that is the case, then perhaps the reason they were expunged from Imperial record is that the Emperor had renounced them as failures.

[@HaqqAttak]

Or they mutinied in response to their legions being all but wiped out in a pointless campaign. Some of them must have survived because they were sent into the ranks of the Ultramarines.

[@Warrior-Of-Virtue]

I'm amending my theory. It occurred to me that the Emperor might have had a far less petty reason for expunging his sons after their defeat. If word of two Primarchs and their entire legions being wiped out reached the greater Imperium, the myth of the Legions' invincibility would be shattered forever and could have potentially lead to mass revolts throughout the Imperium.

[@neckutter]

In the HH 30k book containing 1k sons, it said that the lost primarchs was exiled for deliberately throwing his legion away. Magnus used his sorcery to conquer the system within a year by reading the minds of the xenocide leaders and figuring out their weakpoints.

[@198of505]

Personal head cannon is that all the assets that were "lost" in the Rangdan Crusade were actually sent out of the Galaxy towards one of nearby galaxies, so as in the event of massive xray burst or some other galaxy wide event wiping life out in the Milky Way, humanity would survive, bit like BSG / Star Gate Universe, the fleet also carries a Web Way gate and the plan was to link this spar directly to Terra, so the Emperor could escape if things got seriously bad on Terra

[@Joey-fb7wn]

I honestly wish GW would stop caring about our headcanons and our own painted lost legions and make more content about them. They can still keep it a mystery just make it more intersting.

[@CMAzeriah]

There is one feat that I can think of. When Malcador opted to tear down their statues, Horus and two of his brothers, Alpharius and Jaghatai Khan, would confront him. I would wager that that confrontation put one of the cracks in Horus' armor that would lead to his fall.

[@TheVakama112]

Theory: the primarch of the eleventh (the purged) turned, joining the Rangdans, and was therefore purged at the end of the xenocides, him and his legion purged both from existence and imperial records. The primarch of the second legion (the lost) was killed in the campaign, and most of his legion lost, the rest being absorbed into the ultramarines as mentioned in one of the heresy novels, while the eleventh legion was purged. The second was removed from records so as to maintain morale and the belief that primarchs, and space marine legions as a whole were nigh invincible and could not be wiped out or killed, while the eleventh was erased for the obvious reason of being traitors.

[@MiggeS]

first of all the 11th primarch was rediscovered many years after the rangdan xenocide ended.

[@TheVakama112]

MiggeS they both participated in the campaign as far as I can I tell

[@MiggeS]

TheGreatVakama112 Explain how that is possible.

[@TheVakama112]

You lost me. What do you mean explain how that's possible. Firstly, we know for a fact that their records were actually purged DURING the Xenocides, as all records of them were purged 43 years before the Drop Pod Massacre, whilst the Xenocides ended 6 years before the drop pod massacre, and started 45 years before the drop pod massacre, thus we can assume that they took part in the conflict, seeing as their legions did. Frankly I see no flaw in this theory. And following up to your statement that the 11th was rediscovered many years after the xenocides, again, from what I could find the xenocides ended 6 years before the onset of the Heresy, so it's immensely doubtful that statement is true.

[@fortkavanagh]

Is it possible that the one of the lost two primarchs was in fact the original warmaster before horris?

[@100thMkey]

thats what I'm thinking perhaps a great blunder of command, flawed gene seed or even corruption lead to the loss of an entire legion

[@LocalHeretic-ck1kd]

So he was named a warmaster but the whole campaign was one big screw up so they decided to forgot that this ever happened. Could be.

[@fortkavanagh]

I think it's more like Horrus is a replacement for the original one that was either killed in battle or executed for treason... it is theorized that one lost primarch got killed in battle and the other lost one was executed for treason pre-Horus heresy?

[@fortkavanagh]

that exactly what I was thinking.

[@MultiZavira]

I do recall in one of the older 40K Theories videos about the lost legions (can't remember the name of the video) it was mentioned that the Ultramarines grew in size that eclipsed other legions. The theory was that perhaps the primarchs committed a crime but the space marines were innocent so they were absorbed into the Ultramarines legion. If that's the case then perhaps the legions were not lost but the primarchs might have been executed or otherwise killed. My theory is that perhaps they plotted against the Emperor of Mankind, he caught wind of it and had them executed in secrecy. This theory is flawed but I think it's possible.

[@Vaegarion]

Great vid as always. I look forward to your theories. I know that we will likely never find out what happened to the lost legions and who they were for that matter,but damn I want to know so badly!

[@zenoblues7787]

Joshua Dowdall that's sadly impossible as they are purposefully built to be blank slates for the player to fill in.

[@TheMagicalPinata]

Blood Ravens have essentially been confirmed to be successor to the Thousand Sons

[@LuisPandabmb]

TheMagicalPinata can you tell me where that was confirmed? I'd like to read about it

[@isaacvincent8443]

I like to think that Trazyn occasionally stops in at one of his many display galleries on Solemnace to rearrange two full Legions with their Primarchs.

[@jeffmusyoka1876]

lost primarch: we have a saying about pots and pans Big E: did someone say plots and plans? Lost primarch: NO wait waiiit! Big E: *DELETE* 👇😎

[@6Stevo]

Great video. Good to see GW keeping some mystery alive in the lore. 😊

[@Reformed322]

6 + Stevo Not gonna lie, I wish GW wouldn’t keep it a mystery anymore. It’s quite annoying.

[@6Stevo]

Timothy Weller trust me they need to keep it a mystery. We THINK we want to know. But if we did it would only dissapoint. Mystery keeps our imagination going. And we can speculate on the snippets of information they give us.

[@Mugdorna]

Absolutely. If GW did publish info on the lost legions the fan boys would split between “love it, I’m buying both” or “ hate it, I’m leaving 40K” or “I shall choose to ignore this retcon”

[@Reformed322]

I definitely agree with that, I actually went on to read other comments and someone said that GW told HH writers to stop saying anything about the lost legions because the lost legions were created so that people can role play their own legions of first founding chapters. Can you link me a source for this?

[@dimwitsixtytwelve]

timothy weller I first discovered 40k in the early 90's. in the codex I read it had a list of the legions with 2 and 11 labelled as 'expunged'. that was it, no hints or clues and it's only now that we are being drip fed hints! at this rate I may find out the truth on my death bed!

[@northumbriabushcraft1208]

The 'dressing a lasgun wound' article on the regimental standard is from 'the imperial infantryman's uplifting primer' a official black library book, and along with the 'imperial munitorium manual' my favorite things black library has ever produced. they are so awesome, and give you a deep look into the life, tactics and equipment of the imperial guard you don't see on the models or in the codex books.

[@clintmorgan1491]

Everyone knows that Sly Marbo is one of the lost primarchs. EVERYONE KNOWS THAT

[@TheSmart-CasualGamer]

Corvus has confirmed that that is NOT true.

[@vsGoliath96]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA-!!!!

[@MediumRareOpinions]

No no no, Sly Marbo is source of the genetic material Cawl used to engineer Primaris Marines.

[@orangvii3633]

no, being a primarch would be a demotion for him

[@gabrielhumbert9814]

Nah sigmar from fantasy is one of the lost primarchs because fantasy is a pocket dimension consitung of only 100 worlds but we only see one of those 100 because it could be the world that one of the lost primarchs landed on

[@dennisvicarth6823]

Your videos are one of the few things I look forward to these days. You never disappoint.

[@HaqqAttak]

That's pretty dark and grim.

[@hardcase722]

Really loving the content! Thanks for putting such effort and time into your videos!

[@theodoremccarthy7031]

Great video. It occurs to me that one of the two lost primarchs may have been granted the rank of Warmaster to oversee the Rangdan xenocides, and that fact was redacted along with all other details of The Lost and The Purged.

[@AD_Gray]

Another superb video! So tantalisingly intriguing as always :)

[@TheGreatThicc]

Wasn't the actual reason they don't exist is so people could roleplay ther own legions?

[@michaellewis1545]

Yes but a lore reason has been hinted at throughout the Hours Hersey books.

[@patton5283]

That is the official reason, though people usually avoid creating their own legions out of fear of Gary Su accusations.

[@lionblaze99]

Yes, but this does beg the question why do you need two lost legions?

[@Captain_Mzungu]

There are 2 because there are usually 2 players in a single game. You can both make up your own legion that way and it won't mess with anything... until your next game of course.

[@kingbaldwiniv5409]

Eric Grieve In modern canon that wouldn't make sense. None of the modern chapters come from open background templates, they all came from one of the legions, whether loyal or heretic. There would have to be some story mechanism which could tie them back to a heritage unique from the known legions. Even if those astartes were simply rolled into the Ultramarines, they would still be vanilla-marines. You could still make your own chapters in a chapter based 40k system without needing mystery primarchs.

[@joshuaswinarton3274]

I like to think that one of the legions sided with the Rangdan and another of the legions perhaps abandoned the Great Crusade to do something else.

[@100thMkey]

I was just thinking that too

[@RustMonarch]

My guess would be, the two lost legion Primarchs outright refused to join the Emperor, for one reason or another. The Emperor either purged them, or left them in the unknown and gave the legionnaires to the Ultramarines. Could explain why no one ever mentions them, and there spaces are covered up at the table. Deemed unworthy perhaps?

[@chriskoukakis2285]

Awesome video guys,keep up the good work!!!

[@CodeineRadick]

Is it possible that one of the lost primarchs was the first Warmaster? I do not recall there ever being anything stating that Horus was the first to hold the rank. Keep these coming Remleiz. You give voice to my thoughts so very often. :)

[@michaelhowell2326]

Wait up every Sunday for these videos. Can we get something on Belakor and/or the Thunder Warriors?

[@40KTheories]

I do have something planned on thunder warriors in future

[@jduluoz3131]

I’ve always held the theory that one of the primarchs turned to Chaos for the “right reason” and one stayed loyal for the “wrong reason.” It could be that one of the legions sacrificed itself to keep the other trapped in the Warp.

[@zuluactual839]

So, the Primarch of the of the second was possibly a Wise one. "Contemplative" "There was an old Terran saying" "No sense of humor" (or possible has little humor) "Spoke so Little" The second Primarch, possibly, throughout his life spends time by reflection. He possibly brought down his world upon its knees by Philosophy. Or possibly, DID NOT CONQUER IT AT ALL and just lived a normal life, till the Emperor arrived. So in my conclusion, The Second Primarch is still alive since the Rengdan Xenocide and is living a secluded simple life, disbanding its legion to be absorbed to Guilliman's (because of how the Second treated the Xenocide as a failure, and no wise man can see it as a over all win, thus Asking the Emperor to relieve him as a Primarch of a Legion "Entire Legions [Redacted]" might be disbanded, "Lost to the Imprerium"), since Guilliman is a Primarch of Politics (IMO) and I would think he agreed to take care of the Second's sons. And the 11th might have followed or was killed in the xenocide.

[@Filther-13]

I saw in a carcharadons lore video that they will start getting shit done on a bigger scale should their founder/primarch return. Twist: the carcharadons refer to their founder/primarch as "The Forgotten one"

[@TrickyRidz]

Love your videos reimlez, keep up the awesome work

[@greatbalwaagh2465]

I read on the Warhammer wikia that there was a source that stated the 2nd Legion primarch was involved with the Night of the Wolf. As stated in record, two primarchs were sent by the Emperor to deal with Angron after his censure for using the Buther's Nails technology. Though the 2nd primarch was unsuccessful in convincing Angron to stop his usage of the technology, which results in Leman russ being the second primarch to show up and deal with Angron.

[@rigulur]

maybe they're known as the Lost because Angron got so pissed he threw them into space

[@greatbalwaagh2465]

Louis Johnson Well. . .probably not since Angron lost the Night of the Wolf. So I doubt that's why 2nd primarch was forgotten for that reason, since it was still somewhat early in the crusade, and the 2nd primarch didn't become "The Lost and the Purged," until after the majority of the Crusade was over and before Alpharius was found.

[@nobodyimportant5417]

I remember reading a quote somewhere that, "All the things we (GW, black library, etc.) are canon, but that doesn't mean it's all true." With the administratum being what it is, anything in in-universe print is true... from a certain point of view.

[@cathode6252]

Maybe they were girls and the Emperor didn't want fraternization. Mortarion is a creeper ya know...

[@patton5283]

No they were all males. Though it has recently been theorized that the Emperor didn't create Female Space Marines as a way to prevent natural births of Space Marines which is less controllable then gene seed.

[@LocalHeretic-ck1kd]

TTS Emperor quote: "No girls allowed. They are yucky."

[@Hy93Ri0n]

Patton528 that's actually a really good reason

[@ravenstrategist1325]

None of that. The primarchs were all male because the emperor DNA is of a male. Since the primarchs were all male, the geneseed implantation only reacts to males. Simple as that.

[@ivanadilovic1622]

also arent they sterile?

[@pedrojoao6790]

So, how do I deal with lasgun wounds

[@johnfraire6931]

Pedro Joao Well, first you make sure the beam has indeed finished being projected. If the wound is not fatal, you apply a clean bandage over the entire burned area, wrapping around the ligament in question and tying firmly. Be sure to pull away any cloth from the burnsite so as it doesn't touch the area, barring any material already seared to the skin. Ignore this rule in toxic areas where skin contact with the air/other would be dangerous in its own right, and instead field dress right over all clothing. If it is fatal, cover the wound just as before, but now instead simply for the moral of the one shot and for the surrounding troops. It is advised that once dead-dead has been reached, you search their pokets for loose power packs and rations. Be avised that flak armor absorbs energy, so it is best to avoid touching the metal parts of the armor. If your field medic isn't too busy, you may ask for his/her assistance- provided you follow this simple-to-follow chart to measure the severity of the incident. Time is a very important resource, private. regimental-standard.com/2017/09/20/so-youve-been-shot-a-flowchart/

[@anothga]

1:57 "I don't need an army. I only need 20 good men."

[@gravityfoxxx8288]

Thus the marines.

[@cesare_1302]

2:20 first time I see a picture of the XI Legion 8:50 and their primarch

[@gandalf1379]

Awesome video. Unleash the Vlka Fenrika!

[@NetMoverSitan]

As one of the children of the 40K equivalent of Bane would put it. "Fenris breeds heroes like a bar breeds drunks -- loud, proud and spoiling for a fight."

[@serteshsardrakal2272]

Death to the wolves. Onwards for the red king of prospero!

[@NetMoverSitan]

...and his spiky tits. (!)

[@halomov1]

*ehem* There will be no dogs of war set loose this day.

[@leif-georgjohansen2287]

I belive one of the two lost primarchs where the original warmaster, and that the cover-up that followed the Ragdan Crusade or the eradication of one of the Legions removed the title from the history books. It would also explain in part why Horus in Dan Abnett's Horus Rising are so uncertan of himself and afraid to fail in his role as warmaster. He is afraid he'll never live up to the expectations or the responsibilites the Imperium gave his ''officially unknown'' predecessor, or afraid he'll (ironically) end up like him if the former warmaster was the one being executed. Horus, while being the First Primarch, not being the ''greatest'' of his brothers and then to be the one to take up the mantle after someone he maybe repected very much and feeling the pressure, makes him an even deeper and better caracter.

[@someguy527]

I wonder if Alpharius or Omegon could secretly be one of the lost primarchs.

[@freerider8094]

someguy527 there not, when alpharius was found, the emperor said he would take control of the XX legion and would soon meet his 17 other brothers, then alpharius asked “arnt there 19 other legions? Wouldn’t I have 19 other brothers” the emperor than stated “that is a story for another time”

[@robkemp598]

I reckon the primarch's married xenos and their father disowned them (and probably wiped out said alien's species for good measure)

[@northumbriabushcraft1208]

That dressing a lasgun wound/rangdan xenocides is from the imperial uplifting primer I have a copy in my bookshelf

[@voxlknight2155]

My guess is that the lost Primarchs sympethized with the Xenos so Big E was like "You, my children, were mistakes"

[@mega-bustershepard5537]

I'd like to think they and their legions are still around in some form, possibly outside of the Milky Way galaxy itself. Most likely they're probably dead.

[@Wormworttea]

I'm still on it that one of them were more hospital like themed. 40k is missing a doc.

[@Filther-13]

Angron kind of was a psychic healer with a shitty ability to absorb others pain if that counts

[@ronaldcarlson1815]

No one mentioned Sigmar the most noble of the lost Primarchs

[@1973Washu]

I suspect that the Emperor found nothing but a pile of bones that was the 11th Primarch because the warp dumped him on an uninhabited and uninhabitable world.

[@williamamely7038]

While some believe that mutation may have been behind the purging of one of the Lost Primarchs, I do believe the Emperor was aware of the flaws (ie, the Flesh Change of the Thousand Sons) of some of the Legions. Also, the Emperor allowed Angron to use the Butcher's nails on his Legionaries and that of Konrad Curze and his Night Lord's Legion's Brutality. I would say it is more likely that either one or both Legions perished in battles against Xenos enemies, or one or both may have questioned the Emperor's motives behind the crusades and either clashed with the Emperor, or deserted and the Imperium may have chosen NOT to pursue them and purged them from the archives. Thankfully, whatever their ultimate fate, players can build their version of the 2nd and 11th and use their own creativity in working their background stories, legion names, color schemes to make 30k and 40k games even more entertaining and challenging.

[@owenbevt3]

Yer the mutation theory dons't make a lot of sence because it if was that bad it would almost certainly have shown to some extent during the creation of the legion and in that case why continue. Battle losses makes a lot of sence but in that case the purging from records seems a bit harsh, mybe the impirum wouldn't want legions being defeatable to be discussed among the common man but would surely have hurt the moral of the other legions. From the description of there enemy I wonder if it was some kind of technolog induced betrail i.e. they got borged.

[@sethbudziszewski2089]

i would love to read some books about the rangdan xenocides seeing as it was an alien race being more technologically advanced than the crusade era imperium. I mean only the necrons and dark elder were more advanced than the crusade era imperium

[@xenowarsgames3806]

Or the Article to fight the Xenos was written during the xenocide, and the II Primarch was the Warmaster during the manual Article publication, and had died soon after. Maybe at the exact end of the conflict. Leaving Warmaster open till Horus was able to claim it for himself.

[@oditeomnes]

All primarchs accomplished great deeds... except Angron, the emperor's biggest disappointment.

[@Darksmirk1]

I can’t be the only one that wants to know about 2 and 11. I get that maybe it’s there for players to create their own legions; but I find it most create their own based off existing Primarchs. I just have to know more about them. It’s maddening. Great video as always!!

[@foksikfoks1754]

In thousend sons novel Magnus and Mortarion talk about meeting of many primarchs which father has forbidden them to talk. I think it has some connection with thses 2 legions

[@lightningcat82]

As for the line in the Regimental Standard, an easy reason to explain them away is that section recieved a update edit after Horus became Warmaster but before the Heresy. Even at that time messages could take years to cross the galaxy. So a new edition could have been printed with the redacted information as the printing house had not got that information, but had recieved word of the warmaster position.

[@onairwithjarvis]

Best way to deal with lasgun wound. A shit ton of ice

[@100thMkey]

SPF 80 deflects all lasgun strikes

[@blagerthorpnonersense1894]

Clearly it is to shoot it with a bolter.

[@Gormathius]

"Sorry, we accidentally printed the complete history of a military campaign over some pages in your first aid book" Only in 40k.

[@shadogiant]

Maybe the II was the first war master.

[@dansmachine9360]

Maybe the Lost Legions were hidden away in cold storage before the Heresy, and now they're just waiting to bust out like those Primus Marines.

[@jordansuco7895]

Love the work you are doing. I just wish we had more on these lost primarchs and there legions. I read that the when the emperor was asked about the primarchs referring to him as father he stated that he did not see them as such only a tool to be used for the imperium. Even some primarchs may have known this, it would be awesome to see if some how GW can bring them back as reboute guilliman and the other resurgent primarchs.

[@jordansuco7895]

Sorry one more thing....when he emperor of mankind was going to name Horus Warmaster of the Grand Crusade he should have rounded up all the primarchs in one bastion to tell them if not about this project but of his plans that way there shouldn't have been any hard feelings and some understanding. But then we wouldn't have 40k what it is today. Just a thought

[@Intuitivelist]

Thinking those two legions were completely annihilated which was why Big E had to send another two killer legions to finish the job and even then it proved to be difficult

[@ImprovmanZero]

11th will ensure his dreams of an imperium of beastmen

[@Dennis-vh8tz]

My first question is whether II and XI fell together or separately. I've always wondered if one or both of them refused to join the Emperor. It's been established that II did join the Emperor and other Primarchs but we still don't know about XI. Perhaps he refused to join with the Emperor, maybe he was even the Rangan leader. Say II had been sent fetch XI and brought both their legions along assuming II would take up leadership of his legion. But II joined, refused to fight against, or was slain by XI, and the legions either followed II or split into Imperial and Rangan aligned factions with the latter winning.

[@TheProudOne]

Thunderpsyker is not dead! HE LIVES! PRAISE THE EMPRAH!

[@r.m.renfield4541]

When you run a youtube channel as active as Thunderpsycher's there is not a free moment in the day.

[@gruszkaryszard580]

Love that lore theory, it gives me some idea and points how to write the fluff for my lost II Legion :) Cool video too! Could You be that dear and spell the name of that Necron World (with that monolith) [and in which part of galaxy it is] where most likely the II legion went and one day the Emperors Children visited for that gene-seed cache ? Thanks and have a great day!

[@derekdziobek5998]

Hypothesis: a. The lost primarchs were censured and executed by the Space Wolves (as suggested in the timeline). 2. The loyal elements of their legions incorporated into the Ultramarines (as is popularly accepted). d. The disloyal/questionable elements of their legions were sent on a suicide mission/penitent crusade into the Rangdan Xenocides in an attempt to kill off the undesirable portions of the legions in a sort of Imperial version of Istvaan III. Thoughts?

[@rustyshackleford7929]

Derek Dziobek I am a huge believer in a. I think it's been referenced a lot that Leman Russ has and is willing to kill his own brothers.

[@HaqqAttak]

I wonder if they were demoralized by the pointless massive losses they must have faced fighting some aliens that probably didn't matter. Turning on the Imperium and striking out on their own.

[@thirdenvoqation7735]

I thought it was hinted that the Ultramarines ranks was greatly swollen at one point in the Heresy series? I can't remember, been a long time since I read the books. I certainly would think it's a combination of a and b, both as the Wolves was meant to be the Emperor's leash for any renegade Astartes. One of the reasons they are feared in the Imperium, even in the Heresy books the Wolves are spoken about with scorn and fear.

[@illsthaprophet]

The book under the field dressing manual may have been written after Horus was declared Warmaster but be describing events that happened prior to this when the second and eleventh legions were still around.

[@Vampgelus]

The "Hail the Warmaster" part could also mean that one of the two lost primarchs held that title at that time. But that's really stretching it, since it seems unlikely that this could have been purged from history.

[@sanchez1942]

The book Wolfsbane gave some insight to one of the Lost Primarchs, so you can add it to the theories. Thx for the videos

[@rustyshackleford7929]

In the book "Vengeful Spirit" it goes into detail about a plan by Leman Russ to assassinate Horus. The book mentions over and over Leman Russ' "bloodlust for his own brothers". I think that whichever legion was The Purged definitely got Iced by the Wolves.

[@alexwfo1349]

the thought occurs that one of the lost primarchs may have been called "warmaster" that would fit and might go on to explain why the title was given to horus, big E didn't want the 2nd or 11th to be remembered but if they fell due to no fault of their own then he might want to honour them in some small way

[@kingbaldwiniv5409]

Excellent theory question! The mystery of the fates of the 2nd and 11th primarchs is very interesting. Their fates seem to have been linked somehow with the Xenocide, as both were documented to have participated. This seems to agree with the known accounts of the 1st and 6th legions involvements. What I find interesting is how much information is available about the 1st Legion's actions, relatively speaking. There is almost nothing known about what the 6th Legion did during that time. My theory is that the 2nd and 11th were somehow involved in an alignment with the Xenos. At the time of the Xenocide, the 1st Legion was the largest and most experienced of the legions. It was sent primarily against the Xenos with the aid of various titan legions. From "Angels of Caliban", we know that the Emperor made certain psychic safeguards in the 1st Legion according to both Chapter Master Maria Astellan and Zahariel. I suggest that part of the fall of the 2nd and 11th was a sort of psychic subversion of either the legion leadership or the primarchs themselves. The 11th may have been subverted and the 2nd may have turned traitor/sided with the 11th based on the artifacts from the location that Fulgrim mentioned. This would have been why the Emperor sent the Dark Angels and the Vlka Fenryka. The Dark Angels were the largest, most experienced, and most resistant legion to possible subversion. The Wolves maintained their own defenses against such measures. Since Russ was already with the Emperor at the finding of the 2nd, he may have been able to appeal to him in some unique way. Russ already admitted that his sons already had fought against astartes before the Heresy. Russ may have united the loyal forces against the traitor or subverted forces to enact sanction. This could be possible if the subversion were apparent to much of the legion. Since the combat was not as harsh as Prospero or the attack against the Vengeful Spirit, it is consistent that the 2nd and 11th may not have both turned completely. This seems more likely since the two primarchs are not regarded in the same light. As far as their accomplishments, the 2nd seems like the only one of the two that had the time to get much done. They were apparently sent far abroad on particular missions. This seems to indicate that they were smaller, nimbler, and not suited as well to gross, macro conquest. As for the 11th, who knows? This is a great video for getting the imagination flowing and getting questions to start rolling.

[@-Thunder-Warrior-]

"Father, what was Mount Ararat?" "EXPUNGE!"

[@jameswatkins5483]

In one of the Horus heresy novels Dorn and malcador are speaking and they mention the two lost primark's and about the Judgment they had to do against them it's also mentioned again later on with Magnus is talking to one of his brothers and they talked about how the emperor wanted to take a judgment against him like they did the two lost Ones

[@zachrich7359]

A possible explanation for the discrepancy, is that the primer was being written after Ullinor, but the information regarding the II and XI legions had not been properly sealed away yet (Imperial bureaucracy lets things keep going and going) and thus the record survived through sheer ignorance and luck. Also could have been the result of misfiling.

[@Phoenixvigor01]

I personally think the 2 Primarch's went nuts and destroyed themselves, leaving Russ and the space wolves to clean up the mess, killing both their primarchs and what was left of their legions

[@AngelWolf12]

One thing I'll point out from the Leman Russ primarch book, when Russ and the Lion are fighting, Johnson tells Russ the Wulfen will likely get his Legion sanctioned, and that Russ knows first hand Legions can be brought to justice by their fellows. Russ tells the Lion "Speak not of events you know nothing about, boy!" To me this would imply that one of the lost Legions was sanctioned by the Wolves(as implied elsewhere) and that the Dark Angels weren't involved. So this would mean only one of the Lost Legions could have been destroyed by Xenos during campaign, as the Dark Angels were said to be involved in that campaign and its unlikely the Lion would know nothing of a fellow Primarch and Legion being lost in a campaign he fought in.

[@bluebuda8170]

Are the sisters of Silence augmented physically? they fight and kill SM w swords don't they kind half to be? not to mention they look huge in all the art. if Custodes are 8ft they half to be over 6ft

[@TheJarric]

armor has some strenth enhansing features

[@johnfraire6931]

Especially considering power armor's only marginally "not" mecha.

[@ajax2985]

Very cool to hear a few nuggets more of info! I personally wonder now if the use of "Hail the War Master" isn't an error, but a piece of the truth being revealed. It is implied with a conversation between Rogal Dorn and Malcador, that there is a degree of eraser placed even on the minds of the Primarchs. So I wonder, was perhaps the 2nd or 11th in possession of the title, Warmaster, during the Rangdan Xenocide and subsequently lost the title due to some event during or after, like which caused the purging of the legions.

[@smitty4293]

Head Canon Time: The Primarch of the 2nd is Rubinek and the 2nd Legion is the Iron Hearts

[@bigooof2499]

I don't remember where I found out but at a certain point Rogol Dorn spoke a single line to his father or one of the other primarchs about one of the primarchs before the Horus Hersey and by then the 2 primarchs had been purged.

[@morethanjustasloth5528]

"The rank of War-master did not exist then." That's what THEY want you to think.

[@highlandoutsider]

Im so happy that information about the lost primarchs is beginning to drip out, I love mysteries but I hate mysteries lol

[@cyrilscordia9565]

Some dark mention "we can ask ******* (forgot the terms) for help? " and the response is approximatively " no way "

[@AwesomeBlueDie]

just to be certain, that is the Wardens of Light at 2:20, correct? I literally had no clue about them until I saw this awesome wallpaper

[@rustyshackleford7929]

Yo "Hail the Warmaster"?!? Omg I freaked when I saw that! There's no way!